Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: landy2 on March 22, 2009, 07:02:29 pm
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could anyone one tell me what the average rate is a hour for a employee
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It depends on your market.
Dean
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guessing but i would say about £8
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just starting to learn him
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For window cleaning i would give em 40% of the over all total they earn,so its in their best interest to graft away hard, if your paying em a hourly rate then they will still get the same hourly rate wheather their earning you large amounts or low amounts, no carrot dangling infront of em at all, always always pay em a percent
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The minimum wage was the worst thing that could happen to employers of window cleaners.
Say you've got to pay £5.73 to a guy whos never cleaned before for 40hrs a week?
Its alot out of joe bloggs's cash round who is trying to expand.
Especially how you have to pay holiday pay on top.
Im not being a scrooge.
Ive no problem with paying decent wages as I do pay decent wages.
Im just looking on it as a new employer would.
Its nigh on impossible.
Dean
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just starting to learn him
start at £6 then and up his wages as he improves which will give him an incentive ;D
Stan
Do you employ?
Dean
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The minimum wage was the worst thing that could happen to employers of window cleaners.
Say you've got to pay £5.73 to a guy whos never cleaned before for 40hrs a week?
Its alot out of joe bloggs's cash round who is trying to expand.
Especially how you have to pay holiday pay on top.
Im not being a scrooge.
Ive no problem with paying decent wages as I do pay decent wages.
Im just looking on it as a new employer would.
Its nigh on impossible.
Dean
can you not hire him self employed,no work no pay
Thats not the way forward stan :o :o ;D :P :P
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could do but still how do you work out the hour rate
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For window cleaning i would give em 40% of the over all total they earn,so its in their best interest to graft away hard, if your paying em a hourly rate then they will still get the same hourly rate wheather their earning you large amounts or low amounts, no carrot dangling infront of em at all, always always pay em a percent
40% that’s ridiculous.
£40 for every £100 earned.
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I pay £8.00
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40% equals 80 quid earned for the other guy £120 in your sky rocket for doing absolutly no work,based on him doing £200 a day, everyones a winner in my opinion
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I pay £8.00
Dave
Is that for an experienced cleaner?
Dean
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40% equals 80 quid earned for the other guy £120 in your sky rocket for doing absolutly no work,based on him doing £200 a day, everyones a winner in my opinion
Trippy
Thats like saying for every £1k earned you get £600
Its true but unless you have an excellent quality of work its unreallistic.
Most window cleaners during the current climate are making sure that they have enough to keep themselves going.
Nevermind fixing somebody up with a 21k a year job.
Dean
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could anyone one tell me what the average rate is a hour for a employee
It's £25.00 p/h.
do you have any vacancies? i'm available for immediate start! ;D
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40% equals 80 quid earned for the other guy £120 in your sky rocket for doing absolutly no work,based on him doing £200 a day, everyones a winner in my opinion
Trippy
Thats like saying for every £1k earned you get £600
Its true but unless you have an excellent quality of work its unreallistic. Dean im only saying that this has worked well for me over 10 years ago now when i done windows full time, i wasnt paying out sick pay holiday pay rainy day pay etc, found the other blokes working non stop for their money, and i could sit in the cafe and earn a tenner a hour for eating me breakie, not that i was in the cafe for hours lol
Most window cleaners during the current climate are making sure that they have enough to keep themselves going.
Nevermind fixing somebody up with a 21k a year job.
Dean
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sorry seemed to mess the last quoted post up lol
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Didnt get that mate.
Have you still got steve brooker?
Im a Vale fan :-[ :-[ :-[
Dean
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Didnt get that mate.
Have you still got steve brooker?
Im a Vale fan :-[ :-[ :-[
Dean
brooker has gone to Donny, shame really coz he is a brilliant striker, but has been in the treatment room for the best part of 2 yrs
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Didnt get that mate.
Have you still got steve brooker?
Im a Vale fan :-[ :-[ :-[
Dean
theres not many Vale fans about years ago when Burnley played there in the cup we had to run the gaunlet with Stoke fans trying to batter us ;D ;D
Stoke fans are clowns stan.
I take it you lost against vale?
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Is he the nantwich town manager now?
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http://www.clarets-mad.co.uk/news/loadfeat.asp?cid=ED35&id=340609
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would it not be better to take a young lad on at 17...min wage £3.65 or so..
this way you could be more competive with your rates...to help you grow your business
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would it not be better to take a young lad on at 17...min wage £3.65 or so..
this way you could be more competive with your rates...to help you grow your business
True mate but they then find the booze and let you down,
Its hard work,
Dean
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ive always taken people on self employed, £7.50 an hour if they do downs and i do ups, £8.00 an hour if they do ups as well or instead of me, now ive just switched to wfp i intend to still pay ladder rate as i think its still not easy.
