Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: mike1986 on June 01, 2015, 05:25:22 pm
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How much pre tax profit, percentage wise do you make from one man, one van. I'm trying to work out figures and after all the costs, Vat, employers N.I etc the profit margin seems so low it would hardly be worth the hassle. Thanks, Mike.
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Holidays then when they take a sickie
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I found it to be the same Mike, if I wanted to pay a half decent wage then there wasn't enough left to make it
worth while.
I sort of worked it out that I would have to employ about 4 guys to make the same as I get working on my own.
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I found it to be the same Mike, if I wanted to pay a half decent wage then there wasn't enough left to make it
worth while.
I sort of worked it out that I would have to employ about 4 guys to make the same as I get working on my own.
So if you employ one guy you get a 25% pay rise.
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It's not straight forward, I employ lads but, a lot of bother comes with it.
I wouldn't send a van out on the road to make £50 a day, I just don't see that enough profit to justify the problems.
If you going to think this way tho, you need to have a set amount earned per day to make sure all costs and profit margins are maintained.
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If you did the sums and it wasn't worth the hassle, your prices are too low.
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£50 a day is roughly the pre-tax profit figure i came to...that was based on one guy working 28hrs per week at £10.00 ph. Is this pretty much the amount you can expect to achieve?
I have looked into the franchise option but im very skeptical about it. Im not sure i would trust someone to pay 20% of their income in royalties to me. I mean whats to stop them from just backing out of the franchise arrangement one day, and taking all your customers with them? They will have built up more of a rapport with the customers than me, and as all window cleaning is based on good will, i couldn't really do much about it even if i took them to court i imagine.
Don't really know the best way to go with this ???
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If you did the sums and it wasn't worth the hassle, your prices are too low.
I based it on one man doing about £200 a day. I think any more than that they would have to be working their butt off day in day out which would mean they probably wouldn't stick around.
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I think that £250 a week profit is the starting point. Anything less and it probably isnt worth the hassle.
I emply a fella but the benefits arent only financial, I like the fact that theres someone else there to share the harder and heavier work with. Ladders arent for me anymore if I can help it. It makes ladder work a lot safer too having someone foot the ladder when needs be. I like the fact that the reels are reeled in whilst I write out the ticket.
Saying that I dont know what profit I get from emplying but today we did £485 between us. He'll get £90.00 of that.
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If you did the sums and it wasn't worth the hassle, your prices are too low.
I based it on one man doing about £200 a day. I think any more than that they would have to be working their butt off day in day out which would mean they probably wouldn't stick around.
should be doing £300 not £200,
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£50 a day over a year ...... I would take that no problem ... but much better with a few more vans so the £12k a year from the 1 van becomes much more .... putting the 1st second van on (if that makes sense) not perhaps a great money spinner but get a few more on then life becomes much better ........... how many have I got on ?? just the one for now but I do know 3 different companies that run multiple vans (2 on here) 2 franchise and other employs ... don't think any of them are struggling to pay their bills ;)
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£50 a day is roughly the pre-tax profit figure i came to...that was based on one guy working 28hrs per week at £10.00 ph. Is this pretty much the amount you can expect to achieve?
I have looked into the franchise option but im very skeptical about it. Im not sure i would trust someone to pay 20% of their income in royalties to me. I mean whats to stop them from just backing out of the franchise arrangement one day, and taking all your customers with them? They will have built up more of a rapport with the customers than me, and as all window cleaning is based on good will, i couldn't really do much about it even if i took them to court i imagine.
Don't really know the best way to go with this ???
Dont blame you for not trusting the franchisee's! To date i have had 3 contact me do gain them canvassed work from 2 companies which are on here saying they want there own work as sick of paying the royalties and feel trapped. Before that i was considering the franchise route but now its a defo no no!.
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I dont understand it either, set up a new ltd company and take all the customers with you then ditch the franchise and ditch paying someone royalties
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My 1 man 1 van makes me £100 profit a day. And I work 4 days at £150 - £200 a day.
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£50 a day is roughly the pre-tax profit figure i came to...that was based on one guy working 28hrs per week at £10.00 ph. Is this pretty much the amount you can expect to achieve?
I have looked into the franchise option but im very skeptical about it. Im not sure i would trust someone to pay 20% of their income in royalties to me. I mean whats to stop them from just backing out of the franchise arrangement one day, and taking all your customers with them? They will have built up more of a rapport with the customers than me, and as all window cleaning is based on good will, i couldn't really do much about it even if i took them to court i imagine.
Don't really know the best way to go with this ???
Dont blame you for not trusting the franchisee's! To date i have had 3 contact me do gain them canvassed work from 2 companies which are on here saying they want there own work as sick of paying the royalties and feel trapped. Before that i was considering the franchise route but now its a defo no no!.
Agree with the above.now I really don't know anything about franchising and I will probably get slated for this and while I know a few on here have and are making a success of franchising .
I can not understand why an individual would pay to franchise a domestic window cleaning round from a local company .Once you have paid royalties,tax,n.i and running cost you would be lucky to take 55% do all the graft for work which basically is not yours.
Most franchising in other industries are based on buying in to the brand Iike McDonald's,dominos or subway which have a strong presence and proven formular.
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Expenses for man and van per day is 30% his of turnover on general window cleaning
£200 a day ? - thats between 4 to 5 hours work.
For other services it runs between 3 % and 20% of turnover
Franchising is great for the franchiser, less so for the franchisee - IMHO
Darran
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Well you say that but if your employee is getting paid let's say 90 per day. He invests in the business and then gets 80% of £250per day Then he is earning £200 per day less expenses. He is much better off even taking into account no paid holidays etc.
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Expenses for man and van per day is 30% his of turnover on general window cleaning
£200 a day ? - thats between 4 to 5 hours work.
For other services it runs between 3 % and 20% of turnover
Franchising is great for the franchiser, less so for the franchisee - IMHO
Darran
Thanks Smudger, i was hoping you would come in on this thread. Do you mean 30% is the profit margin? 30% for expenses on £200 would be £60.00, that wouldn't even cover the guys wage and fuel for the day. ???
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Hi mike,
That's correct 30% is the cost and yes on £200 it wouldn't pay a guys wages for a day, for seven hour day the minimum figure your aiming for is £280.
It's tricky to quantify an answer because you can make the figures to almost anything you want, but basically our guys for reg window cleaning do at least £35 p/h but average £40 p/h on regular cleaning work, other work is higher ie. Conservatory cleans, gutter clears etc...
From that I can take wages and generals running costs, fuel, servicing, wages, bonuses etc..
But that doesn't mean I have 70% profit, from this I have unit rent, advertising, vat,tax, mine and Mrs smudges wages, new equipment, unforeseen costs, etc....
There are so many ways to analyse income, potential income, and costs.
In short, if you employ and in six or seven hour day you can only hit £180 to £200 then the costs % wise will be a lot higher than someone turning out £300 a day
Hope this helps
Darran
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As with all expenses it can be very off putting if you start trying to work them out on a daily or monthly basis
that's why most large companies do it on a five year basis.
Lets say you employ a guy who can knock out £200 a day in work.
Over 46 weeks that would be £46k
If you pay him £20k for the 52 weeks then that leaves you £26k to cover expenses and your cut from his work load.
Expenses will vary depending on how you want this employee to work, his own van and so on but even at £10k a year
you would still be left with a net profit of £80k over 5 years.
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you should be aiming after all costs for an average profit of 33%-43% on domestic depending on daily turnover and level of advertising to gain new work..
With add ons, profit figure can be higher, yet it all depends on your pricing. employee cost around 30% of turnover as per Smudger post.
As Sean mentioned try to work out average cost and profit over a year or two bearing in mind that first one can be lower due to training.
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Cash flow is another important factor when first starting to employ, don't forget you wont have enough work
to cover you and your employee at the start so unless you want to employ somebody on a few hours a week to start (which I don't
think would be the best way to get the best guy for the job) then the employee will be eating into your earnings for a while.
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Thanks for the replies... That's definately cleared a few things up. :)
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If you did the sums and it wasn't worth the hassle, your prices are too low.
+1 so many work for peanut them try justify there low low prices I have herd them all." I can do it for that much you fella`s over charge. But one you think of employment you need to see sense and reality hits you between the eyes. Its amazing all the smart asses in our industry with little or no business skill.
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Expenses for man and van per day is 30% his of turnover on general window cleaning
£200 a day ? - thats between 4 to 5 hours work.
For other services it runs between 3 % and 20% of turnover
Franchising is great for the franchiser, less so for the franchisee - IMHO
Darran
So, being employed and getting under 30% of turnover (you say 30% is man and van) is something you you consider to be OK for employees, yet offering a franchisee 80% of his turnover is somehow not good?
Vin
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Interesting that franchisees are looking for canvassers.
Before I start, I clearly can only talk for myself and the way we run our business.
The vast majority of our customers are 12-weekly. So, let's take a look at a 12-weekly customer whom you gain by paying someone to canvass for you.
Our price for a 3-bed semi is £27. So, a 2x canvasser costs £54. Up front. For that you get, what, a 2 clean guarantee? That's the end of the canvasser's commitment to you. "We're moving in six months" - sign 'em up. "I just want them done until the winter" - sign 'em up. Not saying that's what anyone on here would do but to the guy at the doorstep there must be a temptation.
In our case, franchisee does the job, pays £5.40 in royalties. Two and a half years later he's paid out as much as the other guy had to find two and a half years ago. In the meantime if the customer has cancelled (and 20% don't even reach their fourth clean), they have been replaced, whether it was on the third clean or the ninth. For the rest of the time that customer's with the franchisee, if the customer gives up, moves, dies, needs dropping for non-payment they are replaced. At no extra cost.
So, good luck to the franchisees who think they are going to do significantly better with canvassed work. The grass isn't always greener.
Vin
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3 bed semi - £27.00? What's that, a dozen windows? You're guys should be doing £500 a day on that money.
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If you did the sums and it wasn't worth the hassle, your prices are too low.
