Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Pole 2 Pole on March 18, 2009, 07:40:10 am
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I cannot help but notice the phenominal rise in estate cars with ladders and points lately. It seems that everyone is going in for a bit of shining since the economic muck hit the fan. But there i was driving along yesterday,funnily enough,behind an ol' K reg estate with some real mickey mouse wfp setup in it. Not a problem,as we all start up somewhere. But i had to laugh when he pulled over to the side to give way to another oncoming estate car with guess what on the roof? ? ? Yep ladders and points. ::)
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Yep! Thats the recession for you. What baffles me is where do they go to find all the beat up old estate cars?
Oh yes and the dress code, trackies and chav caps, very last century.
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yeah i agree, they should all just go on the dole and leave the professionals to do the job....nothing worse than scum like that bringing our trade into disrepute by driving around in old beaten up old bangers and wearing jeans and baseball caps, come to think of it thats where i started 20 odd years ago, but the trade seems to have moved forward since then, so tell them if they want to join our industry then they need to start off with at least a nearly new van and proper equipment, if they cant afford it then tell them to stick with the weekly giro ( seem harsh?) when i read it back it smacks of snobbery and contempt for new starts, i better reword it, but i cant think of the right words, you guys can do it for me 8)
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Actually you do get the other extreme where someone has blown his redundancy on a brand new van and system. I have seen a few of them as well.
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Actually you do get the other extreme where someone has blown his redundancy on a brand new van and system. I have seen a few of them as well.
Now that's the way to do it ;D I don't know why it bugs me really. I aint lost any custys to these newbies. I guess what does bug me is that they're "probably" pocketing 100% of the cash without giving HMRC their cut of the proceeds whilst,yeh....probably claiming all the while. There's alot of "probablys" there, but it's gonna be the case 'arf the time :-X
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I do think new starts should be given a good talking to as regards health & safety/ wok at height/ sensible pricing etc. I don't have a problem with newbies starting up, but many are accidents waiting to happen, and most underprice and de-value the trade.
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Picked up a couple of kosher jobs local to me in the last few days.
The one yesterday asked my about my insurance. It helps immensely when you can say just look at my policy on my website. Those boys you're talking about dont have that.
However, they still annoy the crap out of me too, I think its becasue however dodgy they are they still represent some sort of a threat, albeit a dreadfully small one.
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I do think new starts should be given a good talking to as regards health & safety/ wok at height/ sensible pricing etc. I don't have a problem with newbies starting up, but many are accidents waiting to happen, and most underprice and de-value the trade.
Yeah; stir-frying should be done at ground level, preferably with oven gloves and a fire-extinguisher to hand! ;D
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I do think new starts should be given a good talking to as regards health & safety/ wok at height/ sensible pricing etc. I don't have a problem with newbies starting up, but many are accidents waiting to happen, and most underprice and de-value the trade
We live in a democracy, they can if they wish charge 30p or £100.00 a house - its their choice.
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We live in a democracy, they can if they wish charge 30p or £100.00 a house - its their choice.
well said glyn
just cause some of them charge less it dosnt mean there standard of work is lower in some cases
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Hmm... it could be a good time for me to sell my wooden pointers that have been stuck in storage for a couple of years now. :D
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We live in a democracy, they can if they wish charge 30p or £100.00 a house - its their choice.
well said glyn
just cause some of them charge less it dosnt mean there standard of work is lower in some cases
I just hope your endearing understanding of the newbie don't jump up and bite ya on the arse bud. Too many numpties willing to do a job,just for the sake of earning a couple o bob would be the beginning of our demise.
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Some of these newbies have started up as a way of providing a living for themselves and their families.Yes there are the dole cheats etc etc...but these are also to be found in the times of no recession
A guy spends years at work and the company goes under because of the banks and the government and that guy thinks sod it i am going to go window cleaning and not declare a single penny untill i get myself on my feet...well who can blame him...he has been shafted by the government and the banks...now it is his turn.
It's the lazy ponces who sign on the dole all their lives and do the cash in hand bit that give a bad name to the trade.
On sky news yesterday morning there was a bit about fat lazy buggers claiming untold amounts in benefits because they couldn't be bothered getting off their big fats bums to goto work....if they stopped spending all our tax money on stuffing their faces they would be able to go out and at least look for work....fat buggers and dole scroungers...put em all down.
