Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: NWH on October 22, 2015, 04:43:37 pm
-
I watched a 20 minute video on YouTube about the zero machine,it looked like there selling a so called PPB machine without the relevant TDS meter lol. In the video he said the meters are very expensive and didn't have one on him to demonstrate the TDS reading,listening to what he was saying all it does is re circulate the water back into the tank and back through the resin TBH,does anyone on here have one.
-
It's a load of rubbish if you ask me ;D
-
It's beyond me why someone would want to use water pure enough for food and drugs manufacture to clean windows.
-
Mrs Jenkins at number 28 is only concerned whether her windows are clean and whether I've cleaned the sills and the frames (yes, I get asked every time). I haven't asked her whether she's interested in PPB yet... but I think I can guess the answer.
I get the Ionics catalogues through every quarter, they must have spent ten of thousands on this technology and I don't understand how they are going to get a return on investment for this sort of thing ...
-
Back in the early days of wfp there where a lot of myths floating about concerning purified water, things like it cleaned better
than tap water and so on.
So maybe Ionics thought that purifying it even further would make it better still, personally I think it was just a advertising
gimmick.
-
Completely unnecessary to clean windows IMO. I see no need for high priced systems. The water from a DiY £1000 system is just as good as a £10000 one.
When I started I was so careful that I was working with 000 ppm I used to come on here and folk would say they changed their resin as soon as it hit 001.
Now I have realised that 010 is perfectly useable although I tend to change my resin somewhere between 006 and 008 usually. I have gone as high as 015 quite happily when I was too lazy to change the resin before the weekend.
So in parts per billion terms we are talking 1000 ppb = 1ppm and 10000ppb = 10ppm.
-
The system just looks like it returns water back to the tank and then back through filters,is there anything different about the filters etc
-
There a 3 pre filters
2 RO
Resin
once the water is in the tank its then pumped into nuclear resin that makes it parts per billion then back in the tank.
also comes with UV filter
I have one great system, expensive yes
Been using it for about a month the water does seem softer the brush moves across the glass easier
-
There a 3 pre filters
2 RO
Resin
once the water is in the tank its then pumped into nuclear resin that makes it parts per billion then back in the tank.
also comes with UV filter
I have one great system, expensive yes
Been using it for about a month the water does seem softer the brush moves across the glass easier
Best one this year so far!!! ;D
-
Martin how much did you pay please and what size tank
-
Hi got a 700 lt tank
expensive but as I have other systems from them I did get some off.
They get plenty of stick on hear but you should go down to their offices and have a look around they are selling plenty of systems
-
That is the biggest lot of bull I have ever heard. Even if I had the cash I would not buy the system try telling your customers about it they will laugh at all the spin. WE are window cleaners these chaps are just trying one on us window cleaners thinking we are dumb. I think there is a load of over engineered equipment already. All this nonsense about a simple window cleaning service. Its made to massage our egos. So we can say we have a parts per billion system. What do we think we are scientists? NO Window cleaners.
The reason they sell a lot of systems is proof how thick we are when we start off. They spin the B/S and we all want to be someone special. Web think you are great if we spend a fortune.
-
Been cleaning windows 34 years
Using water fed poles 15 years
-
Will it eradicate spotting/runs? I'm in if it does (where's the thumbs up thingy)
-
Will it eradicate spotting/runs? I'm in if it does (where's the thumbs up thingy)
It wont eradicate anything, we filter water to remove dissolved solids that would otherwise dry on the glass and be seen.
0 ppm more than does the job so trying to get it lower than that is just a waste of money.
-
Who much does nuclear resin cost?
-
Nuclear resin is £200 a bag lol
-
2 resin bottles of average size would be 2 fills or 3 fills for a say 18" vessel
-
It's no wonder he won't tell us how much his system cost!
-
Also they are very reluctant to tell you how often you need to change filters and if they do comment it's flitted over and quickly moved on to another subject,those cartridges hole hardly any resin compared to vessels and are nearly £100 each with vat and that's just for resin. They did a system a few years ago the name escapes me now but I need someone on a forum that had one and it was costing him an absolute fortune in filters,I think it was the model that had no reject water it circulated the waste but round through RO and filters again and again till it was pure and it spent the filters in a matter of weeks he said. That system I think was soon taken off of sale and it was over 10k I believe
-
I can see the logic of Martin and others wanting to use a better van mount purification system as most will know 0 ppm cold pure water on it's own does not work that well cleaning filthy glass no matter what some may think.
I'm sure on trying to win large commercial contracts and retainig them gives companies that run theses systems a very competitive edge over others too.
Companies who invest & run these types of systems I think are not as daft as you think they are far from it.
-
£10k?
