Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Mike Halliday on December 23, 2008, 01:08:28 pm
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I spent the last half of the year really pushing the leather cleaning.
I added it onto my leaflet, put it on the front of the van and mentioned it too every customer who had a leather suite but i can't say its really taken off. maybe 2 jobs a month........... but I expected more.
anyone else disappointed with the amount of leather work they get?
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Getting less leather work then I used to - but I cannot say it was all that great.
I have heared owners say "I got a leather suite then I wouldnt have to clean it".
Dont know where they expect the body grease on hands and heads etc to go.
Pity really, cause leather cleaning is so much nicer to do then fabric.
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Same here joe and never had that many enquireys ???
If you look now at the new leather suites and i know they aint top quality but the store in stockport is doing them for 299 new :o
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same story for us, have really pushed the leather cleaning and restoration since the ccdo this year but have done two recolouring jobs and two cleans since then, so largley dissapointing
even on those jobs i had to spend time educating the customer about the benefits etc, but i think on the whole most think leather doesnt need to be cleaned and when it comes to restoration its just not cost effective for them, maybe the new year will change that mentality with every body tightnening thier belts etc and trying to save a few pennies
regards
steve
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did a quote on a filthy leather suite, women said she cant do it herself as she has hurt her back, did a test patch to show her exactly how much i could get out using ltt maxi.
she said "thats not very good, i got it cleaner than that using fairy liquid and a nail brush"
i tried eduacating her but she was way past that.
some people eh!
derek
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Derek
Its much harder to sell leather cleaning as in the above posts say the customer does not see leather cleaning in the same leauge as cloth upholstery and seem tp think thy can do it themselves ???
I know a lady that i clean for and she uses bleach to clean hers :o
Your right they also use fairy liquid :D
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As leather is still between 60 - 70% of the furniture market there is definitely potential out there. But as has already been said many people buy leather because they think they can clean it themselves. It is our job as cleaners to educate them otherwise, this had to be done with carpet and fabric cleaning at some stage.
If you are an upholstery cleaner, leather should always be a part of your services as without it you are instantly cutting out a section of your work. If they still want to clean it themselves then make sure you are selling them product that is effective and will not do any long term damage (bleach and washing up liquid will both be very harmful in the long run). Selling product to your customers will make some money for you.
Unfortunately most customers who ask for their leather to be cleaned have reached a stage when they should be asking for restoration so cleaning only often seems fairly ineffective. Restoration is a different skill and a different cost scale which can only be sold on good quality furniture.
Judging by the increase of consumer enquiries to us there really is a market out there but it needs to be defined within your present market and you need to learn how to sell it effectively.
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I think Judy/Andy is right, it's restoration time before they call you in.
Leather adverts goes out with pretty much everything I do. In fact I never advertise for fabric upholstery, yet I get tons of that and hardly any leather.
If it wasn't for Mossy telling me it's an earner I'd of stopped bothering yonks ago.
The bottom line is most people are cheapskates and if they 'think' they can clean it with baby wipes they will and won't take a blind bit of notice of you until it goes all sticky and clammy which is how I advertise it now.
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i dont get much leather really, i think people think they can clean it themselves, whereas a fabric suite needs a machine,
most new suites come with a cleaning kit nowadays, but how many fabric suites come with one?
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Hi Guys
I have definitely seen a drop off in the last six months, when times are tough people will clean themselves.
Cheers
doug
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I think Doug's probably close to the truth..................it looks easy to clean................they do so for a year and call you when it's damaged, but you'll make more from a damaged suite than one that just needs cleaning!
Every time I clean carpets and see a leather suite, I tell the client about our leather cleaning service and ask how they maintain it. The discussion that follows, often results in a job, directly, or by referral.
I reckon you could get near enough full time leather work if you had premises and high visibility.
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Even when they try to clean it themselves theres nothing to touch getting it professionally cleaned! Do a demo for them and clean the dirtiest seat cushion so they can see the difference. One trick I sometimes do is make a square on a seat cushion with some masking tape and clean inside it. I then take the masking tape off and the result is usually quite dramatic...enough for me to get the job to do it!
