Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dazmond on September 29, 2014, 10:43:01 am
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1411983757_IMAG0423.jpg)
spring/summer set up
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1411983893_IMAG0646.jpg)
autumn/winter set up ;)
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1411984023_IMAG0647.jpg)
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1411984066_IMAG0649.jpg)
everything fits in just nicely.nice and secure! :)
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1411984369_IMAG0624.jpg)
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1411984659_IMAG0631.jpg)
piece of MDF out of girlfriends garage,cut to size.screwed in tight to side of van at the top.cable tied at the bottom.heatshield fixed to MDF then heater fixed on top.plumbed in everything,swapped hose and reel for heavy duty redashe reel and 90m thermobore plus.
fitted a wooden board on van floor,stapled some rubber mats to it and made a makeshift reel stay from a few blocks of wood.cable tied reel to side of van to stop it falling over as its heavy and narrow! ;D
stripped extreme 25 down.flushed it out with water and retaped the clamping sections on 1 and 2.replaced hose with red aqua-daptor hot hose.
used a few bungee cords near the top of my tank to stop my storage boxes(clean cloths/spare brushes/goosenecks from falling off while driving.
cleaned van and girlfriends car with hot and a few of her windows.adjusted calibration on controller.the pump shuts off within 10 seconds when turned off at brush end now.happy with that!
good sunday afternoons work! :)
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Nice one daz.
Do you think the heat from the top exhaust will be ok and not damage too of your van?
I'm thinking of venting mine similar.
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itll be fine jonny.plenty of clearance at the top of heater.i leave one back door open anyway as i never take reel out of the van.easy to change gas bottles as well as its right near the side door.easy for grabbing a clean cloth,getting trad gear,swapping brushes and goosenecks etc.
also when moving from job to job i can also open the side door for a min to allow fumes out before i drive to my next job. ;)
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Cheers daz.
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Daz how are you getting on with that pole hose? I've got two Redashe reels with that hose which will go in my new van next year so not used it yet... I find the hot water pole hose coils quite a lot with cold and hot water.. What is the pole hose like?
Thanks.
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Sorry Daz I meant what is the reel hose like :)
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1412000869_IMAG0633.jpg)
thermobore plus hose.its brand new.absolute nightmare at the moment.hopefully itll settle down after a few weeks.it seems to be worse when warm! ::)roll
kinking and curling up all over the place! >:(
it feels like good quality hose.a bit heavier than standard microbore but hopefully itll be ok.i found that once i released the pressure out of it,it reeled in better.still a pain though!
time will tell!
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I don't understand why you would spend all that money on having your tank safely installed and then risk self installing that potential death trap water heater in your van???
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Did he ???
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I don't understand why you would spend all that money on having your tank safely installed and then risk self installing that potential death trap water heater in your van???
I'll stand to be corrected but them heaters are "plug and play" so to speak, ready to go for outdoor use. There's nothing "potential death trap" about it.
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I like the scrim it looks freshly washed
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I don't understand why you would spend all that money on having your tank safely installed and then risk self installing that potential death trap water heater in your van???
I'll stand to be corrected but them heaters are "plug and play" so to speak, ready to go for outdoor use. There's nothing "potential death trap" about it.
Ok here is why I think it could be a death trap:
It is for outdoor use.
Does he know how to correctly test for any gas leaks?
Does he know what safety devices the heater has and how to test that they are working correctly?
Does he know how to check the flame in the heater is burning correctly?
Does he know how to check if the regulator is working correctly and that the heater is getting the correct gas pressure?
Is the gas bottle secured safely? what happens if the van rolls over in an accident and hose becomes severed/detached from bottle?
Has he provided correct ventilation for lpg in a vehicle?
does he use a c0 detector is his van ? I would imagine not as it would probably be going off all the time.
Any one of these things could kill him.
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dont forget tyre pressures adjusted accordingly!!!
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I don't understand why you would spend all that money on having your tank safely installed and then risk self installing that potential death trap water heater in your van???
I'll stand to be corrected but them heaters are "plug and play" so to speak, ready to go for outdoor use. There's nothing "potential death trap" about it.
Ok here is why I think it could be a death trap:
It is for outdoor use.
