Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: C Senor on August 04, 2006, 06:11:15 pm
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Seems that everywhere i look people are nagging each other about whats good about either WFP or TRAD.
Lets all have an official arguament, sorry - a discussion about the differences between WFP and Trad Cleaning.
Just one short PRO or CON per Post, about either method, you don't have to stick to your own method - If you're a Trad, then you can point out a CON in the WFP - or vice versa..
I'm trying to find out about WFP so i thought this would be a nice idea to get everything in one place, hope you all join in, i'm sure you will. ;D
I'll start...
TRAD PRO : Very, very low overheads.
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WFP PRO - Much safer than ladders!!
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TRAD pro's
low overheads
finished job each time
TRAD cons
slow(ish)
dangerous (ladders)
not as clean as wfp
WFP pros
very fast
frames/glass cleaned every time
safety
less tiring than trad
WFP cons
higher overheads
too many companies making too much money out of simple systems but charging £0000's for them
occasional spots on some properties
Overall I use trad about 5% of the time but for the jobs I use it on it would be better than wfp but the rest suit wfp far better
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WFP ; Pro: Increased speed= increased turnover.
Con: On-going expense
Trad: Pro: Low outgoings
Con: Safety issues
Sarah
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WFP, Pros: Safer generally,
Cleans frames,
Easier to rip people off.
Cons: Can't use on a lot of jobs.
Access problems.
Danger to public.
Inconsistant results.
Trad, Pros: Still fast (in the right hands)
Thorough job every time.
Less access problems.
Cons: Dangerous if incompetent on ladders.
Some windows can't be reached.
Can be hard work.
Rog. (balanced and fair I think)
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thats about the size of it
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Traditional pro's
just do bungalows
problem solved ;)
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Trad Pro's: Easily check finshed results because you're face to face with window
No need to explain new technology to customers
When you've finshed your last job for the day that's you finished for the day. (apart from washing scrims and microfibres every other night)
No excess water wastage causing environmental problems
Trad Con's: I'm too bloody slow squeaky. (Time=money).
Ladders slid down the bonnet of my car :-\
Have had one too many OH S**T MOMENTS. Nearly falling from ladder
Ladders can cause damage to customers property. (Lawn, Tiled bays, having to trample over flower beds). Ok so that's me not the ladder
Wfp Pro's: Much quicker resulting in higher turnover
Safer
Better for commercial work, high rise flats and 3 storey town houses
Wfp Con's: Constant maintenance required
Running costs. (Though revenue probably outways this).
Not having a clue what i'm talking about ;D ;D ;D :o
Enough said from me, apart from the fact that i'm trad and i clean the frames every time too.
Sunshine
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WFP - More money per hour.
Trad - Less money per hour.
Nel.
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WFP - More money per hour.
Trad - Less money per hour.
Nel.
WFP - Narrow minded, deluded.
Trad - Wise, intelligent discussions.
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Wfp - more things to think about...Poles, RO systems, trolleys etc etc.
Trad - Need to be a trained monkey with permafrost in the brain.
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Wfp - £10,000.00 more earnings in 7 months then what I got as a Trad wc.
Trad - I would have been £10,000.00 poorer if I had stayed Trad. Maybe a lot poorer if I had fallen off my ladder.
Who is the wiser wfp or Trad? Ummm
Nel.
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There is a third option.
You can use ladders AND/OR a WFP depending on the task in hand.
There's not many windows I can't get too, if I want to get them.
But I do work safely now since getting a WFP.
Some jobs are faster, far faster with a WFP. Some aren't! It just depends on the geographical circumstances of the property concerned.
As other members here have coined the phrase, 'it's just another tool in the box', and it's an extremely good tool that will increase your turnover.
At the end of the day, a clean window is a clean window!
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Yes I do use a ladder and wfp together.
Its when I do Consevatory roofs. I much prefer being above the roof as I can apply a lot more pressure with the brush when I'm cleaning plus I can see If I have removed all the stubborn marks.
Nel.
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Wfp - £10,000.00 more earnings in 7 months then what I got as a Trad wc.
Trad - I would have been £10,000.00 poorer if I had stayed Trad. Maybe a lot poorer if I had fallen off my ladder.
Who is the wiser wfp or Trad? Ummm
Nel.
Don't you mean who's bloody slow with a squeegee? ;D
You wouldn't have done hardly any more money on my round in that amount of time.
Not a chance. You must have a round which isn't suited to trad.
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WFP CON : Future Water Shortages / Bans
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wfp not suit me coz of access,cost to much to set up.
if wfp is quicker,why is terry turbo champion,coz hes faster than wfp ;D
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The fact is I am a very quick Trad wc. I have very fast hand speed and I use an 18" squeegee with very little detailing to do. I am extremely fast up and down a ladder, in fact I have never met anyone who was faster then me in going up and down a ladder.
I am 48 yrs old but I am as fit as a fiddle. I still have a resting heart rate of 44 heart beats per second and when running I can still run for 20 mins at my max heart rate.
Over a day no w cleaner who as worked with me as been able to keep up if I go for it.
I think even you squeaks would struggle to keep up with me if I am going for it.
So how comes I have earned k10 more? Well with wfp I am 30% faster on most stuff on my round. Some 100% faster, leads. This as given me more time so I have made £1500.00 in extra jobs such as Con roofs. I have been taking on more work around £800.00 a month cos I have extra time. Plus my prices went up 20% when I went wfp. If I had stayed trad I would of only put them up 8 or 10%, and I would not of increased the price untill the end of this year.
Nel.
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The fact is I am a very quick Trad wc. I have very fast hand speed and I use an 18" squeegee with very little detailing to do. I am extremely fast up and down a ladder, in fact I have never met anyone who was faster then me in going up and down a ladder.
Nel.
Nel,
I've just deleted a post I wrote about Squeakies speed. It was a little bit cheeky; and I self-moderated myself.
But I know Squeaky personally (Roger); he is fast; but no faster than any other fit and healthy person whose been window cleaning for a few years.
I spent an hour this evening with another local window cleaner; and he was just as fast; if not faster than Squeaky, with a squeegie. (Tomo; a member here also).
Roger is just posting stuff like this to wind WFP users up; I can only think because he feels second class because he hasn't got the nous to get WFP set up.
So forgive him, for he does not know what the 'big toe' he's talking about.
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WFP - pro - 1st week with it, just been collecting and everyone LOVES it!
WFP - con - I'm half as fast as I was with Trad! Cant see that altering if I want to rinse throughly each time.
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wfp
pros: safer, more money, quicker, can do extras like facias and gutters so again more money, reach high windows, gets to windows that trad can't reach (again more money), gives window cleaning a higher profile.
cons: intial costs, draging hoses round the backs (plantpots are a nightmare) making pure water.
trad
pros: cheaper
cons: dangerous in the wrong hands, limited reach, (over conservatorys etc) and slower.
having summed all that up it seems that wfp is about safety and making more money.
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Tosh, sometimes you speak sense, but this time you posted a right load of testicles.
I don't deliberately try to wind anyone up.
If they can't handle my facts then ignore them.
I'm no faster than any other fit experienced w/c'er?
I'd put that to the test any day mate.
Bring on anyone except Terry Burrows.
You never spent any time around me working.
You can't just watch me squeegee one pane and make a judgement.
It's the whole job from start to finish I'm organised with.
Feel I'm second class?
Ha ha!!!!! ;D
Now that is extremely funny!
Second class is getting some machine to do it for you, and doing a second rate job.
Wfp users like to think they make me feel that way.
It boosts their ego now that they've stopped actually "cleaning" windows.
