Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: psbruce on August 16, 2009, 12:07:01 pm
-
Just seen the TSR 35 WFP trolley advertsided on eBay seems cheap at £280 ish. Just wondered if anyone had tried it or used it and if they were any good.
-
We sell them for £195.00 + Vat = £224.25 but have sold out they are due to be back in stock again mid September.
-
where trolley systems are concerned in my opinion the pure freedom trolley wins hands down best bit of kit i have bought
personally i would save some more pennies up or be on the look out for a good second hand one
-
where trolley systems are concerned in my opinion the pure freedom trolley wins hands down best bit of kit i have bought
personally i would save some more pennies up or be on the look out for a good second hand one
so what other trolleys have you had ?
-
its called doing your research before you part with your hard earned cash
however i have owned a omnitrolley and a aquatech trolley FYI
Also the ones one ebay were riddled with problems if you search back on previous topics
I believe Andrew McCann used to sell them but stopped selling them due to problems with water getting into the gubbins when filling up cheap made chinese stuff normally is poor
there were some retaillers COMPLETELY overhauling the seals and doing a proper job on water proofing the circuit boards and bits if somebody can confirm this
-
yes i can :'(
they have modified these trollys now and are not bad value for your money :)
get one from omnipole 8) good price
if you have a look at what ionics are selling them at,
they are taking the p@ss >:(
-
so you wouldn't recommend the Ionics one ? as Ive heard they are a really good trolley
-
which only cost £35 ?
-
I am about to buy one of these as they look to represent good value for money, @ £280, IMO.
I would be interested to hear of any others in the same price range though, as when I rang Friday to buy over the phone, the guy told me to buy on Ebay! Not impressed!
I try and avoid internet transactions as much as possible, so I didn't complete the purchase!
-
is this the trolley off beechcroftdiving on ebay ? ? ?
interesting bit on the ebay ad
I have had to change the picture of the front of the trolley to a catalogue picture as my photo had a name on that another seller objected to despite the fact that I have been selling them longer. I can take the competition though but obviously some can't.
Opening an account and buying as someone else only means I relist it and I shall get my fees refunded when you dont pay Fred Ghost of Scam Street. If you dislike my methods then stop ripping people off
i wonder who is is on about ? ? ? ?
-
These trolleys are brilliant been using mine for nearly a year when i bought mine it was £190 from ebay if i bought another one i would buy from Omnipole as you would get a 1 year warranty and they are about £100 cheaper than the one from ebay.
-
sack truck
bit of welding
pump box
battery box
under 100 quid
-
sack truck
bit of welding
pump box
battery box
under 100 quid
Have you forgoton the tank, pump.battery, on/off switch ;D
-
sack truck
bit of welding
pump box
battery box
under 100 quid
Have you forgotton the tank, pump.battery, on/off switch ;D
i am not sure if you are having a joke glyn
but just incase
tank = 25 L barrel
the pump and battery will be in the boxs
-
Not being funny Mat, but where can you get all the parts that you would need to build a pump box for under £100.
-
i am not sure if you are having a joke glyn
but just incase
tank = 25 L barrel
the pump and battery will be in the boxs
Window cleaning pump either flojet or shurflo approx £85.00 - £120.00
33 amp hour battery approx £45.00 - £55.00
sack truck lets say £35.00
bit of welding are you suggesting using a professional firm? in which case I cannot see them doing anything under £30.00
pump box £20.00
battery box £20.00
waterproof On/off switch £4.00
Battery connection terminals £5.00
heavy cable let's say £4.00
Using the lowest price pumps and battery this would be £248.00
And on top of that you will also require a battery charger - minimum cost approx £20.00
then lets look at how much time it takes you to construct it or are you not going to consider any labour charge for loss of earnings during the working day?