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VERY weak tape I hope !
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Use gaffa, then you can go for a re-finish too :)
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Jim
;D
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I find less than 1% of work is leather so advertise likewise
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Like the bus service I get none and then 3 arrive at once, only ones I do tend to get to clean are the cream ones because the brown and blacks just don't show dirt also cream leather IMO is going out of fashion, but I am generalising.
Shaun
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I agree with Judy , Did a suite the other day took 5 hours, I realise Im slower but that wa ridicolous.
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Ian
I did a gream upholstery suite few weeks ago and that took me a fair amount of time ::)
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What were you using Ian, a Rug Doctor ?
Only time I spent that long on a suite was about 20 years ago.............it was thick with sticky tobacco residues and I only had a little portable with me, don't remember what I was using, but it was nothing like todays products and it taught me a lesson.
robert m
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The bottom line is most people are cheapskates and if they 'think' they can clean it with baby wipes they will and won't take a blind bit of notice of you until it goes all sticky and clammy which is how I advertise it now.
Mike,
I agree that specific advertisement is more effective than just pushing for leather cleaning.
But could you please share with us how you would solve this “sticky and clammy problem from baby wipes?
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®
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Roger,
Depends on the cause of the problem and the type of leather Roger.
How, in simple terms, would you tackle it?
Mike
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You have to be careful that you distinguish 'cleaning' jobs from repair and restoration jobs. Stickiness from baby wipes cannot be 'repaired' by simply cleaning as the top finish has been damaged. Repair jobs take a lot more knowledge and understanding to do than straight fprward cleaning.
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5 hours seems a long time.
Last one I did was 2 weeks ago and it took me just short of 2 hours, and it came up a treat.
John
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5 hours is a ludicrous amount of time to spend cleaning a suite but it must have been filthy! It usually takes me 2-2.30 hours to clean a leather suite properly.
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when it comes to leather cleaning, my price varys on the amount of soling
from £150.00 to £400.00
if they dont want to pay
DON'T DO IT!
thats why i always go out and do a quote.
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I like your style Colin, to many of us put up with people that only want to pay a token payment thats not enough to really make any money.
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Every leather job should be assessed and quoted for as an individual job. You cannot generalise as the leather has to be identified and the cleaning approached in a way appropriate for the leather and the level of cleaning/repair/restoration required, only then can a real price be given.
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What were you using Ian, a Rug Doctor ?
Only time I spent that long on a suite was about 20 years ago.............it was thick with sticky tobacco residues and I only had a little portable with me, don't remember what I was using, but it was nothing like todays products and it taught me a lesson.
robert m
Rob
Did not knowI could use a rug doctor on leather ;D ;D
It was Cream and she did smoke.
Did think I should use those special sponges but did not.. Just thought I would let you all know
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Thought you could create miracles with them Ian, at least that's the impression given...............I actually thought you were referring to a fabric suite !
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Thought you could create miracles with them Ian, at least that's the impression given...............I actually thought you were referring to a fabric suite !
i can rember doing a ten cushion suite in dralon where when i per spayed it there was that much fAg smoke on it it lefted brown run marks down the cushions ! it took two of us 4 hours to clean what a bugger that was for 35 pounds ! :(
mine you i got all her daughts rented houses to do after seeing how good we were ! she now as 38 houses ! so it was worth lossing on that job
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£35????
how long ago, not recently i hope, dont you quote when you see the job?
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Roger,
Depends on the cause of the problem and the type of leather Roger.
How, in simple terms, would you tackle it?
Mike
Mr Osbourne,
In simple term use acidifier2.0™ as per instruction until it revert to a healthy squeaky feel.
acidifier2.0™ concentrate - shake well and mix with 25 parts distilled water before use.
Ready-to-use specialty leather cleaner pH value 2.0 is a water-based strong leather acidifier.
For:
All leathers - aniline, pure-aniline, semi-aniline, vegetable-tanned, pigmented, bicast, nubuck and suede or woolskin and fur skin.
To:
Neutralize strong alkaline exposure that cause bleeds, marks, streaks, brightness, tackiness or sliminess;
especially after alkaline-cleaners, hand-soap, ammonia, bleach, lye, caustic-soda, baby-wipes, etc.
