Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: KarlJones on June 27, 2007, 12:51:34 am
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Now I personally think I have a pretty good attitude to customer complaints. The way I see it if something is wrong I will put it right. Thats the deal and it is explained to them from the outset.
So today I spent 3 hrs cleaning down outside of guttering, fascia, sofits and windows inc a conservatory. The house was filthy and I half expected a call back as something is bound to go wrong with job likes this.
So, come 9pm a phone call, proper irate complaining that I had not done any of it right apart from the windows and he is not going to pay for anything but the windows.
So, within 20 mins I am there, it looked fine but the problems fell like this.
His garage and the garage next door belonged to him, doh!, I am not sure how I was supposed to realise this as there was a fence at the back separating the garages from each other ?!?
Fair enough, 10 mins work max cleaning down the gutters from a milk crate.
I had missed a bit, I knew this would happen, hands up it was bad quality control on my part, I had missed a 3" section that I had not even realised was there as it sort of had a 3" section of facsia at the back of the porch. 1 min job.
On to the next bit, the filthy sofits, some of the water had run back away from the house and settled in a ridge, it was noticable from inside and it needed cleaning. Dunno how long that would take.
OK 1 mistake, 1 who would have thought it and 1 needs improving. But in general I had worked my socks off for 3 hrs and done a pretty god job of taking loads of muck off the place.
So I offer to pop back in the morning and re do these bits. But no, they are not interested, they just want to pay for the windows, which I am told she "could have done them myself with Mr Muscle" (maybe this is where I am going wrong)
I just thought, I don't want to waste any more of my time with these people, just take the window money and go, count your blessings that your not a plasterer etc. So thats what I did, I was very nice, accepted the blame (as it was mostly my fault though I would dispute the 2nd garage)
Now I wonder if I should have laid down some rights? Or was I right to take the cash and get away from these type of folk that want to pick faults to get out of paying.
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Only speaking from my view point, I would not be best pleased, if I had work my socks off and then told we are not paying you
You had a agreement with them on a price for the job, you done the job but they was not happy and you offer to put it right, she is just trying it on ::) if it was me I would take them to the small claims court (very easy thing to do)
Andy
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Thats how I felt to be honest PoleMan, it wouldn't be so bad but I had gotten a phone call a few hours before from another customer telling me what a brilliant job I had done of her windows. It fills you with confidence then you get hit the the stomach by the next customer.
I kinda figured they were trying it on, but such a large part of me felt "Im going to be here forever if I do make them have me back". I guess some customers and window cleaners see eye to eye, others see it as a way to get themselves out of a mess and then look for ways not to pay. Im just glad to be rid of them on one hand, but on the other it grates me that they stole my time.
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I suppose if you don't mind the hassle their is the small claims court. Mind you, when I've been turned over (thankfully rarely) I just move on and make sure any other window cleaners I know are aware that they don't pay.
I got the nod from a W/C recently about a potential new customer so I won't be doing that job after all.
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We recently had one like this with a gutter and con roof clean, she also had a freestanding garage that I wasn't aware of, she also wanted the downpipes cleaned, which I hadn't quoted for, she also complained that we had dropped dead leaves all over her clean patio, there were about 5 leaves out of about a million!
It was a £120 job that took about a month before she paid up after much hassle. We'll never go back there again and I'm sure she'll be recounting to all her friends at work the problems she had!!
Quantify and clarify exactly what is expected, what you are capable of delivering and what the final price will be. If necessary get in on a estimate form. It cab be a hassle and 99% of the time you will never need it, but for that 1%........it's worth it!
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Quantify and clarify exactly what is expected, what you are capable of delivering and what the final price will be.
Spot on. You have to summarise exactly what you're going to do for the price you've quoted.
Remember, when some customers ask you to clean their gutters, they may assume this means the eaves and soffit area too.
At the end of each quoting conversation recount to the customer what you're going to do, exactly, and repeat the price.
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How much were you done over for?
Were they previously a good customer?
Legally they must allow you the chance to put right your mistakes. Only you can decide if you want to push it. You could go back, get a snagging list from them, get agreement that you will be paid in full for it when completed.
An expensive lesson, we've all had 'em - but worthwhile for learning from for next time IMO.
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There is absolutely no way I would leave this and walk away.
I would agree a snagging list and return to complete the job. Otherwise, lets face it, your customer has had all the work done, which I am sure is of a good standard for FREE and its COST you!
If the customer refused I would stand my ground and demand payment for the work I had done and if he still refused I would call the police and explain his tactics and that i had offered to rectify these few small points.
You would be surprised how many people who shout their mouths off suddenly get a reality check when you stand infront of them and call the police.
