Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: WCE on August 01, 2008, 12:53:23 pm

Title: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: WCE on August 01, 2008, 12:53:23 pm
I decided while at home for lunch to take a quick look at: www.windowcleaningroundforsale.co.uk - Just looking to see what they had (although I am not looking to buy a round). Anyway the guy in Bornemouth made me chuckle - he reckons that his round brings £7,300 P.M How long to you think this guy claims it would take 1 person to do the round? 4-5 Days!!! So even if you took 5 days thats £1460 per day!!!! Yeah right. That puts even the most outragous claims on here (think j demarco!) to shame!
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: seandyer2003 on August 01, 2008, 01:06:44 pm
i no i seen that the other day and thought it was funny, not only that but you can have that work for just - £35000, and earn your money back in 5 months...yeh rite
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: mick hay on August 01, 2008, 01:06:59 pm
£1460 per day?

£7300 * 12 = 87600

87600 / 48 = 1825   (allowing 4 weeks hols)

1825 / 5 =  £365 a day
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: seandyer2003 on August 01, 2008, 01:07:41 pm
think he means 5 days a week though, 20 days a month
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: Clean Dude on August 01, 2008, 01:14:44 pm
Shell out 35k, and then get 1/2 the round saying "who are you? you're not my window cleaner!  get lost!"
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: WCE on August 01, 2008, 01:20:30 pm
think he means 5 days a week though, 20 days a month


£1460 per day?

£7300 * 12 = 87600

87600 / 48 = 1825   (allowing 4 weeks hols)

1825 / 5 =  £365 a day
I know that would be right based on a 5 day WEEK!!!
I did wonder myself if he meant a 5 day week but if you look at the rest of the ads they  state how many days per week. He didn't.
 Anyway the round 5 down seems steep £55,000 for a 3500 pm round ok you get a van and a bit of kit but that still seems very expensive
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: seandyer2003 on August 01, 2008, 01:21:04 pm
exactly, i have never had anything but trouble buying rounds, if that round was even half as good as he says why sell??? Surely putting a man in a van would pay to keep it going. id have to see it to believe!!
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: WCE on August 01, 2008, 01:23:43 pm
Theres another one a couple down bargain £50,000 for £4500- 5000 per month. Honestly would any one here really pay that for such a round?
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: WCE on August 01, 2008, 01:25:12 pm
Mind you saying that it is all commercial what about then is it worth £50,000?
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: seandyer2003 on August 01, 2008, 01:28:36 pm
not unless they are all in contract, otherwise its still £50, 000 for a good will business, big risk!
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: Xline Systems on August 01, 2008, 01:51:38 pm
Theres another one a couple down bargain £50,000 for £4500- 5000 per month. Honestly would any one here really pay that for such a round?

ive been and had a look at this round. well worth the money
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: JSMC on August 01, 2008, 01:59:16 pm
all you are buying is good will and nothing else at the end of the day.
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: seandyer2003 on August 01, 2008, 02:02:52 pm
if your lucky enough to have £50000 lying around in the first place!!
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: Xline Systems on August 01, 2008, 02:08:58 pm
that is only half the round there is 10,000 a month altogether
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: seandyer2003 on August 01, 2008, 02:18:50 pm
10 000 a month for one guy doing 5 days a week?
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: pt on August 01, 2008, 02:55:00 pm
Hi
I bought a round. Did not lose one customer.
Pt
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: seandyer2003 on August 01, 2008, 03:07:58 pm
ive not necessarily lost customers but they werent always great customers when you started, bad payers, etc, and tried to increase prices and alot are funny, the guy hadnt put prices up for years!! so they were not used to it! whereas my customers just around the corner ask me when im putting them up because fuel is going up etc, hopefully in time as they learn to trust me things will be better but when i canvass new work you dont have those problems, you can choose who you want and put in a good price from the start, so from now on im only canvassing!!
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: WCE on August 01, 2008, 03:48:20 pm
Did a bit of "googling" and have found a cleaning company near to me for sale. Contract cleaning and window cleaning 
T/O £200,000  P £100,000  Asking Price £100,000
So it would be 12 months before you got your money back.
Half their work is in build cleans and having just got my fingers burnt there with the drop off I am sure that there is no way that the profits will be as high this year (I  wonder how much I could knock them down on that basis). So 12 months before you see your money back - those window cleaning rounds don't seem to be far off that but forgetting the build clean issue for the moment you do get the following assets:
All contracts and business contacts.
All machinery and tools used by the company.
Company vehicles : 2 medium size vans “kangoo”
1 large size “Vauxhall vivaro”
1 small size “clio van”
1 cherry picker “trailer”
1 family car “owners vehicle” “laguna”
All office furniture
All cleaning supplies
Web site.
Two to tree weeks free support by the owner

There is also the office lease if the buyer wishes to take on, it comes around £4000.00 a year, 600sqf of office space and 400sqf of storage. The remaining lease is for two years. 