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My misses is fat :o But she does work............is she exempt? :-\
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Yes she is because she makes the effort to get out there and do it.
Nothing wrong with big woman ;)
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No man..........ya don't understand..........she's BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG ;D
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I Noticed theres been a massive rise in esates and even Space cruisers with points on top.
Now i ask myself the question how many have the correct insurance policy when travelling from job to job on a what is only a Standard Car policy (social & domestic and to a from fixed place of work) ???
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I do think new starts should be given a good talking to as regards health & safety/ wok at height/ sensible pricing etc. I don't have a problem with newbies starting up, but many are accidents waiting to happen, and most underprice and de-value the trade
We live in a democracy, they can if they wish charge 30p or £100.00 a house - its their choice.
That truth isn't in question,... its the fact that they often start out charging less than they can live on because they don't yet understand the costs of running a business. The knock on effect is that established cleaners are asked to drop their prices,.. soon we're all below the poverty line!!!
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Anyone can go out and clean a few windows.
BUT - It takes years to build a decent business. Many will start up and then when they realise its not actually that easy will disappear as quickly as they appeared!
Surely this kind of thing happened in the last recession, and many of us on here are doing OK since then!
Andy
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Actually you do get the other extreme where someone has blown his redundancy on a brand new van and system. I have seen a few of them as well.
they are the most dangerous imho
as the beat up old car with ladders on is happy to earn a few quid BUT in many cases he will not have to work for peanuts ( thus driving down the price ) as he has a bit of redundacy to fall back on for a while till things pick up
the guy who has spent all his redundancy on a flashy system MUST work, he has to earn what he can, he has nothing else left and will do anything to justify his spending of all his money on it
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There must be the work out there for them then . So why not go out and do some canvasing .
I started out with a old estate car
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Actually you do get the other extreme where someone has blown his redundancy on a brand new van and system. I have seen a few of them as well.
they are the most dangerous imho
as the beat up old car with ladders on is happy to earn a few quid BUT in many cases he will not have to work for peanuts ( thus driving down the price ) as he has a bit of redundacy to fall back on for a while till things pick up
the guy who has spent all his redundancy on a flashy system MUST work, he has to earn what he can, he has nothing else left and will do anything to justify his spending of all his money on it
Good post
I think the other way though.
Threat= old car & ladders = undercutter & can do a good job without much practice.
None threat= 15-20k investment in pro-wfp= He HAS to charge good money to cover his investment & will probably make a mess the first year. ;)
Tony
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I'm new to this forum and this lark in general so I don't want to get off on the wrong foot but there does seem a fair amount of snobbery (for want of a better word) among some of you fellas.I recently got laid off and from work and need to support support my family one way or another so somebody suggested window cleaning.Really enjoying it so far and I'm only using an estate car at the moment as a growing business doesn't warrant anything fancier yet.I admit the pricing thing is the trickiest part.I'm sure once a round is established you can afford to pick and choose but when you're just starting out you're keen to get customers and get the ball rolling,which can lead to maybe quoting a price that you're sure the customer will take (i.e under pricing a tad).I'm digressing a bit,but the fact is I bet even the most succesful of you started out with 'humbler' equipment compared with what you use now.Gotta start somewhere!
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I just hope your endearing understanding of the newbie don't jump up and bite ya on the arse bud. Too many numpties willing to do a job,just for the sake of earning a couple o bob would be the beginning of our demise
Your nearly all "newbies" to me! with 32 years in the trade
Why would you think a new window cleaner is an idiot, that doesnt understand business.
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Nope i invested 5k straight off the Bat. If You wanna make a decent living then you gotta try get ahead of the competition. My Views are most estate summer brigade shiners will think nothing of undercutting the more profesional people as there outlays are so much less. Dont get me wrong there old boys round my way who have been doing it for 30 years and aint got vans, but for me appearence is everything if you wanna move to the next levels.
Do you have correct insurance in place to use the family car as a work vehicle????? out of interest
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I just hope your endearing understanding of the newbie don't jump up and bite ya on the arse bud. Too many numpties willing to do a job,just for the sake of earning a couple o bob would be the beginning of our demise
Your nearly all "newbies" to me! with 32 years in the trade
Why would you think a new window cleaner is an idiot, that doesnt understand business.
