Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: sjm on June 13, 2008, 11:56:23 pm
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Stories of impending doom and gloom , questions of getting the best google listings , thermo pure or not , ??? . Whats wrong with going out there and selling your service ? A lot on here are really complicating this job ::) . If you can clean windows , are fast , reliable . . . . then if carlsburg did window cleaners .............. ???
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im happy ;D
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then if carlsburg did window cleaners .............. ???
They would call them windowwashers.co.uk (http://windowwashers.co.uk)
;D
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Ian you need to take a day off mate LOL. ::)
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Ian you need to take a day off mate LOL. ::)
nah day off gives me a head ache (also shopping)
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I'm happy aswell especially as i have finally got myself a new van now to spend some more money on a system :)
Dean
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I'm happy aswell especially as i have finally got myself a new van now to spend some more money on a system :)
Dean
That the spirit ;D ;D ;D
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I'm newish to wfp. Got my system and knocked on doors, people are greatful for a window cleaner, dont rearly try hard. Doom and gloom on telly and in the papers but not in the streets. Just get out there and do it.
Mart
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im happy as well mate ;D
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im happy as well mate ;D
Your always happy Dave ;D
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i look on the bright side, when im dead i wont have to do this any more ;D
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It's the Govt. and media, like the fuel strike going on the media over-hype the situation. I am actually having the best year of my career, there is money in muck and that wont change!
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It's the Govt. and media, like the fuel strike going on the media over-hype the situation. I am actually having the best year of my career, there is money in muck and that wont change!
very true i found 10p in someones gutter once ;D ;D
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Yeah I can beat that!!! I found 20p on a customers window sill!!! They even let me keep it!!!
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It's the Govt. and media, like the fuel strike going on the media over-hype the situation. I am actually having the best year of my career, there is money in muck and that wont change!
That is so untrue :o
I do loads of guttering and pull nothing but crap out of them ;D
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a custy came up to me once with a £20 note once and said " i found this on my garden when you last came it must of been yours as its not mine" ;D ;D
it wasnt mine but i said. thanks for being so honest and pocketed it. ;D ;D
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a custy came up to me once with a £20 note once and said " i found this on my garden when you last came it must of been yours as its not mine" ;D ;D
it wasnt mine but i said. thanks for being so honest and pocketed it. ;D ;D
Con artist!!!
It's the Govt. and media, like the fuel strike going on the media over-hype the situation. I am actually having the best year of my career, there is money in muck and that wont change!
That is so untrue :o
I do loads of guttering and pull nothing but crap out of them ;D
You Aint looking hard enough! YOU MUST TRY BETTER! How else are you going to afford that Transporter for your daughter???!!! ;D
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I don't have the time to look harder, 'O' well it looks like shell will have to buy her own van :'(
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I have put up a poll to find out maybe it will change your mind. it's like giving your child a electronic toy with no batteries for it to work ::)
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put it this way i left a very secure job with great prospects for me in the future. I decided to go full time in WC. If i can make it over the next few years then i will be fine. GF's auld fella started out in the 80's when things were really grim and he said if you can make it in the hard times then you will be fine.
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put it this way i left a very secure job with great prospects for me in the future. I decided to go full time in WC. If i can make it over the next few years then i will be fine. GF's auld fella started out in the 80's when things were really grim and he said if you can make it in the hard times then you will be fine.
Now this is something I've heard said many times over the years and I tend to agree that on the whole, its probably a stronger test of ones personal resolve and true test of a business model if it can survive (and prosper) in a downturn. Its also fair to say that a new business starting out has less overheads than a more established business and as a result can operate a much 'tighter ship'.
Personally, I'd rather be entering a new business in less of a 'Boom' and more of a 'Flat' economy. 'Booms' tend to throw up excesses in every field (not unlike house prices in the last ten years) They can distort the true picture and lure you into a false sense of security which may lead to rapid expansion and excessive borrowing for growth when you are using current trading as a projection for future growth (this is what Northern Rock chose to do...and I think we all know how that turned out!).
SJM,
Broadly I agree with your assumptions - If you have a sound business, just do it!
The main problems wont be centered around those guys who are small and lean. They will focus around guys who are just about to make that 'next step' in their business or already have -
Should they take on another person? Using last years trading figures ,the answer would be YES..but what about next years projection? Is it still realistic to use that projection? Is it still a valid model? Does the model have to be re-worked or 'tweaked' to reflect a different set of circumstances?
Should they invest in new equipment?
Using the Thermo as an example, it appears hot water would make the job quicker and as 'time is money' then on the surface, the answer would be YES make that leap. But its very expensive. Will you be able to secure extra work as quickly as your current work to fill the 'dead time' created using hot water? Are you borrowing to buy the equipment? What does this do to your current earnings and business model? Did you build this expense into the model from Day One or are you playing 'catch up' with a rapidly expanding market? Will the market continue to expand at this rate? Will it contract? Is it stable?
This example works perfectly well whether we're talking about new vans, expensive poles (because you hope to secure higher work) or newer wfp systems.
Wishing, hoping, presuming, guessing, using figures from last year or positive attitudes wont affect the price of diesel. Neither will it affect a downturn. Indeed, if you were a haulier fixing your business model on last years diesel price then to all intents and purposes you have a bankrupt business. Would you agree with that?
Standing back in the cold harsh light of day and evaluating your position and model in a brutal, cold and dare I say it, business like manner is the only way to survive and prosper.
Let me use an example - lets say you lost a customer today. Would you want to know WHY you lost that customer or would you be so secure in your position that you really dont care why you lost them?...what if you kept losing them? At what point do you ask yourself: WHY am I losing them?
What is your churn rate? Is it cheaper to keep an existing customer or let them go and find another? All these questions need to be answered honestly and impartially using sound fundamentals and not what one 'hopes' will happen.
Any business, from the largest mutli-million pound corporation down to a 'one mand band' needs to ask these questions to themselves....after all, we're all in BUSINESS arent we?
Part of that is looking at outside factors that influence your business which are beyond your control.
I dont think of myself as a 'doom monger' but more of a realist. If things are good, then thats good. If things dont look so good, then why is that? and what do I need to change or what can I adopt to make the outcome different.
I hope that doesnt make me a 'doom monger'....or does it? ;)
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Northern Rock had no more say in this than some of the budget airlines that are now bust, or putting it another way still the business model (selling cheap 100% mortgages) was no longer valid.
