Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: stevon on July 25, 2015, 09:42:09 am

Title: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: stevon on July 25, 2015, 09:42:09 am
hi reordered some more vision 3 days ago.your not answering emails or phone.do you send an email 2 say item is dispatched??? ???
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: samson on July 25, 2015, 09:48:23 am
Maybe they have disappeared   ;D
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: stevon on July 25, 2015, 11:07:21 am
all sorted,thanx dave :)
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Smurf on July 25, 2015, 11:39:51 am

What do you think are the main advantages for you using vision still.
hi reordered some more vision 3 days ago.your not answering emails or phone.do you send an email 2 say item is dispatched??? ???
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: kempy on July 25, 2015, 12:11:11 pm
No problems Pal . It's in the post .
Glad you liking the product and a regular user .
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: slap bash on July 25, 2015, 01:26:45 pm
I was not to keen when it first came as all and sundry were raving. But after using I found the glass cleaned better and did shine much better. I think its a good product as its not easy making something that will clean in pure and not leave streaks  The bubbles  on the glass do make you think it will not work, but surprised, surplise it dryes perfect all round a good product.P/s does give a brilliant glide with the brush on the glass. I Like. Sceptic turn a happy customer.   
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Smurf on July 25, 2015, 01:46:09 pm
Must admit I did not like using vision to be honest as fine particles of dirt where a pain to rinse away properly with the bubbles it caused. Mind you I like to use fan jets on a good flow so probably exacerbated the issue I had.

Might give it another go though so what is the right ratio to mix in a van tank as I probably overdosed it as you do?
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Matt. on July 25, 2015, 04:01:00 pm
For the cost of vision it's well worth it.

Go vision before you go hot and will save you money and time.
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: SeanK on July 25, 2015, 04:11:36 pm
 ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: stevon on July 25, 2015, 05:48:22 pm
when I ran out of vision, I thought 2 be honest id call it a day.but I neeeeed that shine,shine.also it lasts ages &  that glide.what more  do you want ;D
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Bungle on July 25, 2015, 11:29:26 pm
Yawn yawn freekin yawn
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: kempy on July 26, 2015, 08:41:32 pm
Pleasing to hear for you Slap-dash .

Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Avo on July 27, 2015, 04:19:53 pm
Pleasing to hear for you Slap-dash .
can you use fans with this product or will it bubble on the glass to much? 
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: slap bash on July 27, 2015, 06:33:11 pm
I use fan jets with this product and they work fine what I do with mixing it. Is put my dose of 3.5 ml for my tank of 350 litres in a jar and add water which I shake up. Then add this  into the tank and fill up  with pure water. I don`t see a small overdose as a problem. I don`t really mind a bobble or two on the glass as it dries perfectly.
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Dave Willis on July 27, 2015, 06:46:03 pm
Weren't you the guy who claimed to know exactly what it was?
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: slap bash on July 27, 2015, 06:52:14 pm
I do know what it is, but will not say as its  a business to others and I respect this.
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Dave Willis on July 27, 2015, 06:56:40 pm
ah right, just wondered why you buy it from them and not make it up yourself?
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: slap bash on July 27, 2015, 07:07:12 pm
To much trouble for me to do, and its only 18 quid and I dont think its a big money spinner. I clean windows for a living and that`s easy enough.
There are a few on this forum who know what it is but if we all sold it it would not make enough for everyone. If one were observant you too would know. The answer was on this forum for all to see. But it slipped by unseen by most.
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Dave Willis on July 27, 2015, 08:04:17 pm
It's a massive money spinner if they sell enough. Work out what a 25l drum would cost to make up then work out the selling price. Big mark up. 25l of additive would cost you  £900 to purchase  ::)roll

I can't think of any products that come to a tenth of that price when bought in larger quantities, even isopropanol can be bought cheaply from suppliers if you know where to look.
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Smurf on July 27, 2015, 10:04:49 pm


It's a massive money spinner if they sell enough. Work out what a 25l drum would cost to make up then work out the selling price. Big mark up. 25l of additive would cost you  £900 to purchase  ::)roll

I can't think of any products that come to a tenth of that price when bought in larger quantities, even isopropanol can be bought cheaply from suppliers if you know where to look.