Your getting old Glyn your even cleaning gutters from the ground these days lol. ;D ;D
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I used a car for years and it did the job when trad but i think these days it looks a bit pikey lol,if you mean business it makes sense to try and look it. ;)
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Nope i invested 5k straight off the Bat. If You wanna make a decent living then you gotta try get ahead of the competition. My Views are most estate summer brigade shiners will think nothing of undercutting the more profesional people as there outlays are so much less. Dont get me wrong there old boys round my way who have been doing it for 30 years and aint got vans, but for me appearence is everything if you wanna move to the next levels.
Do you have correct insurance in place to use the family car as a work vehicle????? out of interest
Well I bet you're in a minority(regarding the big outlay when starting out as a window cleaner).I don't get the mentality to be honest.If somebody is doing a job in which the customer is happy and you're (hopefully) making a living,what difference does an expensive van make?Hopefully the business will grow so I can consider a new van but the estate is fine for my needs at the mo.For the record I would never knowingly undercut another window cleaner.I've not had any customers complain yet,my car is clean and I don't dress like a chav,so what's the big deal?Of course I've got the correct insurance,by the way.
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I'm new to this forum and this lark in general so I don't want to get off on the wrong foot but there does seem a fair amount of snobbery (for want of a better word) among some of you fellas.I recently got laid off and from work and need to support support my family one way or another so somebody suggested window cleaning.Really enjoying it so far and I'm only using an estate car at the moment as a growing business doesn't warrant anything fancier yet.I admit the pricing thing is the trickiest part.I'm sure once a round is established you can afford to pick and choose but when you're just starting out you're keen to get customers and get the ball rolling,which can lead to maybe quoting a price that you're sure the customer will take (i.e under pricing a tad).I'm digressing a bit,but the fact is I bet even the most succesful of you started out with 'humbler' equipment compared with what you use now.Gotta start somewhere!
Well said and if you are SERIOUS about window cleaning for a CAREER then good luck to you... :)
its seeming with posts like this that the days where new window cleaners could ask one of the more ESTABLISHED cleaners for a little helpand coaching are gone the "snobs" should hang there heads in shame
post like this are becoming more and more lately
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I'm new to this forum and this lark in general so I don't want to get off on the wrong foot but there does seem a fair amount of snobbery (for want of a better word) among some of you fellas.I recently got laid off and from work and need to support support my family one way or another so somebody suggested window cleaning.Really enjoying it so far and I'm only using an estate car at the moment as a growing business doesn't warrant anything fancier yet.I admit the pricing thing is the trickiest part.I'm sure once a round is established you can afford to pick and choose but when you're just starting out you're keen to get customers and get the ball rolling,which can lead to maybe quoting a price that you're sure the customer will take (i.e under pricing a tad).I'm digressing a bit,but the fact is I bet even the most succesful of you started out with 'humbler' equipment compared with what you use now.Gotta start somewhere!
Well said and if you are SERIOUS about window cleaning for a CAREER then good luck to you... :)
its seeming with posts like this that the days where new window cleaners could ask one of the more ESTABLISHED cleaners for a little helpand coaching are gone the "snobs" should hang there heads in shame
post like this are becoming more and more lately
I would help anyone, One of the first cars I started with was a pug 106 ;D when having bars fitted to roof at the pug garage I was told I was the first person to have them fitted and they did not know how to do them :o, before that I i had a shed, then estate car, then small van then another estate x 3 then relay swb and also got transit swb, next is a mbw un sure what one yet.
Not everyone has money to start with, people are scared of this forum and to be honest I cant blame them, talking about prices how ever new or old you are to window cleaning is madness some business things are private. I could not be a snob, but I was bought up on a council estate and left school when I was 14 to start work with no qualifications. ;D I am proud of it awsell ;)
I had no help when I started, but like helping other I am also proud of that.
Ian
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I cannot help but notice the phenominal rise in estate cars with ladders and points lately. It seems that everyone is going in for a bit of shining since the economic muck hit the fan. But there i was driving along yesterday,funnily enough,behind an ol' K reg estate with some real mickey mouse wfp setup in it. Not a problem,as we all start up somewhere. But i had to laugh when he pulled over to the side to give way to another oncoming estate car with guess what on the roof? ? ? Yep ladders and points. ::)
Pretty much how I started really many years ago. I didn't even have an estate or points. I had a 10 year old hatchback and a ladder I borrowed from an out of trade plumber. I did stretch to buying a bucket, some scrims, and washing up liquid though. Oh yes. And I was signing on the dole at first - perfectly legally and with the job centre's full knowledge. That soon went as my income climbed but those extra few pounds were very helpful in the early weeks.