With that included the rounds seem expensive. Interesting eh!   
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: Xline Systems on August 01, 2008, 04:09:18 pm
i seen this one too i thought this one was expensive.
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: WCE on August 01, 2008, 05:15:55 pm
Well I emailed the cleaning company that was local to me and this was the reply:

Yes I'm still selling the business, I've got a few offers but i'm holding back a bit.
The price is still £100.000 and it does not matter if i gain new business. the  contracts  I've got are usually for 12months, but usually ther's no time limit becouse if the customers wants he will cancel anyway no matter what company works for them.
I've never lost a contract due to bad service.
if you need more info please let me know, or you can even pop in for a chat.
I will sent out more info next week.

So the contracts expire at best before you make a profit!!!
What a joke!
Don't think I'd buy that!
Any takers? 
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: LWC Ltd on August 02, 2008, 06:18:05 pm
At least they have somne kind of contract in place. Doesnt mean going to change at the end - just gets renewed. Doubt those domestic rounds have any kind of contract in place.

I do think rounds will go up in value the more people start window cleaning and work becomes harder to find.



Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: Wayne Thomas on August 02, 2008, 08:03:52 pm
I think it's riskier now to buy work whilst we are on the verge of a recession, people are being laid off from work and customers are starting to tighten their purse strings given the worldwide economic situation.  Plenty of desperate people wanting to sell anything & everything. Good time to be a buyer. Bad time to be a seller.
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: NWH on August 02, 2008, 08:27:43 pm
Rising gas and electric bills dosen`t effect everyone,there`s a hell of a lot of people out there that are already retired under 50-60 and have money to burn.The main lot of people that are effected are the credit card crazy gang that live off credit from month to month,i don`t target these kind of people for that reason.It`s not the current climate that will effect your business it`s the kind of customers you have on your books,some will see no change to there business at all from all this hype.
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: Wayne Thomas on August 02, 2008, 09:10:27 pm
Rising gas and electric bills dosen`t effect everyone,there`s a hell of a lot of people out there that are already retired under 50-60 and have money to burn.The main lot of people that are effected are the credit card crazy gang that live off credit from month to month,i don`t target these kind of people for that reason.It`s not the current climate that will effect your business it`s the kind of customers you have on your books,some will see no change to there business at all from all this hype.

I totally agree with you NWH, I live in East Devon which is below the national average for wages. I have lost 161 customers since January of this year which I have replaced. I have a wide variety of domestic and commercial work and a very varied mixture of properties that I clean from shops, pubs, hotels, churches, factories. houses, flats, holiday homes, all sorts really. I clean some of the most expensive, some of the poorest, and a mixture of in betweens. I have young, middle aged working people and pensioners. My safest work without a doubt is my commercial work, not domestic customers apart from affluent areas. Been caught out in the past from doing too much work for any one particular housing association who pulled the plug on me, so have learnt my lesson from that experience. I want to stay recession proof but it's not as easy as it sounds. Location plays a big part as well IMO.
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: windowwashers on August 02, 2008, 09:27:29 pm
uk wealth

90% of wealth is owned by 10% of the population.

Time for a revolution?

I thought it was 95%, times change I guess
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: NWH on August 02, 2008, 09:31:10 pm
Rising gas and electric bills dosen`t effect everyone,there`s a hell of a lot of people out there that are already retired under 50-60 and have money to burn.The main lot of people that are effected are the credit card crazy gang that live off credit from month to month,i don`t target these kind of people for that reason.It`s not the current climate that will effect your business it`s the kind of customers you have on your books,some will see no change to there business at all from all this hype.