I'll always know I'm the master. ;)
I think this the definitive "Trad defence" rant, so I won't be writing anything this long again.....just quoting this one. :P
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Shiner you must be bored too. ;D
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MY DADS GOT A BIGGER CAR THAN YOU ,AND MY DADS BIGGER THAN YOUR DAD NA NA NA NAA
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Tosh.
Squeaks Is not winding me up. I know he has nailed his colours to trad w/c. Fair dicum.
its easy to just stick with what you know. I know my mentor in w/c is still Trad and does not know if he will be switching over to wfp, hes just waiting to see what happens.
For me it took a lot of thinking weather to switch from trad to wfp. I earn on average £300.00 +, more every week then when I was trad. I now preffer wfp to trad w/c.
I am safer and my bank balance is very healthy, I am saving to buy a brand new porche boxter next year and wfp will get me that car a lot faster then trad w/c.
Their are negatives with wfp but the positives make up for it.
Nel.
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So Nel, if you're doing £300+ a week more, then you're saying.....
On my 20-25 hours a week of roughly £8 average jobs, that you could do £750-800 a week?
In 20-25 hours with average prices?
You'd have to do 5 an hour every hour all week.
Including travelling.
Don't think so.
You can't have been quick trad.
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1) Are we having an ARGUAMENT or an ARGUMENT?
I dunno cap'n - does your name include a Kieth or a Keith? ;D
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I've tried to stay out of this - but Squeaky, you must realise that you are humiliating yourself with some of those comments.
You are insanely funny though !!
I use wfp and trad , for which ever suits a particular task
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Squeaks.
Yep no problem.
The thing is I plod along with wfp and earn £30.00 an hour, If I wanted to go fast I could get my hourly rate up to £40.00 an hour.
I dont have a mortgage or any debt so most of the money I earn I can save, so I dont need to go fast anymore. But talking of speed.My freind who has a 125ltr tank in the back of an old astra estate car took £500 in a 10 hour day last week cleaning domestic customers going as fast as he could. He said if he was doing it trad he would of been lucky to get £250. I dont care how fast you are trad you will not get near this lad on a days work when hes flat out. In fact he would beat two w/ c working together doing trad. FACT.
Nel.
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I think there is too much nonsense being spouted on this thread to make an argument worthwhile!
JohnL
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Now their is no need to be argumentitive JohnL.
Nel.
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the thing that I like about trad, is there no machinery involved, I had another business where I relied on machinery, when things went well, it was great but when things went wrong, it was a headache.
stoping to repair equipment, going to buy spares etc.
Im reluctant to go into wfp for that reason, but I must stress I cant speak for the benefits wfp, and if the increase in earnings and safety compensate for any problems.
personally I plan to stay trad, and build up ground level work, to stop future working at height regs being a problem for me.
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Squeeky, you've made my day love the sign. Good sense of humour.
Doug
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It's a pleasure Doug. ;D
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Foxman,
Anyone in their right mind trad or WFP will know what their limits are to making money, will
wfp users bring prices down. No , too much cost envolved if they do then they have money
to waste. Only guys who can do that is trad and they will be the £2.50 guys which I'm
sure y will not like.
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WFP, Pros: Safer generally,
Cleans frames,
Easier to rip people off. (why is this ripping people off squeaky? I charged just the same as when I was traditional, all that's changed now is it doesn't take so much time! Thats not ripping people off!!!!)
Cons: Can't use on a lot of jobs.
Access problems.
Danger to public. Why and how???
Inconsistant results.
Trad, Pros: Still fast (in the right hands)
Thorough job every time.
Less access problems. (NEVER in a million years, I will take you to as many commercial and high rise and awkward domestic accounts as you care to mention and guarentee you will NOT be able to get to them with ladders without problems, FACT!!!)
Cons: Dangerous if incompetent on ladders.
Some windows can't be reached.
Can be hard work.
Rog. (balanced and fair I think)
Sorry, but to be fair Squeaky I am always looking to defend you on this forum as I realise you do get unjust critisism at times due to you being traditional, however, when you post replies like that I can't help but ask why?
Best wishes,
Trev
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WFP, Pros: Safer generally,
Cleans frames,
Easier to rip people off. (why is this ripping people off squeaky? I charged just the same as when I was traditional, all that's changed now is it doesn't take so much time! Thats not ripping people off!!!!)
Cons: Can't use on a lot of jobs.
Access problems.
Danger to public. Why and how???
Inconsistant results.
Trad, Pros: Still fast (in the right hands)
Thorough job every time.
Less access problems. (NEVER in a million years, I will take you to as many commercial and high rise and awkward domestic accounts as you care to mention and guarentee you will NOT be able to get to them with ladders without problems, FACT!!!)
Cons: Dangerous if incompetent on ladders.
Some windows can't be reached.
Can be hard work.
Rog. (balanced and fair I think)
Sorry, but to be fair Squeaky I am always looking to defend you on this forum as I realise you do get unjust critisism at times due to you being traditional, however, when you post replies like that I can't help but ask why?
Best wishes,
Trev
Actually Trev, none of Squeaks WFP cons stand up!!
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Easier to rip people off. (why is this ripping people off squeaky? I charged just the same as when I was traditional, all that's changed now is it doesn't take so much time! Thats not ripping people off!!!!)
Well there's a lot of people who want more now, to justify their costly equipment. Easy to do, as they big it up to the customer.
Danger to public. Why and how???
As I said before, hoses across pavements, wet or icy paths, waving a big pole about around people. Parking on pavements. The list goes on.
Less access problems. (NEVER in a million years, I will take you to as many commercial and high rise and awkward domestic accounts as you care to mention and guarentee you will NOT be able to get to them with ladders without problems, FACT!!!)
I don't do high rise commercial.
I've been around counting in a few of my areas, and there's more windows I couldn't get to with wfp than with ladders. FACT.
So there you go. Answers.
Those who can't see those points are kidding yourselves.
It's just as likely to be banned as ladders.
Public safety is more important than the operative in the governments eyes.
John TC, you really are in dreamworld with your pole. ;D
All cons are wrong?
So you can use it on any flaky oxidised frames?
It's perfect every time?
;D ;D ;D
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So you can use it on any flaky oxidised frames?
Flaky oxidised frames we have done wfp but flaky POWDER COATED aluminium frames.
No No No No...........(you get the picture) >:(
Sarah
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Ok Squeaky, lets do this then.
1) Ripping off customers to justify equipment costs? Think if you read many postings about this you will see if anything people feel the prices will come down, not up!
2) Hoses across pavements ( any area we work is coned off from public)
Wet or Icy paths - and you go up a ladder in these conditions ?????? SAFE!!!
Waving a big pole around verses carrying a much bigger and heavier ladder,
which do you think will do the most damage?
Parking on pavements, well you put your ladders on pavements where public
can walk into them and not only injure themselves but perhaps bring you down
too!!
3) You don't do high rise commercial? Why, because your ladder won't reach? It's
not safe that high up a ladder? maybe you can't reach?
4) You can get to a window with a ladder but not with a pole? So you're telling me
that if I stand at the bottom of your ladder I can't reach the same window you
can. Somehow I don't think so. How do you reach a window over a 20ft
conservatory, do you climb on the glass, erect scaffolding, stretch your ladder
over the roof? Which is your method to do these or do you just say sorry, my
ladder won't reach?
I have in my unit a 3 tier ladder, it weighs around 60kg, extends to 45ft and having been stood at the top many many times I can tell you, its not nice! Having now got a choice which way I would like to clean windows at this height I am glad to say WFP every time.