As to the thermopure it does seem to be one of the keys to the door to commercial work. The other being safecontractor and an ad in yellow pages. A website would also seem sensible. All of which are investment
If you've got some practical ability (you don't need a lot) we can sort you out with a brilliant hot system for £300 on top of whatever it is you propose to pay for a system.
The current circumstances do not affect our business model.
Anyway this all theory. I'd much sooner agrue about a hypothetical business plan for you.Do you intend to do the work, or much of it yourself?
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Northern Rock had no more say in this than some of the budget airlines that are now bust, or putting it another way still the business model (selling cheap 100% mortgages) was no longer valid.
As to the thermopure it does seem to be one of the keys to the door to commercial work. The other being safecontractor and an ad in yellow pages. A website would also seem sensible. All of which are investment
If you've got some practical ability (you don't need a lot) we can sort you out with a brilliant hot system for £300 on top of whatever it is you propose to pay for a system.
The current circumstances do not affect our business model.
Anyway this all theory. I'd much sooner agrue about a hypothetical business plan for you.Do you intend to do the work, or much of it yourself?
I was reading about NJones hot system and that seems like a cracking idea.
I intend to do the work myself. This my rough plan (let me know your thoughts) -
Canvas commercial and domestic (with a leaning towards commercial from the outset as this is where I want to be) See how it goes and what the take up rate is on both.
Get towards that 'critical mass' (which seems to be around 500) and bring in one member of staff to cover that work. Start a new round and work that myself, repeat the process again...
Safe Contractor - This is something I've been reading about and there seems to two camps: one for it, and one dont seem to think that it makes much difference. I need to find out more about it - what does it entail, how much, is it recognised by the customer etc. etc. etc.. I must admit, I've seen the logo on a few posters sig's and I think it would look quite impressive on stationery/flyers etc.
Should I start a new topic instead of hijacking SJM's topic?
I was thinking of doing a sort of running blog keeping all my ideas, thoughts and progress (including knockbacks and failures!) all in one topic - which poles I'm looking at, which systems, vans, canvassing ideas etc.
Or should I just post topics 'as and when' I'm going along? ...what do you reckon?
Have you seen my Commercial work topic yet? I'd love your thoughts/ideas on it.
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Phase one
I haven't seen your commercial topic ( I don't think). I haven't got any commercial work and don't pretend to be an expert on it.
I do love business plans and ideas though.I'm a bit dogmatic, but not offended when you disagree. I can tell that you are very bright, but that's okay so am I. Some things in this game do not bend to intellect though as you will find out.
So, whilst continuing your mainly office based job with biz one you need to start biz two? There are couple of things. One don't expect the full support of GF, don't think spending money will be easy, or that the slow initial progress you will make will be greeted with encouragement.
The hardest thing is starting. I found it humiliating knocking doors and asking to clean windows. I remember one said "are you a window cleaner?" and for a moment I wasn't sure.
You aren't skint Dave, and neither was I, so when you are knocking doors and feeling very foolish it's very easy to say I don't need this. You go back to the other half who's probably made three or four hundred for the day and say you've got one eight pound job and one ten pound job (every eight weeks) as a result of your mornings work.
I also found the work very hard physically. An average earning day for me would be say forty pounds and this seemed to take forever. I ached all night. Gradually the forty became seventy.
You will need to buy trad tools and learn trad as in the picture below. No blog, topics as when, don't expect everyone to be positive,
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Phase Two
So now all you need is...
A van (signwritten, with a roofrack to take ladders and step ladders, a split charge relay)
A system- cleantech if you are doing it yourself
A leaflet
A website
A business plan with usp and mission statement
A name (your own) and some uniforms/workwear
Also some customers would be nice.....
You need to get on with it. It doesn't matter if you get some of it, or even quite a lot of it wrong, what is needed is action,
What's the budget?
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Oi get you own topic going ! :P
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Phase Two
So now all you need is...
A van (signwritten, with a roofrack to take ladders and step ladders, a split charge relay)
A system- cleantech if you are doing it yourself
A leaflet
A website
A business plan with usp and mission statement
A name (your own)
Also some customers would be nice.....
You need to get on with it. It doesn't matter if you get some of it, or even quite a lot of it wrong, what is needed is action,
What's the budget?
Talking a lot of sense,and giving free advise i would take it if i was him.
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Hope this helps Ewan.
The Unique Selling Proposition (also Unique Selling Point) is a marketing concept that was first proposed as a theory to explain a pattern among successful advertising campaigns of the early 1940s. It states that such campaigns made unique propositions to the customer and that this convinced them to switch brands. The term was invented by Rosser Reeves of Ted Bates & Company. Today the term is used in other fields or just casually to refer to any aspect of an object that differentiates it from similar objects.
Today, a number of businesses and corporations currently use USPs as a basis for their marketing campaigns.
In the early 1940s, Ted Bates & Company carried out extensive market research on successful advertising campaigns. In particular they identified two desirable attributes: the penetration and the usage pull.
The pattern they found among campaigns that produced a high usage pull was the basis for the theory of the USP. It may also be known as the unique selling point.
Some good current examples of products with a clear USP are:
Head & Shoulders: "You get rid of dandruff"
Olay: "You get younger-looking skin"
Red Bull: "Gives you wiiings"
Ronseal: "You get exactly what it says on the tin"
Some unique propositions that were pioneers when they were introduced:
Domino's Pizza: "You get fresh, hot pizza delivered to your door in 30 minutes or less -- or it's free."
FedEx: "When your package absolutely, positively has to get there overnight"
M&M's: "The milk chocolate melts in your mouth, not in your hand"
Wonder Bread: "Wonder Bread Helps Build Strong Bodies 12 Ways"
The perception of something being a USP is somewhat contentious. In the examples above, Head & Shoulders is not the only product on the market that will get rid of dandruff, neither is Domino's the only pizza delivery chain with a similar thirty-minute guarantee. In both instances, the specific product may be viewed to be a market leader due to its innovation of the original USP, yet has stopped being viewed as unique in the public eye. In other words, what was originally a USP has become merely a perception of superior quality, something quite different.
In the example of Ronseal, "[doing] exactly what it says on the tin" could be argued to not be a USP at all but merely a clever advertising slogan implying reliability or honesty; most or all products do what they imply they will on their packaging.
