Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Dean Aspects on April 12, 2008, 09:35:58 am
-
Would this be any use to convert to a gutter vac
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190209808648&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009
Obviously the 80ltr one is the one i am looking at
Dean
-
thats the 1 that andy was going to use i belive
im sure he will along to let you know how it went
-
Not really powerful enough for anything above a bunglow.
Even the upkeeper uses a 5.5hp engine and that only goes up to 25ft.
You really need a 3 x 1200 similar to those sold by Gardiners or Dualpumps.
Regards
Mr H
-
So i would need one with a more powerful motor then??
Dean
-
You could buy a basic 3 x1200 watt from Dual Pumps or Gardeners the list price has risen in the last month due to the strength of the Euro to £505.00 or £514.00 + VAT depending on whether you want the 110 or the 240 model. THESE MODELS CAN ALSO BE BOUGHT FROM US and you wont need to wait as they are usually in stock.
You will then need to carry out a conversion to 51mm and will also require reinforced NON-KINK 51mm hose - not sold by Dual pumps or Gardeners you will then need a full set of tools to reach into the different depth and width gutters in various angles and sizes again not sold by Gardeners or Dual pumps you could then buy a carbon fibre pole from Gardeners which will wear out very quickly due to the debris such as fragments of broken roof tile , gravel etc. being sucked down the fragile carbon tubes (this has been tried and tested by Jeff Brimble who managed to wear away the inner of the tubes in under two hours use) . Or you could buy the complete system that has been tried, tested and improved over many years from Omnipole and telephone us for free advice or to a have a custom tool made for any specific job.
Andy Cheyney was on the phone to us Friday wanting to buy all the extra bits and pieces that cannot be sourced any where else, maybe he will save one or two hundred pounds when he has finaly got the system working and its only cost him hours of phone calls and weeks trying to get all the bits needed and then building it him self - how does this is savemoney he could have bought from us and been working and have paid for the kit many times over by now. Kevin Red has posted saying he has paid for his complete Omnipole guttervac/camera/gutterwash system more than 16 times over in the last six Months which is probably close to £70 to 80,000.
a 24' COMPLETE patent pending, free back up advice, network of operators to pass jobs to one another, Omnipole GutterVAC is only £1090.00 + VAT
Work out the cost of a carbon pole and a basic unconverted 3x1200 vac , complete with the wrong type of hose and no gutter tools from Gardeners!
http://www.omni-guttervac.com/Microsoft%20Word%20-%20GutterVac%20complete%20system%20price%20list.pdf
-
I never realised the GutterVAC was so cheap,.. maybe it was the Ionics one where the extremely high price stuck in my head!
Still,.. above 24' I reckon the SL2 is the tool of choice, and the cost of worn sections can be included when quoting for the job.
-
glyn....i,ve already got the powerpole from you is this what you use with your omnivac or has the pole been modified?
-
Hi
The original guttervac used our standard powerpole with some extra fittings so the vac hose ran down the outside of the the powerpole. The new guttervac uses large bore aerospace alloy tubes and the vac hose connects to the pole base.
To answer your question a powerpole can be used but it is heavier.
Hi Natanael
How can you price a compete new SL2 for every guttervac job you do. That would be insane. Each job is going to cost you £500 or £600 in new tubes.
-
hi glyn-i was wondering what the powerwasher is used for-would the guttervac would do the job 100% on its own without the need for a powerwasher
-
also could you email me some details on the finance at 5.73 per week-how many years is it over/interest/etc and a price on delivery to northern ireland
-
You could buy a basic 3 x1200 watt from Dual Pumps or Gardeners the list price has risen in the last month due to the strength of the Euro to £505.00 or £514.00 + VAT depending on whether you want the 110 or the 240 model. THESE MODELS CAN ALSO BE BOUGHT FROM US and you wont need to wait as they are usually in stock.
You will then need to carry out a conversion to 51mm and will also require reinforced NON-KINK 51mm hose - not sold by Dual pumps or Gardeners you will then need a full set of tools to reach into the different depth and width gutters in various angles and sizes again not sold by Gardeners or Dual pumps you could then buy a carbon fibre pole from Gardeners which will wear out very quickly due to the debris such as fragments of broken roof tile , gravel etc. being sucked down the fragile carbon tubes (this has been tried and tested by Jeff Brimble who managed to wear away the inner of the tubes in under two hours use) . Or you could buy the complete system that has been tried, tested and improved over many years from Omnipole and telephone us for free advice or to a have a custom tool made for any specific job.
