Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: jay moley on October 04, 2021, 07:28:40 pm
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Had a young 21 year old lad with me for a month now with no prior experience of window cleaning.
Wondering whether to keep him.
POSITIVES:
Punctual and reliable - hasn't been late or called in sick
Doesn't backchat or moan when I ask him to do do something
Good with customers
Does what I tell him to do (kindof, see below)
NEGATIVES:
Slow (im trying to speed him up and too be fair dont expect amazing speed after a month)
Isn't picking everything up despite me repeatedly telling him - eg I have to remind him to bring the tap with him when working, disconnect it at the end of the job, wipe the sills, get the van ready when filling up with water. He also keeps asking me whether he can start the job! Drives me nuts.
Slow packing up at the end of the job (ive told him about this a good few times now)
Bit soft - doesn't want to get in amongst it when you have awkward jobs where a tree might rub against you or you get wet.
Today he was saying his neck hurt after the first job and was knackered at the end of the day (wasn't a tough day at all). He's as thin as a stick insect mind.
Big problem is that we are not hitting the numbers to make it worthwhile yet. In fact only broken even on three days. So losing money.
Tough one as im 50/50 as to whether he can make the grade.
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Maybe have a chat and explain your problem. See what his reaction is, maybe give him 2 weeks more. The positives are difficult to replicate in others and the negatives should be something that can be 'worked on'.
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Maybe have a chat and explain your problem. See what his reaction is, maybe give him 2 weeks more. The positives are difficult to replicate in others and the negatives should be something that can be 'worked on'.
Tend to agree. Obviously no one will care as much as me or give it as much as me. Not sure he's used to the fast paced nature of the job. His previous jobs were in a toy shop and a bookies. No perfect employee is there.
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Not sure he's used to the fast paced nature of the job.
How many jobs you cleaning in a day mate, and what would be a days total for you (or the two of you) ?
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Not sure he's used to the fast paced nature of the job.
How many jobs you cleaning in a day mate, and what would be a days total for you (or the two of you) ?
I do £350 on my own minimum. Have only hit £450 together (which is the break even figure) three times, though one of those days he went home at his agreed finish time and I did another job.
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Not sure he's used to the fast paced nature of the job.
How many jobs you cleaning in a day mate, and what would be a days total for you (or the two of you) ?
I do £350 on my own minimum. Have only hit £450 together (which is the break even figure) three times, though one of those days he went home at his agreed finish time and I did another job.
Ok mate i take your point , that is too slow. Think you may be best telling him what you expect of him and if it doesn't pan out etc....... You may as well be working by yourself.
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Im going to have a "chat" with him tomorrow. Ive been very patient with him but he needs to know that now that we are a month in we have to be productive.
At the end of the day there's no point having him unless he's making me more money. As you say at the moment I would be better on my own.
Im hoping this is just a painful period I have to go through before he becomes productive.
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chat first -
list out your "concerns" LISTEN to his answers and why he works at the speed he does
LIST the positives
then give him till the end of the month to improve - monitor - set targets - then review
if he cant pick up the speed and keep quality then time to say bye bye
I think as a 2 man your looking at £500 - £550 a day based on your single man performance and after a month that is an easy target as your driving and leading the way
Darran
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From what you have described, it sounds like he may have 'learning difficulties'.
My stepson is autistic and also has learning difficulties.
I would have a friendly chat, tell him the 'situation' and what you would like to achieve for both of you (don't mention problems) and see what HE recommends to improve things.
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From what you have described, it sounds like he may have 'learning difficulties'.
My stepson is autistic and also has learning difficulties.
I would have a friendly chat, tell him the 'situation' and what you would like to achieve for both of you (don't mention problems) and see what HE recommends to improve things.
top post
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From my experience you can usually tell after just a day or so whether or not they will be make it.
Just bin him and try someone else
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Reading your review of him I think the positives outwiegh the negatives, if the attitude is right the abilty will develop,
When you go into the market for new employees you will find it a real minefield, wading through the dross out there will be "very demanding".
The guys young, only been doing the job a few weeks (and only working for wages), you can't expect him to go to your pace and dedication, the guy will be more scared of making mistakes than speed at this stage.
Financially its not yet working, I understand that but you are investing in the guy for the future, you cant expect insta payback, you should persevere and try to encourage him through it, rather than intimidate him.
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If you look for someone that’ll work like you and take as much care you may as well go on eBay and look for a 🦄 unicorn,you’ve done well if you can find someone that will work 75% like you do.
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2 men in one van will not do double the work of 1 man in a van ever on the glass.
takes a while to properly train an employee up tbf and that is if you are a decent teacher.
In no way expect them to be as eager as you , they are an employee not the one earning in their eyes the big money you are on.
2 more weeks and perhaps give him a checklist to complete on every job, takes 30mins to type up once in a while and get him to staple it to the payment sheet after he has completed it,
frames
glass
doors
sills
etc etc
2 weeks of this and it will be automatic.
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Explain things and give him some top tips for speeding up and he can now do the basics he needs to show he can reproduce the work at a faster pace!
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If you earn well on you’re own you don’t need to earn double and it depends what you earn on your own also,you can bang on about what can be done but all work is different 2 of you cleaning large houses or big commercial buildings can and will earn double.
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If you earn well on you’re own you don’t need to earn double and it depends what you earn on your own also,you can bang on about what can be done but all work is different 2 of you cleaning large houses or big commercial buildings can and will earn double.
2 men in one van will never do the same as 2 vans with 1 man in each ever on the glass.
1 man doing 25 jobs at a quality finish is 8.30 till 2/3 depending on locations.
you can add in an fsg or conny roof on these vans at £50-£100.
1 van with 2 ops will never do 50 jobs plus in the same time.
Taken from experience of having 4 vans on the road at one point.
"unless you have the unicorn of rounds that is"
i know they may exist but i have yet to see one.
our best at the minute is a cul de sac of 12 x 4 bed houses and we clean all 12 at an average of 12.50 and it takes 17.5 mins each one and nets £150 but takes 3.5 hours to quality clean and service/communicate with and add a 15 minute travel time on.
a ticket takes a few minutes to write and deliver.
train him him correctly and keep on training, staff are difficult as f*** to deal with.
getting customers is without the easy part of a cleaning business tbf
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No but if you do only 6 jobs a day on you’re own you would Pi££ 12 jobs wouldn’t you,like I say depends what you would normally do on you’re own and I’m not talking anywhere near 50 jobs that’s ridiculous and you shouldn’t be needing to do half that amount if you’ve been at this job a long time and you’ve wheat and chaffed along the way.
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Tickets are a thing of the past now a job gets cleaned and a text message is sent at the time or later in the day,if it’s a job that’s significantly more money wise and an invoice is required an invoice is scanned copied and sent that day also.
When I’m home I go and feed the unicorn 🦄 and sit down to tea with Lord Lucan,I may have a nap and wake up in a cold sweat of the thought that I may have 25-50 jobs in front of me for the next day lol.
