Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: davep on March 05, 2008, 09:34:22 am
-
Hi,
I went to the Solutions stain removal course on Monday, they had a Scorpion set up.. I asked the guy if it came with a heater, he told me it is an extra but most dont use it as it such a powerful machine?
Just wondering what the Scorpion users on here thought..
-
Ive had my scorpion500psi for just over a year Best machine ive ever had .Lack of a heater has never being a problem .Hot water from the house .But i do have a heater that i can plug in nearer the wand if needed With the chemicals and pre agitation i do not seem to use the heater very often Des
-
Do you have it kept in the van with tanks Des?
-
Ive had my scorpion500psi for just over a year Best machine ive ever had .Lack of a heater has never being a problem .Hot water from the house .But i do have a heater that i can plug in nearer the wand if needed With the chemicals and pre agitation i do not seem to use the heater very often Des
My comments are same as Des.
My machine is the 300psi but have converted it to 2" hose.
Do have a twin chamber heater but use warm water from tap. Have done cold water washes Ok but personally (and probably a mind thing) I do prefer some warm water.
Use mine as a poratable with up to 75' 2" hoses.
Now looking at 2" wand - dont know whether to go 2" at 12" (2 jet) or 2" at 14" (4 jet) - any one with experiance with a Scorp?
Also have a Stinger from Solutions UK whic presprays using the pump on the Scorpio. Have a 25litre water tank with premixed M-Power/Nemeis Super, take the solution hose out of Scorp cleanwater tank, drop into portable 25lit water tank and use the Stinger. Saves a lot of time over a hand pump up sprayer.
Great buy and good service.
-
So do you keep yours van mounted Joe?
-
No - I use mine as a portable - but leave it outside as much as possible at a customers.
The tanks take up lot of room in van although I believe you can get a frame to mount one on top of the other.
One or two others are van mounted but cant remember who off hand (age problem you see - if you not there yet, its not something to look forward too ???)
-
I see, so you leave pre spray mix in van.. maybe i could come take a look one day?
-
Don't forget Chemical activity occurs at twice the rate with every 10 degree ( Celcius ) increase of temperature.
That is a fact. I am certain I want hot water in my Arsenal when cleaning a bad one.
I hear some of you say " these 63rd generation microspliters more than compensate for the lack of heat" Maybe they are good but the same law of physics applies when using them.
-
I see, so you leave pre spray mix in van.. maybe i could come take a look one day?
The pre spray is in a 25 litre water container - like campers have - its only 5 galls or so.
This has to be near the Scorpion because the hoses in the freah water tank pull out to drop into the 25 litre container then pump thro the machine to the Stinger sprayer.
If you want to pop along ok. This Friday a guy from Bakewell is coming to Warrington. He is due for delivery of a new Sorpion (first ever machine) soon so he asked if I can run through it with him. If you interested I let you know address of Kingdom Hall we are going to for a play around.
-
Don't forget Chemical activity occurs at twice the rate with every 10 degree ( Celcius ) increase of temperature.
That is a fact. I am certain I want hot heat in my Arsenal when cleaning a bad one.
I hear some of you say " these 63rd generation microspliters more than compensate for the lack of heat" Maybe they are good but the same law of physics applies when using them.
Dont want to start a debate over hot or cold water extraction - its been wacked out on here too many times
BUT
there are c.cleaners that have achieved very good cleans without the use of warm or hot.
there are others, like me, who have done it but prefer to use warm water from tap (mind thing like I said)
Might seem impossible to you at the moment to use cold water and get a result but its been done by respected carpet cleaners - you will just have to try it.
-
I have a Recoil which is similar but not as refined as Scorpion. I use a heat exchanger on most jobs however when i have tested splitters with or without heat i must say the heat doesn't seem to make much difference.
Still i find heat helps trad chems and i find it reassuring maybe its psychological, we wouldn't shower in cold water by choice would we :-\
-
Ta Joe i will come along too. Will give you a call later ;)
-
I also use the 500psi scorpion and tend to agree with joe,like to use hot tap water where possible,if required I have the inline heater to fall back on.Have used cold water with microsplitter and had amazing results.the stinger is a very usefull bit of equipment to add to your kit.mike
-
you shouldn't really use the word 'hot' because what you really mean is 'warm'
hot water does make a difference but warm doesn't, you might as well use cold.
that why people say " i used hot water & cold, there's is'nt really any difference' that because they are really using warm water.
the QCs with hot water scold your arms and leave blisters.
-
Well there you are - I said it was all in the mind.
-
Just as an add on to this thread I use a Scorpion XPS 500psi and normally would use "hot" water from the customers tap. However I recently cleaned a pub carpet and there was no hot water available. Here we go I thought - its worth a try and the result? Excellent! Amazed me but it does seem to me that m/splitters can work with cold water. So I wouldn't rule that line of thought out.
