Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: nathankaye on May 31, 2017, 04:03:07 pm
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I did windows for 2 or 3 years and then in 2003 got back into it and set up my business. I was fortunate and grew my business quite fast to the point where i was working most saturdays as well as usual mon-fri. Pending how the weather was i would even work the odd sundays. After a number of years i managed to get rid of some dross and even took on an employee once a week and gained my wkends back. However like most, i would still work bank holidays and only have xmass day/ boxing day off work etc.
Also a week of rain would hinder my routine and so on n so on.
My employee moved on and built his own rounds up with my help (after many years hes now moved on and ive claimed that work), but i was more than self sufficient and helped a number of lads over the years train n start up etc.
Point is, i worked hard and hard for many years but to say i was self employed I hardly enjoyed my own time as I didnt get much time off etc.
Now switching to wfp, 2yrs ago. I now have 2 wks of for xmass and all bank holidays off. Even enjoying a break at tobys carverys pending where im working. Ive just enjoyed a long wknd off, worked tuesday n half day today and now have rest of the week off. Thats even with bunking off last week on the hot day i posted about.
Im not singing my own praises, but I am highlighting all this time off because after all these years my work has paid off but mostly due to switching onto wfp. So im posting another reason why all the trad guys (who like me at one time used to hate the idea of wfp) should seriously consider the positives rather than listen to all the negative tales.
When i was trad, loads of work came my way from people doing a rubbish job on wfp. But also loads of work came my way due to rubbish trad cleaners as well!!
Just saying there's loads of positive reasons to upgrade boys n girls
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Still 3-4 near me laddering stuff it's crazy to me almost like Chinese torture it must be when we pull up at similar jobs and I'm gone after 45 mins while there still there 1-30 hours later
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Leave them to it. We all know wfp is faster and easier and hence can earn more wedge. If die hard traders can't see that then who cares keep risking your life up ladders.
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Same old wfp v traditional twaddle, cant get away from the fact that wfp is safer but both methods have their pros and conns.
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a local windy who works my area too has recently switched over to wfp in the last year or so and i had another one of his customers not happy with his work today.that makes it 4 new extra customers for me in the last month .ive even told him what the problem is(he s scrimping on water using barrels/trolley system,low flow) but he never listens.
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Same old wfp v traditional twaddle, cant get away from the fact that wfp is safer but both methods have their pros and conns.
Correct.
But a Toby Carvery is one of the main pros of going wfp.
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I use PF trolley and 25ltr barrels but work with my flow at max. Have done for ten years. I've tried the low flow to save water route but quickly found it doesn't work. At least for me anyhow.
Funnily enough, I took on a customer today who has just jacked in a guy with a van because he did a terrible job, and she is not the first.
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Couple young guys our way set up last year as trad only, which for me it's each to there own and there working hard
But today I carught sight of him cleaning 2nd floor dormer window whilst his friend pushed ladder against gutters, no lie he was six rings up above gutter standing on top rung with foot on window ledge
Just one false step, to me can't see the need to do that now, WFP available to all now at affordable cost
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I HATE ladders, or more specificaly going up them!
If it wasnt for wfp l wouldnt be doing half the work l have.
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ive bin a wc for 15 years and still do a bit of ladder work, on some jobs its quicker and easer using a ladder , most of my work is wfp tho
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I would have never considered being a windy if it wasnt for wfp, not chance i would be clambering up ladders, it looks chavvy as hell for a start, wfp looks so much more professional.
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ive bin a wc for 15 years and still do a bit of ladder work, on some jobs its quicker and easer using a ladder , most of my work is wfp tho
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Yes some jobs (not many) are much easier to blade, but only ground floor for me!
Well easier to extend a pole than a ladder.
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I use PF trolley and 25ltr barrels but work with my flow at max. Have done for ten years. I've tried the low flow to save water route but quickly found it doesn't work. At least for me anyhow.
Funnily enough, I took on a customer today who has just jacked in a guy with a van because he did a terrible job, and she is not the first.
This is why its always operator fault not the tools. The customers i had gained on trad work from other wfp chaps we're a little concerned when i told them i was upgrading and i resolved their issues by explaining that.
Its funny how on trad work its the user who gets blamed for bad jobs. But on WFP it seems to be the equipment that takes the rap ::)roll
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Three today tradding on a main road.....all three doing front of 3 bed semi....totally inefficient.
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Same old wfp v traditional twaddle, cant get away from the fact that wfp is safer but both methods have their pros and conns.
Correct.
But a Toby Carvery is one of the main pros of going wfp.
