[Village Gleam]

I can't really fault anything you've done or said. I would expect a painter and decorater to be good, or soon become good at quoting and dealing with people.

If you got the sack, were made redundant, your wife left you, or any of the life changing things that usually alter our choices you would definitely 100% succeed.

Even hating your present job and on £6 an hour you would have a better chance. As it is I don't think you stand any chance at all.

If I were in your shoes (as you've described your circumstances) I would put out, or get people to put out for me, leaflets, and advertise in a directory. I assume you know the obvious stuff like open a business account (use Abbey). Call divert costs £1.70 a month.(diverts calls to your mobile).

Don't think I'm knocking you because I'm not. We had a plumber on here once who was helping his window cleaning son, and talking about growth he said something to the effect that with his employees (in the plumbing business) he had turn to over twelve grand a week to achieve or beat the £1,500 to £2,000
pw he could earn with just a mate. He couldn't get his lads to work Saturdays because he paid them too well and they didn't need to, and as a consequence turned away a lot of profitable work.

Not sure how relevant that was, but to succeed you are going to have to expand rapidly.

[EasycleanWindows]

Wow great post where do i start this is going to take all night.

I have been cleaning windows water fed pole's since 2002/2003 .i started with a 700 ltr tucker pole dueal system 2 man set up.

All i needed then was the custemrs easy peasy millions of houses,commercial properties around here ill get the lot right ?

I have cleaned every window possible with wfp ive gone back over windows again and again to learn what can and cant be done with wfp..............

Ive done conservatories,pubs,schools,ive cleaned windows on factories for KRAFT going up 80feet with poles  ive cleaned houses with lead glass windows some having 200 panes, ive even cleaned luvre windows on a horse stable which had 400 of the little bliters all day in the rain standing in horse dung mmm nice.

So firstly “sub contracting” your van ,your equipment......wrong hes your emploee so you should be providing  the following

His employees liability insurance fron around £50-100 per month,all his running costs of his vehicle and tools.

His national insurance contributions and your contributions to his national insurance about £50 per week

His income tax on the earnings your saying he “turns over” roughly about £200 ish a week

So taking all of this into consideration and also the following

Most properties have closed gate access so you need to get your ladder off to undo the bolt time consuming.......then you need to set up and put away the equipment and then travel between jobs. You also need to take into account the weather...it rains for a week hard your not cleaning 6 houses in an hour and you have not earned anything for a whole week.....your then behind with your round .............and once it stops raining and you able to get back to work you are then behind because the clocks have gone back and all of a sudden the 6 houses an hour you were doing in june cannot now be done in december as youve run out of daylight by 4 o'clock..

Oh and the customers are not in for you to collect payment what do you do?
Collect another evening or leave an envelope...with a stamp or not?

Once your back on top you fall ill or the person who works for you does 6 houses an hour? Its not happening
Oh and your pump has broke down and you cant get a replacemnt till Monday..oops you need it for the weekend as youve got that conservatory to do oh itll get done next week in between all those other window cleaning jobs youve got planned.

Right how easy this window cleaning is huh............................................  ive given away jobs ....ive even turned down a £5,000 cleaning job let someone else have the hassle ..........

The biggest job i do at the moment is a block of flats 70 of them and i do another 30 blocks ,i do all the tall buildings in my area and ive never lost a customer to someone trying to undercut me why

I have a rapport with them all im courteous,happy,helpful,and i give them something no else can ................  peace of mind and service which they didn't have before me thats why they use me after all

In April i was out of work myself for 4 months with double pneumonia and pluerisy, and guess what i had all the insurance it the world but it still dosent cover most day to day running costs yeah your mortgage,food bills etc but it dosent stop customers leaving you and no not 1 of mine did they even had others knock the door and say they would do it “cheap” but they all stayed loyal after all this time.
 
To make quick easy money by cleaning and under cutting yeah we could all do that if that happens to me i go back and do it free.

To build a good business ,and keep customers year after year,clean windows when your fingers are frost bitten,to wait months and months for payment time and time again takes a long time to achieve .
Ive tried all the quick fast ways,,,employed people, dropped £5 houses and done £50 houses in the same time as the £5 ones and i still cant do 6 an hour all day every day ................. ive been on courses abseiled,used platforms the lot and i still cant do it

so if you can good luck and happy cleaning ill see you around in another 5 years because i know i will be

Steve

[Davo]

I can't really fault anything you've done or said. I would expect a painter and decorater to be good, or soon become good at quoting and dealing with people.