They might have sold out ;D.
-
Also they are very reluctant to tell you how often you need to change filters and if they do comment it's flitted over and quickly moved on to another subject,those cartridges hole hardly any resin compared to vessels and are nearly £100 each with vat and that's just for resin. They did a system a few years ago the name escapes me now but I need someone on a forum that had one and it was costing him an absolute fortune in filters,I think it was the model that had no reject water it circulated the waste but round through RO and filters again and again till it was pure and it spent the filters in a matter of weeks he said. That system I think was soon taken off of sale and it was over 10k I believe
pro 7 I think it was called
-
Yeah pro 7
-
I can see the logic of Martin and others wanting to use a better van mount purification system as most will know 0 ppm cold pure water on it's own does not work that well cleaning filthy glass no matter what some may think.
I'm sure on trying to win large commercial contracts and retainig them gives companies that run theses systems a very competitive edge over others too.
Companies who invest & run these types of systems I think are not as daft as you think they are far from it.
Quite right. So spend £50 and put an immersion heater in your tank. Why over complicate things?
-
Or money no object why not just get yourself a ppb system with a hot water webasto heater built in instead...Sorted ;D
Why buy a lada when you can drive a bmw so to speak. They both have four wheels but would you drive a lada out of choice? ::)roll
-
There a 3 pre filters
2 RO
Resin
once the water is in the tank its then pumped into nuclear resin that makes it parts per billion then back in the tank.
also comes with UV filter
I have one great system, expensive yes
Been using it for about a month the water does seem softer the brush moves across the glass easier
Best one this year so far!!! ;D
+1
I hate to rude, but what a mug.
What's next from Ionic's just to get the dosh rolling in?
We've had Unger with their pointless expensive resin container which sold well.
Ninja... aircraft grade aluminium for cleaning windows?
Don't some people get it?
-
I can understand him buying one if he could afford and liked it, he is a past customer.
What I can't understand is owning up to it on here!
Tony
-
I can see the logic of Martin and others wanting to use a better van mount purification system as most will know 0 ppm cold pure water on it's own does not work that well cleaning filthy glass no matter what some may think.
I'm sure on trying to win large commercial contracts and retainig them gives companies that run theses systems a very competitive edge over others too.
Companies who invest & run these types of systems I think are not as daft as you think they are far from it.
This post has to be a wind up. ;D
-
I might buy one to keep my tax bill down 8)
-
Now I have realised that 010 is perfectly useable although I tend to change my resin somewhere between 006 and 008 usually. I have gone as high as 015 quite happily when I was too lazy to change the resin before the weekend.
+1
Ionics target mentally challenged window cleaners who have more credit than sense.
-
Or money no object why not just get yourself a ppb system with a hot water webasto heater built in instead...Sorted ;D
Why buy a lada when you can drive a bmw so to speak. They both have four wheels but would you drive a lada out of choice? ::)roll
For pleasure. If you want to gold-plate your van and put wide wheels on it and make sure it's a top range transporter because "they're the coolest and everyone knows it" then fine.
But don't come on here and say it's better at cleaning windows with the implication it is a better business decision without being able to defend it.
The only good business reason to buy any turnkey system (IMO) is because you are so busy earning money and guiding your empire with your fleet of vans. Even then why buy something that is as useless as gold plated taps over stainless steel.
If your business is THAT big then you will be employing a manager/technician anyway (or you or one of the savvy chaps can do it part time) and they can build or manage the build for you of an excellent tailor made system to your exact specification.
E.g. Van 1. Has to have hot on demand for all the first cleans you do.
Vans 2, 3, Good solid cold water systems with provision for sliding in a hot boiler where necessary.
Van 4 + trailer Set up with GutterVac/Pressure washing
Nowhere does PPB come into the equation.
-
I might buy one to keep my tax bill down 8)
yeah and me lol that's what I was thinking 10k should get me a rebate
-
The guy may have 15 vans on the road 10k to some window cleaning companies is pocket change.
There is a national with over 100 vans all fitted out by ionics they must be mugs too.
I have not read up on the pbb system and it is more than likely very clever marketing hype but there must be some amount of fact in there claim that it cleans better.
Love them or hate them ionics are one of the world biggest water fed pole system manufacturers they must be doing something right.
-
The guy may have 15 vans on the road 10k to some window cleaning companies is pocket change.
There is a national with over 100 vans all fitted out by ionics they must be mugs too.
I have not read up on the pbb system and it is more than likely very clever marketing hype but there must be some amount of fact in there claim that it cleans better.
Love them or hate them ionics are one of the world biggest water fed pole system manufacturers they must be doing something right.