+1 so many work for peanut them try justify there low low prices I have herd them all." I can do it for that much you fella`s over charge. But one you think of employment you need to see sense and reality hits you between the eyes. Its amazing all the smart asses in our industry with little or no business skill.
Mate until you have worked in a persons area don't try and tell them what they should and shouldn't be charging,
There's one guy who has just said he charges £27 for a 3 bed semi, I have deliberately upped my prices to stop me getting
any new work as I don't have time to do it, £12 quid for a 3 bed semi and haven't got a single taker.
Be a lot harder for me to employ than this guy top class business skills or not.
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Expenses for man and van per day is 30% his of turnover on general window cleaning
£200 a day ? - thats between 4 to 5 hours work.
For other services it runs between 3 % and 20% of turnover
Franchising is great for the franchiser, less so for the franchisee - IMHO
Darran
So, being employed and getting under 30% of turnover (you say 30% is man and van) is something you you consider to be OK for employees, yet offering a franchisee 80% of his turnover is somehow not good?
Vin
Yes Vin,
I see franchising is really good for you, but I don't think it's great for the franchisee - this is viewed purely from my perspective of running my own company, firstly, not only are you paying out a large financial sum for work, but you then have to continually pay a commission for that work, then if I read the other thread correctly you have to renew that franchise every few years and if you give it up/retire you cant sell it, it returns to the franchise owner, on top of this you have to buy a van, divertissement someone else's business, cover the expenses, tax, no sick or holiday pay...
As an employee they are guaranteed hours, income, bonuses, holiday and sick pay, they also don't need to worry about van repairs, advertising juggling bills and equipment.
It's horses for courses, good and bad points to both, but I feel anyone who fancies themselves as a business owner, particularly in window cleaning would be better off having their own company without strings attached
Darran
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3 bed semi - £27.00? What's that, a dozen windows? You're guys should be doing £500 a day on that money.
Our minimum charge for any house is £20 and we clean every 8 weeks... So £27 for a 3-bed at a 12 weekly frequency sounds about right.
Work smarter... Don't be a busy fool.
Andy :)
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If you did the sums and it wasn't worth the hassle, your prices are too low.
+1 so many work for peanut them try justify there low low prices I have herd them all." I can do it for that much you fella`s over charge. But one you think of employment you need to see sense and reality hits you between the eyes. Its amazing all the smart asses in our industry with little or no business skill.
Mate until you have worked in a persons area don't try and tell them what they should and shouldn't be charging,
There's one guy who has just said he charges £27 for a 3 bed semi, I have deliberately upped my prices to stop me getting
any new work as I don't have time to do it, £12 quid for a 3 bed semi and haven't got a single taker.
Be a lot harder for me to employ than this guy top class business skills or not.
I didn't. I merely stated that if it isn't worth the hassle of employing your prices are too low. Perfect Windows charges £27 on a three monthly frequency I think. I doubt he'd get that easily on a monthly. I charge £16-£18 on an 8 weekly frequency for a modern three bed semi. If I was monthly, I would probably find it harder to keep customers? Sure, monthly work keeps you busy, but it isn't good for your hourly rate.
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I see franchising is really good for you, but I don't think it's great for the franchisee Our franchisees are earning a bundle of cash. Just a little more than your employee's 20-25% - this is viewed purely from my perspective of running my own company, firstly, not only are you paying out a large financial sum for workOur guys don't pay for work, but you then have to continually pay a commission for that workYes, but as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, that work is guaranteed forever regardless, then if I read the other thread correctly you have to renew that franchise every few years at no cost and if you give it up/retire you cant sell it yes you can , it returns to the franchise owner no it doesn't, on top of this you have to buy a van, divertissement someone else's business, cover the expenses, tax do your employees not pay tax?, no sick or holiday pay...and a shedload more money to cover that
As an employee they are guaranteed hours, income, bonuses, holiday and sick pay, they also don't need to worry about van repairs, advertising juggling bills and equipment. Our franchisees are guaranteed enough work to keep them busy (the franchisees definition of "busy" is the only one that applies). They don't get holiday pay or sick pay, to be fair, but they have 55% more than your employees' 25% share to compensate. Van repairs and equipment, fair enough but they certainly never, ever need to advertise. That's what I mean when I say we supply enough work to fill them. I mean that we supply it. Why would they need to advertise?
It's horses for courses, good and bad points to both, but I feel anyone who fancies themselves as a business owner, particularly in window cleaning would be better off having their own company without strings attached It's a halfway house. Chap number one had a steady job and it would have been a hell of a jump to give it up. Numbers two and three said that if they went on their own, their prices would have been lower than ours less 20% and the fourth one signed up because he knew number 1 and had never seen him so happy,
Darran
Yes, of course it's good for me but my entire focus is on the franchisees' happiness. Easy to say but true in my case. I keep them happy in the knowledge that, in the long run, that will keep me happy.
Vin
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So you set up a franchise and all the work for free?
Just a little more than my employee's - I hope you meant a lot more !
So what is the purpose of renewing if no cost ?
Work is guaranteed forever ! - that's a big boast ( don't get defensive I know what you mean, you'll replace work that drops out ) what happens if say you are incapacitated by illness or accident ?
Our business models run differently, as I provide other services than window cleaning, like gutter vacing and pressure washing, this would be difficault to franchise as the amount of equipment needed would require multiple vans, we now have some large 3 yr contracts which I would also not be able to contemplate/ take on as part of a franchise - it's too restrictive for how I would like to run and expand
Darran
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If you did the sums and it wasn't worth the hassle, your prices are too low.
+1 so many work for peanut them try justify there low low prices I have herd them all." I can do it for that much you fella`s over charge. But one you think of employment you need to see sense and reality hits you between the eyes. Its amazing all the smart asses in our industry with little or no business skill.
Mate until you have worked in a persons area don't try and tell them what they should and shouldn't be charging,
There's one guy who has just said he charges £27 for a 3 bed semi, I have deliberately upped my prices to stop me getting
any new work as I don't have time to do it, £12 quid for a 3 bed semi and haven't got a single taker.
Be a lot harder for me to employ than this guy top class business skills or not.
I didn't. I merely stated that if it isn't worth the hassle of employing your prices are too low. Perfect Windows charges £27 on a three monthly frequency I think. I doubt he'd get that easily on a monthly. I charge £16-£18 on an 8 weekly frequency for a modern three bed semi. If I was monthly, I would probably find it harder to keep customers? Sure, monthly work keeps you busy, but it isn't good for your hourly rate.
8 weekly why do you think my prices are for 8 or 12 weekly, even at 4 weekly I couldn't get those prices.
Mate I'm not saying you cant get these prices in the right areas but its far from the norm.
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Hi Guys, just looking at the figures being banned about here on employees earnings hourly potential etc, over on the general cleaning section we are talking about add on services, just to share for anyone thats open and receptive to other income streams from add on services, you are all cleaning clients windows on a regular basis and hopefully building up a good rapport with them, each of these homes have hard floors in their kitchen come dinning rooms that need to be deep cleaned every so often ( now guys don't off the boil i know its the window cleaning section) but this market is totally untapped and open to any guy in any area, set up costs are very low just some deep cleaning mops,grout cleaning brushes,hard floor cleaning solution, finishing mops and you are up and running for under 150 quid, no training required as its so simple to carry out deep cleaning on any type of hard floor, guaranteed to generate 50 quid or over per hour and also guaranteed plenty of referral work as when your clients see the end results they will be happy to tell all their friends and family about the transformation of their tiles and grout lines (trust me these deep cleaning tasks are so simple and effective to carry out) again just to share this wide open add on service that can be very profitable for anyone who wants to know more information under no obligation bang me an email to info@jskcleaning.ie Tadgh
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So you set up a franchise and all the work for free?
No, they pay for the franchise but (in my case, I can't talk for others) the franchise fee covers the cost of equipment, etc, that we supply. We lost money on the first franchise as we spent more than I'd prepared for. From then on we've broken even. So there's no charge in there for "work supplied"
Just a little more than my employee's - I hope you meant a lot more !
I certainly do.
So what is the purpose of renewing if no cost ?
The renewal point gives both sides an opportunity to get out of the deal by choosing not to renew.
Work is guaranteed forever ! - that's a big boast ( don't get defensive I know what you mean, you'll replace work that drops out ) what happens if say you are incapacitated by illness or accident ?
If I die or am incapacitated, it's already planned for someone in the game to take over and run it in conjunction with my wife. If she dies at the same time as me, all bets are off, to be fair, but that might be the point when I might have to give up caring.
Our business models run differently, as I provide other services than window cleaning, like gutter vacing and pressure washing, this would be difficault to franchise as the amount of equipment needed would require multiple vans, we now have some large 3 yr contracts which I would also not be able to contemplate/ take on as part of a franchise - it's too restrictive for how I would like to run and expand
I don't think franchising is for everybody by any means. The thing I disagree with is the implication that it's only good for the franchisor.
Darran
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Some good reading here. my work isvery poorly priced. Around here you get 5/6 quid for 3 bed semi. Lol.
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The rule of thumb in a lot of businesses employing in the service sector were use will use 33% work labour costs 33% GENERAL COST AND 33% PROFIT. This one can use a guideline when employing staff. If this does not work for you the potability is you pricing is to low or you don`t have the volume of work to employ. This fact stops many businesses from growing to the next level as an employer. Its a mistake of thinking small when you start off thinking you can start with low pricing as you only have your own salary to consider. I urge starter window cleaner to think of this fact before rushing of and thinking you can cut prices when you start off. It will nip you in the butt later in business.
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Tadgh - only from what I've read on the contracts board the guys seem hard pressed to charge anything over £12 p/h I also know a few domestic cleaners and the highest they seem to get is £15 p/h great as a solo operator to make a living not enough if your employing.
Vin - granted you seem to run your franchise in a very fair and honest way, and the clarification on what you charge alters the perspective, certainly on what you offer, but I suspect that yours is different from the norm, we use a mobile dog groomer who is franchised it cost him £20k to buy an area, plus supply a van no older than 3 yrs old - all parts, supplies must be brought from the franchise owner and they take 25% of the gross income.
Just like employers there are good and bad.