Andy Cheyney was on the phone to us Friday wanting to buy all the extra bits and pieces that cannot be sourced any where else, maybe he will save one or two hundred pounds when he has finaly got the system working and its only cost him hours of phone calls and weeks trying to get all the bits needed and then building it him self - how does this is savemoney he could have bought from us and been working and have paid for the kit many times over by now. Kevin Red has posted saying he has paid for his complete Omnipole guttervac/camera/gutterwash system more than 16 times over in the last six Months which is probably close to £70 to 80,000.
a 24' COMPLETE patent pending, free back up advice, network of operators to pass jobs to one another, Omnipole GutterVAC is only £1090.00 + VAT
Work out the cost of a carbon pole and a basic unconverted 3x1200 vac , complete with the wrong type of hose and no gutter tools from Gardeners!
http://www.omni-guttervac.com/Microsoft%20Word%20-%20GutterVac%20complete%20system%20price%20list.pdf
Whilst we do not promote or recommend the use of the SL2 as a guttervac, there are several of our clients who have very successfully been using them as such for quite a while now.
While I'm at it I'll clarify a couple of points in your post Glyn -we do actually sell 51 mm reinforced hose, (which I'm sure is not identical to yours) and the wear rate has not been tested on an SL2 by Jeff has it, or am I mistaken? The person to ask about real world wear rates is Mr H as he has used his converted SL2 on many gutter jobs now and I do not believe he has had to factor in a replacement pole for each job, if he has he certainly hasn't bought them from us!
-
Either of the systems may be used for cleaning gutters on their own, but ideally they are used for different aspects of cleaning:-
The Power washer can be used to blast out blocked down pipes and throughly wash the gutters inside and out to make them thoroughly clean and also to clean soffits,weather boards etc. this system can also be used to clean high level brick work, stone and carry out high level paint and graffiti removal ( with chemicals) as well as some types of cladding, and roofing materials.
The Vac is used mostlly to remove large build ups of soil, broken roof tiles, grit, gravel and self seeded saplings such as sycamore or budlea.
For very impacted dirt or rooted plants in the gutter firstly the PowerPole with a gutter spike attachement in place is used to break up the earth etc. then the guttervac is used to vac everthing out.
-
Alex
The hose shown on your site is black standard 51mm vac hose this hose was found to kink and this is not the hose we supply.
We supply lightweight reinforced silver hose that will not kink.
Jeff posted photographs of a carbon pole I thought it was an SL2 but could be mistaken, however their is no denying that an aluminium tube designed to be used for gutter cleaning will outlast any brand of carbon fibre poles by years.
-
We have had both the grey and black types of hose in stock and have found not much difference between the two. I suppose it all depends on the exact manufacturer used for each one. The carbon poles that Jeff tested were not the SL2 as he has only ever briefly held an SL2. I would agree with you that a carbon fibre tube is not going to withstand the same level of abuse as aluminium tubing -it's back to the old durability versus weight versus adaptability issue. Personally, whenever I have a high level commercial gutter cleaning job I still call in the cherry pickers! :)
-
Personally, whenever I have a high level commercial gutter cleaning job I still call in the cherry pickers!
Of course this is true our biggest customer turns over £20,000,000 a year cleaning and maintaining gutters nationwide and run their own large fleet of cherry pickers but they have the option of choosing our the Guttervac system or cherry pickers depending on the job.
Their is a very big difference in using the black hose and the silver hose - the black hose is easily crushed and tangles the silver doesnt. The silver hose is also much lighter.
-
Personally, whenever I have a high level commercial gutter cleaning job I still call in the cherry pickers!
Their is a very big difference in using the black hose and the silver hose - the black hose is easily crushed and tangles the silver doesnt. The silver hose is also much lighter.
Our black hose is not easily crushed, perhaps the hose you used originally was different to ours. The black hose on our web-site is not standard plastic vacuum hose, but is industrial vacuum hose, which is well able to withstand being crushed.
-
The black hose I am refering too is the type supplied by Dual Pumps which I can only presume is who you purchasse it from, along with their Vacuum cleaner.
-
The black hose I am refering too is the type supplied by Dual Pumps which I can only presume is who you purchasse it from, along with their Vacuum cleaner.
No we do not source the hose from Dual Pumps, as the hose that they supply is as you say not really good enough for the job. We source ours from a different wholesale supplier.
-
You could buy a basic 3 x1200 watt from Dual Pumps or Gardeners the list price has risen in the last month due to the strength of the Euro to £505.00 or £514.00 + VAT depending on whether you want the 110 or the 240 model. THESE MODELS CAN ALSO BE BOUGHT FROM US and you wont need to wait as they are usually in stock.
You will then need to carry out a conversion to 51mm and will also require reinforced NON-KINK 51mm hose - not sold by Dual pumps or Gardeners you will then need a full set of tools to reach into the different depth and width gutters in various angles and sizes again not sold by Gardeners or Dual pumps you could then buy a carbon fibre pole from Gardeners which will wear out very quickly due to the debris such as fragments of broken roof tile , gravel etc. being sucked down the fragile carbon tubes (this has been tried and tested by Jeff Brimble who managed to wear away the inner of the tubes in under two hours use) . Or you could buy the complete system that has been tried, tested and improved over many years from Omnipole and telephone us for free advice or to a have a custom tool made for any specific job.
