Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Jason Atwell on October 30, 2007, 07:42:12 pm

Title: Shops - whats the best way to get them?
Post by: Jason Atwell on October 30, 2007, 07:42:12 pm
Obviously most shops already have a window cleaner,

I am just starting to put a letter/ flyer together to specifically target shops, and was trying to put myself in the shop managers shoes and think what i can offer him/her  that they dont  already get.
 
Ok, if the current window cleaner is no good or unreliabe or bad attitude etc, the manager may be looking for a new cleaner, but if he is just ok?

The shop owner may look on it as better the devil you know and stick with what he's got.

So what can i do to increase my chances? does anyone have any success stories?

thanks jase
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: NWH on October 30, 2007, 07:43:54 pm
The manager will think about the price and then think about the price again.
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: Jason Atwell on October 30, 2007, 07:48:05 pm
I dis agree to a certain extent NWH as if this was the case, all the shops would look crap cause the local   pot would be doin them when he could stand!
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: Bobs Window Cleaning on October 30, 2007, 07:50:38 pm
So you wanna nick work off another cleaner?

You're sure to get some problems buddy. Believe me, Ive seem window cleaners in Norwich having a right ol bust up cos of this.


Bob
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: Jason Atwell on October 30, 2007, 07:53:26 pm
So you wanna nick work off another cleaner?

You're sure to get some problems buddy. Believe me, Ive seem window cleaners in Norwich having a right ol bust up cos of this.


Bob

How am i nicking work, dint know it belonged to someone!
If someones doing a good job they have nothing to worry about do they!!!

Title: Re: Shops
Post by: Andy@w.c.s on October 30, 2007, 07:54:56 pm
Same as in Taunton
even down to fighting in the morning
slashing tyres and to be honest who need the hassle
all for a few shops who will drop you for a cheaper quote
leave them be there are bigger fish to fry
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: Bobs Window Cleaning on October 30, 2007, 07:57:17 pm
So what will you do if you go to a shop and they say they have a cleaner already?

You state "Ok, if the current window cleaner is no good or unreliabe or bad attitude etc"

To me thats asking for trouble


Title: Re: Shops
Post by: Jason Atwell on October 30, 2007, 07:57:58 pm
How is leafleting shops different to leafleting houses, most houses who want a w/c already have one, but most people still leaflet these?
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: Jason Atwell on October 30, 2007, 07:59:47 pm
So what will you do if you go to a shop and they say they have a cleaner already?

You state "Ok, if the current window cleaner is no good or unreliabe or bad attitude etc"

To me thats asking for trouble




All im gonna do is send a letter and see what happens, if they contact me, alls fair!
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: Bobs Window Cleaning on October 30, 2007, 08:02:20 pm
Dont get me wrong guv, Im not having a dig.

Its no different to houses but shops cause more probs than houses IMO.

Its fine to leaflet the shops but as you said in your earlier post most already have a cleaner. Not sure if this is the case with houses tho.


Bob
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: Jason Atwell on October 30, 2007, 08:08:47 pm
bod, know what your saying,

but at the end of my street is a big long road full of shops, and i like getting up and gettin an early start so i can finish early and enjoy whats left of the day, with my young family.

So some of these would be perfect for me.
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: Wayne Thomas on October 30, 2007, 08:11:19 pm
It's alright doing shops if you have plenty of them close by otherwise it's not worth falling out with another window cleaner over cheap prices just to get the odd shop unless they are on the outskirts in little hamlets, villages,etc.

I had McDonalds and Pizza Hut ask me to give them quotes and when they told me what their present window cleaners were charging I laughed my head off and declined to give quotes. You're better off doing domestic houses than cleaning the odd shop :)
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: xxmattyxx on October 30, 2007, 08:11:52 pm
I dis agree to a certain extent NWH as if this was the case, all the shops would look crap cause the local p i s s  pot would be doin them when he could stand!

 ???
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: brightnclean on October 30, 2007, 08:13:53 pm
Boy oh Boy are u askin for trouble  :(

You say yourself u are gonna try and offer services the present cleaner can't offer so basically you are trying to get the other guy out. I don't know how long u've been a window cleaner but shop work is very highly valued and very hard to come by and also very competetive. It can go for up to 20 times clean value or even more. A shop owner or manager wont put up with bad service so the present cleaner will be doing a good job at an already very competetive price.

