Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: D.Salkeld_Ltd on February 27, 2009, 08:41:34 pm
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Hi Folks,
I have a good Domestic/light commercial round and have used a Backpack for nearly 3 years. Nothing else, backpack and pole and away I go.
But......
I have set it up right. I NEVER lift the backpack up onto my back. I have it mounted at Back height on the back of my trailer and just back up to it, strap on and away I go. To fill I have a 250ltr lay flat tank with a 12volt 1000gph bilge pump and it fills in 20 seconds.
And......
The Sureflow Backpacks are not good enough for our purposes!!
So, iff you a considering buying a Backpack, I would advise you consider an Omnipole one. They have an 80psi pump and a diferent controler.
Iff you already have a Sureflow and want to improve it. Consider the following:
1. The charger supplied is useless - go and get a good auto charger that delivers NO more than 1 amp.
2. Get a spare battery and rip the one off the mount so you can have one on charge and one in use.
3. When the pump packs in (Which it will!!). Go to Cleantechs and get one of thier Delavan Pumps. Same as the sureflow but has bearings in the motor and not bushes.
4. When you have connection problems on the battery conectors then just cut out the connectors and use spade connectors directly to the battery.
5. Lastly.... when the controler packs in (and it will!!) then replace it with just a rocker switch! OK the pump is going full belt but you get a cracking wash a far quicker working and, I am sure I use less water!! But the battery doesn't last all day so I carry a spare with me ( I have 4 Battaeries!!!)
So, to sum up:
1st.... Try an Omnipole Backpack
Iff you need to improve a Sureflow then
1. Replace the charger
2. Get a spare battery
3. Replace the pump from Cleantech
5. Throw out the controler and put in a switch and spade conetors to the battery.
David
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Or, to save even more hassle, buy a van, tank & 80m microbore! ;)
Hi Dave.
Tony
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Hi Tony,
With respect, I tried it for a week........................Drove me up the wall. Miles of hose all over the place. One or 2 bigger jobs I did do marginally quicker but I still love my Backpack.
Hows you, Tony?
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David, some very good tips you posted. Do you wear your backpack whilst you're cleaning windows or do you position it in the ideal spot and use an extra length of pole hose as an extension before your pole to reach around the houses with out the neede to move the backpack? Reason I ask is because I sometimes use a wcw backpack on awkward, inaccessible (van mount), houses with enough hose to reach around half the house and move backpack once.
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you just cant beat the backpack, if Organized properly you dont need anything else, backpacks are always improving, look at wcr backpack, 85psi pump enough power for any height, ok there is an issue of refiling with water, but then van mounts need to park then unleash metres of hose then reel it back in, so i think we are both equal in time wasting, but we both still get the job done ;D
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I had one of the first five backpacks in this country from Omnipole at a cleaning show 6 years ago I think. Main reasons I hated using it was because the on/off switch is underneath (ridiculous if backpack is left on the ground instead of worn on the back) and throwing a full backpack over my shoulders was awkward to say the least.
Bought Window Cleaning Warehouse backpack and a big improvement. Noticeably the carrying handle is built into the backpack which makes it much more practical. The on/off switch is in a more practical position and the pump only has one speed which is full on.
Use to hate using 18litre backpack (worn over back), but love using WCW new 15 litre (built in handle) backckpack. It serves it's purpose of saving me time where a van mount isn't suited to certain jobs.
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I have a 500L van mount (well pick up mount actually) but have to agree I find the WCW backpack a superb bit of kit. On a lot of jobs it is just easier to use the back pack than reeling out the hose. Some jobs I will do van mount front and use the back pack for the rears. I reckon it definitely saves me time. Be interested in details of the bilge pump you use as at present I carry a couple of 25L cans to refill the backpack.
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Everyone will probably know I am not a great believer in the backpack, but from a suppliers point of view they do sell, and a hell of a lot of them.
What I want to know from people who have tried them and didn't get on with it, and the people who use them all the time. What is the main disadvantages of using a backpack? I used a backpack around 9 years ago, and as soon as I got the weight of my back it was a hell of a relief.
For the backpack users. Would you like to get the weight off your back, but the advantage of having a self contained unit, at a very affordable price keeps you using, and buying them?