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Tickets are a thing of the past now a job gets cleaned and a text message is sent at the time or later in the day,if it’s a job that’s significantly more money wise and an invoice is required an invoice is scanned copied and sent that day also.
When I’m home I go and feed the unicorn 🦄 and sit down to tea with Lord Lucan,I may have a nap and wake up in a cold sweat of the thought that I may have 25-50 jobs in front of me for the next day lol.
you do you m8. i was helping the op. on his problem,
i could not care less how you help your unicorms pay im merely trying to help someone in need.
i get paid to sit at home unless i choose otherwise ;D
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No but if you do only 6 jobs a day on you’re own you would Pi££ 12 jobs wouldn’t you,like I say depends what you would normally do on you’re own and I’m not talking anywhere near 50 jobs that’s ridiculous and you shouldn’t be needing to do half that amount if you’ve been at this job a long time and you’ve wheat and chaffed along the way.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1634284023_7C59A059-04DE-4331-B032-FE129A9765E3.jpeg)
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Yeah lol people can’t do certain things so they think it’s impossible for the next bloke to do it,we don’t all clean 25-50 houses or jobs a day.
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25 a week was that 🤣🤣🤣
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Yeah lol people can’t do certain things so they think it’s impossible for the next bloke to do it,we don’t all clean 25-50 houses or jobs a day.
You don’t realise what you’ve just said there do you about thinking doing something is impossible. Which is exactly what you think about 25 or 30 houses a day.
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Yeah lol people can’t do certain things so they think it’s impossible for the next bloke to do it,we don’t all clean 25-50 houses or jobs a day.
You don’t realise what you’ve just said there do you about thinking doing something is impossible. Which is exactly what you think about 25 or 30 houses a day.
He does come across like this - but in fairness Nigel says he won't do 25 houses a day - he would rather travel 2 hours across Kent to do a clean then an hour to his next clean then 3 hours drive home - each to their own
the problem with Nigel he thinks he is superior and likes to ridicule people because they work differently
Darran
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He does come across like this - but in fairness Nigel says he won't do 25 houses a day - he would rather travel 2 hours across Kent to do a clean then an hour to his next clean then 3 hours drive home - each to their own
the problem with Nigel he thinks he is superior and likes to ridicule people because they work differently
Darran
Hang on, you can understand what he posts?
I’m genuinely surprised people still take notice of anything he’s got to say!!
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I’ve been out working this morning and just seen 2 blue arsed flies 🪰,sorry I mean 2 other window cleaners 🤣🤣🤣
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I’ve been out working this morning and just seen 2 blue arsed flies 🪰,sorry I mean 2 other window cleaners 🤣🤣🤣
I know you know what you’re on about, if only you were able to convey it (that means to communicate) to others…
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Saw a bloke cleaning inside and out of a pub at 7-30 drove past again 3 hours later he was still cleaning it only an average building,he doesn’t do 25 jobs a day lol.
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It took you three hours to type that didn’t it.
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No I’ve been busy finishing off 50 jobs.
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He does come across like this - but in fairness Nigel says he won't do 25 houses a day - he would rather travel 2 hours across Kent to do a clean then an hour to his next clean then 3 hours drive home - each to their own
the problem with Nigel he thinks he is superior and likes to ridicule people because they work differently
Darran
Hang on, you can understand what he posts?
I’m genuinely surprised people still take notice of anything he’s got to say!!
I've trained my eyes and brain to not seem them. Now and then one sneaks in but mostly I don't even register he's posted.
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No I’ve been busy finishing off 50 my hand jobs.
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That’s more like it.
Now I predict a response from him with sexual innuendos about homosexual sex. You’ve started him off Darren…
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Plenty of beer bellies on here still do it traditionally on their own lol.
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Everyones areas are different so doing 3 big houses a day might be possible in the cotswolds, in a town centre with rows of terraced you work differently. 40 x 10 quid compact terraced or 3 mansions in a day. Same outcome.
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No it’s not the same outcome though is it you do your 40 terrace houses and I’ll do my 3,let’s do this for 5 days and see who’s still fresh to enjoy the weekend.
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No it’s not the same outcome though is it you do your 40 terrace houses and I’ll do my 3,let’s do this for 5 days and see who’s still fresh to enjoy the weekend.
So if you only do 3 houses a day what do all your employees do ???? Sit and watch ??? Or did you forget you had them 😂😂😂😂
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I was answering the question I’m obviously not the only one that doesn’t read them,3-4-5-6 gotta be better than doing 20-30 imo.
I’ve tried to refine what I do so I’m not chasing about like an idiot every day trying to keep on top of my work,the bigger the houses the more you charge the less you need to do or am I missing something.
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I was answering the question I’m obviously not the only one that doesn’t read them,3-4-5-6 gotta be better than doing 20-30 imo.
I’ve tried to refine what I do so I’m not chasing about like an idiot every day trying to keep on top of my work,the bigger the houses the more you charge the less you need to do or am I missing something.
Yes your missing 2 things...
Comprehension and empathy...
Darran
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I was answering the question I’m obviously not the only one that doesn’t read them,3-4-5-6 gotta be better than doing 20-30 imo.
I’ve tried to refine what I do so I’m not chasing about like an idiot every day trying to keep on top of my work,the bigger the houses the more you charge the less you need to do or am I missing something.
I think you are missing something.
If you can comfortably (comfortably is the important bit) clean 15 houses per work day and take £300 you are going to be better off over time than cleaning 6 houses per work day (similar amount of time out of the house per day as 15 houses) for £240.
Thinking you are working smart doesnt trump the actual numbers.
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No you are wrong because if you can comfortably do half a dozen houses a day you are better off for 1 you don’t need to rush 2 you don’t get way behind with work and 3 if you price correctly you’ll earn more,you don’t need to tell people they are doing it m8.
Who in their right mind wants a 1000 houses or jobs on their books when they can earn the same in half the time as the bloke cleaning 500 ,or if they want to work longer they can earn a lot more.
Divide the amount you earn by the number of jobs you’ve done in a week that’ll give you your average number per job if it’s 25 some would be over the moon,some cleaners will do this and regularly hit 70-75 it’s a numbers game yes and a higher number per job relates to how hard you are having to work for you’re 300 in relation to running around.
Having lots of jobs in 1 area at a time can burn you out and get you wanting to pack this job up variation and working in different places mixes it up,not surprised people get fed up when all their works on the doorstep.
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No you are wrong because if you can comfortably do half a dozen houses a day you are better off for 1 you don’t need to rush 2 you don’t get way behind with work and 3 if you price correctly you’ll earn more,you don’t need to tell people they are doing it m8.
Who in their right mind wants a 1000 houses or jobs on their books when they can earn the same in half the time as the bloke cleaning 500 ,or if they want to work longer they can earn a lot more.
Divide the amount you earn by the number of jobs you’ve done in a week that’ll give you your average number per job if it’s 25 some would be over the moon,some cleaners will do this and regularly hit 70-75 it’s a numbers game yes and a higher number per job relates to how hard you are having to work for you’re 300 in relation to running around.
