Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: water fed bill on May 24, 2013, 04:06:40 pm
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I bought a new flow controller from Pure Freedom about 4 months ago. It worked fine for a few weeks then started blowing fuses for no reason as it was wired correctly and I sent it back to Pure Freedom who had it repaired and said there was a fault on the unit and its fine now got it back and re-fitted it and it worked fine for about 2-3 weeks then the same thing happend again I called Pure Freedom back and told them I was told to send it back and they would send me a replacement, 2 weeks on heard nothing so I called them they said it was still sat on the shelf they hadnt looked at it yet and they will get straight onto it.
Today I called them again (couple of days later) and they said I had to pay for the repairs as it was me that had caused the damage a diode inside the unit had blew due to reverse polority with is impossible as it had been working fine and then suddenly started blowing fuses the wiring was fine and had not been touched so how can it be my fault, I have told them to send the varistream back with a statement and I am going to get an independent electronics expert to check it for me and will be passed onto trading standards.
I told them this and it cant be my fault and was basically told I was a liar and its the laws of physics that its been wired wrong,
I have used Pure freedom for about 7 years and spent alot of money with them. and get customer service like that.
I will NOT be using them again
Be warned !
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I take it you've joined this forum to have a pop at Pure Freedom?
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welcome to the forum
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have you opened an account just for this thread ?
get the independant report ( spring - Ian shepard ) would be the man - then if your right by all means
come on the forum slagging off well respected suppliers
Darran
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No I have been on the forum along while I just havnt posted, I normally use the window-tools forum.
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Date Registered: March 14, 2011, 05:55:23 pm
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Well if your only post is to slag a company off who's going to take you seriously?
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Sounds like poor & sloppy customer service to me. I would have done exactly the same, come on here & spouted about it!!
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his choice his money hes spending.
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It may be bad service but would you join a forum then wait 2 years to post and then slag someone off?
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This is my dads post I was with him listening to the call. He has been on here ages but he normally just likes to read others rants. But today hes got to do one all of his own ;D
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This is my dads post I was with him listening to the call. He has been on here ages but he normally just likes to read others rants. But today hes got to do one all of his own ;D
one rant in over 2 years nothing wrong with that. ;)
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flipping heck its only a flow controller ........... whats your problem ???
haha only kidding just wanted to see you stressed out again
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It may be bad service but would you join a forum then wait 2 years to post and then slag someone off?
Yep! Most certainly if that happened to me. ;)
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There seems to be two technical points here
1. The fuse blowing.
It is difficult to comment on this without seeing the installation - pump as a fuse blowing could be caused by an current surge from a number of sources. The units are supplied with a 7amp fuse to go in line between the battery and controller on the positive (red).
2. Reverse polarity diode on the control.
In order to protect the processor and board from accidental miss wiring a diode is fitted on the power supply. The reverse polarity diode would only blow in one instance. That the red positive cable is connected by mistake to the negative terminal of the battery and the Negative lead to the positive terminal.
The diode is there for one reason which is to protect the processor from miss wiring. As the manufacturer we are more than happy to inspect the control however if the reverse polarity diode has gone this would fall outside of the warranty as miss wiring is the only reason for it to fail and a charge for repair is likely.
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haha only kidding just wanted to see you stressed out again
;D ;D
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There seems to be two technical points here
1. The fuse blowing.
It is difficult to comment on this without seeing the installation - pump as a fuse blowing could be caused by an current surge from a number of sources. The units are supplied with a 7amp fuse to go in line between the battery and controller on the positive (red).
2. Reverse polarity diode on the control.
In order to protect the processor and board from accidental miss wiring a diode is fitted on the power supply. The reverse polarity diode would only blow in one instance. That the red positive cable is connected by mistake to the negative terminal of the battery and the Negative lead to the positive terminal.
The diode is there for one reason which is to protect the processor from miss wiring. As the manufacturer we are more than happy to inspect the control however if the reverse polarity diode has gone this would fall outside of the warranty as miss wiring is the only reason for it to fail and a charge for repair is likely.
They have told us that the diode is blown but it has not had the polarity reversed it was working fine and then it just started blowing fuses.
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Who's to say PF didn't reverse the polarity?
How can the OP have done it when he's been using it for 2 weeks? I'm assuming, after reading his post that he hasn't changed anything which would have allowed an accidental change of polarity.