No one is being forced to buy it so I can't see what the big deal is myself.
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Dave Willis on July 27, 2015, 10:22:14 pm
There isn't, I was asking slap bash why he didn't produce his own, not necessarily to sell on.
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Smurf on July 27, 2015, 11:30:42 pm
I'm sure if we all knew the exact chems mix and amounts used we could make it at home too  ;D
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: SeanK on July 28, 2015, 07:54:28 am
I'm sure if we all knew the exact chems mix and amounts used we could make it at home too  ;D

Why? if you have the capacity to work out what it is then you would be in the position to know why it doesn't work.
The fact that Slap believes it works is fact that he hasn't a clue what it consists of.
You cant learn the secretes of a placebo and still expect it to have an effect.
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Smurf on July 28, 2015, 08:54:38 am
I'm sure if we all knew the exact chems mix and amounts used we could make it at home too  ;D

Why? if you have the capacity to work out what it is then you would be in the position to know why it doesn't work.
The fact that Slap believes it works is fact that he hasn't a clue what it consists of.
You cant learn the secretes of a placebo and still expect it to have an effect.

But it does work or they would not be selling it surely?
All the hype about philic & phobic glass and shiny glass now that's possibly in the minds of the ppl using it methinks.
It's just a wfp window cleaning boost that's all that don't seem to leave spotting on glass.
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: SeanK on July 28, 2015, 09:26:34 am
I'm sure if we all knew the exact chems mix and amounts used we could make it at home too  ;D

Why? if you have the capacity to work out what it is then you would be in the position to know why it doesn't work.
The fact that Slap believes it works is fact that he hasn't a clue what it consists of.
You cant learn the secretes of a placebo and still expect it to have an effect.

But it does work or they would not be selling it surely?
All the hype about philic & phobic glass and shiny glass now that's possibly in the minds of the ppl using it methinks.
It's just a wfp window cleaning boost that's all that don't seem to leave spotting on glass.

You have just contradicted your statement (it does work) yet the majority of things it claims to do you think is just in peoples
minds.
The thing is you are adding a very small amount of a detergent/mixture to your pure so you could say it makes the pure
better at cleaning and you wouldn't be breaking any advertising laws.
That doesn't mean it has any real benefit to the person using it, that's the secrete of legally selling nonsense to the public.
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: jk999 on July 28, 2015, 12:46:37 pm
Oh no the vision haters brigade same old people  😆
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: SeanK on July 28, 2015, 01:10:44 pm
Oh no the vision haters brigade same old people  😆

I find Vision to be nothing more than a silly gimmick but I don't hate it or the guys who sell it, infect I would rather see the cash in
their pockets than the guys who buy it, at least they will have the sense to put it to good use.
Fair play to them.
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: slap bash on July 28, 2015, 04:01:14 pm
It's a massive money spinner if they sell enough. Work out what a 25l drum would cost to make up then work out the selling price. Big mark up. 25l of additive would cost you  £900 to purchase  ::)roll

I can't think of any products that come to a tenth of that price when bought in larger quantities, even isopropanol can be bought cheaply from suppliers if you know where to look.

