Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: matty72 on March 20, 2014, 09:48:30 pm
-
Gardiners, ok great products before you lot start shouting, how come clx poles run out so quickly, they are obviously popular, maybe its the suppliers i don't know, dare i say it maybe Gardiners needs someone to compete against them on the poles, a new company, not me i have to say, heres an idea, 100 of us window cleaners put in £50 to £100 pounds each a coop, put all are heads together and start a pole business, needs someone to lead it though that would obviously get a wage for doing so, competition is good after all just like in the window cleaning, who's going to do it then :)
-
you got my vote matt ;)
-
:o
-
lmao ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
china classics are taking over. :D wont get a cheaper carbon pole anywhere. :o
-
are you drunk?
-
have a look closely,most of the time the xtreme25 is out of stock, would you buy a clx instead?
-
I will do it, I will pm every one my bank
details and if you could all b/t the money
ASAP I will get started first thing.
Think the £100 each would be better ;D
-
There are several obvious flaws in that plan ::)roll and even more less obvious ones.
There are also other suppliers out there already. (but less popular). ;D
-
Crack on then. We're right behind you.
-
Gardiners, ok great products before you lot start shouting, how come clx poles run out so quickly, they are obviously popular, maybe its the suppliers i don't know, dare i say it maybe Gardiners needs someone to compete against them on the poles, a new company, not me i have to say, heres an idea, 100 of us window cleaners put in £50 to £100 pounds each a coop, put all are heads together and start a pole business, needs someone to lead it though that would obviously get a wage for doing so, competition is good after all just like in the window cleaning, who's going to do it then :)
How hard can it be to have poles made that are better than Gardiners' for less money?
I'm in. Where do I send my £100? Actually, I want two shares in the co-op: where do I send my £200? I'll send it just as soon as my transfer comes in from my Nigerian friend; I sent him £2,000 the other day and he's sending me $28,500,000. Will our return from your plan be as good as from my new friend?
Vin
-
China is getting my money very soon.
Some of the prices now of some poles are extreme in more ways than one.
-
to right they are .up the revolution thats what i say
-
There are plenty of other companies that Gardiners are in competition with. Most of them are a lot larger then Gardiners.
You see only one side. This forum is pro Gardiners. Go on another forum and they will be raging about Phoenix poles or some other thing.
So there is competition out there but we don't see it. We all should understand this as we are business men.
-
Gardiners, ok great products before you lot start shouting, how come clx poles run out so quickly, they are obviously popular, maybe its the suppliers i don't know, dare i say it maybe Gardiners needs someone to compete against them on the poles, a new company, not me i have to say, heres an idea, 100 of us window cleaners put in £50 to £100 pounds each a coop, put all are heads together and start a pole business, needs someone to lead it though that would obviously get a wage for doing so, competition is good after all just like in the window cleaning, who's going to do it then :)
I think you have vastly under estimated the time, money and effort a company such as Gardiners spend on designing, developing, producing and bringing a product to the market.
-
:'(
-
extreme 25 cost about £522 inc. dependant what goose. E I and brush you choose
Mine is three years old now still going strong, it's cost me to date £14.50 a month. It's my main tool it's generated a very good income
If I keep it another six months that would cost £13.05 a month
I say considering the time they put into development along with continually listening to feed back and changing product designs
It's an absolute bargain,
-
They probley come from china! But some people have found out how to cut the middle man out.
-
They probley come from china! But some people have found out how to cut the middle man out.
Very very true
-
I will do it, I will pm every one my bank
details and if you could all b/t the money
ASAP I will get started first thing.
Think the £100 each would be better ;D
You can have more than £100 from me. I'll donate that £5 million that some African bloke is going to put in my account.
-
They probley come from china! But some people have found out how to cut the middle man out.
I'll bet £100 that anyone who buys a pole directly from China (as some have on here) is not getting something that is the same as an extreme pole. Yes, they might be saving money but given that we all berate any window cleaner who sells just on price it seems rich to compare probably quite different poles on price alone.
So I suspect it's not just "cutting out the middle man" - it's buying something different for less, which is hardly remarkable.
What you're getting that is different for your smaller amount of money is a different, unknown, untested pole from a supplier whose quality control and design abilities are unknown to you with any guarantee presumably based upon shipping it back to China. As long as you know that's what you're getting there's no problem but, in my opinion, the cash savings don't outweight the risks. I'm sure that to some other people the saving's worth it, which is fine.
Vin
-
They probley come from china! But some people have found out how to cut the middle man out.
