[GWCS]

back to the 40% extra work thing, im currently averaging about 150 quid a day so with another person on board we could make another 60 quid = 210

if i pay 6.50 working a 8 hour day thats 52 quid, without taking into consideration the insurance/ NI/ TAX and these bonuses thats 8 quid extra per day. hardly seems worth it.

technically you should also have your extra insurance to pay for too, public liability,  employers insurance which is mandatory. You should also ensure your employees are fully trained for use with ladders as if there is an accident your insurance may not pay out.

welshwindows what part of wales you from?

[Niall McAllister]

other way to go, don't take anyone on just now. at 17 why not stick with what you have now, max out what you can do just now. get some money under your bed and a couple of years with this round. then expand, put the new boy on your current round, the trust you will have with your customers will safeguard the work as much as it can be safeguarded. then start again on the growth of the next round

[welshwindows]

sticking to what im doing now is pretty much not an option, im maxed out and still hungry for more £££££££! im just unsure of how to take the next step.

it sounds like the only way is to invest in another van and work seperatly,that way instead of earning a turnover of 150 a day it would be 300, after the emploees wages/insurance(national,van,emploers and public liability) surely there would be atleast 30-40quid for my pocket off the employees work???

would me switching to water fed poles mean faster work therefor be able to make that 30-40quid by myself though? and if so what happens when your maxed out on work with wfp?
what im asking is is window cleaning an expandable business???

im from north wales (anglesey area) soon to be nationwide the way im talking tho!!!!!

[Niall McAllister]

wfp will be quicker when you get up to speed. realistically you would be looking at 3 months to 6, to get up to speed and sort your technique, so yes you could increase your income alone.
what is the point of your business, do you have a long term goal.
eg. for me the goal is to spend more time with my family and make sure there is plenty of food on the table. i have a target, the window cleaning is a means to an end.
hope that makes sense.

[welshwindows]

ye its very usefull. i think the point of my business is to eventually make money off other people so that when it does come time to have a family etc il have the time. if that makes sense.

ive found out and proved to some extent that its more than possible to make an awesome living from window cleaning. all im trying to figure out is if theres more money to be made? just cant seem to make it work with my sums

[mlscontractcleaner]

If you're earning enough to need staff then you should be earning enough to be able to afford to invest in WFP. That's the way I would go without doubt. After a little while you'll be working quicker and doing five days trad work in four days giving you a day to fill with yet more work.

Now you just go out and canvass more and more work which would enable you to employ.

My one big bit of advice would be to invest in the largest size tank you can afford when fitting WFP so that it'll hold enough water to let two people work all day. If you have a smaller tank fitted, enough for just you, you'll need to upgrade to employ someone.

[elite mike]

try wfp first before you employ

but i find its best to look after your self and your family

ps  there is a local firm close to me who employ 6 or 8 staff , they are trad only

all of the staff have asked me for a job, as they are so disillusioned   with trad

and there boss, for not looking after them

[welshwindows]

does anyone of you run a business with a fleet of wfp vans?? if so whats the profit made from each employee? thats after all expenses and tax are paid......im talking beer tokens!

[mci services]

ok theres a firm near me that are difficult to compete with but they have around 40 employees doing domestic mostly. the guys rattle through about £20 per hour, each employee gets paid 6 quid an hour and the rest in expences is roughly another 4 quid so thats 10 quid an hour profit per man x40 = £400 an hour

[Window Washers]

cheers sunshine cleaning,im currently looking in to that. im hoping if theres any decent grants then i might be able to move to water fed pole system rather than traditional methods.

mr t what happens when its time to take on a second,third and forth member of staff. surely we dont all work together?

has anyone got any ideas on safeguarding work? i work the domestic market,any of you take out contracts with domestic dwellings?

