Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: robertphil on March 18, 2014, 07:18:06 pm

Title: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: robertphil on March 18, 2014, 07:18:06 pm
 

last week i got a 5 day ban for "telling it as it is" of a run in i had with an  injun [no disrespect in using  that term  , its a term covering folk from many countries of that region,what would u prefer "ethnic? ]
Anyway what i wrote was that she was a whole lot of time wasting  trouble.  in writing that i was informing other trade members to be alert to potential problems

  if i read something  window cleaning related about anybody /or of a faulty product/ dickey van story / i store it in my noggin  and thats what i love about forums , its the insider gossip  that you just cant buy.
 
Sure ,anybodys view might be considered bias , but its still of value  to the members  and can be ignored if it doesnt apply

lets not hold back on info  for fear of  insult/ban when info really does benefit all members

maybe i will be banned again now , or challenged off air .  who knows

 
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: 8weekly on March 18, 2014, 07:20:39 pm
Were you warning us of that particular "injun" or all of them?
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: C o z y on March 18, 2014, 07:24:30 pm
I think the ban would be because of you generalizing a race of people mate. I do it without thinking sometimes. It's like saying all ex Signals are uphill gardeners, like Hector. Or that all flatheaded mongs that support Man Utd all look like ARCHER. You're just asking for trouble. HTH.
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: robertphil on March 18, 2014, 07:26:59 pm
Were you warning us of that particular "injun" or all of them?

iv been in business 6 years now and have probably had about 20-30 diffrent injun households on my books in that time

iv still got about 2  so i cant be considered a proper racist

Every single one has been trouble , disagreeable personalities .

BY CONTRAST-old carribean are lovely  , charming, tip-every- time types - id reccommend highly


 
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: C o z y on March 18, 2014, 07:31:03 pm
Haah, you're still the same. I'm married to a Man Utd fan, but still think most are flatheded baldy mongs who eat leftovers from chip shops and drag their knuckles on the ground when going to collect their JSA.
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: robertphil on March 18, 2014, 07:38:25 pm
 thing is , how many do i have to try out to be able to say im not biased against them

100 ?  500 ?  what if every single one was the same when it came to the crunch when dealing with a window cleaning outfit .  
 as i say ,iv had loads of happy carribean , germans too- oh yes  [fussy yes ,but fair]
 french - not so good   but you wont get banned for dissin them

 
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: SeanK on March 18, 2014, 07:46:04 pm
What you have to understand is this forum has to pay the bills just like any other.
So even a hint of allowing racist views or comments could put off advertisers or ruin its
reputation.
You might have a valid point but this forum is a business and will always put business needs before
members.
You cant really blame them we would all do the same.
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: G Griffin on March 18, 2014, 07:47:17 pm
Why does an issue with a customer become an issue with an Indian customer? If you'd just left it at that you might have got away with it but you were implying she was a problem because she was Indian. Not a problem and Indian. And you did it in an offensive way.
You might not have meant it to be offensive but ignorance is often no excuse.
And I mean that in a good way, Bobby.
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: deeege on March 18, 2014, 07:47:43 pm
Were you warning us of that particular "injun" or all of them?

iv been in business 6 years now and have probably had about 20-30 diffrent injun households on my books in that time

iv still got about 2  so i cant be considered a proper racist

Every single one has been trouble , disagreeable personalities .

BY CONTRAST-old carribean are lovely  , charming, tip-every- time types - id reccommend highly


I'm still trying to figure out whether you are constantly on the wind up or you really believe some of the drivel that you post?
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: Clever Forum Name on March 18, 2014, 07:50:50 pm
Reminds me of "that chap" on a night out.

His racist joke always starts.

"i am not racist.....but"
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: Perfect Windows on March 18, 2014, 07:52:36 pm
I would have thought that the problem might be in the use of "Indian".

If you were implying that the behaviour of one of your customers was typical of a race of people then by the Oxford dictionary definition, that is racism ( The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race ).  This, from your post above, seems to be what you are saying explicitly, i.e. that "every single one has been trouble".