Andy Cheyney was on the phone to us Friday wanting to buy all the extra bits and pieces that cannot be sourced any where else, maybe he will save one or two hundred pounds when he has finaly got the system working and its only cost him hours of phone calls and weeks trying to get all the bits needed and then building it him self - how does this is savemoney he could have bought from us and been working and have paid for the kit many times over by now. Kevin Red has posted saying he has paid for his complete Omnipole guttervac/camera/gutterwash system more than 16 times over in the last six Months which is probably close to £70 to 80,000.
a 24' COMPLETE patent pending, free back up advice, network of operators to pass jobs to one another, Omnipole GutterVAC is only £1090.00 + VAT
Work out the cost of a carbon pole and a basic unconverted 3x1200 vac , complete with the wrong type of hose and no gutter tools from Gardeners!
http://www.omni-guttervac.com/Microsoft%20Word%20-%20GutterVac%20complete%20system%20price%20list.pdf
Can I first state for the record that I have NEVER tried to put the Omnipole Gutter-vac system down.
The other thing I want to say is that the Jeff test was done with a short length of Carbonfibre fishing pole using only sharp grit, it was horizontal and in Jeff's words "Probable compounded the wear by a factor of 100."
The other week I was able to use both my diy gutter-vacuum and an Omnipole Gutter-vac. The Omniopole definatly looks the part and does a good job to. Although the hose to vac manifold could have done this being black or chrome. The Omnipole also has ready made connectors to help clean the gutters out. It was also quicker at doing the gutters but some of this extra speed would be down to a more experienced operator and my diy system still needing some "tweeks". I have NEVER tried to say the Omnipole system is not a ood system. All I have done is tried to show people how they can get MORE use out of a high reaching lightweight carbonfibre pole that otherwise might be sat in the garage for weeks inbetween window cleans.
For buildings up to 2 storeys then the Omnipole is brilliant but above that it does start to feel heavy and take it out of your sholders. The Omnipole site recommends a 2 man operation including a supporting pole for heights above 36ft. The diy SL2 system using Carbonfibre can still be used by 1 man uto 60ft and thats when it really comes into its own. If some one is using a gutter system on a very regular basis on standard houses then they would be looking for a dedicated system and the Omnipole system is the best for that. It also knocks the socks off the overpriced, non UK gutter compatable (Ionic salesmans words not mine) Upkeeper.
But if you want to utilise a pole you may already be thinking of buying or need to go higher for longer, then a strong Carbonfibre system will then prove better.
My DIY system has been used for a few months now and actually shows no signs of wear on the inside or on the joins. Time will tell as to when I will need to start buying new sections. I certainly don't factor in a new pole for every job although a recent job I did paid for my entire system nearly 4 times over as I could go where scaffolding would have cost a fortune and cherry pickers could not go. I was actually half the price of using scaffolding / cherry pickers and was finished in a day compared to a day just to put up the scaffolding.
I'm actually surprised that you haven't tried a strength test yourself Glynn using the Emporium poles to enable higher 1 man use of your system. Nor do you have the gutter attachments advertised seperately on your site for those that might want to purchase them but not the gutter-vac. It would still be sales in the till..!!
So its a case of horses for courses.
There are many things the Omnipole gutter cleaning system can do that the DIY system can't and things the diy system can do that the Omniopole system can't........
Either way. In my limited opinion they both do their job better that any other gutter cleaning system currently on the market....... If I had the space, the money and Glyn sold the gutter-vac pole seperatly, I would consider having both..!!!!
Regards
Mr H
-
Just been round my town and 90% of the potential gutter work is below 26ft. Having experimented using sharp gravel http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=52461.0 I have decided to upgrade my diy system (Map fishing pole extensions June 2007) to Omni for all work below 26-30ft.
I was impressed by the engineering of Glyns system and paticulary the 50mm Alu sections, at Windex and liked the head tools he has developed.
For the other 10% I will risk a couple of c/f extension on the top for the limited use they will have.
-
FAO: Glyn (Omnipole)
Hi Glyn,
As you may be aware, I was considering wether to buy your Omnipole gutter vac system or Ionics Upkeeper system. In the end I decided to go for the Upkeeper because it's petrol, (work anywhere, anytime without being restricted to relying on plugging in to a customer's home electricity supply or storing a generator in the back of the van as well as the gutter vacuum).
I know you sell the camera & MP4 recorder in a silver hard briefcase kit for surveying gutters. Can you email me the price of the camera kit with the MP4 with a wide angle lens to easycleanwayne@msn.com.
Do you have a fitting kit for the camera to be mounted on an Ionics Upkeeper. If not, I still have my Omnipole pressure washing pole to mount the camera on.
