Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: ftp on September 15, 2009, 07:05:19 pm
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What tools etc do you consider to be good value in the window cleaning trade?
Are carbon poles good value or blooming expensive?
Ro systems good value or an awefull lot of money for a filtering system.
Brushes at close to £40 a go - good value?
Vacuum £600+ just for an idustrial vac - why?
£25 for a wagtail - good value?
£90+ for three membranes
£80 for a bag of resin.
£3000 for a factory fit hot add on?
Do you grumble at the prices when you reorder or do you feel they are normal because it's a trade?
I'll start off by saying carbon poles are worth the money.
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All i`m interested in is things for work that make my working day easier and nothing else price dosen`t come into it really,is this product going to earn me more money quicker make my muscles ache less overall make my life better.If a pole is £200 cheaper but a lot lot harder on my body price isn`t the issue,you get what you pay for in life.
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Imagine this offer-
A free supply of fiber glass poles or £600 per annum for a good carbon pole?
£600 option for me every time!
Which would you guys choose?
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wagtail = anything wagtails worth evry penny , angle arm, bucket clip ,flipper
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£300 option
This isn't an option at the mo' though
So which one of the two?
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Brushes are too expensive.
Hot add on are to expensive
Gutter vacs are all to expensive
Carbon fibre pole are also to expensive
you usually spout off that it doesnt matter what equipment costs it earns you so much more and so on..
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never used a wagtail but my unger trad gear's still going strong since 2004
can't be bad going
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True but I would prefer to pay lessCarbon fibre, winproclean
so would your customers ;D
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never used a wagtail but my unger trad gear's still going strong since 2004
can't be bad going
what the same rubber :o
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3k for a hot add on or nearly 13k from ionic.
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I agree with NWH, but take a much harder line than he does. I bought my van (£8000) when i had thirty customers to make my working day easier. Every resource i have is thrown at making the work easier.
But there are things you haven't considered, systems and branding for instance. I spend a fortune on these.
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What do you mean by branding? Do you mean your company name?
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yes, i like this side of things, you have enough work, i don't. I progressed through my own leaflets, pro leafets, signed van. Some of the things i did were wrong. Slowly, and expensively i have been correcting my mistakes.
I read books about this sort of thing and study things like coke and mcdonalds.When you get it right it makes such a difference. Sometimes people get it right almost by accident (sqeaky's duck) but i have had to work at it.
Just because this is what i strongly believe doesn't make me right. I noticed Dave st ives saying he doesn't believe in advertising. I think dave's a good businessman but we differ on this, my referrals are through the roof and it's not because i am a better window cleaner than anyone else.
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I think Davids in a different bracket to the rest of us. I believe he actively chases his work through tenders etc and gains work through his qualifications and goes for the big commercial stuff. I can see why advertising would be pointless for him. You could have the best branding in the world but without the right credentials you won't get that type of work.
I'm interested to know why your branding is so expensive?
I spent £60 on some signwriting and that's it i think, apart from £30 for some Thompson Local lookalike.
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ref value
my ron thompson zensorflex pole, 20 quid and its 2 years old
now thats value for money ;)
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But how much has it cost you!
Ewan if your doing normal domestic houses forget fishing poles.
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Now i'm agreeing with Ewan.
Yes ftp you are right about dave.
Do you have a strap line ftp?
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But how much has it cost you!
Ewan if your doing normal domestic houses forget fishing poles.
why ? ? ? ?
on 2nd thoughts, i cannot be bothered why
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But how much has it cost you!
about £18 bargain or what ,aay matt
ewan
and no once you have a system, it will not slow you down
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Now i'm agreeing with Ewan.
Yes ftp you are right about dave.
Do you have a strap line ftp?
Strap line? What's that?
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But how much has it cost you!
about £18 bargain or what ,aay matt
ewan
and no once you have a system, it will not slow you down
I take it you mean a system of working with this type of pole, but will a similar system working with a telescopic be quicker?
i have both ewan
and i prefer the mods, except on gutters or facias
then its back to the teles
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No strap line for me.
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Don’t mean to upset you matt, I have never used a fishing pole for window cleaning but I image they would take a little more time to use. So over a good length of time it will end up costing you money in lost revenue.
