Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Davo on October 06, 2007, 12:52:23 pm
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Theres no doubting the safety of wfp over traditional window cleaning methods,
This forum is predominantly pro wfp. Its quicker ( MORE MONEY) It reaches hard to access windows (MORE MONEY)It cleans facias soffits cladding (EVEN MORE MONEY) It brings up tired old moss covered conservatories to an "As new" condition ( EVEN BETTER MONEY).
AND ALL THIS FROM THE SAFETY OF THE GROUND.
SO ITS SAFE AND THIS IS WHERE THE DANGER LIES.
This profession is no longer restricted to those who can work at height and to those who carried out a dangerous job in virtually all weathers.
In "The good old days"it was hard graft for relatively not alot of money.
Now look....Smart sign written vans, earnings of £600- £1000 a week not uncommon ( Info taken from this forum)
Neoprene gloves windproof/waterproof fabrics for some theyve never had it so good.
As a new comer ( I discovered this site by accident while looking for another non-window cleaning related topic) I would never have considered entering this profession, especially at my age (45), as a trad cleaner.
However that was before I discovered the secret of the wfp. This week I took a week off work and canvassed for 30 hours using many pieces of information from this site.
Result
£740 of regular cleans (20-25 hours work)
£350 of one off conservatory cleans ( 4 jobs 8 hrs work max - may stretch it)
I work full time (good job) so Ive subbed all the work except the conservatory work. The subbie will use my van, my equipment and wear my company uniform.
He'll earn between £90-£120 a day and start work after finishing at the bakery where he works 4am till 9 am (he cant wait for me to get him more work, hes sick of getting up at 3am for £6.90 hour)
Now all this is taking work from someone else - I dont apologise for that- there were houses being cleaned by whoever in the areas I canvassed. I was cheaper on one of the conservatory jobs than a quote from her existing cleaner but I didnt tell the customer that I wouildnt undercut another cleaner so I didnt want the job ( was that wrong) BTW £75 for small conservatory 1 hr .
If it wasnt for the pole and this forum I wouldnt have ever considered window cleaning.
This is an easier safer business now...and the money doesnt look too bad either.
And with that comes increased competition.
AND THAT CAN BE AS DANGEROUS AS FALLING OFF A LADDER!
Mark
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Ive subbed all the work except the conservatory work. The subbie will use my van, my equipment and wear my company uniform.
Suggest you revisit your idea of "subbying". On the terms you have put that is fully employing someone.
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Im not sure I understand the point you are trying to make.
Why is competition as dangerous as falling off a ladder?
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Im not sure I understand the point you are trying to make.
Why is competition as dangerous as falling off a ladder?
[/quote
Because they can both be harmfull to your business. This business is now more open to competition because its no longer as dangerous as it used to be.
Mark
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That doesnt make it dangerous, no more dangerous than any other business where competition is involved anyway.
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Ive subbed all the work except the conservatory work. The subbie will use my van, my equipment and wear my company uniform.
Suggest you revisit your idea of "subbying". On the terms you have put that is fully employing someone.
Good point
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That doesnt make it dangerous, no more dangerous than any other business where competition is involved anyway.
Ok . The wfp has been introduced into this job to aid window cleaners and provide a safer enviroment in which to work. The irony of this developement is that it IS attracting new cleaners into the market that otherwise wouldnt have bothered, mainly because of the dangers involved. More cleaners more competition. This is potentially dangerous to your living. Damaging would have been a better word to use, but the title of the post was WFP---Dangerous.
I hope that helps to clarify the point.
Mark
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I've read you post twice and have come to the conclusion that your not a window cleaner, your a fraud. I can't see how you have the audacity to post on this forum myself. Basically your telling people you have a good job that your not willing to give up to follow this profession instead your buying equipment with income from your ' good job' and paying someone else to do all the work. Do you even know how us window cleaners really work I doubt you do. The person you are paying to do this work is not a sub-contractor, he is an employee and by the sounds of it he is not insured by you! You even admit to undercutting other window cleaners to get work, what a nice man you are. You scum and a fraud, basically your just a cow boy!
I suggest you reconsider what your telling people because if you come on here boasting to us true professionals we don't want to read it.
I think that upset you a little then:
I have no comment about the post as from what I read was put there for a negative reaction IMO.
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So my post has been deleted now. All I can say is I have made over 500 posts previously and not one has had a negative word or comment in. I'm not going to write anymore on this but think that it is rude and think the whole thread should be deleted!
Windowwashers you joined the same time as me and you pretty much post the same time of day as me and you know that I've never aimed a dig at anyone in my time being here. Although I've had digs thrown at me a few times!
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[
I have no comment about the post as from what I read was put there for a negative reaction IMO.
No that doesnt upset me. I quoted at my money, it just so happened to be less than someone elses quote. What would you do? Let it go cos its not "morally right".
As for the rest of the post....hes entitled to his opinion, doesnt really change anything though.
Who says I have to clean em myself, Ive done the tricky bit...getting decently priced work.
Dont give out all this wonderful advice and then moan when someone uses it.
Mark
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you can no longer get away with 'subbing' the work out, that's no no.
Legally he should be insured by you, and that means employers liability and all the other costs that being an employer ensues.
I also do not really fear newcomers coming into the job and going WFP.
They still need trad skills, and they will be very slow learning them.
WfP also takes investment, has much higher running costs and most certainly has a certain skill level.
Knowing how to price properly is also harder for a WFP newbie, and unless they have a very good understanding of how to run a business properly a great many will fall by the wayside.
And of course, if they have invested a few grand equiping themselves with WFP, they still have to pick up the business to be able to earn this incredible income!
Have to say I read your post with a fair degree of cynicism, in just 30 hours of canvassing you picked up a shed load of really well priced work and have someone who has never done the job before earning over a £100 a day!!
Methinks the reality is very very different.
Ian
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Colley,
you have email.
Ian
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I beg to differ but you are entirely wrong, competition is healthy as it keeps you on your toes, it is by far dangerous as you say. You need to think what you are stating before posting, also reading between the lines if you are not in the profession and employing someone else to do the work for you therefore not liable for tax/insurance etc then this is also wrong.
As for undercutting other w/c’s this is the last place you wanna brag about it as this is a underhand way of conducting this business. It would be a bit like me standing outside our local corner shop and selling cheap imported f*gs with no duty paid on them.
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Ian,
I did not receive any email try colley614@hotmail.co.uk or info@elitewindowcleaningnw.co.uk.
Thanks!
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So my post has been deleted now. All I can say is I have made over 500 posts previously and not one has had a negative word or comment in. I'm not going to write anymore on this but think that it is rude and think the whole thread should be deleted!
Windowwashers you joined the same time as me and you pretty much post the same time of day as me and you know that I've never aimed a dig at anyone in my time being here. Although I've had digs thrown at me a few times!
Colley I get digs at me all the time, I love it, was a little strong about Mark you know what I mean it was deleted, and the post in the first place IMO a litte wrong, I cant blame you for writting what you did, I just thought I would hold back and see what others put, I dont like some of the things said but everyone has the right to post and davo will get alot of replys to the post and i am guessing alot will not be good ones, soon see.
one thing that was wrote I cant see the problem which is getting work and someone else to do it, anyone that employs people are doing the same thing, thats called business, I do it ;) and so do many on here
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im reply to the main post..."OH SHUT UP" lol ;D
there are so many window cleaners in my area, we all get along just fine and dandy. i often stop and talk to all of them. I know them well.
although to be honest, id prefer to fall out with one of them or loose some work to them than fall off a ladder ::)
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Ian,
I did not receive any email try colley614@hotmail.co.uk or info@elitewindowcleaningnw.co.uk.
Thanks!
Amended, have forwarded it to your hotmail address.
It will be from ismcleaning@aol.com
Ian
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Hello Ian ;D
Nice to see you back, where have you been hiding ???
Sorry Guy's back on topic.
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Hello Ian ;D
Nice to see you back, where have you been hiding ???
Sorry Guy's back on topic.
I've been about......watching! 8)
Ian
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To Ian and the rest of the members on the board. I Apologize for my statement!
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Hello Ian ;D
Nice to see you back, where have you been hiding ???
Sorry Guy's back on topic.
I've been about......watching! 8)
Ian
And Deleting :o
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To Ian and the rest of the members on the board. I Apologize for my statement!
you didnt offend me colley you only wrote what you thought ;)
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there is nothing wrong with competitive pricing undercutting is when you go round asking how much people pay already and then you charge cheaper but there is nothing wrong with doing this either its a free market. how many people on here when getting a quote from two trades men would go with the more expensive because of morals. people want a good job at a reasonable price ok some people are cheep skates but most realize you have to make a living but also know when they are being ripped off, take the conservatory roof quote thread for example on average people say we should earn 30 quid an hour yet people are saying you should charge 150 for something which will take little over an hour. so if i charge 40 quid earning 40 quid an hour whereas someone else charges 150 making 150 an hour does that make me a undercutter? if people are charging vast prices for straight forward jobs people like myself will be able to charge more reasonable rates while still earning a good living if this is uncutting then im afraid im guilty. I dont doubt that people can command such huge prices but it aint gonna last take a look around and see how many house are being repossessed many people haven't got as much free money and are staring to feel the pinch and one of the first things to be cut out of an overstretched budget is window cleaning. i suppose what im trying to say is to protect yourself earn a good living/hourly rate but be reasonable.
rant over.
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Result
£740 of regular cleans (20-25 hours work)
£350 of one off conservatory cleans ( 4 jobs 8 hrs work max - may stretch it)
I work full time (good job) so Ive subbed all the work except the conservatory work. The subbie will use my van, my equipment and wear my company uniform.