As I posted the view on franchising is mine, based on people who do it ( other sectors ) and generally reading about them, most like above seem to demand a nice wedge before you start, so fair play on working this a better way
Darran
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Ah, now if we're talking about franchising in general, there are some utter shockers out there.
Guy on a business forum I frequent said a couple of years ago that there was a small unit next to his. Some "Take coffees round companies" franchise had had three people through it in a year. Each paid for a "reduced price" franchise, using the equipment their predecessor had failed with and failing themselves. The franchisor owned the property.
When I was considering franchising I went to the franchise show to see what other people were offering and I was appalled at some of the ones on offer. Some of them were obviously just mad keen to sell you the franchise with no interest in whether you'd succeed. One grounds maintenance company was flogging their franchise for £45K. On top of that was equipment. Then they passed on some leads (no guarantee on numbers) and away you went. If they were getting £45 K for the franchise itself, why would they care if you were successful or not?
One of my franchisees found a company at a show that charged a big franchise fee and sold you some kit (for a fortune)to remove tree stumps. "Where do I get my business?" he asked. "Just phone all the tree surgeons in your area," was the response. "Why do I need you?" he said.
Terrible.
Vin
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Tadgh - only from what I've read on the contracts board the guys seem hard pressed to charge anything over £12 p/h I also know a few domestic cleaners and the highest they seem to get is £15 p/h great as a solo operator to make a living not enough if your employing.
Vin - granted you seem to run your franchise in a very fair and honest way, and the clarification on what you charge alters the perspective, certainly on what you offer, but I suspect that yours is different from the norm, we use a mobile dog groomer who is franchised it cost him £20k to buy an area, plus supply a van no older than 3 yrs old - all parts, supplies must be brought from the franchise owner and they take 25% of the gross income.
Just like employers there are good and bad.
As I posted the view on franchising is mine, based on people who do it ( other sectors ) and generally reading about them, most like above seem to demand a nice wedge before you start, so fair play on working this a better way
Darran
Hi Darran, it does not matter if a sole operator or an employee carries out this work, its there to be done and plenty of it and its wide open for anyone to tap into,the figures i've quoted are already being earned as this work is priced by the job so every one that goes ahead will bring in 50 quid or more per hour, anyway i'm off tomorrow for a week so won't be thinking about deep cleans for awhile.
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The thing I always find interesting is the assumption that any franchisee must be a complete retard and have no idea what they're doing.
There are countless reasons why someone will choose this route instead of setting up on their own. For myself I was earning up to £30k a year as a manager in a 3 mobile phone shop with all the added benefits of sick/holiday pay etc etc.
I never had any ambition to be self employed, if I had don't you think I would have done it already considering I'm 45? I had good jobs and worked hard to improve myself by learning new skills which is fine until the company you work for goes bust.
I worked 5 days out of 7 and thanks to a dickhead of an area manager had to work in Poole which considering I live in Southampton was a pain in the arse. My wife works Mon - Fri and I was working every weekend. There's a saying that's quite apt here I think "Life's to short" If at this time I had said to my wife I was leaving this job to become self employed she would have kittens and It was not something that would have happened.
So am I better off having 80% of my turnover or working in Poole? I know which I'd choose.
Jake
Perfect Windows franchisee no1
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Good for you. Well done and good luck.
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Looking at the figures quoted. Are people saying to employ someone doing £200-£250 a day ain't worth it ?
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Looking at the figures quoted. Are people saying to employ someone doing £200-£250 a day ain't worth it ?
I think what's being said is that labour should be about 1/3 of daily turnover. I think the overhead may vary because you may or mat not have a site overhead, but if you intend to grow you will one day & you should always include that. I know of a wc around here that pays his young helper £40 a day. That doesn't mean that £120 a day would be good though.
From the looks of things Smudger buys older vans. That is what I intend to do - buy them cash. I therefore won't have a new van finance to include. I think everyone will be slightly different.
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Looking at the figures quoted. Are people saying to employ someone doing £200-£250 a day ain't worth it ?
I think what's being said is that labour should be about 1/3 of daily turnover. I think the overhead may vary because you may or mat not have a site overhead, but if you intend to grow you will one day & you should always include that. I know of a wc around here that pays his young helper £40 a day. That doesn't mean that £120 a day would be good though.
From the looks of things Smudger buys older vans. That is what I intend to do - buy them cash. I therefore won't have a new van finance to include. I think everyone will be slightly different.
I know what you are saying but he has just brought a 61 plate van lol :)
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Vin, do you charge double for a first clean?
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Right, anyone in Southampton go find those three bed semi's out, or just spend a day following a "perfect windows" van & post a few leaflets!! ;D
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If you could get £27 for a three bed semi in my area I would need to hire bodyguard to stop a rival trying to put me out of
business.
Four days a week and I would be on £100k. the local canal would be filled with murdered shiners.
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Vin, do you charge double for a first clean?
Noooooo. That would be silly.
Vin
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If a franchisor was to set up in my area and could achieve £27 for a 3 bed semi :o I would gladly pay the franchise fee and royalties
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If you could get £27 for a three bed semi in my area I would need to hire bodyguard to stop a rival trying to put me out of
business.
Four days a week and I would be on £100k. the local canal would be filled with murdered shiners.
Sean,
Even without knowing where you live I can tell you that there are people there who would pay £27 for a 12-weekly window clean. You're looking for someone who's been repeatedly let down by useless tosspot cleaners and just wants someone reliable to clean their windows well.
I took a £3.50 clean from a local guy. She phoned me and said she'd sacked him; he was useless. Our list price for her house was £24 (This was pre price rise). Her sister in law had recommended us.
I'd put money on there being people like her in every town. The trick is finding them.
Vin
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And, by the way, I travelled and gained seven customers in just under two hours yesterday at those prices, and not in my home town. So it's not just here that proper prices are accepted.
As I mentioned earlier, two of our franchisees pointed out that we get work at a higher price after 20% royalty than they felt they would have been able to charge.
And remember also that all of the franchisees started with around £10K of work, so no standing start required.
Vin
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If you could get £27 for a three bed semi in my area I would need to hire bodyguard to stop a rival trying to put me out of
business.
Four days a week and I would be on £100k. the local canal would be filled with murdered shiners.
Haha. Supply and demand
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If you could get £27 for a three bed semi in my area I would need to hire bodyguard to stop a rival trying to put me out of
business.
Four days a week and I would be on £100k. the local canal would be filled with murdered shiners.
Sean,
Even without knowing where you live I can tell you that there are people there who would pay £27 for a 12-weekly window clean. You're looking for someone who's been repeatedly let down by useless tosspot cleaners and just wants someone reliable to clean their windows well.
I took a £3.50 clean from a local guy. She phoned me and said she'd sacked him; he was useless. Our list price for her house was £24 (This was pre price rise). Her sister in law had recommended us.
I'd put money on there being people like her in every town. The trick is finding them.
Vin
The trick would be finding enough of them, I don't doubt that there wouldn't be somebody prepared to pay that amount
but to get enough that are close enough together would be impossible certainly for me.
Three properties at a £9 a pop that can be done in an hour would be no different than one at £27 where you
have to do a lot more driving so you still only end up with the same hourly rate.
-
If you could get £27 for a three bed semi in my area I would need to hire bodyguard to stop a rival trying to put me out of
business.
Four days a week and I would be on £100k. the local canal would be filled with murdered shiners.
Sean,
Even without knowing where you live I can tell you that there are people there who would pay £27 for a 12-weekly window clean. You're looking for someone who's been repeatedly let down by useless tosspot cleaners and just wants someone reliable to clean their windows well.
I took a £3.50 clean from a local guy. She phoned me and said she'd sacked him; he was useless. Our list price for her house was £24 (This was pre price rise). Her sister in law had recommended us.
I'd put money on there being people like her in every town. The trick is finding them.
Vin
I'm sure there's plenty out there who're willing to pay £27.00 for a three bed semi. Funny how they all live in Southampton. Anyway, charging those rates you're leaving yourself wide open to being undercut. Sure some won't jump ship but a good percentage will.
-
Then you'll spend your working life trying to replace them, when they're like rocking horse $h1t.
-
Sean, you're delusional at times. To think that you wouldn't find another customer willing to pay £27 for a 12 weekly clean (£117 per year) within let's say a forty minute drive, assuming the house takes 20 minutes to clean is ridiculous.
My average customer pays over £200 annually for window cleaning. That's not a boast, I'm merely stating what people are prepared to pay for a certain level of service.
This thread seems to have been hijacked somewhat anyway. In response to the original question, you need a grafter, that's prepared to work in all weathers (within reason) that can sustain a good quality clean in volume, all day every day. Chances are he's going to know you're house prices, which is going to get his little brain ticking over, working out how much money he is earning you each day. So unless you pay him well, he'll walk or cheat or try to set up while working for you. Just my opinion ;D
-
I'm sure there's plenty out there who're willing to pay £27.00 for a three bed semi. Funny how they all live in Southampton. Anyway, charging those rates you're leaving yourself wide open to being undercut. Sure some won't jump ship but a good percentage will.
But you're missing the point of my post. These are all people who have had enough of cleaners who were cheaper. They don't want the hassle of replacing their cleaner because he's given up over the winter/ got a job in a warehouse / gone inside / got bored / decided he'll only come if the pub's shut and there isn't an "R" in the month.
Your statement that a "good percentage" will jump ship flies in the face of our experience over the past five years. It's only 12-weekly customers who are charged that much and we lose a staggeringly small number of them. Six-weekly, yes we lose some, but very few 12-weekly.
It's easy to convince yourself that price matters but it's not always so.
Ask yourself, do you drive the cheapest car it's possible to buy? Why not?
Vin
-
The trick would be finding enough of them, I don't doubt that there wouldn't be somebody prepared to pay that amount
but to get enough that are close enough together would be impossible certainly for me.
Three properties at a £9 a pop that can be done in an hour would be no different than one at £27 where you
have to do a lot more driving so you still only end up with the same hourly rate.
My van tracker has me driving for about a total of an hour and ten minutes on a typical day so those numbers don't hold up.