Sounds dodgy to me :-\ & to have it sat on a shelf for 2 weeks shows they didn't give a hoot really!
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when I turned it on the pump run then the fuse blew, so I changed the fuse same size as the orignal 7.5 amp and it just blew again so I checked all the wiring for a short and it was fine went through about 6 fuses one after the other. so was sent back a second time to Pure Freedom, I have never had a bad word about Pure Freedom until now.
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On occasions when switching batteries over it is possible to reverse the polarity by connecting the cables the wrong way round.
If the reverse polarity diode has gone there is unfortunately only one reason why this would happen.
Have PF returned the unit to us?
It would be unusual for the controller to be the cause of fuses blowing. The fuse is in line between the battery and control so current is flowing from the battery through the control to the pump.
Daft question but we are talking about a PF flowmaster here and not a Varistream?
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You don't need this thing anyway - just go full flow.
i mean, when did anyone here actually VARY the water speed?
Exactly, never.
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You don't need this thing anyway - just go full flow.
i mean, when did anyone here actually VARY the water speed?
Exactly, never.
There's much more than flow rate to using a controller. ;)
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Yes its the flow master analoge controller I checked everything aswell and could find nothing wrong why would the pump run and then blow fuses if it was the diode. I suspect either the manufacturers or purefreedom are trying to get away with getting some more money out of us.
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Yes its the flow master analoge controller I checked everything aswell and could find nothing wrong why would the pump run and then blow fuses if it was the diode. I suspect either the manufacturers or purefreedom are trying to get away with getting some more money out of us.
Ian IS the manufacturer ;D
I suspect PF couldn't be arsed with you any more & blew it themselves!
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Yes its the flow master analoge controller I checked everything aswell and could find nothing wrong why would the pump run and then blow fuses if it was the diode. I suspect either the manufacturers or purefreedom are trying to get away with getting some more money out of us.
Hi Liam in the 1st post it mentions that the problem is the diode has blown due to reverse polarity.
I have to work on the basis of the info given as I have not seen the control. If it is the reverse polarity diode it would only blow for one reason. The controls have a 12 month warranty form purchase so if the unit has failed due to a manufacture error we will repair it under the warranty.
This is why I ask if the unit has been returned so we can clarify what the issue is.
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The unit was sent back because it kept blowing fuses no other reason.
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Ok Has the unit been returned to us At Spring?
The thread started with a comment about reverse polarity as well as fuses blowing. It is difficult to diagnose something I can not see.
There are a number of reason to cause a current surge and blow the fuse. As an example a pump with worn brushes in the motor would draw a higher current than a newer pump.
What size pump is being used in terms of PSI and current? also what flow rate and calibration was the control set at?
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Yes its the flow master analoge controller I checked everything aswell and could find nothing wrong why would the pump run and then blow fuses if it was the diode. I suspect either the manufacturers or purefreedom are trying to get away with getting some more money out of us.
Ian IS the manufacturer ;D
I suspect PF couldn't be arsed with you any more & blew it themselves!
;D ;D
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Yes its the flow master analoge controller I checked everything aswell and could find nothing wrong why would the pump run and then blow fuses if it was the diode. I suspect either the manufacturers or purefreedom are trying to get away with getting some more money out of us.
Ian IS the manufacturer ;D
I suspect PF couldn't be arsed with you any more & blew it themselves!
;D ;D
I suppose my comment could be taken two ways. I was serious, get out of jail free card for PF - just reverse the polarity & tell him it's his fault!!
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I would like to try understand why the unit was blowing fuses which is the initial issue. What is it that is causing the power surge? Hence my questions re the pump and control settings.
It would also be useful to Know if the control is back with us and has been inspected by our engineer. This may have to wait until after the BH.
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You don't need this thing anyway - just go full flow.
i mean, when did anyone here actually VARY the water speed?
Exactly, never. flow is changed according to type of work - sometimes flow is changed 3 or 4 times during the day
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The pump is a shurflo 100psi and was new with the controller the pressure cut off is set around half way. The unit was sent to pure freedom for the sole reason of fuses being blown one after the other. It was only today that we was told its our fault because the diote has blown and according to purefreedom the unit is at the manufacterer.
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Paul do you know you don't have to return to tank you can just return to the inlet side of the pump instead? A tee on the outlet side, and a tee on the inlet side with a valve on the line is all that is needed. I also don't believe in flow controllers, but I think a relay to protect the pump switch is a good investment.