I was wondering the importance of that too.
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Gotta say I enjoy a little trad work here n there but I don't do much. Most days I don't do any. Today I bladed two double sets of patio doors. One set due to dog nose marks all over them and the other, greasy hand prints due to nippers being off school.
There are also guys round my way that work in two's and three's both tradding and poling. I tried working with someone years ago but just found it so inefficient. A lot of time wasting going on without realising it. I much prefer working on my own.
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One of the reasons trad guys don`t change is. The limited amount they earn and have to save cash for what is seems like a very large outlay to change to WFP. Why leave something making enough to spend on equipment and the don't know how much more they can make. It's the position of being comfortable.
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Thats the position I was in, but you need to exert yourself and believe the hype about WFP. I remember seeing my first Pure Freedom trolley and then hearing the price - £1,000!!!! FECK THAT.
But somehow I was brought round to believing in it and for me the rest is history.
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One of the reasons trad guys don`t change is. The limited amount they earn and have to save cash for what is seems like a very large outlay to change to WFP. Why leave something making enough to spend on equipment and the don't know how much more they can make. It's the position of being comfortable.
Spot on that's the reason.
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They are non believers let's be honest if someone said you can triple what your doing and still have the energy to go out at the weekend most of us would think yeah right oh pal.
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One of the reasons trad guys don`t change is. The limited amount they earn and have to save cash for what is seems like a very large outlay to change to WFP. Why leave something making enough to spend on equipment and the don't know how much more they can make. It's the position of being comfortable.
Spot on that's the reason.
Or maybe they're making too much money too start faffing about with a method that reduces quality control and can be
problematic with many types of window frame depending on their design and condition.
Yes a cheap low quality shiner isn't going to have anything to lose by knocking out extra properties a day thus upping the earnings but somebody who sells on quality at a price might think twice.
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You think cheap low quality window cleaners are capable of evaluating in that manner? That's a contradiction in terms in reality.
Cheap low quality window cleaners I seen are monkeys that are spaced out on cannabis for most of the day.
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One of the reasons trad guys don`t change is. The limited amount they earn and have to save cash for what is seems like a very large outlay to change to WFP. Why leave something making enough to spend on equipment and the don't know how much more they can make. It's the position of being comfortable.
Spot on that's the reason.
Or maybe they're making too much money too start faffing about with a method that reduces quality control and can be
problematic with many types of window frame depending on their design and condition.
Yes a cheap low quality shiner isn't going to have anything to lose by knocking out extra properties a day thus upping the earnings but somebody who sells on quality at a price might think twice.
So in essence saying all us chaps on wfp making good money from it are doing so at the expense of quality.
The trad guys shouldnt believe all the negative tales from customers reverting back to trad cleaners by blaming the wfp equipment.
I now have customers asking to go 8wkly because their windows are so clean (hence good quality) which i dont mind as im picking up that much work from traditional cleaners doing bad jobs or skipping windows // frames etc or they want all their windows to be cleaned not just ones reached from a ladder!!
If any company wants to expand they have to jump out their comfort zone of ladder n mops etc and excert themselves, relearn and improve their business and income.
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You think cheap low quality window cleaners are capable of evaluating in that manner? That's a contradiction in terms in reality.
Cheap low quality window cleaners I seen are monkeys that are spaced out on cannabis for most of the day.
I would class the above as people who use window cleaning as a way of funding their addictions who's only interest is their next fix, for me cheap low quality cleaners are guys who need to knock out quantity in order to make a wage, not saying there's anything wrong with that as there are many ways to make it in this game.
You cant argue with the safety aspect but if I had a well paying traditional round achieved by a reputation for quality I would certainly think long and hard before changing over to wfp and in my opinion that reason would be more a factor in why a lot of shiners don't convert rather than they cant afford it or are too stupid to see the earning potential.
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One of the reasons trad guys don`t change is. The limited amount they earn and have to save cash for what is seems like a very large outlay to change to WFP. Why leave something making enough to spend on equipment and the don't know how much more they can make. It's the position of being comfortable.
Spot on that's the reason.
Or maybe they're making too much money too start faffing about with a method that reduces quality control and can be
problematic with many types of window frame depending on their design and condition.
Yes a cheap low quality shiner isn't going to have anything to lose by knocking out extra properties a day thus upping the earnings but somebody who sells on quality at a price might think twice.
So in essence saying all us chaps on wfp making good money from it are doing so at the expense of quality.
The trad guys shouldnt believe all the negative tales from customers reverting back to trad cleaners by blaming the wfp equipment.
