Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: jonboywalton75 on June 10, 2020, 10:44:49 am
-
I've always worked without a controller but i was getting fed up with pressure switches burning out.
Other than protecting the PS what other benefits will i see.
And any tips on using the spring controller I've just bought from GPS
-
It’ll use less amps out of your battery making the battery last longer.
-
It will keep your chosen flow rate consistent regardless of the height of your pole. You will also have total and precise control of the pressure too.
As Simon said, you will use far less battery power. I run all day direct from the van battery and always have done.
-
If you are having problems with burning out pressure switches and don’t want to use a controller or prefer to work with a simple PWM controller that doesn’t have the CAL feature, you can wire in a 40 amp auto relay to feed power to the pump instead.
Just done this for my daughter’s trolley and it cost me all of £12 for the controller and 100x68x50mm box to put it in, and £4 for the relay and Fuse holder.
After I did this for my first trolley I’ve used it for nearly three years with no issues. I was burning through micro switches at a silly rate prior to that.
The principal is that you separate the pressure switch from the motor circuit and use it instead to power the relay which only uses milliamps instead of the several amps it takes to power the pump. You then route the power to the pump through the other side of the relay which can easily handle the pump load.
If anyone’s interested I’ll re-post the wiring diagram I originally used plus a couple of additions showing where I fitted connectors (I used Wago connectors as they are reusable)
-
I like a high flow and the first thing I have noticed is that i cant get as good a flow as before with the setting on 99 ???
-
Not sure if it's the same with all controllers but I've had five and regularly use three and they've all been the same. I first noticed this when testing one years back and recently noticed it again when setting up my daughter's trolley.
-
I like a high flow and the first thing I have noticed is that i cant get as good a flow as before with the setting on 99 ???
how old is your pump?i had my controller set on 50 today and it was easily high enough,really good strong flow!it was gushing out of the jets!...i normally have it on 40-45 and its still good for splashing and dashing......
-
I like a high flow and the first thing I have noticed is that i cant get as good a flow as before with the setting on 99 ???
Are you sure the pump isn't cutting out due to pressure value being set too low?
-
I like a high flow and the first thing I have noticed is that i cant get as good a flow as before with the setting on 99 ???
Are you sure the pump isn't cutting out due to pressure value being set too low?
The pump isn't cutting out, its a steady flow
-
I like a high flow and the first thing I have noticed is that i cant get as good a flow as before with the setting on 99 ???
how old is your pump?i had my controller set on 50 today and it was easily high enough,really good strong flow!it was gushing out of the jets!...i normally have it on 40-45 and its still good for splashing and dashing......
Its a new pump
Does the cal value change the flow?
-
I like a high flow and the first thing I have noticed is that i cant get as good a flow as before with the setting on 99 ???
how old is your pump?i had my controller set on 50 today and it was easily high enough,really good strong flow!it was gushing out of the jets!...i normally have it on 40-45 and its still good for splashing and dashing......
Its a new pump
Does the cal value change the flow?
i have my CAL on 25 but i use hot water so this is fine for me....id set your CAL higher mate......this will have an effect on your flow for sure....
-
It`ll save your battery and wear on your pump.
I dont like them really ive always used no controller, you get a much better flow without and a nice jet wash effect letting the pressure build up.
But when i started working 2 man i had to get some as i was destroying batterys.
-
Analogue version is so much easier to use ;)
-
I like a high flow and the first thing I have noticed is that i cant get as good a flow as before with the setting on 99 ???
Are you sure the pump isn't cutting out due to pressure value being set too low?
The pump isn't cutting out, its a steady flow
[/quote}
The calibration value allows the pump to know when to switch the pump as the pole valve is closed, The higher the calibration value the longer it will take the controller to stop the pump ( Dead end) however even at a high calibration this would still be well before the pump pressure switch activates. Cal value does not have a direct impact on pressure during open flow. When your calibrating the controller to your system a suggestion is to run Cal at the flow rate your going to use the most. The controler can be calibrated at any flow rate ( We just use 30 in the guide to give a common start point)
Pressure in the system is generated by the pump, Hoses and Brush jets. Please see the following link http://springltd.co/blog/84/flow-resistance-and-volume
Water volume at the brush head may appear to be different, But Im guessing the pump is a 5.2 LPM. The litre per minute rate is measured at the pump outlet with no restriction, Once a hose is connected to the outlet we introduce a restriction because the hose has a finite capacity in the amount of water it can carry. Once the hose reaches this capacity it does not matter how much more the pump tries to push in flow volume will not be increased. This is because the hose wall resistance creates a restriction to a point where water velocity increases But the flow volume and pressure both fall. Turning the flow rate back a little can counter intuitively improve water volume and pressure because there is less resistance from the hose
A suggestion would be to measure the flow rate at the brush and you will likely find little difference in volume at the brush with the flow rate set to around 65 - 80 and 99. This will be due to the hose reaching its maximum capacity at 65-80 give or take a bit.