Vin
-
I must say I love people telling me that we can't charge what we do and that we'll either not get customers or we'll lose them or we'll not make money servicing them. I've been listening to that for five years.
Those statements all fly in the face of the reality, which is that since June 2013 we have gone from one van on the road to five. So, it is possible.
And, by the way, our pricing is on our website and every leaflet we send out so our customers know what they will pay before they call. We're not conning them into high prices with high-pressure sales tactics. They come willingly.
Vin
P.S. Assume in your answers that I already know I'm wrong.
-
Love the replies vin
But your still wrong,just can't educate pork lol
-
Love the replies vin
But your still wrong, just can't educate pork lol
;D
I find this such an interesting thread.
The way I see it is that Vin's franchisor start up fee covers all the equipment the franchisee will need to run his business. If he starts a completely new business from scratch , he will still need a sign written van, a pole, an r/o, etc. which he needs to buy. He will then have to find work as well as learn how to manage his business, usually by trail and error.
I would be more than happy to give an up front amount to the franchisor for supplying me the right equipment first time, full on the job and business management training and a full daily worksheet from day one. Actually, Vin is only asking a 20% royalty fee for every clean his franchisee does. All those other costs the franchisee would have to pay for anyway. In fact it would probably cost him more if you consider some of the newbie questions that get asked on this forum.
I'm a typical example of this. I would have been in a much better position in those early days had I got the right equipment to do the job from day one.
-
Love the replies vin
But your still wrong, just can't educate pork lol
;D
I find this such an interesting thread.
The way I see it is that Vin's franchisor start up fee covers all the equipment the franchisee will need to run his business. If he starts a completely new business from scratch , he will still need a sign written van, a pole, an r/o, etc. which he needs to buy. He will then have to find work as well as learn how to manage his business, usually by trail and error.
I would be more than happy to give an up front amount to the franchisor for supplying me the right equipment first time, full on the job and business management training and a full daily worksheet from day one. Actually, Vin is only asking a 20% royalty fee for every clean his franchisee does. All those other costs the franchisee would have to pay for anyway. In fact it would probably cost him more if you consider some of the newbie questions that get asked on this forum.
I'm a typical example of this. I would have been in a much better position in those early days had I got the right equipment to do the job from day one.
Playing Devils advocate here Spruce... Do you think you would still be a franchisee if you had gone down that route originally or would you have gone on your own by now?
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I'm sure there's plenty out there who're willing to pay £27.00 for a three bed semi. Funny how they all live in Southampton. Anyway, charging those rates you're leaving yourself wide open to being undercut. Sure some won't jump ship but a good percentage will.
But you're missing the point of my post. These are all people who have had enough of cleaners who were cheaper. They don't want the hassle of replacing their cleaner because he's given up over the winter/ got a job in a warehouse / gone inside / got bored / decided he'll only come if the pub's shut and there isn't an "R" in the month.
Your statement that a "good percentage" will jump ship flies in the face of our experience over the past five years. It's only 12-weekly customers who are charged that much and we lose a staggeringly small number of them. Six-weekly, yes we lose some, but very few 12-weekly.
It's easy to convince yourself that price matters but it's not always so.
Ask yourself, do you drive the cheapest car it's possible to buy? Why not?
Vin
I have had this conversation numerous times but some will not budge and continue to believe that a customer will jump ship as soon as someone cheaper comes along. There also seems to be a mistaken belief that customers get numerous quotes for window cleaning. Simply not true. Generally if the customer thinks your price is reasonable and your face doesn't offend them, you get the job.
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I have had this conversation numerous times but some will not budge and continue to believe that a customer will jump ship as soon as someone cheaper comes along. There also seems to be a mistaken belief that customers get numerous quotes for window cleaning. Simply not true. Generally if the customer thinks your price is reasonable and your face doesn't offend them, you get the job.
Plus, once you've cleaned three or four times, done a good job and not kicked the cat, they'd sooner chop off their little finger than drop you for an unknown.
Vin
-
...a full daily worksheet from day one...
Spruce, thanks for your kind comments. Just to clarify this - the franchisee starts with about a quarter-full round. From there it's about three or four months to fairly full. A year or two later it's time to go to full to the brim. The gap is to get the franchisee up to speed with time to deal with problems and fit enough to go at it full time (the franchisees aren't in the first flush of youth - younger than me, though).
Vin
-
I'm sure there's plenty out there who're willing to pay £27.00 for a three bed semi. Funny how they all live in Southampton. Anyway, charging those rates you're leaving yourself wide open to being undercut. Sure some won't jump ship but a good percentage will.
But you're missing the point of my post. These are all people who have had enough of cleaners who were cheaper. They don't want the hassle of replacing their cleaner because he's given up over the winter/ got a job in a warehouse / gone inside / got bored / decided he'll only come if the pub's shut and there isn't an "R" in the month.
Your statement that a "good percentage" will jump ship flies in the face of our experience over the past five years. It's only 12-weekly customers who are charged that much and we lose a staggeringly small number of them. Six-weekly, yes we lose some, but very few 12-weekly.
It's easy to convince yourself that price matters but it's not always so.
Ask yourself, do you drive the cheapest car it's possible to buy? Why not?
Vin
The bit about the car is silly, no comparison what so ever.
-
Do you sell a franchise kit Vin? Or considered it? Or do it?
-
Sean, you're delusional at times. To think that you wouldn't find another customer willing to pay £27 for a 12 weekly clean (£117 per year) within let's say a forty minute drive, assuming the house takes 20 minutes to clean is ridiculous.
My average customer pays over £200 annually for window cleaning. That's not a boast, I'm merely stating what people are prepared to pay for a certain level of service.
This thread seems to have been hijacked somewhat anyway. In response to the original question, you need a grafter, that's prepared to work in all weathers (within reason) that can sustain a good quality clean in volume, all day every day. Chances are he's going to know you're house prices, which is going to get his little brain ticking over, working out how much money he is earning you each day. So unless you pay him well, he'll walk or cheat or try to set up while working for you. Just my opinion ;D
How do you call getting your windows cleaned 3 or 4 times a year good service, the windows will be dirty for 90% of
the year.
Yes my customers also pay around £150 to £200 quid a year but for that they don't have to wait until they cant see though
the glass before they get cleaned.
Some nonsense talked on here at times.
-
The bit about the car is silly, no comparison what so ever.
Why are people so utterly, tediously literal on the Internet?
Let's assume that what you've said is correct and, for some reason cars are outside the world of not buying the cheapest you can find. Use your imagination.
Do you have the cheapest jeans it's possible to buy?
Do you have the cheapest shoes it's possible to buy?
Do you have the cheapest carpet it's possible to buy?
Do you take your car to the cheapest garage available?
Do you use the cheapest tyres it's possible to buy?
Do you use the cheapest plumber available?
Do you buy the cheapest TV it's possible to buy?
Do you use the cheapest window cleaning equipment available (IKEA sell a squeegee for 95p)?
Do you buy the cheapest beer it's possible to buy?
Do you buy the cheapest food it's possible to buy?
Do you use the cheapest builder available?
Do you go to the cheapest restaurant in your area?
Etc, etc. Repeat a thousand times for all the things you purchase.
Hopefully at least one of those might just strike you as not "silly". In which case, think if there ever might be a time that you didn't just buy on price.
See, there's the point I was (pretty obviously) making. Well done. Customers are the same. They. Do. Not. Buy. Solely. On. Price. Nobody does.
Vin
-
Do you sell a franchise kit Vin? Or considered it? Or do it?
No I don't. I'm an Ian Lancaster disciple.
Vin
-
How do you call getting your windows cleaned 3 or 4 times a year good service, the windows will be dirty for 90% of
the year.
Yes my customers also pay around £150 to £200 quid a year but for that they don't have to wait until they cant see though
the glass before they get cleaned.
Some nonsense talked on here at times.
Clearly it's a service level that people prefer, as 2/3 of our customers choose 12-weekly rather than 6-weekly. Giving people what they freely choose might be considered as "good service".
12-weekly is not "3 or 4 times a year". It's 4.
If your claim is true and a clean every 12x7 days = 84 days leaves them dirty for 90% of the time, then customers' windows must be getting dirty in 8.4 days. Do your customers live down coal mines? If you clean every month then on the same basis (8.4 days to dirty) your customers are paying for their windows to be dirty for 72% of the time. What a terrible service to pay "£150 - £200 a year" for. Our customers would pay £108.
You are indeed correct about nonsense being talked on here.
Vin
-
Sean, you're delusional at times. To think that you wouldn't find another customer willing to pay £27 for a 12 weekly clean (£117 per year) within let's say a forty minute drive, assuming the house takes 20 minutes to clean is ridiculous.
My average customer pays over £200 annually for window cleaning. That's not a boast, I'm merely stating what people are prepared to pay for a certain level of service.
This thread seems to have been hijacked somewhat anyway. In response to the original question, you need a grafter, that's prepared to work in all weathers (within reason) that can sustain a good quality clean in volume, all day every day. Chances are he's going to know you're house prices, which is going to get his little brain ticking over, working out how much money he is earning you each day. So unless you pay him well, he'll walk or cheat or try to set up while working for you. Just my opinion ;D
How do you call getting your windows cleaned 3 or 4 times a year good service, the windows will be dirty for 90% of
the year.
Yes my customers also pay around £150 to £200 quid a year but for that they don't have to wait until they cant see though
the glass before they get cleaned.
Some nonsense talked on here at times.
If you are charging £15 for a 3 bed semi twelve times a year (which is what your figures suggest) then you are doing very well indeed. I am not worthy. My customers won't pay that monthly, but they don't mind paying £17-£18 two monthly. I know they prefer £108 a year to £175.
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How do you call getting your windows cleaned 3 or 4 times a year good service, the windows will be dirty for 90% of
the year.
Yes my customers also pay around £150 to £200 quid a year but for that they don't have to wait until they cant see though
the glass before they get cleaned.
Some nonsense talked on here at times.
Clearly it's a service level that people prefer, as 2/3 of our customers choose 12-weekly rather than 6-weekly. Giving people what they freely choose might be considered as "good service".