Will it?
as you have been polite and i dont think you have posted just for a argument
i used to use a telescopic pole, for over 4 years, the first day with the modular was slower, but after the first day i honeslty can say i am quicker, its very easy to use and its so light ( thus less fatigue )
i have my pole in 3 sections
the base section is 6 & 1/2 ft ( ish ) long
the middle section is 6 & 1/2 ft ( ish ) long
the brush end is about 3 ft long ( just right for downstairs )
start house, slot in brush to middle then middle to end ( just slots in, no clamps to undo and then tighten up )
do front upstairs
lower pole and remove brush section
clean downstairs front
walk around side, if any upstairs side windows, put together pole, clean any upstairs on the side, then around and clean upstairs rear
drop down pole and take apart and clean downstairs with short pole
i really done get the idea that its slow, you have no clamps to undo and then tighten back up
it really is easy and quick, but saying that the knockers will allways knock it
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In the end reduced my branding message to a strap line, you know, like the ice cream van that says =often licked, never beaten.
I see you and dave have it down to two words- go away-
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Because a mod pole is lighter its also easier and faster to clean a window which compensates for the slightly longer assembly time, dis- assembly is faster than a telescopic.
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if i could find a way of carrying the sections of my f/pole better than in a bundle under my arm, i could get quicker.
maybe a quiver of some kind like robin hood :D
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hi jeff
good night everyone :)
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if i could find a way of carrying the sections of my f/pole better than in a bundle under my arm, i could get quicker.
maybe a quiver of some kind like robin hood :D
for domestic you only need the 3 sections of pole ( well its 5 sections, but they are glued in pairs )
i just carry the brush section and pull along my cart and then in the other hand the other 2 sections
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if i could find a way of carrying the sections of my f/pole better than in a bundle under my arm, i could get quicker.
maybe a quiver of some kind like robin hood :D
for domestic you only need the 3 sections of pole ( well its 5 sections, but they are glued in pairs )
i just carry the brush section and pull along my cart and then in the other hand the other 2 sections
i just strap the sections to the trolly take and replace when necessary
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this will start you of then ewan 8)
http://www.mullarkeys.co.uk/fishing/poles-and-accessories/carp-and-match-fishing-poles/0/ron-thompson/7389/
definitely goodnight now ;D
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Thanks for taking the time to explain matt, I think I am going to try it myself in the next few weeks.
Pole about £20
Brush £20
Adjustable neck £5
Hose, connector £5
Total (about) £50 for 15ft pole?
i bought the Ron Thompson Gangster from cheshire fishing, £60 plus 6.50 post.
its an 11m pole and i unscrew the angle and brush from my harris and screw onto top sectio of fishing pole. i have the pole hose taped on ready to push into the y connector
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http://www.cheshirefishing.co.uk/shop/rthompson/poles.htm
good for 3 stories
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Matt I wouldn't use a cheap fishing pole as fishing poles are like WFPs the cheap ones are flimsy and only made from fibre glass which is thin.
My fishing pole cost more than my WFP lol £600 for a fishing pole.
why use something that is not designed for that purpose.
We see threads on here calling cowboys and how people dress for work and their methods of cleaning.
One thing that I would of thought would lose custom is looking and acting unprofessional.
We are all businessmen aren't we?
You have to invest in your business for it to make money.
A few moan about how much this costs and how much that costs. Just be glad your not a builder with all the tools they have.
Just be glad your not in another prefession that requires alot more capital and has extremely higher monthly overheads.
I have spent thousands and thousands this year, I don't moan about it as I know I need them for my job.
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its a proven pole though is the zensorflex, and the gangster is strong,but it is carbon
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Fishing poles are designed for fishing, using elastic and nylon line.
you wouldn't use a cricket bat to play tennis would you.