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Ronseal is the best advert , everyone uses that catchphrase . Oh and Should have gone to ? Clue = Dodgy glasses ? ;D
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Yes specsavers is what you couldn't remember but the example that most fits me is Dyson. The bagless vac is not a percieved benefit but a design innovation. This is what I use.
However David will no doubt have his own ideas.....
We will allow him some decisions (small ones obviously).
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Well I do Ewan.
The latest marketing thinking has to do with experience. (this is what the sainsbury's and marks and spencer adverts are based on).
Starbucks do not sell coffee they sell the experience of drinking it in the ambience of their establishment and clientel.
Harley Davidson do not sell motor bikes they sell a dream.
These are the best known examples but there are hundreds of others and it's the reason why a high end hairdressers can thrive when a cheap and cheerfull barbers shop may struggle.
To the degree that using my services makes customers somehow superior to the neighbours, while at the same time part of their community, and that the attractiveness of their home will be enhanced by me on an ongoing basis, i like to encourage this experience approach.Uniforms and a smart signwritten van help with this.
Much as I enjoy giving you tips on business basics Ewan try and stick to the proposed biz plan.Disagree, or suggest improvements to that. I am sure that David will have his own ideas, not necessarily the same as ours.I do have real uniqueness, based on the dyson model, and the experience factor but that's not what this is about.
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I am enjoying topic ;D Keep it going fellas 8)
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Uh-Oh!
A thread about window-cleaners complicating their business lives, and guess what, the thread becomes complicated.
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Uh-Oh!
A thread about window-cleaners complicating their business lives, and guess what, the thread becomes complicated.
LOL
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Phase Two
So now all you need is...
A van (signwritten, with a roofrack to take ladders and step ladders, a split charge relay)
A system- cleantech if you are doing it yourself
A leaflet
A website
A business plan with usp and mission statement
A name (your own) and some uniforms/workwear
Also some customers would be nice.....
You need to get on with it. It doesn't matter if you get some of it, or even quite a lot of it wrong, what is needed is action,
What's the budget?
WOW!! some very interesting reading.
Total investment: 10k (self funded)
I dont want to go into the 'ins and outs' of my model. Its incredibly boring! For the guys that havent done a model, its just a series of numbers, breakdowns, breakeven points, costs, return on investment figures and so on..
Chances are, you've already done one, and didnt even realise you were doing it!
I have already started to build systems into my model which may at first be redundant or appear frivolous for a start up -
On top of your list, I have added
1. Freephone number
2. P.O. Box number
3. Freepost account (get the money in quicker?) handy for future canvassing?
4. Mass Text System - I need to look into this further. My dentist uses this system. It automatically sends a text 48 hours then 24 hours before your appointment. He says its cut his 'no show' rate by 80% !!
5. Basic training (2 days with BWCA - 1day wfp, 1 day trad)
6. CRB checks (could be a handy usp/upb?)
7. VAT registration - to be confirmed by accountant whether its worthwhile at this stage.
My dad is a retired aerospace engineer and my uncle works for a small firm specialising in motorhome conversion/repairs. I have spoken to both of them and they had look at the DIY site. Their exact words - is that it? ...so I'll be going down the hot water, van mount self build route. I know, its very handy to have family sometimes!
USP/ UPB Now this is interesting. In my book, a USP (its literal meaning) wouldnt count for most of what has been mentioned. The first bank that did online banking would be a USP. It was 'unique'. Pilkington self clean glass - again, a true USP.
"M&M's dont melt in your hand but in your mouth" would be considered a 'strap line', 'Tag line' or 'memorable message'...."A Mars a day helps you work rest and play" would also be a good example. The American Police force - "To Protect and Serve" is also a good example. They get the message across the company want to portray even if that message isnt strictly true. How long could you hold an M&M before it eventually WOULD melt in your hand? ;) Do the police really protect you? Why are people still being murdered/robbed? How exactly does a Mars bar help you 'rest'?...you get the idea.
UPB seems more accurate for this discussion. wfp is neither unique to me or my company. I need to find 'perceived benefits' to use over my competition.
Heres a rough list I'm playing with at the moment for flyers/leaflets/website -
1. Hot wfp - the very latest technology blah blah blah..
2. wfp equipment - Your home will be cleaned using equipment designed for office blocks and commercial clients. You will get the same outstanding results from the same equipment we use for our commercial clients. We dont use a 'lesser model' to clean your home. You are just as important blah blah blah..
3. CRB checks - we take your security just as seriously as you do blah blah
4. H&S wfp - Apart from its outstanding results, we made this investment for your safety and that of your home. Your home is the largest purchase you'll ever make. We respect that and have blah blah blah..
5. Payment Options - For your convenience, we have several options for payment: Paypal, BACS, Cheque (Freepost), Nochex if you would like to pay using another blah blah blah...
6. Safe Contractor - after further reading, I have decided to go with this. I think it could be a handy selling tool. Has lots of connotations for trust, respectability, etc. even for domestic customers that dont require it, I think they may be reassured by it.... It also gives an air of size beyond what I am.
7. Staff training - Each member of the team has undergone rigorous training to ensure safe use of the equipment and to ensure you get a professional finish. We constantly strive to improve blah blah blah..
8. Public Liability - As you would expect from our company, we take our responsibilities very seriously blah blah blah..
9. Risk Assessment - more for commercial, but worth mentioning in more detail I feel.
10. H&S staff - We value every member of our team and their safety is paramount blah blah blah..
As you can see, there is nothing truly 'unique' in my list. It is more 'blowing my own trumpet' and theres no law against that! If the competition choose not to mention these things then thats up to them I suppose. No doubt other w/c will see it and think - He's not offering anything more than me!...but I told them and you didnt ;)
Business Name - Ooohhh, this is a hard one! I've got all sorts floating around. I just keep scribbling them down and then leave it for an hour or two then have another look at it. Here smoe words I've gathered up -
H20 (designer could have a filed day with that)
Aqua
Pure/Pura
Shine
Gleem
Morgan Slater (think thats obvious!)
Bright
Clean
...You get the idea.
I think Wally came up with something fabulous. Its short, to the point, VERY memorable! and the message is clear. I presume he is mainly domestic? His name has a homely warm feel to it, he's a member of the community - just perfect for a local market.
I've seen bigger firms make a complete hash of this and they spent millions !!
Flyers/leaflets - I've seen Wally's flyer and jaykie's (I think) is there any more floating about that I have overlooked?