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I'm new to this forum and this lark in general so I don't want to get off on the wrong foot but there does seem a fair amount of snobbery (for want of a better word) among some of you fellas.I recently got laid off and from work and need to support support my family one way or another so somebody suggested window cleaning.Really enjoying it so far and I'm only using an estate car at the moment as a growing business doesn't warrant anything fancier yet.I admit the pricing thing is the trickiest part.I'm sure once a round is established you can afford to pick and choose but when you're just starting out you're keen to get customers and get the ball rolling,which can lead to maybe quoting a price that you're sure the customer will take (i.e under pricing a tad).I'm digressing a bit,but the fact is I bet even the most succesful of you started out with 'humbler' equipment compared with what you use now.Gotta start somewhere!
Well said and if you are SERIOUS about window cleaning for a CAREER then good luck to you... :)
its seeming with posts like this that the days where new window cleaners could ask one of the more ESTABLISHED cleaners for a little helpand coaching are gone the "snobs" should hang there heads in shame
post like this are becoming more and more lately
I would help anyone, One of the first cars I started with was a pug 106 ;D when having bars fitted to roof at the pug garage I was told I was the first person to have them fitted and they did not know how to do them :o, before that I i had a shed, then estate car, then small van then another estate x 3 then relay swb and also got transit swb, next is a mbw un sure what one yet.
Not everyone has money to start with, people are scared of this forum and to be honest I cant blame them, talking about prices who ever new or old you are to window cleaning is madness some business things are private. I could not be a snob, but I was bought up on a council estate and left school when I was 14 to start work with no qualifications. ;D I am proud of it awsell ;)
good to hear
we all started out somwhere and i would help and give advice to any new starter as long as they startd there business correctly with insurances and such
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My postie has been a wc for 30 yrs. Does his post then out on the windows until 6pm and he is trad who works out of a battered old escort estate. Has no intention of going wfp for some reason. He has a nice round as well, most of the estate i live on, 70% of the shops in my town centre and a local school. He does not see the point in buying a van either, each to their own eh.
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i started with reno 5 van magnetic signs on the side ten years down the road
sometimes i feel like im alan sugar but still drop a boll/// with pricing point is
evryone has a right to aspire to owning a fiat doblo go for it buona fortuna
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I'm new to this forum and this lark in general so I don't want to get off on the wrong foot but there does seem a fair amount of snobbery (for want of a better word) among some of you fellas.I recently got laid off and from work and need to support support my family one way or another so somebody suggested window cleaning.Really enjoying it so far and I'm only using an estate car at the moment as a growing business doesn't warrant anything fancier yet.I admit the pricing thing is the trickiest part.I'm sure once a round is established you can afford to pick and choose but when you're just starting out you're keen to get customers and get the ball rolling,which can lead to maybe quoting a price that you're sure the customer will take (i.e under pricing a tad).I'm digressing a bit,but the fact is I bet even the most succesful of you started out with 'humbler' equipment compared with what you use now.Gotta start somewhere!
well done mate and good luck i for one admire people like yourself who just get on with it ,you will get criticism by some on here but stick at it and prove them wrong if you do a good job on all your work and are polite to your customers then im sure you will do ok your customers dont care what you drive as long as their windows are clean and they know they can trust you.
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well done mate and good luck i for one admire people like yourself who just get on with it ,you will get criticism by some on here but stick at it and prove them wrong if you do a good job on all your work and are polite to your customers then im sure you will do ok your customers dont care what you drive as long as their windows are clean and they know they can trust you.
Well said trevor. I think you've got the 3 most important things there. Do a good job, be polite and be trustworthy. Life can be simple if you don't over complicate it ;)
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I must be the only one going backwards, I started off with a very tidy Nissan Sunny, and now I use an M reg escort van.
I could go out and buy a new one cash if I wanted, but the one I have is reliable and cheap to run.
With a long established round, who do you need to impress? Proven honesty and reliability over the years
Is what gets me new work.