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Matt I wouldn't use a cheap fishing pole as fishing poles are like WFPs the cheap ones are flimsy and only made from fibre glass which is thin.
you say the pole is flimsy and thin, yet mine has lasted 2 years now, not bad going
why use something that is not designed for that purpose.
because we can, they are really light and work well
We see threads on here calling cowboys and how people dress for work and their methods of cleaning.
yes and they are rubbish, tonight we have seen a post about a 200 GPD being for fish keeping and not suitable for WFP, doesnt mean its right
One thing that I would of thought would lose custom is looking and acting unprofessional.
do your customers care what pole you use ? ? ? ? as mine are only interested in clean windows, next we will have the discussion "you need a van, otherwise people will think you are a cowboy
We are all businessmen aren't we?
i have a business, yes
You have to invest in your business for it to make money.
the cost isnt a issue, show me a pole thats as light as the RT fishing pole , i have used the SLX and its not as light
A few moan about how much this costs and how much that costs. Just be glad your not a builder with all the tools they have.
i have thousands of pounds worth of carpenter / building gear in my garage and loft space, my cordless drill cost me 450 quid, i have a router with a selection of bits that cost more than that, it didnt mean i did a better job that the guy who had a cheap B&D drill and a 40 quid router
replies in red
just because people buy the expensive gear, doesnt make them better businessman, doesnt make the windows cleaner
think outside the box on the odd occasion ;)
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I used one for a year - buggered if i was going to part with £600 just to look professional. ???
A Zensorflex looks very similar to an S2 anyway and so does the Gangsta the only difference to the untrained eye would be the sticker on the base section!
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I used one for a year - buggered if i was going to part with £600 just to look professional. ???
A Zensorflex looks very similar to an S2 anyway and so does the Gangsta the only difference to the untrained eye would be the sticker on the base section!
you forgot it doesnt glitter and shine in the sun ;)
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How many customers have you lost Matt who say "I'm not having you clean my windows because that pole looks unprofessional"?
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How many customers have you lost Matt who say "I'm not having you clean my windows because that pole looks unprofessional"?
funny enough, none
they are only interested in clean windows and a person who is honest and will not rob them blind
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Matt I wouldn't use a cheap fishing pole as fishing poles are like WFPs the cheap ones are flimsy and only made from fibre glass which is thin.
you say the pole is flimsy and thin, yet mine has lasted 2 years now, not bad going
why use something that is not designed for that purpose.
because we can, they are really light and work well
We see threads on here calling cowboys and how people dress for work and their methods of cleaning.
yes and they are rubbish, tonight we have seen a post about a 200 GPD being for fish keeping and not suitable for WFP, doesnt mean its right
One thing that I would of thought would lose custom is looking and acting unprofessional.
do your customers care what pole you use ? ? ? ? as mine are only interested in clean windows, next we will have the discussion "you need a van, otherwise people will think you are a cowboy
We are all businessmen aren't we?
i have a business, yes
You have to invest in your business for it to make money.
the cost isnt a issue, show me a pole thats as light as the RT fishing pole , i have used the SLX and its not as light
A few moan about how much this costs and how much that costs. Just be glad your not a builder with all the tools they have.
i have thousands of pounds worth of carpenter / building gear in my garage and loft space, my cordless drill cost me 450 quid, i have a router with a selection of bits that cost more than that, it didnt mean i did a better job that the guy who had a cheap B&D drill and a 40 quid router
replies in red
just because people buy the expensive gear, doesnt make them better businessman, doesnt make the windows cleaner
think outside the box on the odd occasion ;)
I wasn't having a go at anyone Matt, just stating my opinions.
I understand where your coming from though, I have beaten numerous anglers in matches who have thousand pounds worth of poles etc.
I just think image is a big thing in business. reputation is another.
Matt
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Matt I wouldn't use a cheap fishing pole as fishing poles are like WFPs the cheap ones are flimsy and only made from fibre glass which is thin.
you say the pole is flimsy and thin, yet mine has lasted 2 years now, not bad going
why use something that is not designed for that purpose.
because we can, they are really light and work well
We see threads on here calling cowboys and how people dress for work and their methods of cleaning.
yes and they are rubbish, tonight we have seen a post about a 200 GPD being for fish keeping and not suitable for WFP, doesnt mean its right
One thing that I would of thought would lose custom is looking and acting unprofessional.
do your customers care what pole you use ? ? ? ? as mine are only interested in clean windows, next we will have the discussion "you need a van, otherwise people will think you are a cowboy
We are all businessmen aren't we?