Instruction:
1. To detect alkaline exposure that result in sliminess or tackiness - check by lightly rubbing with wet fingers.
2. To apply - use brush, cotton swab or spray and agitate with leatherBrush1™, nubuckBrush2™ or suedeBrush3™.
3. To let dwell 5 to 30 minutes depending on exposure severity.
4. To test for satisfaction - check again with wet fingers for a healthy squeaky feel.
5. To extract - use dry absorbent towel.
6. To remove all foreign residues - use rinse3.0™ for all leather types and rinse4.0™ for wool and fur types.
Roger Koh
leather Doctor®
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bit too brief for me roger, can i have it in more complex terms.
derek
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MR KOH, THANK YOU!
My typical scenerio for me is a pigmant leather has worn or degraded through improper cleaning. They say whatever they clean it with doesn't make a difference.
Typically it's a clean/prep, paint, finish and protect.
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Mr. Osbourne,
When there is a sticky problem, our initial step is to rectify with acidifier2.0™ until the finish is strong and healthy again with a squeaky feel.
Otherwise adhesion and peeling might be a problem depending what route you take as a prep.
In your typical worn and degraded pigmented finish, we agree that the logical route to take is a refinishing.
We do encourage our system user to warranty up to 5 years (to show our confidence in the Leather Doctor® system).
Do you give a “Warranty”?
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®
#1 Sectional before Refinishing
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/10-22-080211.jpg)
#2 Sectional after Refinishing
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/12-3-080331.jpg)
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And Mr West, this detail is for you!
(This is the typical technical back-up when you are not sure).
This is the armrest proposed sequence of steps for your appraisal.
Step 1: d’Ink7.7™ as grease and oil removal double up as prep cleaner with leatherBrush1™, nubuckBrush2™ & anilineEraser4™ without resorting to solvent.
Let dwell 30 minutes thereafter extract until towel shows clean.
Solvent deteriorates the partial removed finish and more likely to fail on adhesion.
Solvent dries the finish plasticizers thus making it brittle and diminishes the fatliquor in the leather structure thus stiffen the leather too!
Step 2: Use clean3.8™ to remove sticky residue with agitation using either brush to fit situation and extract until towel shows clean.
Step 3: Use rinse3.0™ to acidifier rinse, agitate and extract until towel shows clean.
Step 4: Use relaxer3.3™ to hydrate the thickness of the leather structure and best to seal it up for at least 4 to 8 hours.
Step 5: Extract as dry as possible, the worn areas with light hand scudding to squeeze out suspended foreign soil particulates without causing further damages.
Step 6: Use fatliquor5.0™ to fatliquor into the moist leather structure.
Step 7: Plastic wrapped up for another 4 to 8 hours.
Step 8: Remove the plastic and let dry another 4 to 8 hours.
Step 9: When leather is dry (must be dry like normal) use an iron without steam (small travel iron) and iron over new printing paper (on wool to cotton setting) to remove all these creases.
Step 10: If the surface feels oily from the non penetrated fatliquor clean with clean3.8™ follows with rinse3.0™.
Step 11: Use impregnator26™ and brush with a 3” foam brush to saturate all the weak and absorbent areas.
Step 12: Use a blow dryer helps the drying process.
Step 13: Now use 1000 grit to 1500 grit sandpaper and smoothen all rough spots.
Step 14: Reapply impregnator26™ to satisfaction to weak absorbent areas only.
Step 15: Use a damp lint free towel and wipe off non worn areas - avoiding unnecessary build-up.
Step 16: Use adhesion73™ and apply with a clean foam brush concentrating on worn areas and feather out avoiding streaks.
Step 17: Either color coat with semiColor74™ or pigColor64™ to match existing leather type using padding or foam brush as the first light coat without streaks, follows with air spraying.
Step 18: Follows with either semiTop57™ or pigTop56™ by air spraying.
Step 19: leatherScent’B™ can be brush on with a 3 to 4 inch foam brush.
Need further explanation?