I'll bet £100 that anyone who buys a pole directly from China (as some have on here) is not getting something that is the same as an extreme pole. Yes, they might be saving money but given that we all berate any window cleaner who sells just on price it seems rich to compare probably quite different poles on price alone.
So I suspect it's not just "cutting out the middle man" - it's buying something different for less, which is hardly remarkable.
What you're getting that is different for your smaller amount of money is a different, unknown, untested pole from a supplier whose quality control and design abilities are unknown to you with any guarantee presumably based upon shipping it back to China. As long as you know that's what you're getting there's no problem but, in my opinion, the cash savings don't outweight the risks. I'm sure that to some other people the saving's worth it, which is fine.
Vin
I have never bought one direct, and never will i dont mind paying for gardiners.
Im just saying the majority of things are made in them kindof country's then someone ships over in bulk and makes a profit, so i imagine someone outside of England is making the poles for Gardiners:)
-
Its like having your glass cleaned by the local splash and dash or having all your frames cleaned along with your glass by the local well respected window cleaning company.
NO COMPARISON ! ;D
-
Buying something made in china (or wherever) and having something made in china (or wherever) are 2 totally different processes.
-
Anyway H2O shouldn't you have your eye patches on!!! ;D
-
I dont think your quite understanding.
These china poles people go on about could be massive over there like the gardiners in england?
My point is there is risks when ordering straight from china rather than going through a well known company such as gardiners.
I have not heard any bad stories of the poles which tells me they are probley made a similar way to Gardiners, however you have no comeback should there be a problem.
-
Anyway H2O shouldn't you have your eye patches on!!! ;D
Haha there not coming from boots there coming from china:( quality takes time😏
-
If they are all they are made out to be why has non of the big suppliers shipped some in?
I shouldn't have to tell you the answer.
-
I'll bet £100 that anyone who buys a pole directly from China (as some have on here) is not getting something that is the same as an extreme pole. Yes, they might be saving money but given that we all berate any window cleaner who sells just on price it seems rich to compare probably quite different poles on price alone.
So I suspect it's not just "cutting out the middle man" - it's buying something different for less, which is hardly remarkable.
What you're getting that is different for your smaller amount of money is a different, unknown, untested pole from a supplier whose quality control and design abilities are unknown to you with any guarantee presumably based upon shipping it back to China. As long as you know that's what you're getting there's no problem but, in my opinion, the cash savings don't outweight the risks. I'm sure that to some other people the saving's worth it, which is fine.
Vin
How do you know the cash savings don't outweigh the risks?
At approx £130 for an 18ft carbon fibre pole, I'm going to buy one and find out.
Possibly the reason that the big suppliers havn't shipped some in and sold them is that maybe there is much more profit to be made from them selling their own 'brand'.
The carbon fibre used by the big suppliers comes from somewhere and with bulk buying the price comes down and then it's simple machining processes, add clamps, stick the name on it and hey presto, you've a WFP pole from a big supplier.
-
This is my point.... The suppliers could be getting them shipped in! And they are the middle man making the profit.
-
What clamps are you going to stick on it? Have you do any R&D on which design is best?
Will the handle be insulated? That would be shocking if it hasn't! ;D
-
well.everyone has to make their money.good for gardiner. they don't just offer a product but also : customer service and if there is something wrong with the product you can always send it back! If you are a busy window cleaner you shouldn't resent investing in a good quality pole which is your main tool. Now if you'd sooner risk buying direct from china in order to spend less it's up to you but if anything goes wrong then you'll have to bite the bullet!!! not really worth the hassle!!
-
well.everyone has to make their money.good for gardiner. they don't just offer a product but also : customer service and if there is something wrong with the product you can always send it back! If you are a busy window cleaner you shouldn't resent investing in a good quality pole which is your main tool. Now if you'd sooner risk buying direct from china in order to spend less it's up to you but if anything goes wrong then you'll have to bite the bullet!!! not really worth the hassle!!
+1
-
What clamps are you going to stick on it? Have you do any R&D on which design is best?
Will the handle be insulated? That would be shocking if it hasn't! ;D
I'm simply going to buy one to find out. It's not a huge sum of money.
As for electrocution, around here there are no live over head wires to houses.
R & D. Do you really think these companies make their own carbon fibre? They buy, or get given, sample to stress test etc, which is hardly technical stuff. A lot of carbon fibre comes with data already supplied anyway and that just leaves the clamps which I admit, Gardiner's does seem to have done a lot of work on.
I do actually understand the risks of buying a pole from China. I do already have 2 Ionics poles and a Gardiners pole plus an old Bayerson plus 3 unused Harris poles.
The question of 'hassle', it's not a foregone conclusion that I will have 'hassle' and there's no 'biting the bullet'. I'm buying a pole to find out if it's any good.
