Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: W C R Ltd on August 02, 2007, 11:40:25 am
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Hello all,
Can anyone assist with the temporary clean of £3000 in Hayes, middlesex.
If you have any questions please call 08700 424244 or email.
Thank you
WCRounds
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feel free to send me more info !
lloyd.birchley@hotmail.co.uk
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I will be about from monday if you need help
Let me know
Countywinclean@gmail.com
Regards J
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Thank you for your help.
It has now been resolved.
WCR
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This established round is now for sale.
Average customer £13.50, all WFP, 20 - 25 customers can be cleaned in one day due to close locality of all customers, Average monthly round £3750, one month the clean is £3500 and the other month £3900.
Last cleaned in 10 days.
Serious interest only please call 07920 483551.
Thank you
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Hi Nathan,
Good to see you using the forum for your business, am looking forward to getting my round on Friday as promised by you.
Regards,
Trevor
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Good to hear from you Trevor, still waiting to hear from you with reference meeting up and arranging a contract.
Please feel free to email me, with reference to the above and arranging the finalizing of the campaign.
Many thanks
Nathan
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Hmmm, interesting reply Nathan?
You called me to say you couldn't deliver the campaign as previously agreed and that you were unsure about taking on commercial contracts based on your time requirement. You then said you would get back to me with your new proposal?
Then, you called me back that same afternoon and said that you would infact take on the campaign as originally agreed and that you would call me the following day to discuss this.
Thats what happened! not as you are now saying.
Please note Nathan, I meticulously write down all conversations for exactly this reason! You have never called me back nor have I heard from you since?
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Not the best of places to discuss this matter, i am sure you will agree, and am sure all on-lookers to your comments will favour yourself, which you know hence you arrived on this forum topic.
I will give you a call to resolve this matter for our ongoing relationship.
Regards
Nathan
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Nathan,
I have posted on here as this was your most recent posting and as I have NOT heard from you I thought I would drop you a line?
This is EXACTLY the place to discuss this as like I said at our meeting, so many members have not had the results they have been promised from companies offering similar services and hence they need to be aware what happens GOOD or BAD!
Your proposal, like I said was very professional and well thought out, you openly welcomed my requirement and left me with no doubt that you were able to deliver the campaign. I took time out of my schedule to meet with you and you spoke a lot of sense and certainly came across as someone who I genuinely believed would be a breath of fresh air in this environment. All I am simply stating is the process since then?
I am not in this to slate anyone, all I am doing is being honest and letting other CIU members understand what is happening, the same way that when I originally posted about our meeting, likewise, I said I was very pleased with your whole approach and would update people with the results? Had we continued and you had delivered I would have sung your praises??
I am away from the office for the next few days but you are more than welcome to call my mobile.
Regards,
Trevor
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Thank you.
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Very dissapointed but hardly suprised, yet again have been promised a lot and nothing delivered?
Why, why, why do people say they will do this and do that and yet in reality not do any of it??? Surely the penny must drop that if you use a vehicle to promote your business and at the same time not fulfill obligations and promises the same vehicle will come to a stop?
I am sick and tired of wasting my time and effort with people who cannot deliver the goods!
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I kinda thought it would end like that Trevor, there seemed to much sales waffle for my liking!
what was the problem in the end if you don't mind me asking?
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I was intrested in the coventry round they have advertise.
Don't think i will bother
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Very dissapointed but hardly suprised, yet again have been promised a lot and nothing delivered?
Why, why, why do people say they will do this and do that and yet in reality not do any of it??? Surely the penny must drop that if you use a vehicle to promote your business and at the same time not fulfill obligations and promises the same vehicle will come to a stop?
I am sick and tired of wasting my time and effort with people who cannot deliver the goods!
Was it commercial contracts that was going to be canvassed for you??
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hi trevor i was just this week going to go ahead with a small campaign for commercial work do you think wcr can deliver or would you stay clear, if you do not want to post on forum then please feel free to email me
Thanks
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I kinda thought it would end like that Trevor, there seemed to much sales waffle for my liking!
what was the problem in the end if you don't mind me asking?
Hi Nat,
As posted above, we agreed everything, all was in place timescale etc... but then I heard nothing back?
I took time out of my busy schedule, met with them, spent 2 hours discussing the way forward and what they had to offer our industry and now it all seems it was just a complete waste of my time.
Funny, I had a similar meeting with another Canvassing Company, maybe its me????????
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hi trevor i was just this week going to go ahead with a small campaign for commercial work do you think wcr can deliver or would you stay clear, if you do not want to post on forum then please feel free to email me
Thanks
You have mail :)
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Very dissapointed but hardly suprised, yet again have been promised a lot and nothing delivered?