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Paul do you know you don't have to return to tank you can just return to the inlet side of the pump instead? A tee on the outlet side, and a tee on the inlet side with a valve on the line is all that is needed. I also don't believe in flow controllers, but I think a relay to protect the pump switch is a good investment.
That's exactly how I used to have mine set up, had it this way for 2 years. However, I would NEVER go back to it after using an electronic controller, just too many advantages with controllers.
There is nothing more simple than a proper controller, too many people use them for a day & decide they're no good because they don't understand how they work or know how to set them up correctly!
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Paul do you know you don't have to return to tank you can just return to the inlet side of the pump instead? A tee on the outlet side, and a tee on the inlet side with a valve on the line is all that is needed. I also don't believe in flow controllers, but I think a relay to protect the pump switch is a good investment.
That's exactly how I used to have mine set up, had it this way for 2 years. However, I would NEVER go back to it after using an electronic controller, just too many advantages with controllers.
There is nothing more simple than a proper controller, too many people use them for a day & decide they're no good because they don't understand how they work or know how to set them up correctly!
That's exactly why I don't supply them. It is nearly impossible to trouble shoot a set up with a controller and a pump over the phone, should something go wrong with one of them. I am also a great believer in running a pump on full power when cleaning windows, anything less than full and your wasting time. My opinion, and I do relise that its not most people's.
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Paul do you know you don't have to return to tank you can just return to the inlet side of the pump instead? A tee on the outlet side, and a tee on the inlet side with a valve on the line is all that is needed. I also don't believe in flow controllers, but I think a relay to protect the pump switch is a good investment.
That's exactly how I used to have mine set up, had it this way for 2 years. However, I would NEVER go back to it after using an electronic controller, just too many advantages with controllers.
There is nothing more simple than a proper controller, too many people use them for a day & decide they're no good because they don't understand how they work or know how to set them up correctly!
That's exactly why I don't supply them. It is nearly impossible to trouble shoot a set up with a controller and a pump over the phone, should something go wrong with one of them. I am also a great believer in running a pump on full power when cleaning windows, anything less than full and your wasting time. My opinion, and I do relise that its not most people's.
You run your pump on full yet have spent your life creating devices to save water!! ;D
There is only one way- electronic, anything else is constant compromise!! ;)
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What are the advantages of a controller other than saving water?
I know they are supposed to protect the pump but pressure switches are very cheap.
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I think there is an optimum spied that a pump should rind at before the water hits the window too hard and just splashes back off the glass, so a controller can save you water without it actually affect the rinsing speed.
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I know for a fact I am not wasting water having the pump on full blast. If I turn the pump down I am wasting time, and not saving water. Remember I would only be using water when the brush is on the glass and cleaning. I am not spraying water on the walls going from window to window, and not wasting water while putting the pole up and down. A window takes a certain amount of water to clean, the faster that water is delivered the faster that window is clean and you can move on to the next one.
DG pressure switches are very cheap but you don't even have to replace them if you have a relay. The relay is much meatier than the little flimsy pressure switches and last much longer. They are also easier to replace as you just change over 4 spades with nothing to open.
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What are the advantages of a controller other than saving water?
I know they are supposed to protect the pump but pressure switches are very cheap.
Use less battery power, consistent pre-set flow regardless of height of pole, more accurate pressure cut off, press one button in the morning & that's it.
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Lee I think the opposite could be a problem with some water not reaching the glass while travelling through the brush on a low flow. I never have the problem with the water splashing back as the brush is always on the glass, but I suppose this is for another post, this one is about a faulty flow controller.
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If I am not saving water, I am not saving battery power either. I also get as continuos flow as I would get on full power with a controller. I only have one button to press on at the start of the day as well. Pressure switch turns the pump off as soon as the water has stopped. I know people are always going to use flow controllers, but I just want people to know that there are options.
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I know for a fact I am not wasting water having the pump on full blast. If I turn the pump down I am wasting time, and not saving water. Remember I would only be using water when the brush is on the glass and cleaning. I am not spraying water on the walls going from window to window, and not wasting water while putting the pole up and down. A window takes a certain amount of water to clean, the faster that water is delivered the faster that window is clean and you can move on to the next one.
DG pressure switches are very cheap but you don't even have to replace them if you have a relay. The relay is much meatier than the little flimsy pressure switches and last much longer. They are also easier to replace as you just change over 4 spades with nothing to open.