Having lots of jobs in 1 area at a time can burn you out and get you wanting to pack this job up variation and working in different places mixes it up,not surprised people get fed up when all their works on the doorstep.
OK In the example I gave the cleaner cleaning 15 houses takes £300 a day, the cleaner cleaning 6 houses takes £240 a day. The man cleaning 15 smaller houses earns £60 a day more. £60 a day extra is a fair chunk (and percentage) of additional nett income.
So in the example given both cleaners leave the house at 8am, the man with 6 houses is home by 11am the man cleaning 15 is home by 1pm. The 15 house man isnt out till 5pm cleaning!. He works 10 hours more per week but has an extra £300 in his pocket to play with.
Over say a 6 week cleaning frequency (5 cleaning weeks to allow for weather and holidays) thats an extra £1500 for the 15 a day man, both men will think they have a part time job, the man working the token extra hours has a better paid part time job though. The other fella plays more Playstation or wastes even more time doing nothing in particular.
How few hours a day do you want to work?
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No you are wrong because if you can comfortably do half a dozen houses a day you are better off for 1 you don’t need to rush 2 you don’t get way behind with work and 3 if you price correctly you’ll earn more,you don’t need to tell people they are doing it m8.
Who in their right mind wants a 1000 houses or jobs on their books when they can earn the same in half the time as the bloke cleaning 500 ,or if they want to work longer they can earn a lot more.
Divide the amount you earn by the number of jobs you’ve done in a week that’ll give you your average number per job if it’s 25 some would be over the moon,some cleaners will do this and regularly hit 70-75 it’s a numbers game yes and a higher number per job relates to how hard you are having to work for you’re 300 in relation to running around.
Having lots of jobs in 1 area at a time can burn you out and get you wanting to pack this job up variation and working in different places mixes it up,not surprised people get fed up when all their works on the doorstep.
He isn’t wrong tho is he? It’s more to do with the fact that you don’t have the capacity to understand what he wrote. He clearly stated that he could work ‘comfortably’ on smaller properties and earn £300 in the same time it would take him to earn £240 working ‘comfortably’ on larger properties.
Your business model works for you, great, would it work for me? Not a chance!
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Your forgetting the niggle factor he cleans 3 houses for £1800 a day ( but does conservatories foc )
However he drives around for hours to reach these jobs ;D
Darran
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Your forgetting the niggle factor he cleans 3 houses for £1800 a day ( but does conservatories foc )
However he drives around for hours to reach these jobs ;D
Darran
His profit must be getting slimmer and slimmer with the cost of fuel and Michelin Cross Climates these days🤣
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That’s the thing see can’t have a sensible conversation.
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Your forgetting the niggle factor he cleans 3 houses for £1800 a day ( but does conservatories foc )
However he drives around for hours to reach these jobs ;D
Darran
His profit must be getting slimmer and slimmer with the cost of fuel and Michelin Cross Climates these days🤣
And Michelin 4s for the new car I’ll be over the border soon 🤣🤣
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That’s the thing see can’t have a sensible conversation.
With all that lol’ing and irrelevant posting I must have missed your serious conversation niggle
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That’s the thing see can’t have a sensible conversation.
With all that lol’ing and irrelevant posting I must have missed your serious conversation niggle
Niggle 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 post of the week contender right there.
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That’s the thing see can’t have a sensible conversation.
Thats rich coming from you - you (Modded - I understand the sentiment but please post civilly).
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(Modded - I understand the sentiment but please post civilly).
;D
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(Modded - I understand the sentiment but please post civilly).
;D
;)
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Your forgetting the niggle factor he cleans 3 houses for £1800 a day ( but does conservatories foc )
However he drives around for hours to reach these jobs ;D
Darran
Think you missed out the decimal point £18:00 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
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Lol yeah another lol I don’t have a job for 18 actually if anyone’s got one going 🤣🤣🤣
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Little update on this:
So he's been with me two months now. He's a nice enough lad. Doesn't complain, always on time. Does canvassing with me too though not that good at it (not expecting him to be yet).
Problem is still his speed. I've showed him how to be quick and he managed to speed up last week. This week he's back to his old pace. I've asked him why and he hasn't really got an excuse. The more we do the more he will earn but Im thinking he's probably not that motivated by money. Even when he's got a new job canvassing which I give him a cut of, he shows no enthusiasm that he's just earned more. Bit strange really. I think it may be that employees are just turning up to do a job and go home. Obviously they don't care as much as us and I wouldn't expect him to.
He also doesn't have any sense of urgency when we get to a job, slow to get going and packing up. Ive told him about this.
My other major gripe is that he keeps asking me the same questions.
Last two days ive said at the start of the day: "You've got the fronts today, start straight away unless I say otherwise". He's asked me whether he should start at least 5/6 times over the last two days. Also - "should I wipe the sills".
Another one is going to fill up with water (I dont make my own) and him asking whether he should take the lid off the tank and put the pipe in. I wouldn't have a problem if it was the first couple of weeks but he's been working two months now and ive told him to do that when we get there.
The other thing that gets to me is that he takes his gloves off every time we get in the van. We are driving no more than 5 minutes between jobs often less. Its a tiny thing but its just more wasted time. I haven't said anything about that as im wondering whether thats unreasonable and Im going mad. I try to be patient and not be on at him for everything as I don't want him to get disheartened.
Bit of a rant sorry.
Thoughts?
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This time last month you said that the turnover with him on board had gone from £350 with you alone to £450.
Has it improved?
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This time last month you said that the turnover with him on board had gone from £350 with you alone to £450.
Has it improved?
£450 is the break even figure.
A few days we went over £500 but not consistently no.
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Little update on this:
So he's been with me two months now. He's a nice enough lad. Doesn't complain, always on time. Does canvassing with me too though not that good at it (not expecting him to be yet).
Problem is still his speed. I've showed him how to be quick and he managed to speed up last week. This week he's back to his old pace. I've asked him why and he hasn't really got an excuse. The more we do the more he will earn but Im thinking he's probably not that motivated by money. Even when he's got a new job canvassing which I give him a cut of, he shows no enthusiasm that he's just earned more. Bit strange really. I think it may be that employees are just turning up to do a job and go home. Obviously they don't care as much as us and I wouldn't expect him to.
He also doesn't have any sense of urgency when we get to a job, slow to get going and packing up. Ive told him about this.
My other major gripe is that he keeps asking me the same questions.
Last two days ive said at the start of the day: "You've got the fronts today, start straight away unless I say otherwise". He's asked me whether he should start at least 5/6 times over the last two days. Also - "should I wipe the sills".
Another one is going to fill up with water (I dont make my own) and him asking whether he should take the lid off the tank and put the pipe in. I wouldn't have a problem if it was the first couple of weeks but he's been working two months now and ive told him to do that when we get there.
The other thing that gets to me is that he takes his gloves off every time we get in the van. We are driving no more than 5 minutes between jobs often less. Its a tiny thing but its just more wasted time. I haven't said anything about that as im wondering whether thats unreasonable and Im going mad. I try to be patient and not be on at him for everything as I don't want him to get disheartened.