#3 Close-up before
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/Damagedarm1.jpg)
#4 Close-up after
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/12-3-080341.jpg)
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Mike
I think it really does make a difference, as I and I'm sure many others have discovered over the years, as I live in a village which is famous for producing high quality leather I thought the products they sold would be correct for the purpose of cleaning / conditioning, when I started cleaning leather 20 years ago but they are pretty useless. One product is what Roger refers to as fat liquor, which the leatherworks has sold for years as a conditioner.
I've played around for years with many products, ending up with foams and sponges / scourers / brushes, but even then, it's easy to strip of the top coat.
Since attending both F/C and L/T/T courses I only use safe products to create the foam.
Roger posted before me.
That's a typical abused suite, the kind we come accross frequently, but rarely as bad. While the renovation would be straightforward, the cost could make it non viable, unless, of course the processes were speeded up dramatically.
I like working with leather and it's physically easier to work with, hope to develop this in the coming months.
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roger.
going on the cost of materials, one quote you gave came to around £300 quid, and the length of time it takes to clean, your way, i.e. leave 4 to 8 hrs, leave fore 30 mins leave for another 4 to 8 hours plus all the work inbetween leaving and dwelling. after all this, wouldn't it be cheaper and quicker to re-upholster the suite's, with far better results and all in all a happier customer.
just a thought.
not having a dig, just logic thinking from an outsider-ish type person.
derek
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I really enjoy working on leather although I would be the first to admit I'm at the start of my learnings in leather resto.
I'm very happy with the simplicity of Furniture Clinics products and approach whilst aware there are other differing thoughts on how to tackle certain jobs.
I've not heard of any problems with the quality and longevity of FCs products in the field.
All Rogers stuff seems aimed at high value items and therefore the products, time and workspace are easily factored into the prices.
I'm also a big fan of raising the perception of value in the customers eyes but I just shake my head when I see Rogers product inventory, but hats off to him cos it obviously works. :)
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roger.
going on the cost of materials, one quote you gave came to around £300 quid,
This aniline wax pull-up “starter kit” recommended will have leftover from the initial loveseat.
No! We definitely will not consume all of these for just one love seat on the (leather problem thread)!
Products: Ready-To-Use in Liters Equivalent Price in ₤ @ Nov 18th
d’Oil4.4™ 60 ml ₤23.84
d’Grease4.9™ 1.32 L ₤36.93
clean3.8™ 3.9 L ₤46.63
rinse3.0™ 4.86 L ₤51.60
relaxer3.3™ 1.56 L ₤23.27
fatliquor5.0™ 1.5 L ₤33.96
waxEffect95™ 1.32 L ₤35.15
leatherScent’D™ 2.62 L ₤59.32
(Total ₤310.70)
and the length of time it takes to clean, your way, i.e. leave 4 to 8 hrs, leave fore 30 mins leave for another 4 to 8 hours plus all the work inbetween leaving and dwelling.
Typical tannery operations are divided into a Wet Operation and a Dry Operation a total of 19 process.
Leather Doctor® system follows the exact sequence of process with the same principles.
No short cuts that's why!
after all this, wouldn't it be cheaper and quicker to re-upholster the suite's, with far better results and all in all a happier customer.
True, we work with upholsterer too, they pass us job in return we referred back if there a need to reupholster.
just a thought.
not having a dig, just logic thinking from an outsider-ish type person.
We are not chasing after cheap sets - we rather sell them the products for them to do it themselves even on refinishing.
We are proud that we can re-produce world class standard, better than new of any leather types garment (Zegna®, Brioni®, Hugo Boss®, etc), furniture (de sede®, Rolf Benz®, etc.)
Do you know that modern classic leather appreciate in value through the years.
These modern classic are found in Museum (New York & Hamburg).
Learn how to identify a modern classic piece - that’s where the money is!
You go no where with cheap sets!
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®
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Thought you could create miracles with them Ian, at least that's the impression given...............I actually thought you were referring to a fabric suite !
Rob they take 10 hours and usually fall to bits where the head and arm grase has rotted the fabric for the past ten years then you have the babies sick to deal with so they say ;D ;D ;D
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Hats off to you Roger that suite looks brilliant.