Why, why, why do people say they will do this and do that and yet in reality not do any of it??? Surely the penny must drop that if you use a vehicle to promote your business and at the same time not fulfill obligations and promises the same vehicle will come to a stop?
I am sick and tired of wasting my time and effort with people who cannot deliver the goods!
Was it commercial contracts that was going to be canvassed for you??
£750 p/m commercial and £250 p/m houses over a value of £25 per clean. The problem was the commercial side of things funnily enough??
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thanks for the reply Trevor, What has been the problem? are they not returning your calls? no contact with yourself in regards to any progress?
i think its good to know cause as you have already said these people use these sites to promote thier business and if we all knew the full ins and outs it prevents others getting our fingers burnt or just having our timewasted. i would love to use a company that respects my business and requests but as of yet I'm still to find one and it seems this new kiddie on the block is just like the rest...not worth it!
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With reference to Trevor Knight, there was no binding contract in place only verbal arrangements.
We have been very busy growing your businesses and our own, at this present moment in time we are not able to start any more campaigns with anyone due to our 2 month booked diary.
We have commitments with our existing customers and have to try our best to service there needs.
Trevor again I am sorry, i have left a voice mail over a week ago for you, as you have made this public then I shall let you and everyone else know where we stand with working with you...
1. We cannot commit any time to you due to our busy schedule, we are behind with our current customers who are in contract with our company.
2. After repeated aggression in verbal phone conversations and on cleanitup , we have decided that we do not wish to represent your company now or in the future.
Regards
Nathan Ferry
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With reference to Trevor Knight, there was no binding contract in place only verbal arrangements.
We have been very busy growing your businesses and our own, at this present moment in time we are not able to start any more campaigns with anyone due to our 2 month booked diary.
We have commitments with our existing customers and have to try our best to service there needs.
Trevor again I am sorry, i have left a voice mail over a week ago for you, as you have made this public then I shall let you and everyone else know where we stand with working with you...
1. We cannot commit any time to you due to our busy schedule, we are behind with our current customers who are in contract with our company.
2. After repeated aggression in verbal phone conversations and on cleanitup , we have decided that we do not wish to represent your company now or in the future.
Regards
Nathan Ferry
Nathan,
Firstly please understand having experienced your "Lack" of communication, rediculous statements and failed promises you never were going to represent my company!
OK, so lets show everyone on this forum exactly what you HAVE and HAVEN'T done!
1) No binding contract? Well firstly we agreed at our meeting you would take on my request and you were able to work exactly within the time requirement, your email below (In case you had forgotten what your wrote) states this:
Hi Trevor,
Please find enclosed the contract for the work to commence from 1st August for you to start cleaning from the 1st September.
We will hand over all new clients on the 27th august, which if you wish can be scheduled to be cleaned for specific days for you.
The work will consist of as discussed on 20th June at cafe nero, Andover, �1000 of new clients broken down into �750 of commercial in your geographic area charged at �2250 (x3) and �250 of new domestic clients in your chosen areas to be charged at �500, the a total of �2750.
I hope this all makes sense for you Trevor.
Any problems please call.
Regards��
2) I offered you the deposit and you said you didn't want it until nearer the time FACT!
3) You contacted me 1 week before the campaign start date explaining you had struggled on other commercial work for other companies and now didn't feel confident you could deliver the campaign to me in the time you originally agreed FACT
4) You called me back that day and said personally (No, I will do the contract and I will get the work for you as promised, I will call you later to discuss it with you in more detail) FACT
5) Never received any further communcation from you regarding my campaign until I posted against your name on this forum which you constantly use promoting your canvassing services!
6) I left a posting on here asking you to ring my MOBILE which you have still not done.
7) Yes you left a message on our office number despite my request for you to call my mobile?
What have we done since I spoke to you _ well apart from help you by introducing you to colleagues regarding your franchising idea as well as help you with supplier information and details as well as listening to your sidekick try and tell me how to run my business and also insult my intelligence and mock the fact that we don't earn £100 per hour per operative, oh and lets not forget to mention the incident regarding my son who I was looking for work for, your same sidekick tried to sell me a round despite he COULDN'T drive and then tried to palm me off with other B*****it!
I will let the members on CIU make thier own minds up who and what they wish to believe?
Repeated aggression ???? really, all I have done is quote FACTS Nathan, as for telephone conversations, please, I have never raised my voice to you once during all 3 times we have spoken?
Trevor
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Just in case you have forgotten this one as well Nathan here is your very last communication with me by email on Tuesday 27th July!!
Hi there Trevor,
Hope you had good break.