12-weekly is not "3 or 4 times a year". It's 4.
If your claim is true and a clean every 12x7 days = 84 days leaves them dirty for 90% of the time, then customers' windows must be getting dirty in 8.4 days. Do your customers live down coal mines? If you clean every month then on the same basis (8.4 days to dirty) your customers are paying for their windows to be dirty for 72% of the time. What a terrible service to pay "£150 - £200 a year" for. Our customers would pay £108.
You are indeed correct about nonsense being talked on here.
Vin
Well yours must be under a dome because I have a few that get cleaned every 12 weeks and the windows are filthy.
Your not the guys who was offering a 12 week clean guarantee by any chance. ::)roll
-
The bit about the car is silly, no comparison what so ever.
Why are people so utterly, tediously literal on the Internet?
Let's assume that what you've said is correct and, for some reason cars are outside the world of not buying the cheapest you can find. Use your imagination.
Do you have the cheapest jeans it's possible to buy?
Do you have the cheapest shoes it's possible to buy?
Do you have the cheapest carpet it's possible to buy?
Do you take your car to the cheapest garage available?
Do you use the cheapest tyres it's possible to buy?
Do you use the cheapest plumber available?
Do you buy the cheapest TV it's possible to buy?
Do you use the cheapest window cleaning equipment available (IKEA sell a squeegee for 95p)?
Do you buy the cheapest beer it's possible to buy?
Do you buy the cheapest food it's possible to buy?
Do you use the cheapest builder available?
Do you go to the cheapest restaurant in your area?
Etc, etc. Repeat a thousand times for all the things you purchase.
Hopefully at least one of those might just strike you as not "silly". In which case, think if there ever might be a time that you didn't just buy on price.
See, there's the point I was (pretty obviously) making. Well done. Customers are the same. They. Do. Not. Buy. Solely. On. Price. Nobody does.
Vin
Ah, there we are, some better examples there in your condescending post.
-
8 weekly I charge between £7 and £9 for a 3 bed semi depending on size 6 weekly but the majority of
my work is detached 4 or 5 bed at between £20 and £25 six weekly.
You see where I live people who live in 3 bed semi's don't have a fortune in earnings so if a shiner called at the door
asking for £27 for a 20 minute window clean 12 weekly or not they wouldn't be thinking well that's only £107 a year
they would be thinking this guy needs to get a grip.
-
How do you call getting your windows cleaned 3 or 4 times a year good service, the windows will be dirty for 90% of
the year.
Yes my customers also pay around £150 to £200 quid a year but for that they don't have to wait until they cant see though
the glass before they get cleaned.
Some nonsense talked on here at times.
SeanK
What nonsense has Vin said in any of his posts?
The fact is he has 5 vans on the road and his customers are happy to pay his prices.
You should try and learn from some of the posts on here instead of putting them down all the time...
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You see where I live people who live in 3 bed semi's don't have a fortune in earnings so if a shiner called at the door
asking for £27 for a 20 minute window clean 12 weekly or not they wouldn't be thinking well that's only £107 a year
they would be thinking this guy needs to get a grip.
Fair enough... But that doesn't mean that others can't charge £27 for a 20 minute job!
-
You see where I live people who live in 3 bed semi's don't have a fortune in earnings so if a shiner called at the door
asking for £27 for a 20 minute window clean 12 weekly or not they wouldn't be thinking well that's only £107 a year
they would be thinking this guy needs to get a grip.
Fair enough... But that doesn't mean that others can't charge £27 for a 20 minute job!
Mate I never said Vin didn't get or charge that amount, I'm just defending myself over sunshine windows remark,
saying I was delusional because I believed that I couldn't get those prices.
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Ah, there we are, some better examples there in your condescending post.
Totally intentional.
Vin
-
How do you call getting your windows cleaned 3 or 4 times a year good service, the windows will be dirty for 90% of
the year.
Yes my customers also pay around £150 to £200 quid a year but for that they don't have to wait until they cant see though
the glass before they get cleaned.
Some nonsense talked on here at times.
SeanK
What nonsense has Vin said in any of his posts?
The fact is he has 5 vans on the road and his customers are happy to pay his prices.
You should try and learn from some of the posts on here instead of putting them down all the time...
Again mate I never said this about Vin.
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8 weekly I charge between £7 and £9 for a 3 bed semi depending on size 6 weekly but the majority of
my work is detached 4 or 5 bed at between £20 and £25 six weekly.
You see where I live people who live in 3 bed semi's don't have a fortune in earnings so if a shiner called at the door
asking for £27 for a 20 minute window clean 12 weekly or not they wouldn't be thinking well that's only £107 a year
they would be thinking this guy needs to get a grip.
I have worked for a few cleaners in Vin's areas canvassing and can confirm he gets those prices at those frequences.
like Seank i think it is mad that a customer would pay £27 every 3 month's to have dirty windows most of the year as doing 4 cleans a year simply doesnt keep the windows clean nomatter what is said it just cleans them when they are dirty instead of keeping them clean but it seems to work for old Vinny so fair play.
We all run things different and what works for 1 may not work for another.. An example is me doing front only cleans all the time, many think im mad and wonder why im not doing the backs however the roads i choose to work on simply dont have rear access unless they are home but 99 percent of the time they are out so have no choice anyway which for me is a win..
As long as we earn a nice crust who care's.
-
Well yours must be under a dome because I have a few that get cleaned every 12 weeks and the windows are filthy.
Your not the guys who was offering a 12 week clean guarantee by any chance. ::)roll
I don't care whether you think the windows get dirty. I care about whether the customer is happy. There is a gap a mile wide between the two. Before you say it, I know they are happy with a 12-weekly clean because, given the choice between an £18 6-weekly clean or a £27 12-weekly clean, 2/3 choose the latter.
I'd rather charge £27 to clean someone's windows than £9. Clearly you don't agree, as you're keen to tell me time after time why I'm wrong (you can do three to my one, customers windows get too dirty, etc). Good luck to you.
It would also appear that you deeply care about whether your customers windows are perfect at all times. I deeply care about whether my customers are happy. Good luck to you.
Vin
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I never realised the £27 price quoted for a three bed semi was for a 12 weekly frequency. I thought it was 6 weekly.
I have to say i do think one or two of your prices are under the going rate. £33.00 for a 3 monthly town house. We'd be wanting more like £40+ for that.
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8 weekly I charge between £7 and £9 for a 3 bed semi depending on size 6 weekly but the majority of
my work is detached 4 or 5 bed at between £20 and £25 six weekly.
You see where I live people who live in 3 bed semi's don't have a fortune in earnings so if a shiner called at the door
asking for £27 for a 20 minute window clean 12 weekly or not they wouldn't be thinking well that's only £107 a year
they would be thinking this guy needs to get a grip.
I have worked for a few cleaners in Vin's areas canvassing and can confirm he gets those prices at those frequences.
like Seank i think it is mad that a customer would pay £27 every 3 month's to have dirty windows most of the year as doing 4 cleans a year simply doesnt keep the windows clean nomatter what is said it just cleans them when they are dirty instead of keeping them clean but it seems to work for old Vinny so fair play.
We all run things different and what works for 1 may not work for another.. An example is me doing front only cleans all the time, many think im mad and wonder why im not doing the backs however the roads i choose to work on simply dont have rear access unless they are home but 99 percent of the time they are out so have no choice anyway which for me is a win..
As long as we earn a nice crust who care's.
Oi, get off my patch, Kent.
I LOVE the idea of fronts only terraces. I bet you make a mint; every terrace front I've ever done seems to be finished before I start.
Vin
-
Ah, there we are, some better examples there in your condescending post.
Totally intentional.
Vin
:-* :-* :-*
-
Sean, I couldn't care less whether you think you can't get those prices. My problem is you believing that no one else can, or is charging these prices.
I also never said mine were 12 weekly either :P
-
Sean, I couldn't care less whether you think you can't get those prices. My problem is you believing that no one else can, or is charging these prices.
I also never said mine were 12 weekly either :P
Mate my brother is a self employed joiner who earned half a million quid last year after expenses, do you know
how I know this ? he told me.
I have very little time for blow holes.
Like I said all I can tell anybody is what I can earn and why I cant get more and I don't care if you know better.
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Well yours must be under a dome because I have a few that get cleaned every 12 weeks and the windows are filthy.
Your not the guys who was offering a 12 week clean guarantee by any chance. ::)roll
I don't care whether you think the windows get dirty. I care about whether the customer is happy. There is a gap a mile wide between the two. Before you say it, I know they are happy with a 12-weekly clean because, given the choice between an £18 6-weekly clean or a £27 12-weekly clean, 2/3 choose the latter.
I'd rather charge £27 to clean someone's windows than £9. Clearly you don't agree, as you're keen to tell me time after time why I'm wrong (you can do three to my one, customers windows get too dirty, etc). Good luck to you.
It would also appear that you deeply care about whether your customers windows are perfect at all times. I deeply care about whether my customers are happy. Good luck to you.
Vin
So let me get this straight, your customers can pay £108 a year for 4 cleans or £144 a year for 8 cleans, so for
the sake of an extra £36 2/3 choose the 4 and cant see that they could have 4 extra cleans for £9 a pop.
They're not very bright in your neck of the woods Vin. ::)roll
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I keep saying it, I don't care about anything other than whether our customers are happy. Clearly customers prefer the 12-weekly option, as they choose it freely. So do I, as our guys earn almost 50% more per hour doing 12-weeklies (I suspect it probably adds a minute or two to a clean). Who loses?
Rather than deriding the time we must spend cleaning, the intelligence of people in Southampton, the dirtiness of windows or whatever else strikes your fancy, why not try offering it and see what the takeup is? You'll earn more.
Vin
-
Vin.
I think Sean has a secret crush on you really. Sean you need to get a grip. There has not been one post on here without having a dig at people. Grow up idiot.
-
Sean thinks he's on the Vision thread.
-
Vin.
I think Sean has a secret crush on you really. Sean you need to get a grip. There has not been one post on here without having a dig at people. Grow up idiot.
