Clean It Up

UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Simon@arenaclean on February 27, 2009, 07:59:43 pm

Title: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Simon@arenaclean on February 27, 2009, 07:59:43 pm
Ok been using twin 3 stage vac machines for years with 135 psi pumps, Alltec pro plus for the last few years and it has and still does serve me well, even the grottiest black top.

Having never used a machine like the scorpion, perfect heat, or tricked out Ninja with these monster pumps how the hell do you recover the water? Ok the scorp has 3 vacs I get that but the other twin vacs how do they cope? What's the max psi you run at? Do you change jets, if so what size? This has interested me for sometime so thought i'd ask before I immerse myself fully in the scorp V perfect heat V raptor V ninja etc etc. Or am I not missing out.

Your thoughts welcome ;D

Simon
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Darren O on February 27, 2009, 08:27:56 pm
I went from a Prochem Powermax 120psi to a Raptor 300psi and the difference is masive you do leave the carpets a bit wetter but your a lot faster to and usually only need a quick pass with the wand when spraying the solution most of the time i use 250psi and find thats more than enough.Another thing with bigger pumps you seem to get a lot more problems with them well i did with my Raptor.
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Darren O on February 27, 2009, 08:41:42 pm
Also meant to say the wand that came with my Raptor has smaller jets and you get a finer spray from it.
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: JS2 on February 27, 2009, 09:10:53 pm
This is not a direct answer, but a good few operators use the pre-spray, aggitate and dwell and ph neutalising-rinse technique.  In theory this contrasts to a large, high impact liquid deposit that must be swiftly recovered.  This 3-step method is naturally slower than a high-psi blasting technique followed by strong vacuum, but can, if applied sensibly, result in relatively low residual moisture and a very good clean.

Regards

Pete (JS2)
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: John Kelly on February 27, 2009, 09:11:52 pm
Its a fact that the more water you put down the more you can recover. Doesn't really cause any wetting problems.
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Simon@arenaclean on February 27, 2009, 10:44:11 pm
This is not a direct answer, but a good few operators use the pre-spray, aggitate and dwell and ph neutalising-rinse technique.  In theory this contrasts to a large, high impact liquid deposit that must be swiftly recovered.  This 3-step method is naturally slower than a high-psi blasting technique followed by strong vacuum, but can, if applied sensibly, result in relatively low residual moisture and a very good clean.

Regards

Pete (JS2)

Pete that's what i've been doing for eons. Take today 3 beds, hall, landing stairs, dining room and lounge. I do a lot of work for a holiday cottage company and they get pretty bad still a good job done but with pre vacuuming, furniture moving and using the above process took about 6 hours. Are folks with these high flow portables able to work that much faster. If I was using a scorpion or perfect heat could I save a couple of hours. I was home by 4pm but if it makes me more efficient would I be home by 2pm  ;D If it saves me 30 minutes I don't really need it. Mind I suppose on pub carpets the pressure must be a help but on the wooly I did today ???

Do you folks use the same method as me, or do you pull up, fill up, clean up and go and get the right results. An insight into the method of cleaning you use would help.

Thanks for the comments.
Simon
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Mike Osbourne on February 27, 2009, 10:55:25 pm
I have a Speedster with a 450psi pump and a Ninja as a backup machine with 135psi.

However I've only ever cranked the speedster up to 300 and leave it on 200 most of the time....yet I can move the wand far faster for the same cleaning ability than the ninja which equals less effort, more yardage more money.

Seems to dry just as quick as the ninja, your only reason not to get one is the initial cost.
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Darren O on February 27, 2009, 10:58:52 pm
That shouldnt take anywere near 6 hours to do that when i start a job the first thing i do is fill up the porty put it on preheat then go and vac then prespray then aggitate with carpet brush then extract with hot water then put down a fan to speed up drying.Bigger pumps come into there own when doing heavily soiled carpets and the hotter the water the better.
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Simon@arenaclean on February 27, 2009, 11:19:03 pm
Thanks Darren. So would you use high temp/pressure on wool or high wool content or twist piles. I reckon an hour per room soup to nuts is about right. I confess I am not a rocket but can work up a sweat when roused, oh that did include 30 min break for lunch, or is lunch for wimps ;D

Thanks
Simon
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Simon@arenaclean on February 27, 2009, 11:20:21 pm
I have a Speedster with a 450psi pump and a Ninja as a backup machine with 135psi.