If you were telling a story in which the fact that the protagonist was "Indian" was core to the story, then I'd argue that it wasn't racist.  So, "my customer asked me if I wanted a cup of tea today and when it came it tasted of cardomam (then again he's Indian, so I should have expected it)".

My experience is that some Asian customers are trouble and some are wonderful.  My experience is also that some British customers are trouble and some are wonderful.  It's intriguing that, to the best of my knowledge, I haven't read a single post from you beginning "Today one of my white customers..."

Vin
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: robertphil on March 18, 2014, 07:57:23 pm
ok, lets throw it up in the air and see where it lands

  iv bought  five CLX poles for my gang and iv found every one has a hair line crack. .Alex refuses to take my calls .  

but you think hes lovely

 youd still want to know my side- wouldnt you ?


 [note- i havnt bought any poles]
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: PoleKing on March 18, 2014, 07:57:58 pm
I would have thought that the problem might be in the use of "Indian".

If you were implying that the behaviour of one of your customers was typical of a race of people then by the Oxford dictionary definition, that is racism ( The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race ).  This, from your post above, seems to be what you are saying explicitly, i.e. that "every single one has been trouble".

If you were telling a story in which the fact that the protagonist was "Indian" was core to the story, then I'd argue that it wasn't racist.  So, my customer asked me if I wanted a cup of tea today and when it came it tasted of cardomam (then again he's Indian, so I should have expected it).

My experience is that some Asian customers are trouble and some are wonderful.  My experience is also that some British customers are trouble and some are wonderful.  It's intriguing that, to the best of my knowledge, I haven't read a single post from you beginning "Today one of my white customers..."

Vin

Could it be that we assume most of the people we discuss are white?
Therefore not feeling the need to say 'he was white...'
Same as gays & straights. No-one ever says 'the straight lad...' But may say '...the gay lad that...
To a degree perhaps we are all biased...a bit.
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: PoleKing on March 18, 2014, 07:58:41 pm
ok, lets throw it up in the air and see where it lands

  iv bought  five CLX poles for my gang and iv found every one has a hair line crack. .Alex refuses to take my calls .  

but you think hes lovely

 youd still want to know my side- wouldnt you ?


 [note- i havnt bought any poles]

Bit of a waste bobby, aren't all your lads trad?  ;D
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: Perfect Windows on March 18, 2014, 07:59:45 pm
ok, lets throw it up in the air and see where it lands

  iv bought  five CLX poles for my gang and iv found every one has a hair line crack. .Alex refuses to take my calls .  

but you think hes lovely

 youd still want to know my side- wouldnt you ?


 [note- i havnt bought any poles]

COMPLETELY different.

"A white guy has sold me five poles and they all have cracks.  That's just typical of white people. They are all the same, those whiteys.  They take your money then ignore your calls.  Every single one of them is out to rip you off like that"

That's closer to what you're saying.

Vin
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: Perfect Windows on March 18, 2014, 08:01:31 pm
I would have thought that the problem might be in the use of "Indian".

If you were implying that the behaviour of one of your customers was typical of a race of people then by the Oxford dictionary definition, that is racism ( The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race ).  This, from your post above, seems to be what you are saying explicitly, i.e. that "every single one has been trouble".

If you were telling a story in which the fact that the protagonist was "Indian" was core to the story, then I'd argue that it wasn't racist.  So, my customer asked me if I wanted a cup of tea today and when it came it tasted of cardomam (then again he's Indian, so I should have expected it).

My experience is that some Asian customers are trouble and some are wonderful.  My experience is also that some British customers are trouble and some are wonderful.  It's intriguing that, to the best of my knowledge, I haven't read a single post from you beginning "Today one of my white customers..."

Vin

Could it be that we assume most of the people we discuss are white?
Therefore not feeling the need to say 'he was white...'
Same as gays & straights. No-one ever says 'the straight lad...' But may say '...the gay lad that...
To a degree perhaps we are all biased...a bit.

I'd argue that the whiteliness, gayfulness or straightingliness of the person is irrelevant rather than assumed.

