Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: richywilts on March 01, 2009, 09:02:15 pm
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do you get any sort of certification to go in portfolio if you join the master guild????
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you do but is there any substance behind it.
This might be highly controversial to say but.
Unless it was govt recognised i wouldnt show, it could do more harm than good.
Runs and ducks for cover
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you do but is there any substance behind it.
This might be highly controversial to say but.
Unless it was govt recognised i wouldnt show, it could do more harm than good.
Runs and ducks for cover
Run Dave run
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All members get a "Membership certificate".
If you're a big outfit then I agree with Dave,.. but for smaller outfits/newbies/1 man bands every bit helps when it comes to conveying a more professional image of your company.
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Nat
Why dont you go down the route of government recognition, You are half way there.
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dave,
you say it could do more harm than good,
what harm could come from it?
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Nat
Why dont you go down the route of government recognition, You are half way there.
It has been mentioned, and won't be ruled out for the future, but at the moment its a case of only taking on what we can handle. When the membership is larger, and the pool of resources & expertise within the membership is ready fro the challenge, then we may well give it a go.
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Vision Tech
It looks like you are trying to impress with something that has no substance which costs a tenner.
The question you will be asked "what did you have to do to get the cert"
It smacks of trying to pull the wool over the eyes.
Sorry to say that to Nat and the boys as they are nice people, but that is the truth of the matter.
Building owners are not daft, they know the certs to look for and which have substance behind them.
They either have to be bona-fida government recognised trade associations or something that has a quality process attached to have any credibility.
I am going for some L.A and NHS work, they want to know about my accreditations , do you think a guild cert will impress.
It is a bit like rolling up your sleeve and showing off your tattoo, only for them to say
"Thats not a tatoo it is one of them you lick and rub on with the paper still showing"
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you dont like us do you dave :'(
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That may be true for the big contracts,.. I'd never dispute that, but you're in a place with your business Dave that is at least 5 years in my future, and I think the vast majority of forum members are closer to my end of the scale than yours, for the time being at least!
The calibre of jobs that I aim for do value professionalism and the health and safety side of my presentations, but they don't "rub the tattoo" so to speak.
Despite the fact that being a Guild member doesn't rank much next to being a member of a recognised trade association, It is a step in the right direction and I do believe it makes a real difference, both in the members attitude towards their business, and the way they are perceived by their clients. It has won me jobs, and boosts my confidence a little when going to do a quote!
The Guild requires that its members are insured,... not a huge step, but a first step that many in the industry might not take without encouragement.
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i am just watching richard branson on the telly, he wasnt always a multi billionaire by the way, he started off with 1 small shop, and now look at him.....interesting 8)
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I think the guild is a good thing, it is an independent organization (for now) which promotes the bettering of window cleaning standards and professionalism among its members, all such organization had to start from the bottom like the fed, they weren't huge govt backed bodies overnight, and none of them would of got anywhere without the quality of their members and the support of them, if all of us thought it was a bit of a laugh it would never get anywhere, but if the guild members treat it seriously then it will be eventually get recognized and treated as such, personally i think the FED is far over priced and i hope the guild reaches a similar status and stays priced fairly, im sure overheads will increase pushing membership up, but not astronomically, so two thumbs up from me :)
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Sean,.. did you get my e-mail Re: your membership approval??
I got a failure msg,.. tried sending again?
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I am not saying i dont like the guild, I just wouldnt present the cert to a potential client.
A few points.
Safecontractor,
It is up to you to tell the client about it, most people i hhave told about it have heard of it, it is govt recognised in the fact if you apply for Chas it will pre qualify you.
The FED
Overpriced, not a chance for £100 or so it is tremendous value, far cheaper than any other trade.
Nat
Very professional answer i am impressed, if you carry on in that manner i believe you will take the Guild forward.
One thing i would say for £12 you will struggle, some day someone is going to want some money for running things and £12 wont go very far at all, its ok now with a few members, how you going to cope with 500 members at £12 a head, it will cost more than that just in administration alone, no one is going to do it for free forever.
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Sean,.. did you get my e-mail Re: your membership approval??
I got a failure msg,.. tried sending again?
Did you email me at seandyer2003@yahoo.co.uk??
My website emails are down at the minute!
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Our aim is to keep the basic fee at £12 per annum for as long as humanly possible.
There have been discussions about introducing "Extras" for members, like personalised ID badges, workwear, featured website listings, marketing materials, logos etc. which would all be optional, but would boost the guild coffers a little, while not costing a penny to those who don't want/need them.