Does he know how to correctly test for any gas leaks?
Does he know what safety devices the heater has and how to test that they are working correctly?
Does he know how to check the flame in the heater is burning correctly?
Does he know how to check if the regulator is working correctly and that the heater is getting the correct gas pressure?
Is the gas bottle secured safely? what happens if the van rolls over in an accident and hose becomes severed/detached from bottle?
Has he provided correct ventilation for lpg in a vehicle?
does he use a c0 detector is his van ? I would imagine not as it would probably be going off all the time.
Any one of these things could kill him.
Your right.
I hear every other day of caravan users getting blown up, or gassed to death.
They should be outlawed.
???
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Jonny 87 the reason why you don't hear everyday of caravan users having problems is that the correct appliance will have been fitted by a person who is trained and they have them serviced for their annual safety certificate.
That heater is not the right heater for the job, a flueless heater like that will have a safety cut off switch so after 20 minutes of use it will go out, this is to prevent dangerous amounts of carbon monoxide building up. If it doesn't cut out it means a safety device has been tampered with.
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that heater is going to fill the van up with potentially deadly fumes, its meant to be used outdoors, you need to get one fitted correctly with a flue
If you was to post them pictures on a gas engineers forum they would all tear you a new one dazmond
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That reel hose looks like a nightmare!
Check the for sale section soon there will be two brand new 100m mini bore Gardiner hot water hoses for sale! :-\
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I think you guys need read the instruction manuals on these heaters.
They say to use outside OR IN A WELL VENTILATED AREA.
A van with a sealed bulkhead or back doors open is very well ventilated.
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I think you guys need read the instruction manuals on these heaters.
They say to use outside OR IN A WELL VENTILATED AREA.
A van with a sealed bulkhead or back doors open is very well ventilated.
If you are that confident that it is safe get a safety check done on it by a gas safe registered engineer and see if it gets signed of as safe it will probably cost £30-£40 and will prevent any incidents.This is for your own benefit!
Ps it is recommended gas appliances are checked yearly to ensure safe operation.
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I don't understand why you would spend all that money on having your tank safely installed and then risk self installing that potential death trap water heater in your van???
ptwt tank installation cost me £100! ;)local garage fitted it through van floor with spreader plates! ;D
i bought the heater from corwoods(NO 20 min cut off!)all plumbed in nice and tight and secure.
van door is left open any time heater will be on(which is all day every day until march!)
this what i did last year and im still alive! ;D ;D
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That reel hose looks like a nightmare!
Check the for sale section soon there will be two brand new 100m mini bore Gardiner hot water hoses for sale! :-\
dont be so hasty mate!itll get better with use im quite sure!most hose is a bit of a nightmare when brand new! ;)
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Dazmond glad your still alive, but just because it was ok last year doesn't mean it is this year. get it checked out by someone registered gas safe who will be able to tell you if it is safe.
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Ps it is recommended gas appliances are checked yearly to ensure safe operation.
Indeed,Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations 1998 (PUWER) make it an actual requirement that ALL your equipment is inspected and maintained . Not just your gas appliance.
Note: not a recomendation, an actual legal requirement. Thats everything, hoses, poles, controllers, ladders, batteries et al .....
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ptwt does that mean a qualified electrician should also be checking the electrics on the systems? you can smell gas, you can't see electrical faults.
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This year alone I've heard of about 5 window cleaners vans going up in flames because of electrical problems.
Not one yet with these LPG heaters.
Some people can't see the wood for the trees.
:)
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ptwt does that mean a qualified electrician should also be checking the electrics on the systems? you can smell gas, you can't see electrical faults.
Carbon monoxide is colourless oderless and tasteless, and is produced whenever there is a flame flues are designed to take harmfull products of combustion to where they are safe this heater is flueless.An flueless instantaneous water heater located in a compartment should have a 5 minute cut off to prevent dangerous levels of carbon monoxide building up in compartment.every year you hear of people being gassed by disposable bbq s because they use them indoors.
Also Lpg is heavier than air so vents should be provided at low level in case of a leak. And I believe an gas cylinder connected to a gas appliance in a vehicle must be in a purpose built enclosure.