If its a hobby then you dont need to price for labour, but if you are making it during a working day then you must price in the loss of income at say £30.00 - £40.00 an hour
-
i am not sure if you are having a joke glyn
but just incase
tank = 25 L barrel
the pump and battery will be in the boxs
Window cleaning pump either flojet or shurflo approx £85.00 - £120.00
33 amp hour battery approx £45.00 - £55.00
sack truck lets say £35.00
bit of welding are you suggesting using a professional firm? in which case I cannot see them doing anything under £30.00
pump box £20.00
battery box £20.00
waterproof On/off switch £4.00
Battery connection terminals £5.00
heavy cable let's say £4.00
Using the lowest price pumps and battery this would be £248.00
And on top of that you will also require a battery charger - minimum cost approx £20.00
then lets look at how much time it takes you to construct it or are you not going to consider any labour charge for loss of earnings during the working day?
If its a hobby then you dont need to price for labour, but if you are making it during a working day then you must price in the loss of income at say £30.00 - £40.00 an hour
and then lets see how long it lasts compared to one of these cheap chinese collanders ;D
-
We have sold approx 200 TSR 35 trollies which we adapted in our own workshops.
In all we probably had half a dozen with problems to the tanks which we changed under warranty, initially we had problems with the five speed controlers on some machines we changed these under warrenty and improved the waterproofing to the rear control panels to all the units we sold whilst also replacing the hose with our own hose and hozelock type fittings.
Ther new consignment being shipped has been adapted to meet our own specification.
We have had only one where their was a problem with the trolley which on examination appeard to have fallen out the back of a vehicle.
-
purefreedom trolley all the the way had 1 for 18 mths now no probs, In my opinion 35lts is to heavy to be hauling around , the pf troley is o f far better build quality and will most probably far outlast the tsr 35 , i use mine all day 4 days a week
-
35 litres is a doddle to push about also the extra 10 litres makes a big difference and when we start talking about £600+ for a trolley now thats a rip off.
-
i am not sure if you are having a joke glyn
but just incase
tank = 25 L barrel
the pump and battery will be in the boxs
Window cleaning pump either flojet or shurflo approx £85.00 - £120.00 my pumpcost me 40 quid and is still going 3 years on
33 amp hour battery approx £45.00 - £55.00
we know they are much cheaper
sack truck lets say £35.00 mine was 22 quid
bit of welding are you suggesting using a professional firm? in which case I cannot see them doing anything under £30.00 upto 30 quid, though i would go for 20
pump box £20.00 12
battery box £20.00 not sure as i have nevr used 1, not really needed
waterproof On/off switch £4.00 2.40
Battery connection terminals £5.00 3.00 on ebay for a pack of 10 croc clips
heavy cable let's say £4.00 i got some for me van wednesday, 2.10
Using the lowest price pumps and battery this would be £248.00
And on top of that you will also require a battery charger - minimum cost approx £20.00
then lets look at how much time it takes you to construct it or are you not going to consider any labour charge for loss of earnings during the working day?
do it in the evening
If its a hobby then you dont need to price for labour, but if you are making it during a working day then you must price in the loss of income at say £30.00 - £40.00 an hour
as above, in the evening
-
That's over a £140 matt. :D
I've just had a look over at Omnipoles trolley range. I'm pretty shocked about the prices they charge for trolleys like that. Quite simple amazing. Dearest one is £949.00(!!)
Or a simple Omnitrolley classic, £575.00!
I do think Glyn gets an unfair hard time here on the forums, but certain things (prise wise) do very much puzzle me.
-
(http://www.omnipole.com/omnitrolley%20125%20DI%20side%20view_small1.jpg)
Tim you are talking about our 125 litre trolley the cost includes everything that is found on a van mount system
-
I would go with Glyns everytime, I'm currently waiting for the new batch to be delivered. I'm presently using the WCW backpack and can do maximum 3 2 bed semi's with it, the obvious advantage of Glyns trolley IS the 35l capacity. Anyone who has used a backpack knows what its like humping a 25l barrel in each hand, so I would guess the 35l on a trolley would'nt be a problem. Personally I would say hats off to glynn and Omnipole for the pricing and spec of this trolley. Credit where its due. ;)
-
(http://www.omnipole.com/omnitrolley%20125%20DI%20side%20view_small1.jpg)
Tim you are talking about our 125 litre trolley the cost includes everything that is found on a van mount system
Including RO or just a DI canister? If so the BOM works out at 2/6th at the very most, that's what shocks me. I know you are trying to make money, but it's a fine line between making a good profit and the you know what. I'm just shocked to see a price like that on something that cost relatively little to make.