-
Maybe you need both systems, one of jobs has to be accessed from inside and a petrol vac inside an office would be a no no.
-
Maybe you need both systems, one of jobs has to be accessed from inside and a petrol vac inside an office would be a no no.
Sorry Jeff, I don't follow you, are you on about working in court yards.
-
I've got the Gutter Keeper and use a camera from Maplins, much cheaper than Omnipoles.
It's interesting to see suppliers 'promoting' their different systems although I don't see Ionics on here doing the same.....oh but they were banned for doing that were'nt they ???
-
Yes Wayne an iner courtyard with no external access ! at all ! so elecy vac in office and ladders through windows & hoses outside, maybe also for the occasional flat roof job. But you could hire a vac for that.
-
Would this be any use to convert to a gutter vac
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190209808648&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009
Obviously the 80ltr one is the one i am looking at
Dean
Hi Dean, the motor doesn't have the power to be able to do the job
I would advice to be at least above 2000W to be able to clean out gutter up to 15 to 20ft
Above that you going to need a 3000W motor or higher, to be able to do commercial buildings, and that is where the good money is
The one I purchaesd some weeks ago, is back in stock http://www.easterntrading.co.uk/shop/shop.php?action=full&id=5
If you go with the above or any 3600W vacuum cleaner the tank will be large 80lts and can be a pain moving around of residential properties because the motor is heave and so will be the tank when full, so 15meters of 51mm hose is a must
As Glyn has said building your own Gutter Vacuum System, can be time consuming and the margins between omnigutter and DIY can be small, I have been luck and only spent today 240 pounds (right place right time) on a 3000W & 51mm hose
My next purchase will need some sort of tuping to get up to the gutter! omnipole have told me they would indeed sell me there tubing and attachments for 425 pounds, a aplord them for changing there minds, but at that price I might as well got there system in the first place and no way as light as a SL2
So I spoke with Gardens about the SL2 but was out of stock to next month! I rang http://www.emporiumpoles.co.uk/ and they said...to use carbon fibre to vacuum out gutters is going to damage the inside of the pole and coarse splits and cracks because of the stones and debris that come from the gutters
I put this to a SL2 gutter cleaning user and his words was...
Emporium are correct....... BUT.... The SL2 is a better quality pole. I have used my SL2 on many occasions now for gutter cleaning. on 1 school job is was used to vacuum up large mounds of soil, slate, stones, cutlery, toy cars, pieces of wood and even a few leaves. The SL2 was used for server hrs sucking up that sort of waste and still owe now sign of wear on the joints. I spray the connections and into the interior of the pipe with "Teflon" spray from Strauss-direct.co.uk and I feel this helps to protect it. Also most of the debris will be in free fall inside the tube and so it will not cause a lot of damage as it is bouncing off the sides and not rolling or being dragged along the inside if you had it flat on the floor.
Jeff did do a test to destruction on a short piece of CF tube which was horizontal and only sucking grit. I think it took him nearly an hr of constant use before it started to crack. The tube he used was not as strong as Gardner's and he told me he recons it multiplied the effect by 100 fold by having it horizontal all the time. The SL2 sections are around £55 each to replace but this should be factored in to your cost anyway. To me the main advantages of using as SL2 for gutter cleaning is the weight saving, the height it can go to and the fact that it is utilizing a WFP pole that might other wise spend a lot of time just in the back of the van not being used so therefore a saving in equipment costs. Just 1 or 2good high jobs that would normally take a cherry picker to do could be done with an SL2 gutter cleaner and have paid for the whole system. Remember the higher you go the more you charge but the cheaper it is for the customer. A job that might involve cherry pickers and scaffolding might cost the company £4k - £5k and take a week to do with moving scaffolding, around etc. But you could do the same job in just 1 - 2 days and charge £2k.... So a win win situation for everyone except the cherry picker and scaffolding companies...
I am happy with this answer and will be waiting for the SL2 to come back in stock
My advice to all suppliers and manufacturers, this part of our industry is only just beginning! and if you build a carbon module pole (lightest pole for the job) that has the inner wall built to last (maybe Kevlar) then its only going to be a win win situation for everyone
-
My advice to all suppliers and manufacturers, this part of our industry is only just beginning! and if you build a carbon module pole (lightest pole for the job) that has the inner wall built to last (maybe Kevlar) then its only going to be a win win situation for everyone
An interesting thought.
Just finished a large gutter cleaning job today on an 3/4 storey apartment block. Did it all from a 60ft cherry picker - got to be the easiest way in my opinion :D
-
Emporium are correct....... BUT.... The SL2 is a better quality pole
This statement is completly incorrect for the following reasons:-
Carbon fibre poles are designed to be thin walled but no carbon fibre pole is completly carbon fibre they all have a resin + glass fibre content to give them strength. The thinner the wall the less fibreglass and resin content and therefore the lighter the tube... therefore the SL2 has probably more glassfibre and Resin content than the Emporium which is lighter, this means in actual fact the Emporium is more likly the better quality pole.