For ex backpack users, people who have tried them and didn't get on with it. What would you need to see on the market to give something like a backpack another go?
Thanks guys for any replies.
Peter
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Everyone will probably know I am not a great believer in the backpack, but from a suppliers point of view they do sell, and a hell of a lot of them.
What I want to know from people who have tried them and didn't get on with it, and the people who use them all the time. What is the main disadvantages of using a backpack? I used a backpack around 9 years ago, and as soon as I got the weight of my back it was a hell of a relief.
For the backpack users. Would you like to get the weight off your back, but the advantage of having a self contained unit, at a very affordable price keeps you using, and buying them?
For ex backpack users, people who have tried them and didn't get on with it. What would you need to see on the market to give something like a backpack another go?
Thanks guys for any replies.
Peter
Peter please call me I have a brush of yours that you need back.
Ian
p.s I have emailed but nothing back as yet, for people reading theres no problems at all with Peters gear, just a thing between us.
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OK Ian,
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Hi Peter
We have used a backpack for odd Jobs for over 2 years now, I removed the control board and extended the wiring added it all into an IP box and fitted it to the straps on top of the backpack, we don't carry the backpack we use a trolley, the switch being at the top enabled us to use it without having to tilt or lift it to switch it on and off apart from weight issues this has to be a major headache each time you put it on the floor the chances increase of damage to the switch.
How about a backpack that keeps the switch off the floor and out of any puddles maybe some built in wheels for those that want to use them and a collapsible handle, in other words a backpack that is a backpack but can be converted into a small trolley system for us weeds that would sooner trolley it about.
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Hi Peter
We have used a backpack for odd Jobs for over 2 years now, I removed the control board and extended the wiring added it all into an IP box and fitted it to the straps on top of the backpack, we don't carry the backpack we use a trolley, the switch being at the top enabled us to use it without having to tilt or lift it to switch it on and off apart from weight issues this has to be a major headache each time you put it on the floor the chances increase of damage to the switch.
How about a backpack that keeps the switch off the floor and out of any puddles maybe some built in wheels for those that want to use them and a collapsible handle, in other words a backpack that is a backpack but can be converted into a small trolley system for us weeds that would sooner trolley it about.
something like this www.rocketspray.com
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Sounds like you lot need a strong version of an airport suitcase type of thing. Built in wheels (servicable) with a strong extendable handle for towing. You then have the option of pulling a trolley or backpacking it. What does your average suitcase hold? Twenty kilos? they seem to work ok but are a little flimsy. I personally wouldn't use one 'cos of back issues, but there are times when a hose is a right pain in the backside.
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hi peter, the only issue mainly for me is refilling, i dont think that is something we can get around, but as jeff said built in removable wheels, would be perfect, switch built in at the top, and how about this, the same pump can be used as a transfer water pump from the backpack you could ad some kind of hose divert from the pump itself rather than picking up the water container, a switch with forward and reverse, now that would make a great backpack, o and must have a pump with over 60psi at least
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you just cant beat the backpack, if Organized properly you dont need anything else, backpacks are always improving, look at wcr backpack, 85psi pump enough power for any height, ok there is an issue of refiling with water, but then van mounts need to park then unleash metres of hose then reel it back in, so i think we are both equal in time wasting, but we both still get the job done ;D
The main problem with a backpack is lifting it on your back and filling up. But, as Jo has pointed out, this can be sorted out.
Also if you are contract Window Cleaning on large commercial jobs then, as Windowwasher says:
"its like trying to clean a 20ft high building with a 1ft ladder"
My statement is:
Backpack used on your back and set up properly is ideal for domestic/ light commercial window cleaning
I was just trying to kelp out with the problems with particulary the Sureflow Backpack.