-
That's over a £140 matt. :D
i make it 111.50 excluding the battery ( thats inc 30 quid for the welding ) so i guess it would be 140 quid, but thats still 100 quid cheaper
the thing with a sack truck is you have the space under the barrel to put a small car battery, pop along to a local industrial estate and ask around the garages, you will soon find a garage who will be glad for you to take them ( as they pay to have them collected ) you sometimes get a dud that doesnt hold its charge 1 bit, BUT 4 out of 5 times you strike lucky ( just take a few from the garage )
even if you wanted to buy a small car battery, 44 amp, you will pick 1 up for 30 quid ( and i wonder how long the battery on the chinese trolley will last, so i bet you will be looking for anew battery soon enough anyways )
lets face facts, this chinese import trolley is not going to be built with the best parts at least when you build your own, you know how it works and you know the sack truck will last
-
a sack truck, yeah thats gonna look really pro to customers. NOT.
-
a sack truck, yeah thats gonna look really pro to customers. NOT.
::) ::) here we go AGAIN
-
I quite liked Peter Fogwill's 25/50L trolley when I had mine. The frame holds one or two std 25L barrels.
-
I quite liked Peter Fogwill's 25/50L trolley when I had mine. The frame holds one or two std 25L barrels.
i still have mine up my mums shed, i normally put the battery where the 2nd barrel would go
worked well for a long long time
though i found the sack truck is easier to use, its designed for exactly what we want, moving a weight around with ease
-
if your no good at diy and you want a cheap trolly
the tsr is the one to go for
if you get it from omnipole you will get the best price
and good after sales
and no i have no connection with glyn or omnipole
-
I quite liked Peter Fogwill's 25/50L trolley when I had mine. The frame holds one or two std 25L barrels.
i still have mine up my mums shed, i normally put the battery where the 2nd barrel would go
worked well for a long long time
though i found the sack truck is easier to use, its designed for exactly what we want, moving a weight around with ease
I had a 25L barrel in one section and carried my 16L backpack in the other section (after widening it with a carjack! ;D).
I distinctly remember a few school headteachers, a facilites mgr for a huge car manufacturer and a warden for a block of flats saying: "You can't use that it's not professional enough - and nor's your 12 year old estate car!" Not. ::)
-
I quite liked Peter Fogwill's 25/50L trolley when I had mine. The frame holds one or two std 25L barrels.
i still have mine up my mums shed, i normally put the battery where the 2nd barrel would go
worked well for a long long time
though i found the sack truck is easier to use, its designed for exactly what we want, moving a weight around with ease
I distinctly remember a few school headteachers, a facilites mgr for a huge car manufacturer and a warden for a block of flats saying: "You can't use that it's not professional enough - and nor's your 12 year old estate car!" Not. ::)
;D ;D ;D
-
Matt
You are not compairing like for like with your pricing
You say you bought a pump for £40.00 obviously this isnt one designed by shurflo flojet or any other manufacturer specifically for window cleaning and as such you would invalidate the warranty as the manufacturers do not warranty their standard pumps for window cleaning usage due to the wear and tear involved in this task.
Secoundly you advocate the use of either 2nd hand car battery or a new car battery as you will be well aware these are not designed for operating pumps as the plates are thinner and not designed to be used all day just for short bursts of high power to turn the flywheel, so are much cheaper to purchasse than deep cycle bateries.
Are you suggesting that wfp suppliers should be using the above componants mearly to save costs.
-
Matt
You are not compairing like for like with your pricing
You say you bought a pump for £40.00 obviously this isnt one designed by shurflo flojet or any other manufacturer specifically for window cleaning and as such you would invalidate the warranty as the manufacturers do not warranty their standard pumps for window cleaning usage due to the wear and tear involved in this task.
Secoundly you advocate the use of either 2nd hand car battery or a new car battery as you will be well aware these are not designed for operating pumps as the plates are thinner and not designed to be used all day just for short bursts of high power to turn the flywheel, so are much cheaper to purchasse than deep cycle bateries.
