Clean It Up

UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Griffus on May 02, 2009, 12:48:09 am

Title: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Griffus on May 02, 2009, 12:48:09 am
This is a very late post from me as I have just returned home following a fantastic Indain Meal at a local Indian Restaurant.

The reason that I am now posting rather than getting off to bed is that whilst there I decided to be a little bit cheeky and offer to clean their carpets.

As it happens they do want their carpets cleaning in the next week or so and have agreed to me cleaning them.

I brought home a small off-cut and did the usual burn test. I did this on the backing also and it turns out to be Belgian Wilton (no doubt at all).

OK, so I have now read all existing posts on this subject. The following is evident: -

          1) Bonnet of LM clean is best
         
          2) HWE is very risky

I do not want to refuse this job as it will turn out into a regular clean with the potential for lots more work as a result.

I can bonnet mop but the customer wants something with a bit more deep cleaning capability.

I have been looking at purchasing a Flexi-5. I believe this would be ideal for this job and would impress the customer.

What are your thoughts?

Would bonnet be better than 'dry'?

Thanks in advance for your help and advice.

Now I've got that off my mind I'm off to bed  :)





Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Tony Gill Carpet Smart on May 02, 2009, 06:39:43 am
Indian resteraunt you will need HWE check it is fitted tight on grippers as long as you don't overwet you should not have a problem get your air movers on while you are still cleaning to dry as fast as poss.

CHEERS TONY
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Mike Halliday on May 02, 2009, 08:00:18 am
I've HWE lots of B/W never had a problem, but I know what I'm doing.

bonnets will give a slight improvement and the flexi-five will be do the same.

a good pre-spray scrubbed in and left to dwell will be the best bet, then rinse with very hot water. use lots of dry passes B/w shrink because the backing gets wet, so the key is to stop the moisture getting through he carpet
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: markpowell on May 02, 2009, 09:22:55 am
This is a very late post from me as I have just returned home following a fantastic Indain Meal at a local Indian Restaurant.

The reason that I am now posting rather than getting off to bed is that whilst there I decided to be a little bit cheeky and offer to clean their carpets.

As it happens they do want their carpets cleaning in the next week or so and have agreed to me cleaning them.

I brought home a small off-cut and did the usual burn test. I did this on the backing also and it turns out to be Belgian Wilton (no doubt at all).

OK, so I have now read all existing posts on this subject. The following is evident: -

          1) Bonnet of LM clean is best
         
          2) HWE is very risky

I do not want to refuse this job as it will turn out into a regular clean with the potential for lots more work as a result.

I can bonnet mop but the customer wants something with a bit more deep cleaning capability.

I have been looking at purchasing a Flexi-5. I believe this would be ideal for this job and would impress the customer.

What are your thoughts?

Would bonnet be better than 'dry'?

Thanks in advance for your help and advice.

Now I've got that off my mind I'm off to bed  :)







Ian,
Have you done a float test?
As Mike says there is no probs cleaning BW, you have prob cleaned one before now not realising what it was!
Mark
Mark
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: clinton on May 02, 2009, 01:04:50 pm
You could always tack it down at the edges if you can..
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Griffus on May 02, 2009, 01:23:02 pm
Quote

Ian,
Have you done a float test?
As Mike says there is no probs cleaning BW, you have prob cleaned one before now not realising what it was!
Mark
Mark
Quote

Hi Mark, yep, it floats.

Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Griffus on May 02, 2009, 01:24:27 pm
You could always tack it down at the edges if you can..

Good advice Clinton, thanks.

Do you use regular carpet tacks and tack all around the edge?

Oh, and how far apart?
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Griffus on May 02, 2009, 01:24:59 pm
Cheers guys.

I am a bit worried about this one but the restaurant intend t leave all furniture in place and want me to focus on the traffic lanes which I think will help as there will be a fair bit of area not getting wet.

I think I will approach as follows: -

1)   Lightly pre-spray a small area at a time (max 4 sq m) with Multi-Pro. I will take Traffic Lane and Ultrapac Renovate as back up for heavily soiled areas.

2)   Manually Agitate, as I am still to purchase an Envrodry, Flexi-5 or similar.

3)   Extract at around 70 degrees (top temp on my advance) with F & F Rinse in the tank.

4)   Set a couple of turbo dryers down to speed up the drying.

What do you think?

Is F & F rinse essential with Polyprop?

Would you add a deodoriser as an extra measure?

Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: collins ReVive Stoneworks on May 02, 2009, 02:00:24 pm
Generally they only shrink in  one direction

tack it with good carpet nails a couple feet apart  be careful there are no water pipes underneath the floor especially if its wood happened to me once and i ended up with a nice plumbing bill

and redecorating needless to say they did not use me again. this was a house though with a B/w

often with the filthy grease from the kitchen in these restaurants i still think HWE is the best used with a good pre spray for grease.

still have some old enzyme from prochem somewhere

tried blitz did work but slower than enzymes

good luck P.s check joins in carpet too some times they are not to clever and can open up, put some duck tape over the joins if they are loose



Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: markpowell on May 02, 2009, 02:53:06 pm
Cheers guys.

I am a bit worried about this one but the restaurant intend t leave all furniture in place and want me to focus on the traffic lanes which I think will help as there will be a fair bit of area not getting wet.

I think I will approach as follows: -

1)   Lightly pre-spray a small area at a time (max 4 sq m) with Multi-Pro. I will take Traffic Lane and Ultrapac Renovate as back up for heavily soiled areas.

2)   Manually Agitate, as I am still to purchase an Envrodry, Flexi-5 or similar.

3)   Extract at around 70 degrees (top temp on my advance) with F & F Rinse in the tank.

4)   Set a couple of turbo dryers down to speed up the drying.

What do you think?

Is F & F rinse essential with Polyprop?

Would you add a deodoriser as an extra measure

I would use Powerburst or Champion pre-spray (HOT), mechanical agitation 15 min dwell, then rinse whatever you choose.
If you tack the carpet down to the gripper i normally go every foot, leave the head proud for easy removal, use 1" clout nails
Mark
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Fraser Thom on May 02, 2009, 02:53:52 pm
I've got a BW to do in an Indian restaurant in a couple of weeks and it has 3 joins in it (it's quite a big, square, restaurant).

Do you think the joins will cause a problem?  The carpet seems to be well fitted to the grippers at the edges but I did wonder about the joins.

Fraser
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Doctor Carpet (Ret'd) on May 02, 2009, 02:55:41 pm
I'f you're going to tack it down then tack through furniture foil pads, then you will be able to easily spot you tacks for removal at the end of the job.

Be careful about possible rust marks from the tacks as well.

Roger
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: derek west on May 02, 2009, 04:02:47 pm
what if its laid on concrete base?
how dya tack it down then?
derek
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Dave_Lee on May 02, 2009, 04:09:13 pm
The most important question to ask, in these situations with a BW is "Has it been cleaned before with a wet system." Second question is "Was there any shrinkage." I then explain their characteristic of dimentional instability.
Quite often they have shrunk on previous cleaning but the carpet fitter has managed to get them back on the gripper.
Best to be open and honest with the owners when BW is concerned, personally although I too know how to clean them without problems, I only take them on at the owners risk. This I find,they are willing to do. I can then get on and clean the horrible things.
Dave.
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Simon@arenaclean on May 02, 2009, 04:13:45 pm
Derek, should be held in place with grippers so tack into those.

Ian
I too would use powerburst, it's excellent for this type of work. Fibre and fabric rinse or clearwater rinse to finish to prevent re-soiling.
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Griffus on May 02, 2009, 04:45:27 pm
Thanks to everyone for what as always is some excellent advice.

Carpet has been down 18 months and only been bonnet cleaned as previous contractor wouldn't risk HWE. It has been cleaned this way quarterly. The owner is not really happy with the results being achieved and wants HWE.

I have this booked in for a couple of weeks time so I will revisit this post and let you know how it went. I hope to be back reporting good news :)

Thanks again.

Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: clinton on May 02, 2009, 04:51:27 pm
Rogers right on that and the last one i did was a concrete floor on g rods so tacked itnto them.

The indian resturants are prob the worse as you will just pull so much dirt out ::)
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Fraser Thom on May 02, 2009, 07:06:17 pm
it sounds a great idea tacking the thing down around the edges but nobody seems to be answering my question - what about those big horrible joins down the middle?

How can we prevent them coming apart here?

Fraser
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Joe H on May 02, 2009, 07:20:01 pm
Having never (knowingly() worked on one and by applying logic (which sometimes fails) - tack em down.
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Fraser Thom on May 02, 2009, 07:24:00 pm
Sorry Joe I should have said, it's a concrete floor!!!

Fraser
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: markpowell on May 02, 2009, 07:29:56 pm
Just check the joins are still in tact, if unsure get the custy to sign a disclaimer!
Mark
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Fintan_Coll on May 02, 2009, 09:17:36 pm
All good advice, but remember plenty of drying passes.
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Doctor Carpet (Ret'd) on May 02, 2009, 11:40:24 pm
it sounds a great idea tacking the thing down around the edges but nobody seems to be answering my question - what about those big horrible joins down the middle?