David
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Sounds like you lot need a strong version of an airport suitcase type of thing. Built in wheels (servicable) with a strong extendable handle for towing. You then have the option of pulling a trolley or backpacking it. What does your average suitcase hold? Twenty kilos? they seem to work ok but are a little flimsy. I personally wouldn't use one 'cos of back issues, but there are times when a hose is a right pain in the backside.
the largest weight on transatlantic flights is now 23 K, i saw a old couple who had packed all there stuff in 1 large plastic suitcase, they were turned away and told to go and buy another suitcase and split up the contents
if was amusing to see them argueing that the suitcase was ok to use in 1997 ;D i guess they never did any homework, why should they
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hi peter, the only issue mainly for me is refilling, i dont think that is something we can get around, but as jeff said built in removable wheels, would be perfect,
Hi Jouk, surely the wheels wouldn't have to be removable to put the thing on your back? And if you had a trolley that was easy to carry when you came across and obstacles then you would never need to put the thing on your back?
switch built in at the top,
What about the switch built into the brush?
and how about this, the same pump can be used as a transfer water pump from the backpack you could ad some kind of hose divert from the pump itself rather than picking up the water container, a switch with forward and reverse, now that would make a great backpack, o and must have a pump with over 60psi at least
I agree with a decent pump, but what you suggested I think would take too long to fill the container. Wouldn't it be good with all of the above points covered if you could just swap over the water container, like people already do with a trolley?
Peter
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you can buy a 12 V 14 L sub pump for 15 quid, put in barrel and fill up your back back in 1 min
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hi peter, the only issue mainly for me is refilling, i dont think that is something we can get around, but as jeff said built in removable wheels, would be perfect,
Hi Jouk, surely the wheels wouldn't have to be removable to put the thing on your back? And if you had a trolley that was easy to carry when you came across and obstacles then you would never need to put the thing on your back?
Peter
Removeable wheels stop the dirt off the wheels getting all over your clothes, specially dog do and its easier to clean them. Have tried it.
www.rocketspray.com
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hi peter, the only issue mainly for me is refilling, i dont think that is something we can get around, but as jeff said built in removable wheels, would be perfect,
Hi Jouk, surely the wheels wouldn't have to be removable to put the thing on your back? And if you had a trolley that was easy to carry when you came across and obstacles then you would never need to put the thing on your back?
switch built in at the top,
What about the switch built into the brush?
and how about this, the same pump can be used as a transfer water pump from the backpack you could ad some kind of hose divert from the pump itself rather than picking up the water container, a switch with forward and reverse, now that would make a great backpack, o and must have a pump with over 60psi at least
I agree with a decent pump, but what you suggested I think would take too long to fill the container. Wouldn't it be good with all of the above points covered if you could just swap over the water container, like people already do with a trolley?
Peter
yes good point peter, i use the autobrush i forgot about that one ;D i meant to say flow control switch,
and jeff brimble took the words out of my mouth about explaining the removable wheels, mud, dog poo ect,
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You could have the wheels away from your back. But my main point was if the trolley was right, then there is no time you would ever need it on your back anyway.
Peter
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Nice to see you posting again david. Backpacks all the way for me, tried ny trolley in truck as a van mount and reeling in and out is more hastle than refilling backpack. I carry it on my back and it gives me 2 hands to adjust pole whilst walking to the next window. I fill using containers at present and believe that even using this method it is the fastest way to wfp a house. Got 2 shurflos and in 6 months not had any problems, touch wood :)
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That "rocketspray" looks perfect - 19.5 litres, removable wheels, 12 volts ...
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That "rocketspray" looks perfect - 19.5 litres, removable wheels, 12 volts ...
wonder who sells them in the uk,looks good to me
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I had mine on a very lightweight shopping trolley frame, it lasted about a year and was brilliant, I saw an old dear with the perfect trolley the other day, but someone had bought it as a present, and she didn't know where from.
I need a trolley weighing less than a kilo, wheels that are not too hard, and the backpack electrics placed where spilled water can't get to them.
Most backpacks are killed when water is spilled into the works when filling.
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I was looking at this one on ebay. Item number: 370161958154
It certainly looks good, just the job for going up steps.
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Peter and others,
Interesting to read about the idea of a trolley/backpack.
The first problem that springs to my mind is:
Lifting the machien on to your back
OK you set off with 20ltrs and you do a few fronts then you come to a walk through house/garage. Then you've got to LIFT the thing from GROUND LEVEL onto your back. Now I don't care if it is (God forbid!) full!! or only 2 ltrs in it, LIFTING it from GROUND LEVEL is a defenate NO NO!!
That's my point. The 2 major problems of using a Backpack I have virtually elliminated:
1. Lifting it on my back
My Backpack is mounted on a rack on the back of my trailer so I just back up to it, strap it on, lift
very slightly and away I go.