You obviously aim for the top end of the market judging by the cost of materials and time taken.
You've learnt your trade well and are now reaping the rewards.
How much training did you do before you were let loose on the world of leather.
Believe it's just a 2 day course at LTT over here.
John
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For the last 2 years ive been using Ultra Clean from furniture clinic great stuff then about 6 weeks ago got another order 1 litre of ultra clean and 1 litre of protecter both are totally different from the previous ones i bought.The ultra clean was nowere near as strong and i used 3/4 litre on 1 suite and there was hardly any foam also the strong smell wasnt there either to me it looked if it had been watered down.I phoned furniture clinic and they sent me out a foaming bottle and must say it was a lot better but still no way as good as the old stuff so i phoned LTT and ordered some strong cleaner from them so will wait and see how good there stuff is.
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Our basic course at LTT is 4 x 1 day courses to cover information from leather ID to complete restoration, however, the real work begins when you have the knowledge. Training gives you the groundwork and then you need to do the practice. You cannot expect any training course to be the only thing you need. Working closely with a training company (as we do with many of our best technicians) after training will give you the best basis for ongoing learning and technicians (once trained) continue to come to us for on going training and updates on new products and techniques.
Andy Alcock (our technical Director) has had over 20 years experience in the leather restoration industry including 3 years in the USA troubleshooting for one of the biggest warranty companies in the USA which is how he built up his expert knowledge but even he is continually learning and experimenting with products and new techniques and talking to tanners and chemical manufacturers, ...........the process never stops.
Many of the delegates we have trained have progressed to a very high level of expertise in restoration work and are now reaping the rewards of the training they have done but it takes time and commitment as with any work you want to do to the best level there is.
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GOOD job Roger before and after pictures nice one.
CHEERS TONY
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Judy/Andy LTT
Did that cleaner from Sheffield ever come back to finish his training?
I keep bumping into his well actual my new customers because of his bad attitude.
Shaun
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Which one was that Shaun?
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Thank you guys that you can appreciate good work done.
This work was instructed by me but carried out by someone else like you.
Would you like to know the details from enquiry to delivery?
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®
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yes
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The process is to:
Clean (Maxi Cleaner)
Degrease (Professional Degreaser)
Alcohol wash (Alcohol Cleaner)
Pigment coat (BRIT Restoration)
Refinish (Satin Gloss followed by Matt or Semi Matt to adjust sheen)
Protect (Ultra Protect)
Fairly straight forward, the biggest job being the degreasing as there is always far more in the back of the leather than at the front and it is crucial to remove all the grease and body oils before pigmenting and finishing as adhesion would be a problem if there are any left in the leather. This may take a couple of coats.
Degreasing takes time to do the job properly and generally speaking is best left overnight although heat can be used to speed up the process.
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Thank you for your interest!
This is the entire Cut & Paste from another forum, a total of 17 posts:
How to Repair and Refinish to Save a 13 yrs old worn out Pigmented Armrest?
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Post #1 by Chet:
A picture of a protected cream colored leather sectional with a lot of wear and damage to only one arm.
The rest of the sofa needs a good cleaning and some repair to the bottom cushions.
Roger do you think we can save this arm and do you think your finish will last, it's now about 13 years old.
Damaged Arm
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/Damagedarm1.jpg)
Entire sofa
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/10-22-080211.jpg)
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Post #2 by Roger:
This looks like a pigmented leather, however it could be a semi-aniline leather too (semi-absorbent pigmented).
Besides the finished damaged areas the coarse breaks suggest that the original fatliquor has diminished too!
The leather has stiffen and resulted in these coarse breaks, that when soften and removed will avert potential uneven wear from rubbing.
So this attempt is not just to refinish it to look good for a while but also to restore the leather structure strength and softness.
If the leather structure is rejuvenated as a priority it will last for the next 13 years, for sure.
I believe this is more of a “pillow” to whomever that lies there and may have absorbed hair oils that caused the damage.
A “green” and effective degreasing is mandatory too (degreasing without conventional solvent products that affects health and the environment besides a fire hazard).