We've also operated a policy of cost minimisation from the outset. All Guild info, news etc is posted on a forum,.. why waste funds printing letters and paying postage?! Even the member certs are provided electronically to save postage costs! We don't have office space or phone lines to pay for,.. and we won't until membership numbers are high enough to warrant & afford it. Its a case of biting off only what we can chew and listening to how the members want to move the Guild forward,... this is what I believe will make the Guild a success in the long term.
If it can be made to work without increasing the member fee, then it will always be preferred.
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I am not saying i dont like the guild, I just wouldnt present the cert to a potential client.
A few points.
Safecontractor,
It is up to you to tell the client about it, most people i hhave told about it have heard of it, it is govt recognised in the fact if you apply for Chas it will pre qualify you.
The FED
Overpriced, not a chance for £100 or so it is tremendous value, far cheaper than any other trade.
Nat
Very professional answer i am impressed, if you carry on in that manner i believe you will take the Guild forward.
One thing i would say for £12 you will struggle, some day someone is going to want some money for running things and £12 wont go very far at all, its ok now with a few members, how you going to cope with 500 members at £12 a head, it will cost more than that just in administration alone, no one is going to do it for free forever.
Perhaps the fed is a reasonable price compared to other trade bodies but i dont see why its so essential to have a membership id much rather spend the money elsewhere,
And as i said earlier, the fed may be the top for window cleaning memberships now, but they had to start somewhere, and someone who does the same thing a bit more reasonably may steal their crown :)
These are the benefits offered but the fed on there website, nothing substantial that id feel yeah thats really worth my hard earned cash!!!
* Representation of a government recognised Trade Association
* Business investment to an independently run organisation
* Help in preparing Risk Assessments/Method Statements & Policy Statements
* Free 24 hour Legal Advice Line
* Discounted Window Cleaning Equipment
* 25% discount with Website Wizard
* Discounted personalised work wear
* Free quarterly Trade Magazine
* Corporate advertising in Yellow Pages
* Use of Logo to highlight professionalism & dedication
* IOSH accredited Health & Safety Awareness courses- including Ladder & WFP training
* Annual Trade Shows & Window Cleaning Competition
* Group Accident financial assistance for members and their employees
* Personalised identity card and certificate
* Area membership Lists available on request to Councils/Agencies etc.,
* NVQ's in Cleaning Building interiors, Windows & facade surfaces
* Our nominated insurance brokers can assist and help with Liability Insurance
* Affiliations with the following organisations; British Cleaning Council (BCC), Cleaning and Support Services Association (CSSA), Asset Skills & close working relations with the HSE's Cleaning Industry Liaison Group.
Alot of what they offer is discounts, ie you are still subject to pay for stuff, nothing is really free that is
Maybe its worth discussing?
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Our aim is to keep the basic fee at £12 per annum for as long as humanly possible.
There have been discussions about introducing "Extras" for members, like personalised ID badges, workwear, featured website listings, marketing materials, logos etc. which would all be optional, but would boost the guild coffers a little, while not costing a penny to those who don't want/need them.
We've also operated a policy of cost minimisation from the outset. All Guild info, news etc is posted on a forum,.. why waste funds printing letters and paying postage?! Even the member certs are provided electronically to save postage costs! We don't have office space or phone lines to pay for,.. and we won't until membership numbers are high enough to warrant & afford it. Its a case of biting off only what we can chew and listening to how the members want to move the Guild forward,... this is what I believe will make the Guild a success in the long term.
If it can be made to work without increasing the member fee, then it will always be preferred.
compare this to the above, i know where id rather spend my money and try and promote!!
But i appreciate dave that as an established business tendering for big jobs now, you need the edge on your competitors however possible, but still if everyone promotes the guild for now, you may be at the front of something special to come.....
Im behind it anyway, i think its well thought out, otherwise i wouldnt be behind it, and i wish it every success, and i will do what i can in its interests...
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Sean,.. did you get my e-mail Re: your membership approval??
I got a failure msg,.. tried sending again?
Did you email me at seandyer2003@yahoo.co.uk??
My website emails are down at the minute!
Yep,.. thats the one I tried!
PM'd you on the other forum,...
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I passed the safe contractor first time as all my health and safety was spot on
35 documents from health and safety to manual handling, even noise in the workplace
what did they do for me -- nothing
who knew them--no one
thought i would just add this piece of info
thomas james
Can I ask Thomas and James and Dave Morris a couple of Q's about Safecontractor?
Is the Safe Contractor only for Businesses with employees?
Or would it suit a sole trader?