He'll earn between £90-£120 a day and start work after finishing at the bakery where he works 4am till 9 am (he cant wait for me to get him more work, hes sick of getting up at 3am for £6.90 hour)
Mark
Mark
Firstly compertition is good for any business and window cleaning is no exception, but to actually target another window cleaners work on his price alone is totally wrong. Yes you can go where he is working and you can approuch his customers but to deliberatly under price him to get the work is morally wrong.
If you want to target my customers, you are most welcome because I would conteract you price by not charging them a penny. Also your new employee, when he has learnt how to clean windpws correctly and he see that instead of earning £90.00 a day and giving you the rest he can earn £200.00 and kept the lot, what are the chances that he takes a leaf from you own book and undercuts you prices and graps all of your customers.
In fact it would be interesting if any cleaner on this site who lives in your area, targets your new customers with lower prices but instead of their windows being cleaned by a newbie without a clue, they are now cleaned by a Professional Window Cleaner at say half your price.
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Mark
Firstly compertition is good for any business and window cleaning is no exception, but to actually target another window cleaners work on his price alone is totally wrong. Yes you can go where he is working and you can approuch his customers but to deliberatly under price him to get the work is morally wrong.
I never said I deliberately underpriced him, I said I put a price in at my money £75 for about an hours work, small conservatory but looks a right mess. And the price I quoted was less than her existing cleaner. Now if he wanted more cos he charges more then there's nothing I can do about that. But have you thought he may not have wanted the job and priced himself out of it.
I dont know the answer. But I didnt think oh hes charging X ( dont know the figure because she wouldnt tell me. Ill charge a tenner less.
If she had told me he had priced it at £25.00 before I quoted I MAY have quoted the job at £60 but I dont know cos it didnt happen.
And to the posters so far to this thread, who have said that to bring in that much work at that rate is impossible in a week all I can say is this I live near Blackpool and some of that work comes from there ( I wont say where cos thats my business)but there are some big hotels with lots of windows. On parts of the domestic I won heres how I found such a good nugget of domestic work, I was driving my car listening to a feature on the local radio which was talking about how people couldnt find a window cleaner for love nor money in a certain area So I went and knocked it 2 weeks later when I had time.
Oh and just so you dont think Im Davo the price slasher On a big job I quoted for the manager told me how much they were paying the existing cleaner , he also said he would doubt very much if they would pay anymore, but he also told me he wasnt happy with the firm so I quoted the same money. They were getting rid of the firm so does someone else take the work or do I?
Mark
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Williamx if customers are happy with a window cleaner then they won't stray just because of price i know because it has happened to me the customers you lose over price are either overpriced or cheapskates and you are probably better off without them.
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not related to topic. davo! i love your pic of stanley ogden, the best window cleaner their ever was!!! regards freshi
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and his mate eddie yates!
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Williamx if customers are happy with a window cleaner then they won't stray just because of price i know because it has happened to me the customers you lose over price are either overpriced or cheapskates and you are probably better off without them.
I totally agree with you, but with the way interest rates are rising and most morgage payers are totally max out, you will find that some very loyal customers have no choise but to try and save money.
They might not sack you and go to someone cheaper but they might instead want you come every 2 months instead of monthly, if you are not willing to do this, then they will move to another cleaner.
Its nice to make money when times are good, but when times are bad, its wise to understand your customers situation, and adapt.
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To Ian and the rest of the members on the board. I Apologize for my statement!
you didnt offend me colley you only wrote what you thought ;)
I feel like I've missed something... ???
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I think Colley was shooting from the hip and calling it as he saw it, and is 'one of us'. Good man Colley.
Now then Davo, welcome to the forum even though you've got 47 posts. You are intellignt and articulate and have posted a very combustable topic.Your business analysis of this forum and the new business opportunity it presents was nigh on perfect. But there are errors, including the subbing one, and some basic maths says that your plan as you set it out won't work. That's not to say that you weren't close.
If your business earns £30 ph and you pay someone £15 ph to do the actual work then that's good strategy. The trick is actually doing it and the clown that you employ not breaking a £400 pole or losing customers faster than you can gain them.
Your avatar of Stan Ogden tells us what you think of us
Your success at canvassing was some of the best I've heard of. What's your fulltime occputation?
Don't say Vicar oR solicitor because we already have them on the forum.
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Your avatar of Stan Ogden tells us what you think of us
Your success at canvassing was some of the best I've heard of. What's your fulltime occputation?
Don't say Vicar oR solicitor because we already have them on the forum.
My avatar of Stan Ogen is a light hearted representation of an iconic "Old School" window cleaner as percieved by many of our customers, its the image of window cleaners that I grew up with. To summise that that is what I think of posters on this forum couldnt be further from the truth.
I am a time served painter and decorator by trade, but moved into sales when I was 40. So to hear the "one of us " nonsense doesnt wash with me, painting and decorating isnt a glamorous trade and neither is window cleaning.
We are all here trying to earn an honest living.
.........some basic maths says that your plan as you set it out won't work. That's not to say that you weren't close.
If your business earns £30 ph and you pay someone £15 ph to do the actual work then that's good strategy. The trick is actually doing it and the clown that you employ not breaking a £400 pole or losing customers faster than you can gain them.
Thats paying £15 to someone who has only got a couple of days work at the moment. And I wouldnt use "A clown" thats why I pay "proper mans" money
If I wanted a clown Id put an advert in the job centre with all the others offering £250 for a 40hr week. If you pay a man peanuts........
Also the baker is a very nice friendly guy who works bloody hard for a near subsistance wage. He will do well, he just needs a break. And I have every confidence that he will bring in more work too, and at worst he wont lose me any when hes had time to learn the skills required for wfp work. Ive got a few properties for him to practice on before he goes out and works for money.
Now I know its not easy, doing a good job takes time, practice and experience, but dont make out that its rocket science either
Mark
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Rocket science no, detail ,yes.
Colley is one of us, and so too may you be. Good luck.
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Davo
I would reccomend that you send your trainee on a training course, its will save you a lot of time and lost customers.
It might be wise if you went on one as well, it wouldn't do, if the help, knew more, than the boss.
Ionics do one thats pretty good.
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I believe that these businesses have low exit value because if T/O IS 50K and ex's are 15k then that is an income of 35k. But to service that work assuming you werent doing it yourself you would have to pay someone 25k (at leadleast).
Therefore as a business it it only worth 10k pa, and then you have to have a lot invested in van -eqiupment- home /garage set up for pure water production etc.
No, Davo. set your mate up in painting and decorating, that's where the easy money is, that's why you've got so many properties ;D ;D
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I believe that these businesses have low exit value because if T/O IS 50K and ex's are 15k then that is an income of 35k. But to service that work assuming you werent doing it yourself you would have to pay someone 25k (at leadleast).
Therefore as a business it it only worth 10k pa, and then you have to have a lot invested in van -eqiupment- home /garage set up for pure water production etc.
No, Davo. set your mate up in painting and decorating, that's where the easy money is, that's why you've got so many properties ;D ;D
Thanks for the reply regarding exit value
As to the last bit.......did I say they were mine. I said I had .... mmmm fair point VG that was not what I meant though
I have friends whos properties he can practice on....is that better?
Just to clarify another point ( cos I can see where this is leading) Ive been a successful salesman for the last 5 and a bit years, Im not wealthy, but at the same time Im not skint either. I have the luxury of being able to find a few bob to invest into what I believe is a worthwhile venture. Ive put a little away I hope this meets with the approval of "The Brotherhood"
Mark
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Your plan is a good one, it's just that it's very hard to do and there are always setbacks you hadn't thought of.
I work my socks off and I struggle. Read Squeakies posts, we get the sack for almost anything.
Some of what you say like doing a cons in an hour is possible but you start taking three times this. You may have an advantage because of previous work where you had to think through what you were doing though.
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I believe that these businesses have low exit value because if T/O IS 50K and ex's are 15k then that is an income of 35k. But to service that work assuming you werent doing it yourself you would have to pay someone 25k (at leadleast).
Therefore as a business it it only worth 10k pa, and then you have to have a lot invested in van -eqiupment- home /garage set up for pure water production etc.
No, Davo. set your mate up in painting and decorating, that's where the easy money is, that's why you've got so many properties ;D ;D
Thanks for the reply regarding exit value
As to the last bit.......did I say they were mine. I said I had .... mmmm fair point VG that was not what I meant though
I have friends whos properties he can practice on....is that better?
Just to clarify another point ( cos I can see where this is leading) Ive been a successful salesman for the last 5 and a bit years, Im not wealthy, but at the same time Im not skint either. I have the luxury of being able to find a few bob to invest into what I believe is a worthwhile venture. Ive put a little away I hope this meets with the approval of "The Brotherhood"
Mark
The more I read this the more I find it amusing, Mark good on you for trying to start a new business, I was a sales man myself I got out of it as to many highs and lows (I too earnt very good wage from it) No one can knock you for starting up, competition is good, if you do a good job your customer will not want to change for £1/£2 less some will I know happens sometimes, I myself do not take on work like this as one they are unloyal customers and building a business is like building a house. Poor foundations most likely will not last and end up costing a fortune to put right. Build it right at the start and will stand the test of time
what you do is your own choice and is them choices you make in life that you have to live with good or bad. Please dont be patronising as this is the way you are coming across to me
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Unless your serious you won`t last 1 winter,and thinking that you can just get someone to do the work with no experience is a joke.It`s not just a question of getting a bit of work and away you go,come back in a year and tell me i`m right.
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Perhaps starting out as a painter and decorator is easy-peasy, thus, the thought that making money window-cleaning is easy-peasy :-\
This thread reminds me of the guy in 'Boys From The Black-Stuff'
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/ilove/years/1982/images/yosser173.jpg)
Gissa job, Oi can do dat......