Best wishes,
Trev
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I don't use a ladder to do shops, so no I won't have it on a pavement.
You'll still have a trip hazard.
Prices may come down, but wfp users want more money for the job usually.
Oh, and how can wfp do windows above flat roofs, over gates, open windows, cracked leaded, etc...etc...
The only ones I don't do are above conservatories, and the customer's fine about that.
There's loads of windows I couldn't access with wfp.
Why can't blinkered wfp uses just accept that?
It's cost you silly money, that's why. ;)
Not directing this personally at you Trev, it's the forum in general.
Rog.
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go on my son
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I don't use a ladder to do shops, so no I won't have it on a pavement.
You'll still have a trip hazard.
Some shops or offices in the high streets we do have a 1st floor as well, when we use the WFP all the area is coned off and warning signs put out. If people chose to ignore them that is at their own risk! If you were to do these customers you would have to use a ladder and hence would be a risk to the public.
Prices may come down, but wfp users want more money for the job usually.
Personally I charge the same as I would have done if I were traditional. I make my money by the speed of not using ladders.
Oh, and how can wfp do windows above flat roofs, over gates, open windows, cracked leaded, etc...etc...
Flat Roofs - Climb my ladder and WFP the window stood on the roof?
Gates - Climb over and pull the hose around with me?
Open Windows - I close them?
Cracked leaded - I buff them traditionally?
The only ones I don't do are above conservatories, and the customer's fine about that.
I do clean the windows above conservatories and my customers are fine with that too?
There's loads of windows I couldn't access with wfp.
There are just as many if not more that I wouldn't want to get to using my good old ladder again, 2nd floor upwards.
Why can't blinkered wfp uses just accept that?
Why can't blinkered Traditional just accept that? ;)
It's cost you silly money, that's why. ;)
Afraid of change, that's why ;)
Not directing this personally at you Trev, it's the forum in general.
Same as that Squeaky, just fancied a good old debate before my holiday tomorrow ;D
Rog.
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I'm enjoying this topic and i'm glad i started it - lol.
I'm interested in WFP but i'm enjoying Trad at the moment, personally i don't mind handling the ladders - i've got an 11 rung triple and it keeps me fit as a fiddle, I'm quite safe on it and don't take any risks.
I've never tried WFP so can't really comment on it, but i have picked up a couple of customers in recent weeks who were using a WFP guy, he wasn't doing a very good job and one woman showed me the windows that he had just done (literally 20 minutes before) and i must say that they were rubbish. This guy must have been doing something wrong, there were water marks and misses all over the place.
I guess either method is only as good as the person in control of it.
Oh, and sorry i spelt argument wrong, tiredness gets me every time - ;)
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how would you wfp, do houses with only access is over the garage roof i do a lot of them, up the ladder, over the roof and back again then same next door.
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how would you wfp, do houses with only access is over the garage roof i do a lot of them, up the ladder, over the roof and back again then same next door.
Same here, and lots of other things only accessable to ladders.
"Afraid of change" I find rather funny!
Not that desperate to keep up with the Jones's I'd call it. ;D
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how would you wfp, do houses with only access is over the garage roof i do a lot of them, up the ladder, over the roof and back again then same next door.
if the only access is to climb over a garage roof then the jobs not worth doing, replace it with another job that has less hassle.
last week 1 of my regulars decided to buy a caravan and park it on the drive by the back gate access, it was to tight for me to squeze through, so what did i do?
simple, i dropped the job as i don't do houses that give me grief or are a problem, there is so much work out there (getting better every week) why make life hard for yourselves.
as for some of the comments with ref to wfp not being able to reach all windows on my round i can think of only 1 job where 1 window is missed because it can't be reached by wfp or ladder.
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if the only access is to climb over a garage roof then the jobs not worth doing, replace it with another job that has less hassle.
Only takes 20 seconds.
Quicker than getting all that equipment out of your van!
Besides I do a lot of up and over houses with windows on the side too.
You couldn't do them!
No chance, don't even bother telling me you could. ::)
I "box clever". ;)
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if the only access is to climb over a garage roof then the jobs not worth doing, replace it with another job that has less hassle.
Only takes 20 seconds.
Quicker than getting all that equipment out of your van!
Besides I do a lot of up and over houses with windows on the side too.
You couldn't do them!
No chance, don't even bother telling me you could. ::)
I "box clever". ;)
your missing the point squeaky, it's not wether i can do them, if you read my comments correctly you will note that i won't do them if they are not hassle free.
as i said, why create more work for yourselves?
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I agree.
I want my round as simple and hassle-free as possible.
That's 95% of of the reason I don't want wfp.
How long is this poxy debate going to on..... ;D
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Wow the feathers are flying!!
I am trad and dont have an issue with using my ladders,starting up a wfp system is not an option due to the costs and maintenance involved plus I think I would struggle to get higher priced work to justify it.
I access houses using me ladders to climb into the rear of the premises also but havent a full round to justify dropping a client for the hassle.
Horses for courses as I see it,you opt for your preferred method and good luck to us all I say but have to say I am in the trad camp and it would take a lot to make me even consider wfp,trad as long as you have a bucket of water,an applicator,a squegee a scrim/microfibre and a ladder you are in business,wfp seems to me to be a whole lot of hassle and expense but it obviously works for a lot of the lads here so fair do's but not everyone wants a system or needs it.
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I agree.
I want my round as simple and hassle-free as possible.
That's 95% of of the reason I don't want wfp.
How long is this poxy debate going to on..... ;D
for as long as you leave replies that need an answer i guess
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Wow the feathers are flying!!
I am trad and dont have an issue with using my ladders,starting up a wfp system is not an option due to the costs and maintenance involved plus I think I would struggle to get higher priced work to justify it.
I access houses using me ladders to climb into the rear of the premises also but havent a full round to justify dropping a client for the hassle.
Horses for courses as I see it,you opt for your preferred method and good luck to us all I say but have to say I am in the trad camp and it would take a lot to make me even consider wfp,trad as long as you have a bucket of water,an applicator,a squegee a scrim/microfibre and a ladder you are in business,wfp seems to me to be a whole lot of hassle and expense but it obviously works for a lot of the lads here so fair do's but not everyone wants a system or needs it.
Totally agree with you captain “horses for courses”
I for 1 will not knock w/cs using trad because lets face it any w/c that’s been in the biz for 5 years or more would have started as a trad, me included,
In the 80’s I was trad as it was the only way, luckily I never fell from a ladder but came close a few times, I move abroad for a while and on my return started up again and discovered wfp.
I soon changed over to wfp because of the safety issue more than anything because at my age in life I don’t think my bones could handle the fall from a ladder at height.
Don’t get me wrong, I do not and will not slate trad cleaners as I myself was one (infact I still trad clean bungalows etc) and I would like to think that trad cleaners won’t slate wfp but as we know on this forum both take a bashing from either side.
Each method has it’s place and each w/c has the right to choose what method he/she prefers.
Jay
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Seems to me all you wfp are lazy oh carn,t be bothered doing that street oh carn,t be bothered doing that house theres dog muck in garden,wot are you window cleaners, are men with big bog brush,take the rough with the smoth and become one of the elite like us traders no job to small. ;D
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Wow the feathers are flying!!
I am trad and dont have an issue with using my ladders,starting up a wfp system is not an option due to the costs and maintenance involved plus I think I would struggle to get higher priced work to justify it.
I access houses using me ladders to climb into the rear of the premises also but havent a full round to justify dropping a client for the hassle.