-
I run a Scorpion 500psi.
Don't have a heater or an in-line.
I typically run with hand hot from the customers tap but frequently have the need to use a cold water rinse. Doesn't seem to make any difference at all.
Des
You can have a Westpac 4 jet wand in 12" width as well as 14". The lance tube is actually 1.75" with a 2" end tube for fitting the 2" hose cuff. I've got the 12" with a GreenGlide. I love it. I fancy trying the new Greenie wand but would npot dream of buying without trying first.
I use the Scorpio as a portable. I have the van mount tanks and although I've worked with them on my van, I haven't got enough space to make it a realistic and viable proposition.
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
-
Ken, Des i have the 12" Greenhorn wand you can have a try at the CCDO :)
-
Ken
So you have a 2" 12"wide 4 jet.
what pressure do you run that at and how quick does the water disappear from clean tank ie are you allways filling
-
I typically run at 200-250 on carpet, but I do a lot of agitation with Envirodri which eases the rinse process considerably.
I run a total of .06 on jets so the delivery is the same as a typical 2 jet wand with 2x03's. But with the jets being closer to the carpet, they're a bit more efficient.
Water consumption, even at 300psi, is less than my old Pro-Plus which was 100psi (ease and speed of working)
Safe and happy cleaning :)
ken
-
you shouldn't really use the word 'hot' because what you really mean is 'warm'
hot water does make a difference but warm doesn't, you might as well use cold.
that why people say " i used hot water & cold, there's is'nt really any difference' that because they are really using warm water.
the QCs with hot water scold your arms and leave blisters.
Surely tho using cold water vastly increases drying times?
i wouldn've thought even slightly raising the temp would be a benefit, after all most customers are interested in how quickly the carpet dries, i know you can use air movers as well but thats just making more work for yourself
regards
steve
-
Steve,
have you got that the right way round ?
"using hot water increases drying times" surly the other way round :)
geoff
-
John Kelly did a little experiment with hot and cold water,it wasn't very scientific but it showed hot penetrated the fibres better which meant a better clean and it dried quicker than the cold water section
-
whoops yeah meant vastly reduces drying times ::)
thanks geoff
steve
-
Hi Guys
Haven't used the Scorpion myself so can't comment.
However I can comment on the advantages of hot water of which there are many.
Chemicals are more active due to increased molecular energy.
Greasy/fatty dirt is softened / melted.
Faster drying time due to more molecular energy again.
Lower surace tension.
As I have said many times before the laws of Physics are not altered by marketing hype becsuse they are mathematically proven, that is why they are laws .
Cheers
Doug
-
Doug its not just chemistry laws but good old common sence. If you clean any thing with hot water it is quicker and cleans easier/better than cold or warm water.
You can use cold water to clean. No doubts about that, and M/S are fine to use cold. BUTTT for optimum performance,drying etc hot water works best and produces best results.
Try cleaning the greasy dishes at home with cold water and detergent.
Then try cleaning them in hot water and detergent.
You dont even need to try that bcause common sence and experience will tell you what cleans better and quicker. ;)
-
Plus the machine doesn't come with built in heater so supplier is going to tell it works without one, its all marketing
-
Hi Paul, Steve.
I agree and something worth bearing in mind when designing websites, leaflets etc that our customers have common sense too.
If we write or copy psuedo scientific tosh this will put them off.
Cheers
Doug
-
Before Xmas i was using a cold water only TM and it dried carpets faster, I couldn't believe it but I came to the conclusion that the cold water wasn't penetrating the fibres, the feel of the just cleaned carpet wasn't as good or a bouncy, when i got back to heat I noticed the difference but the real thing is that even with the same MS and aggitate I was leaving a far softer carpet.
Shaun
-
John Kelly did a little experiment with hot and cold water,it wasn't very scientific but it showed hot penetrated the fibres better which meant a better clean and it dried quicker than the cold water section
Shaun already said that :P
-
Hi Paul, Steve.
I agree and something worth bearing in mind when designing websites, leaflets etc that our customers have common sense too.
If we write or copy psuedo scientific tosh this will put them off.
Cheers
Doug
Doug cant quite work out if your giving advice or having a dig.
Would you like to expand further.
-
Dont want to start a debate over hot or cold water extraction - its been wacked out on here too many times
BUT
there are c.cleaners that have achieved very good cleans without the use of warm or hot.
there are others, like me, who have done it but prefer to use warm water from tap (mind thing like I said)
Might seem impossible to you at the moment to use cold water and get a result but its been done by respected carpet cleaners - you will just have to try it.
Yep, I was positive I wrote something around 11-20 this morning but here we are again........
-
Hi Paul
It was a bit rambling, wasn't meant as a dig , it's not really my style.