I now have customers asking to go 8wkly because their windows are so clean (hence good quality) which i dont mind as im picking up that much work from traditional cleaners doing bad jobs or skipping windows // frames etc or they want all their windows to be cleaned not just ones reached from a ladder!!
If any company wants to expand they have to jump out their comfort zone of ladder n mops etc and excert themselves, relearn and improve their business and income.
Not tying to be rude Nathan but if your knocking out 30 to 35 properties a day on a few hundred litres of water then quality
isn't your main priority.
Windows don't stay cleaner any longer because of wfp so if your customers are asking to go 8 weekly its not because their window are staying cleaner longer its because they are looking to save money or aren't that fussy.
Iv always been wfp but Im surrounded by quality traditional guys and I can fully understand why they wouldn't want to change
over.
So to answer your question I'm not saying all wfp guys are making good money at the expense of quality I'm just saying some are.
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Just to clarify, its 500l tank of pure and yes pure water cleaning does help the windows to stay cleaner for longer. Thats what i have found to be the case along with the technical understanding of removing the soapy residue left from traditional cleaning. I even made this point with one of my customers by wfp one downstairs window and blading the other downstair window on the same facing wall. Four weeks later one window was clearly cleaner than the other.
Just because ive been able to knock out 30 or more houses in a day doesnt mean quality suffers and certainly not done on a slow flow or there would be no chance of getting that many houses cleaned in a day.
Its all about technique, type of windows being cleaned and size of houses etc.
Or in comparison to trad working. You could mop a window, put mop back into bucket on belt. Then take out the squeegee and blade the window and put away. Take out the scrim n detail the window and finally wet wag and wipe the sill. OR mop n blade in each hand and mop n blade at the same time. Put away n take both cloths out n detail n wipe sill n put away. Pending how you work and the technique employed one is more productive than the other but you wouldnt say quality suffers on either.
But thats just a side point
Before i switched over i couldnt understand why anybody would want to use wfp because surely it cant clean as good as being close to the window. I also liked it when some new chaps tried coming into my areas with new fancy van setups on wfp because i knew i would end up with a good portion of their work. Yep, it actually meant more work for me, no Bull!!
It was only because a friend i helped switched on to it that i had no choice but to use it. After 2 or 3 months i was hooked and wanted to invest in it myself and ive not looked back since. Realising that i had taken other peoples work because of user error and not directly the equipment fault. So soon realising that all the negative hype about wfp was a load of rubbish
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Nathan windows are dirtied by what's being put on them either by people, animals or what's in the air or in rain, a bird will poo on a window no matter what method is used the same goes for a dust laden shower of rain dirtying the glass.
This old the windows stay cleaner longer nonsense was just put around in the early days to help sell the equipment.
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Like the crap some of the muppets believe about Vision.
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I remember reading a webpage a few years back where some muppet was offering a three month guarantee on the clean
as he honestly believed windows cleaned with pure didn't get dirty, you couldn't make it up.
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Gotta say I enjoy a little trad work here n there but I don't do much. Most days I don't do any. Today I bladed two double sets of patio doors. One set due to dog nose marks all over them and the other, greasy hand prints due to nippers being off school.
There are also guys round my way that work in two's and three's both tradding and poling. I tried working with someone years ago but just found it so inefficient. A lot of time wasting going on without realising it. I much prefer working on my own.
+1
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You think cheap low quality window cleaners are capable of evaluating in that manner? That's a contradiction in terms in reality.
Cheap low quality window cleaners I seen are monkeys that are spaced out on cannabis for most of the day.
Lad near me like that
I clean some on his patch ;D
He doesn't start till 3 in the afternoon though, so he doesn't even know I'm around
Thick as pig ****
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All i know, is all the many years doing trad work it was clear to see that by the time i was due back the windows were needing to be cleaned. Now on wfp, im cleaning virtually clean windows every 4wks.
Obviously bird poop n sand storms etc are something all together seperate. But day to day the windows virtually stay cleaner for longer. Obviously the windows dont have a coating of soap residue for one as they do when trad cleaning. So trad windows are not fully clean as wfp windows are, hence we can clean in yhe rain. Rain water unless its a sand storm as such, most rain water ive collected has been around 003 004. I clean windows with water upto and above 010.
So for me i tell my customers that their windows will virtually stay clean for the next 4 wks unless the obvious bird poop etc. Thats just common sense.