Bit of a rant sorry.
Thoughts?
so , on the whole , hes a nice decent lad , but it appears the main issue is he lacks a sense of urgency , and he is not assertive enough ?
perhars completely restructure the way he gets paid., as an insentive for him ? just an idea.
RE... The little things that annoy you... I think that is to be expected , especially if you have worked on your own for years .
my daughter works with me ... I am used to her and her ways , yet put her in a van with me all day and she makes my teeth itch ;D
shes so messy and unorganised .
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Little update on this:
So he's been with me two months now. He's a nice enough lad. Doesn't complain, always on time. Does canvassing with me too though not that good at it (not expecting him to be yet).
Problem is still his speed. I've showed him how to be quick and he managed to speed up last week. This week he's back to his old pace. I've asked him why and he hasn't really got an excuse. The more we do the more he will earn but Im thinking he's probably not that motivated by money. Even when he's got a new job canvassing which I give him a cut of, he shows no enthusiasm that he's just earned more. Bit strange really. I think it may be that employees are just turning up to do a job and go home. Obviously they don't care as much as us and I wouldn't expect him to.
He also doesn't have any sense of urgency when we get to a job, slow to get going and packing up. Ive told him about this.
My other major gripe is that he keeps asking me the same questions.
Last two days ive said at the start of the day: "You've got the fronts today, start straight away unless I say otherwise". He's asked me whether he should start at least 5/6 times over the last two days. Also - "should I wipe the sills".
Another one is going to fill up with water (I dont make my own) and him asking whether he should take the lid off the tank and put the pipe in. I wouldn't have a problem if it was the first couple of weeks but he's been working two months now and ive told him to do that when we get there.
The other thing that gets to me is that he takes his gloves off every time we get in the van. We are driving no more than 5 minutes between jobs often less. Its a tiny thing but its just more wasted time. I haven't said anything about that as im wondering whether thats unreasonable and Im going mad. I try to be patient and not be on at him for everything as I don't want him to get disheartened.
Bit of a rant sorry.
Thoughts?
so , on the whole , hes a nice decent lad , but it appears the main issue is he lacks a sense of urgency , and he is not assertive enough ?
perhars completely restructure the way he gets paid., as an insentive for him ? just an idea.
RE... The little things that annoy you... I think that is to be expected , especially if you have worked on your own for years .
my daughter works with me ... I am used to her and her ways , yet put her in a van with me all day and she makes my teeth itch ;D
shes so messy and unorganised .
I am incentivising him. He gets an hourly rate but can earn more each day if we do more.
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Send him up to me for a day, I will show him how to speed up😁
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Truth is, he wants some money but not that much money. He’ll never be what you hope he’ll be.
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Working 2 man is never going to reap major rewards per day.
I sometimes work with a lad who helps me out here and there, hes been doing the job years and cleans to a high standard and just as fast as me. We get on well, have a system down and I cant fault his work one bit....
But even then on days where i would do normally 300 (lets say 6 hours), we only manage 400 - 450. By the time hes been paid 100 quid is it really worth it ? Then theres those days when things go wrong and you struggle to break even....
Ive worked 2 man quite a bit and i reckon theres maybe 50 quid a day profit to be had, so ok a grand a month isnt to be sniffed at but to be working with someone all day doing your head in 5 days a week forget it.
As for you trying to incentivise him with more money maybe hes just not bothered about working harder and earning more.
For example before i was a window cleaner i was a delivery driver and they always offered overtime and saturday work, i never took it even though it was double time i just wanted to go home. They also tried to push us to call in at local businesses and leave leaflets and try to get contact details to pass to our office who would then try to drum up business from them. If we got a new client we got a bonus. None of us did it because we couldnt be arsed and wasnt comfortable doing it. Employees just want to do the bare minimum and go home.
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I did make it clear yesterday that if we don't hit certain numbers it isn't worth it for me.
My gut instinct is to give him more time but boy is it frustrating. Just goes to show that there are positives and negatives to working on your own and with someone else.
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I have employed before and much prefer working on my own ,far less hassle.
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I did make it clear yesterday that if we don't hit certain numbers it isn't worth it for me.
My gut instinct is to give him more time but boy is it frustrating. Just goes to show that there are positives and negatives to working on your own and with someone else.
Last lad who i employed lasted 4 months, i knew after 2 weeks he wasnt right but i kept plugging away and away but in the end a dead horse can only be flogged for so long until you want to burn its corpse.
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Working 2 man is never going to reap major rewards per day.
I sometimes work with a lad who helps me out here and there, hes been doing the job years and cleans to a high standard and just as fast as me. We get on well, have a system down and I cant fault his work one bit....
But even then on days where i would do normally 300 (lets say 6 hours), we only manage 400 - 450. By the time hes been paid 100 quid is it really worth it ? Then theres those days when things go wrong and you struggle to break even....
Ive worked 2 man quite a bit and i reckon theres maybe 50 quid a day profit to be had, so ok a grand a month isnt to be sniffed at but to be working with someone all day doing your head in 5 days a week forget it.
As for you trying to incentivise him with more money maybe hes just not bothered about working harder and earning more.
For example before i was a window cleaner i was a delivery driver and they always offered overtime and saturday work, i never took it even though it was double time i just wanted to go home. They also tried to push us to call in at local businesses and leave leaflets and try to get contact details to pass to our office who would then try to drum up business from them. If we got a new client we got a bonus. None of us did it because we couldnt be arsed and wasnt comfortable doing it. Employees just want to do the bare minimum and go home.
Working on domestic your takings should have a much higher margin than what you have said from one to guy guys , on commercial two men will easily double the figures . But it’s swings and roundabouts some times you make very good money and some days less but it’s the monthly figures that count , we work 2 guys per van and have done so for years and it makes good money if done right .
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Little update on this:
So he's been with me two months now. He's a nice enough lad. Doesn't complain, always on time. Does canvassing with me too though not that good at it (not expecting him to be yet).
Problem is still his speed. I've showed him how to be quick and he managed to speed up last week. This week he's back to his old pace. I've asked him why and he hasn't really got an excuse. The more we do the more he will earn but Im thinking he's probably not that motivated by money. Even when he's got a new job canvassing which I give him a cut of, he shows no enthusiasm that he's just earned more. Bit strange really. I think it may be that employees are just turning up to do a job and go home. Obviously they don't care as much as us and I wouldn't expect him to.
He also doesn't have any sense of urgency when we get to a job, slow to get going and packing up. Ive told him about this.
My other major gripe is that he keeps asking me the same questions.
Last two days ive said at the start of the day: "You've got the fronts today, start straight away unless I say otherwise". He's asked me whether he should start at least 5/6 times over the last two days. Also - "should I wipe the sills".
Another one is going to fill up with water (I dont make my own) and him asking whether he should take the lid off the tank and put the pipe in. I wouldn't have a problem if it was the first couple of weeks but he's been working two months now and ive told him to do that when we get there.