You can buy a new van, but you can't buy a good reputation.
What the new guys are doing now is exactly the same as I did all those years ago, making themselves a job.
There is so much rubbish talked about undercutting. If I was pricing a job, and I Knew I could do it in a day, I would be happy to quote £150/ £160, even if I knew that the other guy was charging £200.
That's good business as far as I'm concerned, I keep my costs down, and have no repayments to make on a van or anything else.
And if we were all on the ball building our businesses, how would all the newbies find the work?
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why worry about all the new boys theres enough work for us all,the more the merrier ;D ;D
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totally agree dai, i always try and charge a sensible price and cover what i want to make a day, a bit more sometimes incase bad weather etc, and why fix somethin thats not broken.
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This thread is about unprofessional’s in cars and how anybody can just hijack this trade as and when it suits them, not how people started or whether people think it’s right or wrong if a professional decides to use a car or van.
It's not how you get there mate, it's what you do when you arrive.
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This thread is about unprofessional’s in cars and how anybody can just hijack this trade as and when it suits them, not how people started or whether people think it’s right or wrong if a professional decides to use a car or van.
That'll be us told then ;)
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This thread is about unprofessional’s in cars and how anybody can just hijack this trade as and when it suits them, not how people started or whether people think it’s right or wrong if a professional decides to use a car or van.
It's not how you get there mate, it's what you do when you arrive.
to the most part your right, but it does make a difference getting new work out and about, looking smart ect ect, only reason I say this is because new customers tell me it
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its not neccesarily hyjacking the trade, the trade is there and customers choose who they want, by me a guy carrys fold up ladders in an old pram base as he walks around, his ladders dont reach the windows so he reaches the rest of the way with a pole and does a horrific job, (hes broken his arm twice) point is no matter how pro i look i wont get his customers EVER because he offers something i dont - an hour or more chattin to the lonely oldies smokin fAgs! point is customers choose who they want and why, so with sensible prices and a good job no ones a threat, theyre just there. and it happens to lots of semi skilled trades, painters and decorators, gardeners etc are also easy trades to jump into.
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Well said.
I think the message I take from this is to look after my existing customers.
In general if you do a good job, you keep customers, even if someone knocks or drops in a leaflet. I have had several customer give me leaflets they have been given, or that have been dropped thru their letterbox. Haven't a lost a single residential customer to a newbie yet.
And just to get on your nerves Ewan I started off driving a citreon AX 2 door, with a roofrack, and some second hand ladders, but went WFP in a few months as I had planned. ;)
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i got married 7 months ago and stayed on honeymoon for an extra 5 weeks! all my work was covered except residential windows, after coming back after 6 weeks we had not lost a single customer, lots had got us presents and extra cash, now theyre buying baby clothes for us, my point- after 7 years the rappor is so good they become like friends, yes a pain when collectin as chattin can go on a bit but will we ever lose these customers to a newbie undercutting.......... i doubt it ;) :) :) :) :) :)
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i got married 7 months ago and stayed on honeymoon for an extra 5 weeks! now theyre buying baby clothes for us, ;
D
You didn't waste your time then
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tryin for more tips!!
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i havnt read through all these posts ......but, one thing i know is that its all about being reliable... the ones that are tooo cheap , let custies down after a few months, that does me a favour, .....people dont mind paying a bit extra for a reliable wc.... :) most of these start ups will be too cheap , and find it hard in bad weather, and realise its not easy sailing....!!!
theres more to it than just cleaning windows :D 8)
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Whats wrong with wearing jeans, t shirts, and baseball caps, and using a bashed up old estate?
Most custies on some estates would expect nothing less.
Turn up in a new van wearing a blue boiler suit and theyll think your pest control.
In my experience some custies wanna see failure, and get the right hump if it looks like your doing too well in life by meerly cleaning windows. So let them perceive it.
So horses for courses, if im doing the well off's, or offices, out comes the decent motor, and professional image becomes everything. But they get the same job.
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Pride! in your appearance.
If your customers expect you to look like a pikey you need to change your customers or get some self-respect.
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Pride! in your appearance.
If your customers expect you to look like a pikey you need to change your customers or get some self-respect.
I have total pride in my appearance mate, and have self respect.
You wear a blue boiler suit dont you!!
