Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Sir Squeaky on May 06, 2008, 03:35:08 pm

Title: Bypass now fitted
Post by: Sir Squeaky on May 06, 2008, 03:35:08 pm
So I finally got the new Surflo working without it cycling too much...
I turneed the pressure switch in a bit.

New problem noticed, big one.

It seems MEGA powerful compared to the old pump, even though they are both 60psi.

I can't really turn the tap down enough, and then the pressure is blowing open all the connections and soaking me.
Even my hoselock connection to the reel is now leaking and getting the van wet. >:(

Is there a way to turn the output down?
This is why I went from a 100psi originally to a 60psi.

This one is more like 500psi. ???
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: Jon-scwindows on May 06, 2008, 03:44:58 pm
A pump speed controller would be useful. Try using a brass female hoselock fitting on the reel make sure its the ones with the metal ball bearings inside to hold it in place rather than plastic it wont leak. You can also unscrew the clamp that normally holds it to the hose and put a jubilee on instead. Jubilees for all other connections..
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: Sir Squeaky on May 06, 2008, 03:51:01 pm
A pump speed controller would be useful.
I never needed one before, how come I do now? ???
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: Ian Lancaster on May 06, 2008, 04:22:02 pm
Squeeky,

If you don't use a controller, you need a bypass back to the tank with a valve in it so you can direct the excess water back to the tank.
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: Roy Harding on May 06, 2008, 04:31:19 pm
Roger

Fit a bypass, all you need to do is, put a T piece each side of the pump. And a piece of hose from each of the T pieces, the cut the new piece of hose and put a flow control tap in the pipe.

roy
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: Alex Wingrove on May 06, 2008, 04:54:42 pm
because a flojet and a shurflo are different, should have stuck with the flojets, they dont need a flow controller when you use it with 6mm microbore,

Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: SherwoodCleaningSe on May 06, 2008, 05:40:19 pm
By the sounds of it the pressure switch is up too high.  To solve the problem you'll either have to.

Turn the pressure switch down.  This will solve the hoselocks popping off but may cause the pump to cycle when in use.

Fit a bypass valve.  The pump will be working all the time as soon as you switch it on.

Get a varistream.  These have annoying little habits of their own but if set up correctly will stop the pressure build up.  If the flowrate is a little high then you could get away with an ecoflow, but if not then the ecoflow will be no use as it works off of the pressure switch.

Fit something else after the pump to take up the extra pressure, like more hose or a DI vessel.  Bit pointless but works.

You could of course just find better fittings like O rings.  But you might need the flexibility of hose locks.

Simon.
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: Moderator David@stives on May 06, 2008, 05:46:55 pm
Rog

It is down to the flow rate , even though they are both 60 psi , one could deliver 2 ltrs a min and the other 6 ltres min.

You could eithe fit a bypass hose or get an electronic flow controller, which will give you variable speeds.
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: NWH on May 06, 2008, 05:49:54 pm
I wouldn`t mess about with T peices just buy a Eco-flo or Varistream.
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: Sir Squeaky on May 06, 2008, 05:54:33 pm
I wouldn`t mess about with T peices just buy a Eco-flo or Varistream.
It's not messing about when one is about a tenner and the other is over £100.

Got to do what I can afford.
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: NWH on May 06, 2008, 06:11:38 pm
I`m only thinking of you,you have complete control over your flo-rate with a flo controller.
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: Sir Squeaky on May 06, 2008, 06:18:32 pm
I`m only thinking of you,you have complete control over your flo-rate with a flo controller.
I can control my flow rate fine with the inline tap, that's how I've always done it.

I don't want to spend lots of money to do the same thing.

Can't the pump just be turned down?
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: NWH on May 06, 2008, 06:59:36 pm
Crikey Discount when are you going to fit that lot in your van,i couldn`t stand my van being as untidy as that lol. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: NWH on May 06, 2008, 07:50:57 pm
I thought it was a picture of your van after a crash lol. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: Clive McDonald on May 06, 2008, 08:02:22 pm
Alex sometimes has some brainiac answer to problems like this Squeaky so I guess he's your last chance. But from some of the other posts I don't think it's a problem that can be solved easily unless the pressure switch can be tweaked.