I'm not knocking Gardiners at all. The quality of service is second to none and the quality of products is high, but there again, so is the price.
-
Gardiners massive in England? ???
-
I'll bet £100 that anyone who buys a pole directly from China (as some have on here) is not getting something that is the same as an extreme pole. Yes, they might be saving money but given that we all berate any window cleaner who sells just on price it seems rich to compare probably quite different poles on price alone.
So I suspect it's not just "cutting out the middle man" - it's buying something different for less, which is hardly remarkable.
What you're getting that is different for your smaller amount of money is a different, unknown, untested pole from a supplier whose quality control and design abilities are unknown to you with any guarantee presumably based upon shipping it back to China. As long as you know that's what you're getting there's no problem but, in my opinion, the cash savings don't outweight the risks. I'm sure that to some other people the saving's worth it, which is fine.
Vin
How do you know the cash savings don't outweigh the risks?
I don't. That's why I said "in my opinion". I also said "I'm sure that to some other people the saving's worth it, which is fine."
How much more equivocal do you think I could be?
Vin
-
I don't. That's why I said "in my opinion". I also said "I'm sure that to some other people the saving's worth it, which is fine."
How much more equivocal do you think I could be?
Vin
I didn't mean to sound pedantic and I'm sorry if it read that way.
Rather, on what basis have you come to have that opinion?
I only ask because sometimes people have valid reasons for an opinion which they don't always say.
-
Successful capitalism is based upon doing what you do best. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage
I clean windows best out of all the things I do. Alex providing poles is the best out of what he does.
I could spend time finding poles, researching them, ordering them and dealing with any problems but that time is better spent in cleaning windows to pay Alex (or whomever) to do all that for me. He's better at it to the extent that I believe that I get a better result for my time if I clean windows for money (I'm good at that) and pay for his expertise in sourcing, building and shipping poles (which he's much better at than I ever will be)
There comes a point when you just have to buy things. That point is to some extent arbitrary (to be daft, why aren't you buying carbon fibre and making it up into poles to cut out the Chinese manufacturer's profit? And if you chose to do that, why aren't you making the carbon fibre, and so on until you're drilling for oil) but for me it's after Alex. For others, like you, clearly not.
So mine's what I consider to be a perfectly rational cut-off point where I can spend my time cleaning windows and growing my business. For the same reason, I don't DIY my van system and why I pay for professional round management software.
Vin
-
Crickey.
I spent less than 5 minutes in total looking at and deciding to buy a pole from China. Just out of curiosity. It then took one quick email, 2 minutes, and pressing the send button, 2 seconds, reading the reply, 10 seconds, and ordering, 2 minutes. You could hardly call that 'spending time'. Some mornings I spend longer having a dump. Maybe I should spend less time having a dump and grow my business in the time I've saved.
It ain't no big shakes, it ain't no huge decision and I don't understand what's the big deal. In fact, I don't know why I am defending my decision.
If the pole I have bough turns out to be naff, then I've wasted my money. Simples eh? Don't take much working out does it? If it's a perfectly good pole then I've got a perfectly good pole..... der.....
Is it that to some on this forum buying anything other than Gardiners is beyond comprehension and that anyone who dares to do so is somehow stupid and daft and a CIU traitor?
So how did my decision to buy a pole from China go to not DIY fitting a van and having 'professional round management software'? Is there a hidden connection I am missing?
Jeepers.
To quote the phrase, in terms of this topic, I'm out. I can't be bothered to further argue the silly points being made.
-
Crickey.
I spent less than 5 minutes in total looking at and deciding to buy a pole from China. Just out of curiosity. It then took one quick email, 2 minutes, and pressing the send button, 2 seconds, reading the reply, 10 seconds, and ordering, 2 minutes. You could hardly call that 'spending time'. Some mornings I spend longer having a dump. Maybe I should spend less time having a dump and grow my business in the time I've saved.
It ain't no big shakes, it ain't no huge decision and I don't understand what's the big deal. In fact, I don't know why I am defending my decision.
If the pole I have bough turns out to be naff, then I've wasted my money. Simples eh? Don't take much working out does it? If it's a perfectly good pole then I've got a perfectly good pole..... der.....
Is it that to some on this forum buying anything other than Gardiners is beyond comprehension and that anyone who dares to do so is somehow stupid and daft and a CIU traitor?
So how did my decision to buy a pole from China go to not DIY fitting a van and having 'professional round management software'? Is there a hidden connection I am missing?
Jeepers.
To quote the phrase, in terms of this topic, I'm out. I can't be bothered to further argue the silly points being made.