2. Filling Up
I have a tank in my trailer and a 1000gpd bilge pump with 1 1/4 inch delivery pipe to fill the
backpack effortlessly whilst on its rack in 20 seconds.
I am intending to fit a "In flight refuelling" pipe to the backpack so as in between jobs I don't have to
take the backpack off to refill.
Please remember:
The main point I was originally trying to put across was the problems with the Sureflow Backpack
David
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Gr8 to see you posting again :) :)
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I had mine on a very lightweight shopping trolley frame, it lasted about a year and was brilliant, I saw an old dear with the perfect trolley the other day, but someone had bought it as a present, and she didn't know where from.
I need a trolley weighing less than a kilo, wheels that are not too hard, and the backpack electrics placed where spilled water can't get to them.
Most backpacks are killed when water is spilled into the works when filling.
This ones from Wilkinsons approx £18 weighs 1.3kg fixes with a bungee top to bottom on the axle/front rail and lift the lot with one hand.
(http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc114/JeffBrimble/2009_0302CillBrush0014.jpg)
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My personal Opinion:
Backpack OR Trolley
You can't mix the 2!
By the way I do have a trolly in the back of the garage:
Draper Sack truck
30ltr Barrel
and I use a Chinese made 80psi pump with 5 speed controler pump box a coleage of mine got of E-Bay for £115 delivered. It's not a bad piece of kit.
AND I have a Hose reel I can attatch on the trailer and along with "our" pump box I can use "Trailer mount"
I used them both for about 2 weeks while the backpack problems mentioned in myoriginal post were sorted.
But I still won't swap!!
David
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Just a thought for Dai.
The Hudson above has 80psi.
Once you turtle into the pac it takes over and boy can you earn good money on domestics.
But I mostly use an elecy golf trolley now :'(
Dave, You tried a frame for the pac or uprated the straps, I worry about the new guys using unpadded straps. The shoulder joints the most compicatedl joint on the body. I think maybe a milk maids "yolk" carrier to bridge and take the pressure off the shoulder would help.
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Jeff,
The trick with the straps is a good waist belt, (which, I note the Omnipole doesn't have) get it fairly tight and it takes the main weight of the backpack and takes weight of the shoulder straps. Infact I often have a minor problem of one shoulder strap falling off. I think I will add a chest strap to bind the 2 together.
David
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I've never put the pack on my back, never saw the point when it can be carried, I carry it with the handle and place it strategically and use 10 metres of Algarde, lift it in and out of the car and carry 10 barrels of water. Takes no time at all to refill the WCW pack.
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, lift it in and out of the car and carry 10 barrels of water.
Don't you think that's a lot of water, about 250 kg, for a car?
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mine set on fire when charging, this was a omnipole not fit for purpose ?
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I have no idea about WFP but will be switching to it mid year. Would this be an option, it's on Ebay nr 200306458429.
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I have no idea about WFP but will be switching to it mid year. Would this be an option, it's on Ebay nr 200306458429.
It would be easier if you cut and pasted the link in your post.
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sorry
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200306458429&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm38.l1313%26_nkw%3D200306458429%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1
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My venture into WFP was with a trolley system from Peter Fogwill some....what...5 years or so ago.
Operated it out of the back of my Toyota Corolla, got on perfectly well with it, but operating WFP out of the back of a car is hard work, especially lugging around 25L containers of water and the like.
So it gradually mutated into a mini van mount setup and the trolley itself slowly became redundant.
Then along came the van and I went fully van mounted...great!
My new partner now works with me, when she started doing so I equipped her with the window cleaning warehouse backpack.
Started out as a straight forward backpack (never worn on the back though!!) which soon mutated into being carried around on a stripped down shopping trolley (much like the one pictured above).
But with heavy use the batteries on these things don't last long, the supplied chargers are pants too, so I soon ended out adding a small car battery, but these shopping trolley's are pretty flimsy things and ultimately the weight was too much...wheels fell off, the bloody thing would tip over! and so on.
So I bought a collapsible sack truck and bungee strapped the lot on there!!