Is it expensive?
Thanks,
Jay
No sole traders can get it and its about £130 for the 1st year then about £110 each year after that.
Chris
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um.... why do guild members have last year on their wallpaper badge and not 2009?
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um.... why do guild members have last year on their wallpaper badge and not 2009?
LOL,.. too lazy to update our avatars!!
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here you go
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rutilus fenestra eternus
Red Windows Forever?
Sorry, my latin is not very good..
But what the....? ???
It says 'dont drive a red caddy'
lol
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PMSL!!!
"Shiny Windows Forever"!!
:)
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i paid the money and all i got was a sticker no cert !
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Thomas
Its how you use it, did you do a press release did you tell your clients.
I get comments all the time, it just goes to show your clients you are doing your best to better yourself, and what to look for in other window cleaners should they even consider getting other quotes.
Show them you are a professional and wear your "meaningful Badge" with pride
Guild and saC v safecontractor, no contest, try getting chas with your guild or SAC badge,
Dave
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ftp,
mine is up to date.
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i paid the money and all i got was a sticker no cert !
You should have received it via e-mail? If it's not in your junk mail folder, send Pete a quick msg (wce@mgwc.org) and he'll send a duplicate out asap!
:)
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I've been following a post on another site about the guild and have to say whilst i think Nat's intentions are sound, at the end of the day there is nothing stopping you from going to Vistaprint and inventing your own van magnet like " safe cleaner" or "master craftsman of gutter sucking" - it's meaningless for the customer - it proves nothing. You haven't had to train, study or sit an exam - no legal requirement. Why not just put "fully insured" on your van or stationary? I would have thought that was far more appropriate?
Nothing wrong with the guild if that's what you want to join, but no benefits either from what i can see. Just my opinion - shoot me down and prove me wrong.
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there are always ways of doing it yourself, ie you could just go to vistaprint and get a magnetic sign with your choice of words like "safe cleaner" or "water fed pole cleaner" etc, it will cost you i reckon in the region of 10 quid including postage for you to do that if you also want some biz cards, flyers etc....the certs you can do yourself on your pc......but thats all you have at the end of it, no website where custies can verify you are a member of it, or to verify you are in fact insured, you can of course make your own site up too, but when the custie logs on to see then it will look a bit silly with just one name on it,......for 2 quid extra you can join the guild get all the benefits of having your name associated with other window cleaners around the globe, a professionally made decal/certificate/website with your contact details and of course advertising rights of the guild logo/website to use on your stationary.....all that for 12 quid a year ???....me finks we need to look at the pricing structure ;D
ok i have looked at it, we will keep it at 12 quid for now, hurry lads or it just may go up before you get a chance to join. ;D
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I am not saying i dont like the guild, I just wouldnt present the cert to a potential client.
A few points.
Safecontractor,
It is up to you to tell the client about it, most people i hhave told about it have heard of it, it is govt recognised in the fact if you apply for Chas it will pre qualify you.
The FED
Overpriced, not a chance for £100 or so it is tremendous value, far cheaper than any other trade.
Nat
Very professional answer i am impressed, if you carry on in that manner i believe you will take the Guild forward.
One thing i would say for £12 you will struggle, some day someone is going to want some money for running things and £12 wont go very far at all, its ok now with a few members, how you going to cope with 500 members at £12 a head, it will cost more than that just in administration alone, no one is going to do it for free forever.
Not going to get into an argument about what you think of the guild Dave but I felt I must say that you are wrong about the admin and the costs. Also I think you are wrong regarding the fact that no one will do it for free. For a start I will be around for a few years yet offering my services for free. Why? because I believe in the Guild and I see it's potential, not to make someone money but what it could do for the window cleaning industry, people such as myself do it for the love of it. I know what I am talking about, take a look at something else I am heavily involved in: www.svr.co.uk
Now the SVR started with nothing but the will of a few people who gave their time freely. Over the last 44 years they have grown into one of the biggest steam railways in the uk. They have a turnover of £4 million and are supported by over 16000 members a large percentage of which are also unpaid volunteers who give their time freely to the running of the railway. They do it for the benefit of others and thats how I view the guild, run by other window cleaners for window cleaners not to make us a quick buck!
i paid the money and all i got was a sticker no cert !
I will look into that although I did have a few that seemed to end up going into peoples junk/spam folders. I will resend it later, if you haven't received it by this time tomorrow I email me (pthornhill@mgwc.org - Not the address that Nat put as he has mixed it up with my other email address! wce@sky.com) email me via ether address and I will find a solution to why you are not receiving it. Hope that helps!