I totally agree with you NWH, I live in East Devon which is below the national average for wages. I have lost 161 customers since January of this year which I have replaced. I have a wide variety of domestic and commercial work and a very varied mixture of properties that I clean from shops, pubs, hotels, churches, factories. houses, flats, holiday homes, all sorts really. I clean some of the most expensive, some of the poorest, and a mixture of in betweens. I have young, middle aged working people and pensioners. My safest work without a doubt is my commercial work, not domestic customers apart from affluent areas. Been caught out in the past from doing too much work for any one particular housing association who pulled the plug on me, so have learnt my lesson from that experience. I want to stay recession proof but it's not as easy as it sounds. Location plays a big part as well IMO.
Lost 161 customers,my god.
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: Simon_King on August 02, 2008, 09:42:50 pm
Rising gas and electric bills dosen`t effect everyone,there`s a hell of a lot of people out there that are already retired under 50-60 and have money to burn.The main lot of people that are effected are the credit card crazy gang that live off credit from month to month,i don`t target these kind of people for that reason.It`s not the current climate that will effect your business it`s the kind of customers you have on your books,some will see no change to there business at all from all this hype.

I take your point but how do you know who lives off credit and who doesnt? Short of asking to see bank statements I cannot see how you can be so sure.
People in debt often hide it pretty well.
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: windowwashers on August 02, 2008, 09:49:17 pm
Rising gas and electric bills dosen`t effect everyone,there`s a hell of a lot of people out there that are already retired under 50-60 and have money to burn.The main lot of people that are effected are the credit card crazy gang that live off credit from month to month,i don`t target these kind of people for that reason.It`s not the current climate that will effect your business it`s the kind of customers you have on your books,some will see no change to there business at all from all this hype.

I totally agree with you NWH, I live in East Devon which is below the national average for wages. I have lost 161 customers since January of this year which I have replaced. I have a wide variety of domestic and commercial work and a very varied mixture of properties that I clean from shops, pubs, hotels, churches, factories. houses, flats, holiday homes, all sorts really. I clean some of the most expensive, some of the poorest, and a mixture of in betweens. I have young, middle aged working people and pensioners. My safest work without a doubt is my commercial work, not domestic customers apart from affluent areas. Been caught out in the past from doing too much work for any one particular housing association  who pulled the plug on me, so have learnt my lesson from that experience. I want to stay recession proof but it's not as easy as it sounds. Location plays a big part as well IMO.
thats harsh but that at the same time is not domestic IMO thats commecial cleaning for a company, if you lost 161 domestic houses in that time you must ever by fat to expensive or very poor at your job, I am not pointing to any of them when I say this so please do not take offense.

Ian

Ian
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: NWH on August 02, 2008, 09:49:45 pm
Rising gas and electric bills dosen`t effect everyone,there`s a hell of a lot of people out there that are already retired under 50-60 and have money to burn.The main lot of people that are effected are the credit card crazy gang that live off credit from month to month,i don`t target these kind of people for that reason.It`s not the current climate that will effect your business it`s the kind of customers you have on your books,some will see no change to there business at all from all this hype.

I take your point but how do you know who lives off credit and who doesnt? Short of asking to see bank statements I cannot see how you can be so sure.
People in debt often hide it pretty well.
There`s people who try and look like they`ve got money and there`s people who just have,i go for the latter of the two.If they write you out a cheque from a coutts bank i wouldn`t worry about losing them as a customer they won`t let you bank with them unless you have at least 10k in the bank,i try to make sure lots of my customers bank with them if you know what i mean.
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: Simon_King on August 02, 2008, 09:54:27 pm
You must clean (move) in better circles than me ! ;D
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: NWH on August 02, 2008, 09:56:59 pm
I`m no better than anyone else on here,i just try and go for the cream these days.They call me the cat,or is it the girl thingy lol. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: windowwashers on August 02, 2008, 09:57:43 pm
Rising gas and electric bills dosen`t effect everyone,there`s a hell of a lot of people out there that are already retired under 50-60 and have money to burn.The main lot of people that are effected are the credit card crazy gang that live off credit from month to month,i don`t target these kind of people for that reason.It`s not the current climate that will effect your business it`s the kind of customers you have on your books,some will see no change to there business at all from all this hype.

I take your point but how do you know who lives off credit and who doesnt? Short of asking to see bank statements I cannot see how you can be so sure.
People in debt often hide it pretty well.
There`s people who try and look like they`ve got money and there`s people who just have,i go for the latter of the two.If they write you out a cheque from a coutts bank i wouldn`t worry about losing them as a customer they won`t let you bank with them unless you have at least 10k in the bank,i try to make sure lots of my customers bank with them if you know what i mean.
coutts some times these can be the worst customers NWH as the houses are very hign in value in cleaning terms most of the time, I have had a few problems with big accounts we have we do clean some very nice houses in Cambridge. I think you will find to have a coutts account you have to have a lot more than 10k in the bank unless they have downgraded themselves.