Secondly Carbon fibre is designed for lightness and not for impact, in fact the worst thing you can do to a carbon fibre pole is put it into a situation where impact is likely their must be many of this forum that have seen or heard of carbon fibre poles shattering through impact.
Thirdly If carbon fibre was a suitable material to be used for vac tubes then manufacturers of vacuum cleaners would have adopted it .
Fourthly the dust given off from carbon fibre/glass fibre being abraded is a health risk and I believe you will be acting neglegently if these tubes are used for vacuuming - if you make the foolish choice of using these tubes then at the very least a resporator should be worn.
-
GLYN H
Im looking at ordering a omnipole cutter vac tomo but i would like to ask why is ur system alot cheaper than ionics? im going to go for the 36' system and maybe add the camera on as well.
-
My advice to all suppliers and manufacturers, this part of our industry is only just beginning! and if you build a carbon module pole (lightest pole for the job) that has the inner wall built to last (maybe Kevlar) then its only going to be a win win situation for everyone
An interesting thought.
Just finished a large gutter cleaning job today on an 3/4 storey apartment block. Did it all from a 60ft cherry picker - got to be the easiest way in my opinion :D
Cost would be a big factor! most commercial sites are aware of H&S (&costs) so if you was to us a MEWP then your going to need a IPAF licence, day course 200 pounds, then your need to buy a saftey harness and lanyards 100 pounds and then there cost of hiring MEWP as well 300 / 400 pounds day rate
Then your get Mr. H come along and under cut you :D
-
Emporium are correct....... BUT.... The SL2 is a better quality pole
This statement is completly incorrect for the following reasons:-
Carbon fibre poles are designed to be thin walled but no carbon fibre pole is completly carbon fibre they all have a resin + glass fibre content to give them strength. The thinner the wall the less fibreglass and resin content and therefore the lighter the tube... therefore the SL2 has probably more glassfibre and Resin content than the Emporium which is lighter, this means in actual fact the Emporium is more likly the better quality pole.
This is a completely un-substantiated comment Glyn. I realise that you now have a vested interest in Emporium poles so will be keen in defending them, but to make a statement as above which has no factual backing is not very wise. Having examined and used both poles extensively, I am confident in my opinion that the SL2 is of a much greater build quality than the Emporium (much to my relief, as if it were the other way around I would have had to re-engineer the design of the SL2 :))
We do have an Emporiuim pole in our ownership and various experienced pole users have been able to easily draw conclusions about the poles comparative build quality. We have also undertaken a rigidity test on the pole compared against the SL2. We will be re-creating this soon with photographs.
-
I sat under our patio roof because it was raining hoovering gravel for 1 1/2 hours doing the destruction test. It was boring noisy and dust from the gravel was being expelled by the vac 10ft away from me. I washed and wetted the gravel half way through to make it similar to gutter slurry, but the dust still came out of the vac.
It was only the day after when I realised that the c/f content that had been removed from the inside of the shotblasted pole,was part of the "dust" from the wet vac exhaust that I had inhaled for 90 min. It frightened me rigid because I usually try to be careful what I do. Hopefully no damage was done - or was it ? ??? ??? ???
Thats one other reason why I ordered Glynns Vac equipment today rather than use the C/F sections of which I have plenty of.
-
Alex
My statement is totally factual.
It is most suprising that you were not aware that carbon fibre poles also contains a percentage of glass fibre and epoxy resin filler and that the heavier the pole the more glass fibre and resin content and it then follows a pole with more fibre glass is cheaper to produce.
-
Hi Crystal Clear
Ionics Upkeeper is a petrol powered machine that is built in the USA by Upkeeper and imported into the UK to be sold by Ionics so their costs are greater.
The machines are also completly different in construction and design our being a more traditional vac in apperance and the upkeeper being based on a leaf sweeping grounds maintenance machine.
-
Alex
My statement is totally factual.
It is most suprising that you were not aware that carbon fibre poles also contains a percentage of glass fibre and epoxy resin filler and that the heavier the pole the more glass fibre and resin content and it then follows a pole with more fibre glass is cheaper to produce.
Glyn - I am well aware of the content of carbon fibre poles. Having designed two poles from the ground up, using carbon fibre and composite materials, we are fairly well aware of the make up and technology behind a section of carbon fibre tube. The carbon fibre technology in both of our latest poles we feel is some of the most advanced carbon fibre technology available in the world. Some of the sections on the SL2 are not pure carbon fibre but have other composite materials in their make up. This has been specifically designed this way to provide superior strength and knock resistance where it really counts.
My comments about you being less than factual were to do with your blanket statement that the Emporium poles were better quality than the SL2.