Vin
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on March 18, 2014, 08:05:09 pm
I'm not racist but do dislike Geordie Japs!
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: Don Kee on March 18, 2014, 08:05:43 pm
I think you'll find 'injun' was originally a term used in America to describe the Natives so how you've figured it now covers asians/indians/pakistanis etc is elluding me?

Funny thing is when people describe a bad customer they dont put on here 'i had a white person today that was a total arse' in fact no reference to there background or skin colour will get made...
But your on here kicking off because you didnt like the fact someone wasnt happy you've stereotyped a whole nationality (although i'd imagine you dont actually even KNOW where there from)

I've met muppets from all cultures, doesnt mean there whole race is the same....
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: TomCrowther on March 18, 2014, 08:05:50 pm
Is this a genuine post?
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: robertphil on March 18, 2014, 08:24:58 pm
I think you'll find 'injun' was originally a term used in America to describe the Natives so how you've figured it now covers asians/indians/pakistanis etc is elluding me?

 (although i'd imagine you dont actually even KNOW where there from)


  well   nobody uses the word "ethnic"  unless  describing a rug ,so what word would you use ?
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: Carl2009 on March 18, 2014, 08:28:14 pm

Funny thing is when people describe a bad customer they dont put on here 'i had a white person today that was a total arse' in fact no reference to there background or skin colour will get made... But your on here kicking off because you didnt like the fact someone wasnt happy you've stereotyped a whole nationality (although i'd imagine you dont actually even KNOW where there from)
I've met muppets from all cultures, doesnt mean there whole race is the same....

+1

I'd suggest, robertphil, that if you've had problems with 20 or 30 Asian households then you are the problem, not the custies. Just a thought.
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: Carl2009 on March 18, 2014, 08:30:54 pm
I think you'll find 'injun' was originally a term used in America to describe the Natives so how you've figured it now covers asians/indians/pakistanis etc is elluding me?

 (although i'd imagine you dont actually even KNOW where there from)


  well   nobody uses the word "ethnic"  unless  describing a rug ,so what word would you use ?

Take your pick - Asian or Indian, Bangladeshi, Pakistani, Sri Lankan if you know their nationality. "Injun" is perjorative.
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: G Griffin on March 18, 2014, 08:38:33 pm
It's like the use of the word 'them'. Not only are you talking about a race of people in a generalising way, you're also implying that 'they' are different to 'us (?)'.
That's where problems start. You are pre-judging someone, putting 'problems' down to their race or both.
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: Don Kee on March 18, 2014, 08:42:26 pm
I think you'll find 'injun' was originally a term used in America to describe the Natives so how you've figured it now covers asians/indians/pakistanis etc is elluding me?

 (although i'd imagine you dont actually even KNOW where there from)


 well   nobody uses the word "ethnic"  unless  describing a rug ,so what word would you use ?


Eh??
Ok you dont want to use 'ethnic', but you're using a word that is used to describe people on the total opposite side of the world to the people you mean.
'Injun' used in the wild west mate, to describe Native indians....you've got the wrong indians....

Collins
World English Dictionary
Injun  (ˈɪndʒən)
 
— n
1.   ( US ) an informal or dialect word for (American) Indian
2.   slang  ( interjection ) honest Injun  genuinely; really

Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition
2009 © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009
Cite This Source



Plenty of other words, Asian, Pakistani, Indian.....(carl2009 has named a few) but if you're going to try and be clever and stereotype, at least use the right terminology...
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: robertphil on March 18, 2014, 08:47:33 pm
 


whatabout that bloke who commented he had a few  round in east london 1 was chock full  it was Asian/indian , when he decided to sell up his rounds he couldnt give it away

 no no its me who has the problem,i hold my hands up, its a fair cop guv, im big enough to admit it Could be me -   i tried, god knows i tried  
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: keyser soze on March 18, 2014, 08:50:04 pm
 i don't get offended being labeled a brit or limey or a pom. personnaly i don't like working for our asian cousins .seem to mess you about a bit
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: gary999 on March 18, 2014, 08:52:39 pm
Ive got a few indian/pakistani customers,good as gold i even
get a nice tip off most of them at xmas
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: G Griffin on March 18, 2014, 08:54:05 pm