Ian
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: NWH on August 02, 2008, 10:00:30 pm
Rising gas and electric bills dosen`t effect everyone,there`s a hell of a lot of people out there that are already retired under 50-60 and have money to burn.The main lot of people that are effected are the credit card crazy gang that live off credit from month to month,i don`t target these kind of people for that reason.It`s not the current climate that will effect your business it`s the kind of customers you have on your books,some will see no change to there business at all from all this hype.

I take your point but how do you know who lives off credit and who doesnt? Short of asking to see bank statements I cannot see how you can be so sure.
People in debt often hide it pretty well.
There`s people who try and look like they`ve got money and there`s people who just have,i go for the latter of the two.If they write you out a cheque from a coutts bank i wouldn`t worry about losing them as a customer they won`t let you bank with them unless you have at least 10k in the bank,i try to make sure lots of my customers bank with them if you know what i mean.
coutts some times these can be the worst customers NWH as the houses are very hign in value in cleaning terms most of the time, I have had a few problems with big accounts we have we do clean some very nice houses in Cambridge. I think you will find to have a coutts account you have to have a lot more than 10k in the bank unless they have downgraded themselves.


Ian
It used to be 5k they have just raised it to 10k and that is just for a run of the mill current account,they are the queens bank and 99% of the time deal with big earners.
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: windowwashers on August 02, 2008, 10:05:21 pm
Rising gas and electric bills dosen`t effect everyone,there`s a hell of a lot of people out there that are already retired under 50-60 and have money to burn.The main lot of people that are effected are the credit card crazy gang that live off credit from month to month,i don`t target these kind of people for that reason.It`s not the current climate that will effect your business it`s the kind of customers you have on your books,some will see no change to there business at all from all this hype.

I take your point but how do you know who lives off credit and who doesnt? Short of asking to see bank statements I cannot see how you can be so sure.
People in debt often hide it pretty well.
There`s people who try and look like they`ve got money and there`s people who just have,i go for the latter of the two.If they write you out a cheque from a coutts bank i wouldn`t worry about losing them as a customer they won`t let you bank with them unless you have at least 10k in the bank,i try to make sure lots of my customers bank with them if you know what i mean.
coutts some times these can be the worst customers NWH as the houses are very hign in value in cleaning terms most of the time, I have had a few problems with big accounts we have we do clean some very nice houses in Cambridge. I think you will find to have a coutts account you have to have a lot more than 10k in the bank unless they have downgraded themselves.


Ian
It used to be 5k they have just raised it to 10k and that is just for a run of the mill current account,they are the queens bank and 99% of the time deal with big earners.
is that all it was before  :o I thought it was a lot more than that a few years back, I guess I was wrong, there cheques do feel very nice though god knows what there charges are, Lloyds cost me hundred's so Coutts business if they do this I guess would be skyhigh
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: NWH on August 02, 2008, 10:09:39 pm
A lot of your customers that bank with them are probobly big borrowers,they deal with a lot of big businesses who need to borrow millions or hundreds of thousands at least.
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: windowwashers on August 02, 2008, 10:11:28 pm
A lot of your customers that bank with them are probobly big borrowers,they deal with a lot of big businesses who need to borrow millions or hundreds of thousands at least.
I know what you mean and I guess mine are the same, as long as I am paid I really donty care if they bank with abbey or coutts make no difference to me and I Gguess thats the same for you m8  ;)
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: Wayne Thomas on August 03, 2008, 12:01:00 pm
Nothing wrong with any of my Coutts account customers. Wish I had more of them
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: Wayne Thomas on August 03, 2008, 12:12:56 pm
I have honestly lost 161 customers this year because they have lost their jobs, decided to put their houses on the market, found a cheaper window cleaner, can't afford to have their windows cleaned anymore, the lists go on.
Initially it started to get me down opening SAE's with a note in them cancelling. After a while I got off my backside and started replacing them but only with quality work as I am not prepared to take a step backwards and start working for peanuts again like all these new dole brigade window cleaners appearing out of the woodwork.
A lot of it is probably my own fault as my social life has been in turmoil (woman troubles) so I've not really been focused like I have in the past and have let my attitude really slip. I always look after my commercial work, my best domestic customers and the rest I've been carefree about.
I need a good kick up the backside because my motivation is low and my head is all over the place and until I can sort out my social life I'm on a spiralling trip downwards. Got to find new ways to motivate myself....any suggestions?
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: NWH on August 03, 2008, 12:19:30 pm
All i can say Wayne is that you`ll look back at your situation at the moment a laugh,all the time you have your health and breath in your body your lucky.In situations like this i always try to look at other peoples situations that are far far worse than mine,it makes you think how lucky you are.Chin up mate you`ve got the best job in world,at least your not in afganistan.
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: Wayne Thomas on August 03, 2008, 12:26:47 pm
Yes, at least I'm not in the army anymore, they're the ones I feel sorry for and their families. I've had to seal someone up in a coffin so they could be put on a plane and passed through customs back to the UK and watched my mates crying like little boys carrying the coffin, very upsetting. I block it all out but I sympathise for the young lads joining today
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: windowwashers on August 03, 2008, 12:29:14 pm
Yes, at least I'm not in the army anymore, they're the ones I feel sorry for and their families. I've had to seal someone up in a coffin so they could be put on a plane and passed through customs back to the UK and watched my mates crying like little boys carrying the coffin, very upsetting. I block it all out but I I sympathise for the young lads joining today
I sympathise with you also on that wayne as you know what it is like.