However I've only ever cranked the speedster up to 300 and leave it on 200 most of the time....yet I can move the wand far faster for the same cleaning ability than the ninja which equals less effort, more yardage more money.

Seems to dry just as quick as the ninja, your only reason not to get one is the initial cost.

Direct comparison, thanks Mike
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: clinton on February 27, 2009, 11:54:41 pm
Mike

You prefer your speedster to the ninja then ???

The ninja at 135 psi aint to bad :)
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Darren O on February 28, 2009, 12:18:36 am
Simon are you saying you cant clean a wool carpet at 250psi with hot water your having a laugh or then again if it takes you 6 hours to clean the above your probably not.
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: daysdeepclean on February 28, 2009, 12:28:28 am
I love these posts, it's like a game of "Top Trumps"! Who give's a damn? As long as you're not using a RD, undercutting or giving us hard working C/C's a bad name by doing a poo job, you'll do for the customer!!!! And you'll do for the trade!!!
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Gordonnis on February 28, 2009, 07:27:28 am
Too right  well said !
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: clinton on February 28, 2009, 08:36:39 am
Think we all have our way of cleaning  ???

Some clean on low psi some on high and as long as we get the same results :)

No point with a clean at over 200 psi if the cleaner does not know what there doing :o
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: M.Acorn on February 28, 2009, 09:54:53 am
My 2p worth,i have a Prochem powermax with a 120psi and not the 70 psi it came with,did a job yesterday for a lady,just lounge and hall,she knew her onions,and told me her dad did carpet cleaning for 30 odd years,and then her brother left the building trade,and started up,both of them used truck mounts !
She was a little bit dubious when i unloaded my machine,and asked if it was going to be up to the job.
Of course i said,seen and cleaned much worse than this.
Cleaned as normal,got great results,custy over the moon.Moral of the story is ,it`s not all down to the machine,but how you use it,and attention to detail  ;D
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Darren O on February 28, 2009, 10:03:41 am
Got a phone call yesterday fom a customer wanting her carpets cleaned she asked me if i used a hand hed cleaner i said what do you mean she said i dont want one of those machines you bring into the house i want the ones you use from your car i tried to explain about high powered portables but she was having none of it.
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Fraser Thom on February 28, 2009, 10:09:56 am
I agree with your post Mark - Although the power of the porty/truckmount is a factor, surely the most important thing is a thorough vacuum followed by using the correct pre-spray with enough dwell time and agitation. 

I've not been doing this job all that long but, in that time, I've been amazed by the number of customers who popped their head round the door before I've even extracted and said "Wow, what a difference.  It looks great!"

Fraser
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: clinton on February 28, 2009, 10:15:27 am
Fraser

Just think of what they would say if you had done it with a t mount ;D
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Fraser Thom on February 28, 2009, 10:19:22 am
Clinton - The way my prochem powerplus is behaving it'll be going in the bin soon.  I've not had it a year yet and it's been nothing but trouble.  Replacement pump, the in-line heater broke down, it's had water dripping out at two different points, wonky wheels. Rubbish

I think it must have been a "Friday" machine!

Fraser
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: clinton on February 28, 2009, 10:22:58 am
Had one years ago and was not pleased with it :(

Always stuck to alltecs myself and have used them since the mid 90s.

A bit heavy mind you to lift into van and never taken them in the houses as use plenty of hose.

Sometimes as you say you can get a bad one ::)

Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Fraser Thom on February 28, 2009, 10:30:26 am
I'd love to invest in a truck mount but the main problem is the amount of flats I clean where it is just impossible to park at the front door.  I'll try to target more houses as time goes on and I suppose I could have the porty as a back up for the flats.