Other benefits of a controller beyond protecting the pressure switch, would be that the pump runs cooler so less load on the motor. This is achieved because the controller returns any unused current back to the battery rather than this unused current heating the pump. Current draw of the pump will be lower even run hard amp draw will be 2 -3 amps less than with no controller.
The controller has Over current protection so if the pump suddenly draws high current due to a wire fault it will shut the pump down rather than the short heating to a point where cables are red hot. The controller also carries out an electrical test on the circuit and in the event of a fault condition will shut down the pump. The controller has a volt meter to monitor the battery. The volt meter can be a useful diagnostic tool.
-
“Turning the flow rate back a little can counter intuitively improve water volume and pressure because there is less resistance from the hose”
Interesting that, because I thought it was just me. There’s an optimum position and it’s not flat out, not with microbore anyway.
-
I like a high flow and the first thing I have noticed is that i cant get as good a flow as before with the setting on 99 ???
Are you sure the pump isn't cutting out due to pressure value being set too low?
The pump isn't cutting out, its a steady flow
[/quote}
The calibration value allows the pump to know when to switch the pump as the pole valve is closed, The higher the calibration value the longer it will take the controller to stop the pump ( Dead end) however even at a high calibration this would still be well before the pump pressure switch activates. Cal value does not have a direct impact on pressure during open flow. When your calibrating the controller to your system a suggestion is to run Cal at the flow rate your going to use the most. The controler can be calibrated at any flow rate ( We just use 30 in the guide to give a common start point)
Pressure in the system is generated by the pump, Hoses and Brush jets. Please see the following link http://springltd.co/blog/84/flow-resistance-and-volume
Water volume at the brush head may appear to be different, But Im guessing the pump is a 5.2 LPM. The litre per minute rate is measured at the pump outlet with no restriction, Once a hose is connected to the outlet we introduce a restriction because the hose has a finite capacity in the amount of water it can carry. Once the hose reaches this capacity it does not matter how much more the pump tries to push in flow volume will not be increased. This is because the hose wall resistance creates a restriction to a point where water velocity increases But the flow volume and pressure both fall. Turning the flow rate back a little can counter intuitively improve water volume and pressure because there is less resistance from the hose
A suggestion would be to measure the flow rate at the brush and you will likely find little difference in volume at the brush with the flow rate set to around 65 - 80 and 99. This will be due to the hose reaching its maximum capacity at 65-80 give or take a bit.
Other benefits of a controller beyond protecting the pressure switch, would be that the pump runs cooler so less load on the motor. This is achieved because the controller returns any unused current back to the battery rather than this unused current heating the pump. Current draw of the pump will be lower even run hard amp draw will be 2 -3 amps less than with no controller.
The controller has Over current protection so if the pump suddenly draws high current due to a wire fault it will shut the pump down rather than the short heating to a point where cables are red hot. The controller also carries out an electrical test on the circuit and in the event of a fault condition will shut down the pump. The controller has a volt meter to monitor the battery. The volt meter can be a useful diagnostic tool.
Thanks for the reply Ian
I'll try your suggestions
Cheers
-
Set my cal to 70, now flow is top notch
-
Set my cal to 70, now flow is top notch
glad its working fine for you now jon...... :)
-
Yeah beginning to realise i should have used a controller all these past years.
Anyway, how are you doing Daz?
-
I didnt use a controller for years, I bought some about a year ago but I always used them on cal 99 and flow 99. Any less and it seemed pointless as the flow wasnt great.
Anyway It must have been the setup in my van that was causing a poor flow, either pumps were past it or they were too high because I got a new pump at the weekend and installed the controller in my truck and it was much better.
Yesterday I used the settings for pretty much the first time ever, mainly because I was running out of water having a smaller tank. The cal function I found particularly useful because turning it down there was no pressure washer effect on opening the univalve. I managed to make my 500l tank last all day, im convinced I would have run out using my normal full whack approach. Also I got back with my batt voltage reading 12.5v. Usually the battery is down in the 11s or even 10s after a hard day with no controller. Probably why I went through 1 or 2 battery's a year. I'll be sticking with a controller form now on.
-
Without trying to sound condescending.... once you fully understand how use and calibrate a controller properly to your individual system, they are priceless IMO.
My system is leak free, never required protektacote in any van and never get connectors popping off. It's fully fitted with Hozelock type connectors and barbed joints. All the barbed joints are only retained by plastic cable ties with no jubilee clips.👍
-
Yeah beginning to realise i should have used a controller all these past years.
Anyway, how are you doing Daz?