That's just theory Peter & evidence IMO that you don't do much if any window cleaning anymore? What about spider nests, bird poo etc etc that requires scrubbing or hooking out with the bristles? You'll be wasting water on a massive scale in these situations & if not then you will be wasting time with a constant on//off flow.
There is a point where there is an "optimum" flow rate, any more is wasted & any less is costing you time. That "optimum" rate is miles away from the rate an un-controlled pump runs at! Using a pump at full flow smacks of lack of skill/experience IMO. ;D
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???
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That's exactly why in my opinion you need a good reliable easy way of turning your water off. You can't take double the time cleaning every pane of glass on the off chance you will come across something that needs a bit of extra scrubbing, so you can save a tiny ammount if water.
My optimum flow rate is full power on a 100psi pump and if need be I can turn the water on and off with very little effort. Remember the only reason controllers were introduced in this market in the first place was to stop the pump cycling as too many switches were burning out. They were not introduced to save water or battery power.
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That's exactly why in my opinion you need a good reliable easy way of turning your water off. You can't take double the time cleaning every pane of glass on the off chance you will come across something that needs a bit of extra scrubbing, so you can save a tiny ammount if water.
My optimum flow rate is full power on a 100psi pump and if need be I can turn the water on and off with very little effort. Remember the only reason controllers were introduced in this market in the first place was to stop the pump cycling as too many switches were burning out. They were not introduced to save water or battery power.
I used to bang on about this subject but got fed up with the constant backlash, some folk have thanked me though, as it has worked our for them, and in return I thank peter, who explained it to me in the first place, I know what works and the rest can crack on doing what ever they please
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Stuart I am a glutton for punishment, I do sometimes get fed up and let them get on with it but every now and again I give it another go. I know damn well everyone is not going to change the way they work just because someone on a post in a forum says its best. It is frustrating though that there is not a more positive attitude to something that could potentially save a lot of hassle and a lot of time. If it didn't work out they could always revert back. It is not just this part of water fed pole work I get stuck in lengthy debates about, there are others as well. I am glad though I could have been of assistance to you, it makes it all worthwhile.
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The thing is with a controller and a tap the flow can be altered from a dribble to a full blast or off and on. It seems the more versatile option to me, plus pressure control.
All done from the pole, no remote, no walking back to the van no spraying up the walls.
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Having read this entire thread, I'm so glad I no longer use a flow controller of any sort other than a very very cheap voltage regulator which I only ever adjust for a few odd jobs.
I no longer use taps or Aquadapters or anything. If I want to stop the water flow, I kink the hose which I have outside the pole which lasts longer due to that.
2 years of working that way and not a single problem.
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Having read this entire thread, I'm so glad I no longer use a flow controller of any sort other than a very very cheap voltage regulator which I only ever adjust for a few odd jobs.
I no longer use taps or Aquadapters or anything. If I want to stop the water flow, I kink the hose which I have outside the pole which lasts longer due to that.
2 years of working that way and not a single problem.
That just seems such a faff to me. A tap on the pole does add a small amount of weight, but it is at the bottom of the pole.
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Thanks for the replies I don't use a controller but I have a pole tap that I use to turn water off between windows which does save a lot of water.
Also if I need to vary the flow I turn the valve a bit.
It seems thus far to work very well.
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I worked like Peter for 2 years, I would never go back to it, it was a total pain!!
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A controller is a must if you have hot water, or the pressure builds up to much and starts blowing connectors.
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I worked like Peter for 2 years, I would never go back to it, it was a total pain!!
How does he work, is it using no controller?
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Back to the original thread -
When you change batteries, what prevents you from accidently putting the crocodile clips on the wrong terminals - anything?
The controller thread within the original thread.
Winproclean is set in his ways on this one. Peter is talking sense. (and yes I go back far enough to remember using Peter's "useless" on off remote with my trolley system ;D)
I dropped a flow controller years ago - waste of time and money. I use a tap on my belt between the end of the reel hose and where the pole hose clips in.
So I've tried a remote; a controller; a tap on the belt.
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A controller is a must if you have hot water, or the pressure builds up to much and starts blowing connectors.
Lee that will only be the case if you don't set the pressure switch screw on the pump. Now the pumps comes fully screwed in as standard so as the pressure builds up far too much and people think a controller is necessary. It's not.