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s there any more floating about that I have overlooked?
Yea, you forgot to mention you clean windows ;)
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s there any more floating about that I have overlooked?
Yea, you forgot to mention you clean windows ;)
True enough. But that should be covered in the business name really ;)
I hear what you're saying about complicating things, but in my experience if you want to get ahead you have to start as you mean to go on. If you're happy pushing a bike around with a pair of ladders strapped to the side wearing a pair of tracky bottoms and your sale pitch is - eeaar mate, want your windows done or what? then yes, this topic goes far beyond that :)
If on the other hand, you want to challenge Intial Services or OCS then maybe this topic is only scratching the surface.
There is the danger that complacency may leave you behind when it comes to the competition.
Wouldnt you agree?
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Essentially we all have to have some sort of plan, even if thats just wanting to clean shops and nothing else. But I also think theres no need to overly complicate things, we are simply in business/competition with other window-cleaners who are generally trying to earn a reasonable living. Most customers just want their windows cleaned, reliably, to a particular standard by a nice person who they feel isnt ripping them off and who they trust.
It isnt rocket science and nor are we trying to corner some sort of sector of the market. National branding isnt likely, none of us are going to have to stick our heads above the parapet and become limited companies.
Get out there, work well, work hard, advertise locally if you feel you wish to, do a good job, get recommended and its a self full-filling prophecy. Theres nothing magic or clever in becoming a self-employed window-cleaner, IMO it couldn't be easier.
Unless of course you need to have to put your head on the pillow at the end of the day knowing you earnt good money by brain-storming your way round your round instead of working your way round it.
Matt
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Essentially we all have to have some sort of plan, even if thats just wanting to clean shops and nothing else. But I also think theres no need to overly complicate things, we are simply in business/competition with other window-cleaners who are generally trying to earn a reasonable living. Most customers just want their windows cleaned, reliably, to a particular standard by a nice person who they feel isnt ripping them off and who they trust.
It isnt rocket science and nor are we trying to corner some sort of sector of the market. National branding isnt likely, none of us are going to have to stick our heads above the parapet and become limited companies.
Get out there, work well, work hard, advertise locally if you feel you wish to, do a good job, get recommended and its a self full-filling prophecy. Theres nothing magic or clever in becoming a self-employed window-cleaner, IMO it couldn't be easier.
Unless of course you need to have to put your head on the pillow at the end of the day knowing you earnt good money by brain-storming your way round your round instead of working your way round it.
Matt
I disagree with you, it takes a ceartain kind of person to be self employed if not then everyone would be. it is not any where near as easy as soon people make out on here employing staff is defo not as easy as sometimes made out please trust me on that I know because I do it.
another thing there are many type of window cleaner cheap port hole cleaners beer money cleaners again cheap most of the time, new starters thinking it is easy to clean windows straight away, more experienced window cleaner then the professional window cleaners that take pride in there work give a top service to there customers (not just cleaning windows) a host of other things that experienced and the later dont.
So there are levals in this business as in any other.
Ian
p.s I am just giving my view to many a post on this matter.
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Maybe Im taking something for granted here, but I certainly wasnt talking about beer money boys and the like.
I 'think' I give a very good service in my job, and yes it does take a particular type of person to be self-employed (maybe I was taking that for granted too) but to me it isnt hard/difficult and nor does it need to be overly analysed, its down to the individual and needs to be kept fairly simple. Thinking about work doesnt get the work done, doing the work does; after that its generally a self-fulling state of affairs that you'll find yourself in.
As for difficulties employing staff, that isnt something unique to our work, therefore its irrelevant to this particular thread, if you read the orignal post.
MATT
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Your own ideas were very good David, many I hadn't heard of before. You do have the big advantage of already being part of a successfull team.
Having said that a certain amount of humilation/humility on your part will be very necessary.
I accept what Mattb says, but what i find interesting is because of your previous if we can fast track you or not. I think we can because you are receptive to ideas.
usp/usb. I'm not going to waste too much time on this you either get it or you don't. You generally choose what you believe are the top two or three.To protect and serve is a mission statement by the way. Dyson broke the mould because he used a design change (bagless) as a usp (unique selling propostion) when strictly speaking this is not a benefit to the customer.
Some of your ideas are bolder than mine and out of my range. I use my home phone number only and this goes through call divert onto my mobile.
I can email you a couple of photos of a hot system that your dad will grasp easily. Be very wary of the other hot advice, but with a couple of pics your dad can make his own mind up.
If you go on the course you'll buy an ionics system.
Do you live in a house with a garden? I ask because this has a bearing on what set up you get. What I have is 1000l ibc behind my shed (but could be in the garage), fed by a 300gpd roman(plus DI) and a booster pump. There is a submersible pump in the IBC that takes the water via a thick transfer hose to my 650l van tank.
On the van all I have is a tank, a pump box (varistream and pump), a gas heater, and a reel.
The best pole to get is a 17'xtel glass fibre with a vikan mono with fan jets.
You can make your own decisions on these things, but what I have specced will cost about £3000. So you have £7000 left to spend on a van and all the other things. Even a roof rack costs £200.
Probably the first thing you need to get work is a leaflet. A good one will have a smiling picture of you in your uniform plus signwritten van, but you don't have any of these things yet.I had 10,000 a5 full colour both sides for £130.
Do you have a leaflet for your existing business? Molly maid do a sort of pamphlet which looks good. There is also A6 card.
I think you have to decide on a name.
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Maybe Im taking something for granted here, but I certainly wasnt talking about beer money boys and the like.
I 'think' I give a very good service in my job, and yes it does take a particular type of person to be self-employed (maybe I was taking that for granted too) but to me it isnt hard/difficult and nor does it need to be overly analysed, its down to the individual and needs to be kept fairly simple. Thinking about work doesnt get the work done, doing the work does; after that its generally a self-fulling state of affairs that you'll find yourself in.
As for difficulties employing staff, that isnt something unique to our work, therefore its irrelevant to this particular thread, if you read the orignal post.
MATT
Matt,
I dont think what you're saying holds water.
If I was to just 'get out there and do it' and wait for the business to grow you would end up limiting yourself the busier you got. You would reach a stage where (in between being a busy w/c) you would need to find time build systems that would take some of that workload off your back and 'retrain' customers in how you are going to be working in future ....why not do it before you start?
Surely finding ways for people to pay you rather than you going and getting the money increases you efficiency and leaves you more time to canvas/paperwork/get more work done?