The other thing that gets to me is that he takes his gloves off every time we get in the van. We are driving no more than 5 minutes between jobs often less. Its a tiny thing but its just more wasted time. I haven't said anything about that as im wondering whether thats unreasonable and Im going mad. I try to be patient and not be on at him for everything as I don't want him to get disheartened.
Bit of a rant sorry.
Thoughts?
get rid mate.
I'm not sure why you would persevere?
my staff are great. they do more work than i can, day in day out.
they don't complain, the turn up on time, most days i don't hear off them at all. sometimes it goes weeks without hearing off them
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Little update on this:
So he's been with me two months now. He's a nice enough lad. Doesn't complain, always on time. Does canvassing with me too though not that good at it (not expecting him to be yet).
Problem is still his speed. I've showed him how to be quick and he managed to speed up last week. This week he's back to his old pace. I've asked him why and he hasn't really got an excuse. The more we do the more he will earn but Im thinking he's probably not that motivated by money. Even when he's got a new job canvassing which I give him a cut of, he shows no enthusiasm that he's just earned more. Bit strange really. I think it may be that employees are just turning up to do a job and go home. Obviously they don't care as much as us and I wouldn't expect him to.
He also doesn't have any sense of urgency when we get to a job, slow to get going and packing up. Ive told him about this.
My other major gripe is that he keeps asking me the same questions.
Last two days ive said at the start of the day: "You've got the fronts today, start straight away unless I say otherwise". He's asked me whether he should start at least 5/6 times over the last two days. Also - "should I wipe the sills".
Another one is going to fill up with water (I dont make my own) and him asking whether he should take the lid off the tank and put the pipe in. I wouldn't have a problem if it was the first couple of weeks but he's been working two months now and ive told him to do that when we get there.
The other thing that gets to me is that he takes his gloves off every time we get in the van. We are driving no more than 5 minutes between jobs often less. Its a tiny thing but its just more wasted time. I haven't said anything about that as im wondering whether thats unreasonable and Im going mad. I try to be patient and not be on at him for everything as I don't want him to get disheartened.
Bit of a rant sorry.
Thoughts?
get rid mate.
I'm not sure why you would persevere?
my staff are great. they do more work than i can, day in day out.
they don't complain, the turn up on time, most days i don't hear off them at all. sometimes it goes weeks without hearing off them
I'm just not sure whether he might come good given some more time so I'm reluctant to pull the trigger. Hence why I'm getting everyones opinion on here. I've struggled to find someone so I'm concerned that I'll struggle to find someone else quickly if I let him go. I said before that Indeed didn't produce for me. I also need company, I really don't like working on my own. It's not as straightforward as I'm not earning more so I'll get rid unfortunately.
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you need to find the right motivator - money may not be it....
maybe extra holiday or longer days but less days - you need to find out what floats his boat - and if practicable introduce it..
otherwise you need to may the hard decision ( but also look at what and how you pay and what you expect him to do - you might think your reasonable but in truth trying to get too much out of him for what you pay/offer )
Some people don't always work well with others esp. with the boss, he may not feel confident to take the initiative - why don't you put him out for a day a week on his own with the £300 target and see how he copes..
Darran
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If he’s been with you a month and can’t clean £300 a day within another week I’d get rid
Unless there’s a very good reason …
I can’t think of a reason myself tbh!!
I think he’s already down he’s not good enough
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Darren I must just say that’s a load of rubbish you keep going on about money not being the motivator etc you’ve said it before,this job attracts idiots at the end of the day.
Richard and a few others maybe you have been lucky you shouldn’t have to keep buttering them up it’s a job you earn X if you do more you get more or you can have time off if you are an extra good boy lol,at the end of the day you have to be lucky I’ve been lucky a couple of times but it’s not like they are going for a job bond trading it’s window cleaning like I say it attracts a lot of idiots sack him and be done with it and onto the next if you want some more of it.
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you need to find the right motivator - money may not be it....
maybe extra holiday or longer days but less days - you need to find out what floats his boat - and if practicable introduce it..
otherwise you need to may the hard decision ( but also look at what and how you pay and what you expect him to do - you might think your reasonable but in truth trying to get too much out of him for what you pay/offer )
Some people don't always work well with others esp. with the boss, he may not feel confident to take the initiative - why don't you put him out for a day a week on his own with the £300 target and see how he copes..
Darran
Good idea re asking him what would motivate him.
He doesn't drive so can't put him out on his own.
I think I'll give him another month and if not let him go. I should probably tell him that to see whether it speeds him up.
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If he’s been with you a month and can’t clean £300 a day within another week I’d get rid
Unless there’s a very good reason …
I can’t think of a reason myself tbh!!
I think he’s already down he’s not good enough
He's working with me not on his own. So frustrating. No sense of urgency. Might be that this fast paced job just doesn't suit him.
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As soon as they realise they have to work it hits home they have it in their mind it’s an easy job.
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If he’s been with you a month and can’t clean £300 a day within another week I’d get rid
Unless there’s a very good reason …
I can’t think of a reason myself tbh!!
I think he’s already down he’s not good enough
He's working with me not on his own. So frustrating. No sense of urgency. Might be that this fast paced job just doesn't suit him.
what smudger said though is right.. set him out on his own and see what happens. he was a job list and knows you expect him to finish it. some people work better like that.
i had one 2 years back like that. training him wasn't working and we were doing eachother's heads in. but on his own he grafted it out.
he was happy as i wasn't on his back, and he proved he could do it
(i still had to get rid of him this year but thats another story ;))
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Darren I must just say that’s a load of rubbish you keep going on about money not being the motivator etc you’ve said it before,this job attracts idiots at the end of the day.
Richard and a few others maybe you have been lucky you shouldn’t have to keep buttering them up it’s a job you earn X if you do more you get more or you can have time off if you are an extra good boy lol,at the end of the day you have to be lucky I’ve been lucky a couple of times but it’s not like they are going for a job bond trading it’s window cleaning like I say it attracts a lot of idiots sack him and be done with it and onto the next if you want some more of it.
ive been going 11 years and had problems with staff for the last 5 (until this year)
its not luck.
its getting the right job offer, recruiting carefully and properly. and then managing them well
and lets be honest, its getting rid of people who arent right for it
i've had a lot of experience and a lot of very good advice. a lot of excellent advice off smudger's better half
but i've stuck at it and its going well now
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Like I say in the main it attracts certain individuals ok some people have been fortunate I’m not saying you can’t and won’t get lucky but it is luck,the job still has the stigma it’s a stopgap job as far as working for someone goes.
I get loads of offers from people wanting a job they tell me I’ll have some of that home by 12-30-1-00 o’clock lol,interview failed before it started 🤣🤣
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Working 2 man is never going to reap major rewards per day.
I sometimes work with a lad who helps me out here and there, hes been doing the job years and cleans to a high standard and just as fast as me. We get on well, have a system down and I cant fault his work one bit....
But even then on days where i would do normally 300 (lets say 6 hours), we only manage 400 - 450. By the time hes been paid 100 quid is it really worth it ? Then theres those days when things go wrong and you struggle to break even....