Are you suggesting that wfp suppliers should be using the above componants mearly to save costs.
no glyn, i am giving different options, sharing a bit of info to others, giving others the knowledge that you can do it a different way ( you know, just as i did all them years ago )
my pump is a small pump, its not branded, but 3 years on, have i been lucky, i guess i have, though to be honest, we all know some1 who has had a flojet / shureflow that have failed after 15 months
i know about leisure batteries, ive owned 1 ( i am on many campervan / motorhome forums, where they are essential ) a cheap car battery for 30 quid will last the same time as the small batteries that are put in trolleys ( higher amp, thus not so discharged during a long day, as we know if you hammer a battery and it drops below a certain charge, it doesnt do the life of the battery much good )
for me, a 2nd hand car battery which lasts me 6 - 12 months for free works very well, when it dies, it gets changed ( now if you dont fancy asking at your local garage, just buy a new battery for 30 quid ) i like the idea of using 2nd had batteries, as its far greener, its recycling as it is s.posed to be ;) its really not about the money ( though i am sure the knocker will say " your too much of a cheapskate to spend 30 quid ) i recycle my plastic, my cardboard and glass and metal, so why should i send a battery to the tip that will be shipped to india to be stripped by some poor scavenger child ? ? ? ?
this will be your Q for the line, well if wfp suppliers dont make money, they will not be able to spend money on R&D, thus DIY'er will have nothing to copy
-
if wfp suppliers dont make money, they will not be able to spend money on R&D, thus DIY'er will have nothing to copy
:)
-
if wfp suppliers dont make money, they will not be able to spend money on R&D, thus DIY'er will have nothing to copy
:)
its like the groundhog day, didnt we have this discussion 6 years ago ;)
-
matt, serious question:
Is window cleaning a business to you, I mean is it your main means of income, or is it more of a hobby?
-
matt, serious question:
Is window cleaning a business to you, I mean is it your main means of income, or is it more of a hobby?
it is a main income yes
its a very good income to me aswell, dont mistake the lack of spending on me being poor
-
it is a main income yes
I think you just answered my question perfectly.
-
thanks matt .its good to have guys like u on this forum .the advice i recieved on this one topic .just shows what can b done with good advice .
-
it is a main income yes
I think you just answered my question perfectly.
so may i ask what point you are trying to make?
-
snobs at it again ::) ::)
-
whos the snob?
-
did i say names, no, Ive been involved on a few threads of late and it comes across if you don't have a big shinny van with atop of the range system your not doing it right or your not professional, an if someone suggest anything different or diy wfp it is just slated to the ground, you cant say this ain't going on, i even basically got called a cowboy on one thread when i was just trying to show it can be done another way, i even went to the trouble of posting some pics, an what for just to get put down and called a cowboy, i would say there is some snobbery going on, you all say you don't look down your nose at others , you must be live in a bubble or something, you know who you are, shame really as there is some helpful chaps on here willing to see both sides, its no surprise why people are not posting as much, then you have the wind up merchants, now saying that i don't mind a good wind up here and there, but not all the time, myself i see people for what they are and will take it with a pinch of salt to a point, but when others or new people come on here it no wonder they put off, now i have a low post count but been a member for quite a while i just try to pick what i post. well that's said time for a cuppa.
-
Matt
With all said and done, do you not believe £195.00 for a factory built trolley system that has been fully tested in my workshops is good value for money?
-
Matt
With all said and done, do you not believe £195.00 for a factory built trolley system that has been fully tested in my workshops is good value for money?
I do think that's good value for money. A Shurflo backpack is more and offers less. Good job. :)
-
£195 for a trolley thats going to make you Thousands of pounds a year is nothing it wouldnt bother me if i had to pay that a year for a trolley i do carpet cleaning to my last machine cost me nearly £3000 so that puts it into some kind of perspective.
-
I have a tsr35 used as a van mount hooked up to a 600l tank but can still be used as a trolly the only think is the handle is a bit low apart from that i am very happy with it.