I hope you are beginning to see where actively trying to muscle in on this work might lead you  :(
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: Jason Atwell on October 30, 2007, 08:13:56 pm
I dis agree to a certain extent NWH as if this was the case, all the shops would look crap cause the local p i s s  pot would be doin them when he could stand!

 ???

This means if the shop manager was only interested in the cheapest quote, then the person doing the windows would quite possibly be addicted to special brew!
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: Jason Atwell on October 30, 2007, 08:16:48 pm
Boy oh Boy are u askin for trouble  :(

You say yourself u are gonna try and offer services the present cleaner can't offer so basically you are trying to get the other guy out. I don't know how long u've been a window cleaner but shop work is very highly valued and very hard to come by and also very competetive. It can go for up to 20 times clean value or even more. A shop owner or manager wont put up with bad service so the present cleaner will be doing a good job at an already very competetive price.

I hope you are beginning to see where actively trying to muscle in on this work might lead you  :(

The only service i would be trying to offer is that of a top quality service, if some one else is already doing this, then my flyer will go in the bin, and i would not be purposefully undercutting anyone.

Title: Re: Shops
Post by: xxmattyxx on October 30, 2007, 08:19:19 pm
I dis agree to a certain extent NWH as if this was the case, all the shops would look crap cause the local p i s s  pot would be doin them when he could stand!

 ???

This means if the shop manager was only interested in the cheapest quote, then the person doing the windows would quite possibly be addicted to special brew!


and.......?
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: Jason Atwell on October 30, 2007, 08:19:51 pm
It's alright doing shops if you have plenty of them close by otherwise it's not worth falling out with another window cleaner over cheap prices just to get the odd shop unless they are on the outskirts in little hamlets, villages,etc.

I had McDonalds and Pizza Hut ask me to give them quotes and when they told me what their present window cleaners were charging I laughed my head off and declined to give quotes. You're better off doing domestic houses than cleaning the odd shop :)

Wayne,
Why is it ok if they are in the outskirts or a hamlet?

And why were mcdonalds and pizza hut telling you what there current W/c charges?

Title: Re: Shops
Post by: Jason Atwell on October 30, 2007, 08:20:45 pm
I dis agree to a certain extent NWH as if this was the case, all the shops would look crap cause the local p i s s  pot would be doin them when he could stand!

 ???

This means if the shop manager was only interested in the cheapest quote, then the person doing the windows would quite possibly be addicted to special brew!


and.......?

AND?....... ???
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: brightnclean on October 30, 2007, 08:24:55 pm
The whole point about shop work in a town is that it's one shop after another all close together in a street. OK the prices arent great but it's usually done early in the morning and they can be done quickly which all adds up. Also most of them are weekly or even twice weekly. A "run" of shops is worth a great deal. The odd one in a hamlet is hardly worth bothering with.
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: xxmattyxx on October 30, 2007, 08:28:12 pm
I dis agree to a certain extent NWH as if this was the case, all the shops would look crap cause the local p i s s  pot would be doin them when he could stand!

 ???

This means if the shop manager was only interested in the cheapest quote, then the person doing the windows would quite possibly be addicted to special brew!


and.......?

AND?....... ???

Im addicted to home-brew if I drink it  :o
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: Jason Atwell on October 30, 2007, 08:35:22 pm
Who mentioned home brew, i said special brew! you know the super strength lager that you see people walking the streets with, I was trying to make the point that, surely a manager will look beyond the price of a quote.

Sorry if i offended any special brew drinkers! :P
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: xxmattyxx on October 30, 2007, 08:39:29 pm
I meant Special-Brew actually  ;D

In all honesty I felt, although it might have been a throw-away comment, it could be offensive, I was really just trying to point that out.

Matt
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: Jason Atwell on October 30, 2007, 08:42:39 pm
As i said, sorry for any offense caused, :o

 maybe i should of said meths drinker!!

You dont drink that do you? lol  ;D
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: xxmattyxx on October 30, 2007, 08:45:14 pm
As i said, sorry for any offense caused, :o

 maybe i should of said meths drinker!!

You dont drink that do you? lol  ;D

 ;D  ;D Paint-stripper actually
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: Jason Atwell on October 30, 2007, 08:48:34 pm
Do your potatoes sing before you have a drink or only afterwards? ;)
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: xxmattyxx on October 30, 2007, 08:53:27 pm
They sing when THEYVE had a drink


(http://db.msn-beta.com/big_emoticons/valentine/hopless_in_love.gif)
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: windowwashers on October 30, 2007, 08:53:43 pm
Who mentioned home brew, i said special brew! you know the super strength lager that you see people walking the streets with, I was trying to make the point that, surely a manager will look beyond the price of a quote.