So the priority is not only safe and effective degreasing alone but strengthening and softening this weak area with fatliquor5.0™ as well.
It’s to be followed by a protein blend impregnator26™ to tighten surface grains.
Thereafter seal coated with adhesion73™ before either pigColor63™ or semiColor74™ color coat.
And to be tested with a 2” Scotch Tape Rip Test to pass the “Adhesion Test” even before the top coat.
Any questions so far?
And do you want me to continue with the relevant sequence of steps to achieve the desired result?
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
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Post #3 by Chet:
If he decides to go ahead with repair what will be my steps in order so I can give an accurate appraisal.
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Post #4 by Roger:
You have to restore the cushion back to its original through the recommended steps that may include softening and strengthening and removing the crease and wrinkles too!
That may include a refinishing that may make the rest looks old, worn and tired unless they are equally refinished too!
I would suggest that if they like the way the armrest is been done, would they also consider to do the rest as well.
Then you can come up with a pricing for the cushion alone and also a price for the entire set as well.
It’s a win-win situation; you have your practice and your customer have the best sequence of process done accordingly to the universal tannery standard.
It’s time to get work done and build your reputation with renewed confidence too!
And work may flow in sooner than you think!
The “word of mouth” is a very powerful tool.
Who knows he might be your cheer leader too!
Bringing you a customer or two!
What do you think?
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
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Post #5 by Roger:
This is the armrest proposed sequence of steps for your appraisal.
Step 1: d’Ink7.7™ as grease and oil removal double up as prep cleaner with leatherBrush1™ or nubuckBrush2™ without resorting to solvent.
Let dwell 30 minutes thereafter extract until towel shows clean.
Solvent deteriorates the partial removed finish and more likely to fail on adhesion.
Solvent dries the finish plasticizers thus making it brittle and diminishes the fatliquor in the leather structure thus stiffen the leather too!
Step 2: Use clean3.8™ to remove sticky residue with agitation using either brush to fit situation and extract until towel shows clean.
Step 3: Use rinse3.0™ to acidifier rinse, agitate and extract until towel shows clean.
Step 4: Use relaxer3.3™ to hydrate the thickness of the leather structure and best to seal it up for at least 4 to 8 hours.
Step 5: Extract as dry as possible, the worn areas with light hand scudding to squeeze out suspended foreign soil particulates without causing further damages.
Step 6: Use fatliquor5.0™ to fatliquor into the moist leather structure.
Step 7: Plastic wrapped up for another 4 to 8 hours.
Step 8: Remove the plastic and let dry another 4 to 8 hours.
Step 9: When leather is dry (must be dry like normal) use an iron without steam (small travel iron) and iron over new printing paper (on wool to cotton setting) to remove all these creases.
Step 10: If the surface feels oily from the non penetrated fatliquor clean with clean3.8™ follows with rinse3.0™.
Step 11: Use impregnator26™ and brush with a 3” foam brush to saturate all the weak and absorbent areas.
Step 12: Use a blow dryer helps the drying process.
Step 13: Now use 1000 grit to 1500 grit sandpaper and smoothen all rough spots.
Step 14: Reapply impregnator26™ to satisfaction to weak absorbent areas only.
Step 15: Use a damp lint free towel and wipe off non worn areas - avoiding unnecessary build-up.
Step 16: Use adhesion73™ and apply with a clean foam brush concentrating on worn areas and feather out avoiding streaks.
Step 17: Either color coat with semiColor74™ or pigColor64™ to match existing leather type using padding or foam brush as the first light coat without streaks, follows with air spraying.
Step 18: Follows with either semiTop57™ or pigTop56™ by air spraying.
Step 19: leatherScent’B™ can be brush on with a 3 to 4 inch foam brush.
Need further explanation?
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
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Post #6 by Pioneer:
clarification of process
________________________________________
Roger,
Could you please clarify what the protein blend impregnator 26 does.
I understand all the other steps but wonder what the function of the impregnator is?
Thanks!!
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Post #7 by Roger:
The function of impregnator26™ is for strengthening leather inter-fibrillary structure weakness.
impregnator26™ is an aqueous protein compact resin blend compound impregnator.