AS you have pointed out there is profit to be made its like window cleaning.I guess you work for nothing or does it cost you 10 p for water and charge your poor customers 20 quid. Its called  also free enterprise.Let me know when you are cleaning free of charge. I need help.
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: slap bash on July 28, 2015, 04:08:46 pm


Why? if you have the capacity to work out what it is then you would be in the position to know why it doesn't work.
The fact that Slap believes it works is fact that he hasn't a clue what it consists of.
You cant learn the secretes of a placebo and still expect it to have an effect.
[/quot

Sour grapes comes to mind, its seems to eating  your ass that someone is making good by discovering a very good product. Come on Sean you must be better than that.  Give up your story its getting a bit stale, even if it comes of the Super market  shelf they found it and are surely entitled to a profit. Live and let live.
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Smurf on July 28, 2015, 04:43:06 pm
I'm sure if we all knew the exact chems mix and amounts used we could make it at home too  ;D

Why? if you have the capacity to work out what it is then you would be in the position to know why it doesn't work.
The fact that Slap believes it works is fact that he hasn't a clue what it consists of.
You cant learn the secretes of a placebo and still expect it to have an effect.

But it does work or they would not be selling it surely?
All the hype about philic & phobic glass and shiny glass now that's possibly in the minds of the ppl using it methinks.
It's just a wfp window cleaning boost that's all that don't seem to leave spotting on glass.

You have just contradicted your statement (it does work) yet the majority of things it claims to do you think is just in peoples
minds.
The thing is you are adding a very small amount of a detergent/mixture to your pure so you could say it makes the pure
better at cleaning and you wouldn't be breaking any advertising laws.
That doesn't mean it has any real benefit to the person using it, that's the secrete of legally selling nonsense to the public.

Yes it does work and the glass dries out spot free but obviously people have different views what it actual does like me for instance  ;D

All I know it's just a chem boost and helps with cleaning crap off glass. Regards to making the windows look more shiny in my view is debatable  as even filthy glass shines in the right angle & light. Now some have also mentioned about vision turning phobic to phillic glass now that has not happened to any of the glass I've tried it on yet.

For all those sceptics out there who have not tried it yet but still comment on the product best you try it first then if you think it don't work then say so but don't comment just to slag it off if you have never tried it.
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Rich Wilts on July 28, 2015, 05:28:31 pm
I'm sure if we all knew the exact chems mix and amounts used we could make it at home too  ;D

I would if I felt there was a benefit. Having used it on more than one occassion now I cant see any benefit at all. The only difference is there's bubbles when its used, but thats not an advantage or a benefit. Is it?

Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Smurf on July 28, 2015, 05:50:21 pm
I'm sure if we all knew the exact chems mix and amounts used we could make it at home too  ;D

I would if I felt there was a benefit. Having used it on more than one occassion now I cant see any benefit at all. The only difference is there's bubbles when its used, but thats not an advantage or a benefit. Is it?

At the end of the day it's simply down to personal choice I suppose "The marmite effect" you will either love it or hate it  ;D
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: NBwcs on July 28, 2015, 09:01:29 pm
"For all those sceptics out there who have not tried it yet but still comment on the product best you try it first then if you think it don't work then say so but don't comment just to slag it off if you have never tried it."

Does that mean ive got to buy an ionics zero system before i can form the opinion that its for mugs who havnt done their homework?
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Smurf on July 29, 2015, 12:50:01 am
ionics zero system.... now yer talking can I have 2 please  ;D
hmmmm....spend 20 squid or 14 grand to try if it cleans any better. Wonder which one  I should go for ::)roll


"For all those sceptics out there who have not tried it yet but still comment on the product best you try it first then if you think it don't work then say so but don't comment just to slag it off if you have never tried it."

Does that mean ive got to buy an ionics zero system before i can form the opinion that its for mugs who havnt done their homework?
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: SeanK on July 29, 2015, 01:16:26 pm
ionics zero system.... now yer talking can I have 2 please  ;D
hmmmm....spend 20 squid or 14 grand to try if it cleans any better. Wonder which one  I should go for ::)roll


"For all those sceptics out there who have not tried it yet but still comment on the product best you try it first then if you think it don't work then say so but don't comment just to slag it off if you have never tried it."

Does that mean ive got to buy an ionics zero system before i can form the opinion that its for mugs who havnt done their homework?