Horses for courses as I see it,you opt for your preferred method and good luck to us all I say but have to say I am in the trad camp and it would take a lot to make me even consider wfp,trad as long as you have a bucket of water,an applicator,a squegee a scrim/microfibre and a ladder you are in business,wfp seems to me to be a whole lot of hassle and expense but it obviously works for a lot of the lads here so fair do's but not everyone wants a system or needs it.
Totally agree with you captain “horses for courses”
I for 1 will not knock w/cs using trad because lets face it any w/c that’s been in the biz for 5 years or more would have started as a trad, me included,
In the 80’s I was trad as it was the only way, luckily I never fell from a ladder but came close a few times, I move abroad for a while and on my return started up again and discovered wfp.
I soon changed over to wfp because of the safety issue more than anything because at my age in life I don’t think my bones could handle the fall from a ladder at height.
Don’t get me wrong, I do not and will not slate trad cleaners as I myself was one (infact I still trad clean bungalows etc) and I would like to think that trad cleaners won’t slate wfp but as we know on this forum both take a bashing from either side.
Each method has it’s place and each w/c has the right to choose what method he/she prefers.
Jay
Exactly mate,I can totally see why WC develop into wfp for safety reasons and access etc,and if its benefitting your business and helping turnover you would be a mug to turn your back on it. I was sat in me car outside a supermarket and now I myself am a WC was looking at it with a view to cleaning it and decided that in a certain area maybe only wfp could do the job,and on some houses I do some windows which I cant get to -above conservatories-might be a wfp job,so it has its uses.At the minute being trad I can do a lot of windows domestically but not all due to its limitations and if I wanted to expand into commercial wfp would have to come into the frame but currently domestic is all I want so like you say we can structure what we do given what we have to offer.
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Seems to me all you wfp are lazy oh carn,t be bothered doing that street oh carn,t be bothered doing that house theres dog muck in garden,wot are you window cleaners, are men with big bog brush,take the rough with the smoth and become one of the elite like us traders no job to small. ;D
point proven
Don’t get me wrong, I do not and will not slate trad cleaners as I myself was one (infact I still trad clean bungalows etc) and I would like to think that trad cleaners won’t slate wfp but as we know on this forum both take a bashing from either side.
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Can't see the point in this thread to be honest.
Do what you want, but don't ram it down other people's throats as being better.
I only respond because I don't like the holier-than-thou condescending attitude of wfp users.
Nice to see I'm not on my own on this one though.
There's more trad defending going on than just me on here..... :)
Anyway, anyone got a "lock" button?
(sorry to wfp users for using big words) ;D
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I can see where Squeeky is coming from, in fact he has made a lot of valid points, i dread going to some jobs now with wfp, i must stress these are different to the ones i dreaded when i was trad.
Some points he made are very valid indeed, i wont highlight them all, but the point about trailing hoses is very valid.I think i will cause more danger for my customer with my hose than i ever did with my ladder , how many times have you tugged your hose for that bit more , even though you are pulling it around three sides of an house,
Are you sure your customer is not about to step over the hose as you yank it, be honest weve all pulled the hose blind.
I have noticed some of the so called wfp experts have only been wfp for less than 12 months and suddenly know all the dangers of wfp, I dont think so!!!!!
I was 7 years trad and was still learning the dangers right to the end and that was just a simple ladder.
I wish every one would realy examine the points being raised rather just defending at all costs.
Dave
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Can't see the point in this thread to be honest.
Do what you want, but don't ram it down other people's throats as being better.
I only respond because I don't like the holier-than-thou condescending attitude of wfp users.
Nice to see I'm not on my own on this one though.
There's more trad defending going on than just me on here..... :)
Anyway, anyone got a "lock" button?
(sorry to wfp users for using big words) ;D
I would defend trad too even though I don't use it much now.
The funny thing is, when I am out there working, I am the one who is outnumbered if these debates occur. It's all pretty good natured as I know the guys who I have had these discussions with. It's funny how rumours can propagate. A couple of the guys I stop and chat with sometimes have all heard bad things about WFP - from people who have never used it. Therefore, they assume that what they have heard is true. Then they see me using it and ask me things and discover that there is another side to it. Far from having a dig at me, there's a bit of respect there because I've had the ba lls to go for it. In fact, one of them put me onto a one off job recently as he couldn't access it. It was a 45 pounder and was a help to my finances that week.
Whether doing trad or WFP, I am reasonably happy in my work most of the time. This is the only job I've ever had that I could say this about. It's just a pity I'm under financial pressure for the next few years as that is pushing me into doing things that I don't really want to do.
I admit that I did struggle a bit with WFP for a while and I struggled even more with the attitude of some of my customers. That phase seems to have passed now - though there has been something like a 5 - 10% turnaround (losses and gains) in my customer base.
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if the only access is to climb over a garage roof then the jobs not worth doing, replace it with another job that has less hassle.
Only takes 20 seconds.
Quicker than getting all that equipment out of your van!
Besides I do a lot of up and over houses with windows on the side too.
You couldn't do them!
No chance, don't even bother telling me you could. ::)
I "box clever". ;)
I think it's more hassle with WFP because you have to use the ladder anyway with trad. With WFP, it's an extra task. Add to this, many people with WFP need a van that can carry more weight which usually means the van is taller (harder to get ladder off).
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I can see where Squeeky is coming from, in fact he has made a lot of valid points, i dread going to some jobs now with wfp, i must stress these are different to the ones i dreaded when i was trad.
Some points he made are very valid indeed, i wont highlight them all, but the point about trailing hoses is very valid.I think i will cause more danger for my customer with my hose than i ever did with my ladder , how many times have you tugged your hose for that bit more , even though you are pulling it around three sides of an house,
Are you sure your customer is not about to step over the hose as you yank it, be honest weve all pulled the hose blind.
I have noticed some of the so called wfp experts have only been wfp for less than 12 months and suddenly know all the dangers of wfp, I dont think so!!!!!
I was 7 years trad and was still learning the dangers right to the end and that was just a simple ladder.
I wish every one would realy examine the points being raised rather just defending at all costs.
Dave
Quite right too David. You new non-smokers have to stick together I suppose ;D .
To cut down a little on the risk from hoses, I am going to make a small change. So far, I have the hosereel by the van. I have to pull the hosereel out as far as I need it before putting the rubber safety mat over it on the pavement. This means that I leave an unattended hose across the public footpath for a short while. This is because the hose patching the gap between van and reel is quite short. I will now make up a much longer piece to go between van and reel so that I can lay the mat over it before I unreel the hose. It will need to be fairly long to allow for a wide grass verge and a wide footpath as a worst case scenario. Obviously the risks on the premises would still be present but at least the public area would be made safe. Also, I don't pull the hose around too many corners as it's hard work. I tend to pull a load of hose after me then take it to the next corner (not always of course. This means that when I am pulling on a hose I am only tightening a length I can see. Of course I don't always do this but at least doing it when I feel there is a risk present will help to reduce that risk.
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Can't see the point in this thread to be honest.
Do what you want, but don't ram it down other people's throats as being better.
I only respond because I don't like the holier-than-thou condescending attitude of wfp users.
Excuse me but if you bother to look through this thread the first person to start being condesending about the method was in fact you!!! Read your first two postings. First posting you made inacurate accusations and in the second you were rude!
Talk about pot calling kettle black.
Nice to see I'm not on my own on this one though.
There's more trad defending going on than just me on here..... :)
Anyway, anyone got a "lock" button?
(sorry to wfp users for using big words) ;D
Thanks for you apology regarding big words but yet again you can't keep your argument civil!
I see your only reply to my posting was based on "afraid of change", why didn't you answer any other points I raised, let me guess, you couldn't be bothered ZZZZzzzzz same old, same old.