Just to keep you updated, will be giving you a call end of this week to discuss the campaign in detail further.
Cheers
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Nathan Ferry
Managing Director
Window Cleaning Rounds Ltd
office: 08700 424244
mobile: 07920 483551
w: http://w.com
e: nathan@w.com
Co. Registration No. 06222208
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Trevor,
This is not you splashed out on every gumtree all over the uk :- http://middlesbrough.gumtree.com/middlesbrough/15/12864315.html
Must be over 20 adverts
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Trevor,
This is not you splashed out on every gumtree all over the uk :- http://middlesbrough.gumtree.com/middlesbrough/15/12864315.html
Must be over 20 adverts
Nothing to do with me mate?
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Someone seems to be trying to build an empire but with an email address like that I'd stay away ;D ;D
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Has anyone anything good to say about these companys that build a round for you .
Most seem to make promises that they cant deliver.
Its good that Trevor has posted what he has been through , if companys want to boast about what they can do for you , then people should be able to find out just what they have delivered.
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Try the girls at roundbuilders. Never had a problem with them, no BS and 100% honest. But they dont canvass big commercial jobs.
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Hi Guys
Not to stick the knife in or anything but I met these guys quite a while ago and asked them to canvass me work and I asked if we could come to the agreement of me giving them +60% instead of the usual +100% and that I would give these guys regular canvassing work also.
They said 'yes' to the agreement and when I asked them to start canvassing they said they could not work at this price. 'why agree to these terms in the first place' and waste my time, I sat there in the meeting and just received a load of 'sales jargon' in the beginning.
I just thought 'unbelievable' typical messers'
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I feel sad that people feel the need to slate other companies on here, I put myself up for the slating because I learn from it, but private meetings should be kept private. would the people that are doing it like it if the customers the customers they upset came on here and started doing the same thing to them?? I understand some had a problem with them and maybe a few others, a simple i wouldnt use ... would be better dont you think, this forum will get a bad name if this keeps happening and would be a very big shame if word spread around as mud does stick and many should know better, I have seen it happen quite a few times maybe it should change.
if people ask you to give negative comments that fair play.
right got that off my chest ::)
And please dont have a pop at me as i dont want to get into tit for tat
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This site is for sharing information , both good and bad
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Has anyone anything good to say about these companys that build a round for you .
Most seem to make promises that they cant deliver.
Its good that Trevor has posted what he has been through , if companys want to boast about what they can do for you , then people should be able to find out just what they have delivered.
if you boast then nto live up to it true you should expect negative responce, but a limit on what is said maybe..
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had wcr come and do some canvassing for me a few month ago had a meeting looked very good smart etc.BUT i wanted 1000 of each dom&com guess what i got £40 in com and £100 in dom and we had to pay for there hotel 4 guys.sorry forget mention only 3 of them turned up.also there said there had a really good lead worth ££££ for 1 job.on the fone to them all the time (when there answered like) and he said(nat)its looking good but i dont want to pester the bloke but ill ring you to let you know if you got the job or not(it was due to be cleaned in august)but still no fone call
sorry guys but you where a complete waste of time and money
does any of the roundbuilders do a good job??
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had wcr come and do some canvassing for me a few month ago had a meeting looked very good smart etc.BUT i wanted 1000 of each dom&com guess what i got £40 in com and £100 in dom and we had to pay for there hotel 4 guys.sorry forget mention only 3 of them turned up.also there said there had a really good lead worth ££££ for 1 job.on the fone to them all the time (when there answered like) and he said(nat)its looking good but i dont want to pester the bloke but ill ring you to let you know if you got the job or not(it was due to be cleaned in august)but still no fone call
sorry guys but you where a complete waste of time and money
does any of the roundbuilders do a good job??
maybe I should start doing this, I can see a big market for it..
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I'm sorry Window washers but i believe that all the information that is shared in these meeting and dealings SHOULD be shared, if there quick enough to blab on here saying how great they are and thier services then we should here all the details good and bad, we are all potential customers and we should be given the right to make our own minds up by previous track records. If anyone has anything good to say about WCR then nows the time to share it, i would be very peed off if my time and energy was wasted on empty promises...sorry but to run a business like that just isn't good enough!!!!!!!!!
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I think WCR have just deleted thier account ain't they?
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could have something to do with the slating from a moderator, IMO Moderators should not be allowed to do this as they are seen as top people of the site to the new people on the forum
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do you rekon? i wouldn't of thought they would kick them off, they haven't done anything in violation of the site! it looks to me like they may have the hump ???
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do you rekon? i wouldn't of thought they would kick them off, they haven't done anything in violation of the site! it looks to me like they may have the hump ???