If you got the sack, were made redundant, your wife left you, or any of the life changing things that usually alter our choices you would definitely 100% succeed.

Even hating your present job and on £6 an hour you would have a better chance. As it is I don't think you stand any chance at all.

If I were in your shoes (as you've described your circumstances) I would put out, or get people to put out for me, leaflets, and advertise in a directory. I assume you know the obvious stuff like open a business account (use Abbey). Call divert costs £1.70 a month.(diverts calls to your mobile).

Don't think I'm knocking you because I'm not. We had a plumber on here once who was helping his window cleaning son, and talking about growth he said something to the effect that with his employees (in the plumbing business) he had turn to over twelve grand a week to achieve or beat the £1,500 to £2,000
pw he could earn with just a mate. He couldn't get his lads to work Saturdays because he paid them too well and they didn't need to, and as a consequence turned away a lot of profitable work.

Not sure how relevant that was, but to succeed you are going to have to expand rapidly.

VG Youve hit the nail right on the head, it is totally dependant on expansion especially on 6 week call cycles. But without going into  detail I have already addressed this problem, in my business plan it was an issue that came up in the very early initial stages. Its also one of the reasons I chose a non window cleaner who already has a job(income)  to do the work.

Mr Ian Giles you state in your post that 10 minutes is the average time for a competent up to speed wfper to clean an average semi, these are small terraced prop, all very close together. Also I hope over time to pick up more work on this particular zone ( theres a few gaps between some of the houses.)

But taking into consideration what has been said I think it will produce minimum £20 hour


Mark

[Davo]

Easyclean (Steve) thankyou very much for that post.


Mark

[mark dew]

But taking into consideration what has been said I think it will produce minimum £20 hour

yes, that is a feasible base figure. Then you have your expenses on top of that.
You will eventually have clumps of hours where you are doubling that but overall £20 p/h is approximately about right. Before expenses.

[williamx]

Mark

Are you are saying you are charging your customers £1 a week for window cleaning, if so then I'm not surprised you picked up so much work.

The other thing to remember is when a window cleaner has left an area, its normally for a good reason, like low paid work or arkward customers who like to say "not this time, next time would be better dear

Yes many of the terraced properties  I quoted  em £6 a clean 3 windows front 4 back.
done every 6 weeks. A seasoned wfp er how long? 5 mins a front.... tops . then backs ( although they will be cleaned backs first.

Davo

When I first started wfp cleaning 4 years ago, I went out and knocked doors, the streets I picked on were  the old style terrace back to back houses with alleyway in between them to access the back.

I too charge £6.00 a house front and back, I too thought that if I get enough in one street then my hourly rate would increase.

I was very sucessful with the door knocking, around about 20 house per street, on one street I had over 60 houses, yip pee I thought "this time next year I will be a millionair"

Then the bubble burst when I started cleaning them, firstly cleanimng the fronts is easy peasy, providing they have double glazing and good plastics, alas some did not, they had old rotten wooden frames with the paint flaking off.

You try cleaning one of these, it can take upto 30 minutes just to get the fronts, streak and spot free.

Then I had to do the backs, now the alleyways are normally locked so you have to find a keyholder to open it for you, then you find that the householders like to store every piece of junk there, so if you use a trolley, you end up trying to carry it over rubbish, bikes, prams and the odd bedroom suite.

After that you find that in their small backyards they insist on having millions of pot plants, and I can assure you, your hose will lassoo every single one.

You will find that it take at least 3 cleans before these windows are perfect and these cleans will take a lot longer than you have planned for.

If you move the cleaning date to 8 weeks instead of 6 then they will be dirtier when you turn up and therfore longer to clean.

If you want to earn good money from these type of propertys I would recomend that you charge £3.00 for the fronts and £7.00 extra if they want the backs done, but check the access first.

I would change your cleaning times to a 4 week rota because at 4 weeks they start to show the dirt.

[windowwashers]

Mark

Are you are saying you are charging your customers £1 a week for window cleaning, if so then I'm not surprised you picked up so much work.

The other thing to remember is when a window cleaner has left an area, its normally for a good reason, like low paid work or arkward customers who like to say "not this time, next time would be better dear

Yes many of the terraced properties  I quoted  em £6 a clean 3 windows front 4 back.
done every 6 weeks. A seasoned wfp er how long? 5 mins a front.... tops . then backs ( although they will be cleaned backs first.