I know the police can't make him pay but the fact they turn up is sometimes enough to get an amicable settlement.
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A few options spring to mind.
Phone 'em up and try to re-negotiate.
If no luck there, it might be worthwhile informing them that they are under contract, a verbal contract will be supported in the eyes of the law. If your worried they may slag you off to their mates/neighbours/colleagues etc they'd be equally worried you might do the same to them if you imply something along the lines of 'no-one else around here has complained about my quality of work, I wonder what they might think, think I'll ask fo rtheir opinions'
Sue them....... satisying Id imagine
Give them their dirt back (I dont clean anyones dirt off for nothing, if they wont pay I feel justified in giving it them back) ......satisfying too.
If youve returned at any stage and done what he wasnt happy with they havent a single leg to stand on; and if they've denied you the opportunity to sort the problem out they'd be laughed out of court.
Matt
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Yeah re dirt their windows maybe each one with an egg then see if she can remove them with mr muscle im joking of course but ive considered it a few times
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Karl, if you don't mind me saying so, you sound like you were "defeated" before you started the job. Ok so you have said youself that maybe some bits weren't as good as others, but come on, it must look better than what it did before! You spent 3 hours on it. You weren't sitting around doing nothing were you, so you are entilted to payment. Personally I would now write to them explainig that having now had time to consider the situation, you feel that their actions and attitiude is unfair, seeing that you had offered to rectify the situation and that you will be considering further action to retrieve monies owed. Enclose a full invoice, detailing the part payment already received and a timescale say 7 days for payment to be made. Personally I would put it through their letterbox yourself marked delivered by hand, so that you know 100% it has been received. Wait your timescale if nothing receieved either go to small claims or the police. Come on do something about it we are all behind you on this one. These people are the cowboys not us and they need to start to realise we cannot be treated like this........ >:( rant over, but people like this really P*** me off! Oops Helen swore!
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Oops Helen swore!
Naughty girl ::) ::)
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Not often something gets to me, but COWBOY customers every time ;D ;D ;D
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I agree with Helen and many others here.
The customers are obviously total cretins.
You ought to do something.
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I agree - Small Claims Court every time
Can all be done online now for £30.00
Richard
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I say i want you to walk me round the whole job and tell me what you want me to clean,i make a note of whats said and then read it back to them.It might be a good idea to get them to sign it even if it`s a scrap piece of paper.
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The significant question was whether the customer was using a couple of small gripes as a ploy. I would say that if I suspected a degree of intent on his part I would take him to court.
The reason I say this is because many years ago I worked with a bloke called Roy who did this sort of thing all the time and was proud of it. He was a total A***H***.
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Yes thats exactly what happened, they just used a couple of things to try to get out of paying to be honest. Helen, well your exactly right, the very fact these minor points stood out is because of my hard work for three hours.
Well I am going to put it down to a lesson learned. It will never happen again thats for sure. Its the first time I have had this happen and I guess my inexperience in dealing with scum like this shone through.
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Karl, if you don't mind me saying so, you sound like you were "defeated" before you started the job. Ok so you have said youself that maybe some bits weren't as good as others, but come on, it must look better than what it did before! You spent 3 hours on it. You weren't sitting around doing nothing were you, so you are entilted to payment. Personally I would now write to them explainig that having now had time to consider the situation, you feel that their actions and attitiude is unfair, seeing that you had offered to rectify the situation and that you will be considering further action to retrieve monies owed. Enclose a full invoice, detailing the part payment already received and a timescale say 7 days for payment to be made. Personally I would put it through their letterbox yourself marked delivered by hand, so that you know 100% it has been received. Wait your timescale if nothing receieved either go to small claims or the police. Come on do something about it we are all behind you on this one. These people are the cowboys not us and they need to start to realise we cannot be treated like this........ >:( rant over, but people like this really P*** me off! Oops Helen swore!
If you go down this route, do it by registered letter or some means where there is poroof that they have received it. Not only will you have proof of receipt but it will look more official so that they are more likely to believe legal action could follow.
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Sorry to hear of your plight with this character. I've been down this road too with customers, though only in regard to relatively small amounts of money. What really annoys me is when they make all that fuss and then won't let you correct it. You know then they're only after one thing.
However, and I stand to be corrected on this, if you want to pursue a matter like this in a small claims court don't accept any payment from them in any way otherwise you will be seen as having accepted their offer and closed the contract. This won't help your claim and may even prevent you from being successful.
Mark
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However, and I stand to be corrected on this, if you want to pursue a matter like this in a small claims court don't accept any payment from them in any way otherwise you will be seen as having accepted their offer and closed the contract. This won't help your claim and may even prevent you from being successful.