Ive worked 2 man quite a bit and i reckon theres maybe 50 quid a day profit to be had, so ok a grand a month isnt to be sniffed at but to be working with someone all day doing your head in 5 days a week forget it.
As for you trying to incentivise him with more money maybe hes just not bothered about working harder and earning more.
For example before i was a window cleaner i was a delivery driver and they always offered overtime and saturday work, i never took it even though it was double time i just wanted to go home. They also tried to push us to call in at local businesses and leave leaflets and try to get contact details to pass to our office who would then try to drum up business from them. If we got a new client we got a bonus. None of us did it because we couldnt be arsed and wasnt comfortable doing it. Employees just want to do the bare minimum and go home.
Working on domestic your takings should have a much higher margin than what you have said from one to guy guys , on commercial two men will easily double the figures . But it’s swings and roundabouts some times you make very good money and some days less but it’s the monthly figures that count , we work 2 guys per van and have done so for years and it makes good money if done right .
Well they wernt ;D, neither of us are slow but on our best day we probably did 500 quid. Sure theres money in it but to me its not really worth it... Maybe its because my round is all one house then move the van, i dont really have compact work where i only need to move the van 4 or 5 times. Perhaps my round is more suited to one man.
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We are 4 pages in, so just get rid of him!
As I said earlier, I think your lad has 'learning difficulties'. As I said, if you can find out what makes him 'tick' you'll be quids in.
If you can't, then i'm not sure he'll be able to earn your hourly rate, so get rid of!
You don't feel really sure yourself...and if you're not sure, then how do you think he feels!
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Working 2 man is never going to reap major rewards per day.
I sometimes work with a lad who helps me out here and there, hes been doing the job years and cleans to a high standard and just as fast as me. We get on well, have a system down and I cant fault his work one bit....
But even then on days where i would do normally 300 (lets say 6 hours), we only manage 400 - 450. By the time hes been paid 100 quid is it really worth it ? Then theres those days when things go wrong and you struggle to break even....
Ive worked 2 man quite a bit and i reckon theres maybe 50 quid a day profit to be had, so ok a grand a month isnt to be sniffed at but to be working with someone all day doing your head in 5 days a week forget it.
As for you trying to incentivise him with more money maybe hes just not bothered about working harder and earning more.
For example before i was a window cleaner i was a delivery driver and they always offered overtime and saturday work, i never took it even though it was double time i just wanted to go home. They also tried to push us to call in at local businesses and leave leaflets and try to get contact details to pass to our office who would then try to drum up business from them. If we got a new client we got a bonus. None of us did it because we couldnt be arsed and wasnt comfortable doing it. Employees just want to do the bare minimum and go home.
Working on domestic your takings should have a much higher margin than what you have said from one to guy guys , on commercial two men will easily double the figures . But it’s swings and roundabouts some times you make very good money and some days less but it’s the monthly figures that count , we work 2 guys per van and have done so for years and it makes good money if done right .
Well they wernt ;D, neither of us are slow but on our best day we probably did 500 quid. Sure theres money in it but to me its not really worth it... Maybe its because my round is all one house then move the van, i dont really have compact work where i only need to move the van 4 or 5 times. Perhaps my round is more suited to one man.
Might be worth looking at each job price perhaps that’s ware the problem lies ??
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We are 4 pages in, so just get rid of him!
As I said earlier, I think your lad has 'learning difficulties'. As I said, if you can find out what makes him 'tick' you'll be quids in.
If you can't, then i'm not sure he'll be able to earn your hourly rate, so get rid of!
You don't feel really sure yourself...and if you're not sure, then how do you think he feels!
I actually asked him whether he had learning difficulties after your original post! - He said no.
Good points.
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We are 4 pages in, so just get rid of him!
As I said earlier, I think your lad has 'learning difficulties'. As I said, if you can find out what makes him 'tick' you'll be quids in.
If you can't, then i'm not sure he'll be able to earn your hourly rate, so get rid of!
You don't feel really sure yourself...and if you're not sure, then how do you think he feels!
I actually asked him whether he had learning difficulties after your original post! - He said no.
Good points.
I'd have told you where to shove your job if you asked me that.
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We are 4 pages in, so just get rid of him!
As I said earlier, I think your lad has 'learning difficulties'. As I said, if you can find out what makes him 'tick' you'll be quids in.
If you can't, then i'm not sure he'll be able to earn your hourly rate, so get rid of!
You don't feel really sure yourself...and if you're not sure, then how do you think he feels!
Exactly that.
I actually asked him whether he had learning difficulties after your original post! - He said no.
Good points.
I'd have told you where to shove your job if you asked me that.
And exactly that too. If you need to ask that there's a great deal not working in the working relationship. No offence meant.
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If he has learning difficulties and no driving licence then this is ideal if you want a lad to work with you and not go off and start his own round....
I know of 2 window cleaners and a gardener that only employ these type of lads...
They might not be perfect but they won't let you down and are grateful for a job....
I'd keep him....he ll get faster in time...
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From what you have posted he's the wrong lad.
From what you have posted you're the wrong boss too.
There are many good fellas out there, it just takes a good boss to get the best out of them, or at least dramatically improve the odds.
Good luck you will get there eventually if you keep trying and learning.
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Being a good boss will get you so far if it was that fact it would be a doddle to employ half a dozen people,everyone has issues some leave them at home some don’t the people that go for window cleaning jobs don’t,you become a part of their nightmare of a life.
You need someone that won’t get bored doesn’t matter what you offer them the job as we know can get boring even more so if it’s not you’re business,someone that’s a bit smarter you are in to other issues once they realise what they could earn on their own it’s tricky.
You know if you’ve found a goer after the first day or 2 I would go for a decent person in general over a silly quick idiot with the pole,speed comes in time being a morally good person doesn’t.
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currently very lucky 7 times and that's just at present ;D
Mind you if he cant drive I wouldn't have employed....
Niggle.... you really are a donut - you bang on about working your hours and only doing 5 houses a day blah blah blah ...
so why would it not be possible for an employee to want shorter days ? or a 3 day week - this is really easy to accomodate no hassle at all - again, beacause you didn't make it work does not mean this is a world wide no no.
AND yes - ive worked with and employed staff that other things in life motivate them rather than just money - happy staff are productive staff
Darran
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From what you have posted he's the wrong lad.
From what you have posted you're the wrong boss too.
There are many good fellas out there, it just takes a good boss to get the best out of them, or at least dramatically improve the odds.
Good luck you will get there eventually if you keep trying and learning.
How am I the wrong boss? Genuine question.
I've been very patient with him, showed him what to do numerous times, never lost my rag or had a go at him. I've been fair to him, he can earn well. Im not sure what else I can do. I'm fairly new at being a boss but I don't think im massively screwing it up. Always looking to improve tho, thats the only reason Im on this forum.
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You may simply not gel with him - nothing more complicated than that
You could be too soft - letting him get away with repeated questions about simple operations
I don't know you personally - but when he asks you might not be rude but exasperated - your actions may undermine him
More core points - wages what you feel is good may not be - I don't know what your arrangement is
are you giving 28 days holiday ?