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I am using more water at the moment in this hotter weather anyone with
300ltr must be struggling on a high rinse normally,as for traditional WCs i don't know how they keep going when the world and his wife has a pole system these days. It's a bit like using an open fire to boil water for a cup of coffee when everyone else is using a kettle,sooner or later surely you are gonna see the kettle is quicker and more efficient. I believe a lot of them are plain idle enough to tick over till 12 and that'll do why else would you even want to climb up and down a ladder everyday,I reckon in my time I've climbed to the moon and back sod doing it anymore.
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All i know, is all the many years doing trad work it was clear to see that by the time i was due back the windows were needing to be cleaned. Now on wfp, im cleaning virtually clean windows every 4wks.
Obviously bird poop n sand storms etc are something all together seperate. But day to day the windows virtually stay cleaner for longer. Obviously the windows dont have a coating of soap residue for one as they do when trad cleaning. So trad windows are not fully clean as wfp windows are, hence we can clean in yhe rain. Rain water unless its a sand storm as such, most rain water ive collected has been around 003 004. I clean windows with water upto and above 010.
So for me i tell my customers that their windows will virtually stay clean for the next 4 wks unless the obvious bird poop etc. Thats just common sense.
Get a parts per billion system Nathan, you will only need to clean them once a year. lol.
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Haha
Im sure all the chaps who are 4wkly eould agree with me that they are cleaning virtually clean windows. This being due to the pure water and nature of the way its cleaned compared to trad methods with soap, mop n squeegee. Ive spent many a yrs on mop n squeegee to know the difference in my customers windows.
Its glorious weather at mo to be working in, though im glad i finished my work this week in a day n half so i can just enjoy the weather ☺ but dowside of working in it is if like me, carrying 500 ltrs of water but non of it suitable for drinking 😂
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I was cleaning the other day and spoke to a neighbour, she has a couple of tradders doing her place. I've spoken to them and they seem ok. They haven't been for a while...apparently one of them was up a ladder and came off it when it was hit by a mobility scooter! It's ok though, I know exactly which houses in the cul de sac they clean ;D
Seriously though, if it's true I hope the guy is ok.
I'm still canvassing the houses though...
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My mate had his ladder in the gutter on the road.
His van was parked a few feet away to stop people hitting him
Unfortunately a lad smashed his van up and took him down as well
Broke his back
Off work for eight months
At my age that would have meant early retirement
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Haha
Im sure all the chaps who are 4wkly eould agree with me that they are cleaning virtually clean windows. This being due to the pure water and nature of the way its cleaned compared to trad methods with soap, mop n squeegee. Ive spent many a yrs on mop n squeegee to know the difference in my customers windows.
Its glorious weather at mo to be working in, though im glad i finished my work this week in a day n half so i can just enjoy the weather ☺ but dowside of working in it is if like me, carrying 500 ltrs of water but non of it suitable for drinking 😂
Could be because you're now cleaning the frames
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the windows on my round have been filthy this week and im mainly wfp.i am a week late but most work is 4 weekly.(so 5 weeks since last clean)covered in bird muck,dust and pollen.
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I also find that windows get far dirtier in long dry spring and summer spells than in winter. Can't say I've noticed whether they stay cleaner longer than when I was a trad ceaner, but have had a few customers say they appear to, without my prompting. It wasn't because they wanted to save money as they are still 4 weekly customers.
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the windows on my round have been filthy this week and im mainly wfp.i am a week late but most work is 4 weekly.(so 5 weeks since last clean)covered in bird muck,dust and pollen.
I second that one daz
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it looks like rain here in the north west today.would i be going out and working in it if i was still 100% trad on the ladders?i dont think so but with wfp its acceptable to most of my customers to work in the rain. :)
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Working in wet conditions on a ladder increases the risk of a fall dramatically. Almost all the slips I had on my ladders over the years were when it was wet. The worst fall I had from them was following a short sharp shower on a beautiful summer's day. The ladders didn't slip either, it was my feet on the wet rungs. Now I seldom need to work in those conditions anaway, but when I do my feet are planted firmly on the floor.
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horrible wet afternoon here but all work completed.another £200+ day.not a chance id of worked in it on ladders.
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Ive had a great couple of days off (think i mentioned this in first post) but yep its been a wet day here as well. But if it wasnt a day off i certainly would have worked in it but no way if trad working, same as what youve all been saying.
So we checked forecast n took kids an hr away from us upto cleethorpes. Only as it was a last minute thing gone 1pm and its not a long drive. It was mostly dry there apart from a drizzle which didnt last overly long. So would have been a good day for people there working. Any on here work that area ???
I didnt see any signs of shiners working in area or village as i drove through some of the inland village. Haha, does anyone else do that or is it just me? Look out for any shiners when your out n about?