I will rephrase what I said about dazmonds hot set up there are a lot of issues with it which while safe at the moment have potential to cause harm or a dangerous situation.
if you had any training to do with gas or had been in the vecinity of one of these cylinders exploding or seen the damage caused by it you would agree with what I'm saying. I can't advise on electrical maters as I have no knowledge of them so I get advice from those who do.
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Ps it is recommended gas appliances are checked yearly to ensure safe operation.
Indeed,Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations 1998 (PUWER) make it an actual requirement that ALL your equipment is inspected and maintained . Not just your gas appliance.
Note: not a recomendation, an actual legal requirement. Thats everything, hoses, poles, controllers, ladders, batteries et al .....
Can someone advise me where I can take my mop and squeegee for testing, its been neglected and over looked for the last year or so. I'm intending to start blading bottom windows so I think I should get it inspected by a certified squeegee inspector. Oh nearly forgot 2 x unger buckets and those wee green things for the end of the squeegee. :)
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The puwer regs state that equipment must be maintained in a safe condition , and inspected to ensure it his correctly installed and doesn't deteriorate .
Things like hand tools etc do not need a yearly inspection logged .
I do agree though that a gas boiler should be properly installed and checked every year , i have been knocked over by cylinders exploding and had a very lucky escape .
If you have a leak it will fill up the back of your van and a small spark can set it off , Thats why campers have them fitted in a separate locker with a vent in the bottom .
Personally i think diesel heating is the way to go if you really want hot .......expensive though unless your good at diy.
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Ladder needs inspecting and logged, as does your electrical equiptment. I never see this actually done though.
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I had a cylinder leak at the regulator - the thread was corroded in the cylinder head. I could just about smell the gas. Quite a worry really because in the back of my van at the time was my leisure battery with crocodile clips for connection. One spark from them and it could have got serious.
I use Extreme poles though - so i'd probably be ok.
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I had a cylinder leak at the regulator - the thread was corroded in the cylinder head. I could just about smell the gas. Quite a worry really because in the back of my van at the time was my leisure battery with crocodile clips for connection. One spark from them and it could have got serious.
I use Extreme poles though - so i'd probably be ok.
;D ;D ;D ;D
i always check the cylinder fittings when swapping gas bottles and a good quarter turn with a spanner after finger tightening.
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cant you just get some of the leak check spray to check all fittings if your concerned?
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Ladder needs inspecting and logged, as does your electrical equiptment. I never see this actually done though.
I thought that only applied to mains voltage equipment and not low voltage like we use .
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washing up liquid round the connections see if it bubbles, really though these are no more dangerous than a bbq
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washing up liquid round the connections see if it bubbles, really though these are no more dangerous than a bbq
In a way I agree with you when used correctly they are no more dangerous than a bbq, but every year people die from using bbqs in the wrong place like a in a tent. Outside a disposable bbqs carbon monoxide will be dispersed into the air but in a tent the carbon monoxide can build up.
These water heaters will require a minimum room size and are intended for short use only and not all day, add to that lack of proper maintenance and safety checks and they are risky.
Dave Willis has proved how easy it could be to miss a gas leak, when testing gas pipe i have seen situations where it failed and there was a leak but you could not smell gas and sometimes you will even struggle to find a leak with leak detection fluid.
People may mock me on here but that is due to their lack of knowledge meaning they fail to see the risks. But I guess "good old common sense"(eg it will be alright as long as I keep the doors open)is far more valuable than taking notice of regulations developed through knowledge and experience to prevent accidents happening.
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I think we need a list of things that could go wrong?
1) Gas leak
Remedy- check all pipe work and keep well ventilated.
2) carbon monoxide build up
Remedy- work with a sealed cab and keep well ventilated
3) some sort of malfunction causes flashback causing bottle to explode
Remedy- flashback arrestor inline.
The remedys all seem very simple to me?
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surely all you need do is turn the valve off on the bottle between jobs?
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Carbon alarm, mount it near the boiler job done!
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Get a gas safety check done by a registered engineer that's job done for the sake of £40
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and then what happens if one of the connections came loose, got knocked and a leak started? get a carbon sensor/alarm, Gas engineer will not sign it off as the gas bottle will have to be boxed in and securely fitted.