Davo

When I first started wfp cleaning 4 years ago, I went out and knocked doors, the streets I picked on were  the old style terrace back to back houses with alleyway in between them to access the back.

I too charge £6.00 a house front and back, I too thought that if I get enough in one street then my hourly rate would increase.

I was very sucessful with the door knocking, around about 20 house per street, on one street I had over 60 houses, yip pee I thought "this time next year I will be a millionair"

Then the bubble burst when I started cleaning them, firstly cleanimng the fronts is easy peasy, providing they have double glazing and good plastics, alas some did not, they had old rotten wooden frames with the paint flaking off.

You try cleaning one of these, it can take upto 30 minutes just to get the fronts, streak and spot free.

Then I had to do the backs, now the alleyways are normally locked so you have to find a keyholder to open it for you, then you find that the householders like to store every piece of junk there, so if you use a trolley, you end up trying to carry it over rubbish, bikes, prams and the odd bedroom suite.

After that you find that in their small backyards they insist on having millions of pot plants, and I can assure you, your hose will lassoo every single one.

You will find that it take at least 3 cleans before these windows are perfect and these cleans will take a lot longer than you have planned for.

If you move the cleaning date to 8 weeks instead of 6 then they will be dirtier when you turn up and therfore longer to clean.

If you want to earn good money from these type of propertys I would recomend that you charge £3.00 for the fronts and £7.00 extra if they want the backs done, but check the access first.

I would change your cleaning times to a 4 week rota because at 4 weeks they start to show the dirt.

WILLMX IS BANG ON WITH THAT POST 

[colley614]

Yeah but he did miss a bit!

I did this last year and was taking about £200 a week last December but I was trad. After the first clean nobody is home so you can't do the backs unless you climb the wall. The yards are full of dog muck that you have to weave around and then as you are finished your last house a druggies is knocking on you first house offering to do it for £3.00 or even £2.00

If I was you davo I would stay right away from them because they are murder and stick to your semi detached houses.

[windowwashers]

Yeah but he did miss a bit!

I did this last year and was taking about £200 a week last December but I was trad. After the first clean nobody is home so you can't do the backs unless you climb the wall. The yards are full of dog muck that you have to weave around and then as you are finished your last house a druggies is knocking on you first house offering to do it for £3.00 or even £2.00

If I was you davo I would stay right away from them because they are murder and stick to your semi detached houses.

Colley, you cant label everyone with a terrace house like that, I own one myself and tenants have a window cleaner, I understand what you mean in reagrds to drug users but many of them pay good money as they earn more than us, you have to judge people hard as it may sound but it true. other companies do and we are no different, and for the people that say we are only window cleaners (learn to run your business as one)
rant over!

[colley614]

I'm not knocking the people who live in terraced houses at all I used to own one and really enjoyed the sense of community that swelled in the street. The point I'm trying to make is that I had two separate lots of terraced houses and both were targeted by rouge traders constantly. I was charging £4 a house and couldn't get prices any higher because the people in the houses wouldn't pay any more than that. I was paying for all my insurances and stuff and I had two guys going around whilst my back was turned offering to clean my customers windows front and back for £2.00. One guy used to wear a bum bag with a can of tennants super sticking out the front and a funny fAg hanging out of his mouth and the other who targeted my other work was a painter and decorator who got banned from driving for drink driving so decided he would knick my work.

I had spent hours building the round up and soon was losing my work at around %25 of my custom per clean. Until I got sick of it and moved on to pastures new. 

[windowwashers]

I'm not knocking the people who live in terraced houses at all I used to own one and really enjoyed the sense of community that swelled in the street. The point I'm trying to make is that I had two separate lots of terraced houses and both were targeted by rouge traders constantly. I was charging £4 a house and couldn't get prices any higher because the people in the houses wouldn't pay any more than that. I was paying for all my insurances and stuff and I had two guys going around whilst my back was turned offering to clean my customers windows front and back for £2.00. One guy used to wear a bum bag with a can of tennants super sticking out the front and a funny f*g hanging out of his mouth and the other who targeted my other work was a painter and decorator who got banned from driving for drink driving so decided he would knick my work.