Get a grip mate and get the point he trying to make which has nothing to do with either product. ::)roll
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Smurf on July 29, 2015, 03:41:03 pm
ionics zero system.... now yer talking can I have 2 please  ;D
hmmmm....spend 20 squid or 14 grand to try if it cleans any better. Wonder which one  I should go for ::)roll


"For all those sceptics out there who have not tried it yet but still comment on the product best you try it first then if you think it don't work then say so but don't comment just to slag it off if you have never tried it."

Does that mean ive got to buy an ionics zero system before i can form the opinion that its for mugs who havnt done their homework?

Get a grip mate and get the point he trying to make which has nothing to do with either product. ::)roll

If you want something you will buy it if you don't you will not. It's as simple as that really  ;D
You can do all the background research and read all the reviews if you like but that is just people’s opinions or what some call educated guessing if they have never tried it themselves.  That goes for any type of product be it a 5p tin of beans to the most expensive motor on the planet. The price of a product don't mean jack poope really either as long as you can afford to buy it in the first place then all what matters if you are happy with the product or not.

It's a bit like the discussion going on about using hot water or not. Some will say they never need it and other will say it makes their job easier. Who is right it don't matter in the slightest if you ask me as is down to the individual what they decide to use ;D
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: SeanK on July 29, 2015, 04:23:34 pm
ionics zero system.... now yer talking can I have 2 please  ;D
hmmmm....spend 20 squid or 14 grand to try if it cleans any better. Wonder which one  I should go for ::)roll


"For all those sceptics out there who have not tried it yet but still comment on the product best you try it first then if you think it don't work then say so but don't comment just to slag it off if you have never tried it."

Does that mean ive got to buy an ionics zero system before i can form the opinion that its for mugs who havnt done their homework?

Get a grip mate and get the point he trying to make which has nothing to do with either product. ::)roll

If you want something you will buy it if you don't you will not. It's as simple as that really  ;D
You can do all the background research and read all the reviews if you like but that is just people’s opinions or what some call educated guessing if they have never tried it themselves.  That goes for any type of product be it a 5p tin of beans to the most expensive motor on the planet. The price of a product don't mean jack poope really either as long as you can afford to buy it in the first place then all what matters if you are happy with the product or not.

It's a bit like the discussion going on about using hot water or not. Some will say they never need it and other will say it makes their job easier. Who is right it don't matter in the slightest if you ask me as is down to the individual what they decide to use ;D

No its not, the Ionics system is a good example of this, if you know how purified water works then you will know that filtering the water to a higher level isn't going to make any difference to its cleaning ability.
If you don't know how purified water works then you might fall for the Ionics gimmick its the same with everything
including additives.
I don't need to be a chemist to know that diluting any product to the level that Vision is diluted will render it useless
common sense and experience with stronger cleaning chemicals tell me this.
If this actually improved the cleaning power of water at that dilution ratio think what it would do undiluted.
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Smurf on July 29, 2015, 04:49:07 pm
ionics zero system.... now yer talking can I have 2 please  ;D
hmmmm....spend 20 squid or 14 grand to try if it cleans any better. Wonder which one  I should go for ::)roll


"For all those sceptics out there who have not tried it yet but still comment on the product best you try it first then if you think it don't work then say so but don't comment just to slag it off if you have never tried it."

Does that mean ive got to buy an ionics zero system before i can form the opinion that its for mugs who havnt done their homework?

Get a grip mate and get the point he trying to make which has nothing to do with either product. ::)roll

If you want something you will buy it if you don't you will not. It's as simple as that really  ;D
You can do all the background research and read all the reviews if you like but that is just people’s opinions or what some call educated guessing if they have never tried it themselves.  That goes for any type of product be it a 5p tin of beans to the most expensive motor on the planet. The price of a product don't mean jack poope really either as long as you can afford to buy it in the first place then all what matters if you are happy with the product or not.