Mark
Correct! Make sure you have recitifed ALL their complaints, get a signed worksheet to say they are satisfied and then if no payment proceed to court action. If they won't sign your worksheet make sure you detail all your communication and times you spoke etc... This way when you do go to court you will appear far more organised and professional and a judge will take you far more seriously when you state times and dates etc... than the customer who has no record whatsoever!
Judgment in favour of the ...................................Plaintiff!!!!
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This may sound a bit daft, but I take photo's of all my gutter cleaning Jobs, you know the sort Before and after ones, this is for my own benefit, but reading this topic, I think I will only delete photo's from my camera now, when the cutomer has paid.
They may help in a court to show the type of work you actually did.
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good idea, we should all think of that!
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I can't understand why you went to the customer's house after 9.00pm.
In my opinion that was a mistake!
You should have made arrangements to visit them at a suitable mutual time next day and discussed the issue then. The customer would have probably calmed down by then and you would have had time to analyse how you were going to approach the situation.
For me 9.00pm is my time, not theirs.
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This may sound a bit daft, but I take photo's of all my gutter cleaning Jobs, you know the sort Before and after ones,
I don't think taking before and after photos sounds daft at all. It's an excellent idea. I haven't done that many gutter/soffit/fascia jobs but I think I'll be adopting that idea in the future. Just in case.
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I can't understand why you went to the customer's house after 9.00pm.
In my opinion that was a mistake!
You should have made arrangements to visit them at a suitable mutual time next day and discussed the issue then. The customer would have probably calmed down by then and you would have had time to analyse how you were going to approach the situation.
For me 9.00pm is my time, not theirs.
Excellent advice.
The reason was because it was my only night off from looking after my son, so I thought I would get it done and it was still light.
But your totally correct, hindsight tells me that you should not rush round.
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About photo's before and after (of gutters by Jeff)
I've been blamed for all sorts of things so photo's might be a good routine to get into.
I've been looking at drive washing and i've been told the custys blame you for it not being level afterwards, so again photos might help.
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Take a sprirt level with your camera for before and after ;D
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No Helen, you pronounce it whacker.
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When people ask me what I like most about window cleaning, somewhere near the top of my list is "totally stress free."
Over my (many) years, I've had surprisingly few situations like this, and each time I've taken the "line of least resistance" i.e. walked away.
Lie is too short to waste chunks of it persuing revenge against the people who are, probably, professional complainers. You may eventually get the boost of seeing them having to toe the line, but the cost to you in stress, worry, blood pressure etc isn't worth it. (Unless we're talking 100's of pounds here)
I had one who asked me to clean his soffits, fascias, guttering, frames and windows. I did what he asked, and made a very good job of it ::). He had to go out, so he gave me a cheque for £40 (the agreed price)
Later that day my wife rang me to say he'd been on the phone saying he'd never seen such bad workmanship, the job was dreadful and he wanted me back there immediately.
After I'd finished for the day I went back to se what the problem was. Now his story was that he'd asked me to wash down all his white paintwork and his double garage doors.
Totally untrue. He knew it, and so did I.
I didn't waste more time on him - I tore his cheque up and stuffed it in his top pocket.
I said: "We both know what we agreed, so we both know you're just out to cheat me. Let me save you any more lies, here's your cheque back, I haven't the time to waste on scum like you, I've got hundreds of good, satisfied customers to keep happy."
He didn't know what to say, and I didn't wait for him to get his breath back.
I still do the house next door, and if he's about when I arrive to do it he runs into his house and shuts the door.
We've just had another one: A new job canvassed by Rounddevelopers and passed to our franchisee. He did the job but the customer wasn't in so left a "windows cleaned" ticket. Still not in when he went to collect so left a "sorry to miss you" ticket.
Second time round - job done again, still not in - "windows cleaned" ticket left with request for two payments. Went to collect, they denied all knowledge, even though they'd had proper printed quotation. Refused to pay. Pointed out we knew the wife's name and mobile number, so how come if they'd never heard of us?
Still denied any knowledge, so I advised our man to forget it, and told him you will always meet the odd scumbag but it's not worth getting ulcers over it.
For every sh*t there's a thousand good ones :)
Cheers,
Ian
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When people ask me what I like most about window cleaning, somewhere near the top of my list is "totally stress free."
Over my (many) years, I've had surprisingly few situations like this, and each time I've taken the "line of least resistance" i.e. walked away.