Hump I am guessing so i cant blame them though, is a little bad though that a moderator of a forum lays into a member does not look good from where i am sitting and have been on forums for over donkeys years never seen it before yet it happens all the time not the first time i have seen it from the mod doing the same to other members.. ::)
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do you rekon? i wouldn't of thought they would kick them off, they haven't done anything in violation of the site! it looks to me like they may have the hump ???
Hump I am guessing so i cant blame them though, is a little bad though that a moderator of a forum lays into a member does not look good from where i am sitting and have been on forums for over donkeys years never seen it before yet it happens all the time not the first time i have seen it from the mod doing the same to other members.. ::)
I really don't see the problem here! wether it was a mod or any other forum member, its good to know the ins and outs of these reletionships, If a mod or other member was on here singing thier praises i would probably want a peice of the action but from an early stage i made up my own mind about the company in question from the few short posts i had in talking with them, seemed like a lot of sales crap and no direct action, i would like to be wrong but i just have a hunch that i'm not, so from were i'm sitting i really don't think anything bad has gone on we could still either hear a decent argument from the company in question or hear from some other forum members that have had some good experiences to tip the scales...A LOT OF THESE COMPANYS BANG ON ABOUT YOU THE CUSTOMER BUT WHEN THE S**T HITS THE FAN THEY SIMPLY DON'T WANT TO KNOW!
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I cant be bothered to do the quotes thing on this one but let's look a bit more closely at some of the info you have posted Trevor.
2) I offered you the deposit and you said you didn't want it until nearer the time FACT!
Well good on them. A lot would have taken the money and ran. Which perhaps has a bearing on the answer to your next statement.
3) You contacted me 1 week before the campaign start date explaining you had struggled on other commercial work for other companies and now didn't feel confident you could deliver the campaign to me in the time you originally agreed FACT
At least they were being honest with you. Come on we all know that commercial work at good prices is very hard to come by.
4) You called me back that day and said personally (No, I will do the contract and I will get the work for you as promised, I will call you later to discuss it with you in more detail) FACT
Perhaps they felt pushed to honour their original proposal in the heat of the moment a kneejerk reaction happened because they realised that they could gain some very negative feedback from you unless they kept you happy.
5) Never received any further communcation from you regarding my campaign until I posted against your name on this forum which you constantly use promoting your canvassing services!
You feel aggrieved and probably angry and now is the time to get them. Why didnt you post about this before? You got p*ssed off mate. End off. Just put it down to experience and move on
6) I left a posting on here asking you to ring my MOBILE which you have still not done.
In the light of the tone of the first posting you made in this thread regarding this matter I would want time to think about my reaction to it.
7) Yes you left a message on our office number despite my request for you to call my mobile?
Well at least they did try to contact you. Does it really matter whether it's on you office or mobile number?
What have we done since I spoke to you _ well apart from help you by introducing you to colleagues regarding your franchising idea as well as help you with supplier information and details as well as listening to your sidekick try and tell me how to run my business and also insult my intelligence and mock the fact that we don't earn £100 per hour per operative, oh and lets not forget to mention the incident regarding my son who I was looking for work for, your same sidekick tried to sell me a round despite he COULDN'T drive and then tried to palm me off with other B*****it!
That is nothing but an angry reaction. Now you are getting personal.
I will let the members on CIU make thier own minds up who and what they wish to believe?
I would make my own mind up and not let this type of thing influence me one bit.You may not realise that you have come across as aggresive. I would realise that there are always 2 sides to every story and at least call them to invite them to compete for my business
Repeated aggression ???? really, all I have done is quote FACTS Nathan, as for telephone conversations, please, I have never raised my voice to you once during all 3 times we have spoken?
The whole nature of this thing has been aggresive since the outset here on the forum. It hasnt worked out the way you expected and you are angry about it. You may not think that you have been aggresive but mere tone of voice can convey that you are. You dont have to raise your voice to sound angry and aggresive.
All the above said we all get dissapointments and feel let down and angry in business at some time. Running a good window cleaning business can be stressful and from what I can see you are doing a very good job sustaining and growing your business Trevor. I hope that you continue with your success and the effort you put into the APWC for all our benefit.
Ohh for the record I have nothing at all to do with WCR. I have never had any contact with them in any way.
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they could gain some very negative feedback from you unless they kept you happy.[/b]
5) Never received any further communcation from you regarding my campaign until I posted against your name on this forum which you constantly use promoting your canvassing services!
You feel aggrieved and probably angry and now is the time to get them. Why didnt you post about this before? You got p*ssed off mate. End off. Just put it down to experience and move on
6) I left a posting on here asking you to ring my MOBILE which you have still not done.