It's a bit like the discussion going on about using hot water or not. Some will say they never need it and other will say it makes their job easier. Who is right it don't matter in the slightest if you ask me as is down to the individual what they decide to use ;D

No its not, the Ionics system is a good example of this, if you know how purified water works then you will know that filtering the water to a higher level isn't going to make any difference to its cleaning ability.
If you don't know how purified water works then you might fall for the Ionics gimmick its the same with everything
including additives.
I don't need to be a chemist to know that diluting any product to the level that Vision is diluted will render it useless
common sense and experience with stronger cleaning chemicals tell me this.
If this actually improved the cleaning power of water at that dilution ratio think what it would do undiluted.

What I call real pure water (ultrapure water) is a very powerful solvent used to clean nano technology components so you would not want that for window cleaning for sure. ;D

Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: slap bash on July 29, 2015, 06:56:16 pm
Sean could you please elaborate on your statement above I don`t understand what you are trying to say.
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: paulben on July 30, 2015, 05:07:38 pm
Whats your tds after adding vision mine went up
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Smurf on July 31, 2015, 05:39:25 pm

Whats your tds after adding vision mine went up

To be honest I never bothered to check.
Hown much did it go up by?
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: paulben on July 31, 2015, 06:36:26 pm
cannot remember but it went up . will mix some up prob at weekend got some  left over and want to wash car
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: kempy on July 31, 2015, 10:28:53 pm
I'm amazed your TDS has gone up with the dosage we advise .
I've been using it for approx 2 years and  not experienced TDS rise . Maybe go from TDS 000 to TDS 001 , if that ..
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: simonr on August 01, 2015, 09:18:48 am
kempy how would the vision  dosing work for this. 
i set off with 400 lts then when im getting low usually around 1ish i go & fill up again, now it depends where im working at to how much water i have left when i fill up  sometimes its half a tank but usually a lot less.  so dosing would just be a guess, would i be able to get it right for vision to work.  i dont want to end up with mass bubbles
cheers
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Smurf on August 01, 2015, 09:35:17 am
kempy how would the vision  dosing work for this. 
i set off with 400 lts then when im getting low usually around 1ish i go & fill up again, now it depends where im working at to how much water i have left when i fill up  sometimes its half a tank but usually a lot less.  so dosing would just be a guess, would i be able to get it right for vision to work.  i dont want to end up with mass bubbles
cheers

Use a separate dosing tank maybe?
if you look on their website they sell those too .
http://jigsaw-innovations.co.uk/product/wholesale-quantities/
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: SeanK on August 01, 2015, 10:09:41 am
A device that might help and to be honest one that no Vision user should be without, just hang it on your van door.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5rJ4g9EMUk
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Smurf on August 01, 2015, 11:07:56 am
A device that might help and to be honest one that no Vision user should be without, just hang it on your van door.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5rJ4g9EMUk

Might come in handy for the people that don't too ;D
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Smurf on August 01, 2015, 11:17:58 am
Mind you I normally ware me hard hat as you do ;D
A device that might help and to be honest one that no Vision user should be without, just hang it on your van door.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5rJ4g9EMUk

Might come in handy for the people that don't too ;D
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: Dave Willis on August 01, 2015, 12:27:26 pm
Just use the doser off a Nrafen bottle or get a syringe. Mark your tank half way with a felt tip pen and quarter way too. Should be easy to work out how many litres of water you're putting in.
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: kempy on August 01, 2015, 12:31:53 pm
SimonR , give me a buzz on 07979966041 .
Then at least SeanK won't need to respond .
Lol
Title: Re: fao jigsaw innovations??
Post by: kempy on August 01, 2015, 12:39:14 pm
Or very similiar to what Dave Willis has posted .
I regularly top up my Dosage during a working day .
I tend to not get too bogged down in the exact measuring .
Every time you do top up , you could be cautious and just add 1ml on the refill .

Then when your refilling from Scratch -400 litres you can then add 3ml to 4ml again .