Dont worry Ross me old mucka there will be always be some who need
to justify themselves and the decisions they make by critising the decisions
and choices made by others if they differ from there own ;)
-
Hey guy's save your money..
Buy an awesome BRODEX Alloy Pole.
You can have arms like the world strongest man and if you replace the claps 50 times it will last till you drop down from the heart attack.
Anyway How light is the Gardiner clx compared to the alloy crap from that company named above?
I have a wonderful pole in grey that reaches 42ft made by some idiot as the bottom pole must be 15 inches around.
Talk about design.
I have come a long way since my yellow universal 18ft pole back nearly a decade ago it seems.
I have used many different poles but since finding oops dare I say it Alex's poles I have not really looked for another company until this year.
I am still not sure whether I should try one pole from x-line or not they claim they are the best pole on the market but I could say i am the best window cleaner in the UK, I am not I know although I try my best and hope thats good enough for all my customers.
China is a place where manufacture is done in billions. Cheap is not usually a good sign.
anyone bought a chinese car they make them too.
think they make a mini type and an x5 type vehicle neither are good.
-
Crickey.
I spent less than 5 minutes in total looking at and deciding to buy a pole from China. Just out of curiosity. It then took one quick email, 2 minutes, and pressing the send button, 2 seconds, reading the reply, 10 seconds, and ordering, 2 minutes. You could hardly call that 'spending time'. Some mornings I spend longer having a dump. Maybe I should spend less time having a dump and grow my business in the time I've saved.
It ain't no big shakes, it ain't no huge decision and I don't understand what's the big deal. In fact, I don't know why I am defending my decision.
If the pole I have bough turns out to be naff, then I've wasted my money. Simples eh? Don't take much working out does it? If it's a perfectly good pole then I've got a perfectly good pole..... der.....
Is it that to some on this forum buying anything other than Gardiners is beyond comprehension and that anyone who dares to do so is somehow stupid and daft and a CIU traitor?
So how did my decision to buy a pole from China go to not DIY fitting a van and having 'professional round management software'? Is there a hidden connection I am missing?
Jeepers.
To quote the phrase, in terms of this topic, I'm out. I can't be bothered to further argue the silly points being made.
Ross,
I don't know why you're so angry. All I've said, repeatedly, is that it's not the decision for me. You asked me why and I told you. Again, I said it's not for me but for others it might be fine. You seem to be overreacting somewhat. I didn't make any implication whatsoever about what you do.
You don't have to defend your decision but remember that you DID ask me. I spent quite a lot of time coming up with an answer about why I wouldn't do it; not a word in there about you so your getting all offended seems unfair. The comments about DIY systems were to illustrate why I do what I do (which is, I hope you'll agree, the question you asked). You seem to be violently defending a position that I haven't attacked.
Vin
-
Funny old subject this. I don't always buy the cheapest - don't know why exactly.
I've just fitted some new reel hose - wasn't the cheapest I could get and I replaced it because the last lot wasn't that brilliant, bought a new tap and connector. Ordered from my favorite supplier.
I suppose it's because I know it's next day delivery and any problems will be easily sorted.
Poles? I could save a fair bit I suppose but the money becomes less important than the quality.
I think if a supplier looks after you over the years then they deserve a bit of loyalty.
Same as our business - we are very quick to moan if we get undercut but it happens from time to time and we hate it when customers don't remain loyal.
-
^^^^^^^
What he said.
I have seen me pay more not just for a similar product but for the exact same part. Why? For a few different reasons. It may be more convenient (one should always account for the buggeration factor), it may be that I am reliant on the supplier's expertise. It may be for the customer service. It may just be that the cheaper supplier is a bit of a fud.
-
Hey guy's save your money..
Buy an awesome BRODEX Alloy Pole.
You can have arms like the world strongest man and if you replace the claps 50 times it will last till you drop down from the heart attack.
Anyway How light is the Gardiner clx compared to the alloy crap from that company named above?
I have a wonderful pole in grey that reaches 42ft made by some idiot as the bottom pole must be 15 inches around.
Talk about design.
I have come a long way since my yellow universal 18ft pole back nearly a decade ago it seems.
I have used many different poles but since finding oops dare I say it Alex's poles I have not really looked for another company until this year.
I am still not sure whether I should try one pole from x-line or not they claim they are the best pole on the market but I could say i am the best window cleaner in the UK, I am not I know although I try my best and hope thats good enough for all my customers.
China is a place where manufacture is done in billions. Cheap is not usually a good sign.
anyone bought a chinese car they make them too.
think they make a mini type and an x5 type vehicle neither are good.