Pete
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Ooops,.. I should know your e-mail addy by now!! (Insert blush smiley here!)
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Ooops,.. I should know your e-mail addy by now!! (Insert blush smiley here!)
Yes especially because it was YOU who set it up LOL! Stop quoting airports and concentrate ;D ;D ;D
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Joined a couple of weeks ago... only got a sticker for van....
will i recieve any info? i thought i would.
Gary.
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Joined a couple of weeks ago... only got a sticker for van....
will i recieve any info? i thought i would.
Gary.
Did you get the member cert via e-mail?
All info is in the hidden "Guild members only" section on another forum (Its bad form to post a link, but I sent it on the original mail a couple of weeks back). Let me know your username there and I'll upgrade your privileges so you can access the board!
:)
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... do you think a guild cert will impress.
It is a bit like rolling up your sleeve and showing off your tattoo, only for them to say
"Thats not a tatoo it is one of them you lick and rub on with the paper still showing"
I had to laugh at this, such a sense of humour! ;D ;D ;D
(Oh and yes I love the Guild!) ;D
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Joined a couple of weeks ago... only got a sticker for van....
will i recieve any info? i thought i would.
Gary.
Martindrz400 Can you email me your details please I need your real name and company name to check against the details I have.
Gazza I will resend your certificate later on - must get back to work, if you haven't received it by this time tomorrow please email me.
Thanks
Pete ;)
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Dave,
From your experience with the AWPC what do you class in your words:-"Unless it was govt recognised i wouldnt show"
What links have any current organisation with government, do they have regular meetings etc...
As you know the SLWCN has now strong links with Government Organisations and I would be concerned if I was a body in England the relevant information coming out from meetings etc.. It is not effecting you guys in England yet but I would keep an eye on it.
"Ladders" are a key word and with the shake up in systems I can see the HSE here in Scotland clamping down, also "cold calling" to name a few items.
Surely a govt recognised body would be keeping an eye that could effect the trade, who is doing that!!!
DWP are another name starting to be linked and the last time they worked with Councils over £1m of benefit fraud was found.
This is not a go at any up and coming organistaion but big changes are happening here with consultation with the SLWCN and I would strongly advise any organisation in England keep an eye out. We have successfully reversed a few changes and I'm sure there is more to follow. ;)
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Doug
I would consider the SLWCN to be far more advanced than the guild, you have actually lobbied government and forced them into action, so you are to be commended on that.
The APWC and the Fed were both government recognised as they were both registered as bona-fide trade associations.
That is the key they both went down the route of relevent criteria to be registered as a government approved trade association.
Safe contractor is recognised by government in the fact that if you are registered with Safecontractor it pre- approves you for www.chas.gov.uk, so no more forms to fill in, also it is backed by qualified H&S professionals.
The BWCA is recognised to an extent because it is also an NVQ centre and runs Iosh courses.
I must point out the fed also run an Iosh course, in fact they were instrumental in its content.
Until the Guild fulfill one or more of the above points then it is just a club.
Dave
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[quote
Gazza I will resend your certificate later on - must get back to work, if you haven't received it by this time tomorrow please email me.
Thanks
Pete ;)
Thanks
:)
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Joined a couple of weeks ago... only got a sticker for van....
will i recieve any info? i thought i would.
Gary.
Did you get the member cert via e-mail?
All info is in the hidden "Guild members only" section on another forum (Its bad form to post a link, but I sent it on the original mail a couple of weeks back). Let me know your username there and I'll upgrade your privileges so you can access the board!
:)
hi, do you mean the congratulations email?... i got that, it said something else will follow via email in a day or two, but nothing came.
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Joined a couple of weeks ago... only got a sticker for van....
will i recieve any info? i thought i would.
Gary.
Did you get the member cert via e-mail?
All info is in the hidden "Guild members only" section on another forum (Its bad form to post a link, but I sent it on the original mail a couple of weeks back). Let me know your username there and I'll upgrade your privileges so you can access the board!
:)
hi, do you mean the congratulations email?... i got that, it said something else will follow via email in a day or two, but nothing came.
I'll re-send the link,... all the info is on another forum,...
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;)
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I know, I know,... a Trade Association would send out a monthly newsletter,... but @ £12 a year our "club" can't afford all those stamps and envelopes!!
:)
To keep member fees low, the Guild does as much as possible via forums, e-mail etc etc. Even the member certs are delivered in electronic format via e-mail. It's all aimed at keeping member fees low,.. keeping that money in YOUR pocket!