For: Worn leather grains and micro cracks.
To: Restore, seal and strengthen worn leather structure area and leveling out uneven absorption for further coating process.
Fill and tighten leather structure with good leveling properties that is film forming for improve abrasion resistance.
Instruction:
Shake well; apply by brushing with foam brush to saturate into all weak and absorbent areas.
Concentrating only on needed areas otherwise wipe off excess to surrounding area to reduce buildup.
Use 1000, 1200 or 1500 sand paper to smoothen for in between coating.
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Post #8 by Pioneer:
When would it be used?
________________________________________
Roger,
I noticed you recommended the use of impregnator26™ when refinishing the armrest with a semi-color and also as a possibility if the leather needed repair when Chet was asking how to refinish the aniline wax pull-up, is this a product that would be used regardless of whether you are dying or coloring a piece of leather?
Would it be used anytime the corium has been nakedly exposed?
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Post #9 by Roger:
I noticed you recommended the use of impregnator26™ when refinishing the armrest with a semi-color and also as a possibility if the leather needed repair when Chet was asking how to refinish the aniline wax pull-up, is this a product that would be used regardless of whether you are dying or coloring a piece of leather?
Yes! On either situation we are repairing the strength of the leather structure.
For the armrest it is important that this weak structure be re-strengthened so that any flex or pressure will be re-distributed and shared evenly throughout the entire leather panel.
As the impregnator26™ works by penetrating and saturating the weak structure, it will react and combine with the leather fiber to become part of the leather structure to reduce looseness.
The tightening effect will make this area less absorbent for the next adhesion coating.
The coating is for the surface rather than to be absorbed into the leather structure as it does not help to strengthen the leather at all.
As for the aniline wax pull-up repairs, it is recommend that 25 to 50% of anilineDye21™ be added into the impregnator26™ and applied at the same time.
More skill is involved as dyes saturation is accumulative and no room for error because it is difficult to hide or cover-up darkening effect.
Would it be used anytime the corium has been nakedly exposed?
Yes!
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Post #10 by Chet:
Roger, the sofa in question was dropped off today.
I have the products to start the process of cleaning and replenishing the fat liquor.
I will need the impregnator26™ and adhesion73™ to proceed further.
There are definitely course breaks on the section with the deteriorated arm, however the rest of the sofa looks good.
How much of the above products will i need?
How much pigColor64™ will I need for the entire sectional?
And how much pigTop56™ will I need for the entire sectional?
Is pigTop56™ a clear coat? or are they both pigmented to match?
Do you custom match dye?
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Post #11 by Roger:
impregnator26™ if you are talking just for the armrest only than I think 60ml will be more than enough.
adhesion73™ just for the sitting cushion, back cushion and armrest 250ml to 500ml depending on leather absorbency.
pigColor64™ you will need less if you are refinishing the exact color probably between 500ml to 1500ml.
This off-white is probably up to 90% white05 with Ochre-84 and Black-12 (Yes we do custom match).
pigTop56™ comes in both gloss and matte, intermixable to produce the desired sheen you may need probably 750ml.
And in most cases you need only matte.
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Post #12 by Chet:
Roger,
I applied several coats of impregnator26 mixed with 10% pig color.
Let it dry overnight, sanded it lightly then applied several more coats, dried with hair drier.
Then sanded it again with 1500 grit sandpaper.
It looked much better, however the deeper coarse breaks seemed to fill with the debris from sanding and did not come out with a tack cloth.
I'm also concerned that the deep coarse breaks never did fill all the way.
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/12-3-080301.jpg)
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/12-3-080311.jpg)
I had to finish the sofa and get it delivered, it looked very good, however I still see and feel the deeper coarse breaks.
I know if I filled them all the way I would have lost the grain and ended up with a smooth finish.
How would I get the grain back?
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/12-3-080341.jpg)
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/12-3-080331.jpg)
Do you have pictures and more explanation as to how to complete this repair in the future?
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Post #13 by Roger:
First the whole idea of the impregnator26™ is to strengthen the leather structure internally.