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The word thought is about right,stumbling across this website and thinking i`ll have some of that it`s easy is foolhardy.
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Perhaps starting out as a painter and decorator is easy-peasy, thus, the thought that making money window-cleaning is easy-peasy :-\
This thread reminds me of the guy in 'boys From The Black-Stuff'
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/ilove/years/1982/images/yosser173.jpg)
Oi can do dat......
soon findout it's not as easy as everyone thinks, hence why there is still a shortage of window cleaners in the UK maybe the world, I am still looking for a window cleaner in Hitchin blowed if I can as yet.
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I can don that,Giss a job.
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I am still looking for a window cleaner in Hitchin blowed if I can as yet.
Here you are http://www.spickandspan-directory.co.uk/
;)
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I am still looking for a window cleaner in Hitchin blowed if I can as yet.
Here you are http://www.spickandspan-directory.co.uk/
;)
lol
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I understand that SOME of the points that posters are making are valid ones, however I believe the way I am trying to do this is the best way for me.
I wont earn from what Ive got at the moment, and until its been cleaned and Ive been paid a few times it will only be worth x2( worst ways) what Ive got in monthly revenue. However as long as its not eating too much it doesnt matter, as long as I can grow it, and that I believe is the key. Im under no illusions that I will lose work, but losing work is part and parcel of this business.
Bringing in work that gives a good hourly return is IMO key to success. I couldnt do this by giving up my job, it wouldnt be financially viable.
Some advice I was given on my first ever post "Dont do what I did, keep your job and build it up until you can afford to work it full time"
Perhaps starting out as a painter and decorator is easy-peasy, thus, the thought that making money window-cleaning is easy-peasy :-\
This thread reminds me of the guy in 'boys From The Black-Stuff'
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/ilove/years/1982/images/yosser173.jpg)
Oi can do dat......
?? did I say it was easy peasy... so someone wanting to enter this business who isnt cleaning their own work is a dreamer??
What I did say was that wfp is safer and not as physically demanding as working a ladder. And I know that from experience cos Ive spent a few thousand hours going up and down ladders.
Mark
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The word thought is about right,stumbling across this website and thinking i`ll have some of that it`s easy is foolhardy.
So what is this site here for?????
I have never said that its easy on any of my posts. I was in my trade for 15 years, it took me about 6 years to reach a point where I could undertake virtually anything put in front of me to a satisfactory professional standard.
But the bottom line is that i'll find out the same as everyone else does. IF it goes pearshaped then all I can say is that I wont be back down the factory driving a forklift.
I dont think it will though, you see I dont have to live off my round.
Mark
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Davo, how many properties does the £740 of work consist of?
Apart from your conservatory price it is unclear how good the work you have is without knowing how many jobs you need to do for £740.
£740 of regular cleans (20-25 hours work)
£350 of one off conservatory cleans ( 4 jobs 8 hrs work max - may stretch it)
i'll start off with the bad news, i believe your figures are way out on the income for the hours worked. If your employee is gonna achieve those figures in that amount of time with no experience you will spend your next 20 - 25 hours recleaning them.
You have taken the figures and the cream prices and came up with your answer. The reality will be very different for several months at least.
Am i wrong by thinking that you haven't done a weeks work cleaning windows yet? As your 1st post suggested that you hadn't. Are you wfp or trad? I couldn't work it out.
Your post does appear to sound like a fairytale beginning with bells on. Because of that there will be some on here who will shoot you down, while others initially sit on the fence and then join in.
Ignore that "us and them" sh!te. Many will read your posts with as much interest as they do others, regardless of what the self-proclaimed 'elite' might claim. ::)
Oh yeah, regarding your post title, competition isn't dangerous or even threatening to anyone who is doing a good job, reliably. There has always been and always will be competition, it is what makes us richer.
Best of luck with what you are doing and do keep posting updates on your situation, we can all learn a bit from your posts as you have gone straight into employer mode without being a window cleaner yourself 1st, which is very unusual.
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Davo, how many properties does the £740 of work consist of?
Apart from your conservatory price it is unclear how good the work you have is without knowing how many jobs you need to do for £740.
£740 of regular cleans (20-25 hours work)
£350 of one off conservatory cleans ( 4 jobs 8 hrs work max - may stretch it)
i'll start off with the bad news, i believe your figures are way out on the income for the hours worked. If your employee is gonna achieve those figures in that amount of time with no experience you will spend your next 20 - 25 hours recleaning them.
You have taken the figures and the cream prices and came up with your answer. The reality will be very different for several months at least.
Am i wrong by thinking that you haven't done a weeks work cleaning windows yet? As your 1st post suggested that you hadn't. Are you wfp or trad? I couldn't work it out.
Your post does appear to sound like a fairytale beginning with bells on. Because of that there will be some on here who will shoot you down, while others initially sit on the fence and then join in.
Ignore that "us and them" sh!te. Many will read your posts with as much interest as they do others, regardless of what the self-proclaimed 'elite' might claim. ::)
Oh yeah, regarding your post title, competition isn't dangerous or even threatening to anyone who is doing a good job, reliably. There has always been and always will be competition, it is what makes us richer.
Best of luck with what you are doing and do keep posting updates on your situation, we can all learn a bit from your posts as you have gone straight into employer mode without being a window cleaner yourself 1st, which is very unusual.
Heres how the work breaks down.
5 blocks of area covered so travelling time to each block will vary from 15 mins to 40 mins but the work in each area is compact.
Block 1 1 job £170 4 weekly on most of it weekly for small part 8 big windows 2 glazed doors.
Block 2 1 job £108 6 weekly shelterred housing wardens bit done free others work out at £1 a week per flat 4 windows per flat couple have extra 2 windows( not doing every flat )
Block 3 13 jobs £139 6 weekly
Block 4 29 jobs £183 6 weekly
Block 5 8 jobs £132 6 weekly
Block 2 10 mins away from block 4
Block 5 40 mins away from base and hour away from blocks 2 and 4.
It will be wfp .
Mark
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Just a footnote to add to this work canvassing issue.
I spent some time walking a couple of the areas a week or so before before I knocked them. Zone 5 I found when I went with a friend of mine while she had har car serviced. Out in the middle of nowhere bout 50-60 houses windows absolutely minging. That was about a month into reading this forum on a regular basis.
I did my research before I went knocking and to be honest I thought I would have picked up more domestic.
I found that customers where I picked up the highest number of jobs were happy to spend a £1 a week for window cleaning and it wasnt high end prop. Wasnt council either cos I think that council will have been battered.
The £170 job I have known the owner for 30 odd years.
Sheltered housing I dealt with a resident with my job. got talking to the warden they didnt t have a window cleaner( Had someone who stopped calling begining of this year)
Mark
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I did my research before I went knocking and to be honest I thought I would have picked up more domestic.
I found that customers where I picked up the highest number of jobs were happy to spend a £1 a week for window cleaning and it wasnt high end prop. Wasnt council either cos I think that council will have been battered.
Mark
Mark
Are you are saying you are charging your customers £1 a week for window cleaning, if so then I'm not surprised you picked up so much work.
The other thing to remember is when a window cleaner has left an area, its normally for a good reason, like low paid work or arkward customers who like to say "not this time, next time would be better dear"
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I did my research before I went knocking and to be honest I thought I would have picked up more domestic.
I found that customers where I picked up the highest number of jobs were happy to spend a £1 a week for window cleaning and it wasnt high end prop. Wasnt council either cos I think that council will have been battered.
Mark
Mark
Are you are saying you are charging your customers £1 a week for window cleaning, if so then I'm not surprised you picked up so much work.
The other thing to remember is when a window cleaner has left an area, its normally for a good reason, like low paid work or arkward customers who like to say "not this time, next time would be better dear"
if that is true come and subwork from me i'll pay you double ;D
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Mark
Are you are saying you are charging your customers £1 a week for window cleaning, if so then I'm not surprised you picked up so much work.
The other thing to remember is when a window cleaner has left an area, its normally for a good reason, like low paid work or arkward customers who like to say "not this time, next time would be better dear
Yes many of the terraced properties I quoted em £6 a clean 3 windows front 4 back.
done every 6 weeks. A seasoned wfp er how long? 5 mins a front.... tops . then backs ( although they will be cleaned backs first.
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Mark
Are you are saying you are charging your customers £1 a week for window cleaning, if so then I'm not surprised you picked up so much work.
The other thing to remember is when a window cleaner has left an area, its normally for a good reason, like low paid work or arkward customers who like to say "not this time, next time would be better dear
Yes many of the terraced properties I quoted em £6 a clean 3 windows front 4 back.
done every 6 weeks. A seasoned wfp er how long? 5 mins a front.... tops . then backs ( although they will be cleaned backs first.
As in block 4 . The other blocks were different prop
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you do know stan is dead and died a poor man ;)
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you do know stan is dead and died a poor man ;)
Ian can you clean 7 windows wfp in 10 minutes?
I suspect the answer is yes. 10 minutes work for £6 works out £36 an hour.
£20 a house (7 windows) would have been good but I dont think many would have gone for that.
And btw stan died a very very wealthy man, he had millions of pounds worth of love from hilda in his heart.
Mark
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dont forget travelling time, setting up , packing away and collecting payments people talking to you,on their own it does not seem a lot but it all eats away at your £? per hourly rate when they happen several times a day.
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you do know stan is dead and died a poor man ;)
Ian can you clean 7 windows wfp in 10 minutes?
I suspect the answer is yes. 10 minutes work for £6 works out £36 an hour.
£20 a house (7 windows) would have been good but I dont think many would have gone for that.
And btw stan died a very very wealthy man, he had millions of pounds worth of love from hilda in his heart.
Mark
Actually it doesn't work out to anything like that amount. you are kidding yourself if you think it does.