set yourself some goals for this week, will give you something to work to. Keep your chin up mate we all get down at some point and it's not nice but does pass  ;)
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: Wayne Thomas on August 03, 2008, 12:38:10 pm
I know it will pass, when I don't know, Life sucks at the moment but as long as I keep forcing myself to get up and go to work, the easier it will get and something good will emerge with positive thinking and time. I'm an optimistic person with a happy go lucky and very determined attitude. Just fallen on bad times but I remind myself it won't last forever. Thanks for your conerns, I'm picking myself up, I'm not a quitter. Failure cannot live with persistency and I'm persisting. Worked too hard to let it slide.
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: Clive McDonald on August 03, 2008, 01:05:06 pm
My figures are pretty bad too Wayne, i'll run george and put them up. As a a fairly new (not two years yet) wc I think that we attract all the other peoples rejects. Some customers (serial complainers) are not worth having, some only wanted the intial clean to bring the frames up, and moan when cleans two and three don't have the same before and after visual impact.

I picked up on something Trevor Knight said ( yes the mod who also gets blue), he said take yourself seriously because if you don't the customers pick up on it and get sloppy about payment etc.

These days selling anything is about the experience you provide. It's not just that you clean their windows but they have a pro doing it who values their business and wants to do a good job.

If it's any consolation Starbucks are shutting 600 of their 11,000 US stores.
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: Wayne Thomas on August 03, 2008, 01:27:22 pm
I know customers pick up on our attitude, I'm well aware of that. Bad payers get slapped with a late payment fee. New customers with filthy windows and frames get charged double with a note on George marking them up as good or dodgy until time proves otherwise.

Clive (Discount Window Cleaning), do you charge double or at least 1 and a half times the value for initial cleans to cover the time spent getting the extra dirt off to bring windows up to a maintenance clean standard? I find charging double stops a few 'time wasters' wanting a 'one off' clean pretending to want a regular clean does the trick but not always.

My lowest priced work I use for experimenting on. Trying to see how quick I can go and still leave a satisfactory result. I'll never improve on speed if I overclean and I like to find out what the limitations are :)

Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: Clive McDonald on August 03, 2008, 02:07:55 pm
I'm one of those do as I say not as i do people, so I don't charge double and often get caught out. It's easy to take things personaly when someone is rude or takes you for an idiot, but I try and remember this is a business.

This forum can be the same, you can't win every argument. It's most annoying for me when you are trying be geniunely helpfull (telling people they need a van, or half wits breaking windows and then posting about it but not taking the advice or the info they need).

The experimenting for me is now over, I am now on the money making phase. The George figures are;

Active jobs 290, suspended 42, completed 36. I had to estimate the completed because it wouldn't give a figure for this. Some of the completed are people who told me they wanted a one off. Some , say 20,are sackings.


so 20 plus 42 is 62, which as a perentage of 290 is 21.3%. So in effect I lose over twenty percent of all work that I get.


Over 20% of my customers sack me for one reason or another.
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: Oakley Windows on August 03, 2008, 02:20:28 pm
Got to find new ways to motivate myself....any suggestions?

Leave the women alone?
Title: Re: One for the braggers!!!
Post by: poleman on August 03, 2008, 02:22:25 pm
I know the chap that is up for sale! and some of the work he has I sold to him! its a lot of money to pay, but I know it will sell around here, I know one company around here( poole and bournemouth) went for 90k!  :o