Does he have to pay for uniform?
there is loads that maybe right or wrong.....
or forget employing and be a total dick like NWH
Darran
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Does he have silk pillows does he drink proper coffee if not get him a coffee machine,make sure you provide him with a full North Face uniform are you winding him after he’s had his milk at 10 o’clock mid morning lol goodness me.
Look m8 I’ll pay you decent money all I ask is that you come in on time leave you’re problems at home and let’s crack on,28 days holiday what’s that in the Maldives 🇲🇻 he ain’t coming with me 🤣🤣🤣
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You may simply not gel with him - nothing more complicated than that
You could be too soft - letting him get away with repeated questions about simple operations
I don't know you personally - but when he asks you might not be rude but exasperated - your actions may undermine him
More core points - wages what you feel is good may not be - I don't know what your arrangement is
are you giving 28 days holiday ?
Does he have to pay for uniform?
there is loads that maybe right or wrong.....
or forget employing and be a total dick like NWH
Darran
In terms of gel I get on with him fine if thats what you mean but I think you mean something else?
I do have the tendency to be uncomfortable with being a tough boss. I like getting on with people which can be a weakness as an employer. I know that and Im working on it.
I have asked him why he keeps asking me the same thing and he just says he's checking. Its hard as I was clear with him yesterday at the start of the day that he was doing the fronts all day and starting straight away when we get to the job. He still asked me whether to start quite a few times. I kind of don't know what to say.
As I said I have told him that unless he speeds up it won't work but I'm not sure he's got the message.
I think he may just not be able to work at the pace thats needed. His past jobs weren't exactly taxing: betting shop, sitting on his a*** all day and a toy shop.
I pay £9 an hour + opportunity to earn more (%) if we go above £450 a day.
He gets 28 days holiday and I provide the uniform.
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All these snowflakes and it’s not even Christmas 🎄 yet.
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If I had someone with me that kept asking the same questions it may just be that he just wanted to make sure he’s doing it right maybe he hasn’t got a lot of confidence and is slow because he wants to do a good job for you.
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The worst thing you could say would be you need to speed up a bit next thing you know he’ll be not only asking a lot of the same questions he’ll be doing a bad job,there’s someone being slow and there’s someone being lazy can’t be ar*** slow.
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Can you trust him round peoples houses I’d take that over a few questions and being on the slow side I can tell you that.
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If hes slow and needs a kick up the ass hes the worng person.
The best ones dont need telling to graft hard they just do it because thats who they are. The slow ones are just that, slow in the head or slow on the feet, either way just bin him already.
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You mention his previous jobs were time watching jobs, paid by the hour to watch time and bog off home once his time was up. You're paying him just above the minimum wage to work at a steady plod along pace, there's your answer, .....no real incentive to step up a few gears and get his performance up and crack on with earning more with little reward for twice as much or more effort than previous jobs. The youth of today in general are lazy and not motivated.
If you explained how he could earn £15-20 an hour and left him to find his own motivation, if he was money motivated I bet he would put some real effort in. Before window cleaning a couple of my jobs were basic pay and I negotiated performance related pay with my employers and was taking home more than double and tripple most of my friends for the same amount of hours by finding the best methods that benefited me of working, so long as the outcome was in the favour of my employers.
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From what you have posted he's the wrong lad.
From what you have posted you're the wrong boss too.
There are many good fellas out there, it just takes a good boss to get the best out of them, or at least dramatically improve the odds.
Good luck you will get there eventually if you keep trying and learning.
How am I the wrong boss? Genuine question.
I've been very patient with him, showed him what to do numerous times, never lost my rag or had a go at him. I've been fair to him, he can earn well. Im not sure what else I can do. I'm fairly new at being a boss but I don't think im massively screwing it up. Always looking to improve tho, thats the only reason Im on this forum.
This employing thing isnt easy, I employ 12 staff and Ive made all sorts of mistakes and my attitude has changed dramatically over time as I learnt about how to employ people.
Your previous posts suggest to me that you are too eager to please, its tough, its all about balance. There have to be rules, sometimes you need to explain why. You need to be tough when toughness is called for and empathetic when empathy is needed. Your staff must respect you, you have to earn that respect by your actions and it takes time. All this is easier if you have the right people to begin with.
Who are the right people? Thats really down to you to work out as you gain experience of people and life, but you have to try a few before you get the right ones. If you know they arent the right person get rid asap and move onto the next one. You will find the right one if you know what personality traits you are looking for AND you treat them right.
I have seen a couple of posts (from others) along the lines of " Its a job any idiot can do. or its just squirting water onto glass" if that your attitude to the people you want then thats what you are going to get (general statement not aimed at you Jay).
Its a complicated subject with many many variables, people want structure and leadership from someone they respect and who respects them. If you respect your employee and arent getting that respect back, get rid. Employing a window cleaner who cant drive wasnt a great move IMO, but you were in a rush to employ (which has made your situation worse.
I wish you well Jay.
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Little update on this:
So he's been with me two months now. He's a nice enough lad. Doesn't complain, always on time. Does canvassing with me too though not that good at it (not expecting him to be yet).
Problem is still his speed. I've showed him how to be quick and he managed to speed up last week. This week he's back to his old pace. I've asked him why and he hasn't really got an excuse. The more we do the more he will earn but Im thinking he's probably not that motivated by money. Even when he's got a new job canvassing which I give him a cut of, he shows no enthusiasm that he's just earned more. Bit strange really. I think it may be that employees are just turning up to do a job and go home. Obviously they don't care as much as us and I wouldn't expect him to.
He also doesn't have any sense of urgency when we get to a job, slow to get going and packing up. Ive told him about this.
My other major gripe is that he keeps asking me the same questions.
Last two days ive said at the start of the day: "You've got the fronts today, start straight away unless I say otherwise". He's asked me whether he should start at least 5/6 times over the last two days. Also - "should I wipe the sills".
Another one is going to fill up with water (I dont make my own) and him asking whether he should take the lid off the tank and put the pipe in. I wouldn't have a problem if it was the first couple of weeks but he's been working two months now and ive told him to do that when we get there.
The other thing that gets to me is that he takes his gloves off every time we get in the van. We are driving no more than 5 minutes between jobs often less. Its a tiny thing but its just more wasted time. I haven't said anything about that as im wondering whether thats unreasonable and Im going mad. I try to be patient and not be on at him for everything as I don't want him to get disheartened.
Bit of a rant sorry.
Thoughts?
Sack him. Too slow, you want one that races with you. Even if you get the odd complaint, it’s better than a sloth.
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You mention his previous jobs were time watching jobs, paid by the hour to watch time and bog off home once his time was up. You're paying him just above the minimum wage to work at a steady plod along pace, there's your answer, .....no real incentive to step up a few gears and get his performance up and crack on with earning more with little reward for twice as much or more effort than previous jobs. The youth of today in general are lazy and not motivated.