I could give you a very long and detailed post as to why that isn't so, but it just takes too long!
If you work on the ball park figure of 4 houses per hour, standard sized semi's that is, and you won't go far wrong.
10 minutes a house is just about right......for an experienced window cleaner that is.
There is so much more to WFP than meets the eye, and to get a top notch job done in just 10 minutes is without a shadow of a doubt a skill that takes time to develop.
And even when you get the job done to a good standard in that time, you are not going to average 6 houses an hour, there are just too many variables.
And bear in mind that you are working at the top end of the speed work can be done in.
On a housing association, if you are only charging the equivalent of a pound a flat then you are a long way under priced, all you'll end out doing is shooting yourself in the foot in the long run.
Ian
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you do know stan is dead and died a poor man ;)
Ian can you clean 7 windows wfp in 10 minutes?
I suspect the answer is yes. 10 minutes work for £6 works out £36 an hour.
£20 a house (7 windows) would have been good but I dont think many would have gone for that.
And btw stan died a very very wealthy man, he had millions of pounds worth of love from hilda in his heart.
Mark
if it takes 10mins per house you will not be getting £36 an hour you forgot the time in between cleans etc etc etc.
from the way you write you will be learning the hard way, I respect what you are doing and will help anyway I can but please open your eyes a little more and listen to what replies you get on here as these will help you in the future.
Good luck by the way and I honestly hope it works out for you.
Ian
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Thankyou for the replies.
Ian ( windowwashers) I am listening please dont think Im not as I have said before, I have found the information posted on here invaluable, Im just giving you my reasoning as to the £6 price, and in the future I can either up the price per clean or change it to 8 weekly, I will get some wrong thats the business of pricing and I appreciate it is experience which helps to minimise the risks.
But its not a "oh I do em for £2.50 every 2 weeks price"
Ian (Giles) the sheltered housing works out at £1.25 a window.
Mark
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I can't really fault anything you've done or said. I would expect a painter and decorater to be good, or soon become good at quoting and dealing with people.
If you got the sack, were made redundant, your wife left you, or any of the life changing things that usually alter our choices you would definitely 100% succeed.
Even hating your present job and on £6 an hour you would have a better chance. As it is I don't think you stand any chance at all.
If I were in your shoes (as you've described your circumstances) I would put out, or get people to put out for me, leaflets, and advertise in a directory. I assume you know the obvious stuff like open a business account (use Abbey). Call divert costs £1.70 a month.(diverts calls to your mobile).
Don't think I'm knocking you because I'm not. We had a plumber on here once who was helping his window cleaning son, and talking about growth he said something to the effect that with his employees (in the plumbing business) he had turn to over twelve grand a week to achieve or beat the £1,500 to £2,000
pw he could earn with just a mate. He couldn't get his lads to work Saturdays because he paid them too well and they didn't need to, and as a consequence turned away a lot of profitable work.
Not sure how relevant that was, but to succeed you are going to have to expand rapidly.
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Wow great post where do i start this is going to take all night.
I have been cleaning windows water fed pole's since 2002/2003 .i started with a 700 ltr tucker pole dueal system 2 man set up.
All i needed then was the custemrs easy peasy millions of houses,commercial properties around here ill get the lot right ?
I have cleaned every window possible with wfp ive gone back over windows again and again to learn what can and cant be done with wfp..............
Ive done conservatories,pubs,schools,ive cleaned windows on factories for KRAFT going up 80feet with poles ive cleaned houses with lead glass windows some having 200 panes, ive even cleaned luvre windows on a horse stable which had 400 of the little bliters all day in the rain standing in horse dung mmm nice.
So firstly “sub contracting” your van ,your equipment......wrong hes your emploee so you should be providing the following
His employees liability insurance fron around £50-100 per month,all his running costs of his vehicle and tools.
His national insurance contributions and your contributions to his national insurance about £50 per week
His income tax on the earnings your saying he “turns over” roughly about £200 ish a week
So taking all of this into consideration and also the following
Most properties have closed gate access so you need to get your ladder off to undo the bolt time consuming.......then you need to set up and put away the equipment and then travel between jobs. You also need to take into account the weather...it rains for a week hard your not cleaning 6 houses in an hour and you have not earned anything for a whole week.....your then behind with your round .............and once it stops raining and you able to get back to work you are then behind because the clocks have gone back and all of a sudden the 6 houses an hour you were doing in june cannot now be done in december as youve run out of daylight by 4 o'clock..
Oh and the customers are not in for you to collect payment what do you do?
Collect another evening or leave an envelope...with a stamp or not?
Once your back on top you fall ill or the person who works for you does 6 houses an hour? Its not happening
Oh and your pump has broke down and you cant get a replacemnt till Monday..oops you need it for the weekend as youve got that conservatory to do oh itll get done next week in between all those other window cleaning jobs youve got planned.
Right how easy this window cleaning is huh............................................ ive given away jobs ....ive even turned down a £5,000 cleaning job let someone else have the hassle ..........
The biggest job i do at the moment is a block of flats 70 of them and i do another 30 blocks ,i do all the tall buildings in my area and ive never lost a customer to someone trying to undercut me why
I have a rapport with them all im courteous,happy,helpful,and i give them something no else can ................ peace of mind and service which they didn't have before me thats why they use me after all
In April i was out of work myself for 4 months with double pneumonia and pluerisy, and guess what i had all the insurance it the world but it still dosent cover most day to day running costs yeah your mortgage,food bills etc but it dosent stop customers leaving you and no not 1 of mine did they even had others knock the door and say they would do it “cheap” but they all stayed loyal after all this time.
To make quick easy money by cleaning and under cutting yeah we could all do that if that happens to me i go back and do it free.
To build a good business ,and keep customers year after year,clean windows when your fingers are frost bitten,to wait months and months for payment time and time again takes a long time to achieve .
Ive tried all the quick fast ways,,,employed people, dropped £5 houses and done £50 houses in the same time as the £5 ones and i still cant do 6 an hour all day every day ................. ive been on courses abseiled,used platforms the lot and i still cant do it
so if you can good luck and happy cleaning ill see you around in another 5 years because i know i will be
Steve
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I can't really fault anything you've done or said. I would expect a painter and decorater to be good, or soon become good at quoting and dealing with people.
If you got the sack, were made redundant, your wife left you, or any of the life changing things that usually alter our choices you would definitely 100% succeed.
Even hating your present job and on £6 an hour you would have a better chance. As it is I don't think you stand any chance at all.
If I were in your shoes (as you've described your circumstances) I would put out, or get people to put out for me, leaflets, and advertise in a directory. I assume you know the obvious stuff like open a business account (use Abbey). Call divert costs £1.70 a month.(diverts calls to your mobile).
Don't think I'm knocking you because I'm not. We had a plumber on here once who was helping his window cleaning son, and talking about growth he said something to the effect that with his employees (in the plumbing business) he had turn to over twelve grand a week to achieve or beat the £1,500 to £2,000
pw he could earn with just a mate. He couldn't get his lads to work Saturdays because he paid them too well and they didn't need to, and as a consequence turned away a lot of profitable work.
Not sure how relevant that was, but to succeed you are going to have to expand rapidly.
VG Youve hit the nail right on the head, it is totally dependant on expansion especially on 6 week call cycles. But without going into detail I have already addressed this problem, in my business plan it was an issue that came up in the very early initial stages. Its also one of the reasons I chose a non window cleaner who already has a job(income) to do the work.
Mr Ian Giles you state in your post that 10 minutes is the average time for a competent up to speed wfper to clean an average semi, these are small terraced prop, all very close together. Also I hope over time to pick up more work on this particular zone ( theres a few gaps between some of the houses.)
But taking into consideration what has been said I think it will produce minimum £20 hour
Mark
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Easyclean (Steve) thankyou very much for that post.
Mark
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But taking into consideration what has been said I think it will produce minimum £20 hour
yes, that is a feasible base figure. Then you have your expenses on top of that.
You will eventually have clumps of hours where you are doubling that but overall £20 p/h is approximately about right. Before expenses.
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Mark
Are you are saying you are charging your customers £1 a week for window cleaning, if so then I'm not surprised you picked up so much work.
The other thing to remember is when a window cleaner has left an area, its normally for a good reason, like low paid work or arkward customers who like to say "not this time, next time would be better dear
Yes many of the terraced properties I quoted em £6 a clean 3 windows front 4 back.
done every 6 weeks. A seasoned wfp er how long? 5 mins a front.... tops . then backs ( although they will be cleaned backs first.
Davo
When I first started wfp cleaning 4 years ago, I went out and knocked doors, the streets I picked on were the old style terrace back to back houses with alleyway in between them to access the back.
I too charge £6.00 a house front and back, I too thought that if I get enough in one street then my hourly rate would increase.
I was very sucessful with the door knocking, around about 20 house per street, on one street I had over 60 houses, yip pee I thought "this time next year I will be a millionair"
Then the bubble burst when I started cleaning them, firstly cleanimng the fronts is easy peasy, providing they have double glazing and good plastics, alas some did not, they had old rotten wooden frames with the paint flaking off.
You try cleaning one of these, it can take upto 30 minutes just to get the fronts, streak and spot free.
Then I had to do the backs, now the alleyways are normally locked so you have to find a keyholder to open it for you, then you find that the householders like to store every piece of junk there, so if you use a trolley, you end up trying to carry it over rubbish, bikes, prams and the odd bedroom suite.
After that you find that in their small backyards they insist on having millions of pot plants, and I can assure you, your hose will lassoo every single one.
You will find that it take at least 3 cleans before these windows are perfect and these cleans will take a lot longer than you have planned for.
If you move the cleaning date to 8 weeks instead of 6 then they will be dirtier when you turn up and therfore longer to clean.