whatabout that bloke who commented he had a few  round in east london 1 was chock full  it was Asian/indian , when he decided to sell up his rounds he couldnt give it away

 no no its me who has the problem,i hold my hands up, its a fair cop guv, im big enough to admit it Could be me -   i tried, god knows i tried  
Grassing someone else up doesn't mean you're any less wrong  ;D.
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: Window Lickers on March 18, 2014, 08:58:28 pm


last week i got a 5 day ban for "telling it as it is" of a run in i had with an  injun [no disrespect in using  that term  , its a term covering folk from many countries of that region,what would u prefer "ethnic? ]
Anyway what i wrote was that she was a whole lot of time wasting  trouble.  in writing that i was informing other trade members to be alert to potential problems

  if i read something  window cleaning related about anybody /or of a faulty product/ dickey van story / i store it in my noggin  and thats what i love about forums , its the insider gossip  that you just cant buy.
 
Sure ,anybodys view might be considered bias , but its still of value  to the members  and can be ignored if it doesnt apply

lets not hold back on info  for fear of  insult/ban when info really does benefit all members

maybe i will be banned again now , or challenged off air .  who knows

 

But you are a muppet and everyone knows it. It was only a matter of time before you got booted.
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: rosskesava on March 18, 2014, 09:01:03 pm
There are cultural differences between different races and sometimes those differences can be interpreted as 'them' being a PITA or somehow 'wrong'.

Generally, I won't clean the windows of Bangladeshi or Pakistani customers not because of their race, but because culturally, after the haggle over the price, they tend to always try to get extra for their money and I don't want that haggle every visit.

That doesn't make them wrong and it doesn't make me racist. I've dumped 'English' customers for doing the same but generally, the English culture is not to do that.
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: tlwcs on March 18, 2014, 09:38:28 pm
I had a crap customer, you know the sort, always cooking curry.
Any better?  ;D
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: G Griffin on March 18, 2014, 10:48:12 pm
Customers are people and we have to deal with people in this job. It's a service industry.
They can be black, white, male, female, gay, straight etc. etc. It's best to treat each as an individual and  all the same.
Treating people well is as important as treating their glass.
You don't have to but it helps.
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: davids3511 on March 18, 2014, 10:52:00 pm
Personally I don't take on Irish customers between 20 and 40 anymore. I find they are more trouble then they are worth when it comes to paying for services rendered. Does that make me racist?
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: G Griffin on March 18, 2014, 10:58:32 pm
Personally I don't take on Irish customers between 20 and 40 anymore. I find they are more trouble then they are worth when it comes to paying for services rendered. Does that make me racist?
No, ageist.
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: Perfect Windows on March 18, 2014, 11:02:05 pm
Personally I don't take on Irish customers between 20 and 40 anymore. I find they are more trouble then they are worth when it comes to paying for services rendered. Does that make me racist?

I don't take on gay female Isle of Man born customers between the ages of 87 and 89 who have a wooden leg. I find them too much trouble when it comes to them "paying in kind".

Does that make me an everythingist?

Vin
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: ♠Winp®oClean♠ on March 18, 2014, 11:07:09 pm
I can't stand Gypos, tax avoiding, con artists, thieving scum! I stand by that regardless of what anyone says. ;)

Wouldn't trust a dirty Gypo as far as I could throw one.
Title: Re: dirty issues-should always be aired
Post by: Tom White on March 18, 2014, 11:12:55 pm
i don't get offended being labeled a brit or limey or a pom.

You don't have to be, however those words don't carry the same cultural baggage as other words.  I haven't heard of skin-heads going 'limey-bashing' for example.

But yet again, I'm going to lock this topic.  If you think something could be racist, just don't post it; it's simple.

And I'm getting a bit bored with this, to be honest.  My banning finger is getting a bit twitchy.  Stick to window cleaning, avoid the racist comments.  It's not difficult.

Please, and I'm asking you nicely, do not start another post on this topic.  If you don't like that, you know where the door is.