Mate its a forum where people debate and challenge what others say and before you get on your high horse casting stones
maybe you should find out who had the first dig at who.
-
I keep saying it, I don't care about anything other than whether our customers are happy. Clearly customers prefer the 12-weekly option, as they choose it freely. So do I, as our guys earn almost 50% more per hour doing 12-weeklies (I suspect it probably adds a minute or two to a clean). Who loses?
Rather than deriding the time we must spend cleaning, the intelligence of people in Southampton, the dirtiness of windows or whatever else strikes your fancy, why not try offering it and see what the takeup is? You'll earn more.
Vin
Mate I have no doubt about the intelligence of the people of Southampton that remark was just a dig at your nonsense
and I'm sure anybody from Southampton on here will realise that.
-
Sean thinks he's on the Vision thread.
Mate I know deep down that I shouldn't be arguing with these types and the sensible thing would be just to let them get
on with it.
Maybe I need help or to get a life. ;D
-
Gotta love seank's post these days.
In a morning before I got to work I just check down the threads to see which topics Sean is on. It's great fun.
;D
-
Gotta love seank's post these days.
In a morning before I got to work I just check down the threads to see which topics Sean is on. It's great fun.
;D
Well you where all complaining on how dead the forum had got. ;D
Yes I know some will say to me it was better dead so crawl back under your stone. ;D
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This is a strange topic. I think the guys who don't understand why customers would pay a fifty per cent uplift to have their Windows done four times a year rather than 8.6 Times a year don't see things through the customers eyes.
A window cleaner is offering a service. Lots of people would rather have a less frequent service, done properly than a frequent poor service like they may have experienced in the past.
Customer value perception.
-
This is a strange topic. I think the guys who don't understand why customers would pay a fifty per cent uplift to have their Windows done four times a year rather than 8.6 Times a year don't see things through the customers eyes.
A window cleaner is offering a service. Lots of people would rather have a less frequent service, done properly than a frequent poor service like they may have experienced in the past.
Customer value perception.
You have missed the point completely Tom, nobody is saying that a customer wont pay extra for a better service and cut
back on a few cleans to be able to afford it.
The point is if you are charging £27 for an excellent service could another cleaner not charge £15 for as good a service
and still make a well above average living even for the south of England, we all know they could.
So lets say Mrs x next door is getting the same level of service as you are giving but getting a lot more cleans per year for the same money, would your customer not be temped to jump ship ?
8 weekly is right most customers wont jump ship for the sake of a few quid but there has to be a point where people begin to
think hold on a minute I'm just being ripped off here.
To say that people are happy with a 12 weekly clean is just nonsense, they are happy with what they can afford and that's
no different with any of us.
These blow holes all have one thing in common, they don't seem to have any competition that can offer the same level of
service as themselves and its isn't worth while for anybody to try unless they are charging the same as they are.
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Hi Sean, I appreciate your view and there is a valid argument that says if you provide the same level of service at a lower price people will change to you. But the customer is not open to change because they are happy with what they have.
In your scenario it is possible they would switch if they saw their neighbour and discussed price, level of service etc but in my experience it doesn't happen very much.
If you have a decent window cleaner who does what he promises to do in terms of clean and regularity, doesn't kick the cat, leave the gate open, Nick anything or p in the garden. Then they will keep him.
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Sean thinks he's on the Vision thread.
Mate I know deep down that I shouldn't be arguing with these types and the sensible thing would be just to let them get
on with it.
You're right there, but to challenge is fine. The thing is though Perfect Windows likes to annoy, his responses portray that. And people take the bait. He enjoys it.
He obviously has done well in a business sense but .....
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Hi Sean, I appreciate your view and there is a valid argument that says if you provide the same level of service at a lower price people will change to you. But the customer is not open to change because they are happy with what they have.
In your scenario it is possible they would switch if they saw their neighbour and discussed price, level of service etc but in my experience it doesn't happen very much.
If you have a decent window cleaner who does what he promises to do in terms of clean and regularity, doesn't kick the cat, leave the gate open, Nick anything or p in the garden. Then they will keep him.
Tom if you can take customers from other shiners because you offer a better level of service then logic would dictate that
you could do the same if you could offer the same level of service but are a lot cheaper.
Again mate I'm not talking about losing customers for the sake of a fiver but at the levels these guys claim to be at there is
plenty of scope to undercut and tempt customers to move elsewhere.
Vin has priced his work so that his customers can only afford to have their windows cleaned every 12 weeks are you honestly
trying to tell me they wouldn't move if they found somebody else with a proven reputation offering a lot more cleans for the
same money.
-
Hi Sean. no mate. What I am saying is the customer is no longer looking. Also, there is a percentage of people who would rather pay more because they relate higher cost to better service.
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And, the way Vin's model works. He avoids the cost conscious price buyer because his prices are on all his media. The people who want a lower price wouldn't ring him in the first place.
My prices aren't as high as those quoted but they are higher than some in my area. I got a bundle of new customers recently because one of them asked a few of their neighbours how good was their window cleaner. "He's ok" was the usual response {these are her words by the way}, she wanted a glowing reference because she and others she knew had a recent bad experience with their cleaner {no idea what}. Anyway, she contacted me from a leaflet and I got a handful of new customers, all paying considerably more than they did previously but are all literally delighted. Big smiles each time we turn up.
Sean, you obviously do a good job but lots of us don't and it's the unhappy customer who will jump ship, not the happy ones.
-
Vin
Out of interest how many customers have you lost in a year
I know you anal about these things lol
-
Vin.
I think Sean has a secret crush on you really. Sean you need to get a grip. There has not been one post on here without having a dig at people. Grow up idiot.
Mate its a forum where people debate and challenge what others say and before you get on your high horse casting stones
maybe you should find out who had the first dig at who.
Not sure if this is aimed at me but I work very hard never to attack people personally. I may disagree with what you say but I do my best not to aim at the person. If I've made a personal dig at you, point it out and I'll apologise.
Vin
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Vin has priced his work so that his customers can only afford to have their windows cleaned every 12 weeks are you honestly trying to tell me they wouldn't move if they found somebody else with a proven reputation offering a lot more cleans for the same money.
Sean,
You seem to be suggesting that I'm forcing my customers to use me in some way. They have a staggering number of choices other than me. ( https://www.google.co.uk/maps/search/window+cleaners/@50.9252096,-1.4208745,14z - and those are just the ones on the web )
All my work is openly priced ( http://tinyurl.com/pwprice ). They come to me willingly. They don't have to use us, they don't have to take 12-weekly cleans if they don't want to. Looking at the work that's come in in June so far, we have 21 x 6-weekly and 22 x 12-weekly. That ratio will drop over time as it's pretty much always the 6-weeklies that drop out. Not one of those people had to phone me. None were tied to a barrel with a gun to their ear. All of them were free to compare prices and service levels with anyone they chose. Whether they did that or not is not my concern. They called us and we'll go and clean their windows until they either ask us to stop or stop paying us.
I really, genuinely, don't know why you're so upset by the way I run my business.
Vin
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I also work in southampton and can confirm that there is plenty of competition ......all my work on one estate recently was canvassed by three lads working trad and charging much much less including whole fascia cleans on a four bed semi for £25 quid but i only lost one customer .
like people have said , if you do a good job and keep turning up most people won't switch to save a few quid .
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You're right there, but to challenge is fine. The thing is though Perfect Windows likes to annoy, his responses portray that. And people take the bait. He enjoys it.
He obviously has done well in a business sense but .....
I think that's a misreading of the situation. I do not like to annoy. I'm quite a forensic debater, which I understand can annoy but it's not intended to annoy.
You'll also note that I try very hard not to make personal comments about people. If I wanted to annoy them, I would make it personal.
Vin
I don't think it's a misreading of the situation at all. If you look at your post #71, I would say he is spot on, if you don't like to annoy don't reply in such a condescending manner.
-
You're right there, but to challenge is fine. The thing is though Perfect Windows likes to annoy, his responses portray that. And people take the bait. He enjoys it.
He obviously has done well in a business sense but .....
I think that's a misreading of the situation. I do not like to annoy. I'm quite a forensic debater, which I understand can annoy but it's not intended to annoy.
You'll also note that I try very hard not to make personal comments about people. If I wanted to annoy them, I would make it personal.
Vin
I don't think it's a misreading of the situation at all. If you look at your post #71, I would say he is spot on, if you don't like to annoy don't reply in such a condescending manner.
Oh dearie me. Someone very deliberately put the rise up me. His entire argument was "That's silly". So I took the mick out of the poverty of his argument. Find a post anywhere in my entire posting history where I attack someone. I'm sure it's happened but not often and certainly not deliberately.
And I note that your post was not "Look, there's one case in this thread where Vin deliberately winds someone up". You said "The thing is though Perfect Windows likes to annoy, his responses portray that" which is a comment on my general behaviour on here and, incidentally, a personal and inaccurate attack.
Vin
-
Who said you have to make it personal to to annoy?
-
Hi Sean, I appreciate your view and there is a valid argument that says if you provide the same level of service at a lower price people will change to you. But the customer is not open to change because they are happy with what they have.
In your scenario it is possible they would switch if they saw their neighbour and discussed price, level of service etc but in my experience it doesn't happen very much.
If you have a decent window cleaner who does what he promises to do in terms of clean and regularity, doesn't kick the cat, leave the gate open, Nick anything or p in the garden. Then they will keep him.
Tom if you can take customers from other shiners because you offer a better level of service then logic would dictate that
you could do the same if you could offer the same level of service but are a lot cheaper.
Again mate I'm not talking about losing customers for the sake of a fiver but at the levels these guys claim to be at there is
plenty of scope to undercut and tempt customers to move elsewhere.
Vin has priced his work so that his customers can only afford to have their windows cleaned every 12 weeks are you honestly
trying to tell me they wouldn't move if they found somebody else with a proven reputation offering a lot more cleans for the
same money.
I think the same but when i look closer to home then why do i not lose any customers for only doing the fronts?? All my customers seem more than happy with things! Admitidly im cleaning 12 times a year and not just 4 but still im not doing a proper job as such as missing the backs out.