:)
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If i go to price a domestic job and the customer can see that i am a member of The Guild then that surely means more than someone who isn't, be it just a sticker and certificate, or whatever it is to be judged.I have a couple of other logos on my vans and people like to see that. On stationary etc it all looks good and if i price a job and the local 'ladder on top of the family car' brigade price it cheaper,i would expect to get it. Every little helps to make our job look more professional. Therefore,i hope to join. Spent more than £12 last night on a take away! Portraying and conducting a good image speaks volumes.
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Doug
I would consider the SLWCN to be far more advanced than the guild.
Until the Guild fulfill one or more of the above points then it is just a club.
Dave
www.mgwc.org
read the statement: it IS a club, decide if it is for you or not.
the scottish licensed window cleaners network (slwcn) is something i too champion as it directly affects me, i live and work in scotland and pay my license fees to the councils that i work in, and as such i expect the council to make sure that licensed window cleaners are protected from the unlicensed brigade who take our work and undercut etc, but alas the councils dont seem to care, so thats the reason why i extol the virtues of the slwcn, as doug and co are doing the job that the councils are neglecting to do ie fighting for licensed window cleaners to win the official contracts and tenders which the councils supposedly adhere to, which they dont BTW, according to my knowledge the scottish parliament building in all its splendor was cleaned by a window cleaning company that have unlicensed lads doing the work.....and that is just plain mad in my book, the top official building in scotland using in effect illegal workers to do work in there?. no wonder the rest of the country dont even give it a second thought.
so ask me to defend the slwcn again and i will be right there among the doubters and critics to rally to their defence.
do i think the guild is identical/equal to the slwcn?.......NO (not least because the slwcn is geographically bound)
as co-founder of the international guild the intention at the outset was never to compete with the slwcn or the fed or any other TRADE association as that was always going to be a road filled with legal obstacles and pitfalls which we all knew would present problems in some form or other.
However as a passionate member of the guild 1st and foremost (admin second ) i have to say that the majority of the members concur with the ethos of the guild which is to give people like myself who are maybe a smaller company or even a one man band the chance to belong to "a club" or similar where there are other window cleaners who have the same line of thought that its better to be part of "a club" than to be part of nothing....i dont expect that the ones who are members of the FED or similar will be queuing up to join, as they ( yourself excluded of course) probably think its beneath them to join something like the guild...which is fair enough and if they are truly happy with the FED then who are we to argue?
give the guys who want to join the guild the benefit that they KNOW what the guild is and what its goals are and its expectations, which i think anyone who takes the time to read the information on www.mgwc.org will surely be able to understand ;)
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Graeme,
My post was not aimed at the Guild or anyone else, just wanted to clarify the term "government recognised"
Dave has answered that for me. ;)
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You have to know my aims ;)
Sitting with an elected Government Official today and then quoting law, facts and figures which is way over their head but guided in the right direction ;)
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All i can see with these free organisations is that people want something for free and dont want to pay for it, there is more to it than a monthly magazine.
The more people who join the "free clubs", then the more it leaves me to compete with meaningful accreditations.
People ask me how have i grown my business etc, i give you the answer in front of your eyes, but still people dont want to listen.
I will say no more.
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I cant see the harm in the Guild.
It's £12 a year
You get a listing on the web site
You get a logo that you can use on your Van & stationary
You get the support of other members via a private forum.
You dont get much else yet but isnt that enough for starters at £12 and hopefully the Guild can do more for it's members in time.
I support it because I like the enthusism of the founders and because they deserve support for trying to do something positive, instead of just talking.
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Graeme,
My post was not aimed at the Guild or anyone else, just wanted to clarify the term "government recognised"
Dave has answered that for me. ;)
i agree doug and my answer was directed at dave, and yes the question has been answered completely now, that the guild is NOT an officially UK,USA,EUROPEAN,AUSTRALASIA and REST OF THE WORLD governments recognised body, and we make no pretences that it is, how could it? as its an international guild it would be mad to try to attempt that, i for one cant afford the air fare to all these places ( lets have a look to double check, i have enough for a pound fare on ryanair from glasgow to dublin ;D ) NO it aint going to hapen.
someone else said it, 12 quid gets you a round of drinks at your local and its gone before you know it, for that same 12 quid you get all the benefits of being in the guild for a full year, a professionally designed van decal, certificate, listed on an international website and so on.
but your right there is no need for anyone to say any more on the subject as the question has been answered, that the members of the guild are intelligent enough to fully understand what the guild is and what its core values are before they joined.