Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: j timms on January 28, 2014, 05:05:22 pm
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my customer base is about 50% trad and 50% wfp. Now whilst i can see the benefits of wfp the only customers that i ever have moan or cancel are wfp jobs.
Why are people still so opposed to it despite the far superior cleaning of frames. Does anyone find trading the bottoms on wfp jobs keeps the custie happier. Also as anyone got good advice on removing black rain marks from guttering and sills.
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Black rain marks -Cillit Bang shower and bath does it for me.
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If they are cancelling it is either natural churn (less likely IF it is really only WFP customers), poor workmanship or poor salesmanship.
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Tosh and Mrs Tosh trad bottoms and WFP tops. Works well for them.
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If they are cancelling it is either natural churn (less likely IF it is really only WFP customers), poor workmanship or poor salesmanship.
I know its not poor workmanship as I'm probably the most OCD window cleaner i know , especially when cleaning wfp. it just seems that my customers would rather me clean trad
By the way been cleaning windows 27 years the first 24 being trad only. Have had more complaints since wfp (three years) than in whole time (24 years ) i was trad.
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I'm 90% trad 10% wfp
custies have to trust that you're using the best option for their house
I take it you've explained the merits of wfp to the moaners???
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I'm 90% trad 10% wfp
custies have to trust that you're using the best option for their house
I take it you've explained the merits of wfp to the moaners???
yes mate i have . But every time i build the confidence with wfp i get a moaner and start worrying again. Its really getting me down at the moment and I'm thinking of reverting back to trad . just lost 2 biggish jobs to a trad window cleaner even after they told me they were happy with wfp.
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Just crack on with the pole.
I've had fewer complaints than ever once I went wfp.
Moans get you down sometimes but you've got to work through it.
Couldn't trad bottoms either it takes far too long compared to wfp and at least 50% would require a pointer anyway further wasting time.
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i very rarely get any complaints about wfp or trad.a couple a year at most.invariably its usually on the inside or the windows "blown"(seals have gone)allowing condensation to enter between the double glazing making it look dirty.
i do indeed lead a charmed life!! ;) ;D ;D
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Just dump them. After 27 years surely you can afford to dump the ones who are happier seeing you risk your life rather than take a safer and arguably better option?
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Most people prefer trad, been using wfp for a few months now, got my technique down and everything, its not as straight forward as it looks ,takes a bit of skill to get great results. Had a call back the other day, some guy wasn't happy, I went straight round expecting to see streaks and spotting.... Nothing, windows were drying off nicely, he just didn't like the fact that we leave them wet lol.
He must get a panic attack when it rains, encountered loads of these types. Going back to trad and just use the pole for awkward stuff
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i like to w f p tops on some of my fussy custys and trad bottoms
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It's pretty simple really.......
I tell people "seeing is believing. If you are not absoloutely happy with the end result of your window cleaning just let me know and I will come back and re do them for free."
If anyone seems unsure, I make sure I go the extra mile on their house so that the windows come up perfect.
If they complain after that then it shows they are serial moaners and I'm better off without them anyway.
In the modern days that we live in its daft not to move with the times and use equipment that faster/safer and in most cases does a higher quality job.
Then again, some people do just like everything done the old fashioned way. They like to cut trees down with an axe instead of a chainsaw, or use carrier pigeon instead of telephone. ;D
There will always be a place for trad, and always a place for WFP.
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I sometimes think the windies who have these reoccurring problems with customers who don't like wfp are projecting their own misgivings about wfp onto the customer in some subtle way. I was one of those once.
I'm now enthusiastic about wfp to customers although to begin with, when I first used wfp as opposed to doing the job trad, I wasn't but was hoping my explanations to the customer would keep them happy. It didn't untill I was sold on doing the job wfp and then hey presto, as if by magic the customer was also then happy with the idea.
Since then I've had no real problems. The odd moaner here and there over the years - dumped.
There's very few windows that come up better trad. Maybe shop windows or large panes but that only because the of the size and the amount of water and time needed wfp.
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I sometimes think the windies who have these reoccurring problems with customers who don't like wfp are projecting their own misgivings about wfp onto the customer in some subtle way. I was one of those once.
I'm now enthusiastic about wfp to customers although to begin with, when I first used wfp as opposed to doing the job trad, I wasn't but was hoping my explanations to the customer would keep them happy. It didn't untill I was sold on doing the job wfp and then hey presto, as if by magic the customer was also then happy with the idea.
Since then I've had no real problems. The odd moaner here and there over the years - dumped.
There's very few windows that come up better trad. Maybe shop windows or large panes but that only because the of the size and the amount of water and time needed wfp.
I think your first paragraph is spot on. Funny too that those that have "problem customers" almost always do tops only with WFP or are only 80% WFP.