-
The carbon fibre technology in both of our latest poles we feel is some of the most advanced carbon fibre technology available in the world
If this is even partually correct then you are missing out on literally billions of pounds in sales in the aerospace industry. I feel you should fully research the Health and Safety aspects of the use of carbon fibre poles in vacuming situations.
• Global sales of carbon fibre reinforced plastics
(CFRPs) are estimated to be $9.9 billion in 2006, rising
to $13.6 billion by 2010. By 2025, global sales of
CFRPs will be over $25 billion a year
• The global demand for carbon fibre tow in 2006 is
estimated to be 27,000 tonnes, and will rise to 34,000
tonnes by 2010
• The global end-use demand for carbon fibre (in 2006)
is aerospace/defence 28%, industrial 50% (including
infrastructure, wind power and oil and gas) and sports
goods 22%
• Europe now accounts for 30% of the world consumption
of carbon fibre tow, with North America at 35%,
Japan at 15% and the rest of the world at 20%
• Carbon fibre manufacturers will invest $820 million
between 2005 and 2008 to increase carbon fibre
capacity by 78%
• The two major aircraft manufacturers – Airbus and
Boeing – are forecast to account for 15-20% of the
worldwide small tow carbon fibre usage by 2010
• Worldwide, small tow carbon fibre capacity is forecast
to increase from 29,750 tonnes in 2006 to 40,600
tonnes by 2008, a huge increase of 36%. By 2008,
Japan will produce 46% of the world’s small tow
carbon fibre, USA will produce 28%, Europe 19% and
the rest of the world 7%.
• The global capacity for large tow carbon fibre will
increase from 10,300 tonnes in 2006 to 18,800 tonnes
by 2010
• Pitch-based carbon fibre capacity will increase from
1,380 tonnes in 2006 to 2,480 tonnes by 2010
-
Emporium are correct....... BUT.... The SL2 is a better quality pole
I realise that you now have a vested interest in Emporium poles so will be keen in defending them,
What interest does Glyn have in emporium exactly???
I've been reading this thread with interest for a while now,... and feel its time to jump in with my very own bitchy remark!
The difference in attitudes from certain participants here are huge!
Glyn, you seem to be putting every idea down with blanket remarks and extreme negativity, and don't appear to have taken the time to even consider the possibility of carbon fibre poles being a viable alternative, now or in the future?
Alex, while defending your product as is only right, you have managed to keep your remarks positive and helpful,.. something I've always appreciated and enjoyed about your posts.
If the same attitudes are applied to after sales service (and I'm not saying/implying that they do!),... I know where I'd buy from.
I cleaned some gutters today,.. and as has been the case with nearly every gutter I've cleaned, the debris were mostly moss, leaves, soil etc etc,.... soft & non-abrasive. Also it's normally wet,.. water is a natural lubricant and what little "toxic carbon fibre dust" is produced would be suppressed by the moisture. Besides, any good quality vac would have a filter to stop dust escaping wouldn't it?
-
Nathanael
My negativity is based on nine/ten years experiance of carbon fibre and fibre glass tubes, up until two years ago we both assembled and built both fibre glass and carbon fibre poles, I dont believe Alex has ever been involved in this work as his poles are supplied ready made.
Cutting and repairing either material is hazardous and extraction equipment is an HSE essentual to remove the airbourne dust from the work place. If you have ever used a worn fibreglass tube then you will have felt the effect on your hands just imagine what that dust is doing to your lungs.
-
I would rather pay the extra and use equipment that has been tried and tested knowing that my health is not in jeopardy. You can't put a price on health.
Whilst Glyn may come across as having a negative mannerism, he has our health interests at heart.
It's all very well experimenting with DIY poles, brush heads and gutter vac systems to save a few pounds but the majority of people will probably end up paying far more after having experimented with alternatives and have spent a lot of time and frustration trying to achieve their main aim of trying to save money.
Window cleaning using WFP is a good earner so I would rather use my time more economically by cleaning windows then fluffing around experimenting with DIY job lots to pay for equipment that someone else has tried & tested for my/our benefits.
-
There is defintely a 'Gardiner Pole Worship' on this forum. All other suppliers get slated, no wonder you don't hear from Ionics and others. In fact, you could say that this forum serves Gardniers more than it does express cleaning!
-
The carbon fibre technology in both of our latest poles we feel is some of the most advanced carbon fibre technology available in the world
If this is even partually correct then you are missing out on literally billions of pounds in sales in the aerospace industry. I feel you should fully research the Health and Safety aspects of the use of carbon fibre poles in vacuming situations.
Glyn,
If I was interested in promoting the SL2 for vacuuming gutters then I might research it, but as I have repeatedly stated we are not interested in using the SL2 for vacuuming gutters.
One or two of our clients have managed to very cheaply get a dual usage from their current SL2, which is their perogative. Due to the number of requests we have had we are now supplying industrial vacuums, which several clients have bought for various purposes, not just gutters.