Lie is too short to waste chunks of it persuing revenge against the people who are, probably, professional complainers. You may eventually get the boost of seeing them having to toe the line, but the cost to you in stress, worry, blood pressure etc isn't worth it. (Unless we're talking 100's of pounds here)
I had one who asked me to clean his soffits, fascias, guttering, frames and windows. I did what he asked, and made a very good job of it ::). He had to go out, so he gave me a cheque for £40 (the agreed price)
Later that day my wife rang me to say he'd been on the phone saying he'd never seen such bad workmanship, the job was dreadful and he wanted me back there immediately.
After I'd finished for the day I went back to se what the problem was. Now his story was that he'd asked me to wash down all his white paintwork and his double garage doors.
Totally untrue. He knew it, and so did I.
I didn't waste more time on him - I tore his cheque up and stuffed it in his top pocket.
I said: "We both know what we agreed, so we both know you're just out to cheat me. Let me save you any more lies, here's your cheque back, I haven't the time to waste on scum like you, I've got hundreds of good, satisfied customers to keep happy."
He didn't know what to say, and I didn't wait for him to get his breath back.
I still do the house next door, and if he's about when I arrive to do it he runs into his house and shuts the door.
We've just had another one: A new job canvassed by Rounddevelopers and passed to our franchisee. He did the job but the customer wasn't in so left a "windows cleaned" ticket. Still not in when he went to collect so left a "sorry to miss you" ticket.
Second time round - job done again, still not in - "windows cleaned" ticket left with request for two payments. Went to collect, they denied all knowledge, even though they'd had proper printed quotation. Refused to pay. Pointed out we knew the wife's name and mobile number, so how come if they'd never heard of us?
Still denied any knowledge, so I advised our man to forget it, and told him you will always meet the odd scumbag but it's not worth getting ulcers over it.
For every sh*t there's a thousand good ones :)
Cheers,
Ian
Very good post Ian.
I've sometimes got stressed about such situations but unless it's for a very large amount, I walk away too.
I've seen stress do some awful things to people and I'm not immune either. It's not worth giving the scumbags that much power. I can resent them all I want to but they just muddle through their apologies for lives oblivious to my feelings. If my resentment had some proportionate negative effect on them then maybe it would be worth experiencing - but it doesn't. OK, so eggs on their windows and paint stripper on their cars are reasonable fantasies and making a jest about such things can help to ease the annoyance. However, I'm not into lowering myself to their scumbag level.
I DO make sure that every window cleaner I know is warned about the address though. There is some satisfaction in making it harder for them to turn someone else over.
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See I thought of felt how Ian says he feels about the customer. Just get out of there as by and by the window cleaning game for me means I have a lot less stress. It is sort of like "these time wasters have wasted enough of my time". I can deal with picky customers (am i busy or not) but downright timewasters I just want to pull away from.
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The beauty of this business is that you are not likely to get knocked for anything really significant. I have a friend who is a plumber / heating engineer and he has been done over for thousands ( and more than once ). He's no mug either.
Another friend of mine did carpet cleaning back in the days when it was like having a licence to print money.
One day he gets a call to do a whole flat, carpets and upholstery in Finchley. When he gets there a lady lets him in, very nice and helpful. When he finished about six hours later he gave here the bill. She looked shocked, "I'm not paying, I am the new tenant. The landlord booked you, he phoned to say you were coming today"
She didn't know the landlords address but she gave him the name and address of the letting agency.
At the letting agency they knew nothing about it but the look that passed between the two staff members when he told them what had happened spoke volumes.
This obviously wasn't the first time the landlord had pulled a stroke like this.
The landlord was abroad they said and they would try to contact him. My friend never did get paid, repeated calls to the letting agents were just stonewalled.
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We've just had another one: A new job canvassed by Rounddevelopers and passed to our franchisee. He did the job but the customer wasn't in so left a "windows cleaned" ticket. Still not in when he went to collect so left a "sorry to miss you" ticket.
Second time round - job done again, still not in - "windows cleaned" ticket left with request for two payments. Went to collect, they denied all knowledge, even though they'd had proper printed quotation. Refused to pay. Pointed out we knew the wife's name and mobile number, so how come if they'd never heard of us?
Still denied any knowledge, so I advised our man to forget it, and told him you will always meet the odd scumbag but it's not worth getting ulcers over it.
For every sh*t there's a thousand good ones :)
Cheers,
Ian
Had a result on this one ;D
A couple of days ago the husband phoned our man: "I owe you an apology, I'm very, very sorry. My wife booked the job but she was afraid to tell me, so she hid the notes you left and hoped she would catch you when I wasn't here." ::) ::) ::)
He's going to post a cheque (he says) with a note saying whether they want us to continue or not.
We wait with baited breath ;D
Cheers,
Ian
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And when their payment arrives I would help them with their decision - your dumped!