If you want to earn good money from these type of propertys I would recomend that you charge £3.00 for the fronts and £7.00 extra if they want the backs done, but check the access first.
I would change your cleaning times to a 4 week rota because at 4 weeks they start to show the dirt.
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Mark
Are you are saying you are charging your customers £1 a week for window cleaning, if so then I'm not surprised you picked up so much work.
The other thing to remember is when a window cleaner has left an area, its normally for a good reason, like low paid work or arkward customers who like to say "not this time, next time would be better dear
Yes many of the terraced properties I quoted em £6 a clean 3 windows front 4 back.
done every 6 weeks. A seasoned wfp er how long? 5 mins a front.... tops . then backs ( although they will be cleaned backs first.
Davo
When I first started wfp cleaning 4 years ago, I went out and knocked doors, the streets I picked on were the old style terrace back to back houses with alleyway in between them to access the back.
I too charge £6.00 a house front and back, I too thought that if I get enough in one street then my hourly rate would increase.
I was very sucessful with the door knocking, around about 20 house per street, on one street I had over 60 houses, yip pee I thought "this time next year I will be a millionair"
Then the bubble burst when I started cleaning them, firstly cleanimng the fronts is easy peasy, providing they have double glazing and good plastics, alas some did not, they had old rotten wooden frames with the paint flaking off.
You try cleaning one of these, it can take upto 30 minutes just to get the fronts, streak and spot free.
Then I had to do the backs, now the alleyways are normally locked so you have to find a keyholder to open it for you, then you find that the householders like to store every piece of junk there, so if you use a trolley, you end up trying to carry it over rubbish, bikes, prams and the odd bedroom suite.
After that you find that in their small backyards they insist on having millions of pot plants, and I can assure you, your hose will lassoo every single one.
You will find that it take at least 3 cleans before these windows are perfect and these cleans will take a lot longer than you have planned for.
If you move the cleaning date to 8 weeks instead of 6 then they will be dirtier when you turn up and therfore longer to clean.
If you want to earn good money from these type of propertys I would recomend that you charge £3.00 for the fronts and £7.00 extra if they want the backs done, but check the access first.
I would change your cleaning times to a 4 week rota because at 4 weeks they start to show the dirt.
WILLMX IS BANG ON WITH THAT POST ;)
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Yeah but he did miss a bit!
I did this last year and was taking about £200 a week last December but I was trad. After the first clean nobody is home so you can't do the backs unless you climb the wall. The yards are full of dog muck that you have to weave around and then as you are finished your last house a druggies is knocking on you first house offering to do it for £3.00 or even £2.00
If I was you davo I would stay right away from them because they are murder and stick to your semi detached houses.
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Yeah but he did miss a bit!
I did this last year and was taking about £200 a week last December but I was trad. After the first clean nobody is home so you can't do the backs unless you climb the wall. The yards are full of dog muck that you have to weave around and then as you are finished your last house a druggies is knocking on you first house offering to do it for £3.00 or even £2.00
If I was you davo I would stay right away from them because they are murder and stick to your semi detached houses.
Colley, you cant label everyone with a terrace house like that, I own one myself and tenants have a window cleaner, I understand what you mean in reagrds to drug users but many of them pay good money as they earn more than us, you have to judge people hard as it may sound but it true. other companies do and we are no different, and for the people that say we are only window cleaners (learn to run your business as one)
rant over!
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I'm not knocking the people who live in terraced houses at all I used to own one and really enjoyed the sense of community that swelled in the street. The point I'm trying to make is that I had two separate lots of terraced houses and both were targeted by rouge traders constantly. I was charging £4 a house and couldn't get prices any higher because the people in the houses wouldn't pay any more than that. I was paying for all my insurances and stuff and I had two guys going around whilst my back was turned offering to clean my customers windows front and back for £2.00. One guy used to wear a bum bag with a can of tennants super sticking out the front and a funny fAg hanging out of his mouth and the other who targeted my other work was a painter and decorator who got banned from driving for drink driving so decided he would knick my work.
I had spent hours building the round up and soon was losing my work at around %25 of my custom per clean. Until I got sick of it and moved on to pastures new.
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I'm not knocking the people who live in terraced houses at all I used to own one and really enjoyed the sense of community that swelled in the street. The point I'm trying to make is that I had two separate lots of terraced houses and both were targeted by rouge traders constantly. I was charging £4 a house and couldn't get prices any higher because the people in the houses wouldn't pay any more than that. I was paying for all my insurances and stuff and I had two guys going around whilst my back was turned offering to clean my customers windows front and back for £2.00. One guy used to wear a bum bag with a can of tennants super sticking out the front and a funny f*g hanging out of his mouth and the other who targeted my other work was a painter and decorator who got banned from driving for drink driving so decided he would knick my work.
I had spent hours building the round up and soon was losing my work at around %25 of my custom per clean. Until I got sick of it and moved on to pastures new.
that say alot about the customer base to be hinest, I get people all the time under cutting my prices I dont ever come down. I am a professional window cleaner and so are my staff I pay them a good wage and in turn they have to do a good job (if they dont the cancel comes out of their wages) harsh but true.
seems you got the wrong customer base from what you say, people that go for a cheaper window cleaner are not the customers you want (you will already know this)
from what you said about the idiot with dd and £2 a house let him do it, move on there are plenty more houses and idiots like that die out every quick. I could go right into this as it annoys the hell out of me that siome idiots try and make a fast buck undercharge and leave soon after (get us registered as professional window cleaners and it would stop, Gordon if you read this sort it out ;)
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I`m aslo not knocking these types of houses,but as far as WC goes and making money it won`t happen cleaning these types of houses.You might get good money doing a row of terrace houses but by seeking quaility work you`ll probobly find 1 rural detatched house would equate to a whole row of terrace houses in money terms.
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I`m aslo not knocking these types of houses,but as far as WC goes and making money it won`t happen cleaning these types of houses.You might get good money doing a row of terrace houses but by seeking quaility work you`ll probobly find 1 rural detatched house would equate to a whole row of terrace houses in money terms.
that would I guess depend on what yuo charge , houses in this sticks cost more in travel IMO
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2 good houses in the sticks can be worth more than 20 in the town.
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In response to the last few posts ( I cant cut and paste em all ) That is some of the best information and advice I have read on this forum ( and Ive read a hell of a lot)
williamx its the exact same prop as you describe. Next canvassing run is fronts only £3/ 4 weekly, I'll stick with this work to generate income, for cleaner to develop his skill.
And upon reflection its gonna take 9-12 months longer than I originally estimated to bring in enough decent semi affluent prop to earn enough to become a viable full time round (the way im working it)
Many thanks
Mark
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2 good houses in the sticks can be worth more than 20 in the town.
that would depend on the size, I do 100's in towns and I cant complain about the prices and dont have to drive to the sticks ;)
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In response to the last few posts ( I cant cut and paste em all ) That is some of the best information and advice I have read on this forum ( and Ive read a hell of a lot)
williamx its the exact same prop as you describe. Next canvassing run is fronts only £3/ 4 weekly, I'll stick with this work to generate income, for cleaner to develop his skill.
And upon reflection its gonna take 9-12 months longer than I originally estimated to bring in enough decent semi affluent prop to earn enough to become a viable full time round (the way im working it)
Many thanks
Mark
Mark only tip I can give as you seem like a guy that knows what he wants/ only not the trade he wants in in,. Put up you prices even if you do this buy £1 a house you will thank me for it ;)
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In response to the last few posts ( I cant cut and paste em all ) That is some of the best information and advice I have read on this forum ( and Ive read a hell of a lot)
williamx its the exact same prop as you describe. Next canvassing run is fronts only £3/ 4 weekly, I'll stick with this work to generate income, for cleaner to develop his skill.
And upon reflection its gonna take 9-12 months longer than I originally estimated to bring in enough decent semi affluent prop to earn enough to become a viable full time round (the way im working it)
Many thanks
Mark
Mark
I forgot one very important thing, on the first cleans, charge them double their monthly rate at least.
The reasons for this are that
1, The first time you clean them it will take you at least double the time, and most times longer.
2, When you knock doors, a lot of them do want their windows cleaned, but they only want it cleaned when they want, so the next time you turn up they don't want you, they will then ask you again in about 6 months when they are minging again.
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Mark
You said you will be using wfp, but what type of system will you use, this is important, because some systems are better for some jobs than others and they all have their limitations.
For instance you have a road with 100 houses down each side, you manage to get 20 of them, but these 20 are spead all over the road.
With these roads, I have found that parking is at a premium, so the correct wfp system is vital.
For instance you have a van mounted system, which means you need to park within 120 metres of the job and this might not be possible, also you have hoses all over the place, which will snag on anything, its also a major trip hazard.
You use a trolley which holds 50 litres of water, the refils are left in your vechicle at the end of the street, 50 litres of water on a 1st clean, will clean maybe 5 houses, fronts only, or 2 front and backs, so out of these 20 houses you will have to go back to your vechicle 4 times if its fronts only or 10 times if its front and backs.
If you use a backpack, these only hold 18 litres, so you will be going back to your vechicle more often.
All of this is time comsuming and tiring.
Because all of this is time comsurming its going to effect the profit margin in your prices.
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Mark (Davo),
It will be interesting to see if you are still around in 6 - 9 months time.
No offence intended.
Andy
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I agree it will be interesting to see if he can succeed, I don't think he can on his terms. He will still be around imo but more hands on and involved than he thinks he will be.
The other thing we haven't gone into is investment.
Decent Van £8000
system production of water poles van mount £4000
Leaflets adverts signwriting £2000
You say you've written a business plan Davo, what figures did you use for the above?