(http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu156/robkav/wfp008.jpg)
would like an in van charger any ideas?
-
did i say names, no, Ive been involved on a few threads of late and it comes across if you don't have a big shinny van with atop of the range system your not doing it right or your not professional, an if someone suggest anything different or diy wfp it is just slated to the ground, you cant say this ain't going on, i even basically got called a cowboy on one thread when i was just trying to show it can be done another way, i even went to the trouble of posting some pics, an what for just to get put down and called a cowboy, i would say there is some snobbery going on, you all say you don't look down your nose at others , you must be live in a bubble or something, you know who you are, shame really as there is some helpful chaps on here willing to see both sides, its no surprise why people are not posting as much, then you have the wind up merchants, now saying that i don't mind a good wind up here and there, but not all the time, myself i see people for what they are and will take it with a pinch of salt to a point, but when others or new people come on here it no wonder they put off, now i have a low post count but been a member for quite a while i just try to pick what i post. well that's said time for a cuppa.
Sory S.W.C, the cowboy remark was in jest ....... that's why I put the smilies at the end. If it makes you feel any better I also work out of a car, a astra estate as I said in an earlier post. No offence was meant, :-[
-
fare play cheers,
-
What size tank is that in your van is it baffled?
-
650 unbafulled
-
650 unbaffled and only strapped down against a wooden bulkhead
if this van is a rocking dont come knocking ;D ;D ;D
-
Two straps into chassis bolts
Have used a friends van with 1000l ibc without straps :o
-
would like an in van charger any ideas?
You can run a power supply from your cigar lighter socket.
-
would i just croc clip to battery or is their anywhere i can get a plug from?
-
look for split relay on flea bay, that will do the trick you should find it in caravan parts or car parts, i used one on my old astra van, before that i use to have a solar pannel that trickle charged my battery, that also work ok , but split relay is the better option also quite cheap.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/items/__split+relay_W0QQ_dmdZ2?rvr_id=&crlp=2884512309_228459_228460&UA=WXF%3F&GUID=e601106b1220a0aad4e1dd11fe75f855&agid=280119877&MT_ID=11&keyword=split+relay&ff4=228459_228460
-
We have had only one where their was a problem with the trolley which on examination appeard to have fallen out the back of a vehicle.
Hmmmmm!
Back of a lorry job?
Only kidding, couldn't resist!
-
Matt
With all said and done, do you not believe £195.00 for a factory built trolley system that has been fully tested in my workshops is good value for money?
Ok I will have one!
I will email you my order now.
edit,
You have mail!
-
Matt
With all said and done, do you not believe £195.00 for a factory built trolley system that has been fully tested in my workshops is good value for money?
what else would be needed to use this system ? Or does this include every thing to get you started ?
I was looking at the pure freedom trolley system today, but £820 seems steep ???
Ps I'm a newbie looking to take the plunge and start a w/c round
-
You would need a pole and the pure water to fill the trolly up with.
-
You would need a pole and the pure water to fill the trolly up with.
still a masive differance between the 2 price wise, is the PF system superior or just hugely over priced ???
-
I think the p/f is a very versatile as the pump box can be used as a van mount and its easy to swop barrells but it was out of my price bracket so the tsr was the one for me, have a look on page three of this thread and you can see pic's of mine which now doubles as a van mount for less than £300 all in its still not finished yet but i can clean with it.
-
Matt
With all said and done, do you not believe £195.00 for a factory built trolley system that has been fully tested in my workshops is good value for money?
sorry i missed this
good value for money for some i guess ( those who cannot or do not want to build a system )
its a great start and much better value for money than something like this
(http://www.omnipole.com/omnitrolley%20with%20di2.jpg)
:P
your price on the TSR is very similar to some of the backpack prices, thus make its good value for money
i remember when i first start the DIY quest ( and was laughed at by many, and told not to bother, now look at the companies who have sprouted up making a sack truck design cart with a built in barrel / space for barrel ) you said you could make a " sack truck with pump and sell it very cheaply, but it wouldnt include your customer service " i said go on then, it might fill a void in the market, looks like this cheapo Chinese trolley does just that
-
its a great start and much better value for money than something like this
The cost to produce the original Omnitrolley is vast.