This may have went a bit off subject a bit, but it lets the original poster know that there is an alternative to a flow controller, and if he wasn't using a flow controller he wouldn't be having the problem he is now. While I am at it I want him to realise that by eliminating a controller which is the most problematic part of any system, he won't be using more water per window. He will be using more water per day though, but will be earning more money, or finished his work much quicker.
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A controller is a must if you have hot water, or the pressure builds up to much and starts blowing connectors.
Lee that will only be the case if you don't set the pressure switch screw on the pump. Now the pumps comes fully screwed in as standard so as the pressure builds up far too much and people think a controller is necessary. It's not.
This may have went a bit off subject a bit, but it lets the original poster know that there is an alternative to a flow controller, and if he wasn't using a flow controller he wouldn't be having the problem he is now. While I am at it I want him to realise that by eliminating a controller which is the most problematic part of any system, he won't be using more water per window. He will be using more water per day though, but will be earning more money, or finished his work much quicker.
Peter, do you know if it possible to adjust the pressure switch on a shuroflo pump? I know you can on the flojets, but I haven't got one of those, only a shurflo
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lots of things are unnecessary in this job. took me five years to realise a leisure battery was unnecessary. Aquadapter - unnecessary, carbon - unnecessary, trad skills - unnecessary and so on.
However, lots of products help the controller being one of them, provided you've got a good one. I had two varistreams brand new one after the other - utter crap! Now I have the simplest analogue from Spring and it's been superb. I've even left the van switched on overnight and pressured up without a problem.
How do you guys alter the pressure on a frosty morning? Or don't you?
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A controller is a must if you have hot water, or the pressure builds up to much and starts blowing connectors.
Lee that will only be the case if you don't set the pressure switch screw on the pump. Now the pumps comes fully screwed in as standard so as the pressure builds up far too much and people think a controller is necessary. It's not.
This may have went a bit off subject a bit, but it lets the original poster know that there is an alternative to a flow controller, and if he wasn't using a flow controller he wouldn't be having the problem he is now. While I am at it I want him to realise that by eliminating a controller which is the most problematic part of any system, he won't be using more water per window. He will be using more water per day though, but will be earning more money, or finished his work much quicker.
Peter, do you know if it possible to adjust the pressure switch on a shuroflo pump? I know you can on the flojets, but I haven't got one of those, only a shurflo
Yes Lee there is a little Allen head screw on the black switch part at the very end inside a small round hole. You will probably find its screwed all the way in. Turn it anticlockwise until its say level with the hole entry, set up your system with brush etc and have it running. Screw in until it runs continuous.
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A controller is a must if you have hot water, or the pressure builds up to much and starts blowing connectors.
Lee that will only be the case if you don't set the pressure switch screw on the pump. Now the pumps comes fully screwed in as standard so as the pressure builds up far too much and people think a controller is necessary. It's not.
This may have went a bit off subject a bit, but it lets the original poster know that there is an alternative to a flow controller, and if he wasn't using a flow controller he wouldn't be having the problem he is now. While I am at it I want him to realise that by eliminating a controller which is the most problematic part of any system, he won't be using more water per window. He will be using more water per day though, but will be earning more money, or finished his work much quicker.
Peter, do you know if it possible to adjust the pressure switch on a shuroflo pump? I know you can on the flojets, but I haven't got one of those, only a shurflo
Yes Lee there is a little Allen head screw on the black switch part at the very end inside a small round hole. You will probably find its screwed all the way in. Turn it anticlockwise until its say level with the hole entry, set up your system with brush etc and have it running. Screw in until it runs continuous.
Thanks Peter, I'm still going to use a contoller though ;D, but sometimes the DE won't set quite right as I use hot water, so if I set the pressure switch, then it will help prevent too much pressure build up.
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Unless the unit is faulty (lots of people had trouble with MKII digi' varistreams) there is nothing problematic about a controller.
They only become problematic if you don't understand how they work! When you understand them, there is no issue- as you know why it's doing what it's doing & so make any appropriate adjustment. You have to understand how one works combined with YOUR particular set up too. How many times do we see the same questions on here- pump keeps stopping, red light on, green light on, P1 flashing, something else flashing etc etc. Once you understand what all these mean & why they happen hey-ho, no problem anymore.