I have cleaned windows traditionally for 15 years and have earned the right to talk about ladder work. I have, and always will, maintained that WFP has a place in this industry and brings with it many benefits. I have NEVER said it is a total replacement for ladders as this is not true.
Instead of unjustified endorsements regarding a system you don't own why not come and spend the day with my guys. I will even pay you for your day so you don't lose out and perhaps instead of shouting from the roof top with a blindfold fixed in place you can see what benefits there are to everyone in this industry. Take a look at my avatar, my van has a ladder on it, not for show but because we use it to go over roofs, climb onto flat roofs and go over gates just as I would do if I was traditional!
God I am glad I am going away for a week.
Have a good week everyone >:(
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I dont have an holier then thou attitude to wfp.
I dont look down on anyone who wants to stay trad.
But its wrong when someone slags wfp off all the time when he has never used it. How can you honestly give a fair and even assessment of wfp if you have never used it.
I can give a fair and honest assessment of both methods. I have cleaned trad w/c for over 26 yrs. How many on this forum can beat that for experince?
I still carry my ladders and use them at some point every day. I have just picked up a job this morning for £60.00, its Trad for now but I have said he can have the job done for £50.00 if he wants wfp.
I bought a new ladder at christmas costing over £200 despite investing in wfp.
I have found wfp gives perfect results on 99.9% of windows I do. The windows that I have a problem with are done trad. Any windows that I cant reach with wfp on flat roofs are done trad. I use both systems in perfect harmony but most work is done wfp.
My health is the most important thing to me, and when I start a days work with my feet on the ground It feels great. I dont mind climbing ladders, but I dont want to do it all day long, wfp gives me the choice.
I am not wfp cos I am lazy or cant hack ladder work anymore. Thats far from the truth, only last Saturday I did a 26 mile run which took me over three mountions in 5 1/2 hours.
I have freinds who are wfp only and they have no intention of risking their health for anyone or at any price. They have cheap systems in their cars, about £700.00 for everything but can earn between £300 and £500 a day.
One young lad of 19yrs of age earned £500 on domestic work with wfp. His dad a w/c since 1978 earns about £120 a day trad w/c. Who would you rather be?
Nel.
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if you earn £500.00 pound a day there will be no point coz the tax man will take 40% coz you will be in super taxs bracket
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I know Bumper, I know.... ::)
Trev:
My 2nd post? Yes I was rude. I shouldn't have been, but as usual I was told how great wfp is, when I'm not interested.
But my 1st post? Inaccurate accusations? I gave the pros and cons as asked.
If it showed up a few people then that's not my fault.
I gave an honest view of the pros and cons of both methods.
and Nel....(or Trev) I don't need to try it.
You think I haven't seen it and it's results enough times already....?
It doesn't impress me enough to spend lots of money on a machine to have to service and rely on.
I prefer my method and results, and I'm just as quick generally.
Thanks, but no thanks.
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Bumper.
Your wrong in asumeing he will be paying 40% tax. The lad only works part time.Some w/cleaners will work 3 days what he can earn in a day. He works one and half weeks a month. To earn the same money in another job he would be working full time. He counts his free time as more important to him then being at work,so the faster he works the more free time he has.
You want to stay Trad Squeaks. Thats fine, its no skin off my nose. I can only comment on what wfp has done for me and my circle of freinds who have gone wfp. I know three of them would of stopped w/c if they had not switched. One was bored to death of climbing ladders all day so wfp as given his job a new lease of life. The other developed virtigo so he was going to stop w/c but wfp has been able to allow him to continue. My other mate who has w/c for over 20 yrs was looking to retrain himself as an electrician due to him being tired all the time climbing up and down ladders, wfp as allowed him to continue w/c and the quality of his home life as improved due to him not being knackerd.
For me, I am earning more money in less time and I am safer. When I have had people working withme which as been most of my working life w/c. I have allways done the upstairs windows, on average 200 times a day I climbed those ladders 5 days a week. My health risk due to falls as been greatly reduced.
Just cos I have got wfp I am not Trad bashing, I never have and never will, for me I am glad I have got it. I could sell my wfp gear tommorw And I would make a nice sized profit it on it. I wont because I like the system my customers like it, I have asked about 90% of them if they would like me to go back to Trad and the only answer I have had His NO.
I am happy with it, My customers are happy with it, My customer base is increasing rapidly cos of wfp. I know what side my bread is buttered on.
The only downside to trad and you might not of got their yet because I dont know how old you are, Is the older you get the slower you get. With Trad you have to push yourself harder to earn the same money and thats when tierdness will get you. When you start to feel that tierd you might consider wfp then. For now keep yourself safe.
Nel.
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Bumper.
Your wrong in asumeing he will be paying 40% tax. The lad only works part time.Some w/cleaners will work 3 days what he can earn in a day. He works one and half weeks a month. To earn the same money in another job he would be working full time. He counts his free time as more important to him then being at work,so the faster he works the more free time he has.
You want to stay Trad Squeaks. Thats fine, its no skin off my nose. I can only comment on what wfp has done for me and my circle of freinds who have gone wfp. I know three of them would of stopped w/c if they had not switched. One was bored to death of climbing ladders all day so wfp as given his job a new lease of life. The other developed virtigo so he was going to stop w/c but wfp has been able to allow him to continue. My other mate who has w/c for over 20 yrs was looking to retrain himself as an electrician due to him being tired all the time climbing up and down ladders, wfp as allowed him to continue w/c and the quality of his home life as improved due to him not being knackerd.
For me, I am earning more money in less time and I am safer. When I have had people working withme which as been most of my working life w/c. I have allways done the upstairs windows, on average 200 times a day I climbed those ladders 5 days a week. My health risk due to falls as been greatly reduced.
Just cos I have got wfp I am not Trad bashing, I never have and never will, for me I am glad I have got it. I could sell my wfp gear tommorw And I would make a nice sized profit it on it. I wont because I like the system my customers like it, I have asked about 90% of them if they would like me to go back to Trad and the only answer I have had His NO.
I am happy with it, My customers are happy with it, My customer base is increasing rapidly cos of wfp. I know what side my bread is buttered on.
The only downside to trad and you might not of got their yet because I dont know how old you are, Is the older you get the slower you get. With Trad you have to push yourself harder to earn the same money and thats when tierdness will get you. When you start to feel that tierd you might consider wfp then. For now keep yourself safe.
Nel.
nice one neil
that just about sums it up
argument won I think!!
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and Nel....(or Trev) I don't need to try it.
You think I haven't seen it and it's results enough times already....?
It doesn't impress me enough to spend lots of money on a machine to have to service and rely on.
I prefer my method and results, and I'm just as quick generally.
Thanks, but no thanks.
You stick In the mud! Change with the times squeek or be left behind in the trad age ;)
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This is an amusing argument!! sueeky defends our territory well and has amusing "come backs" to the wfp commentors
I am still trad and will be for some time yet I should think. Yes, I fell off my ladder and broke my feet, but will still be going back to work doing trad wc'ing!
I would love to go out and buy wfp setup so I wouldnt have to risk it anymore, but I just cant afford it all.
At the end of the day, thats the first time I have fallen off in about 6 years...and I should think it will be the last (i hope) as I will be even more careful from now on :)
trad is good and keeps you fit, and at the same time looks good to people watching -- looks more of an art than wfp useage ;)
I havent used wfp so cant really comment on saftey issues too much, although it has to be obvious that you dont use ladders so death must be ruled out ;D
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You stick In the mud! Change with the times squeek or be left behind in the trad age ;)
Are you watching Trev?