Sorry if i offended any special brew drinkers! :P
A little true story for you about taking shop work from other window clreaners, this is a true story and happened to a person that no long window cleaners:

person starts window cleaning for a local guy, thinks to himself I can do this myself, leaves local guys, starts himself gets a few houses by undercutting other cleaners, then starts on shops and undercutting the other cleaners (these have been doing for years normally passed down from dad and grandad), 1 month passes, person that started goes home to find garage and workshop alight, sorts that out 2 weeks later goes home house is full of smoke with a letter you have been warned. scARY BUT TRUE 100%


there are some real funny people around when it comes to window cleaning, if you are thinking of doing this by all means try, but my point is you do not know who you will be upsetting so be carful on what you say and the people you upset.

I dont have a clue where you are in the UK, I am just saying a true story that happened near where I live.
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: Jason Atwell on October 30, 2007, 09:00:21 pm
Why do people keep mentioning undercutting?? ???

There is loads of hairdressers on this road, and a new one has just opened, bet they have not had any grief?

Probably one of the reasons w/c have a bad name!
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: windowwashers on October 30, 2007, 09:01:25 pm
Why do people keep mentioning undercutting?? ???

There is loads of hairdressers on this road, and a new one has just opened, bet they have not had any grief?

Probably one of the reasons w/c have a bad name!
maybe wc do, but it happens maybe in the future it will stop but at the mo this does go on.
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: Andy@w.c.s on October 30, 2007, 09:01:40 pm
Same as in Taunton
even down to fighting in the morning
slashing tyres and to be honest who need the hassle
all for a few shops who will drop you for a cheaper quote
leave them be there are bigger fish to fry
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: bluez on October 30, 2007, 09:29:04 pm
I think we are all fooling ourselves when it comes to the idea of not taking work from another window cleaner.

Every time I buy a new piece of gear or improve my printing or send texts to my database or upgrade my uniform or place an ad in the newspaper or the yellow pages I am attempting to seperate my operation from the commonplace (not bad, just commonplace).

Why?......  to get more work .......from where? ........from anyone who responds regardless of wheather they have now are at a time in the past had another window cleaner.

I expect no less from the good competition in return and have not been disapointed in the past.

Don't be put off by the scaremainers market and be damned let the public decide but check your concience before you do anything.

By the way I have never tried to directly target another window cleaners job but if in my mass marketing their clients are attracted to me then thats fair game.
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: mark dew on October 30, 2007, 10:30:16 pm
Don't be put off by the scaremainers market and be damned let the public decide but check your concience before you do anything.

good advice.
I personally don't seek nor want shop work or commercial, but listening to some of the comments about how dangerous shop work can be makes the mischievous side of me want to neck a few cans of wifebeater for brekkie and go canvassing the local high street.
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: stevekennedy on October 30, 2007, 10:42:01 pm
If you get a shop this way, you will find that the old cleaner will be doing the shop next door or a few doors up when you turn up. He will approach you, possibly with his mates or even other window cleaners who don't want you knicking their jobs as well. This can get really serious. Watch yourself! My worker got this hassle when we took over a large retailer in Aberdeen. Fortunately, my worker was an ex-bouncer so he wasn't intimidated. We did that job as a team for a while until things settled down. True.
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: DASERVICES on October 30, 2007, 10:49:19 pm
You will find that a lot of shop chains are now outsourcing to National companies who then ring the likes of me to price the job up. Guess what I am always too expensive for them ;D, but on the other hand they are pricing low pushing the local w/c out of doing the job.
Title: Re: Shops - whats the best way to get them?
Post by: stevekennedy on October 30, 2007, 11:03:43 pm
We do a bit of this kind of work (National Company). Ok for bread and butter work. Need to get quite a lot together to make it pay though.
Title: Re: Shops - whats the best way to get them?
Post by: DASERVICES on October 30, 2007, 11:10:42 pm
Caledonian, Thistle  ;)
Title: Re: Shops
Post by: windowwashers on October 31, 2007, 08:04:18 am
Don't be put off by the scaremainers market and be damned let the public decide but check your concience before you do anything.