I was trying to bring together a couple of threads, whilst trying to cook dinner.
Joe
We cannot really discuss the merits of a machine if we ignore it's drawbacks and the Scorpion uses it's avaialble power to produce a high vacuum and pump pressure, by portable standards.
Other machines use the available power to heat water which will loosen dirt more effectively thereby requiring less vacuum/water.
All other things being equal heat will give a better clean, obviously other variables such as agiatation will also have an effect.
You are coming to the CCDO, I will discuss if you or others wish.
Ultimately you pays your money you makes your choice.
Cheers
Doug
-
Hi,
I went to the Solutions stain removal course on Monday, they had a Scorpion set up.. I asked the guy if it came with a heater, he told me it is an extra but most dont use it as it such a powerful machine?
Just wondering what the Scorpion users on here thought..
Doug, I am not disagreeing with you but the original thread started by DaveP is quoted above.
A few Scorpion owners replied and most, if not all, said they prefer to use warm/hot water but the indications were they have achieved good results with cold.
but then it turns, again, into the debate of hot v cold.
Yes I will be at CCDO and look forward to meeting you and all the others I "talk" with but never met.
CARPEX comes first on the calender and I am planning to attend on the Friday so may meet some there
-
Joe
As with most topics the discussion broadened, thats what happens on free forums.
Cheers
Doug
-
Joe you getting a bit touchy to night mate.
-
In my wish list I had a new machine
Scorpion
Because I respect Ed and John , plus Nick for taking a company from nowhere to some where. But when i cross examined on Cleantalk i gathered it was not the extra vac but two inch pipe that made most diffrence to performance.
extra vac appears to be at expense of heat.
being old fashined I think heat is part of cleaning pie.
If I make Carpex I will know ask ahbys about Two inch hose
Alltec alledgley bringing a new portable to Carpex/
If I make Mini Day out I will look at restormate range but not keen on truckmount as you have to buy fuel instead of customer and if time is of n essense you an always fill portable with hose in garden and not unload.
-
Hi Ian
Your right in saying the 2" hose makes a difference
BUT
if I dont switch the 3rd vac on you notice a massive loss
so I cant agree that the 3rd vac is their at the expense of heat.
If you at CCDO you may be able to test for yourself.
-
I like a bit of contravsey ;D ;D
-
Dont forget Joe has had this machine a short time after a CFR machine. Cant wait to see his face on CCDO when he has a go of a truck ;D
-
Yes Paul I am looking forward to having a go with the Prowler.
I have said on here that if I ws a bit younger I would probably go for a Prowler.
but as I am not a bit younger I am happy with the Scorpion.
Looking forward to looking at the greenie wands as well.
Will be a good day I'm sure.
-
Guys, if you even think for a second you want to upgrade a wand, anything you buy with the GreenGlides name on it comes with a no questions ask buy back guarantee, it's worth a few quid in shipping from HydraMaster to have access to a superior tool.
Now that said....a lil' 300 psi pump would require a jet (nozzle) down size from the stock factory jets 110 02 x 4 on the 12" version.
It's nuts to run a high performance Porty with a small wand, the bigger bore makes all the difference on an elec. machine just like it does on a TM.
;D
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r120/CaliforniaGreenie/NewGHwand008.jpg)
-
What are you saying Jeff
is it the standard size jets are 110 02 and you need to downsize from there
or is it you down size to 110 02 from a larger stock size.
-
Joe the 02 is the size of the hole in the nozzle for example 01 jet would have less water flowing through a 02 jet as it is a smaller opening. On most wands in this country we go up to a flow rate of 6 so a two jet wand would have 2 x 03 jets =06 a 4 jet wond would have 4 x 1.5 jets.In the USA and with truckmounts because of higher airflow/vacuum a higher flood from the jet helps water suction and actually increases drying which I know sounds strange, but is true. Therefore the guys up jet to a total of 8 or 9 .
Hope I have explained that in a way that makes sence.
-
Understood you Paul
and now know Jeff means downsize from total of 8 to 6 ie 4 x 1.5 for my lil' 300psi
-
I have been using the Greenie wand with my 300psi Recoil with 4 02 jets does not seem to be a problem :)
Jeff should i downsize the jets?
Love the wand by the way.
-
I have been using the Greenie wand with my 300psi Recoil with 4 02 jets does not seem to be a problem :)
Jeff should i downsize the jets?
Love the wand by the way.
Gents' it's totally up to you, just know there is balancing point you have to find, bumping up your flow rate (bigger jets) will decrease your operating pressure some and vise versa, so pick your poison.
A little more Flush...or a little more Impact.
Glad the 12" Greenhorn is serving well, the 14" are all the rave here in the states, but you guys really like the 12" version, it's all good. Pixie houses?