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Hi all, dont right on here alot, but sometimes I feel I have too. My point is simple, people who use wfp systems, can not, and should not, call themselves window cleaners, Ive earned the right to this profession, by hard work and etc.... Someone who goes out and buys a brush that pumps out water, is a far cry from any kind of window cleaner that I know. Ive pick up so much work from wfp systems, simply coz it dont clean as good as hands on. And just lately, Ive heard a lot of people saying that ladders are going to be banned....LOL..... What a load of crap, these rumours are made up by the people with brushes that push out water.......And cant claim to be anything but a gloryfied road sweeper. Thats off my chest now, dont get me wrong, if it earns you good money, its got to be a good thing, but for us, its ladders and cherry pickers....... Thanks for reading
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Clevs you don`t write on here much your correct,your probobly out ALL DAY climbing that poxy ladder mate LOL. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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if it's not window cleaning what is it?? we brush windows clean with pure water!! I understand where you're coming from clevs and in most cases of life the hands on approach is better, but suprisingly ( just turned wfp so know about trad ) it does do a better job. I still trad some bungalows because it's easier and I really do see the difference. Frames come out much nicer and glass really sparkles. And wfp isn't new clevs, it has been around since the 50's
(http://lh3.google.co.uk/rupertthehair/Rp0m3ojnlWI/AAAAAAAAAew/W-LNUNgA_zE/image0.jpg?imgmax=512)
Wfp is a tried and tested method of window cleaning and has been proved very well by thousands of window cleaners. Before I was wfp, I would see jobs done by a wfp wc in my area, and the clean was so much superior to trad, it just sparkles. The principle of wfp is simple, as you said a pole with a brush!!! Maybe neither option ( wfp & trad ) is the perfect solution, but wfp is just that step closer. Luke
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And just lately, Ive heard a lot of people saying that ladders are going to be banned....LOL..... What a load of crap, these rumours are made up by the people with brushes that push out water.......And cant claim to be anything but a gloryfied road sweeper.
LOL
What are you then? A glorified litter picker?
Andy
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Hi all, dont right on here alot, but sometimes I feel I have too. My point is simple, people who use wfp systems, can not, and should not, call themselves window cleaners, Ive earned the right to this profession, by hard work and etc.... Someone who goes out and buys a brush that pumps out water, is a far cry from any kind of window cleaner that I know. Ive pick up so much work from wfp systems, simply coz it dont clean as good as hands on. And just lately, Ive heard a lot of people saying that ladders are going to be banned....LOL..... What a load of crap, these rumours are made up by the people with brushes that push out water.......And cant claim to be anything but a gloryfied road sweeper. Thats off my chest now, dont get me wrong, if it earns you good money, its got to be a good thing, but for us, its ladders and cherry pickers....... Thanks for reading
I do trad work and will be doing wfp aswell both clean windows so both are classed as window cleaning, you I guess do not want to change to wfp that is your choice m8 but times change and the work you pick up from others using wfp is more than likely they are not doing it right. if ladders do get banned you well and truly in the stink ( I am not saying they are at all but if you read the details you will see that you should use other methods before using a ladder. Things change maybe you should look into it ;)
And just lately, Ive heard a lot of people saying that ladders are going to be banned....LOL..... What a load of crap, these rumours are made up by the people with brushes that push out water.......And cant claim to be anything but a gloryfied road sweeper.
LOL
What are you then? A glorified litter picker?
Andy
I can see this getting messy lol
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Hi all, dont right on here alot, but sometimes I feel I have too. My point is simple, people who use wfp systems, can not, and should not, call themselves window cleaners, Ive earned the right to this profession, by hard work and etc.... Someone who goes out and buys a brush that pumps out water, is a far cry from any kind of window cleaner that I know. Ive pick up so much work from wfp systems, simply coz it dont clean as good as hands on. And just lately, Ive heard a lot of people saying that ladders are going to be banned....LOL..... What a load of crap, these rumours are made up by the people with brushes that push out water.......And cant claim to be anything but a gloryfied road sweeper. Thats off my chest now, dont get me wrong, if it earns you good money, its got to be a good thing, but for us, its ladders and cherry pickers....... Thanks for reading
For a moment i thought that was an old Squeeky post ;D
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My point is simple, people who use wfp systems, can not, and should not, call themselves window cleaners, Ive earned the right to this profession, by hard work and etc....
I have over 25 years experence in cleaning windows, I have put in long, cold and very wets days cleaning windows.
I have used triple ladders to reach windows that any normal person would consider dam right dangerous, I have had a few heart stopping moments as well, but I am lucky, I'm still alive and walking, there are a lot of cleaners who are not.
I started using wfp 4 years ago, and when I first started I made mistakes that left the windows in a terrible condition, but now I am a PROFESSIONAL WFP WINDOW CLEANER, my standard of work is second to none, and I can honestly say that I do an excellent cleaning job.
Me and all the other Wfp cleaners have also earned our right and respect to be called "window cleaners".
The only difference beween us and some trad cleaners, is we don't have tunnel vision, we will embrace new methods and technology and not live in the past all the time.
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I have over 25 years experence in cleaning windows, I have put in long, cold and very wets days cleaning windows.
I have used triple ladders to reach windows that any normal person would consider dam right dangerous, I have had a few heart stopping moments as well, but I am lucky, I'm still alive and walking, there are a lot of cleaners who are not.
Must admit he has got it spot on. I've cleaned windows for ten years myself and have spent my time up ladders far beyond the point that a health and safety officer would like to see me working at. I have also spent a lot of time using wfp's and I absolutely love them. I personally can't understand how you can't call a professional window cleaner a professional window cleaner, no matter what method he uses. I mean did people get this much stick for using a squeegee?
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He`s made me feel so guilty i`m going back to scrimming everything from now on,am i B0770ck5 LOL. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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lol ;D A window cleaner is a window cleaner. I've converted the most adamant window cleaner to the concept of wfp because I talk about how good it is so much!
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I agree it will be interesting to see if he can succeed, I don't think he can on his terms. He will still be around imo but more hands on and involved than he thinks he will be.
The other thing we haven't gone into is investment.
Decent Van £8000
system production of water poles van mount £4000
Leaflets adverts signwriting £2000
You say you've written a business plan Davo, what figures did you use for the above?
Van £3k
Water Purification £600
Trolley systen inc wfp £!k
Leaflets £175
VG this is initial investment
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People.....stick to the point of Davo's thread please, if you wish to subvert this topic to trad v WFP, please start another topic to do so.
Further replies regarding which is best will be deleted.
Ian
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Mark (Davo),
It will be interesting to see if you are still around in 6 - 9 months time.
No offence intended.
Andy
No offence taken. Ive had it when I was decorating
" Decorating now theres a job. I quite like doing a bit of decorating Did my sister/brothers/aunties etc etc done a really good job and I can paper . Papered the back bedroom really easy that"
Stick em up triples with a breeze goin...... yeah easy. Work 14 hour days for 10 days to bring a job in on time. Work through the night to get it finished cos the furnitures coming 2 days early and theres nowhere to store it. Yep its a doddle!
Ive never said this job was easy , every job is hard if you want to do it right and earn properley.
What I did say is that its definately safer .
Mark
Mark
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Mark
I personally think that the customers you will be targetting , with the prices you are charging and also employing someone to do them is a serious business mistake.
These customers and prices are ok if you are doing them on your own, but with the added expense of employing someone, and also someone who has to learn the trade as well is fatal.
The type of property you need to look at are the larger propertys, where its takes at least an hour to clean, that way you can price your work by the hour.
In you business plan you should have worked out how much you need to turn over just to cover the costs you will incure, then you add a bit more for a modest profit.
You have read a lot on this forum that has convinced you that you can make a sucessful business by running a window cleaning business.
It is possible to run a sucessful business, but it does take a long time and a lot of costly mistakes to make it work.
You have no experence in wfp cleaning and the many pitfalls that go with it, this is a major flaw in any business, you need to know at first hand what the work involves.
I would suggest that you go with someone, for a couple of days or weeks at least, to find out what your employee is likely to come across, so when he hits a problem, at least you will have an answer.
You will suceed if you have determination, but you will suceed faster if you go about it in the right way.
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Davo,
I get the feeling that people are having little digs at you because of your original post on the board. I must admit that when I read that I was fuming but have read your posts since and realized that you meant nothing by it. I had not read any other posts written by you and when I read your first post it seemed you were trying to insult us.
For my post I posted I have said I'm sorry but am unsure if your aware that it was aimed at you also ( the sorry that is!)
The thing is when reading your first post when you say you took work from another window cleaner it looks as if you mean you deliberately targeted somebody else's work now if thats not what you meant I feel people are having digs at you because of it.
Davo again I'm sorry for posting that I think your scum. I don't feel that way at all. I simply over reacted to what I read and when going back to read it I have come to the conclusion that its easy to take your statement the wrong way. If you can accept my apology for using such strong language then I hope we can put it behind us.
Keith.
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Hi all, dont right on here alot, but sometimes I feel I have too. My point is simple, people who use wfp systems, can not, and should not, call themselves window cleaners, Ive earned the right to this profession, by hard work and etc.... Someone who goes out and buys a brush that pumps out water, is a far cry from any kind of window cleaner that I know. Ive pick up so much work from wfp systems, simply coz it dont clean as good as hands on. And just lately, Ive heard a lot of people saying that ladders are going to be banned....LOL..... What a load of crap, these rumours are made up by the people with brushes that push out water.......And cant claim to be anything but a gloryfied road sweeper. Thats off my chest now, dont get me wrong, if it earns you good money, its got to be a good thing, but for us, its ladders and cherry pickers....... Thanks for reading
Hahaha.
Are you Roger in disguise?