good advice.
I personally don't seek nor want shop work or commercial, but listening to some of the comments about how dangerous shop work can be makes the mischievous side of me want to neck a few cans of wifebeater for brekkie and go canvassing the local high street.

lol, what are you like  :o
Title: Re: Shops - whats the best way to get them?
Post by: paul mather on October 31, 2007, 08:19:37 am
Shops are so  not worth your time & effort mate. Don't bother with them would be my advice.
They are only worth doing if you have loads of them together & you will not be able to do that. You will probably get 1 or 2 & then spend the next year wondering why you are getting out of bed so early for an extra £5.
Trust me I've been there & done that & won't be doing it again. I turn down all shop work now unless it happens to be Sainsburys or Tescos. Thats a different matter.
Title: Re: Shops - whats the best way to get them?
Post by: Jason Atwell on October 31, 2007, 06:15:56 pm
Iv added a poll to get an overall view  ???
Title: Re: Shops - whats the best way to get them?
Post by: Majestic on October 31, 2007, 09:22:57 pm
I would leaflet the whole row, if that included the ones that some one else did  not to worry. If he is doing a good job, they will keep him.If you do have to price some  and you dont under cut him dont worry about it .

( you do know the ones that I do )
Title: Re: Shops - whats the best way to get them?
Post by: windowwashers on October 31, 2007, 09:33:13 pm
if is was leafleting i would leaflet everywhere, I would not go out of why way to take work off others, it is quite easy to do but i dont work like that I know more and more window cleaners in my area we can help each other no need to back stab, you are asking for it back IMO if you do, i prefer to build a solid business built on quality and not price
Title: Re: Shops - whats the best way to get them?
Post by: Neil_A on October 31, 2007, 09:39:03 pm
I get leaflets through my door everyday, for pizza's, kebabs, Tesco's , Asda, Pc world , comet , halfords , wing Wong's the Chinese shop:)

They all all in compo with each other

Whats stopping all of us giving leaflets to all the same shops?
Title: Re: Shops - whats the best way to get them?
Post by: d s windowcleaning on October 31, 2007, 11:53:46 pm
just go for it mate
Title: Re: Shops - whats the best way to get them?
Post by: Jason Atwell on November 01, 2007, 02:05:13 pm
if is was leafleting i would leaflet everywhere, I would not go out of why way to take work off others, it is quite easy to do but i dont work like that I know more and more window cleaners in my area we can help each other no need to back stab, you are asking for it back IMO if you do, i prefer to build a solid business built on quality and not price

Window washers
What is with your statement, 'i prefer to build a solid basis on quality and not price'? ? ?

As i have said before i would not be purposely undercutting,

Plus you say that YOU WOULD LEAFLET EVERY WHERE!  but yet your insinuating that im going to back stab some one by leafleting shops? ? ?

You make no sense in this post, your just rambling on about yourself? :-\
Title: Re: Shops - whats the best way to get them?
Post by: windowwashers on November 01, 2007, 02:41:21 pm
if is was leafleting i would leaflet everywhere, I would not go out of why way to take work off others, it is quite easy to do but i dont work like that I know more and more window cleaners in my area we can help each other no need to back stab, you are asking for it back IMO if you do, i prefer to build a solid business built on quality and not price

Window washers
What is with your statement, 'i prefer to build a solid basis on quality and not price'? ? ?

As i have said before i would not be purposely undercutting,

Plus you say that YOU WOULD LEAFLET EVERY WHERE!  but yet your insinuating that im going to back stab some one by leafleting shops? ? ?

You make no sense in this post, your just rambling on about yourself? :-\
Question: WHO HAS OR WOULD LEAFLET SHOPS THAT SOMEONE ELSE ALREADY DOES?  that was the question and that was my reply, It was not aimed at you at all just a reply, if you took it the wrong way then I can only say sry.

the part about quality not price means: I do not ever go for low price work just to get a job, I offer quality in my work and that's the same for people that work for me. I do not want to work for less money just to get a job. (again this is not aimed at you, it is an explanation about my comment ok.

Building a solid business part: I have found over the years that people that go for price instead of quality are not loyal and are not good for a building a solid business, I could well be wrong, but thats IMO, again not aimed at you just what I think.

When I leaflet I put them everywhere yes, I would not think to myself oh that one has a cleaner that may not etc as it would take to much time, so they go out everywhere I am not interested in other window cleaners work, as there is plenty of new work out there.

you say I am rambling about myself, the question I  misread  so understand where you are coming from sry bout that m8:-[.