The first few coats have to be done without any pigment mix allowing the product to work accordingly.
The subsequent coats can be mixed with color as you did, it’s OK.
Debris can be removed by leatherBrush1™ or your air nozzle.
For deeper cracks can be further strengthen and fill with a combination of:
1. leatherBond3D™ alone first then follows with color mixture.
2. For deeper cracks leatherBond3D™ first, then follows with a mix of leatherBond3D™, leatherFill90™ and color.
The objective is for strengthening with flexibility to even out the stress rather than just for look.
Note:
Coarse Breaks = Creases or Wrinkles.
We are talking about Leather Structure Cracks = Broken Fibers be it micro or macro.
How much of the following products have you used?
1. impregnator26™.
2. adhesion73™.
3. pigColor64™.
4. pigTop56M.
5. Others
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
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Post #14 by Chet:
Roger,
I used the entire bottle of 60ml impregnator26™, however I used it on a few other areas, that had minor coarse breaks.
The first few coats were made without color (lucky I guess)
I used only one bottle 250ml of adhesion73™
I used only 1 bottle 500ml of pigColor64™.
Used 10% thickener (I only mixed the one bottle. It covered very well).
I used only 1 250ml bottle of pigtop56M™.
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Post #15 by Roger:
Roger I used the entire bottle of 60ml impregnator26™, however I used it on a few other areas that had minor coarse breaks.
“Coarse Breaks” refers to deep permanent creases without cracks -
I believe you are talking of micro or macro cracks here, am I right?
"Fine Breaks" refers to temporary creases - now you see, now you don't!
Also indicates that the leather structure is supple or soft to allow "fine breaks".
On the other hand "coarse breaks" denotes stiffen leather structure with diminished fatliquor.
The first few coats were made without color (lucky I guess).
Logically intelligent rather than luck, I suppose!
I used only 1 bottle of pigColor64™, Used 10% thickener (I only mixed the one bottle. It covered very well).
10% is a bit to the high side, I would normally use 5% by weight.
I used only 1 bottle of pigTop56M™.
No harm to apply additional coating on the heavy wear areas.
Did you apply leatherScent’B™?
What is your customer’s comment?
Are you more confident with this new found system?
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
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Post #16 by Chet:
There are several things that I think are much better, time will tell how well it holds up.
As I told you originally the other system always failed within two years, and sometimes within 3-6 months.
Most of the failures were with very used furniture, and in those high use areas.
The client was thrilled with the results, and yes I did use leatherScent’B™.
I would like more detail as to application and amount of time between steps.
Do you have pictures?
I'll be starting another sectional as soon as I get your supplies, and it is on another post.
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Post #17 by Roger:
Do you have pictures and more explanation as to how to complete this repair in the future?
Repair starts with prep cleaning - using d’Ink7.7™ follows by clean3.8™ and rinse3.0™.
Not with solvent, alcohol or alkaline cleaners - using these makes the leather stiffer, weaker and more prone to repair failure too soon.
The criteria of repair in high use areas is determine by the number of flexes it can withstand.
The softer and suppler the entire panel is, the more flexes it can take; the less chance it will crack again.
So keeping the leather supple and soft is the only way to prevent cracking through periodic fatliquoring.
Follows by proper hydration with relaxer3.3™ and seal off tight against evaporation overnight.
Squeeze moist of excess water then fatliquor with fatliquor5.0™ seal off and left overnight too.
When dry the crack is ready for repair:
The following are the picture steps I practice.
#1: impregnator26™ application - to tighten and strengthen the leather structure inter-fibrillary spaces, thus becomes part of the leather.
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/8-2.jpg)
#2: leatherBond3D™ application - to fill the crack with strength and flexibility without ever cracking itself.
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/9-1.jpg)
#3: leatherBond3D™/ LeatherFill90™ mix - to add solid to the mix.
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/10-1.jpg)
#4: leatherBond3D™/ LeatherFill90™ / color mix - to add color to the mix.
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/11-1.jpg)
#5: Application with leatherTool6™ to the crack.
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/12-1.jpg)
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Please join in with your questions - making this discussion more interesting!
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®