In the light of the tone of the first posting you made in this thread regarding this matter I would want time to think about my reaction to it.
7) Yes you left a message on our office number despite my request for you to call my mobile?
Well at least they did try to contact you. Does it really matter whether it's on you office or mobile number?
What have we done since I spoke to you _ well apart from help you by introducing you to colleagues regarding your franchising idea as well as help you with supplier information and details as well as listening to your sidekick try and tell me how to run my business and also insult my intelligence and mock the fact that we don't earn £100 per hour per operative, oh and lets not forget to mention the incident regarding my son who I was looking for work for, your same sidekick tried to sell me a round despite he COULDN'T drive and then tried to palm me off with other B*****it!
That is nothing but an angry reaction. Now you are getting personal.
I will let the members on CIU make thier own minds up who and what they wish to believe?
I would make my own mind up and not let this type of thing influence me one bit.You may not realise that you have come across as aggresive. I would realise that there are always 2 sides to every story and at least call them to invite them to compete for my business
Repeated aggression ???? really, all I have done is quote FACTS Nathan, as for telephone conversations, please, I have never raised my voice to you once during all 3 times we have spoken?
The whole nature of this thing has been aggresive since the outset here on the forum. It hasnt worked out the way you expected and you are angry about it. You may not think that you have been aggresive but mere tone of voice can convey that you are. You dont have to raise your voice to sound angry and aggresive.
All the above said we all get dissapointments and feel let down and angry in business at some time. Running a good window cleaning business can be stressful and from what I can see you are doing a very good job sustaining and growing your business Trevor. I hope that you continue with your success and the effort you put into the APWC for all our benefit.
Ohh for the record I have nothing at all to do with WCR. I have never had any contact with them in any way.
OK so neither of us were there but to me it comes across that WCR's intentions were more than he could deliver. I suppose we can all do that sometimes. Although WCR acknowleged this, he did later phone back to say that he could deliver after all. That seems to bew where the mistake was made. Perhaps he should he stuck with the original line of having doubts about whether it could be achieved. After retracting the original doubts and failing to deliver, I think it is reasonable to feel p'd off. Yes I do agree that there are ways of showing anger other than raising of the voice and I also agree that the other person can pick up those vibes even if we are unaware that we are giving them off. I feel a degree of irritation would be reasonable in such a situation. Also, by phoning the office number rather than Trevor's mobile, is it possible that WCR was aware that he hadn't delivered and was struggling to communicate directly with Trevor?
I think the situation could have been avoided if WCR had dropped the sales stuff and had been more transparent about his ability to deliver what Trevor wanted - and done that directly on a 1-2-1 basis. I'm not trying to apportion blame. If either of these guys have made mistakes, they pale into insignifance when compared to some that I have made in my own life.
On a more general note now. Sales tactics are all very well and many of the core principles are sound and travel well between different industries. However, although I can't put my finger on it, I suspect that the window cleaning industry is a different animal in some respects.
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If either of these guys have made mistakes, they pale into insignifance when compared to some that I have made in my own life.
Very wise words Shiner. This type of thing is just part of business. Nothing has been stolen.. no-one has been cheated out of anything. Certainly not deliberately so the wisest thing to do is just put it down to experience and move on.
I am sure that misunderstandings/mistakes/good intentions that couldnt be fulfilled in the end/bad communication and above all HUMAN NATURE played a part in this situation.
I am not blaming Trevor for feeling aggrieved. Nor do I blame WCR for anything.
My real problem with all this is that on public forums to air dirty washing doesn't do anyone any good in the end. Nothing is really achieved other than perhaps a good vent.
One thing I will say is I do agree with what WCR said at the outset. That Trevor would be believed. Had I been in their shoes I would not have even responded because they were on a hiding to nothing from the start with this one.
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My real problem with all this is that on public forums to air dirty washing doesn't do anyone any good in the end. Nothing is really achieved other than perhaps a good vent.
Well something is achieved and that is giving people an insight into the companys that would/could/should/not improve our business. yes we can all put it down to experience but then where does that get us?
We are in business, some want to acheive more, some are happy to plod along, if you agree something and it is not delivered then i would want to know why? it pee's me off the amount of time i've listened to sales waffle for it all to never materialise! if you agree it then deliver it! if you have any doubts of your capabilities then let people know from the start don't lead people up the garden path and then moan when it blows up in your face
a quote from WCR
"our business is to grow your business"
just only when we can actually deliver it! ;)
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My real problem with all this is that on public forums to air dirty washing doesn't do anyone any good in the end. Nothing is really achieved other than perhaps a good vent.