Text can be read many different ways I was not in anyway insinuating that you will back stab anyone. I was mearly saying that if you back stab someone you are asking for it back (you as in anyone)  not YOU Jason, I treat others as I want to be treated, this is the way I think.

I am very straight talking , if I have something to say I do, sometimes I am wrong sometimes I am right.

Hope that clears that up, again sry if in anyway you felt I was taking a swipe at you, I was not  ;)
Title: Re: Shops - whats the best way to get them?
Post by: Ian_Giles on November 01, 2007, 02:45:19 pm
Leaflet and be happy, but don't expect much of a response for your efforts.

I do a huge amount of shops in my local town centre, more than any of the other window cleaners in Chepstow.

Some years back my closest rival in town (we don't get on) lost a couple of accounts to me.
This guy had worked for me in the past, and for some years after he went by himself he would often caretake my round while I was on holiday, so he knew all of the shops and other accounts I did in town.

Times passes and we have fallen out, he lost an account or two to me and in an effort to get back at me, he canvassed my entire commercial round.
He knew my prices, he knew most of the customers, but even though he offered to undercut me by a minimum of 50p (might sound only a little, but on a shop that is only £2.50 to begin with it is substantial) and was unable to pick up a single job.

If you want to pick up shops, don't just leaflet drop, call in and speak to the manager, give them a leaflet and offer your services...you might get lucky on one or two if they are dissatisfied with the service they are getting.
But you may also come across a new business that hasn't had the normal town centre window cleaners call on them, and you might get a toe hold that way.

The best way to get the work is when a shop closes down and a new shop opens, that is then fair game, just because one of the existing town centre window cleaners did the shop before, does not entitle them to assume the job is theirs when a new and different business opens up there.

Myself and the other window cleaners in Chepstow certainly work that way, and that is this guy I don't get on with, Squeeky, Tosh (not that he is particularly interested in shops) an old guy and one or 2 others that have the odd shop...

Shops are sought after....but are complete pants if you only have a couple of them...it takes years and years to build up a good number of them.

Just posting leaflets will get you nowhere in truth.

Ian
Title: Re: Shops - whats the best way to get them?
Post by: Jason Atwell on November 01, 2007, 03:43:26 pm
Like with most things every one has their own opinion, I will go through with it once i have drafted a letter to go with my flyer, and see where it gets me.

If it gets me no where then at least iv tried and will then poss try the approach ian mentioned of going in and speaking with the manager.

I have spoke about this with another window cleaner, and we have both heard that the main w/c on this street who bought the round 18 months ago, has an attitude problem, again this is only someones opinion, they may be totally wrong, and if thats the case, good luck to him.

I also got asked to price one, which was a butty shop, that he does, I gave them a quote, but was told it was the same as their paying now, so i said well thats my price and stuck to that so did not get the job.

I do have four shops currently, one on this street being boots, and i do each one weekly, i like the fact it gives me an early start mon to thurs!

No problem by the way ian (window washers) ;)
Title: Re: Shops - whats the best way to get them?
Post by: Majestic on November 01, 2007, 04:25:05 pm
Quote
I have spoke about this with another window cleaner, and we have both heard that the main w/c on this street who bought the round 18 months ago, has an attitude problem

He does not speak to me , so go for it.
Any way what are you doing home at 2 oclock you do need more work
Title: Re: Shops - whats the best way to get them?
Post by: Jon-scwindows on November 01, 2007, 05:55:11 pm
a while ago maybe 12 months my area was quite dead, and i hardly saw people window cleaning anywhere, now i know of atleast 4 people that do it! i havent seen any wfpers yet though seems to be blokes carrying ladders around on there shoulders....
      make friends with the shop keepers, go in there to get your chocolate bars, and have a quick chat each time, then ask if if they could do with a window cleaner. They are more inclined to have your services if they know you well, or are a frequent customer.

im trying to get a local school now and a few high street shops, houses etc, its not easy though.
Title: Re: Shops - whats the best way to get them?
Post by: Jason Atwell on November 01, 2007, 07:02:10 pm
Quote
I have spoke about this with another window cleaner, and we have both heard that the main w/c on this street who bought the round 18 months ago, has an attitude problem

He does not speak to me , so go for it.
Any way what are you doing home at 2 oclock you do need more work

JEALOUS!!