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I used to deliver CO2 to pubs etc by law they are to comply with various rules, one of which is a basic confined spaces risk assessment which costs around £50. I carried out only a handful of these and nobody pays any attention to the problems they can cause until they go wrong.
Identify the problems that may occur and prepare for them. Buying a new boiler would probably be cheaper than a annual service. Job done.
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and then what happens if one of the connections came loose, got knocked and a leak started? get a carbon sensor/alarm, Gas engineer will not sign it off as the gas bottle will have to be boxed in and securely fitted.
This is my point exactly read my first post there are many issues with his diy install which could easily become dangerous. People on here think it's ok if you leave the doors open and they can't smell any gas. As for the carbon alarm it would most likely go off when the boiler is in use. I wouldn't have signed something off like that when I was gas safe registered. It's amazing how people who earn so much per hour won't spend a bit of money to do things right.
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Daz how are you getting on with the reel hose? Oh and I hope you haven't gassed yourself.
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The way to fix that hose is to fully extend the hose and let hot water flow through before rolling it up onto the real. This will ensure a straight hose when in operation.
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and then what happens if one of the connections came loose, got knocked and a leak started? get a carbon sensor/alarm, Gas engineer will not sign it off as the gas bottle will have to be boxed in and securely fitted.
This is my point exactly read my first post there are many issues with his diy install which could easily become dangerous. People on here think it's ok if you leave the doors open and they can't smell any gas. As for the carbon alarm it would most likely go off when the boiler is in use. I wouldn't have signed something off like that when I was gas safe registered. It's amazing how people who earn so much per hour won't spend a bit of money to do things right.
To be fair ptwt, there are many people on ciu using these diy hot water systems, Dazmond has stuck his neck out by posting pictures of his set up on here.
You make valid points though and you obviously have a more in depth knowledge of gas appliances than the average window cleaner. These set ups are relatively cheap and so is a gas safety check.
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As for the carbon alarm it would most likely go off when the boiler is in use.
I dare say it would . It may also go off if the doors are open and the engine is running, i think a van pumps out around 3000 tonnes of Co2 a year. For this reason i always advocate closing your van doors when the engine is running, as Co2 is invisible and highly dangerous. And also wind your windows up when stationary in heavy traffic.
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Daz how are you getting on with the reel hose? Oh and I hope you haven't gassed yourself.
hi tom.no work due until friday!i think ill try slap dashs suggestion! :)
ive just put some lpg stickers on my van today!might even clean my own windows tomorrow! ;)
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I don't think there's too much risk with the van doors open but when they're closed the van could be classed as a confined space very quickly.
People don't realise how quickly you can be overcome by fumes.
I think hot water users should get their systems checked out by someone who knows what they're doing all this extra quarter of a turn on fittings is quite frankly not good enough.
In the meantime I'd turn the valve on the gas bottle off whenever the van doors are closed.
For me working with the doors shut would be a big no no which is a bit rubbish when your carrying expensive equipment.
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Wouldnt the simple soloution to this be mount the heater on the back doors and work with the door open? That way the fumes escape.
If its windy just wedge somthing to keep the door with the heater on half open.
And if its raining then its probs warm enough to just use cold water for the day.
Problem solved.
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Wouldnt the simple soloution to this be mount the heater on the back doors and work with the door open? That way the fumes escape.
If its windy just wedge somthing to keep the door with the heater on half open.
And if its raining then its probs warm enough to just use cold water for the day.
Problem solved.
it wouldnt work mate.last few days its been torrential rain at times and windy.hot water has been my only comfort.sod using cold until next spring!
plus having the heater inside keeps the back of the van warm! ;D ;D ;D
ive got my set up just how i want it.
when packing up i simply open the other van door and side door as im reeling in to let any remaining fumes escape ;)
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http://www.uk.airliquide.com/file/otherelement/pj/___l53496.pdf
This link covers what dazmond and others are doing , i would suggest most are breaking the law .
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http://www.uk.airliquide.com/file/otherelement/pj/___l53496.pdf
This link covers what dazmond and others are doing , i would suggest most are breaking the law .
It tells you the full carriage legislation requirements do NOT apply:
When dangerous goods are carried only in
cidentally to the enterprise’s main
activity such as a plumber
carrying propane on his way to a job or an engineer
taking refrigerant gas to repair a refr
igeration system. The total quantity of
dangerous goods must also be below the
threshold quantity de
scribed at the end.
