[C o z y]

You choose what tools to use. Not the custies. I'm trad, but if I lived n UK, I'd be 100% WFP.
It's a nonstarter here for my needs.
A point worth making is, why do WFPers want trad guys to swap? What difference does it make to you? It's the same old same old "ladders will kill you" and in the next post "Where are all these new cleaners coming from?"
The easier it is to get into window cleaning, the more people will take it on as an income. In the past, you needed to be able to work off a ladder, at height and left and right handed. A certain amount of skill was needed, and the ability to clean insides. (Now there's an idea!!)
I assume it will take years until the trad guys retire or swap to WFP. So until that happens, we'll just have to use what we want eh?
Anyway, when everyone is using WFP in 2095, we can all moan about the summer brigade and undercutters, and the guys working out of surface vehicles instead of the new airborne vans etc etc.

[Tom White]

Tosh and Mrs Tosh trad bottoms and WFP tops. Works well for them.

Not for a few years now, Cozy; if it's possible and easier to clean a window with the pole, that's how it's done.

[Tom White]

Most window cleaners have a WFP around here; it's been ages since anyone has asked me to 'shammy off the water'.  A tiny minority don't like it, but that's fine, it's their windows, we'll just clean somewhere else.

[Mike #1]

I sometimes think the windies who have these reoccurring problems with customers who don't like wfp are projecting their own misgivings about wfp onto the customer in some subtle way. I was one of those once.

I totally agree with this paragraph Ross.  Some of my first cleans were imperfect.  I lost a few customers too when I first switched. But I was unwittingly giving off the message, "It really works. Please believe me."  I wasn't helped by the fact that I wasn't aware of any other WFP cleaners in my area, on residential, when I first switched - so some people thought I was taking the p.  With the upsurge in WFP, it's rarely questioned these days.

Almost 6 years ago i was in the same position and for 3 years i was the only WFP guy in my area now most of the  lads have converted and asked my advice on different stuff . Mike

[A & J Owen Window Cleaning]

Doing the bottoms trad will keep 90% of customers happy.
Some customers just don't like wfp. We had one customer who we had done for 3 years all wfp, his wife always paid no issues, The one day he's in, we clean the windows and get paid.
Call next month for gate to be left open and he cancels. He admitted that there was nothing wrong with the windows; he just wanted them done 'properly'!

[rosskesava]

Most window cleaners have a WFP around here; it's been ages since anyone has asked me to 'shammy off the water'.  A tiny minority don't like it, but that's fine, it's their windows, we'll just clean somewhere else.

I'd say around here the majority of windies are still trad.

I've also a few I still clean trad which are all bungalows although after the recent weather along the coast, I did them wfp to get the salt off. One customer did ask why I was using that pole thingy and when I explained about the salt, and that both methods leave the windows clean, she was more than happy.

As for the odd customer who cancels especially in the beginning, sometimes they are just looking for an excuse to do just that. Also some just don't like change and some are just idiots.

[SeanK]

The question is why do most wfp'ers think that its infallible there are just some windows
that don't come up well using it and that includes upvc.
Iv stopped doing about 30 or more properties over the years that no matter what I tried just
didn't take to the pole.
Just replaced them with 30 that did.
With wfp if your getting 90% perfection your doing well and most customers wont notice or care.

[j timms]

The question is why do most wfp'ers think that its infallible there are just some windows
that don't come up well using it and that includes upvc.
Iv stopped doing about 30 or more properties over the years that no matter what I tried just
didn't take to the pole.
Just replaced them with 30 that did.
With wfp if your getting 90% perfection your doing well and most customers wont notice or care.

thats the thing sean , some windows just don't like the pole and finding out which ones can be a lottery. when alls said and done my customer base is very compact (its a cracking round) and i don't want to lose jobs as it can have a domino effect . wfp is without doubt a valuable tool to have, but i don't want to break up compact work even if the customer is wrong. After all it takes a long time to get a good round. some of the advice on here is invaluable but i do think trad is sneered at a bit to much imo.

[gary999]

The question is why do most wfp'ers think that its infallible there are just some windows
that don't come up well using it and that includes upvc.
Iv stopped doing about 30 or more properties over the years that no matter what I tried just
didn't take to the pole.
Just replaced them with 30 that did.
With wfp if your getting 90% perfection your doing well and most customers wont notice or care.

thats the thing sean , some windows just don't like the pole and finding out which ones can be a lottery. when alls said and done my customer base is very compact (its a cracking round) and i don't want to lose jobs as it can have a domino effect . wfp is without doubt a valuable tool to have, but i don't want to break up compact work even if the customer is wrong. After all it takes a long time to get a good round. some of the advice on here is invaluable but i do think trad is sneered at a bit to much imo.

Yep you get the odd window that doesnt take to wfp,answer blade on
pole and dry afterwards takes seconds

[robertphil]

you know in your heart that trad gives a perfect job ,so dont fight it,

stay on the ladders  and enjoy a job with zero stress

[gary999]

Ladders..too much like hardwork...i prefer the easy life

[Jonny 87]

you know in your heart that trad gives a perfect job ,so dont fight it,

stay on the ladders  and enjoy a job with zero stress

Or break your back and never walk again. Atleast after that you won't have to worry about window cleaning anymore. That will be the LAST thing in your mind.

[robertphil]

stress kills more people than falls from ladders , its well known .

 before anybody else jumps down on me ,  if you are wfp and diss the ladderboys

i hate yer guts !

[8weekly]

stress kills more people than falls from ladders , its well known .

 before anybody else jumps down on me ,  if you are wfp and diss the ladderboys

i hate yer guts !

I thought ladders were illegal?

[Jonny 87]

stress kills more people than falls from ladders , its well known .

 before anybody else jumps down on me ,  if you are wfp and diss the ladderboys

i hate yer guts !

I do trad and WFP.

I'm just not as naive to think using ladders is safe as brick houses.

[robbo333]

Customers are funny creatures. If I really don't want to talk to a customer on the phone I get rid of them by saying "I can't talk now as I'm up a ladder" but I'll call you back as soon as I can. Works every time. When I go round to give them a quote, I tell them I only use wfp as I don't like using ladders anymore. Not one of them has ever twigged. 

[rosskesava]

Or break your back and never walk again. Atleast after that you won't have to worry about window cleaning anymore. That will be the LAST thing in your mind.

So breaking your back is a foregone conclusion of using a ladder?

[gary999]

stress kills more people than falls from ladders , its well known .

 before anybody else jumps down on me ,  if you are wfp and diss the ladderboys

i hate yer guts !

not really a good comparison is it.

how about in actual use, which one is more likely to leave you
dead or seriously injured  wfp or ladders

[PoleKing]

stress kills more people than falls from ladders , its well known .

 before anybody else jumps down on me ,  if you are wfp and diss the ladderboys

i hate yer guts !

Bobby you're always stressed anyway!
You should come to the light side

[Jonny 87]

Or break your back and never walk again. Atleast after that you won't have to worry about window cleaning anymore. That will be the LAST thing in your mind.

So breaking your back is a foregone conclusion of using a ladder?

Not at all.

It's always there lurking though.

Everytime you use ladders no matter how safe you try to be, there is always the potential for an accident because of something out of your control. 

All you can do is minimise it, never eradicate it.