This is the sort of uneducated crap I have to listen to. ::)
Left behind?
In what way?
More fool you if you want to be a sheep like the others.
Like I've said before, you'll end up ten-to-the-dozen.
Proper window cleaners like me will be sought after and be able to command a higher price.
I'll certainly laugh when your little bubble bursts.
It'll happen.
Open your eyes, you're falling for it. ;D
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Oh squeek my man! So easy to wind up. I knew that would get you going ;D
No offence meant!
I still do traditional cleaning as I'm breaking in wfp to each one of my areas. Traditional Is great but so Is wfp.
Traditional will allways have a place In my van alongside my wfp setup.
Life Is very short squeek, as I unfortunatly know! Life Is also very precious.
If I can reduce the risk of injury to myself and other people surely that Is good?
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Well yes you reduce risk to yourself, but increase it for others with hoses and water everywhere.
Still, look after number 1. ;D
I don't know why everyone's so scared of ladders all of a sudden.
You've got about 1,000 times more chance of crashing your car on the way to the job.
Anyway, I'm off for a day out.
Away from the "ARGUAMENTS" ;D
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Bumper.
Your wrong in asumeing he will be paying 40% tax. The lad only works part time.Some w/cleaners will work 3 days what he can earn in a day. He works one and half weeks a month. To earn the same money in another job he would be working full time. He counts his free time as more important to him then being at work,so the faster he works the more free time he has
There you go a lazy wfp window cleaner. argument sorted ,works one and half weeks a month,now thats a lazy wfp if ive ever seen one
;D
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Re this trad v wfp battle it seems obvious to me that both have their place and its down to choice,as trad I cant get to every window or do some jobs,wfp might allow me that but I dont want to go the expense and hassle of getting the gear,I think I do a good job trad and am happy to use my ladders.The wfp users themselves admit wfp isnt the answer all the time and I have read posts where they have to use trad sometimes and still utilise a ladder now and then evenwhen using wfp.
End of the day we clean windows and make a living,its a choice regarding what method we all use and for whatever reason we have all made choices for varying factors,I think we should draw a line under this debate and acknowledge both forms have their merits and maybe the bad mouthing should be dropped cos its an argument that cant be won,stop baiting Squeaky and lets all have a cup of tea and or a beer.
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This is an amusing argument!! sueeky defends our territory well and has amusing "come backs" to the wfp commentors
I am still trad and will be for some time yet I should think. Yes, I fell off my ladder and broke my feet, but will still be going back to work doing trad wc'ing!
I would love to go out and buy wfp setup so I wouldnt have to risk it anymore, but I just cant afford it all.
At the end of the day, thats the first time I have fallen off in about 6 years...and I should think it will be the last (i hope) as I will be even more careful from now on :)
trad is good and keeps you fit, and at the same time looks good to people watching -- looks more of an art than wfp useage ;)
I havent used wfp so cant really comment on saftey issues too much, although it has to be obvious that you dont use ladders so death must be ruled out ;D
hi dennis
sorry to hear about your fall and i hope you recover ok.
a lot of w/cs are put off buy the price of going wfp but don't be
go to http://d.co.uk/phpbb/index.php?sid=68b835ee2bfff0177748851ca654cc76
make your own system DIY and save yourself a fortune
at the end of the day you cannot put a price on your life
your safety is parramount to any amount of money
also bare in mind the once you get used to wfp you will be getting around much quicker therefore taking on more work and making more money
wfp will pay for it's self in no time if you put the effoet into it
meanwhile if you do carry on trad take it easy on your ladder
jay
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This is an amusing argument!! sueeky defends our territory well and has amusing "come backs" to the wfp commentors
I am still trad and will be for some time yet I should think. Yes, I fell off my ladder and broke my feet, but will still be going back to work doing trad wc'ing!
I would love to go out and buy wfp setup so I wouldnt have to risk it anymore, but I just cant afford it all.
At the end of the day, thats the first time I have fallen off in about 6 years...and I should think it will be the last (i hope) as I will be even more careful from now on :)
trad is good and keeps you fit, and at the same time looks good to people watching -- looks more of an art than wfp useage ;)
I havent used wfp so cant really comment on saftey issues too much, although it has to be obvious that you dont use ladders so death must be ruled out ;D
hi dennis
sorry to hear about your fall and i hope you recover ok.
a lot of w/cs are put off buy the price of going wfp but don't be
go to http://d.co.uk/phpbb/index.php?sid=68b835ee2bfff0177748851ca654cc76
make your own system DIY and save yourself a fortune
at the end of the day you cannot put a price on your life
your safety is parramount to any amount of money
also bare in mind the once you get used to wfp you will be getting around much quicker therefore taking on more work and making more money
wfp will pay for it's self in no time if you put the effoet into it
meanwhile if you do carry on trad take it easy on your ladder
jay
thanx j :)
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its been a good debate on here, with both sides having made good points
As I said in my earlier posts, that I think I can, very soon, have a round with just ground floor work if I choose to do this.
so my question for WFP users is, if you could turn back time to before you got your wfp systems, if you could choose between wfp or soley working on the ground, would you have still bought wfp?
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After reading this lot, it's not an argument I'm going to get into unless I was sat bored in the pub on a wet saturday afternoon and was in the mood for it.
Personally I sit in both corners, we use ladders when required or WFP when required, there are situations for both, they are both simply tools of a window cleaner the same as a plumber may use soldered joints or push fit joints, personal preference and whatever fits the situation best.
WFP operated by a competent person will generally outperform ladders, the only time this may not be the case is if it is a small standalone single property, where the trad guy may get his gear off and set up quicker than the WFP guy. But if you have two or more houses close together, the WFP guy will fly ahead.
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After reading this lot, it's not an argument I'm going to get into unless I was sat bored in the pub on a wet saturday afternoon and was in the mood for it.
Personally I sit in both corners, we use ladders when required or WFP when required, there are situations for both, they are both simply tools of a window cleaner the same as a plumber may use soldered joints or push fit joints, personal preference and whatever fits the situation best.
WFP operated by a competent person will generally outperform ladders, the only time this may not be the case is if it is a small standalone single property, where the trad guy may get his gear off and set up quicker than the WFP guy. But if you have two or more houses close together, the WFP guy will fly ahead.
Your right you have have to know your work, and whats the best way to do it,
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so my question for WFP users is, if you could turn back time to before you got your wfp systems, if you could choose between wfp or soley working on the ground, would you have still bought wfp?
WFP 100% its changed my whole working life having been up a ladder for 16 years, I now love going to work, its all so given me a very good income, which has help me and my loved ones a better life and also knowing I am safe and end of the day thats whats its all about as work is not the be all and end all of life
Andy
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Bumper.
What are you talking about. Lazy wfp.
The dictionary defenition for Lazy :- Resistant to work or exertion, given to idleness. slothful. Slow moving, sluggish.
When this lad is at work He would blow you away because he works at such a high tempo, The hose is reeled in and out at breakneck speed and everything is done at warp speed. When he earned £500 in 10 hours wfp, he was shaking when he got home through the effort that he had put in. Sorry a Lazy person would not do that and if your doing that trad for the day you will earn around the £200 mark. Deffinetly not slow moving or sluggish then.
The lad as decided that money is not the be all and end all in life. Time is what really matters to him and he wants to use his time on the things he classes as important. Society dictates you should work 5 days a week, 8 hours a day for what your boss will pay, minimum wage £6.00 an hour upwards. 8hrs x £6.00 = £48.00 x 5days = £240.00. I wonder how many lazy persons choose this option.
