Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Lee Burbidge on November 08, 2013, 10:30:45 am
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We all know that our job from time to time has the customer that will not pay and owe you money, some more than others. Do you really have to accept this as part of the job and move on? What provisions do you have to protect yourself if any, insurance, service agreement do you use letters before action?
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Does it depend on the value?
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Ive been thinking about this as of late due to being stung by about 4 or 5 custy's this year. As far as i know if they owe under £25 your can't take legal action? So i just write off the debt after a few polite texts, phone calls and door knocks.
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Hi lee
We are just about export data from George to aworka, so got my admin girl to tidy up the data so we get of to a good start.
One thing she found was over 800 quid in old debts on houses some going back to last year. We wrote of tiny amounts over 3 months old especially if they had cancelled.
However some were amounts of 40 and 50 pound.
So we wrote to them politely but firmly . A few were clerical errors on our part and we corrected them but some started paying in full.
One woman was 12 pounds but only ever got to do fronts at 6 owed us 42 pounds from 2012 Paid up in full with an apology.
400 of the bad debt collected in so far.
So I think a letter on a letterhead gets results.
I have thought of getting people to sign up with some basics t&cs like paying immediately and having cleaned every visit etc. this would just be to get some commitment from them and would I doubt offer any legal protection.
Just best to grin and bare it I suspect.
Cheers
John
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Hi lee
We are just about export data from George to aworka, so got my admin girl to tidy up the data so we get of to a good start.
One thing she found was over 800 quid in old debts on houses some going back to last year. We wrote of tiny amounts over 3 months old especially if they had cancelled.
However some were amounts of 40 and 50 pound.
So we wrote to them politely but firmly . A few were clerical errors on our part and we corrected them but some started paying in full.
One woman was 12 pounds but only ever got to do fronts at 6 owed us 42 pounds from 2012 Paid up in full with an apology.
400 of the bad debt collected in so far.
So I think a letter on a letterhead gets results.
I have thought of getting people to sign up with some basics t&cs like paying immediately and having cleaned every visit etc. this would just be to get some commitment from them and would I doubt offer any legal protection.
Just best to grin and bare it I suspect.
Cheers
John
Hey man, how would you get your T&C's over to your current business base? Can you give us a sample of the type of letter you send it may help ppl reading this post. We have others sending us there service agreement so we are hoping to share this all so that ppl can pick out which best suits there business :)
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Ive been thinking about this as of late due to being stung by about 4 or 5 custy's this year. As far as i know if they owe under £25 your can't take legal action? So i just write off the debt after a few polite texts, phone calls and door knocks.
That is a shame. What are the costs for legal action nowadays over £25.00... is it worth it?
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Example of T&C's for the US/AUS markets
Terms of Service
We don’t like fine print but like to be as clear as possible about our service. We have tried to keep it simple without any legal terms but explaining our method as well as what is included and what is not. Please feel free to ask us any further questions you may have. Happy customers have kept Big Red WIndow Cleaning growing for over four years and we want to keep it that way.
Furniture & Blinds - we are able to move small items of furniture, however heavy items may not be moved for the safety of our staff or to reduce risk of damage to floors. We would appreciate blinds with CORDS to be drawn prior to commencement (ie. curtains and shutters are ok to leave to us).
Other Trades - in most cases we can work quite easily around other trades, however there are some instances where it can severely impact on our time (eg. if you have scheduled an electrical contractor to work on outdoor fittings then external window cleaning may not be suitable at the same time).
Tracks - tracks are brushed and vacuumed of heavy debris, then at the time of cleaning the glass we spray inside the track to remove the remaining finer debris. We cannot guarantee they will look new but we are sure you will be impressed with the results. If track cleaning has been requested it will be listed on your quote.
Internal Frame Cleaning - frames are wiped with a damp cotton cloth and detergent solution. This removes surface dirt, however will not remove heavy staining (and if we have not inspected inside will not include mould removal). If internal frame cleaning has been requested it will be listed on your quote.
External Frame Cleaning - frames are washed prior to glass with our water fed pole. If you have old paintwork there is a limit to how much scrubbing can be done as we do not want paint flakes everywhere. If external frame cleaning has been requested it will be listed on your quote.
Fly Screens - all screens are different and respond to cleaning treatments differently. In most cases fly screens are removed from the window to be washed and dried before replacing. Some fly screens that are old, brittle, loose or have existing holes may have been photographed during the quote process. These screens will generally not be included in the price as we would not risk further damage to them.