I had spent hours building the round up and soon was losing my work at around %25 of my custom per clean. Until I got sick of it and moved on to pastures new. 

that say alot about the customer base to be hinest, I get people all the time under cutting my prices I dont ever come down. I am a professional window cleaner and so are my staff I pay them a good wage and in turn they have to do a good job (if they dont the cancel comes out of their wages) harsh but true.

seems you got the wrong customer base from what you say, people that go for a cheaper window cleaner are not the customers you want (you will already know this)
from what you said about the idiot with dd and £2 a house let him do it, move on there are plenty more houses and idiots like that die out every quick. I could go right into this as it annoys the hell out of me that siome idiots try and make a fast buck undercharge and leave soon after (get us registered as professional window cleaners  and it would stop, Gordon if you read this sort it out 

[NWH]

I`m aslo not knocking these types of houses,but as far as WC goes and making money it won`t happen cleaning these types of houses.You might get good money doing a row of terrace houses but by seeking quaility work you`ll probobly find 1 rural detatched house would equate to a whole row of terrace houses in money terms.

[windowwashers]

I`m aslo not knocking these types of houses,but as far as WC goes and making money it won`t happen cleaning these types of houses.You might get good money doing a row of terrace houses but by seeking quaility work you`ll probobly find 1 rural detatched house would equate to a whole row of terrace houses in money terms.

that would I guess depend on what yuo charge , houses in this sticks cost more in travel IMO

[NWH]

2 good houses in the sticks can be worth more than 20 in the town.

[Davo]

In response to the last few posts ( I cant cut and paste em all ) That is some of the best information and advice I have read on this forum ( and Ive read a hell of a lot)


williamx its the exact same prop as you describe. Next canvassing run is fronts only £3/ 4 weekly, I'll stick with this work to generate income, for cleaner to develop his skill.

And upon reflection its gonna take 9-12 months longer than  I originally estimated to bring in enough decent semi affluent prop to earn enough to become a viable full time round (the way im working it)

 

Many thanks
Mark

[windowwashers]

2 good houses in the sticks can be worth more than 20 in the town.

that would depend on the size, I do 100's in towns and I cant complain about the prices and dont have to drive to the sticks  

[windowwashers]

In response to the last few posts ( I cant cut and paste em all ) That is some of the best information and advice I have read on this forum ( and Ive read a hell of a lot)


williamx its the exact same prop as you describe. Next canvassing run is fronts only £3/ 4 weekly, I'll stick with this work to generate income, for cleaner to develop his skill.

And upon reflection its gonna take 9-12 months longer than  I originally estimated to bring in enough decent semi affluent prop to earn enough to become a viable full time round (the way im working it)

 

Many thanks
Mark

Mark only tip I can give as you seem like a guy that knows what he wants/ only not the trade he wants in in,. Put up you prices even if you do this buy £1 a house you will thank me for it 

[williamx]

In response to the last few posts ( I cant cut and paste em all ) That is some of the best information and advice I have read on this forum ( and Ive read a hell of a lot)


williamx its the exact same prop as you describe. Next canvassing run is fronts only £3/ 4 weekly, I'll stick with this work to generate income, for cleaner to develop his skill.

And upon reflection its gonna take 9-12 months longer than  I originally estimated to bring in enough decent semi affluent prop to earn enough to become a viable full time round (the way im working it)

 

Many thanks
Mark

Mark

I forgot one very important thing, on the first cleans, charge them double their monthly rate at least.

The reasons for this are that
1,  The first time you clean them it will take you at least double the time, and most times longer.

2,  When you knock doors, a lot of them do want their windows cleaned, but they only want it cleaned when they want, so the next time you turn up they don't want you, they will then ask you again in about 6 months when they are minging again.

[williamx]

Mark

You said you will be using wfp, but what type of system will you use, this is important, because some systems are better for some jobs than others and they all have their limitations.

For instance you have a road with 100 houses down each side, you manage to get 20 of them, but these 20 are spead all over the road.

With these roads, I have found that parking is at a premium, so the correct wfp system is vital.

For instance you have a van mounted system, which means you need to park within 120 metres of the job and this might not be possible, also you have hoses all over the place, which will snag on anything, its also a major trip hazard.

You use a trolley which holds 50 litres of water, the refils are left in your vechicle at the end of the street, 50 litres of water on a 1st clean, will clean maybe 5 houses, fronts only, or 2 front and backs, so out of these 20 houses you will have to go back to your vechicle 4 times if its fronts only or 10 times if its front and backs.

If you use a backpack, these only hold 18 litres, so you will be going back to your vechicle more often.

All of this is time comsuming and tiring.

Because all of this is time comsurming its going to effect the profit margin in your prices.

[supernova77]

Mark (Davo),

It will be interesting to see if you are still around in 6 - 9 months time.

No offence intended.

Andy