Well something is achieved and that is giving people an insight into the companys that would/could/should/not improve our business. yes we can all put it down to experience but then where does that get us?
We are in business, some want to acheive more, some are happy to plod along, if you agree something and it is not delivered then i would want to know why? it pee's me off the amount of time i've listened to sales waffle for it all to never materialise! if you agree it then deliver it! if you have any doubts of your capabilities then let people know from the start don't lead people up the garden path and then moan when it blows up in your face
a quote from WCR
"our business is to grow your business"
just only when we can actually deliver it! ;)
why have to be doing something right or they would not be in business sour grapes it what this is sounding like :-X the post nat not aimed at you
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no sour grapes, why would i have sour grapes i've never dealt with them, i'm simply commenting on what i've been reading!
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One thing I will say is I do agree with what WCR said at the outset. That Trevor would be believed. Had I been in their shoes I would not have even responded because they were on a hiding to nothing from the start with this one.
Trevor has shown himself to consistently be a very helpful poster and has been around here for a while. The only tangible reward for much of what he has given to the forum has been the good feeling that comes from helping another.
WCR is much newer around here and has possibly helped some people move their businesses up a level. In the process he has presumably made some money out of it and that would appear to be the main motivation in doing so (nothing wrong with that).
So I have to agree with you that, even without being a moderator, Trevor's standing on here has been higher than WCR's. Therefore, it is natural that people would be more inclined to believe what Trevor has said.
Trevor seems to have a more upfroint posting style whereas WCR appears to be more the salesman. Unfortunately, the salesmen that hit the headlines are usually the less ethical ones and this gives a negative tainted picture of the sales industry generally. Most window cleaners I've met are more "cut the carp (sic) and say it as it is" types so would probably go for Trevor's style rather than WCR's.
You say "hiding to nothing". More like a walkover I think.
It can be difficult forming reliable impressions in a text only medium and perhaps WCR has a lot to offer. It may just be that he needs to alter his style to the "cut the carp" that most W/cers seem to thrive on. Let's face it, many of us are used to carp from some of our (ex?)custies and don't tolerate it too well.
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It can be difficult forming reliable impressions in a text only medium and perhaps WCR has a lot to offer. It may just be that he needs to alter his style to the "cut the carp" that most W/cers seem to thrive on. Let's face it, many of us are used to carp from some of our (ex?)custies and don't tolerate it too well.
I don't think it just comes down to window cleaners but i understand where your coming from, i just think in general, i much prefer being upfront and truthful with people, and not hiding behind a salesman front, its all bull carp, my father has been a successful salesman for years and years and i think it is probably his ability to talk to people on their individual level and to deliver what he is capable of, i've dealt with all sorts of idiots from listening to divy estate agents to settee salesman telling me this is a once in a lifetime opportunity!
be upfront, speak your mind, don't pretent your something your not
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It can be difficult forming reliable impressions in a text only medium and perhaps WCR has a lot to offer. It may just be that he needs to alter his style to the "cut the carp" that most W/cers seem to thrive on. Let's face it, many of us are used to carp from some of our (ex?)custies and don't tolerate it too well.
I don't think it just comes down to window cleaners but i understand where your coming from, i just think in general, i much prefer being upfront and truthful with people, and not hiding behind a salesman front, its all bull carp,
be upfront, speak your mind, don't pretent your something your not
That is very very true.
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This has turned into a well thought out and intelligent debate with input from obviously reasonable people.
My thoughts re commercial work is that gaining it in quantity and quality does require sales ability.
I will pose a question here. How many of us have in the past taken on work that in all honesty we were not totally prepared for and had for the want of better wording to do a bit of BSing when we realised that we were in a little too deep?
I confess that I have as part of my learning curve in running my own business. Mostly it has involved deadlines that I found that I couldnt meet in the end so the good old stock of standard excuses and last minute panics have come into play.
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This has turned into a well thought out and intelligent debate with input from obviously reasonable people.
My thoughts re commercial work is that gaining it in quantity and quality does require sales ability.
I will pose a question here. How many of us have in the past taken on work that in all honesty we were not totally prepared for and had for the want of better wording to do a bit of BSing when we realised that we were in a little too deep?
I confess that I have as part of my learning curve in running my own business. Mostly it has involved deadlines that I found that I couldnt meet in the end so the good old stock of standard excuses and last minute panics have come into play.
I think I've only done that in my early days as a W/C when I wanted to give the impression that I had more experience than I really had. I didn't tell any direct lies but I was certainly trying to paint a picture which was different to reality.