Fixed Screens - diamond pattern and regular fly screens that have been screwed or riveted in to position are considered fixed screens. They can be cleaned by wiping first inside to remove most heavy debris such as cobwebs and if requested can be pressure washed from the outside afterwards. Although usually this methods produces excellent results, screens that have not been cleaned in a long time or are in an area where heavy dust and grime builds up, we have found can dry with a streaky look. Because there are so many tiny holes and places for dirt to settle, we find it almost impossible to remove it all. We cannot apply continuous streams of water from our pressure washers because no windows or doors we have come across seal properly and the internal tracks fill up quickly and can overflow and flood inside the home. Alternatively if you would like screwed in screens to be removed a charge per screw to remove and replace is applicable and would be shown on your quote. Let us know ASAP if this is something you would like amended on your quote. If screen cleaning has been requested it will be listed on your quote
Screen Sealant - we offer a screen sealing service for vinyl screens only. It can help your screens look better and last longer. It is not recommended for old, brittle, loose or torn screens. If screen sealing has been requested it will be listed on your quote.
Rain Guarantee - if you have requested on of our packages, a Rain Guarantee will most likely be included, either 3, 5 or 10 days. The Rain Guarantee covers external glass only (ie. panels exposed to the elements) that you feel has been dirtied by rain during the covered period. It does not cover bird / bat droppings, toddler attacks, dogs noses or mud pie fights.
Completion of Service -please inspect the work carried out as we prefer you to be happy with everything prior to departure. We do provide a 48 hour window after completion in case anything has been overlooked, however cannot return after this time except for our Rain Guarantee.
Payment for Service - our quotes are final and there are NO hidden extras for going overtime. The only time a price may change is when additional services are requested, quoted and agreed to either before, during or after the original service. In most cases we will email your invoice to you on completion of the service so that you can easily make payment. Our invoice contains a link to pay by Credit Card or PayPal as well as bank details for Direct Deposit payments. Our staff can also accept cash. Company cheques are accepted and personal cheques with prior approval. Electronic receipts are issued for all payments including cash.
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Just drop, and move on, it is part of the job sifting through bad ones. For me personally I prefer to do without the hassle.
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I had one customer I do quite abit of work for owed
Me 7 months money at one point, as he sort of became a friend, he owed me £12,000 he eventually gave me a £7,000 cheque but still owed me £5,000 and I was still giving more invoices each month of which eventually got on top and paid. Been a good payer for quite some time but now owes me £1,800 that's without this months invoice. I know he will pay but pees me off as the work I do for him, he as been paid for, I think he try's to live beyond his means !!!! 😳
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Just drop, and move on, it is part of the job sifting through bad ones. For me personally I prefer to do without the hassle.
+1.
John
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I had one customer I do quite abit of work for owed
Me 7 months money at one point, as he sort of became a friend, he owed me £12,000 he eventually gave me a £7,000 cheque but still owed me £5,000 and I was still giving more invoices each month of which eventually got on top and paid. Been a good payer for quite some time but now owes me £1,800 that's without this months invoice. I know he will pay but pees me off as the work I do for him, he as been paid for, I think he try's to live beyond his means !!!! 😳
Set him on gocardless Danny.
Spin it to him 'I know you're busy so this may help...'
£2 maximum charge.
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Just drop, and move on, it is part of the job sifting through bad ones. For me personally I prefer to do without the hassle.
Ok, so accept the loss? Part of the job and all that.... do you have to accept the loss?
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I had one customer I do quite abit of work for owed
Me 7 months money at one point, as he sort of became a friend, he owed me £12,000 he eventually gave me a £7,000 cheque but still owed me £5,000 and I was still giving more invoices each month of which eventually got on top and paid. Been a good payer for quite some time but now owes me £1,800 that's without this months invoice. I know he will pay but pees me off as the work I do for him, he as been paid for, I think he try's to live beyond his means !!!! 😳
Too much money owed :(
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I've never gone more than one clean unless bill has been paid, even with our commercial customers, had a few who have tried it but debt letters seem to do the job for us and then we drop them immediately, I've lost one £8 in last three years as went to knock but customer had moved
Graham
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Just drop, and move on, it is part of the job sifting through bad ones. For me personally I prefer to do without the hassle.
Ok, so accept the loss? Part of the job and all that.... do you have to accept the loss?
No you don't have to accept the loss. I walk away and move on rather than to have to deal with the stress of it all. Others will fight it all the way. Nothing wrong with that. I admire those who have the tenacity which I lack.
John
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Just drop, and move on, it is part of the job sifting through bad ones. For me personally I prefer to do without the hassle.
Ok, so accept the loss? Part of the job and all that.... do you have to accept the loss?