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yes, ive never had more trouble than the young uns, discover booze and ladies, late etc, no work ethic yet. got a crackin guy at mo 40 hrs aweek really helpfull never late, waitin outside my house in morn , butties with him, you dont get that from the young ones, (generally)
i also do pay him for his full 40 hours regardless of weather and not working etc, i find stuff for him to do. when you finally find a good worker you cant mess em around with a days work a days pay scenario, i find anyway.
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what about vat if your reg and then van ins, employee ins employee NI, petrol, vehicle cost, holidays, stationary, uniform ,new equipment ect ect
You wont be left with 60% and it wont be for doing nothing.
Do you employee?
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what about vat if your reg and then van ins, employee ins employee NI, petrol, vehicle cost, holidays, stationary, uniform ,new equipment ect ect
You wont be left with 60% and it wont be for doing nothing.
Do you employee?
Ronnie when i had a full round of work over 10 yrs ago now, bearing in mind ive been in the building trade for those ten yrs and have only gone back into w/c in the last month, i had fellas on self employed terms, i tried out a hourly rate, back then it was £4 per hour, and then tried 40%, i found the percentage worked out far better for all concerned and even gave them the choice of percentage or hourly, they all choosed percentage
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what would happen if you had them on say 40% and say bad weather for example? no pay? im happy with that but more happy now im keeping someone in a job and there happy with a regular fixed income.. or would you pay them a basic rainy day amount or somethin or just encourage them to go nuts on the dry days and work longer?
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you cant have them on self employed un less they use there own vehicle own equipment and have there own work
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own vehicle fine and does do own work as well
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surely about 15000 a year is reasonable for a good window cleaner, 300 per week.... it is only window cleaning they obviously dont expect to be on 30 k a year!! not a slate to wc employees/employers but its the truth. look at any wc job advertised most arent far off min wage!
so long as they do what you expect.. the minimum i would expect from an employee in his own van wfp wouldnt be much less than 1k a week, otherwise why bother with the expense!
i dont employ at the moment have done and struggled, if and when i go for it again i would put them on min wage of 200 pw, and extra 100 for doing work, being on time every day etc
i would like employers to let on how they figure it out though - what profit margin thy get, the costs, what turnover a lad brings, is it better on % or hourly??
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I am a carpet cleaner not a window cleaner but the same principles apply.
You would find it very difficult to persuade the tax man that your person is self employed.
If they drive your van, use your equipment and work under your terms and conditions then they are considered an employee regardless of how you pay them and if caught you would be liable for all the back tax and employer nat. insurance.
The only way someone would be classed as self employed is if they provide the van, all the equipment , all the chemicals , are responsible for rectifying any problems with the work, do not work exclusively for you and invoice you for the work they carry out.
In practice this means you can only sub contract work to a bona fide window cleaner who has their own rounds or directly employ them.
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I have 1 guy at the moment working self employed. I was worried if he should be paye or not so I asked my accountant, they told me as long as I am not his sole source of income he can be classed as a sub contractor. As he occasionaly does work for other people this has worked out fine. If however he only worked for me I supose I should take him on.
I pay £80 a day basic as long as we reach minimum target. If we do less he earns less, if we do nothing he earns nothing, if we earn more he gets a bit more. Its best to be fair other wise you will end up with either no employee or a monkey.
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dont pay an hourly rate, give them a minimum wage basic and the rest is a percentage bonus based on what they actualy turn over each day.
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if you provide them with the majority of there work ie 3 days then he is classed has an employee
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I know, how does everyone get away with self employed lads, who only work for them !!
There is a questionnaire on hmrc.gov.uk that asks "is an employee self employed, or employed"
Usually if you are asking the question in the first place - they are employed, or should be!! In other words the govt wants Ni contributions out of you as well as their tax!!! It asks things like - do they have the right of substitution ie to replace labourer if they cant be present, do they have control over the hours they work, methods used, price charged etc etc in which case they are self employed but also the amount of work they do for you goes towards their actual employment status...
Another way round is to pay them on a commision only contract in which case you could seperate yourself from them easily.. but they would have to be set up with their own equipment as a sole trader filing their own tax return etc
Other way round is they have their own van and rounds, and sub, or they work for a few different lads... bit of a gray area really as it happens alot in practice, and is no doubt helped along by clever accounting, but id always think "what if they get wise to it" id hate to have to back pay NI!! Or be fined!
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seandyer2003 I cant really give you the answers you are looking for, although my partner is an acountant and I am looking to employ before the year is out and she suggest taking them on paye, give them holidays etc and not to go down the route of suby workers.
The deciding point for me, was what is they upship and try and take my custies I have biult up for them. Where as if they are employeed by you, the line isn't quite as thin as with suby workers.