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http://www.uk.airliquide.com/file/otherelement/pj/___l53496.pdf
This link covers what dazmond and others are doing , i would suggest most are breaking the law .
So basically aslong as you carry fire extinguishers and disconnect any cylinders while in transit it's fine to use these heaters then?
I kind of skipped over lots of jargon but that's basically what I took. Just like a plumber carrying a gas bottle to a job. We are "incidental" users.
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I've had my 2 heaters on the back doors for the past 3 years, never had any problems with wind or rain. I always work with the doors open as I don't do dodgy neighbourhoods and what is there to pinch? bucket squeegee & applicator, big deal. I never run about without turning the Gas off. I secured the gas bottle with a ratchet strap around the middle of it, perhaps it should have its own enclosure. What I don't have are the hazard stickers for the van, I'll get on to that.
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one 13kg gas bottle of propane is well below the threshold.this is all i carry so the regulations dont apply to me!incidental user.
i am going to get a fire extinguiser though.i already have LPG stickers on the van and turn the gas off between jobs. :)
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This year alone I've heard of about 5 window cleaners vans going up in flames because of electrical problems.
Not one yet with these LPG heaters.
Some people can't see the wood for the trees.
:)
Sound like you need to stop smoking in the van and licking the battery. :) 5 times in 1 year... LOL
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Answer these questions, would your insurance pay out if the worst should happen ?
If the worst should happen and somebody was seriously injured or killed would the judge not take into
consideration that the system was fitted by an unqualified person when coming to a judgement ?
Best scenario you get off and nothing happens, worst scenario you lose everything you have ever worked for
and spend some time in prison.
That's if your lucky enough to still have a life to ruin.
I cant see any financial benefit for me to use hot water but if the time comes that I do it will be a
professionally fitted and insurance passed system or nothing.
O.K. there will always be a certain risks when working with gas in a road vehicle but at least I will be protected
from any legal action that might come from an accident.
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This year alone I've heard of about 5 window cleaners vans going up in flames because of electrical problems.
Not one yet with these LPG heaters.
Some people can't see the wood for the trees.
:)
Sound like you need to stop smoking in the van and licking the battery. :) 5 times in 1 year... LOL
Whoooooooosh.
Lol
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Answer these questions, would your insurance pay out if the worst should happen ?
If the worst should happen and somebody was seriously injured or killed would the judge not take into
consideration that the system was fitted by an unqualified person when coming to a judgement ?
Best scenario you get off and nothing happens, worst scenario you lose everything you have ever worked for
and spend some time in prison.
That's if your lucky enough to still have a life to ruin.
I cant see any financial benefit for me to use hot water but if the time comes that I do it will be a
professionally fitted and insurance passed system or nothing.
O.K. there will always be a certain risks when working with gas in a road vehicle but at least I will be protected
from any legal action that might come from an accident.
drama queen!! ;D ;D ;D
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Stay in bed
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Answer these questions, would your insurance pay out if the worst should happen ?
If the worst should happen and somebody was seriously injured or killed would the judge not take into
consideration that the system was fitted by an unqualified person when coming to a judgement ?
Best scenario you get off and nothing happens, worst scenario you lose everything you have ever worked for
and spend some time in prison.
That's if your lucky enough to still have a life to ruin.
I cant see any financial benefit for me to use hot water but if the time comes that I do it will be a
professionally fitted and insurance passed system or nothing.
O.K. there will always be a certain risks when working with gas in a road vehicle but at least I will be protected
from any legal action that might come from an accident.
You missed out inserting "your loved ones" somewhere in that to give it its fullest impact.
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This is all a bit ott! when people have a bbq at home, with gas cylinders next to bbq, they may tell kiddie to keep away so as not to burn themselves. NOT incase there is a gas explosion!!!!
A properly connected gas bottle, with no leakage is safe for use imo, roofers etc use them all the time, carry them in their vans and never hear of their vans randomly exploding! Common sense prevails-keep van ventilated or flued while in use, turn gas off between jobs, and just enjoy the-albeit limited-benefits ;D