No you don't have to accept the loss. I walk away and move on rather than to have to deal with the stress of it all. Others will fight it all the way. Nothing wrong with that. I admire those who have the tenacity which I lack.
John
But isnt that accepting the loss by walking away. Is it worth having your customers sign a service agreement providing the amount is over 25.00 and you can claim it back through small claims?
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So here's a question:
T's & C's might be useful for residential customers - but what about huge "one off" cleans?
I've done builders cleans on apartment blocks before & the bill came to a few grand & I had massive issues & 14 months of fighting to get paid just half of what I was owed - another job was €1100 and I never saw a cent. Terms & conditions didn't help me there & neither did threats of legal action.
My solution at the time was simply to stop doing that kind of work,.. but I now wonder if there is a better solution - perhaps an escrow service or pre-authorisation service like gocardless?
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We all know that our job from time to time has the customer that will not pay and owe you money, some more than others. Do you really have to accept this as part of the job and move on? What provisions do you have to protect yourself if any, insurance, service agreement do you use letters before action?
1) standing order
2) one clean. one payment policy
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So here's a question:
T's & C's might be useful for residential customers - but what about huge "one off" cleans?
I've done builders cleans on apartment blocks before & the bill came to a few grand & I had massive issues & 14 months of fighting to get paid just half of what I was owed - another job was €1100 and I never saw a cent. Terms & conditions didn't help me there & neither did threats of legal action.
My solution at the time was simply to stop doing that kind of work,.. but I now wonder if there is a better solution - perhaps an escrow service or pre-authorisation service like gocardless?
Get the local scallies to keep smashing them.
Only cost you a few can of Stella.
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Darren what's gocardless never heard of it ?
When customers owe quite a few outstanding Invoices you can't start sending dent letters as they can always get someone else as there's loads of windys out there and the big company's won't give a crap if its your company or someone else's who clean there windows. They pay in the end that's the main thing. I get on really well with all mine but the ones that are slow paying are normally management company's whom I never see as I just send invoice off to the head offices.
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Darren what's gocardless never heard of it ?
When customers owe quite a few outstanding Invoices you can't start sending dent letters as they can always get someone else as there's loads of windys out there and the big company's won't give a crap if its your company or someone else's who clean there windows. They pay in the end that's the main thing. I get on really well with all mine but the ones that are slow paying are normally management company's whom I never see as I just send invoice off to the head offices.
www.gocardless.com
There's been a few threads on it recently.
It's a company that does direct debits.
Customer only needs to authorize you once.
Then the account is set up.
Once set up, you can take a recurring payment of the same ammount automatically or you can take payment on an ad-hoc basis. There does need to be an element if trust between merchant and client.
The client gets an email a few days beforehand saying £x will be taken on 00/00/2013.
A few days later gocardless takes the money. A week or so later you get your money.
Fee is 1% Upto a maximum £2 charge.
It's awesome! I've got 56 customers signed up so far...
If you go for it, let someone know on here. They do recommend a friend incentive of £50 credit if you get referred.
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Just drop, and move on, it is part of the job sifting through bad ones. For me personally I prefer to do without the hassle.
Ok, so accept the loss? Part of the job and all that.... do you have to accept the loss?
No you don't have to accept the loss. I walk away and move on rather than to have to deal with the stress of it all. Others will fight it all the way. Nothing wrong with that. I admire those who have the tenacity which I lack.
John
But isnt that accepting the loss by walking away. Is it worth having your customers sign a service agreement providing the amount is over 25.00 and you can claim it back through small claims?
Yes I suppose it is. I haven't got the mental energy to chase what are essentially small amounts, as it would often take more time, energy and money than I would get back. As for T&C's, people in my locality would laugh at the idea. And so would I, as it would be all but impossible to impose.
John
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Sounds good Darren but the amounts differ and doing that would sod all the vat invoices up. Cheers for the info thou.
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Sounds good Darren but the amounts differ and doing that would sod all the vat invoices up. Cheers for the info thou.
That's not an issue bud, if you go for as hoc payments (you can have recurring and ad hoc concurrently) you just put in how much you're taking.
Look into it bud rather than just my opinions.
I'd be surprised if you can't benefit from it.
(I'm not a shareholder or anything, I just really like it)
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you tend to find these people have selective amnesia when its paying uppy time. so a good sunday afternoon door knock seems to remind them you wont let it go why should you its your money and you have done the job.like yesterday this chap owes me a13 squid so I was in the motor sure enough lad slinks by without paying . so today I was on the doorstep. ;D ;D