Thinking of different ways to use technology that can help reduce your workload (George for instance) is a perfect example - I bet it would be a right old chore sitting down going through your book updating George with 500 names, addresses, account outstandings not to mention getting yourself (and anyone in your company) used to working with the new system.
People tend to be creatures of habit (and I'm as guilty of that as the next man) - Start as you mean to go on is my philosophy.
Do I want to be a window cleaner? NO!
Do I want a large profitable business cleaning windows? YES!
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Discount
how the hell is that set up costing 3k ??? ???
i dont know how much the gas heater is but 3k
as for the rest of it
like matt says just do it
christ if i can anyone can
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Well I do Ewan.
The latest marketing thinking has to do with experience. (this is what the sainsbury's and marks and spencer adverts are based on).
Starbucks do not sell coffee they sell the experience of drinking it in the ambience of their establishment and clientel.
Harley Davidson do not sell motor bikes they sell a dream.
These are the best known examples but there are hundreds of others and it's the reason why a high end hairdressers can thrive when a cheap and cheerfull barbers shop may struggle.
To the degree that using my services makes customers somehow superior to the neighbours, while at the same time part of their community, and that the attractiveness of their home will be enhanced by me on an ongoing basis, i like to encourage this experience approach.Uniforms and a smart signwritten van help with this.
Much as I enjoy giving you tips on business basics Ewan try and stick to the proposed biz plan.Disagree, or suggest improvements to that. I am sure that David will have his own ideas, not necessarily the same as ours.I do have real uniqueness, based on the dyson model, and the experience factor but that's not what this is about.
I believe that the key point of your post is about selling dreams. For some reason that always appears to work better. It's not always so easy to do with a more down to earth such as window cleaning but it can be done. I realise that I have even worded part of my self designed leaflet to cater for this part of human nature. Part of the wording informs the would be customer that they need never have the difficulty of seeking a new window cleaner in the future. For some people having that level of reliability along with a quality service is a dream. I know most people probably don't give a hoot who cleans their windows but for many customers, knowing that they can trust their window cleaner is of paramount importance.
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David I would say got for it,
reading some of the posts I see so many falls in what people are writting it is untrue, some you tell tell straight away they are new to this business other not so, I do think this post is Fantastic as anyone new or old can learn.
Just choose what you do take from it carefully as some of it is wrong IMO
Good luck in what ever you do it is a bumpy road but with good tyres it can work well ;)
Ian
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Phase Two
So now all you need is...
A van (signwritten, with a roofrack to take ladders and step ladders, a split charge relay)
A system- cleantech if you are doing it yourself
A leaflet
A website
A business plan with usp and mission statement
A name (your own) and some uniforms/workwear
Also some customers would be nice.....
You need to get on with it. It doesn't matter if you get some of it, or even quite a lot of it wrong, what is needed is action,
What's the budget?
WOW!! some very interesting reading.
Total investment: 10k (self funded)
I dont want to go into the 'ins and outs' of my model. Its incredibly boring! For the guys that havent done a model, its just a series of numbers, breakdowns, breakeven points, costs, return on investment figures and so on..
Chances are, you've already done one, and didnt even realise you were doing it!
I have already started to build systems into my model which may at first be redundant or appear frivolous for a start up -
On top of your list, I have added
1. Freephone number
2. P.O. Box number
3. Freepost account (get the money in quicker?) handy for future canvassing?
4. Mass Text System - I need to look into this further. My dentist uses this system. It automatically sends a text 48 hours then 24 hours before your appointment. He says its cut his 'no show' rate by 80% !!
5. Basic training (2 days with BWCA - 1day wfp, 1 day trad)
6. CRB checks (could be a handy usp/upb?)
7. VAT registration - to be confirmed by accountant whether its worthwhile at this stage.
My dad is a retired aerospace engineer and my uncle works for a small firm specialising in motorhome conversion/repairs. I have spoken to both of them and they had look at the DIY site. Their exact words - is that it? ...so I'll be going down the hot water, van mount self build route. I know, its very handy to have family sometimes!
USP/ UPB Now this is interesting. In my book, a USP (its literal meaning) wouldnt count for most of what has been mentioned. The first bank that did online banking would be a USP. It was 'unique'. Pilkington self clean glass - again, a true USP.
"M&M's dont melt in your hand but in your mouth" would be considered a 'strap line', 'Tag line' or 'memorable message'...."A Mars a day helps you work rest and play" would also be a good example. The American Police force - "To Protect and Serve" is also a good example. They get the message across the company want to portray even if that message isnt strictly true. How long could you hold an M&M before it eventually WOULD melt in your hand? ;) Do the police really protect you? Why are people still being murdered/robbed? How exactly does a Mars bar help you 'rest'?...you get the idea.
UPB seems more accurate for this discussion. wfp is neither unique to me or my company. I need to find 'perceived benefits' to use over my competition.
Heres a rough list I'm playing with at the moment for flyers/leaflets/website -
1. Hot wfp - the very latest technology blah blah blah..
2. wfp equipment - Your home will be cleaned using equipment designed for office blocks and commercial clients. You will get the same outstanding results from the same equipment we use for our commercial clients. We dont use a 'lesser model' to clean your home. You are just as important blah blah blah..
3. CRB checks - we take your security just as seriously as you do blah blah
4. H&S wfp - Apart from its outstanding results, we made this investment for your safety and that of your home. Your home is the largest purchase you'll ever make. We respect that and have blah blah blah..
5. Payment Options - For your convenience, we have several options for payment: Paypal, BACS, Cheque (Freepost), Nochex if you would like to pay using another blah blah blah...
6. Safe Contractor - after further reading, I have decided to go with this. I think it could be a handy selling tool. Has lots of connotations for trust, respectability, etc. even for domestic customers that dont require it, I think they may be reassured by it.... It also gives an air of size beyond what I am.
7. Staff training - Each member of the team has undergone rigorous training to ensure safe use of the equipment and to ensure you get a professional finish. We constantly strive to improve blah blah blah..