No offence meant but Peter's comments reflect perfectly someone who doesn't understand fully electronic controllers & so has taken the unnecessary & backward step of using a bypass system- probably with a levered ball valve on it & pump running flat out, drawing max amps 100% of the time. There is absolutely no need to do this & unless you run with full flow all the time you'll be constantly running back to the van to adjust the ball valve as your pole goes higher & the flow drops etc.
I ran like that for 2 years 'cos I didn't know any better back then & that is what I was sold to begin with. Then I got a MKI digi' varistream & just couldn't believe what I'd been missing & how I'd managed without it. Exactly the same happened to a mate of mine too. The bypass system is a backward step for anyone IMO AND experience, It's a shame that seemingly, so many people do not grasp the understanding of their system & controller as once done, there really is no going back.
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Dave, my point is its only necessary if you want to turn the water flow down. I would never want to do that so in my case a controller would be completely unnecessary. All that it could possible add in my cases is problems, without any benefits whatsoever. That could be the case for others as well if they have a lot of problems with controllers. There are alternative ways of working.
Winp the key is in your above statement, my point is why would you not want to be on full flow all the time? My unnecessary and backward step allows me to clean a window in half the time someone who has not taken that unnecessary and backward step. I know quite a bit about PWM, done quite a bit of research actually. It's a shame that so many people learn to use something that is completely unnecessary, problematic, and slows them down. If that's progress then yes I don't want any part if it.
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Dave, my point is its only necessary if you want to turn the water flow down. I would never want to do that so in my case a controller would be completely unnecessary. All that it could possible add in my cases is problems, without any benefits whatsoever. That could be the case for others as well if they have a lot of problems with controllers. There are alternative ways of working.
Winp the key is in your above statement, my point is why would you not want to be on full flow all the time? My unnecessary and backward step allows me to clean a window in half the time someone who has not taken that unnecessary and backward step. I know quite a bit about PWM, done quite a bit of research actually. It's a shame that so many people learn to use something that is completely unnecessary, problematic, and slows them down. If that's progress then yes I don't want any part if it.
There IS a minimum amount of time required to clean any window- to give a spot free & acceptable standard! Any experienced WFP'er would agree surely. We are not talking about the difference between full flow & a trickle here, but rather full flow Vs optimum flow (FF vs OF). FF will clean the window NO faster than OF but WILL use more water doing it, fact! You can't have OF with a bypass because there is nothing to monitor & sense any drop or increase in pressure & adjust the flow accordingly for you. So with a bypass, the higher you go the less flow you get, drop the pole & you get more flow- unless you're prepared to constantly run back & forth to the van to adjust it this is how it is UNLESS you use full flow!! You see, that's why people use full flow, they don't really have another reasonable option! They then convince themselves it's better/faster & even saves water!!! ;D ;D ;D
So, to answer your question Peter- you run on full flow because not to do so would make the job too much hassle & you'd never achieve any degree of an "optimum" flow! ;)
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But you can vary the flow if you have a pole tap instantly.
There are only a few rare occasions when I don't use full flow but it's handy when it's needed.
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No I use full flow because it is faster to clean a window. Forget the bypass that is there for people in certain circumstances for whatever reason need to reduce the flow short term, as far as I am concerened its not even needed but is there for someone who wants to reduce flow. Your minimum time required to clean the window could be double my time to clean the same window, or half someone else's time for the same window. Who decides this imaginary optimum flow? Do you have any scientific data to back that up? What setting would that be on your flow controller? Would anyone using a slightly different setting be wasting water, or time??
Yes there may be an optimum flow for each individual set by the speed they work at personally. I am not talking about the speed they walk to the window, or the speed they move from window to window. The only thing relevant is the speed that the brush moves over the glass. Even a slow worker can move his brush faster, and by doing so can increase productivity without wasting water, and by doing so can eliminate one of the most problematic bits of equipment in any WFP system. He can be cleaning window and making money while others learn how to use a flow controller so that they can earn less per hour, or work more hours.
If you want me to discuss this further you have to accept we are talking full flow or your reduced flow.
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No I use full flow because it is faster to clean a window. Forget the bypass that is there for people in certain circumstances for whatever reason need to reduce the flow short term, as far as I am concerened its not even needed but is there for someone who wants to reduce flow. Your minimum time required to clean the window could be double my time to clean the same window, or half someone else's time for the same window. Who decides this imaginary optimum flow? Do you have any scientific data to back that up? What setting would that be on your flow controller? Would anyone using a slightly different setting be wasting water, or time??