Best thing I've done, it is a fantastically versatile piece of kit now, would be no good used out of the back of a car, the weight is too much really, but out of the back of a van it is safe and straight forward, all lifting can be done correctly.
The trolley is narrow and so far have had not a single problem getting around the back of anything, even through houses! (not had to wheel it over carpet as of yet).
To fill it I have a transfer pump in the tank in the van, takes 20 seconds or so to fill.
One speed pump I know, but I just have a very simple inline tap to regulate the flow, just the same as I do with the van mount.
I adjust it to about a litre per min and that suits me fine, on domestic houses I can do 2 standard size 3 bed semi's per fill.
Used alongside the full man mount the two of us can work very efficiently indeed.
The WCW backpack is a really good one, little to go wrong and ours has been going flat out for the last 8 months.
Hated the charger on on it so I bypassed it and use an intelligent charger on it instead, though as said, I now use a small car battery, but I had done this anyway prior to cutting out the original battery.
Ian
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sorry
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200306458429&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm38.l1313%26_nkw%3D200306458429%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1
Rubbish, don't touch it; honest. Why did you think this was suitable?
If you're after a trolley system, can't you purify your water at home and then use it with a simpler trolley that just has a pump and flow controller?
Or get a backpack? I bought and tried a trolley system, but I didn't get on with it; I prefer the backpack.
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Tosh, I live in Germany and WFP is virtually nonexistant here. I only have a rough idea of WFP and am trying to find out as much as I can, just wondered why a piece of kit like that would end up on Ebay.
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Don't you think that's a lot of water, about 250 kg, for a car?
Its a big 7 seater people carrier with the rear 5 seats removed and the barrels are well spaced.... ;)
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Tosh, I live in Germany and WFP is virtually nonexistant here. I only have a rough idea of WFP and am trying to find out as much as I can, just wondered why a piece of kit like that would end up on Ebay.
Have you had a look at Matt's DIY site? That used to give a good explanation of how all this stuff works; it's simple once you understand the principles; honestly.
I'm not sure if I can post a link to it here, but if you have a search for Matt's posts, I'm sure you'll be able to e-mail him for a link.
Also, where in Germany are you; just out of interest? I've spent years in Germany as a squaddie. My postings were Bielefeld, Duisburg, Verden (near Hannover), Celle and Belsen (both near the infamous concentration camps).
I seem to remember there's loads of flats in Germany; probably because most of the houses were bombed during WW2; but most of them have balconies; which could be a pain.
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Was in 10 regt RCT bielefeld, Do alot of quaters in Herford bielefeld and paderborn, All houses, German custies are houses and flats. Thanks for the tip, will try and find his site. Need all the help I can get, off to Holland to run with Pingu in the summer and get more clued up. Thanks again
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Was in 10 regt RCT bielefeld, Do alot of quaters in Herford bielefeld and paderborn, All houses, German custies are houses and flats. Thanks for the tip, will try and find his site. Need all the help I can get, off to Holland to run with Pingu in the summer and get more clued up. Thanks again
Cozy,
My first posting was 10 Regt RCT. It has a special place in my heart; honest. I even spent 21 days in the jail there (after four days close arrest). I was there from late 1987 till late 1991 (I went to Gulf War 1 with them).
I was 9 Squadron, though I went to Ireland with 36 Squadron around 1989.
It's a small world. Hey, you might even know me.
Do you know they've been having 10 Regt reunions for the past few years?
E-Mail me; toshisba@yahoo.co.uk I'll help you all I can.
Added later;
I was at 10 Regt from late 1987 till early 1992; I was the guy with the slanty eyes known as Tosh or the Jap Sniper.
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I had mine on a very lightweight shopping trolley frame, it lasted about a year and was brilliant, I saw an old dear with the perfect trolley the other day, but someone had bought it as a present, and she didn't know where from.
I need a trolley weighing less than a kilo, wheels that are not too hard, and the backpack electrics placed where spilled water can't get to them.
Most backpacks are killed when water is spilled into the works when filling.
This ones from Wilkinsons approx £18 weighs 1.3kg fixes with a bungee top to bottom on the axle/front rail and lift the lot with one hand.
(http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc114/JeffBrimble/2009_0302CillBrush0014.jpg)
That one looks great, and very light too. I'll have a look next time I'm in Rhyl.