Yes if they have their vans fitted with ppb systems then they are mugs its as simple as that, I'm not saying they are mugs because
they bought a turnkey system if you can afford it why not, but because of falling for a gimmick that makes no difference to the job we do.
Ionics could be the best company in the world but you have to wonder who they employ if they think by filtering water well
beyond what its needed to do the job it will make any difference to the finished clean.
That said I still suspect that its a marketing ploy designed to get their brand name out there and if a few mugs fall for it then
all the better.
-
I can see the logic of Martin and others wanting to use a better van mount purification system as most will know 0 ppm cold pure water on it's own does not work that well cleaning filthy glass no matter what some may think.
I'm sure on trying to win large commercial contracts and retainig them gives companies that run theses systems a very competitive edge over others too.
Companies who invest & run these types of systems I think are not as daft as you think they are far from it.
Quite right. So spend £50 and put an immersion heater in your tank. Why over complicate things?
Or even simpler a bit of TFR or something similar on brush
-
A converoryand window fitting bought one to get in on the act in my area and have had nothing but poo with it from day one they asked me to take a look at it for them. |I took one look and told them to send it back. \\they were using a load of resin and still only getting 000 for 2/3 day before having to refill resin.
-
Spoke to a highly regarded seller of RO- resin today,they told me it is a complete marketing ploy and nothing more. I have now been officially told that cleaning windows up to 010 is acceptable and unless your an owl you won't be able to tell the difference lol,Nuclear resin has no place in the window cleaning industry it is only supposed to be used in hospitals and lab environments. So there you go even the supplier of these products says that zero system is a waste of money it doesn't produce water any better than an HF4 or HF5 membrane
-
In theory if your water is at 000TDS it may already be less than one part per billion.
-
In theory if your water is at 000TDS it may already be less than one part per billion.
Yes true. Just need a more suffistikated and more finely tuned meter to find out.
-
If companies can aford to buy and run ionic zero systems then why not is what I say...Good luck to them :)
-
Been using PPB for nearly 6 years. What makes me laugh is ionics do not supply the correct equipment to check the purity. I however have the technology to check it (albeit i have to return it)
-
.......... and the difference is?
-
cleaner windows obviously ::)roll
.......... and the difference is?
Been using PPB for nearly 6 years. What makes me laugh is ionics do not supply the correct equipment to check the purity. I however have the technology to check it (albeit i have to return it)
-
Oh, cleaner than clean then.
-
Oh, cleaner than clean then.
Much cleaner than that obviously or people would not use it surely ::)roll
-
You see, what I can't understand is if No23, is who I think he is, he must be using zero tds per billion but then chucks in a well known additive used on here because the water obviously isn't good enough on its own (which raises the tds anyway) - makes no sense to my small brain.
-
Oh, cleaner than clean then.
Well if Daz can get clothes whiter than white there must be a product that can get a window cleaner than clean. ;D
-
Oh, cleaner than clean then.
Well if Daz can get clothes whiter than white there must be a product that can get a window cleaner than clean. ;D
Well obviously...der! ::)roll
-
What's the point of spending big bucks on ppb if custy's insides are minging? They don't look out and think Ooh thank god my windy has spent thousands on a set up, but I still can't see frack all out of my windows. It's all a big billy boo locks look at me swagger shiite I must be good at this cuz I spent 10 numpty grand on a mount. Fickle freekin fickle it is. Hate these big spenders who can't even blade too
-
What's the point of spending big bucks on ppb if custy's insides are minging? They don't look out and think Ooh thank god my windy has spent thousands on a set up, but I still can't see frack all out of my windows. It's all a big billy boo locks look at me swagger shiite I must be good at this cuz I spent 10 numpty grand on a mount. Fickle freekin fickle it is. Hate these big spenders who can't even blade too
What's a blade is that something sharp?
If so my missus don't let me near things like that ;D
-
Think about it there is absolutely no difference in PPB and PPM you cannot see spots on the glass with PPM and the same goes for PPB,if you speak to the real experts that sell this equipment like I have they will all tell you the same. It's purely a marketing tool they are using in order to get you to send 10k plus,you can get the same end product after RO which is around 4PPM before resin meaning you'll get 000 for months and month out of a sack of resin. 80-130 ltrs an hour system will cost you around £2300 incl vat giving you the same production rates.
-
Think about it there is absolutely no difference in PPB and PPM you cannot see spots on the glass with PPM and the same goes for PPB,if you speak to the real experts that sell this equipment like I have they will all tell you the same. It's purely a marketing tool they are using in order to get you to send 10k plus,you can get the same end product after RO which is around 4PPM before resin meaning you'll get 000 for months and month out of a sack of resin. 80-130 ltrs an hour system will cost you around £2300 incl vat giving you the same production rates.