There are some of us who do not buy into what society says is the norm. He as set a target of what he wants to earn a month to live off. he reaches that with ease, he is not someone whos on the dole wanting the state to provide for him. Hes his own boss setting the hours he wants to work and living life as he choses. That by defention does not make him lazy.
A lazy person would not put the effort in to build a quality round like he has got.
Their are very few people in life who are content with what they earn, they allways want more. this lad is happy and content with what he earns and at the momment spending 3 weeks exploring Canada.
Nel.
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From Trev'
Ok Squeaky, lets do this then.
1) Ripping off customers to justify equipment costs? Think if you read many postings about this you will see if anything people feel the prices will come down, not up!
Interestingly of the 5 new customers I have picked up recently from word of mouth, 3 have moved from WCer's who have recently changed to a WFP system because they put the prices up dramaticaly giving the reason they had to pay for the high investment price of the new equipment/technology! Oh, and one previous to this shot himself in the foot by filling his van system up from the customers outside tap without asking and they were on a water meter so they were doubly unhappy.
Perhaps some are increasing their costs to cash in but some will clearly have to revise their price because some customers will soon realise that costs versus time will show savings which they will want to see a share of.
JohnL
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Naughty boy filling tank without asking.
Prices? I put my prices up 20% when I went wfp this year to help get some of the set up costs back. Customers are delighted with their nice shiny frames and shiny windows.
I did not think it was excessive a rise. First it was 2 years since I last put up my prices, and I have told my customers the present price will be held for three years which equates to a average 6.5 % a year approx.
I have lost 30 customers this year approx, for lots of diffrent reasons, the most common reason being price. But There are lots of w/c who will undercut you in my area. Fair Dicum I provide a very proffesonal service that most customers appreciate whilst cleaning windows to a very high standard. I will never price match and my w/c round is the biggest its ever been.
Customers pay for a quality service, Cheap w/c come and go.
Nel.
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Bumper.
What are you talking about. Lazy wfp.
The dictionary defenition for Lazy :- Resistant to work or exertion, given to idleness. slothful. Slow moving, sluggish.
When this lad is at work He would blow you away because he works at such a high tempo, The hose is reeled in and out at breakneck speed and everything is done at warp speed. When he earned £500 in 10 hours wfp, he was shaking when he got home through the effort that he had put in. Sorry a Lazy person would not do that and if your doing that trad for the day you will earn around the £200 mark. Deffinetly not slow moving or sluggish then.
The lad as decided that money is not the be all and end all in life. Time is what really matters to him and he wants to use his time on the things he classes as important. Society dictates you should work 5 days a week, 8 hours a day for what your boss will pay, minimum wage £6.00 an hour upwards. 8hrs x £6.00 = £48.00 x 5days = £240.00. I wonder how many lazy persons choose this option.
There are some of us who do not buy into what society says is the norm. He as set a target of what he wants to earn a month to live off. he reaches that with ease, he is not someone whos on the dole wanting the state to provide for him. Hes his own boss setting the hours he wants to work and living life as he choses. That by defention does not make him lazy.
A lazy person would not put the effort in to build a quality round like he has got.
Their are very few people in life who are content with what they earn, they allways want more. this lad is happy and content with what he earns and at the momment spending 3 weeks exploring Canada.
Nel.
Which is exactly the way my life would be if I didn't owe money etc.
When I first started window cleaning I had little and owed nothing. I eventually learned how to earn decent money from a ladder back in the early 90s. There were times I would wake up in the morning and just decide to take off to say Cornwall for a few days to visit friends. I earnt less than I do now. I certainly owed a lot less than I do now. I was a lot happier with my life in many respects. I won't ever get that type of life back but by working hard for a few years I can get into a healthy position once more and have my freedom again.
Best wishes to the guy for putting work in its rightful place.
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Well put Shiner.
Some people work to live, others live to work, a few are slaves to work, but a fortunate few find the balance between life and work.
One of my sons is an actor, he needs money to live, but he lives to act, he has a great lifestyle and cannot beleive he gets paid for something he loves doing. He his a rare case in life.
The beauty of w/c is that gives you the choice of how hard you want to work and what you want to earn.
My youngest son at the momment is building up his own w/c round with a little help from me, but he likes the fact how much he earns will be dictated to by how much he works and how hard. He his setting up wfp only instead of trad. Which is great as we dont have to worry about him falling off a ladder.
Weather your trad or wfp it gives you the choice of how hard to work. I started in 1980 and in 2 years I will reach the youthfull age of 50. I want to see the world, I have raised my family so me and the wife are going to travell. I plan to only work for 9 months of the year, having 3 months in winter to go to places like Australia. New Zeland etc. I have worked hard all my life, but wc as given me a very good lifestyle and I have put a lot of money away over the years and made some good invesments.
Wc gives you the choice in method and how hard you want to work.
Nel.
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Well put Shiner.
Some people work to live, others live to work, a few are slaves to work, but a fortunate few find the balance between life and work.
One of my sons is an actor, he needs money to live, but he lives to act, he has a great lifestyle and cannot beleive he gets paid for something he loves doing. He his a rare case in life.
The beauty of w/c is that gives you the choice of how hard you want to work and what you want to earn.
My youngest son at the momment is building up his own w/c round with a little help from me, but he likes the fact how much he earns will be dictated to by how much he works and how hard. He his setting up wfp only instead of trad. Which is great as we dont have to worry about him falling off a ladder.
Weather your trad or wfp it gives you the choice of how hard to work. I started in 1980 and in 2 years I will reach the youthfull age of 50. I want to see the world, I have raised my family so me and the wife are going to travell. I plan to only work for 9 months of the year, having 3 months in winter to go to places like Australia. New Zeland etc. I have worked hard all my life, but wc as given me a very good lifestyle and I have put a lot of money away over the years and made some good invesments.
Wc gives you the choice in method and how hard you want to work.
Nel.
Window cleaning is the best job I've had. I can work hard and earn well or I can skive off if I feel like it without having to ask permission. I don't have to beg time off to go to the doctor or dentist. I can have a lie-in if I'm knackered (and if my noisy neighbours don't wake me) and I don't have to work for difficult people. I even get along quite well with people who, in most industries, would be regarded as competitors.
How many industries will you get someone offering a "competitor" a bit of unofficial training free of charge (well maybe for the breakfast anyway ;D )
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Come on lets tell the world how much window cleaners can earn, this is one aspect of the arguement we should leave out.
£500 is a rarity and if the truth be known 90% struggle to take £500 in a week never mind earn that much after deductions.
Most of the window cleaners i know locally are on much less than that figure even the wfp boys,
Dave
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Well said David - supermen I am not and I dont believe many WCers are :)
its like the hod carrier, you have to do it while you can 'cus it will not last forever - stamina - being overly fit and full of energy and go etc
only mho
JohnL
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I am not wfp cos I am lazy or cant hack ladder work anymore. Thats far from the truth, only last Saturday I did a 26 mile run which took me over three mountions in 5 1/2 hours.
Nel.
Way to go Neil! Which mountains were they?
I did three mountains on Saturday too and that took five and a half hours as well - but that was only about seven miles!
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Malc,
Whernside. Inglbourgh , Penygent, They are known as the Yorkshire three peaks.
I am doing the lakes three peaks in two weeks, Thats 47 miles and includes Skidaw, Helvellyn and Scar fell. Did it last year in 11 hours but I could hardly move when I had Finished.
Dave whats wrong with letting know what somebody earns? If you have the Amercian mentality it should be Good on him and If he can do that so can I. Putting a price down should inspire others to try to acheive it.