I did a bit of that when I first started WFP as well. This time I had to quote things that people had written on this forum and give the impression that it was my personal experience. Of course I could only do that with new customers as the converted ones were well aware I had been usig ladders and squeegees for many years.
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I don't lie to get me contracts, i have exaggerated in the earlier days, so i agree with you Shiner. I'm now confident of what I am, what i can achieve so no need to lie about my operations. you will probably find at some point you will come unstuck! ain't worth the hassle!!
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Guy's Firstly can I thank you for all your comments, it made good reading and certainly points raised are worth considering.
Despite what people may or may not think I am not slating WCR, I am sure they have managed to complete work for others and I am sure it's been worthwhile.
Why did I post on here, well, so everyone is in the picture, this is why!
I read time after time on here that companies offering this service have let the end user down (i.e. YOU!), maybe by not delivering work as promised, maybe by underpricing, selling a 1 off clean instead of a monthly call, failing to replace or refund cancellations, we all know the reasons.
Now I met with Nathan, he was very pleasant and polite and without doubt sold his company and all the effort they were going through to improve services such as this and about taking his company forward.
I stressed, based on previous history, this industry would welcome with open arms a company who did exactly what they say without any hidden agenda's or motives and without all the dissapointment that we have suffered in the past. Both Nathan and I agreed what would be a fantastic opportunity to build a future for his company if they delivered everything as promised.
I pointed out to Nathan that using this Forum would undoubtedly gain him work and that good news travels fast and I was positive he would have tremendous success. I said to him that when he had completed my campaign I would also be the first one to sing his praises and highlight what a great job he had done and that I would recommend him on this forum to others.
I did also stress that BAD news travels faster and that too many times other forum members had been let down etc.... and that he was putting his neck on the line so to speak. In fact Nathan agreed this was a great opportunity as he knew a good company would gain tremendous credibility for delivering results as promised.
So, people on here have questioned that in my position as a mod perhaps I should have not taken this angle and simply state the facts of what has happened. Well I disagree, I believe even more so I should have the members interest at heart and just make people aware what they may or may not be letting themselves in for based on my own experience.
I am lucky in the respect that I can take 2/3 hours out of my day to attend a meeting without losing money, but others on here perhaps can't? I am dissapointed that despite all that was discussed we still found ourselves wanting for the results?
My posting is anything but sour grapes, hey, if anything my posting is just stating facts and informing others what may lie ahead. I would like to believe Nathan and WCR Ltd are a very good company, I wanted to use their services? I wanted to see our forum have a canvassing company that could genuinely help us all out and give us what we needed?
Maybe as posted they felt obliged to carry out my campaign, but read my post, they had ample months to talk to me and let me know if things were changing?
I have not deleted anyone's account either! I wouldn't do that! I would be more than willing to speak with Nathan to discuss a way forward and resolve this matter. At the end of the day all I want is people to deliver what they say they can and thats all?
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At the end of the day all I want is people to deliver what they say they can and thats all?
that really is the bottom line!.
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I didn't tell any direct lies but I was certainly trying to paint a picture which was different to reality.
LOL... That's one of the best contradictions I have ever heard :)
Andy
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I didn't tell any direct lies but I was certainly trying to paint a picture which was different to reality.
LOL... That's one of the best contradictions I have ever heard :)
Andy
LOL.
I do have a way with words don't I?
I did it by using leading statements and by omitting things. Maybe it's as naughty as direct lying really but by the time they would have realised my inexperience, I would have got the hang of window cleaning anyway :)
What was I supposed to say? "Well I've never done this before but can I practice on your windows please?" ;D
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I came to an agreement with Nat on the 30 July, he said the next time we talk, it will him calling with the commercial customers, he said he could get me.
Well 6 weeks later still no telephone call :'(, must be no more customers out there anymore. :-X
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I didn't tell any direct lies but I was certainly trying to paint a picture which was different to reality.
LOL... That's one of the best contradictions I have ever heard :)
Andy
LOL.
I do have a way with words don't I?
I did it by using leading statements and by omitting things. Maybe it's as naughty as direct lying really but by the time they would have realised my inexperience, I would have got the hang of window cleaning anyway :)
What was I supposed to say? "Well I've never done this before but can I practice on your windows please?" ;D
shiner you make me laugh m8, good on ya.
Trevor responded better than I thought he would and fair play to him aswell, my opinion has changed, it is funny what people write on here does stick sometimes, wcr are a good bunch of lads, maybe they had problems maybe they didnt want to deal with trevor this is unknown to me and anyone else apart from them 2..