Well I suppose I earned the right to go for WFP by shinning up ladders for 14 years myself. I used to view WFP with a lot of scepticism too. Even in my first few months I was a bit uncertain of it and it took a while for me to adapt - both my technique and the business. I do my six weekly round in four weeks these days and I am nowhere near as knackered as I used to be cleaning traditionally. I have not had any complaints about my work in ages now so presumably I've started getting the hang of it.
This isn't what I really want to say though. In the last three days a couple of things have happened that have re-affirmed that I made the right choice. First of all I got a phone call from another window cleaner to quote for a job that he can't do from a ladder (not a reflection on him as I wouldn't do it from a ladder either). It's a decent sized job so I quoted a decent sized price. Not too high, not too low. I think it's pretty fair. Presumably he will make his bit on top. He will be doing the insides while I do the outsides. That looks like being a quarterly job. He also put me onto another couple of jobs (rather smaller than this one) that he was also unable to do. I have had enquiries like this from other W/Cs occasionally too. Getting work from other W/Cs was not something I anticipated when I started with WFP but it has happened a few times now.
Also, yesterday, I picked up three new jobs in a road where I've been working for years. This was because of a signwritten van and because an existing customer had been telling some of her neighbours that my "road sweeping broom" did a beautiful job on her windows. It's been one of those weeks when I've picked up about £250 worth of work when I wasn't even chasing it. Not one of the jobs I've picked up could have been done in full without WFP. At least one window would have been left doing them traditionally and in one case, almost the entire top floor would have been impossible. OK so it could have been done with a picker but the cost of hiring it would have been far higher than using WFP. Apart from that a MEWP license would have been needed plus an expensive insurance upgrade.
Oh yes. Before I forget. I travel between jobs with one of those new fangled horseless carriage things. ;)
I hope you read my post in good humour because that's how it's been written.
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People.....stick to the point of Davo's thread please, if you wish to subvert this topic to trad v WFP, please start another topic to do so.
Further replies regarding which is best will be deleted.
Ian
Ian.
Sorry mate.
I replied to that post before getting down this far.
Mind you, I've replied appropriately I think.
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Keith - theres no problem Ive read many of your posts and you come across as a very fair decent young man. Im not here to offend anyone, Im not a window cleaner, and thats isnt because I think in anyway that the work is beneath me. I was afterall a decorator, and proud of my trade.
In no way whatsoever do I look down my nose at anyone, especially decent hard working members of this forum. I do not think this job( or any other for that matter), done properly is easy (Its a hell of alot safer than it was though).
You take care keith and keep busy down there in warrington.
As for the digs I can handle those, :)
Mark
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Keith - theres no problem Ive read many of your posts and you come across as a very fair decent young man. Im not here to offend anyone, Im not a window cleaner, and thats isnt because I think in anyway that the work is beneath me. I was afterall a decorator, and proud of my trade.
In no way whatsoever do I look down my nose at anyone, especially decent hard working members of this forum. I do not think this job( or any other for that matter), done properly is easy (Its a hell of alot safer than it was though).
You take care keith and keep busy down there in warrington.
As for the digs I can handle those, :)
Mark
No digs from me but there is a lot of sound advice on here about what you propose. The best of it is that you really ought to go out there and go hands on with the window cleaning so that you have personal experience of the potential pitfalls. I believe that by doing this you will have more chance of achieving your goals and reduce the risk of falling flat on your face. A lot of the other advice is sound as well but IMO, the above is the most important bit.
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I just wanted to be the 100th reply on this thread LOL. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post 101
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If I delete 2 of my posts then I will be number 100 8)
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Thread locked.
Oh, hang on... I'm not a mod. ;D
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The digs keep it interesting and you get to the nubb of the argument faster.
Your original post was quite combustable as mentioned by others but you have stood your ground and given straightforward replies. My view is that people like you, williamx, colley, shiner,nwh (and probably that bloke who had the rant about trad)would make it in any business by dint of persistence and hard work.
But I also think that if you stick around you are going to have to get your hands dirty.
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Anyway Davo I'd like you to quote for a decorating job
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Did you know the cleaners of the sydney opera house still use squeegees, infact they use wagtails on poles, Luke
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davo, fair play for hanging in there your figures do seem ok. But like williamx says, your figures do seem to be ok on the basis of you working it as a sole trader. Your expenses are almost identical to mine, infact a little more so you have some scope there.
Though you have missed out employers liability (i was quoted £1184 last year) and the other expenses of having an employee, unless you have a way around that which others like me don't know about. Unless its cash in hand for you.
You have nothing to lose really as you have an income independant of window cleaning, so what the hell, why not go for it?
I dunno why people have got upset with your original post? Because other people on here have posted about taking work off other window cleaners and apart from the taboo of undercutting to get it, the general consensus seems to be that is business.
It's hard to run any business where you don't know the ins an outs of the service but you do seem to have put alot of research into this. Although i do agree that you will need to get your hands dirty. I hope you keep posting on your progress as it's very bold to go straight into it as an employer.
But who dares wins and all that.
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It`s not that we all got the ump with him personally it was the way he came across with ideas about different things to do with our business when he hasn`t even picked up a squeegee.
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It`s not that we all got the ump with him personally it was the way he came across with ideas about different things to do with our business when he hasn`t even picked up a squeegee.
yeah, i agree with you but it's good when things get stirred up a bit.
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.
Though you have missed out employers liability (i was quoted £1184 last year) and the other expenses of having an employee, unless you have a way around that which others like me don't know about.
I think I may have a way round this problem, it probably wouldnt work for many on here , but Im very flexible in my approach. However I will definately NOT be employing anybody.
I dont need that headache.
Mark
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.
Though you have missed out employers liability (i was quoted £1184 last year) and the other expenses of having an employee, unless you have a way around that which others like me don't know about.
I think I may have a way round this problem, it probably wouldnt work for many on here , but Im very flexible in my approach. However I will definately NOT be employing anybody.
I dont need that headache.
Mark, but aren't you 'subbing' the work out?
This is a road you can only travel down a little way before technically you have to employ properly.
I would be interested to see what you view as your way around this problem, I'd also be interested to know if you think the tax man will agree with you?
I got away with employing on a self employed basis for donkey's years, but I've not 'employed' for years now...it's a bloody big risk if something goes wrong...
Ian
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The only way round this is to rent them the round, i looked into this as i was in a position a few months back. That was what i was told by IR.
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The only way round this is to rent them the round, i looked into this as i was in a position a few months back. That was what i was told by IR.
And what conclusion did you come to with regard to renting out your work??
Mark
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I didn't. I didn't want to take on all the grief of employing someone.
It's a shame the goverment see it as a way of increasing the tax take because i would have
gone for it. The thought that i would still have to pay out because they feel a little unwell &
all the bennifits i would have to pay was not for me.
Macc
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.
Though you have missed out employers liability (i was quoted £1184 last year) and the other expenses of having an employee, unless you have a way around that which others like me don't know about.
I think I may have a way round this problem, it probably wouldnt work for many on here , but Im very flexible in my approach. However I will definately NOT be employing anybody.
I dont need that headache.
Mark
If a pesron cleans your work more than a certain % than they are classed as employed this guy is already employed by someone else so hes going to get hammered I think 40% tax on second income (does he know this ), I had to take on my guys has its problems and benifits ;)
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this guy is already employed by someone else so hes going to get hammered I think 40% tax on second income (does he know this ), I had to take on my guys has its problems and benifits ;)
I dont understand this Ian.
"If a pesron cleans your work more than a certain % than they are classed as employed "
Where did you find this information please.
Your second point regarding tax @ 40% what does this relate to? Tax payable on a second income?
If so I think you may be mistaken , unless of course his taxable income is over the current (2006-2007) £33,000 (after allowancwes). Otherwise he will pay basic rate tax of 22% (after allowances).
Mark
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If you have someone doing your work and it's more than 60% of their total work you have to employ them. Also if you have a self employed person working for you and they don't keep their own tax affairs in order you will be liable.
There is no way round the system if you want to sleep at night.
Chris
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If you have someone doing your work and it's more than 60% of their total work you have to employ them. Also if you have a self employed person working for you and they don't keep their own tax affairs in order you will be liable.
There is no way round the system if you want to sleep at night.
Chris
I think you may be mistaken here but I will find out because there will definately be a way arround this. Otherwise there would be no agents for insurance companies etc etc.
Thanks for the info though
Mark
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I think you might find it's an avarage of 16hrs per week you have to
put them on the cards & not self employed.
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Davo you gave us all some very good food for thought, and probably in some cases made us question what we were doing. Later posts of yours have not followed the premise that you initially laid down though.
My verdict is that you can only pursue this as a hobby, at the levels of commitmment and investment you describe it will never be a business. You have indentified an opportunity, but you are not in a position to access it.
When starting a new business you should look for opportunities for growth, look for an industry that is undergoing a period of change because this is when the greatest opportunities arise, changes in legislation that affect an industry such as health and safety can also be helpfull.If possible look for something with a high barrier to entry.
This last, high barrier to entry is the only thing it lacks in the text book sence. Low as it is this is what has stopped you. Like the bacon and egg breakfast, the pigs commited.
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Davo you gave us all some very good food for thought, and probably in some cases made us question what we were doing. Later posts of yours have not followed the premise that you initially laid down though.
My verdict is that you can only pursue this as a hobby, at the levels of commitmment and investment you describe it will never be a business. You have indentified an opportunity, but you are not in a position to access it.
When starting a new business you should look for opportunities for growth, look for an industry that is undergoing a period of change because this is when the greatest opportunities arise, changes in legislation that affect an industry such as health and safety can also be helpfull.If possible look for something with a high barrier to entry.
This last, high barrier to entry is the only it lacks in the text book sence. Low as it is this is what has stopped you. Like the bacon and egg breakfast, the pigs commited.