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A lot of people don'tlike change I had a few as been wfp i think 4 years now but keep confidence in the
Pole, I still loose a few even 4 years on but iI gain much more than I loose, I went looking for the type of work that's impossible trad and increased my income dramatically in the first year of wfp even tho I was loosing a few houses. You can loose a reasonable size house and pick up an apartment block up, swings and rounabouts but your always move forwards if you stick to moden ways of working
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I converted to wfp in 2000 when it was unheard of here and I had mostly OAP's moan like merry hell. Had lots of explaining to do. Probably lost about 25 percent of my work but perservered. New customers weren't worried about wfp, just my old customers. You'll pick up more than you lose in the long run and be able to work safer, quicker and earn more. Just perservere and don't cave in to your customers and eventually you will end up 100 percent wfp if that's what you want. If you let customers dictate the way you work you'll never convert to wfp as customers who are in prefer trad as a rule and couldn't care less for your safety as they know another window cleaner will be along shortly, your choice. Me....I say.....perservere and believe in your method and technique and have confidence in it so the customer has confidence in you. You are selling yourself, be confident in wfp
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Some people just prefer trad now if your wfp custys are driving past you one day and you are up a ladder cleaning trad and you are refusing to do theirs trad for instance .
Then you can expect cancellations i only did trad and wfp as i was converting my round over a period of 2 months because i was using a trolley and had limited water , Their is no way i would be doing 50/50 wfp all the way otherwise how can you convince the doubters . Mike
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I sometimes think the windies who have these reoccurring problems with customers who don't like wfp are projecting their own misgivings about wfp onto the customer in some subtle way. I was one of those once.
I totally agree with this paragraph Ross. Some of my first cleans were imperfect. I lost a few customers too when I first switched. But I was unwittingly giving off the message, "It really works. Please believe me." I wasn't helped by the fact that I wasn't aware of any other WFP cleaners in my area, on residential, when I first switched - so some people thought I was taking the p. With the upsurge in WFP, it's rarely questioned these days.
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thanks guys for all your input. I really need a boost of confidence at moment and a lot of the replies have helped. I think the whole being positive about wfp comments are true , as you say my new customers are fine with it , its just the old brigade. In some ways half my problem is i do such a good job trad that my older customers don't understand change. Today is the start of new positive me about wfp.
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You choose what tools to use. Not the custies. I'm trad, but if I lived n UK, I'd be 100% WFP.
It's a nonstarter here for my needs.
A point worth making is, why do WFPers want trad guys to swap? What difference does it make to you? It's the same old same old "ladders will kill you" and in the next post "Where are all these new cleaners coming from?"
The easier it is to get into window cleaning, the more people will take it on as an income. In the past, you needed to be able to work off a ladder, at height and left and right handed. A certain amount of skill was needed, and the ability to clean insides. (Now there's an idea!!)
I assume it will take years until the trad guys retire or swap to WFP. So until that happens, we'll just have to use what we want eh?
Anyway, when everyone is using WFP in 2095, we can all moan about the summer brigade and undercutters, and the guys working out of surface vehicles instead of the new airborne vans etc etc.
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Tosh and Mrs Tosh trad bottoms and WFP tops. Works well for them.
Not for a few years now, Cozy; if it's possible and easier to clean a window with the pole, that's how it's done.
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Most window cleaners have a WFP around here; it's been ages since anyone has asked me to 'shammy off the water'. A tiny minority don't like it, but that's fine, it's their windows, we'll just clean somewhere else.
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I sometimes think the windies who have these reoccurring problems with customers who don't like wfp are projecting their own misgivings about wfp onto the customer in some subtle way. I was one of those once.
I totally agree with this paragraph Ross. Some of my first cleans were imperfect. I lost a few customers too when I first switched. But I was unwittingly giving off the message, "It really works. Please believe me." I wasn't helped by the fact that I wasn't aware of any other WFP cleaners in my area, on residential, when I first switched - so some people thought I was taking the p. With the upsurge in WFP, it's rarely questioned these days.
Almost 6 years ago i was in the same position and for 3 years i was the only WFP guy in my area now most of the lads have converted and asked my advice on different stuff . Mike
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Doing the bottoms trad will keep 90% of customers happy.
Some customers just don't like wfp. We had one customer who we had done for 3 years all wfp, his wife always paid no issues, The one day he's in, we clean the windows and get paid.
Call next month for gate to be left open and he cancels. He admitted that there was nothing wrong with the windows; he just wanted them done 'properly'!
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Most window cleaners have a WFP around here; it's been ages since anyone has asked me to 'shammy off the water'. A tiny minority don't like it, but that's fine, it's their windows, we'll just clean somewhere else.
I'd say around here the majority of windies are still trad.