If you explained how he could earn £15-20 an hour and left him to find his own motivation, if he was money motivated I bet he would put some real effort in. Before window cleaning a couple of my jobs were basic pay and I negotiated performance related pay with my employers and was taking home more than double and tripple most of my friends for the same amount of hours by finding the best methods that benefited me of working, so long as the outcome was in the favour of my employers.
He can earn more on top of the basic hourly rate if we hit numbers so the incentive is there.
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From what you have posted he's the wrong lad.
From what you have posted you're the wrong boss too.
There are many good fellas out there, it just takes a good boss to get the best out of them, or at least dramatically improve the odds.
Good luck you will get there eventually if you keep trying and learning.
How am I the wrong boss? Genuine question.
I've been very patient with him, showed him what to do numerous times, never lost my rag or had a go at him. I've been fair to him, he can earn well. Im not sure what else I can do. I'm fairly new at being a boss but I don't think im massively screwing it up. Always looking to improve tho, thats the only reason Im on this forum.
This employing thing isnt easy, I employ 12 staff and Ive made all sorts of mistakes and my attitude has changed dramatically over time as I learnt about how to employ people.
Your previous posts suggest to me that you are too eager to please, its tough, its all about balance. There have to be rules, sometimes you need to explain why. You need to be tough when toughness is called for and empathetic when empathy is needed. Your staff must respect you, you have to earn that respect by your actions and it takes time. All this is easier if you have the right people to begin with.
Who are the right people? Thats really down to you to work out as you gain experience of people and life, but you have to try a few before you get the right ones. If you know they arent the right person get rid asap and move onto the next one. You will find the right one if you know what personality traits you are looking for AND you treat them right.
I have seen a couple of posts (from others) along the lines of " Its a job any idiot can do. or its just squirting water onto glass" if that your attitude to the people you want then thats what you are going to get (general statement not aimed at you Jay).
Its a complicated subject with many many variables, people want structure and leadership from someone they respect and who respects them. If you respect your employee and arent getting that respect back, get rid. Employing a window cleaner who cant drive wasnt a great move IMO, but you were in a rush to employ (which has made your situation worse.
I wish you well Jay.
Good post, thanks.
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I don't think £9 is enough - its ok for a trial period
Min Wage is going up in April to £9.50 - bear that in mind for keeping or dumping
Darran
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With minimum wage going up to 9.50 that's best part of 20k for a full timer.
With n.i and pension etc on top it's probably 25k a year to employ someone
Given that vat is 85k is it really worth it ?
May as well just do 60 k on your own and save the hassle.
Obviously different if you want someone put on their own and plan to expand beyond vat .
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Pennies are dropping employees hold all the cards
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I don't think £9 is enough - its ok for a trial period
Min Wage is going up in April to £9.50 - bear that in mind for keeping or dumping
Darran
I would up it to the £9.50.
He's only 21. I don't think its bad money when you can earn more based on performance + canvassing.
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With minimum wage going up to 9.50 that's best part of 20k for a full timer.
With n.i and pension etc on top it's probably 25k a year to employ someone
Given that vat is 85k is it really worth it ?
May as well just do 60 k on your own and save the hassle.
Obviously different if you want someone put on their own and plan to expand beyond vat .
When you say 60k you talking about earnings for a one man operation?
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With minimum wage going up to 9.50 that's best part of 20k for a full timer.
With n.i and pension etc on top it's probably 25k a year to employ someone
Given that vat is 85k is it really worth it ?
May as well just do 60 k on your own and save the hassle.
Obviously different if you want someone put on their own and plan to expand beyond vat .
When you say 60k you talking about earnings for a one man operation?
Yep
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With minimum wage going up to 9.50 that's best part of 20k for a full timer.
With n.i and pension etc on top it's probably 25k a year to employ someone
Given that vat is 85k is it really worth it ?
May as well just do 60 k on your own and save the hassle.
Obviously different if you want someone put on their own and plan to expand beyond vat .
On that wage Employers NI would be covered by the government for one, possibly two employees. Government give you the first £4000 or so a year.
Employees Tax & NI would come out of employees gross wages so no loss there either.
On around 20k a year, if the employee opted into the pension scheme, it would cost you around £40-£45 a month.
So I would say it is worth it. Works for me anyway.
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Have now read entire thread. Zzz.
The fact he can’t drive at 21 tells me everything about him.
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With minimum wage going up to 9.50 that's best part of 20k for a full timer.
With n.i and pension etc on top it's probably 25k a year to employ someone
Given that vat is 85k is it really worth it ?
May as well just do 60 k on your own and save the hassle.
Obviously different if you want someone put on their own and plan to expand beyond vat .
On that wage Employers NI would be covered by the government for one, possibly two employees. Government give you the first £4000 or so a year.
Employees Tax & NI would come out of employees gross wages so no loss there either.
On around 20k a year, if the employee opted into the pension scheme, it would cost you around £40-£45 a month.
So I would say it is worth it. Works for me anyway.
I've always paid employers ni at 13.8% I have to pay it on my own salary as a director lol
Still costs aren't really worth it unless they are out in their own. There the extra fuel, water and equipment costs etc as well as paying them for bad weather days.
I think if I was to employ again I would try to do it in 3 days a week with a pert timer. 600 a day probably have to work later though :(
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I don't think £9 is enough - its ok for a trial period
Min Wage is going up in April to £9.50 - bear that in mind for keeping or dumping
Darran
I would up it to the £9.50.
He's only 21. I don't think its bad money when you can earn more based on performance + canvassing.
you want him to clean and canvass all for min wage - there's the problem - if you expect him to canvas and get you work then you should be paying more - I think your asking a lot for that amount per hour
Darran
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I don't think £9 is enough - its ok for a trial period
Min Wage is going up in April to £9.50 - bear that in mind for keeping or dumping
Darran
I would up it to the £9.50.
He's only 21. I don't think its bad money when you can earn more based on performance + canvassing.
you want him to clean and canvass all for min wage - there's the problem - if you expect him to canvas and get you work then you should be paying more - I think your asking a lot for that amount per hour
Darran
I am paying him more on top off his minimum wage if we do more work which should easily be possible each day. He also gets paid 50% of the first clean for any job he canvasses.
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Wow! - so may have to canvas a few hours to get a customer and earn a whole £10 extra!
I would if I were you just put yourself in his shoes and do you really think what your offering is fair?
I don't get any of my staff to canvas it's totally different mind set and skills to cleaning - if you get someone who is willing to do both/good at both you need to be paying nearly double your current level and certainly for canvas work they get 100% of first clean minimum and more likely the first 2 with 50% of the third
Darran
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Taking on staff should be part of a long term strategy if your intention is to grow your business. From my own experience every time I took on a staff member my nett earnings fell. That's just a cost of expansion, but as the business grows and revenues increase then that new member of staff pays for themselves.
Dont expect to take on staff and have them pay for themselves within a week or two, it takes time. As your business gains momentum then the time it takes gets shorter. Your 2nd member of staff should pay back slightly quicker.
Jay you have unrealistic expectations at the moment, think more long term, if your finances cant stand it then you have taken on staff without enough cash reserves. or growing customer base. Its not easy this employing and expansion malarkey