I personally agree with all the comments to do with wear and tear and if these poles were to be used for everyday commercial vacuuming then of course they would not last as long as an aluminium tube. I do not think that anyone is arguing with you on this point. Interestingly aluminium dust actually has more proven health implications than carbon.
I would not dream of pretending that we are leading the field in CF usage. We are simply borrowing from the technology developed by the Aerospace industry.
Nathanael
I dont believe Alex has ever been involved in this work as his poles are supplied ready made.
Once again Glyn a sweeping statement that has no factual basis, you 'believe' that I have never been involved in making/assembling carbon fibre and glass fibre poles. Wrong!
Those in our firm that deal with aspects of pole construction would be most surprised by your comments that we get all of our poles 'ready made'. However I also believe in letting the best people for the job construct our technically advanced poles, so I would not dream of attempting to carry out complex processes that need decades of experience and advanced machinery. I think some of our clients would be quite perturbed if they thought the SL2 was being built out of an industrial unit in Cornwall!
Personally I like having a good interchange of opinions with Mr Howard and others. If there was no passion for the products then this would be a very boring forum :) The only thing I enjoy more is having a good 'discussion' with Foxman :D
-
... on and on and on they go...
-
So ::) to recap then doing a diy gutter vac is not worth the effort and i should just buy an off the shelf system
Dean
-
Oh dear, oh dear......the best solution is to get the Upkeeper machine and then you avoid both carbon fibre and aluminium! Oh and it also has a 3 inch clear tube so no blockages!
Rod
-
Oh dear, oh dear......the best solution is to get the Upkeeper machine and then you avoid both carbon fibre and aluminium! Oh and it also has a 3 inch clear tube so no blockages!
Rod
That is to big for most domestic UK gutters and they have had numerous complaints about it to......... They are waiting for an adapter from the US manufacturer.
(that is the gist of a conversation I overheard at the Wndex show between an Ionics salesman and a rather anoyed customer)
Regards
Mr H
-
Oh dear, oh dear......the best solution is to get the Upkeeper machine and then you avoid both carbon fibre and aluminium! Oh and it also has a 3 inch clear tube so no blockages!
Rod
That is to big for most domestic UK gutters and they have had numerous complaints about it to......... They are waiting for an adapter from the US manufacturer.
(that is the gist of a conversation I overheard at the Wndex show between an Ionics salesman and a rather anoyed customer)
Regards
Mr H
It's not too big as I use mine regularly. The problem is that some builders tend to put the tile right up to the leading edge of the gutter leaving enough room to just about get your fingers in (ungloved!). They changed the design in the States but are now retrofitting them with an update I believe. I had mine prior to the changes.
Rod
-
I will add my pennies worth.
I use the Omnivac a huge amount. It is one of the best tools I have ever bought. I have several modified tools all made by Glyn at Omnipole. I have several large commercial contracts because of this machine!
I clean up to 3 stories on my own with no problems and after that to 48 I use another person with a support pole. But most large commercial jobs will require a cherry picker for guttering above roofs etc and any vac system just wont work because of impossible access (see pic)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff85/Kevinred101/DSC_0068.jpg)
To be honest if its 4 stories or above I will have a cherry picker on site.
I have a possible job coming up that is at 60ft. It is in an internal courtyard (8 court yards in total) A cherry picker is out of the question even a Teupen spider lift wont fit due to very limited access. The scaffolding cost is over 18K. After testing the SL2 pole with MR H on a recent job, next to my Omnivac I would consider buying an SL2 for this particular job as I will price it into the job. If it survives the job great if not who cares because it will have paid for its self over and over again. Also the contract will be mine for a long time to come. However Glyn is looking into this for me.
My final comments are
1. The Omnivac is an excellent tool and in its standard form will make you money
2. The Omnivac is all you will need for 99% of jobs and will last you much longer than a carbon fibre pole.
If most of your usage is like below buy an Omnivac
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff85/Kevinred101/1205830609-SNB20218.jpg)
3. At heights where a cherry picker is out of the question an SL2 has its use, but I have only ever come across one job like the one listed above.
4. Commercially if a part breaks or needs replacing I call Glyn and he sends me a new part as its quicker - saves time and messing about. I clean gutters for a living - I leave building guttervacs to the experts.
5. The Upkeeper is fine for domestic work but its no match for an Omnivac - trust me.
-
Oh dear, oh dear......the best solution is to get the Upkeeper machine and then you avoid both carbon fibre and aluminium! Oh and it also has a 3 inch clear tube so no blockages!
Rod
Avoid carbon fibre and Aluminum and have cheap plastic instead!
a 3 inch clear tube that is useless after 25 feet as it just doesnt have the power!
-
I will add my pennies worth.
5. The Upkeeper is fine for domestic work but its no match for an Omnivac - trust me.
Why ?