i have a business, yes
You have to invest in your business for it to make money.
the cost isnt a issue, show me a pole thats as light as the RT fishing pole , i have used the SLX and its not as light
A few moan about how much this costs and how much that costs. Just be glad your not a builder with all the tools they have.
i have thousands of pounds worth of carpenter / building gear in my garage and loft space, my cordless drill cost me 450 quid, i have a router with a selection of bits that cost more than that, it didnt mean i did a better job that the guy who had a cheap B&D drill and a 40 quid router
replies in red
just because people buy the expensive gear, doesnt make them better businessman, doesnt make the windows cleaner
think outside the box on the odd occasion ;)
I wasn't having a go at anyone Matt, just stating my opinions.
I understand where your coming from though, I have beaten numerous anglers in matches who have thousand pounds worth of poles etc.
I just think image is a big thing in business. reputation is another.
Matt
your post was putting down the fishing pole and its users, you mentioned " unprofessional " which i do not agree with
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When I started wfp I bought a trolley from Peter Fogwill and it came with an Unger aluminium telescopic pole with sections to take it to about 40FT. It was incredibly heavy and I used the first three sections (which were quite light but long) for most of my work. The twistloc clamps hurt my hands after prolonged use and after about a year a fellow window cleaner/franchiser recommended a modular carbon fibre pole which on reflection was probably a "fishing pole" with reinforced ends. It cost me £300 and allowed me to go to 35ft. I used a golf bag with legs to carry it around.
I think I paid well over the odds and learned a lesson - but as I don't know what it was I don't really know. But ... it was incredibly light and my hand pain went away. I was faster than with my unger telescopic and for the next two years I cut it and glued it when it broke, scavenged pole sections when offered them by a "fishing" custy and it was quicker than the Unger.
But although the joints never broke, the mid sections sometimes did and it became obvious that I needed to replace it after about two years.
I had tried one of those cheap g/f orange tele's which seemed to stick and scuff and get bits in my hand but which was light up to about 15ft. It fell apart and I discarded it.
The SLX has done it for me - I found it heavy compared with my fishing pole and so simply took away the two biggest (and heaviest) sections for most of my work (although they can easily be slipped on as can the extra g/f modular piece) and at 20ft it feels no heavier than my carbon fishing pole for the same length. (I know it must be as it has thicker sections plus clamps, but as the fishing pole has been discarded I can't quantify it.) Perhaps Alex's brush weight compensates over my previous vikan?
Where the SLX scores for me over a modular is this:-
No breakages. Easy clamps - especially the very latest; incredibly light clamps needing the tiniest of bite. When in a tight space doing an upstairs window (Say on the side of a semi in a narrow passage next to a bush or a fence) the modular couldn't be adjusted for length and would bang against obstacles.
No carry bag needed, no need to sometimes juggle poles, hose and carrybag over awkward sections.
No sticking together and (once asking custy to help me free it!) finding it almost impossible to unlock.
However the fishing pole is perfectly usable but I honestly beleive that I earn an extra £25, all other things being equal in a day due to less faffing, less tired (not weight but extra walking to get bits together) and general confidence to close windows and work fast and hard in the knowledge that it isn't going to snap.
I do however still use the top section and brush of the fishing pole (3ft as per matts) on one long run of downstairs commercial as that is incredibly light. (On a house it isn't worth changing over poles for downstairs IMO)
And... if I were to go to a two reel set up with my wife or daughter helping then I would see occasions where I would say go and clean the front door with the fishing pole top end while I do the tops and then you do the bottoms behind me while I reel in and start on the next house.
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i just carry the brush section and pull along my cart and then in the other hand the other 2 sections
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Like this?
(http://data5.blog.de/media/728/3603728_db0927198c_m.jpeg)
(http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/00-app1/winclean2.jpg)
I haven't seen one in years!
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i just carry the brush section and pull along my cart and then in the other hand the other 2 sections
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Like this?
(http://data5.blog.de/media/728/3603728_db0927198c_m.jpeg)
(http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/00-app1/winclean2.jpg)
I haven't seen one in years!
::) ::) aye just like that
no its a sack truck with pump box and barrel on
but i guess it'll be the same in some peoples eyes