How do you know for sure the actual purity of the water makes no difference when cleaning filthy glass if you have not tried it?
Most that have brought zero systems seem be involved in less frequenly cleans on larger/taller cleaning contracts than the run of the mill smaller domestic stuff. There must be a good reason why they invest in ppb systems surely as they are not wet behind the ears so to speak? ;D
-
You see, what I can't understand is if No23, is who I think he is, he must be using zero tds per billion but then chucks in a well known additive used on here because the water obviously isn't good enough on its own (which raises the tds anyway) - makes no sense to my small brain.
I use PPB as all the equipment was free and at the moment i have enough resin to last i would say 10 years (assuming it doesn't go off) So i just use PPB as its free.
As for cleaner windows, meh.
And yep i still use Vision.
-
You see, what I can't understand is if No23, is who I think he is, he must be using zero tds per billion but then chucks in a well known additive used on here because the water obviously isn't good enough on its own (which raises the tds anyway) - makes no sense to my small brain.
I use PPB as all the equipment was free and at the moment i have enough resin to last i would say 10 years (assuming it doesn't go off) So i just use PPB as its free.
As for cleaner windows, meh.
And yep i still use Vision.
I think that about says it all guys, hope any newbies reading this post will realise that not everybody on here is
handing out free information or looking to help.
L ::)roll L
-
I clicked my posts at random. Here's just one example.
It's guys like you Sean why I no longer can be bothered with posting anything really useful on here.
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=197211.msg1717020#msg1717020
Would you like a link to my YouTube channel as well? Where I do videos to help the trade?
-
You see, what I can't understand is if No23, is who I think he is, he must be using zero tds per billion but then chucks in a well known additive used on here because the water obviously isn't good enough on its own (which raises the tds anyway) - makes no sense to my small brain.
I use PPB as all the equipment was free and at the moment i have enough resin to last i would say 10 years (assuming it doesn't go off) So i just use PPB as its free.
As for cleaner windows, meh.
And yep i still use Vision.
I think that about says it all guys, hope any newbies reading this post will realise that not everybody on here is
handing out free information or looking to help.
L ::)roll L
Very sorry about this 23 came on here last night a few beers worse for wear (no excuse) and replied to the wrong post and section for that matter ::)roll would have removed the comment if you hadn't already replied to it. Very sorry. :-[
-
You see, what I can't understand is if No23, is who I think he is, he must be using zero tds per billion but then chucks in a well known additive used on here because the water obviously isn't good enough on its own (which raises the tds anyway) - makes no sense to my small brain.
I use PPB as all the equipment was free and at the moment i have enough resin to last i would say 10 years (assuming it doesn't go off) So i just use PPB as its free.
As for cleaner windows, meh.
And yep i still use Vision.
I think that about says it all guys, hope any newbies reading this post will realise that not everybody on here is
handing out free information or looking to help.
L ::)roll L
Very sorry about this 23 came on here last night a few beers worse for wear (no excuse) and replied to the wrong post and section for that matter ::)roll would have removed the comment if you hadn't already replied to it. Very sorry. :-[
That's what I like about Sean, he isn't afraid to swallow his pride and apologise if he gets something wrong ;)
-
Although I'm reluctant to admit to it on here, my van is fitted out by Ionics. None of this ppb stuff though.
Bear with me a moment: The right sort of credit (no deposit) was tricky for me to obtain and I got an all-in deal for a new van with a delivery unit (I purify my water in a lock-up); they could turn the whole thing around in under two weeks (including sourcing the vehicle) saving me a few hundred on van hire and saving my body from more weeks of lugging a backpack around. Yes, I do think that Ionics' marketing is creative (to put it mildly), but they were the only ones around at that time that could get me what I needed with the least headachs. I accept that it will probably cost me extra over time, but the alternative was renting a Transit long term with no system. The extra I will be paying over 5 years is probably less than the extra I will be able to earn.
The big mistake I made was waiting unil my old van was giving big problems; it left me short on choices. If there had been more choices, I could have saved myself some money - but I didn't have money to lay out when I needed it.
-
There is nothing to be ashamed of by owning an ionic setup ;)
-
There is nothing to be ashamed of by owning an ionic setup ;)
Spot on. Well done for coming out of the closet and into the sunlight of the spirit, Walter Mitty.
Having an Ionics system was a brave thing to admit, mate.
-
There is nothing to be ashamed of by owning an ionic setup ;)
Spot on. Well done for coming out of the closet and into the sunlight of the spirit, Walter Mitty.
Having an Ionics system was a brave thing to admit, mate.
It's quite a relief really. Until the 1960s, you could be imprisoned for having an Ionics system.