I would speak to business link, you have your age on your sde there with grants ect.
call them it costs nothing, they come and see you all it costs is our time and you may just learn a thing or 2, staff are a nightmare at times but to earn more you need them 

Good on you by the way I wish I did the same at 17 I would not be working now not that I work that much these days :

[rich fraser]

welsh windows.
i was in practically the same position you are up to 4 months ago. im 23 have a full round and was unsure witch way to go. i ended up buying wfp system rather than employing someone.
 i have now compacted my round down from 5 weeks worth of work to 3. the other two weeks i spend delivering leaflets and advertising. i am now planning on generating enough work to get the wfp working for me full time, then i will get  someone else (proably my dad) to come and operate the system full time for me.
if i pay him £100 a day i will still be making a very good profit out of him. with him doing this i will start a new round that i will work myself. i will then repeat this this system with someone else taking over the new round etc etc.
best of luck

[Sunshine/Cleaning]

I would go and get some professional advice from the CAB or the local business center.
Many on here have no more experience than you do in what is involved in employing.

Good advice but  some have actually employed staff

That may well be true, but the majority on here that have someone work with them do so on a subbing basis which is not strictly correct. Employment means paying PAYE, the employers contribution, holiday pay worked out on an average of the previous 12 weeks, having the necessary employers liability and all the other paperwork that goes with it. Not to say a contract of what is expected from the staff.

Simply getting a lad and paying him £7 ph and thinking your responsibilities have ended there just does not work.

[welshwindows]

thanks lads,all very helpfull honestly. i understand that taking on staff is a bit of a ball ache,but it must be done to build a better future for myself aswell as the company. i take it subbing means sort of employing a self employed lad? therefore he or she would have to sort out their own ball ache stuff?

rich fraser if you were at this sticking point 4 months ago,whats your round like now? have you managed to fill in that 2 weeks youve gained?

stu mac that was very helpfull, 10quid an hour from each staff member far exceeded any of my sums and calculations. wehn you say this firm is hard to compete with is it cos theyre cheap? or because they pretty much cover the whole of your area? i take it they are wfp guys not trad method?

thank you all for your help

[poole bay]

i have just come out of paye and i found if you pay good you get good workers when i was on rubbish money i hated it,  going rate down south 10-15 pound per hour... and your get good guys who do good work reading the posts on how much to pay its funnie when people come out with 6-7 pound per hour   regards carl

[welshwindows]

prices in north wales are quite different to down south im guessing. either that or the emploeyrs only making a couple of quid per hour from each staff member.

the guy ive lined up for the post is a big prop foreward dow our local rugby team so paying in biscuits is certainly unfeesable. nice idea tho ewan!!!!

[Niall McAllister]

sounds like you'll have to move on to the cake pay scale if he's a big lad

[Sean Dyer]

i have just come out of paye and i found if you pay good you get good workers when i was on rubbish money i hated it,  going rate down south 10-15 pound per hour... and your get good guys who do good work reading the posts on how much to pay its funnie when people come out with 6-7 pound per hour   regards carl

depends where you are in the country mate, employed plumbers and sparks up here(north) are lucky to be on 15.00 ph cards in, let alone windys

£7+ is a good rate, and i know companies down south that get good staff at simlar price, nott everyone has a huge mortgage big car crazy outgoings etc, they live within there means and are happy doing so, the govt sets the minimum rate you can legally get workers for, anything above that you are doing well imho

[welshwindows]

id still be interested to hear from any of you that employ staff,how are the figures looking?

i was perfectly happy with my one man band untill i went on holiday and thought this is the life. ever since im like duncan bannatyne,i just want more!!!!!
its official im obsessed!

[welshwindows]

yes on the whole probably averaging about 20quid an hour, how much do rekon i should be taking in then?

[mci services]

i am not knocking your hourly rate mate sometimes i do more but on the whole i am probably the same as you. if you want cheap staff employ young the minimum wage for a seventeen year old is just 3.51 an hour. in regards to the company round my way they are trad and cheap and do just about every estate in the area. not very well though and i pick up loads of work from them but i get the fussy customers who will not put up with the standards they provide