Good input.
ps. Thanks for the 23 hour delivery of my system Glyn.
-
Oh dear, oh dear......the best solution is to get the Upkeeper machine and then you avoid both carbon fibre and aluminium! Oh and it also has a 3 inch clear tube so no blockages!
Rod
What about using some sections of drainpipe?
-
Tried it its tooo flexible after 18ft, try it for yourself its really cheap.
-
I will add my pennies worth.
5. The Upkeeper is fine for domestic work but its no match for an Omnivac - trust me.
Why ?
Good input.
Its just lacking power Jeff. Ionics only supply 25ft of tube for this very reason.
The other massive disadvantage is you cant do internal cleaning of overheads etc due to the petrol fumes.
You would be better buying the Omnivac as you just have by the looks of things ;D
Mind you if nobody else buys a gutter vac I will be very happy as Im making a killing LOL
-
See I did listem to you at the show and I must be the most ardent and tightest diyer in Wales at least ;).
Thats why I said good input/feedback, good of a pro to add comment, you have obviously been behind the scenes getting on with earning the £££ while most of here pontificate on whether or not to go waterfed etc. so its nice of people to call back- honestly.
-
Thanks Jeff,
You'll end up doing more of this work than wfp in time. Its also a very good door opener another bolt on that will help you sell commercial wfp and vice versa.
-
Kev R
Could you give some examples of pricing up gutter jobs if you dont want to put prices on here you could email me windowcleaner@aspectswfp.co.uk
thanks
Dean
-
Tried it its tooo flexible after 18ft, try it for yourself its really cheap.
Jeff have you tryed it with bigger sleave joints!
-
WC Do you mean going up gradually a size ? say from 2-3" if so , no. But itwas the plastic pipe itself I found on a warm day started to go too flexible.
Or do you have some other idea ?
-
WC Do you mean going up gradually a size ? say from 2-3" if so , no.
No just extending the joints longer that joint the rain gutter sections together, would this stop the bend!
-
Oh dear, oh dear......the best solution is to get the Upkeeper machine and then you avoid both carbon fibre and aluminium! Oh and it also has a 3 inch clear tube so no blockages!
Rod
Avoid carbon fibre and Aluminum and have cheap plastic instead!
a 3 inch clear tube that is useless after 25 feet as it just doesnt have the power!
That's odd because I regularly clean 3 stories and have also done some 4 story. If you prefer the Omnivac then fine, use it. I don't, I'm happy with the Upkeeper and it earns me good money. It doesn't need a seperate generator or power supply so can go anywhere outside. It's also good to be able to see what you're sucking up flying down the tubes as you know that it's working well.
Each to his own!
Rod
-
Would someone be kind enough to post the prices please, of the three systems discussed here?
-
WC,
No wouldnt make any difference, ok to 10-15ft after that forget it because its the leverage of the neck that makes it bend. Nip to B&Q and but a couple of sections and try it. Did think of using c/f outside and fastening it to plastic but when you do try that its time consuming, the joints dont match up etc. Similar with putting outside the pole vac hose strapped to c/f sections, not really an answer.
-
Definitely a market for gutter work. I picked up 3 jobs yesterday and 4 today which I'll fit in on rainy days. Haven't even bothered to advertise it yet although it's mentioned on my business cards (gutter cleaning safely without ladders) that I give to all new customers.
-
Oh dear, oh dear......the best solution is to get the Upkeeper machine and then you avoid both carbon fibre and aluminium! Oh and it also has a 3 inch clear tube so no blockages!
Rod
Avoid carbon fibre and Aluminum and have cheap plastic instead!
a 3 inch clear tube that is useless after 25 feet as it just doesnt have the power!
That's odd because I regularly clean 3 stories and have also done some 4 story. If you prefer the Omnivac then fine, use it. I don't, I'm happy with the Upkeeper and it earns me good money. It doesn't need a seperate generator or power supply so can go anywhere outside. It's also good to be able to see what you're sucking up flying down the tubes as you know that it's working well.
Each to his own!
Rod
Its stated maximum working height height is 25ft. I had a trial and it was poor in relation to the Omnivac. Omnipole also do a clear plastic end that allows you to see what your sucking up. The up keeper (folding version) is still quite large not much different in size between that and my generator and Omnivac.
Except I can use the generator for other things and my Omnivac for inside buildings.
Of course its horses for courses but the upkeeper is really a domestic machine. The Omnivac can be used at 48ft - some difference you must admit.
-
I'm def more interested in these gutter things, but is it best to make your own I dont see how you can get the plastic pipes stiff enough to clean well.
-
http://www.omni-guttervac.com/Microsoft%20Word%20-%20GutterVac%20complete%20system%20price%20list.pdf
price link for Omni guttervac as requested
-
Looks like thats another thing i have to save up for ::)
Dean