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I think i would do paye personally but with a commision based scheme, ie pay them base rate, sun or snow of lets say £200 or minimum wage is what £5.65 x 35 = 197.75 :) so not much difference!
Then set them a reasonable target and bump there wage up another £100 for getting there , is my thoughts on it ! Then hols etc can be paid at an average of there last 4-8 weeks ie if they arent hitting there target they only get base rate for hols!
But i wouldnt do commision only as they would be tempted to work sloppy and be unhappy when there is no work.... If you employ you do have to make sure they can live especially they have a family and bills to pay...
If i found the right guy when i eventually employ again i would keep sticking his wage up if he was really "cleaning up" :) ie earning way more than i set, maybe that is the kind of guy to put on a good percentage... but they are few and far beween eh
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you cant have them on self employed un less they use there own vehicle own equipment and have there own work
Also correct me if i am wrong but if you are self employed it is illegal for you to only work for one person?
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you cant have them on self employed un less they use there own vehicle own equipment and have there own work
Also correct me if i am wrong but if you are self employed it is illegal for you to only work for one person?
yeah
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It is not illegal to only work for one person and be self employed.
You are not breaking any laws but you are not self employed and should not be paid as such.
HMRC would class you as employed and would go for the easy target which would be the person you have worked for.
They can go back up to 7 years and claim all the tax that should have been paid and the N.I. which would add up to a lot of money and of course they have all the time and money in the world to persue you through the courts.
Is it worth the risk.
Do you fancy losing your house.
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If you want to find the difference between a sub-contractor and an employee, you should have a look here:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/paye/employees/start-leave/status.htm
Judging by some of the posts, I think some of you are employing, rather than sub-contracting.
You've got to be careful! Have a read of the above link. You may find you're employing rather than sub-contracting; and this can leave you open to all sorts of litigation.
I've been given some good advice with regards to this issue, but can't post it now, 'cos I'm in the middle of cooking dinner; but even this 'good advice' was tempered with a 'but it's very thin ice'.
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window fitters,taxi drivers,fascia & guttering fitters , removal out fit, parcel delivery..
this is only some of the ones that i know sub work.. why cant window cleaners do it..
D.H.L even do it........
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window fitters,taxi drivers,fascia & guttering fitters , removal out fit, parcel delivery..
this is only some of the ones that i know sub work.. why cant window cleaners do it..
D.H.L even do it........
interesting post. I would like to know how they get round it to.
this is what i found from a taxi company advertising on the net. surely this ios employed isn't it?
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We are **** largest taxi company leading the way through the 21st century with New Mercedes taxis, the vary latest in mobile GPS booking and despatch and smartly dressed drivers doing mainly corporate work. We offer a wide range of working practises from P.A.Y.E. with holiday and sick pay to self employed with huge potential earnings. As well as family friendly hours for those of you who can’t work evenings or school holidays.
For more information in obtaining your taxi badge or to apply for an information pack call ***
****taxis are currently recruiting for:
* SELF EMPLOYED TAXI DRIVERS*
Earn up to £650 + tips with no over heads whatsoever. ****taxis will provide a new Mercedes, diesel and all work, you take a weekly 40% commission on your earnings.
Taxi Drivers with ****taxis:
Full-Time Drivers
As a full time driver you will be expected to do:
Monday – Friday: AM & PM rush hours 0700-1000 and 1330-1900
Monday – Thursday: One late night up to midnight
Friday Evenings: 1 out of 2
Saturday Evenings – 3 out of 4
The benefit of being a full time driver is that you get to take the vehicle home with you, which means you will not have to come into the office daily to pick up a vehicle. We supply the vehicle, the fuel, the work; you will work on a 40% commission basis with earnings up to £650 per week.
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so how are these getting round it? ???
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Then hols etc can be paid at an average of there last 4-8 weeks ie if they arent hitting there target they only get base rate for hols!
You have to pay them the average of their last 12 weeks pay for their holiday pay. They must have 20 days holiday. This is increasing to 24 or so in April.
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Sorry that came out a bit RED
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the tax man isnt as bad as you think...as long as the guy you self employ is straight..then it shouldnt come back round to you....
i have a little story about the taxman...but it would take to long to write..
end of it is..
taxman says as long as you our fair..we arnt stupid we know how if works..we know what you should be earning..if we think other wise then we will have a look...
this was a conversation with a window cleaner
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Personally, I'm not bothered whether anyone 'employs' or 'sub contracts', but I feel sorry for the guys who employ legitimately ; yet have to compete with guys who 'sub contract'; but are really have 'employees'.
That can't be fair, since the overheads for the latter are far less than the former; yet the returns could be similar.
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Tosh not everyone is as honest as you. Most pay 300 basic with an off the books bonus 100- 150.
The so called self employed would do better than this, so the playing field isn't as uneven as you think.