Hi Jon I'm fine pal....ticking over nicely in a work sense.....missing the gym and my bandmates though.....I've ordered a new roland electronic drum kit to keep me sane and my drumming up to scratch......I think we ll be doing a lot of charity gigs when all this is over!
-
Retail therapy always good
You've set my mind thinking ;D
-
Has anyone used different brands and found a particular one the best? I am sick of the things burning out/packing in and getting no help from the supplier with repair or even suggestions to where to get them repaired!!! Failing that,can anyone suggest parts etc how to make your own,including the voltage protection device.
Thanks.
-
Without trying to sound condescending.... once you fully understand how use and calibrate a controller properly to your individual system, they are priceless IMO.
My system is leak free, never required protektacote in any van and never get connectors popping off. It's fully fitted with Hozelock type connectors and barbed joints. All the barbed joints are only retained by plastic cable ties with no jubilee clips.👍
I can see the benefits of the calibration now, I never used to like the cal function as I preferred having instant full whack when I pulled the univalve. With the cal set it takes a few seconds for the pressure to work back up. But like you say, I got leaks galore, blowing fittings weekly, water all over the van lol. Now I have the cal set in my truck I haven't seen a drop of water in the back. The van used to p water out of the sides every day lol.
-
Without trying to sound condescending.... once you fully understand how use and calibrate a controller properly to your individual system, they are priceless IMO.
My system is leak free, never required protektacote in any van and never get connectors popping off. It's fully fitted with Hozelock type connectors and barbed joints. All the barbed joints are only retained by plastic cable ties with no jubilee clips.👍
I can see the benefits of the calibration now, I never used to like the cal function as I preferred having instant full whack when I pulled the univalve. With the cal set it takes a few seconds for the pressure to work back up. But like you say, I got leaks galore, blowing fittings weekly, water all over the van lol. Now I have the cal set in my truck I haven't seen a drop of water in the back. The van used to p water out of the sides every day lol.
With a bit of practice, trial & error, you'll be able to set it to perfection and even get rid of that slight delay.👍
All you have to do then is adjust it slightly for hot and cold weather- usually just 1 or 2 values either way of your optimum to compensate.
-
Spring provide a two year return to base manufacturers warranty on their controllers, and will often inspect controllers for free then advise on next steps before doing anything else.
Support is provided by the distributors and Spring very often through these and other social media pages. Controllers are designed in house and we manufacture in the UK. The forums are also a way for us to gain feedback which is reflected back into the controllers.
-
Where do I find this product? Have looked but cant see a price!!
-
Where do I find this product? Have looked but cant see a price!!
The window cleaner suppliers and stockist have these in stock. If you look at the supplier web site you would get other supplies from.
-
Do you mean that Spring supply these to other suppliers? If so can you tell me who they are?
Steve.
-
Further to my previous question I notice that a "supplier" has very similar controllers to the spring brand. If I send my controllers to spring would they look at them for me?
-
Spring make them all. They just get rebadged for the suppliers.
-
Further to my previous question I notice that a "supplier" has very similar controllers to the spring brand. If I send my controllers to spring would they look at them for me?
Yes we are happy to take a look at your controllers, The V11 have distributor branding.
Can I ask does the controller have any messages showing on the display ? Aprrox how old is it and waht rating fuse was fittted
If it needs to come back Please send them to Spring (Europe) ltd Unit 9 April Court, Sybron way, Crowborough TN6 3DZ. Please include contact information and a return address
-
Has anyone used different brands and found a particular one the best? I am sick of the things burning out/packing in and getting no help from the supplier with repair or even suggestions to where to get them repaired!!! Failing that,can anyone suggest parts etc how to make your own,including the voltage protection device.
Thanks.
how the hell are you burning them out/killing them?....ive always found the digital controllers really reliable...ive had my current liquid logic controller for 2 and a half years now no problems..i know some window cleaners who ve had them for many years,again with no problems.....
-
Has anyone used different brands and found a particular one the best? I am sick of the things burning out/packing in and getting no help from the supplier with repair or even suggestions to where to get them repaired!!! Failing that,can anyone suggest parts etc how to make your own,including the voltage protection device.
Thanks.
how the hell are you burning them out/killing them?....ive always found the digital controllers really reliable...ive had my current liquid logic controller for 2 and a half years now no problems..i know some window cleaners who ve had them for many years,again with no problems.....
When your batteries are fixed and your controllers in a dry area then you should have no issues.
The trouble starts when you have to remove the battery for charging. Murphy's law says that if you are dyslexic like I am you are going to get the battery terminals mixed up sooner or later. Reversing polarity blows controllers.
Like you I plug my battery charger in over night to supplementary charge my leisure battery and van battery at the same time. There is no way I can make a mistake and damage my controllers.