8. Public Liability - As you would expect from our company, we take our responsibilities very seriously blah blah blah..
9. Risk Assessment - more for commercial, but worth mentioning in more detail I feel.
10. H&S staff - We value every member of our team and their safety is paramount blah blah blah..
As you can see, there is nothing truly 'unique' in my list. It is more 'blowing my own trumpet' and theres no law against that! If the competition choose not to mention these things then thats up to them I suppose. No doubt other w/c will see it and think - He's not offering anything more than me!...but I told them and you didnt ;)
Business Name - Ooohhh, this is a hard one! I've got all sorts floating around. I just keep scribbling them down and then leave it for an hour or two then have another look at it. Here smoe words I've gathered up -
H20 (designer could have a filed day with that)
Aqua
Pure/Pura
Shine
Gleem
Morgan Slater (think thats obvious!)
Bright
Clean
...You get the idea.
I think Wally came up with something fabulous. Its short, to the point, VERY memorable! and the message is clear. I presume he is mainly domestic? His name has a homely warm feel to it, he's a member of the community - just perfect for a local market.
I've seen bigger firms make a complete hash of this and they spent millions !!
Flyers/leaflets - I've seen Wally's flyer and jaykie's (I think) is there any more floating about that I have overlooked?
Yes but can you clean the windows, thats all most customers want to know.
Its window cleaning not rocket science
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If I was to just 'get out there and do it' and wait for the business to grow you would end up limiting yourself the busier you got. You would reach a stage where (in between being a busy w/c) you would need to find time build systems that would take some of that workload off your back and 'retrain' customers in how you are going to be working in future ...why not do it before you start?
One very simple reason, because when you start you won't have a clue, and its only after youve learnt something that you'll be able to start gearing that particular part of your business correctly; and so it'll go on for most aspects in a business that need tweaking. Theres no way on this earth Id fork out and gear up for every eventuality from the word go, you'd have to be either insane or have very deep pockets; maybe both, and that would be very dangerous indeed.
Also, I didnt say 'just get out there and wait'
Yes but can you clean the windows, thats all most customers want to know.
Its window cleaning not rocket science
Precisely
Matt
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Lj Thorpe,
the gas heater costs £300, I estimated the rest but think it's about right.(I forgot to mention a leisure battery) If he gives cleantech a shopping list they can give him a price. Alex at gardiners can also give him a price.
Cheapness isn't always they key though, both Alex and Mike can be trusted and will get him out of a hole if he gets into one.
Remember Davo? Davo anyone? all those biz threads that led nowhere? I'm convinced this bloke can do it, and I might learn a thing or two watching him.If he does it better and a bit quicker than me will I be jealous? A bit.
But he's going to have to go some....
The truth is i've got to a certain point and I'm stuck. Some of his ideas I have never heard of before- and i'm a guy who knows everything- so what else has he got?
Dave st Ives, you're a really nice bloke, well respected and have a great business. But it's taken you years longer than it should have done to get where you are.This is true of many who post on this forum.
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Your own ideas were very good David, many I hadn't heard of before. You do have the big advantage of already being part of a successfull team.
Having said that a certain amount of humilation/humility on your part will be very necessary.
I accept what Mattb says, but what i find interesting is because of your previous if we can fast track you or not. I think we can because you are receptive to ideas.
usp/usb. I'm not going to waste too much time on this you either get it or you don't. You generally choose what you believe are the top two or three.To protect and serve is a mission statement by the way. Dyson broke the mould because he used a design change (bagless) as a usp (unique selling propostion) when strictly speaking this is not a benefit to the customer.
Some of your ideas are bolder than mine and out of my range. I use my home phone number only and this goes through call divert onto my mobile.
I can email you a couple of photos of a hot system that your dad will grasp easily. Be very wary of the other hot advice, but with a couple of pics your dad can make his own mind up.
If you go on the course you'll buy an ionics system.
Do you live in a house with a garden? I ask because this has a bearing on what set up you get. What I have is 1000l ibc behind my shed (but could be in the garage), fed by a 300gpd roman(plus DI) and a booster pump. There is a submersible pump in the IBC that takes the water via a thick transfer hose to my 650l van tank.
On the van all I have is a tank, a pump box (varistream and pump), a gas heater, and a reel.
The best pole to get is a 17'xtel glass fibre with a vikan mono with fan jets.
You can make your own decisions on these things, but what I have specced will cost about £3000. So you have £7000 left to spend on a van and all the other things. Even a roof rack costs £200.
Probably the first thing you need to get work is a leaflet. A good one will have a smiling picture of you in your uniform plus signwritten van, but you don't have any of these things yet.I had 10,000 a5 full colour both sides for £130.
Do you have a leaflet for your existing business? Molly maid do a sort of pamphlet which looks good. There is also A6 card.
I think you have to decide on a name.
In 'real life' I'm the nicest most polite person you could wish to meet :)
The Freephone number works in exactly the same way! you just divert it to your mobile or whatever number you choose. It will even play a tune and give customers an option list spoken by a professional - Press 1 for sales Press 2 for accounts etc.. ranges from £15 - £60 a month
P.O box is a couple of hundred a year and about £150 for Freepost
Who would you suggest for the training side? I want to get a feel for the equipment....I will not be buying ionics! ;D
I live in a house with a large garden so no trouble for storage (although I dont have a shed or garage) what about winter months? I've been reading up on freezing in the winter? worth getting a shed maybe?
I read you other post and was edging towards a larger tank in the van (maybe 800-1000Ltr) Obviously it doesnt have to be full from the outset, but it has capacity for growth. Thoughts?
Leaflets - I'm thinking of getting around this issue by using iStockphoto or a similar stock photo website. They can always be updated to incorporate uniforms (and my ugly mug) at a later date. As long as the basic 'theme' is retained I should be fine I think.
We dont currently use leaflets (very poor take up rates) She uses a very glossy A4 laminate magazine style pamphlet (a bit pricey but good for 'face to face' - NOT a mailshot).... We use a single loose sheet inside the final page for customer info (and it normally means she can bring the pack away for use on another customer).
I'd really appreciate those pictures.
slater445@googlemail.com
If its not a rude question, whats your name?
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clive i can do that set up for half that
two thirds even with new gear
JUST DO IT
its window cleaning
if you need to analyse it this much before you do it
THEN MAYBE YOU AINT CUT OUT FOR IT
if the glass is clean and the customer pays ....job done
all the other stuff fixes itself,unless you are a complete kretin
get out there and figure it out yourself
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Who would you suggest for the training side?
To start with, in all honesty, a ladder, a bucket, a roof-rack, a squeegee, a mop, scrim, step-ladder, scraper-blade, GG4, TFR and stamina.