If it's any consolation I have three varistream and pumps and still get cycling etc at times.
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: Wayne Thomas on May 06, 2008, 09:02:52 pm
I've stopped using Shureflo pumps and switched back to a Flojet pump, (with the pressure switch left connected up on the pump) and connected to a variable setting flow controller with an on/off switch.
Varitech built it and I fitted it in my van. It regulates the pressure of the pump, whereas varistreams regulate the amperage. Much simpler and the flow is up to 7.6l a minute if I want.
I've more than enough water now and not a hope in hell of keeping up with it speedwise to clean windows unless I keep the flow turned down low.. My setting would normally be on between 12 noon and 1pm on the varistream, now I'm on 10 oclock with this new flow controller and that's plenty of water to keep up with.
It should be good for cladding work though with the setting turned up really high.
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: NWH on May 06, 2008, 09:13:49 pm
If i put my varistream on 1 o`clock it`s to much water,your setup is different to mine that`s for sure.I you using loads of hose or something.
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: Wayne Thomas on May 06, 2008, 09:17:00 pm
100m 8mm minibore. I don't like holding a pole any longer than I need to when it comes to cleaning windows otherwise it gets boring having to wait for water just to clean a window and I get impatient, lol
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: NWH on May 06, 2008, 09:19:01 pm
I use a good flo rate but on my system that would be to much water.
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: Wayne Thomas on May 06, 2008, 09:20:02 pm
I used 630 litres of water today and I wasn't wasting my water. Just cracking on cleaning windows, lots and lots of them.
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: Sir Squeaky on May 06, 2008, 09:25:21 pm
With flow like it is I'll run out by midday.
If not, the new leaks will take care of it!
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: Clive McDonald on May 06, 2008, 10:23:18 pm
 A varitech flow contoller?
Sounds like something I should have. How come they've never been mentioned before?
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: Wayne Thomas on May 06, 2008, 10:31:37 pm
A varitech flow contoller?
Sounds like something I should have. How come they've never been mentioned before?

They (Varitech) buy in the circuit boards and fit them inside connection boxes they have made up for them. I had to wait a couple days for them to wire one up for me. It's looking good so far (in comparison to a varistream and shureflow pump) much better, regular, non pulsing flow and more reliable.
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: alanwilson on May 06, 2008, 11:01:03 pm
squeeky just buy a varistream from Purefreedom - £75

Take an hour to set it up right and you'll notice a big difference.

Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: Sir Squeaky on May 07, 2008, 08:13:09 am
A varitech flow contoller?
Sounds like something I should have. How come they've never been mentioned before?

They (Varitech) buy in the circuit boards and fit them inside connection boxes they have made up for them. I had to wait a couple days for them to wire one up for me. It's looking good so far (in comparison to a varistream and shureflow pump) much better, regular, non pulsing flow and more reliable.
Does a varistream pulse then?
That sounds irritating.

Oh well, off to work, lets see if my connections make it through today!
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: alanwilson on May 07, 2008, 07:18:47 pm
a varistream shouldn't pulse - its not set up right if it does that.

we have about 90m or 95m of 6mm microbore on every reel, every reel is fed by a 100psi shurflo pump and digi varistream, we run the pumps all day on setting 2 or 3 (like a good flow), it never ever pulses, never fails, great setup.
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: Sir Squeaky on May 08, 2008, 05:23:55 pm
Is this correct?
I haven't had chance to try it yet, as the battery's on charge.

Quite neat for one of my DIY jobs!

Title: Re: Bypass now fitted
Post by: matt on May 08, 2008, 07:33:43 pm
thats it

a pic of mine on the DIY forum, you can view the pic

the only thing i would say, it turn the T on the out pipe to be like a T with the out pipe hitting the bottom of the T ( if you get what i mean ), pumps seem to prefere it that way

Title: Re: Bypass now fitted
Post by: matt on May 08, 2008, 07:35:56 pm
Xttp://img79.i.us/img79/2979/box4oy.jpg

change the X for a h
Title: Re: Bypass now fitted
Post by: matt on May 08, 2008, 07:37:38 pm
ive just checked mine, i used a Y
Title: Re: Bypass now fitted
Post by: Sir Squeaky on May 08, 2008, 08:04:40 pm
thats it

a pic of mine on the DIY forum, you can view the pic

the only thing i would say, it turn the T on the out pipe to be like a T with the out pipe hitting the bottom of the T ( if you get what i mean ), pumps seem to prefere it that way


Ok Matt, I'll do that.

Should work fine though?
Title: Re: Last pump question, honest!
Post by: windowwashers on May 08, 2008, 08:21:23 pm
Is this correct?
I haven't had chance to try it yet, as the battery's on charge.

Quite neat for one of my DIY jobs!


I have never ever seen a pump set up like this  :-\, I made a quick diy kit for a car till van was fixed, water in pump via strainer water out via hose, no problem at all.