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I must be the only one going backwards, I started off with a very tidy Nissan Sunny, and now I use an M reg escort van.
I could go out and buy a new one cash if I wanted, but the one I have is reliable and cheap to run.
With a long established round, who do you need to impress? Proven honesty and reliability over the years
Is what gets me new work.
You can buy a new van, but you can't buy a good reputation.
funny enough i was chatting to a window cleaner this week and we both said the same thing
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i got married 7 months ago and stayed on honeymoon for an extra 5 weeks! all my work was covered except residential windows, after coming back after 6 weeks we had not lost a single customer, lots had got us presents and extra cash, now theyre buying baby clothes for us, my point- after 7 years the rappor is so good they become like friends, yes a pain when collectin as chattin can go on a bit but will we ever lose these customers to a newbie undercutting.......... i doubt it ;) :) :) :) :) :)
also discussed this week ;) ;)
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Same goes for quality of work too. You guys who think you are brilliant and do the best job in the world with your £30,000 outfits won't prise the work away from one of the locals in my area. He's crap and drives a battered old yellow van - might be a miestro or something. They all moan about him using the same bucket of dirty water for the whole street and the smears but none of them will sack him. He's the family window cleaner and well up in his sixties, doubt if he's worried about newbies somehow. :)
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There are literally dozens starting up in my area (Southampton),maybe something to do with Fords closing down,however,one nipper in his green golf who i always see, stopped me in Tescos as i was enjoying my prawn salad ha ha and asked me why i never acknowledge him,so i told him i thought he was a painter and decorator! ,
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I drive an estate car, but its a nice silver one. Looks good when the silver ladders are on the top it all matches.
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i got married 7 months ago and stayed on honeymoon for an extra 5 weeks! all my work was covered except residential windows, after coming back after 6 weeks we had not lost a single customer, lots had got us presents and extra cash, now theyre buying baby clothes for us, my point- after 7 years the rappor is so good they become like friends, yes a pain when collectin as chattin can go on a bit but will we ever lose these customers to a newbie undercutting.......... i doubt it ;) :) :) :) :) :)
also discussed this week ;) ;)
who discussed me gettin married matt???!!!!!
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interesting...... not sure i agree entirely. if a customer wants the unpro wc then they'l have them if theyre cheesed off with result then they call us and we look like shining knights, if theyre happy with a bad job and paying less for it, who cares?? get work elswhere
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what?
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it doesnt help people posting on here, hourly rate polls, when someone asks can a decent living be earned.... people actually answer in bold detail....
I mean, most websites of window cleaners , have links to forums..... so the customers and the general public will view our posts too !!
so its not suprising really is it....
some people only have themselves to blame. ;)
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A customer wants the best job for the least money. Same as us with our purchases. Surely us professionals are skilled & efficient enough to to out quality a newbie?
I charge £7.50 for 3 beds & can clear £200 a day regularly. The quad makes me quick but constantly seeking faster better ways to clean means you're always ahead. ( anybody tried wfp & Hoover for inside jobs?)
Kevin.
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i used to have ladders on a Fiat Panda,loved that car,plenty of leg room ;D
I did a pug 106 way back I was first to have roof bars on one at the time said buy the main dealer lol
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i used to have ladders on a Fiat Panda,loved that car,plenty of leg room ;D
me too! back in 1995 ;D great on fuel ;D
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don't judge a book by its cover, we're not all newbies, I still use an estate car after years of window cleaning, I don't want to have to run two vehicles and do I really need a van to carry a few scrims??
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I think the problem is that a lot of people turn to window cleaning as a stopgap because the building trade has gone flat or they have been laid off.
The problem is they don't view it as a permanent thing, its just a way of getting by so they don't really care about what they do or how they go about getting customers.
Building a round takes time so the obvious way to fast track the process is to undercut.
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you can fast track biulding a round by undercutting, but not a good round. I think if you want to do anything fast it has to be canvassers and leaflet dropping, as much and as often as you can afford.
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don't judge a book by its cover, we're not all newbies, I still use an estate car after years of window cleaning, I don't want to have to run two vehicles and do I really need a van to carry a few scrims??
I know loads of wc's that use cars and have been doing it longer than me, it is what makes your business work that counts all people are different and all have different goals in life, i went from cars to vans for a reason, was good business sence for me to do it.