Matt
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If I was to just 'get out there and do it' and wait for the business to grow you would end up limiting yourself the busier you got. You would reach a stage where (in between being a busy w/c) you would need to find time build systems that would take some of that workload off your back and 'retrain' customers in how you are going to be working in future ...why not do it before you start?
One very simple reason, because when you start you won't have a clue, and its only after youve learnt something that you'll be able to start gearing that particular part of your business correctly; and so it'll go on for most aspects in a business that need tweaking. Theres no way on this earth Id fork out and gear up for every eventuality from the word go, you'd have to be either insane or have very deep pockets; maybe both, and that would be very dangerous indeed.
Also, I didnt say 'just get out there and wait'
Yes but can you clean the windows, thats all most customers want to know.
Its window cleaning not rocket science
Precisely
Matt
Thats true Matt,
"All the gear and no idea" was a phrase my dad used a lot.
I dont know whether I've just not been able to get my message across properly or whether you're reading it wrong.
I am not for one moment suggesting I will go out and buy an Ionics Thermo and all the poles etc..
Some of the ideas may seem grand (or more likely I've wrapped them up in jargon and they come across as grand - I apologise) but they're very simple. The George system, The Freephone, The P.O. Box were all ideas I found on this site! (the Freepost was mine ;D).
I've just mixed them up a little bit and come out with something that I'd like input on. Not for one moment have I (or would I) tell you guys how to suck eggs. I have asked questions and got fantastic replies. I do tend to just hang around quietly in the background most of the time because I've been reading the boards going back two years!! Research costs nothing ;) I know nothing annoys more than people asking questions that have been asked a million times before!
So yes, I agree I need to learn how to trad and wfp but I still feel it will be prudent to start these systems from the get go. They are relatively cheap and apart from the George system all are rented on a monthly/annual basis for very little money.
-
Who would you suggest for the training side?
To start with, in all honesty, a ladder, a bucket, a roof-rack, a squeegee, a mop, scrim, step-ladder, scraper-blade, GG4, TFR and stamina.
Matt
well said that man ;D ;D
-
If I was to just 'get out there and do it' and wait for the business to grow you would end up limiting yourself the busier you got. You would reach a stage where (in between being a busy w/c) you would need to find time build systems that would take some of that workload off your back and 'retrain' customers in how you are going to be working in future ...why not do it before you start?
One very simple reason, because when you start you won't have a clue, and its only after youve learnt something that you'll be able to start gearing that particular part of your business correctly; and so it'll go on for most aspects in a business that need tweaking. Theres no way on this earth Id fork out and gear up for every eventuality from the word go, you'd have to be either insane or have very deep pockets; maybe both, and that would be very dangerous indeed.
Also, I didnt say 'just get out there and wait'
Yes but can you clean the windows, thats all most customers want to know.
Its window cleaning not rocket science
Precisely
Matt
Thats true Matt,
"All the gear and no idea" was a phrase my dad used a lot.
My dad's favourite was "Cut the cackle. Use the tackle" ;D
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Discount
Do you know about my business ?
For the first few years all my spare money went into doing my house up, as soon as I got serious my business growth was at least 60% a year.
Just let me know how far you get in ten years.
There are a few window cleaners local to me and I would confidently say my business turnover far exceeds anyone within a 20 mile radius.
In this day and age with wfp anyone can make a fortune , remember ts not always been like that, when i started we didnt have these ready made forums etc, my business started with a bucket and sponge and no prior knowledge of window cleaning.
You would be amazed at some of the knowledge i have gained over theyears and you wont get it off any forum.
Also let me know when you have picked up all the landmark buildings in your area, ie M&S, the largest hotels factorys etc , you dont pick them up over night, you usually have to wait until someone trips up especially in sunny Cornwall.
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My dad's favourite was "Cut the cackle. Use the tackle" ;D
I had a girlfriend used to say ;D
-
nice post dave
;D ;D
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"as soon as I got serious my business growth was at least 60% per year" Well he's serious now, and so am I. If you think about it basicaly you agree with me.
I haven't got commercial knowledge, you do, so what steps does he need to take?
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Phase Two
So now all you need is...
A van (signwritten, with a roofrack to take ladders and step ladders, a split charge relay)
A system- cleantech if you are doing it yourself
A leaflet
A website
A business plan with usp and mission statement
A name (your own) and some uniforms/workwear
Also some customers would be nice.....
You need to get on with it. It doesn't matter if you get some of it, or even quite a lot of it wrong, what is needed is action,
What's the budget?
WOW!! some very interesting reading.
Total investment: 10k (self funded)
I dont want to go into the 'ins and outs' of my model. Its incredibly boring! For the guys that havent done a model, its just a series of numbers, breakdowns, breakeven points, costs, return on investment figures and so on..
Chances are, you've already done one, and didnt even realise you were doing it!
I have already started to build systems into my model which may at first be redundant or appear frivolous for a start up -
On top of your list, I have added
1. Freephone number
2. P.O. Box number
3. Freepost account (get the money in quicker?) handy for future canvassing?
4. Mass Text System - I need to look into this further. My dentist uses this system. It automatically sends a text 48 hours then 24 hours before your appointment. He says its cut his 'no show' rate by 80% !!
5. Basic training (2 days with BWCA - 1day wfp, 1 day trad)
6. CRB checks (could be a handy usp/upb?)
7. VAT registration - to be confirmed by accountant whether its worthwhile at this stage.
My dad is a retired aerospace engineer and my uncle works for a small firm specialising in motorhome conversion/repairs. I have spoken to both of them and they had look at the DIY site. Their exact words - is that it? ...so I'll be going down the hot water, van mount self build route. I know, its very handy to have family sometimes!
USP/ UPB Now this is interesting. In my book, a USP (its literal meaning) wouldnt count for most of what has been mentioned. The first bank that did online banking would be a USP. It was 'unique'. Pilkington self clean glass - again, a true USP.
"M&M's dont melt in your hand but in your mouth" would be considered a 'strap line', 'Tag line' or 'memorable message'...."A Mars a day helps you work rest and play" would also be a good example. The American Police force - "To Protect and Serve" is also a good example. They get the message across the company want to portray even if that message isnt strictly true. How long could you hold an M&M before it eventually WOULD melt in your hand? ;) Do the police really protect you? Why are people still being murdered/robbed? How exactly does a Mars bar help you 'rest'?...you get the idea.