Ian
Title: Re: Bypass now fitted
Post by: matt on May 08, 2008, 08:29:36 pm
thats it

a pic of mine on the DIY forum, you can view the pic

the only thing i would say, it turn the T on the out pipe to be like a T with the out pipe hitting the bottom of the T ( if you get what i mean ), pumps seem to prefere it that way


Ok Matt, I'll do that.

Should work fine though?

yes mate, it'll work fine anyways like it is, its under pressure anyway

the idea of having the T the other way is the flow is easier
Title: Re: Bypass now fitted
Post by: alanwilson on May 08, 2008, 09:57:50 pm
AAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!

SQUEEKY!  do you not realise why your other pump goosed itself?  You can control the pressure fine with an inline tap - who told you to do that?  your pump has been cycling from day one and you wonder why it has died after a few months??

Please mate for the love of all that is pure and honest, get a varistream, spend an hour to set it up right and thats it - job done, do the fandango.  I know you are finding it tough right now but you will save money in the not so long run if you do it right. 

canvass like the daddy tomorrow and get an extra £50 of work, then do the same on monday - varistream is now bought and paid for.

I really wish I lived nearer to you, I would gladly help you out for a day or two.
Title: Re: Bypass now fitted
Post by: Sir Squeaky on May 08, 2008, 10:03:21 pm
AAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!

SQUEEKY!  do you not realise why your other pump goosed itself?  You can control the pressure fine with an inline tap - who told you to do that?  your pump has been cycling from day one and you wonder why it has died after a few months??
My pump hasn't been cycling at all.
You're a mile off Alan!
Title: Re: Bypass now fitted
Post by: Ian_Giles on May 08, 2008, 10:30:19 pm
Squeaks is now sorted, but my own solution is to have your flow control between the tank and the pump, and not the pump and the pole hose.

The pump doesn't cycle at all and because it is on the negative pressure side  the pressure switch is never activated during use.

Been using this method for 15 months now, not a single problem.

and all it costs is a £3.50 inline tap.


Ian
Title: Re: Bypass now fitted
Post by: Justen Uff on May 08, 2008, 10:46:02 pm
Picture would be good Ian Giles because most is double dutch on this so far?
Title: Re: Bypass now fitted
Post by: matt on May 08, 2008, 11:13:03 pm
its easy when you know how

did you click on the link you added, as i doesnt work with the http changed to www

well it doesnt on my PC, though i wait to be corrected  ;)
Title: Re: Bypass now fitted
Post by: alanwilson on May 09, 2008, 12:06:02 am
squeeky if you have no electronic controller for your pump then it will run at max speed all the time - then when you throttle the flow the pressure will increase and activate the pressure switch, when the valve is partially open the switch will switch on and off quite fast.

I promise you your switch has burnt out because of this.
Title: Re: Bypass now fitted
Post by: Ian_Giles on May 09, 2008, 05:43:04 am
Picture would be good Ian Giles because most is double dutch on this so far?

I'll do a pic later if I've the time....

I have a cheap, plastic hoselock inline tap in  the hose that leads from my van tank to the pump, I have this set so that it gives me the flow I require for working.

This is in the negative pressure side of the pump, ie the pump is 'sucking' the water.

Everyone else has their flow control the other side of the pump, the positive pressure side, and unless you have an ecoflow or varistream setup you run the risk of burning out your pressure switch.

When I first decided to put my flow control in the hose leading from the van tank to the pump I was just keeping my fingers crossed it would work....well 15 months on it still is, so far as I am aware I'm the only person who does this...it just occurred to me at the time that it would be a good way to reduce the strain on the pump's pressure switch.
So far so good ;)
And it cost less than a fiver too ::)

Ian
Title: Re: Bypass now fitted
Post by: Sir Squeaky on May 09, 2008, 08:21:55 am
squeeky if you have no electronic controller for your pump then it will run at max speed all the time - then when you throttle the flow the pressure will increase and activate the pressure switch, when the valve is partially open the switch will switch on and off quite fast.

I promise you your switch has burnt out because of this.
That's never happened Alan. ???
My switch is fine, and it was fine on my last pump. ;D


Title: Re: Bypass now fitted
Post by: Tosh on May 09, 2008, 03:52:48 pm
Squeaks, get them ladders out, Mate; you never used to have any of these problems (as you used to regularly tell us) when you were doing it the 'trad way'.
Title: Re: Bypass now fitted
Post by: peter holley on May 09, 2008, 05:47:48 pm
i split my hose (the hose to the hose reel) and divert the flow back to the tank (the hose that diverts back to the tank has a flow controll tap) this keeps the flow continuouse, so the pressure switch isnt working overtime.... ;)