While I am here trevor did you get the email I sent with the images for you website? i efited them for you as the ones that i saw was not to good, just thought i would suck up to the moderator you see lol ;)
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Nathan took the time to contact me today and apologised for not being in contact, which I have to say says a lot about him and his company, I have known others to simply hide and hope it all goes away so thank you to Nathan for having the professionalism to make contact.
I hope everyone can learn something from this posting and that is communication between two parties is vital to maintain a good working relationship.
I wish Nathan well and hope he continues providing his services and that the same mistake isn't made again with future customers regarding contact.
Trevor
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I have been reading this thread with great interest, I am not going to make any comments good or bad as this is between Trevor and Nathan, but the reason I’ve been looking is that I have ask Nathan to canvass £150 worth of domestic in an area that I have a couple of jobs in.
The main reason I am taking on more work is after going wfp (over 2 years now) I find I have more time on my hands to expand and I’ve also taken on my 18yr old son fulltime, over the course of the last 6 months we have dropped all those CR**P customers (you know the ones I mean the (NOT TODAY THANKS GANG).
It has now come to the point where we have a nice established round earning a good wage but as we all know there’s room for improvement and find that with the speed we can work at we could easily fit in 1 extra days work each week. Having said this, although I can canvass and on the odd occasion do so I feel once I’ve finished my days work I want to go home and put my feet up not go door knocking.
As we are fortunate enough to be in a financial situation to be able to employ a canvasser this is the road we have decided to go up. As earlier mentioned we are trying out Nathans company for a first run of £150, if this proves to be successful then we will no doubt be looking for more work from him. If on the other hand it does not pan out as planed we will have to spend a few hours doing it ourselves.
My overall plan is to create such a big round that in a couple of years time we will split in 2 with myself and my son doing half each, each having his own van and round.
I personally hope that Nathan can produce what I have asked for (due to start last week in Sept) and in due course will keep you all informed as to how it went (good or bad)
I’m sorry that things never worked out between Trevor and Nathan but I also feel that Trevor has the right to voice his opinion on this forum and Nathan also has the right to defend himself. Surely this is what the forum is about, looking out for each others interest, giving advice and telling each other when you are not happy about things, after all if a company advertises on the forum then they should expect feedback from it’s members (good or bad) a bit like e-bay really.
Just my thoughts.
Jay
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I have been reading this thread with great interest, I am not going to make any comments good or bad as this is between Trevor and Nathan, but the reason I’ve been looking is that I have ask Nathan to canvass £150 worth of domestic in an area that I have a couple of jobs in.
The main reason I am taking on more work is after going wfp (over 2 years now) I find I have more time on my hands to expand and I’ve also taken on my 18yr old son fulltime, over the course of the last 6 months we have dropped all those CR**P customers (you know the ones I mean the (NOT TODAY THANKS GANG).
It has now come to the point where we have a nice established round earning a good wage but as we all know there’s room for improvement and find that with the speed we can work at we could easily fit in 1 extra days work each week. Having said this, although I can canvass and on the odd occasion do so I feel once I’ve finished my days work I want to go home and put my feet up not go door knocking.
As we are fortunate enough to be in a financial situation to be able to employ a canvasser this is the road we have decided to go up. As earlier mentioned we are trying out Nathans company for a first run of £150, if this proves to be successful then we will no doubt be looking for more work from him. If on the other hand it does not pan out as planed we will have to spend a few hours doing it ourselves.
My overall plan is to create such a big round that in a couple of years time we will split in 2 with myself and my son doing half each, each having his own van and round.
I personally hope that Nathan can produce what I have asked for (due to start last week in Sept) and in due course will keep you all informed as to how it went (good or bad)
I’m sorry that things never worked out between Trevor and Nathan but I also feel that Trevor has the right to voice his opinion on this forum and Nathan also has the right to defend himself. Surely this is what the forum is about, looking out for each others interest, giving advice and telling each other when you are not happy about things, after all if a company advertises on the forum then they should expect feedback from it’s members (good or bad) a bit like e-bay really.
Just my thoughts.
Jay
Good on you Jay,
for that reply, let us know the out come. I only have a few more years then I can have a father and son business that I always wanted, if you cant trust you son who can you trust and all that, i had my best m8 of 15 years working for me and wanted to build my business with with both of us he done very big dirty on me stealing customers behind my back etc, he even rented a place from me, so now i trust no one 100% sons have to be different as they are your blood. at the mo I have to pick and choose for the next 3/4 years who i trust a little.
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spot on Ian, i had a guy working for me but things did not work out, but with my son he collects for me is honest and trustworthy (like me)
only one draw back though, @ 18 they get a bit lazy sometimes and occasionaly i have to crack the whip and remind him who the boss is, but all said and done i could'nt do without him and love him to bits. ;D