I've also a few I still clean trad which are all bungalows although after the recent weather along the coast, I did them wfp to get the salt off. One customer did ask why I was using that pole thingy and when I explained about the salt, and that both methods leave the windows clean, she was more than happy.
As for the odd customer who cancels especially in the beginning, sometimes they are just looking for an excuse to do just that. Also some just don't like change and some are just idiots.
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The question is why do most wfp'ers think that its infallible there are just some windows
that don't come up well using it and that includes upvc.
Iv stopped doing about 30 or more properties over the years that no matter what I tried just
didn't take to the pole.
Just replaced them with 30 that did.
With wfp if your getting 90% perfection your doing well and most customers wont notice or care.
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The question is why do most wfp'ers think that its infallible there are just some windows
that don't come up well using it and that includes upvc.
Iv stopped doing about 30 or more properties over the years that no matter what I tried just
didn't take to the pole.
Just replaced them with 30 that did.
With wfp if your getting 90% perfection your doing well and most customers wont notice or care.
thats the thing sean , some windows just don't like the pole and finding out which ones can be a lottery. when alls said and done my customer base is very compact (its a cracking round) and i don't want to lose jobs as it can have a domino effect . wfp is without doubt a valuable tool to have, but i don't want to break up compact work even if the customer is wrong. After all it takes a long time to get a good round. some of the advice on here is invaluable but i do think trad is sneered at a bit to much imo.
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The question is why do most wfp'ers think that its infallible there are just some windows
that don't come up well using it and that includes upvc.
Iv stopped doing about 30 or more properties over the years that no matter what I tried just
didn't take to the pole.
Just replaced them with 30 that did.
With wfp if your getting 90% perfection your doing well and most customers wont notice or care.
thats the thing sean , some windows just don't like the pole and finding out which ones can be a lottery. when alls said and done my customer base is very compact (its a cracking round) and i don't want to lose jobs as it can have a domino effect . wfp is without doubt a valuable tool to have, but i don't want to break up compact work even if the customer is wrong. After all it takes a long time to get a good round. some of the advice on here is invaluable but i do think trad is sneered at a bit to much imo.
Yep you get the odd window that doesnt take to wfp,answer blade on
pole and dry afterwards takes seconds
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you know in your heart that trad gives a perfect job ,so dont fight it,
stay on the ladders and enjoy a job with zero stress
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Ladders..too much like hardwork...i prefer the easy life ;D
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you know in your heart that trad gives a perfect job ,so dont fight it,
stay on the ladders and enjoy a job with zero stress
Or break your back and never walk again. Atleast after that you won't have to worry about window cleaning anymore. That will be the LAST thing in your mind.
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stress kills more people than falls from ladders , its well known .
before anybody else jumps down on me , if you are wfp and diss the ladderboys
i hate yer guts !
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stress kills more people than falls from ladders , its well known .
before anybody else jumps down on me , if you are wfp and diss the ladderboys
i hate yer guts !
I thought ladders were illegal?
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stress kills more people than falls from ladders , its well known .
before anybody else jumps down on me , if you are wfp and diss the ladderboys
i hate yer guts !
I do trad and WFP.
I'm just not as naive to think using ladders is safe as brick houses. :)
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Customers are funny creatures. If I really don't want to talk to a customer on the phone I get rid of them by saying "I can't talk now as I'm up a ladder" but I'll call you back as soon as I can. Works every time. When I go round to give them a quote, I tell them I only use wfp as I don't like using ladders anymore. Not one of them has ever twigged. ;D
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Or break your back and never walk again. Atleast after that you won't have to worry about window cleaning anymore. That will be the LAST thing in your mind.
So breaking your back is a foregone conclusion of using a ladder?
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stress kills more people than falls from ladders , its well known .
before anybody else jumps down on me , if you are wfp and diss the ladderboys
i hate yer guts !
not really a good comparison is it.
how about in actual use, which one is more likely to leave you
dead or seriously injured wfp or ladders ;)
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stress kills more people than falls from ladders , its well known .
before anybody else jumps down on me , if you are wfp and diss the ladderboys
i hate yer guts !
Bobby you're always stressed anyway!
You should come to the light side ;D
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Or break your back and never walk again. Atleast after that you won't have to worry about window cleaning anymore. That will be the LAST thing in your mind.
So breaking your back is a foregone conclusion of using a ladder?
Not at all.
It's always there lurking though.
Everytime you use ladders no matter how safe you try to be, there is always the potential for an accident because of something out of your control.
All you can do is minimise it, never eradicate it.
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I do both and find its most important to get to know
Customer then sell the wfp as a superior method of cleaning.
" why would you invest £2000 in a cleaning system that doesn't
Work when you can use scrim and blade for £20"
One they realise that, they work with you to iron out the
Problem windows. This is what's happened to me.
Occasionally you'll be the idiots but be polite and replace them
With another job that's more wfp friendly.