Nel. Think positivley.
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Neil
All i am saying is tell the world, then where will be in 5 years time, you are not just telling a few mates you are telling the world.
How many people do you think are coming into window cleaning just because they have heard tales of £50k a year, only to be dissillusioned with the reality.
Big earners keep it to yourselves because you are not helping no one,
That is my opinion
Dave
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Sorry Dave but I dont agree.
The lad who earned £500 in a day is just an odinaery lad who has been given good advice on how to price up properly and work hard. If everyone did the same it would stop the dole boys w/c and a lot of w/c undercutting each other.
Not everyone can be a success at w/c cos they lack the self dicipline to work and dont have a good buisness plan.
Nel.
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£500 in a day, ok everyone how many here can get anywhere near that figure?
I would say most dont even turn that over in a week, with statements like that you are giving out the wrong impression
As i have said before, this is an extremely rare case and cannot be achieved by 99.9% of window cleaners just a few supermen
Dave
Answers please
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I agree with you Dave and imho its high time people stopped bragging about how much they can or do earn on this site - thats not knocking you Neil100 but it gets boring to hear inflated and isolated figures like this which give a completely inaccurate image of WCing
JohnL
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£500.00 a day!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would be happy to earn that a week, i must be doing something seriously wrong. :-\
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All i am saying is tell the world, then where will be in 5 years time, you are not just telling a few mates you are telling the world.
How many people do you think are coming into window cleaning just because they have heard tales of £50k a year, only to be dissillusioned with the reality.
Look what happened to plumbing.
Nearly half the kids in school a year ago wanted to be plumbers.
Too many now, and it doesn't pay so well.
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£500.00 a day!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would be happy to earn that a week, i must be doing something seriously wrong. :-\
I know a local window cleaner who has one day, every other month, where he can earn that amount.
But usually; nowhere near.
But I think if you live 'down South', have been window cleaning for a few years; work somewhere between 30 to 40 hours per week; £500 a week shouldn't be a problem; weather depending.
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To Neil100,
Wor Lass is running the Snowdon Marathon in September; she reckons it's something like the second toughest road marathon in Western Europe!
Fancy that? You sound like you could do it. I'll be there, egging her on; eating cheese-burgers and holding a can of lager, shouting, 'C'mon - faster - you lazy Taff'.
I'd like to see you there!
Next year she's planning to run a Mountain Marathon, but her map reading skills are non-exsistant; so a female friend (a quality female runner) is going to run with her.
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Sorry to say this but are some of the members here crazy?
Look at the number of registered members of this forum and then take a look at the number who regularly post. I for one will keep quiet about earnings. I even see posts where people have shown properties and they state what they earn from them some of these have quite easilly identifying features on them. I am sure there are lurkers who watch this sort of thing and use the info they gain for their own purposes. If you get my meaning.
There is a wealth of knowledge available to anyone here on the hows,costs,equipment needed and everything neeeded to get into window cleaning. Please be a bit more discreeet about posting earnings. Whether it be per property or per day,week etc.
By all means pass on tips about becoming successful to help others but as the old saying goes.. walls have ears. Or in this case. Computer screens.
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Sorry to say this but are some of the members here crazy?
Look at the number of registered members of this forum and then take a look at the number who regularly post. I for one will keep quiet about earnings. I even see posts where people have shown properties and they state what they earn from them some of these have quite easilly identifying features on them. I am sure there are lurkers who watch this sort of thing and use the info they gain for their own purposes. If you get my meaning.
There is a wealth of knowledge available to anyone here on the hows,costs,equipment needed and everything neeeded to get into window cleaning. Please be a bit more discreeet about posting earnings. Whether it be per property or per day,week etc.
By all means pass on tips about becoming successful to help others but as the old saying goes.. walls have ears. Or in this case. Computer screens.
Extreme,
Posts of this nature have been ongoing since the inception of this and other similar forums for about three years now.
Window cleaners start up, can't hack it and leave. I personally know of one ex-member who put his family through turmoil, because of the big earnings promised from this site, only to return back to his previous occupation; no doubt a bit demoralised too.
It's not easy money.
But David@St Ives has often made the same point as yourself.
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Yes Tosh I can see what you mean.
I don't think that in general it is bragging. I think it's people who are gunuinely proud of what they have achieved through hard work and determination and done in the spirit of encouragement to get people to get off their back sides and put in the effort. I am sorry about what happened to the ex member but really he must be a bit wet behind the ears to think that mega earnings are easy to come by in any business.
Once again I refer to my thread about change being on its way. A smart and motivated person can glean a whole lot of info and then use it to formulate a realistic business plan.
I am justas proud of my business as many here are of theirs but I still like others not in our trade to think of me as just another window cleaner ;)
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I totally agree with the sentiments about discussing how much you earn per day/week/month/year. I don’t even tell my friends that, this is a matter only to be discussed between my wife my accountant and the dreaded tax man.
It goes without saying that newbies that come across this site will think it’s easy money (and we know it’s not) and before you know it there will be more window cleaners starting up in your local area making it harder for you to make a living.
By all means discuss topics such as canvassing for more work and pricing etc as we could all do with a bit of help when first starting out.
I would like to think that we are all making a living from our job as a w/c but I also believe that some people on this and other forums tell a few porkies about their earnings just to make themselves look good (god knows why)
Only recently someone started a thread asking “how much do you earn”
And my reply was………….
“as you may be a undercover taxman i had better be honest with you.
on a good day £3-99p
on a bad day £0-47p”
personally I’m not interested in how much anyone else earns wether you are Richard Branson or Fred the window cleaner, my only concern is that I myself earn enough to pay my mortgage and put food on the table for my family.
The fact that I own a Jag, have a villa in the south of France, a penthouse suite in Mayfair and spend 9 months of the year on cruise ships (as a client not a w/c) is totally irrelevant ;D
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The fact that I own a Jag, have a villa in the south of France, a penthouse suite in Mayfair and spend 9 months of the year on cruise ships (as a client not a w/c) is totally irrelevant
Are you sure it's not as a WCer I've heard it said that you clean most windows as though they are portholes ;) ;)
yes it could me me paul, no wfp on this job only a damp scrim needed
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Oh you answered & you didnt take offence. Im so scared of upsetting people on this forum I had 2nd thoughts & deleted my posting
I completely agree with your last comments, I can't see why some use this forum to brag about their earnings.
Firstly it gives non WCers the idea that the streets are paved with gold when they aren't. And even if they are paved with silver, the more we talk it up the more people will come into our industry & the less we will all earn.
Secondly it must be infuriating to members such as Gazza who are struggling to make any money. Lets not rub their noses in it.
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Oh you answered & you didnt take offence. Im so scared of upsetting people on this forum I had 2nd thoughts & deleted my posting
I completely agree with your last comments, I can't see why some use this forum to brag about their earnings.
Firstly it gives non WCers the idea that the streets are paved with gold when they aren't. And even if they are paved with silver, the more we talk it up the more people will come into our industry & the less we will all earn.
Secondly it must be infuriating to members such as Gazza who are struggling to make any money. Lets not rub their noses in it.
Certainly no offence taken Paul I do have a sense of humour,
I am glad you agree with my sentiments about discussing earnings
I live in a built up lucrative area (Southampton) so for me and fellow w’cs we do ok as there is a lot of work about.
My concern is the w’cs who may live in a less lucrative area ie in the country where there are more w’cs per house ratio
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I'm going to lock this topic guys, it has now drifted somewhat away from the original question.
Not in a bad way, but the subject has now mutated.
Locked.
Ian