I doubt it'll be a prochem truckmount, though!

Fraser
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Darren O on February 28, 2009, 10:32:03 am
When you read some of the posts on here about cleaning carpets you would think you would have to be a brain surgeon to be a carpet cleaner its not realy a hard job its just commen sence when is the last time somebody overwet a carpet and had a problem with it  i think some people look for problems when theres none there.
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: clinton on February 28, 2009, 10:35:49 am
Fraser

Think if i was starting of now i would go for t mount :)

Think it just gives you the added selling point  to build your work load and client base up ???

Most t mount set ups a portie is a must i guess as there will be jobs that  the t mounts wont reach.



Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Fraser Thom on February 28, 2009, 10:37:47 am
I think you're right of course.

Although new truck mount equals new van equals big hole in wallet!

Fraser
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: clinton on February 28, 2009, 10:42:54 am
Well if your happy with the way you worki fraser i wouldnt change it mate :)

Just think to build up a good base quick its a good investment.

There are some set ups going for around 7 n half grand for t mounts and van.

Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Simon@arenaclean on February 28, 2009, 10:56:00 am
Simon are you saying you cant clean a wool carpet at 250psi with hot water your having a laugh or then again if it takes you 6 hours to clean the above your probably not.

No. I was asking if you could, why am I having a laugh ??? High temps and pressure can damage wool and twists. If you need to turn the heat and pumps down then it is only useful on man made untwisted piles. If you're cleaning them at 80/90c and 250/300 psi with great results you answered my question.

The point of the thread was not if you have a monster porty you're an idiot or that I can ONLY clean using a 3 step process that takes an hour a room. I've never used one and the best way to find out is ask the bloody question!
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: dave123 on February 28, 2009, 11:38:10 am
Fraser ,I don't think you had a friday machine .I've had a prochem steampro 2000 for years and to be honest i persevered with it .I have just aquired a ninja 400 psi with built in steamate ,I love it and wished i'd gone with ashby's years ago.It has cut my work time down by just under a half .Less time to do jobs means more jobs can be done meaning more money . ;D I find ashby's chemicals better as well and cheaper.
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Fraser Thom on February 28, 2009, 11:45:05 am
I'm beginning to wish I hadn't gone for the Prochem myself Dave.  Oh well, you live and learn.  I can see it becoming my back-up machcine within the year!

Fraser
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: clinton on February 28, 2009, 11:57:01 am
Dave

You have got a good tool there :)

Like the concept of the dual heat.

Have you got the inline heater also as well as the built in steam mate ???

You could get the piggy back booster and 2"vac  hose .
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Darren O on February 28, 2009, 12:10:30 pm
Simon ive never had a problem cleaning wool carpets at 250/300psi and also at high temperatures i dont think you will save 2 hours on a 6 hour job if you are using a bigger pump i think you would need a truckmount if you want to save a lot of time to me bigger pumps means you flush the carpets better and faster passes with the wand hope this helps Darren.
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Dave_Lee on February 28, 2009, 01:36:17 pm
Truckmount means 6 hour job become a 2 hour job, hole in wallet because of investment costs, soon repaired. Wetter carpet because of higher psi pump becomes, even higher psi pump, but carpets almost dry on completion. Result more money in wallet and much happier customers.
Dave.
ps. User of top end portables for 23 years prior to TM.
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: clinton on February 28, 2009, 02:43:34 pm
Dave

Where do you think the limits will be on a portie ie vacs power etc,up to a few years back there was not much of a 3 vac set up.

Konow there much more powerfull than a few years ago ???
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Mike Osbourne on February 28, 2009, 02:46:51 pm
Wonder if we will ever get to a point where the general public only consider a TM clean and if you want to compete you would HAVE to have one or go out of business?

Dave is spot on and it's a natural progression when the time is right ie more work than time and wanting tp grow a business.

Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: dave123 on February 28, 2009, 03:59:09 pm
Clinton ,
Yes it is the built in heater ,and if work picks up i might even go for the add on vac giving me 3 vacs in all .As far as TM,s go  I  have found recently talking to other cc's at Ashby's a lot of them are going over to porties.Was talking to a guy the other day he had a tm for 8 yearsbut he got fed up of having to take it down to Cornwall everytime it needed repairing so got himself a 400psi and says that they are just as good as the tm he had.Don't ask me what one he had can't remember .but here in London you have the trouble with noise and parking .With the psi and 3 vacs you can run a 400 foot hose and not lose any power .
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Joe H on February 28, 2009, 05:25:51 pm
.With the psi and 3 vacs you can run a 400 foot hose and not lose any power .

Thats a BIG statement.

What porty is that with and have you actually done it?
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Mike Osbourne on February 28, 2009, 05:35:14 pm
I call it Ashbyballs  ;D

Would be great if it was true. But why would you want to run a portable that far anyway?

Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: davep on February 28, 2009, 06:00:27 pm
Bit off topic but 6 hours?  I did 4 bedrooms, landing, stairs 2 x lounge today in 2 hours.  That included pre vac, prespray, agitate and rinse with the Prowler.

The house was empty though  :P
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: clinton on February 28, 2009, 06:32:38 pm
Dave

Did like the idea of the water heater and the built in steamate :)

You caint run both the heaters at the same time can you ???

What price are the dave or around.

The booster vac will be usefull too.

I did enquire about one and that was including 2"vac hose and fully insulated solution hose :)
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Mike Osbourne on February 28, 2009, 06:51:08 pm
Dave do you still pre vac on every job now you have the Prowler?
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: clinton on February 28, 2009, 06:59:25 pm
Dave

Sounds like your getting the prowler working then :)

That was  good timing the house you cleaned
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: davep on February 28, 2009, 07:45:22 pm
Not every job Mike.  :D
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: DanielWelford on February 28, 2009, 07:53:08 pm
I think you just get the tools for the job you want to supply to the market you serve.

If you do a lot of sq ft then you can justify the investment in a truckmount. However if most of your work is domestic terraced work then i dont see any real benefit in one as you would struggle to transfer the increased costs to the ticket price, and then you have parking issues etc.

I do think too much emphasis is placed on truckmounts. Lets face it they wouldnt sell portables if they werent any good as there wouldnt be a market for them.

Just my opinion  ;D

Dan
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Mike Osbourne on February 28, 2009, 08:05:25 pm
Dave

Didn't think so. ;D
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: davep on February 28, 2009, 09:19:44 pm
Daniel the main advantage of a tm for me is getting through jobs faster, that may be fitting in an extra job in a day or just getting through one job a hour sooner  ;)
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: brianbarber on February 28, 2009, 10:03:44 pm
With regards to ninja with steammate, been running this as my first machine for one year,and it really does the job.
But already i am looking at TM purely for savings on setting up and packing up times,plus at over 45 kilos, savings on my bac, although i built a ramp to get it in and out of the van.
I have also left on both power leads extensions, which was a pain keep connecting and disconnecting with each appointment.
Considering carrying water in a tank on the van, as this saves going in an out with buckets at customers place,and water will be hot by the time pre vac,pre treat and sebo duo.

My first post

Brian
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: Mike Osbourne on February 28, 2009, 10:13:32 pm
Welcome Brian,  :)

Another option is to look at ways to do more per job. Upsell for more  rooms, protector, bigger homes etc.

I aim to do 2 jobs a day so don't spend a big proportion of the day setting up and packing down.

I looked at putting the Speedster in a van but you might as well go the whole hog and get a TM
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: clinton on February 28, 2009, 11:17:19 pm
Welcome brian :)

Where you based mate ???

Must say i saw the video on the ashbys web site and looks a good tool with the added heat.

Mike there is a few up here who run there porties as t mounts now.
Title: Re: Pump it up? 500 psi so how do you....
Post by: dave123 on March 02, 2009, 10:06:20 am
Joe and Mike ,
True why would you want to run 400ft 0f hose with a portie ,but it was demonstrated at Ashby's Sittingbourne unit and with the 3 vacs the 400psi does'nt lose any power.