I beg to differ regarding your comment on my commitment level, my plan is evolving as a consequence of potential problems arising with my original business plan.
However I WILL NOT EMPLOY so I am looking into ways to overcome this problem. I do have an idea, however it will take more research.
As to my level of investment, if I wanted to buy a brand new van and 2 man van mount system I could, If I wanted to spend another £1500 on a van wrap no problem. But I believe initially this would be foolish, cos the van would lose a third of its value as soon as I drive it out of the dealership. And any value my round had if I wanted to "get out" would be eaten away in depreciation
My initial plan is to confirm my own belief that this is a viable business which can be operated profitably with a relatively low capital investment, without being an owner operator cleaner.
I will keep you posted but cant say much at this point until I have all the relevent facts available.
Mark
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If you have someone doing your work and it's more than 60% of their total work you have to employ them. Also if you have a self employed person working for you and they don't keep their own tax affairs in order you will be liable.
There is no way round the system if you want to sleep at night.
Chris
I think you may be mistaken here but I will find out because there will definately be a way arround this. Otherwise there would be no agents for insurance companies etc etc.
Thanks for the info though
Mark
Davo
Please call this number 0845 302 1437
It is the Inland Revenue helpline number.
Tell them what you want to do regarding having someone do the work for you.
They will tell you the law regarding this, they will also advise what is the best method for what you want.
It is up to you, but if you break the rules they will come down on you like a ton of bricks.
You have seen a business idea were you can make money from window cleaning, this is possible, if you go the right way, if you want to take short cuts, you might get away with it, but if you don't then all hell will break loose.
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Davo
Check out this info
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/Taxes/WorkingAndPayingTax/DG_4015975
Also if you can find me a van nearly new 30% cheaper i would be very interested lol.
Dave
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If you have someone doing your work and it's more than 60% of their total work you have to employ them. Also if you have a self employed person working for you and they don't keep their own tax affairs in order you will be liable.
There is no way round the system if you want to sleep at night.
Chris
I think you may be mistaken here but I will find out because there will definately be a way arround this. Otherwise there would be no agents for insurance companies etc etc.
Thanks for the info though
Mark
you will find agents that work for insurance companies work for many different ones and their incle does not come from one sourcem Davo you started well, but it seems from what I am reading you are already trying as hard as possible to cut corners, put it this way if a guy does all your work in the eyses of IR they are an employee a way round it is do it yourself or open an insurance agency, far to many people think they know about business when clearly they do not, cutting corners before starting is IMO a shakey foundation to grow on, and from another post you have written you think, by getting a few houses clean them say a year then sell for mega money I hate to tell you "You are mistaken" window cleaning domestic is loyalty based they will be loyal to the cleaner they know (you not being it) you are going to learn the hard way I think.
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If you have someone doing your work and it's more than 60% of their total work you have to employ them. Also if you have a self employed person working for you and they don't keep their own tax affairs in order you will be liable.
There is no way round the system if you want to sleep at night.
Chris
I think you may be mistaken here but I will find out because there will definately be a way arround this. Otherwise there would be no agents for insurance companies etc etc.
Thanks for the info though
Mark
you will find agents that work for insurance companies work for many different ones and their incle does not come from one sourcem Davo you started well, but it seems from what I am reading you are already trying as hard as possible to cut corners, put it this way if a guy does all your work in the eyses of IR they are an employee a way round it is do it yourself or open an insurance agency, far to many people think they know about business when clearly they do not, cutting corners before starting is IMO a shakey foundation to grow on, and from another post you have written you think, by getting a few houses clean them say a year then sell for mega money I hate to tell you "You are mistaken" window cleaning domestic is loyalty based they will be loyal to the cleaner they know (you not being it) you are going to learn the hard way I think.
Ian thats a big fence youve been sat on . How am I cutting corners? Im simply looking for a legal alternative to employing staff. You also tend to summise a great deal from the posts that I have written. From your reply above you must have read some ficticious post I have written , maybe it was this one?
" What I propose to do is get a few houses clean them for a year the sell them for mega money "
You are welcome to your opinion, but please base it on what has been written rather than what you think it says. Or indeed based on what the previous couple of posters have said.
Mark
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If you have someone doing your work and it's more than 60% of their total work you have to employ them. Also if you have a self employed person working for you and they don't keep their own tax affairs in order you will be liable.
There is no way round the system if you want to sleep at night.
Chris
I think you may be mistaken here but I will find out because there will definately be a way arround this. Otherwise there would be no agents for insurance companies etc etc.
Thanks for the info though
Mark
you will find agents that work for insurance companies work for many different ones and their incle does not come from one sourcem Davo you started well, but it seems from what I am reading you are already trying as hard as possible to cut corners, put it this way if a guy does all your work in the eyses of IR they are an employee a way round it is do it yourself or open an insurance agency, far to many people think they know about business when clearly they do not, cutting corners before starting is IMO a shakey foundation to grow on, and from another post you have written you think, by getting a few houses clean them say a year then sell for mega money I hate to tell you "You are mistaken" window cleaning domestic is loyalty based they will be loyal to the cleaner they know (you not being it) you are going to learn the hard way I think.
Ian thats a big fence youve been sat on . How am I cutting corners? Im simply looking for a legal alternative to employing staff. You also tend to summise a great deal from the posts that I have written. From your reply above you must have read some ficticious post I have written , maybe it was this one?
" What I propose to do is get a few houses clean them for a year the sell them for mega money "
You are welcome to your opinion, but please base it on what has been written rather than what you think it says. Or indeed based on what the previous couple of posters have said.
Mark
Hi Mark, I reply as do others with thier opinions it is just that am opinion, as for the large fence, I always sit in the middle that way I always have options ;) text is read in many different ways it depends on how it is wrote and how the reader perceives it.
My comment about selling for mega money come from this part of a post that you wrote "van would lose a third of its value as soon as I drive it out of the dealership. And any value my round had if I wanted to "get out" would be eaten away in depreciation"
buying a new van has many benifits, some just cant afford a new one, some dont want a new one etc etc you are right in a way it could be classed as foolish starting a business you know little about and spending out on a new van, on the flip side some would start as you mean to go on. from what you have written or should I say the way I am reading what you have written you are having doubts.
I wish you well in your start-up business as long as you treat it like one it will work, I have been self employed for over 10 years so I must be doing something right ;)
One last thing saying I can afford this that does not read well m8 ::)
RIGHT I'M GETTING BACK ON MY FENCE ;D
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I don't think you will find a legit way around the issue Mark.
At some point this guy will have to work for you and pack in his normal job, yes?
At the moment he is doing no more than a bit of part time work for you....not a problem...yet.
But he is also doing all of the work, you are not doing it yourself, and you are the guy supplying him with all the equipment transport and 100% of the work he is doing.
In the eyes of the tax man YOU ARE HIS EMPLOYER! Second job or not, and although you may continue just as you are doing and quite possibly never get caught, that I'm afraid is a fact.
I also believe you are wrong on the way in which a second income is taxed, but you'd have to check with the tax man himself as I'm sure it can get pretty complicated!!
And don't forget...if you get away with it for say...5 or 6 years, and then get caught out, the tax man will go back right to the beginning!!
Ian
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Davo
There are ways to cuts costs when you employ someone and they are legal, but firstly you need to charge your customers the right amount to cover all of your costs in running your business.
For a example
You need to have a minimum charge , which is realistic for you needs, this should be £5.00 for the fronts and £10.00 front and back, if the job is going to take longer than another house because of access issues or any other thing then you prices needs to go up to cover the extra time involved in the cleaning.
On all 1st cleans you need to charge double the price, this will cover you on the time issue and it also stops the one off clean customers.
When you employ anyone, make sure that you employ them on a part time basis of 16 hours and pay them £6.00 per hour.
With this way you are covered on what you pay out for holiday and sickness pay.
Next you need to also pay them commission for what they clean, this should be around 35% of the total price of the cleaning price.
You can work your figures out on the basis that the cleaner will clean 3 house per hour and he will work 7 hours a day, 4 days a week, this will give you a income of £840.
Your immediate costs are wages £6.00 per hours for 28 hours = £168.00 commission £840 @ 35% = £294.00 + £168.00 = £462.00
You will have to pay national insurance condibutions for him of 12.8% on what he earns over £70.00 (this is not the coreect figure but its close to it), so you will have to pay £462.00 - £70.00 x 12.8% = £50.17
So your gross profit so far is
Income £840.00
Wages £462.00
NI £50.17
Balance £327.83
Out of this figure you have to take out you other expenses, but you should have at least £200.00 before any tax you are liable for.
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I also live near Blackpool and work in the area, will I have seen you about . Is your van sign written.
I find it a bit hard to beleive the amount of work that you have picked up with the amount of window cleaners around the Blackpool area and the prices they charge.
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Brilliant post william x.
That's what I like about this kind of debate, you start off thinking you know everything (speaking for myself)and end up learning something.
Davo (I notice you've started calling yourself Mark). Even when you've biult the business, which as ww says is loyalty based, it's worth very little. How much would you pay for a 35K job?
Not very much, and then you have to buy the assets as well.
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I also live near Blackpool and work in the area, will I have seen you about . Is your van sign written.
I find it a bit hard to beleive the amount of work that you have picked up with the amount of window cleaners around the Blackpool area and the prices they charge.
Hello john, the work, apart from one job, isnt in Blackpool, its out of the area, too many cleaners, seaside town high winter unemployment etc. Oh and I imagine the rates are diabolical too ( dont know though cos Ive never considered the area as a prime area for decently priced work) blackpool that is dont know about cleveleys, poulton or fleetwood.
Ive had a very long day so Ill re read evrything tomorrow when im not too tired and tell you the track im looking down to LEGALLY avoid an employer employee situation.
Goodnight gents
Mark