UPB seems more accurate for this discussion. wfp is neither unique to me or my company. I need to find 'perceived benefits' to use over my competition.
Heres a rough list I'm playing with at the moment for flyers/leaflets/website -
1. Hot wfp - the very latest technology blah blah blah..
2. wfp equipment - Your home will be cleaned using equipment designed for office blocks and commercial clients. You will get the same outstanding results from the same equipment we use for our commercial clients. We dont use a 'lesser model' to clean your home. You are just as important blah blah blah..
3. CRB checks - we take your security just as seriously as you do blah blah
4. H&S wfp - Apart from its outstanding results, we made this investment for your safety and that of your home. Your home is the largest purchase you'll ever make. We respect that and have blah blah blah..
5. Payment Options - For your convenience, we have several options for payment: Paypal, BACS, Cheque (Freepost), Nochex if you would like to pay using another blah blah blah...
6. Safe Contractor - after further reading, I have decided to go with this. I think it could be a handy selling tool. Has lots of connotations for trust, respectability, etc. even for domestic customers that dont require it, I think they may be reassured by it.... It also gives an air of size beyond what I am.
7. Staff training - Each member of the team has undergone rigorous training to ensure safe use of the equipment and to ensure you get a professional finish. We constantly strive to improve blah blah blah..
8. Public Liability - As you would expect from our company, we take our responsibilities very seriously blah blah blah..
9. Risk Assessment - more for commercial, but worth mentioning in more detail I feel.
10. H&S staff - We value every member of our team and their safety is paramount blah blah blah..
As you can see, there is nothing truly 'unique' in my list. It is more 'blowing my own trumpet' and theres no law against that! If the competition choose not to mention these things then thats up to them I suppose. No doubt other w/c will see it and think - He's not offering anything more than me!...but I told them and you didnt ;)
Business Name - Ooohhh, this is a hard one! I've got all sorts floating around. I just keep scribbling them down and then leave it for an hour or two then have another look at it. Here smoe words I've gathered up -
H20 (designer could have a filed day with that)
Aqua
Pure/Pura
Shine
Gleem
Morgan Slater (think thats obvious!)
Bright
Clean
...You get the idea.
I think Wally came up with something fabulous. Its short, to the point, VERY memorable! and the message is clear. I presume he is mainly domestic? His name has a homely warm feel to it, he's a member of the community - just perfect for a local market.
I've seen bigger firms make a complete hash of this and they spent millions !!
Flyers/leaflets - I've seen Wally's flyer and jaykie's (I think) is there any more floating about that I have overlooked?
Yes but can you clean the windows, thats all most customers want to know.
Its window cleaning not rocket science
And you grew your business 60% pa on that? I'm impressed ;D
Dave,
As you and I know full well, you didnt build you business 60% pa on that alone.
You had a plan. You chose what market you wanted. You beat your competition with better prices/service/relationship building/patience/persistence/other??
You actively sought out prospects. You worked hard and got results. That I understand and I take my hat off to your sir. Well done and congratulations. I want to follow in your footsteps...the question really should be, do YOU want me following in your footsteps? Your short post suggests otherwise.
I am new. I have no preconceived ideas. I dont pretend to know 'the best way' I have put my ideas out there for all to see and respect and appreciate constructive criticism.
I would genuinely like and appreciate your honest input.
Regards
David.
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A building with some cars outside?
-
Approximately £40 is what I'd charge for that customer. Maybe slightly lower depending on whats at the back and the location.
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David Slater
I listened , took the best advice and disgarded the rest, i rubbed shoulders with giants and listened to what they had to say.
Window cleaning can be taken as far as you want it, the biggest factor is WILL POWER, without it you have nothing.
A list of my window cleaning heroes.
Craig Mawlam#
Glyn Howard
David Woods
Trevor #knight #'
Frazer venters
Trev Perry
Andrew Cheney
I admire them all
All these and a few others whos names dont readily spring to mind have all helped my business although they may not have helped me directly, I have studied them all and watched how they operate.
There is no magic formula, no business plan just a positive can do attitude.
One guy who springs to mind was Frazer, he had no business plan apart from not saying no to anything and that helped his business grow organically, my business followed a similar model.
I dont consider my business to be anything special and still has a long way to go, i soon realised when i attended a meeting a long time ago and i realised i was small fry, one guy said he turned over £125'000 and he got a few snig gers "phw is that all" some one said , I thought better keep my gob shut as i felt innadequate, since that very day I had so much determination to succeed and thought if they can do it so can I.
I didnt have any plan only to keep increasing my turnover< I didnt undercut anyone, in fact quite the opposite i am dearer than my local competition , if they are charging £10 i want £15.
I think the biggest factor is if you are a good window cleaner or a not so good, the best will lose very little work and will always pick up work off sloppy window cleaners, recently I picked up a £400 job the previous guys were charging £260 who were appalling , the building holder said "well I suppose you get what you pay for"
Got to go now wife calling, will try to post more later
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Approximately £40 is what I'd charge for that customer. Maybe slightly lower depending on whats at the back and the location.
It would appear he's deleted his post
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I think the biggest factor is if you are a good window cleaner or not, the best will lose very little work and will always pick up work off sloppy window cleaners, recently I picked up a £400 job the previous guys were charging £260 who were appalling , the building holder said "well I suppose you get what you pay for"
Hmm, I get a warm feeling reading that.
A few months ago I was asked to price a job where the customer was dis-satisfied with her cleaner. She told me his price. It was £26.00. I looked round and told her no way could it be done for that money, and would therefore explain the sloppy standard of work the other guys were turning out. My price was £65.00. I think the attitude so far as the customer was concerned was they were prepared to pay 2.5 times what they'd previously been paying if it showed in the standard of work. They've not complained yet.
My business plan btw was'nt anything to do with UPS or whatever you guys have been calling it, it was confidence and self-belief.
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Cheers Tennant ;D I think you caught on, i'm going to bow out of this topic now. I thought Dave's stuff was quite good.
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Discount
Dont you bow out now, your input is much valued, it is nice to see how we all see it.
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Is it me or do my posts always bring out dissagreements in people ? My main point I was trying to make is this: . . . . . . . I think some people over analyse the window cleaning game ! I have spoken to dave on the phone and love reading his posts , He is succesful because he can do the job, is very confident , and does a lot of work others wont ! To me there is nothing better getting out there and talking to customers , being charming and backing it up with good service ! ;D