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This is a strange topic. I think the guys who don't understand why customers would pay a fifty per cent uplift to have their Windows done four times a year rather than 8.6 Times a year don't see things through the customers eyes.
A window cleaner is offering a service. Lots of people would rather have a less frequent service, done properly than a frequent poor service like they may have experienced in the past.
Customer value perception.
You have missed the point completely Tom, nobody is saying that a customer wont pay extra for a better service and cut
back on a few cleans to be able to afford it.
The point is if you are charging £27 for an excellent service could another cleaner not charge £15 for as good a service
and still make a well above average living even for the south of England, we all know they could.
So lets say Mrs x next door is getting the same level of service as you are giving but getting a lot more cleans per year for the same money, would your customer not be temped to jump ship ?
8 weekly is right most customers wont jump ship for the sake of a few quid but there has to be a point where people begin to
think hold on a minute I'm just being ripped off here.
To say that people are happy with a 12 weekly clean is just nonsense, they are happy with what they can afford and that's
no different with any of us.
These blow holes all have one thing in common, they don't seem to have any competition that can offer the same level of
service as themselves and its isn't worth while for anybody to try unless they are charging the same as they are.
I think the point that you miss is that most customers in the South East don't want a monthly service. Most are far happier with a less frequent service. So am I because I reckon if I was £9 on a three bed semi I would keep them monthly, but I'd have to work twice as hard for the same money. I decided early on to price higher and accept it would take longer to build the work up.
-
Gotta love seank's post these days.
In a morning before I got to work I just check down the threads to see which topics Sean is on. It's great fun.
;D
PMSFL
-
Who said you have to make it personal to to annoy?
Neither of us. But where you're wrong, you utterly retarded gimboid, is that you seem to think that I deliberately annoy you. I don't. I accept that you may become annoyed because of my style of argument but it's not intended to annoy, you cretin. It's intended to advance an argument, not annoy idiots like you.
I know that it's not intentional because I know me much better than you do. Because (1) I'm me and (2) you're thick as pig muck..
Vin
-
Hi Sean, I appreciate your view and there is a valid argument that says if you provide the same level of service at a lower price people will change to you. But the customer is not open to change because they are happy with what they have.
In your scenario it is possible they would switch if they saw their neighbour and discussed price, level of service etc but in my experience it doesn't happen very much.
If you have a decent window cleaner who does what he promises to do in terms of clean and regularity, doesn't kick the cat, leave the gate open, Nick anything or p in the garden. Then they will keep him.
Tom if you can take customers from other shiners because you offer a better level of service then logic would dictate that
you could do the same if you could offer the same level of service but are a lot cheaper.
Again mate I'm not talking about losing customers for the sake of a fiver but at the levels these guys claim to be at there is
plenty of scope to undercut and tempt customers to move elsewhere.
Vin has priced his work so that his customers can only afford to have their windows cleaned every 12 weeks are you honestly
trying to tell me they wouldn't move if they found somebody else with a proven reputation offering a lot more cleans for the
same money.
I think the same but when i look closer to home then why do i not lose any customers for only doing the fronts?? All my customers seem more than happy with things! Admitidly im cleaning 12 times a year and not just 4 but still im not doing a proper job as such as missing the backs out.
Its simple Mick, you offer a front for £10 so where is the room to undercut, like I have said I cant see customers jumping ship
for the sake of a fiver.
You miss the backs out because they are too much hassle so other shiners aren't going to fancy the backs either.
-
..
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1433959090_bend.jpg)
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1433959180_image.jpg)
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Who said you have to make it personal to to annoy?
Neither of us. But where you're wrong, you utterly retarded gimboid, is that you seem to think that I deliberately annoy you. I don't. I accept that you may become annoyed because of my style of argument but it's not intended to annoy, you cretin. It's intended to advance an argument, not annoy idiots like you.
I know that it's not intentional because I know me much better than you do. Because (1) I'm me and (2) you're thick as pig muck..
Vin
I didnt say you intentionally try to annoy me, I just think you try to annoy in general, being arrogant doesn't help. Nothing more.
Anyway, thanks for the compliments sweetheart ;D
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Not read all of these posts cos basically your all correct and what works for you ... well works for you however I think you should pack in cleaning windows and all become top class defence / prosecution barristers ;D
-
ifu can afford drop in wages :o
-
ifu can afford drop in wages :o
I was going to say politicians, but that would cut most wages in half. ;D
-
ifu can afford drop in wages :o
I was going to say politicians, but that would cut most wages in half. ;D
not politicians ..... you've all got more passion in your arguments ;D
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I haven't read all the comments but all I'm going to say is that £27 for a 3 bed semi in the south or where I work is no biggy,I have a minimum charge on any house of £20 regardless of the amount of windows etc. if I did a bungalow and it was £30 if I had nothing within a couple of miles I wouldn't want it TBH
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Another thing that experience teaches you when doing higher end domestics is that price has little to do with it,it's all down to trust and if they actually take to you as a person. Price is just 1 factor in gaining quality work,if they don't like the look of you you could do a £100 job for £50 you still wouldn't get it round my neck of the woods. I've gained loads of work over the years from crap WFPolers and in some cases charged twice the price,customers relations and people skills will get you further in this game than just going in and undercutting. Believe it or not if your to cheap the old alarm bells start ringing,if you price what you should be charging you should be able to plod on and do far more than a couple headless chickens thrashing through work. You'd be surprised how many I've known think there earning far more than others just down to the fact they think they must be because physically there working harder.
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Ahhh, such a pity this thread was forced down to the lowest common denominator by Sean an KS
Before taking up window cleaning I carried out a survey by knocking a few dozen roads in several villages, the result of this was a surprise most important, top of the list was reliability !!!!
Followed by..... Quality !!!! Oh yeah then came ( a long way behind about 1 in 15 ) price... Ta daa
On this we based our biz around the first 2 - I was never scared to price well ( but fair ) that's why a four week service is just that every 4 weeks the same day of the week every time. Or in the case of heavy rain caught up no later than 3 working days - yes that means Saturday or Sunday work.
On the above your more likely to lose custom for bad service or quality than price, my dropouts over the years have backed this up.
Vin is a great guy, and works hard at his biz, he's also passionate about ( rightly so ) some on here just can't take that, or accept points of view, I have never known vin to be rude, yet there are those who have insecurities attack him personally because they have no facts to their own argument on.
For the last 3 years we have promoted 8 wky cleans in a more positive way, I get 25 to 40% more per clean and like vin two thirds take this option - why because these people do not want a shiney rapping on the door every month, they see it as a quality service, delivered reliably at a good price.
Those who want 4 wky are also happy, cheaper clean, more often, either way I've not had a " omg you back already " for years !!
If I started again I'd do 6 and 12 week options - 4 wky is IMO outdated with wfp
Lastly - my van buying habits are my own ! - :P
Best regards
Darran
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Smudger maybe you should get your facts right before casting stones, firstly I never attacked Vin or anybody else on this
post, nor did I accuse him of being rude.
I stated that I couldn't get £27 for a three bed semi in my area and explained as best as I could why this was, for this I was
called delusional (not by Vin ) and it went down hill from there, Vin has as much to answer for why this happened as the two names you mentioned.
For every example you give of why it works for you there will be as many guys for which it wont work, price might not be high
on the list in your surveyed area that doesn't mean it wont be top of the list elsewhere.
You also talk about quality, well one of the biggest concerns in my area has the worst quality you have ever come across
yet only a small percentage of their customers ever move elsewhere and they not cheap either.
-
As Spike Milligan once said.....
"I thought I'd begin by reading a poem by Shakespeare, but then I thought, why should I? He never reads any of mine"
-
Smudger maybe you should get your facts right before casting stones, firstly I never attacked Vin or anybody else on this
post, nor did I accuse him of being rude.
I stated that I couldn't get £27 for a three bed semi in my area and explained as best as I could why this was, for this I was
called delusional (not by Vin ) and it went down hill from there, Vin has as much to answer for why this happened as the two names you mentioned.
For every example you give of why it works for you there will be as many guys for which it wont work, price might not be high
on the list in your surveyed area that doesn't mean it wont be top of the list elsewhere.
You also talk about quality, well one of the biggest concerns in my area has the worst quality you have ever come across
yet only a small percentage of their customers ever move elsewhere and they not cheap either.
You also reckon it only costs £500 a year to run your business. It is part of the same mindset of small thinking which leads to low pricing.
-
Tbh Sean when the topic is about those that employ and the debate/conversation is differing approaches to business the price of a clean, and the fact you repeatedly state no one can charge that, this or the other, or can earn a,b or c per hour, or turnover £££££££ a year,does not need to be yet again thrown into the mix
When I talked about vin you may have noted that was a different paragraph, new paragraph means new subject, it does not state you attacked vin, the previous paragraph stated you and KS brought the thread down, it's not fact it's my opinion, you had to hijack a thread and turn it into a price debate (again - sigh)
Sorry if you confused yourself with the next paragraph where no names were mentioned and it was more of a general observation I've seen over the years.
So, the quality of cleans in your area are poor ? Yet the prices are high ? But they keep there customers ?
Have I understood that correctly?
Darran
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If I started again I'd do 6 and 12 week options - 4 wky is IMO outdated with wfp
In general i'd agree with your 6 and 12 week observation. My own work seems to have gravitated to that. And i NEVER get a "leave it today".
I'd disagree with your assumption that is outdated because of or down to WFP though. The air quality is generally better, we no longer have coal fires and heavily polluting cars etc neccesitating fortnighly cleans. And of course, WFP cannot cure spiders webs, eggs, leaves, seeds etc............which we find on windows. I "think" its just want people want, and what they are prepared to pay. I have been sacked because i couldn't come round fortnightly ;D Can't please everyone, you only have to please the majority of your customers.
Regards Vin, he is mostly correct and well thought out. Funny when he gets it wrong though, be prepared for a wikipedia and google bomb !!!!! ;D All twisted the right way................