I'm glad you admitted that, everybody knows that I'm the best window cleaner in the U.K.
Which does prove a point as I have no Chinese in my family tree. ;D
-
Successful capitalism is based upon doing what you do best. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage
I clean windows best out of all the things I do. Alex providing poles is the best out of what he does.
I could spend time finding poles, researching them, ordering them and dealing with any problems but that time is better spent in cleaning windows to pay Alex (or whomever) to do all that for me. He's better at it to the extent that I believe that I get a better result for my time if I clean windows for money (I'm good at that) and pay for his expertise in sourcing, building and shipping poles (which he's much better at than I ever will be)
There comes a point when you just have to buy things. That point is to some extent arbitrary (to be daft, why aren't you buying carbon fibre and making it up into poles to cut out the Chinese manufacturer's profit? And if you chose to do that, why aren't you making the carbon fibre, and so on until you're drilling for oil) but for me it's after Alex. For others, like you, clearly not.
So mine's what I consider to be a perfectly rational cut-off point where I can spend my time cleaning windows and growing my business. For the same reason, I don't DIY my van system and why I pay for professional round management software.
Vin
I agree with this. Window cleaning is the core of our business and is what makes us money and provides us with a livelyhood. Buying a product a bit cheaper maybe saving you money, but it isn't making you money.
You have to make money before you can save it. If you spend too much time actioning the savings, then the earnings will suffer.
Yes, reducing costs is an important part of each business owner. If a carbon fibre pole was costing £1500 and an imported chinese unit was costing £250 then I could see the reasons for trying an import. But with lower cost differentials I personally don't see the reason to trying them.
The case I'm thinking of is the Aquadaptor poles. We all read the saga a couple of months ago and that Steven has had to re-engineer the clamps which he found were not very good. I would hate to spend money on an import and find I had one of those ploes with not very good clamps.
There was a chap who put some CB fibre poles he bought from China on ebay and didn't sell one of them from the feedback he got. They were cheaper than the Gardiner equivilants but had those unsatisfactory clamps.
-
Surely Gardiners are saving us money by devising clamps that dont need replacing thus we get to keep our poles longer; instead of putting up with spinning poles that we tire of and replace?
-
I agree on that one
-
Ross, I always take longer than that to have a dump ;D
-
Surely Gardiners are saving us money by devising clamps that dont need replacing thus we get to keep our poles longer; instead of putting up with spinning poles that we tire of and replace?
Plus one on that - I almost replaced my 2008 and 2010 purchased Gardiner poles, earlier this year but the new clamps have allowed me to put off that decision indefinitely.
-
To get back to the original poster's comment; How do you know how much stock to order? How do you ensure that you order just enough for demand but not to over stock as that's capital tied up which could 'sink' your business financially (cashflow)?
Because a supplier doesn't have a crystal ball, the only thing they can refer back to is past sales history when planning future orders. They also have to take into consideration manufacturing time delays, assembly time and delivery time. Because this isn't all done inhouse, he has to rely on suppliers and their schedules for other customers of theirs. So in my experience with parts planning, I would imagine that Gardiners will be planning assembly orders already for sales of poles toward the end of this year and into 2015. His weave of carbon is to his stipulation and will have to be made especially for him, so the manufacturer will want a forward ordering plan 6 to 9 months in advance so he can plan his manufacturing production.
Does that mean that future sales are guaranteed by past sales? No.
Why have you left your buying of a new pole until you had to have one? In most instances you can project when you think you will need a new pole. It isn't very difficult to order something a little ahead of time when stocks are available and 'store' it until its needed. We have done this before.
-
Surely Gardiners are saving us money by devising clamps that dont need replacing thus we get to keep our poles longer; instead of putting up with spinning poles that we tire of and replace?
Plus one on that - I almost replaced my 2008 and 2010 purchased Gardiner poles, earlier this year but the new clamps have allowed me to put off that decision indefinitely.
This is such a good post by both of you.
Sometimes I wonder how many of these posts start off as windups.
-
''are gardiners trying to force us to buymore expensive poles''
No. They offer goods for sale in an open market.
Buy or don't buy.
-
Are Gardiners trying to force us to buy more expensive poles?
No. I've just checked a receipt I have for an SLX-25 purchased in February 2012 and it cost £245 plus vat.
An SLX-25 on Gardiners website today is £238 plus vat and you get a free brush!
So in real terms a Gardiners SLX-25 and brush is cheaper to purchase today than it was more than 2 years ago.
Hope that answers the question. ;)
-
Had my 2x China classics since September 2013
45ft
And 18ft
No problem