Just to have the molds made for the tank was many thousands .
The frame / chassis /axel is all hand made of 1/4" steel and then galvinised, many versions were tested by us again costing thousands in prototypes which we tested to virtual destruction.
They trolley houses a 33amp hour deep cycle batter and a 60 or 100 psi Flojet pump in a sculptured recess spade fuses and a very neat charging socket is incorporated as is a return to tank bi-pass which eliminates the need for an electronic flow controler every componant part has been tried and tested over years of production and each trolley is tested several times before being supplied to customers.
As you will know Matt we have been selling these for 10 years and ones of that age pop up for sale on ebay and are often traded between window cleaners so if a long life trolley with years of proof of withstanding the rigours of all types of window cleaning is needed - then the Classic Omnitrolley is the choice.
-
Would that 33ah battery fit the tsr?
Would you be able to supply the plug that goe's into the tsr? or know of somewhere that does? as i want to be able to chager on the move just for peace of mind
-
its a great start and much better value for money than something like this
The cost to produce the original Omnitrolley is vast.
Just to have the molds made for the tank was many thousands .
The frame / chassis /axel is all hand made of 1/4" steel and then galvinised, many versions were tested by us again costing thousands in prototypes which we tested to virtual destruction.
They trolley houses a 33amp hour deep cycle batter and a 60 or 100 psi Flojet pump in a sculptured recess spade fuses and a very neat charging socket is incorporated as is a return to tank bi-pass which eliminates the need for an electronic flow controler every componant part has been tried and tested over years of production and each trolley is tested several times before being supplied to customers.
As you will know Matt we have been selling these for 10 years and ones of that age pop up for sale on ebay and are often traded between window cleaners so if a long life trolley with years of proof of withstanding the rigours of all types of window cleaning is needed - then the Classic Omnitrolley is the choice.
i guess you didnt spot the :P after the pic
i was only having a joke
-
Insert Quote
Would that 33ah battery fit the tsr?
No sorry their is not the space to hold a battery that size.
The TSR 80 psi pump only draws just over 2 amps an hour and the battery it comes with is a 17 amp hour so it will supply a minimum of 8 hours of actual work between recharges.
Most shurflo and Flojet pumps need approx 8 amps an hour to operate them that is why a larger battery is needed, even so it is rare for the classic to not last a full days work
-
Its never gone flat but i'am to lazy to bring it inside to charge it and the misses wont let me run a cable out the front window as she thinks she's posh all of a sudden.
-
Glyn
as it only used 2 amps an hour, you could fit a small solar panel and it will allways be charged ( i am sure you could fit it in the workshop for a small add-on price )
any1 else
as the pump only uses 2 amps an hour, fit a 2 amp solar panel ( they are small enough ) and you will never run out of power, it will even charge if you leave it in the van with a window after you finish work
green is the future folks
-
Good idea i could mount one on roof of the van how much are they?
-
Good idea i could mount one on roof of the van how much are they?
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=78944.0
-
Thanks Matt
I have tried some panels out a few years ago but at that time they didnt seem to be very efficient. I am sure the latest models are more reliable, got me thinking about other applications.
Glyn
-
Thanks Matt
I have tried some panels out a few years ago but at that time they didnt seem to be very efficient. I am sure the latest models are more reliable, got me thinking about other applications.
Glyn
solar panels have moved on a fair bit in the last few years, even the cheapo type from china are turning out good power ( ive spent a bit of time researching them )
-
is this a good starter trolley, and how does it compare to others you discussed?
-
Yes its a very good starter system and by far cheapest off the shelf option.
-
Yes its a very good starter system and by far cheapest off the shelf option.
just prepare your self for problems if you get a bad one ::) :'(
-
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=79535.0
It would help if I showed the trolley I was talking about......doh.
-
to much money
-
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=79535.0
It would help if I showed the trolley I was talking about......doh.
Thats way to dear In my own opinion for a second hand system you could buy a brand new pure freedom trolley and RO setup and pole etc for £850 ish brand new (other trolleys are available) ;D