How can we prevent them coming apart here?

Fraser

If they've been properly heat-seamed then there shouldn't be a problem to start with.

When cleaning always clean at an off-set angle when cleaning across a seam.
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: will01 on May 03, 2009, 12:22:13 am
Theres probably some black top around the area "Where the waiters first tread" after coming from the kitchen.

Be sure to tack down this area as it will shrink if you don't. 

Regarding the joins... If unsure just prespray and hwe up until about 6 inches from the join then bonnet the remainder. I like hydramasters' zip dri for this.

Depending on how bad the carpet is around the join it may not come up as well as the rest but you'll have to explain in laymans terms to the owner the reason why.

will
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus) on May 03, 2009, 08:40:40 am
As Roger says, if it's been seamed properly then it will be stronger than the carpet itself. You can stretch away from a correctly seamed join at full force without it splitting it.

Steve
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: garyfindlay on May 03, 2009, 11:55:51 am
Would a wonderwand keep the carpet dryer, thus less risk?
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Dave Preece on May 03, 2009, 02:07:19 pm
A wonder wand will leave carpet drier than a conventional wand would, for sure..that's why they are not cheap lol
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: markpowell on May 03, 2009, 02:20:37 pm
Depends who is on the end of the wand!!
Mark
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: clinton on May 03, 2009, 02:57:18 pm
Mark

V true on that :)

And people think c cleaning is an easy job ;D

Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: derek west on May 03, 2009, 03:18:03 pm
Depends who is on the end of the wand!!
Mark
and whats suckin on the other ;)
derek
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Dave Preece on May 03, 2009, 03:30:01 pm
I agree, carpet cleaning isn't as easy as all that although its getting easier to clean carpets than it is to find them to clean..i  had to do a good deal for the other day on about 200 M of carpet at local Theme park, i should have charged more as when i was finished they said they were ripping it up next year and replacing with hard flooring.so looks like it was just a one off now
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: clinton on May 03, 2009, 05:30:41 pm
Like most large shops and units are now taking there carpets up supose its for h and saftey ???
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Susan Dean (1stclean) on May 06, 2009, 11:18:44 am
i find cleaning these with a rdm it best on full heat running around 550 psi never had any probs what so even
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Griffus on May 06, 2009, 06:43:14 pm
Hi Clinton

Not yet.

I have to fit it in next week, at the minute it looks like Wednesday all being well.

Just in the process of purchasing an Envirodri Gen4 to help with agitation of pre-spray on larger jobs, such as this. I will then also have the option of dry-cleaning for regular maintenance jobs.

Incidentally,  I have cleaned a BW via HWE already. Just didn't realise. This was on a much smaller scale though; just hall stairs and landing on one of my early practice runs and results were good. Looks like the training courses are doing something right!

Looking forward to the challenge of this one and have all my crossable digits crossed!

I'll post when job done to let you know how it went.

Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: clinton on May 06, 2009, 08:36:14 pm
Looks like your doing ok ian..

They dont all go ::)

There was a big batch in the late 90s that were all prone to shrinkage..
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Bob Allen on May 06, 2009, 08:51:22 pm
Dont you just wish you had gone in and eaten your curry and walked away.....instead about all these worries?
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Griffus on May 06, 2009, 11:22:47 pm
Dont you just wish you had gone in and eaten your curry and walked away.....instead about all these worries?

Never  8)

Then again, ask me next week  ;D
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Jim_77 on May 07, 2009, 12:21:55 am
Ian,

You've already have some good advice above.  All I can say is I hope you've quoted a nice price for yourself.  This job will probably take you twice as long as you thought and you'll be exhausted at the end of it - both physically and mentally from the worry of watching those edges!

Good luck ;)

P.S. Getting paid might be the hardest part, don't take any crap off em
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Griffus on May 13, 2009, 11:17:19 pm
Just to confirm that I completed this job today.

Overall it went well. Certainly no shrinkage and the blacktop cleaned away nicely.

One slight niggle; as usual with Polyprop the areas of crushed pile detracted slightly from the overall result.

Thanks again for all the advice, both directly via this post and indirectly via many other posts within this forum.
Title: Re: Belgian Wilton
Post by: Jim_77 on May 14, 2009, 09:41:55 pm
Sounds like you've done it justice Ian :)

For the future, something to lift the pile better might be a worthwhile investment.  It won't make those worn areas disappear, but it'll hopefully improve them and also help out the rest of the cleaning process in the matted down areas.