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Tbh Sean when the topic is about those that employ and the debate/conversation is differing approaches to business the price of a clean, and the fact you repeatedly state no one can charge that, this or the other, or can earn a,b or c per hour, or turnover £££££££ a year,does not need to be yet again thrown into the mix
When I talked about vin you may have noted that was a different paragraph, new paragraph means new subject, it does not state you attacked vin, the previous paragraph stated you and KS brought the thread down, it's not fact it's my opinion, you had to hijack a thread and turn it into a price debate (again - sigh)
Sorry if you confused yourself with the next paragraph where no names were mentioned and it was more of a general observation I've seen over the years.
So, the quality of cleans in your area are poor ? Yet the prices are high ? But they keep there customers ?
Have I understood that correctly?
Darran
Yes Darran the topic is about employing and why for some it doesn't seem worthwhile, that's where earnings came into it.
Some said because of what they can charge it would be hard to make enough to make employing worthwhile after
paying a wage.
To be honest until Vin got involved it was plodding along in a friendly manner with some decent advice,and that's my opinion.
Once again you have stated something without taking the time to check the facts.
Yes this guy would be one of the costlier cleaners in the area employs about 20 guys and his quality is rubbish yet he loses very few customers.
I have taken a few from him and they are the most hateful first cleans you could imagine frames haven't been cleaned in years
and so on.
I guarantee there's not a guy on here who doesn't know a crappy cleaner in their area who has been going for years and keeps
all or most of his customers and its nothing to do with being cheap.
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Smudger maybe you should get your facts right before casting stones, firstly I never attacked Vin or anybody else on this
post, nor did I accuse him of being rude.
I stated that I couldn't get £27 for a three bed semi in my area and explained as best as I could why this was, for this I was
called delusional (not by Vin ) and it went down hill from there, Vin has as much to answer for why this happened as the two names you mentioned.
For every example you give of why it works for you there will be as many guys for which it wont work, price might not be high
on the list in your surveyed area that doesn't mean it wont be top of the list elsewhere.
You also talk about quality, well one of the biggest concerns in my area has the worst quality you have ever come across
yet only a small percentage of their customers ever move elsewhere and they not cheap either.
You also reckon it only costs £500 a year to run your business. It is part of the same mindset of small thinking which leads to low pricing.
Show me where I said it takes £500 to run a business ? and to be honest mate I have noticed over a time that my pricing isn't that far behind yours when the properties are like for like.
The difference is I don't constantly feel the need to blow about it or make out that I am some financial wiz, I done what most
do who haven't a clue when starting out, I checked out what others where charging and went with the higher amount.
I then went my own way when I got more experience and confidence.
-
Ahhh, such a pity this thread was forced down to the lowest common denominator by Sean an KS
Before taking up window cleaning I carried out a survey by knocking a few dozen roads in several villages, the result of this was a surprise most important, top of the list was reliability !!!!
Followed by..... Quality !!!! Oh yeah then came ( a long way behind about 1 in 15 ) price... Ta daa
On this we based our biz around the first 2 - I was never scared to price well ( but fair ) that's why a four week service is just that every 4 weeks the same day of the week every time. Or in the case of heavy rain caught up no later than 3 working days - yes that means Saturday or Sunday work.
On the above your more likely to lose custom for bad service or quality than price, my dropouts over the years have backed this up.
Vin is a great guy, and works hard at his biz, he's also passionate about ( rightly so ) some on here just can't take that, or accept points of view, I have never known vin to be rude, yet there are those who have insecurities attack him personally because they have no facts to their own argument on.
For the last 3 years we have promoted 8 wky cleans in a more positive way, I get 25 to 40% more per clean and like vin two thirds take this option - why because these people do not want a shiney rapping on the door every month, they see it as a quality service, delivered reliably at a good price.
Those who want 4 wky are also happy, cheaper clean, more often, either way I've not had a " omg you back already " for years !!
If I started again I'd do 6 and 12 week options - 4 wky is IMO outdated with wfp
Lastly - my van buying habits are my own ! - :P
Best regards
Darran
Smudger can you please explain why you have suggested that I forced down his thread.......
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Bump
Still waiting on your reply Smudger
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KS - I don't think calling others condescending really helped the thread do you? The perfectly reasonable example given about people not using a window cleaner solely on price was in my opinion reasonable, not silly. The post wasn't even aimed at you, your replies struck me as inflammatory rather than participating in what was an interesting thread.
Sean - struggling to see your point, so the windy in question does rubbish work ? Yes or No
The cleaner in question charges more than you ? Yes or No
You can't take any of his work as his customers remain loyal ? Yes or No
Surely that backs up my survey that reliablility is what's important to people ?
In the early days of cleaning when I canvassed I got many people not use me, they had a cleaner, most looked like they did a terrible job, one didn't even clean above head height so the top half of the windows were never cleaned this wound me up because I knew I could do better, so I asked one of these people why stick with someone who didn't clean a whole window, the answer was this
" George has been coming for years, he comes every month, it maybe a bad clean, but tries his best and a least I know I get a regular service, you new guys do one or two cleans and are never seen again "
So quality and price have no bearing on this sort of customer
Darran
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KS - I don't think calling others condescending really helped the thread do you? The perfectly reasonable example given about people not using a window cleaner solely on price was in my opinion reasonable, not silly. The post wasn't even aimed at you, your replies struck me as inflammatory rather than participating in what was an interesting thread.
Sean - struggling to see your point, so the windy in question does rubbish work ? Yes or No
The cleaner in question charges more than you ? Yes or No
You can't take any of his work as his customers remain loyal ? Yes or No
Surely that backs up my survey that reliablility is what's important to people ?
In the early days of cleaning when I canvassed I got many people not use me, they had a cleaner, most looked like they did a terrible job, one didn't even clean above head height so the top half of the windows were never cleaned this wound me up because I knew I could do better, so I asked one of these people why stick with someone who didn't clean a whole window, the answer was this
" George has been coming for years, he comes every month, it maybe a bad clean, but tries his best and a least I know I get a regular service, you new guys do one or two cleans and are never seen again "
So quality and price have no bearing on this sort of customer
Darran
Right, for a start my first post on this thread was to say that I myself would happily pay a franchise fee and royalties if the prices mentioned (£27.00 :o) were achievable in my area. Is this inflammatory or not participating? I agree that people won't choose a window cleaner solely on price. The part I didn't agree with and voiced my opinion on was the bit about not buying the cheapest car ( opinions are allowed aye?) as I didn't believe it had much relevance, so I decided to make a comment which the poster took offence to, he then tried to belittle me by putting full stops after each word. If. someone. replied. to. you. like. this. wouldn't you find it condescending? As for the post not being aimed at me, It's an open forum is it not?
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KS - I don't think calling others condescending really helped the thread do you? The perfectly reasonable example given about people not using a window cleaner solely on price was in my opinion reasonable, not silly. The post wasn't even aimed at you, your replies struck me as inflammatory rather than participating in what was an interesting thread.
Sean - struggling to see your point, so the windy in question does rubbish work ? Yes or No
The cleaner in question charges more than you ? Yes or No
You can't take any of his work as his customers remain loyal ? Yes or No
Surely that backs up my survey that reliablility is what's important to people ?
In the early days of cleaning when I canvassed I got many people not use me, they had a cleaner, most looked like they did a terrible job, one didn't even clean above head height so the top half of the windows were never cleaned this wound me up because I knew I could do better, so I asked one of these people why stick with someone who didn't clean a whole window, the answer was this
" George has been coming for years, he comes every month, it maybe a bad clean, but tries his best and a least I know I get a regular service, you new guys do one or two cleans and are never seen again "
So quality and price have no bearing on this sort of customer
Darran
Right, for a start my first post on this thread was to say that I myself would happily pay a franchise fee and royalties if the prices mentioned (£27.00 :o) were achievable in my area. Is this inflammatory or not participating? I agree that people won't choose a window cleaner solely on price. The part I didn't agree with and voiced my opinion on was the bit about not buying the cheapest car ( opinions are allowed aye?) as I didn't believe it had much relevance, so I decided to make a comment which the poster took offence to, he then tried to belittle me by putting full stops after each word. If. someone. replied. to. you. like. this. wouldn't you find it condescending? As for the post not being aimed at me, It's an open forum is it not?
KS, he read the last few posts on the subject and decided to have a rant without knowing the facts and how they came about, unfortunately he isn't man enough to admit this.
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KS - I don't think calling others condescending really helped the thread do you? The perfectly reasonable example given about people not using a window cleaner solely on price was in my opinion reasonable, not silly. The post wasn't even aimed at you, your replies struck me as inflammatory rather than participating in what was an interesting thread.
Sean - struggling to see your point, so the windy in question does rubbish work ? Yes or No
The cleaner in question charges more than you ? Yes or No
You can't take any of his work as his customers remain loyal ? Yes or No
Surely that backs up my survey that reliablility is what's important to people ?
In the early days of cleaning when I canvassed I got many people not use me, they had a cleaner, most looked like they did a terrible job, one didn't even clean above head height so the top half of the windows were never cleaned this wound me up because I knew I could do better, so I asked one of these people why stick with someone who didn't clean a whole window, the answer was this
" George has been coming for years, he comes every month, it maybe a bad clean, but tries his best and a least I know I get a regular service, you new guys do one or two cleans and are never seen again "
So quality and price have no bearing on this sort of customer
Darran
Right, for a start my first post on this thread was to say that I myself would happily pay a franchise fee and royalties if the prices mentioned (£27.00 :o) were achievable in my area. Is this inflammatory or not participating? I agree that people won't choose a window cleaner solely on price. The part I didn't agree with and voiced my opinion on was the bit about not buying the cheapest car ( opinions are allowed aye?) as I didn't believe it had much relevance, so I decided to make a comment which the poster took offence to, he then tried to belittle me by putting full stops after each word. If. someone. replied. to. you. like. this. wouldn't you find it condescending? As for the post not being aimed at me, It's an open forum is it not?
KS, he read the last few posts on the subject and decided to have a rant without knowing the facts and how they came about, unfortunately he isn't man enough to admit this.
Aye it would seem that way Sean, some people like to think they're judge and jury