Yes there may be an optimum flow for each individual set by the speed they work at personally. I am not talking about the speed they walk to the window, or the speed they move from window to window. The only thing relevant is the speed that the brush moves over the glass. Even a slow worker can move his brush faster, and by doing so can increase productivity without wasting water, and by doing so can eliminate one of the most problematic bits of equipment in any WFP system. He can be cleaning window and making money while others learn how to use a flow controller so that they can earn less per hour, or work more hours.
If you want me to discuss this further you have to accept we are talking full flow or your reduced flow.
With respect, I don't think there is much point Peter.
I can only assume you don't do much window cleaning any more & haven't done for some time. Your time to clean a window won't be any faster than mine I can assure you but you will use more water than me. Regardless, you do not have a credible argument on speed alone, to think so would strongly support my above assumption.
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But with my full flow restricted as necessary with a tap on my belt I have the simplest option.
If you have a flow controller then how do you change the flow rate from window to window as needed?
If you have no tap to hand how do you change the flow rate from window to window as needed?
E.g. A side of as house with 3 upvc windows above two lower windows and a slightly leaky wooden Georgian door.
I clean the top three on full flow (starting above the Georgian door), but when wiping the cills, turn off the flow with my tap to reduce dripping on the windows below. While allowing the drips to stop I do the Georgian door by reducing the flow with my tap so as not to get water inside the letterbox, frame etc.
I then go back to full flow for the downstairs upvc windows.
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No I use full flow because it is faster to clean a window. Forget the bypass that is there for people in certain circumstances for whatever reason need to reduce the flow short term, as far as I am concerened its not even needed but is there for someone who wants to reduce flow. Your minimum time required to clean the window could be double my time to clean the same window, or half someone else's time for the same window. Who decides this imaginary optimum flow? Do you have any scientific data to back that up? What setting would that be on your flow controller? Would anyone using a slightly different setting be wasting water, or time??
Yes there may be an optimum flow for each individual set by the speed they work at personally. I am not talking about the speed they walk to the window, or the speed they move from window to window. The only thing relevant is the speed that the brush moves over the glass. Even a slow worker can move his brush faster, and by doing so can increase productivity without wasting water, and by doing so can eliminate one of the most problematic bits of equipment in any WFP system. He can be cleaning window and making money while others learn how to use a flow controller so that they can earn less per hour, or work more hours.
If you want me to discuss this further you have to accept we are talking full flow or your reduced flow.
With respect, I don't think there is much point Peter.
I can only assume you don't do much window cleaning any more & haven't done for some time. Your time to clean a window won't be any faster than mine I can assure you but you will use more water than me. Regardless, you do not have a credible argument on speed alone, to think so would strongly support my above assumption.
No problem we will leave it at that. I don't see how many windows I clean at this present time is relevant. You have not been the first, and certainly won't be the last person I have came across with that exact same attitude. Hopefully I have done enough for people to think about options, and not just settle for the status quo.
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Granville, I would do that all on full flow but instead of reducing the flow on the leaky window I would turn the flow off for a certain amount of that time so less water would be used. Just like if I came across a window with some stubborn birds dirt on it, then again I would turn the full flow off while I delt with it and again back to full flow again. BTW that's how PWM (pulse with modulation) works. The pump has full power supplied to it, but its only supplied for a certain amount of time. A pump turned down to half way with a flow controller, will be on for half a second and off for half a second.
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foggy
you ain't cleaned any windows since 1982
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Interesting discussion on flow rate, yet not one mention of actual flow rate being used ???
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I want to know how many litres a minute optimum flow is and is optimum flow the same for a window covered in dirt or salt?
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Anyone got an idiots guide to setting up without a flow controller wiring etc would appreciate been having same problems with flow controller would appreciate step by step guide
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If you do a search I think there's a wiring diagram on here somewhere.
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Mrwindows its easy to see what my flow rate is, just turn the pump up full.
Ross. My optimum through no choice because I can't adjust it up, is up full a 100psi pump going through a 100M microbore. Makes no difference the state of the window because its on full anyway.
Dave I have a wiring diagram of a relay wired up to a pump. If you set up the pressure switch properly the relay is not so important. I would say its worth having though. I will look it out and email it to you Monday if you like?
I have posted a picture of the diagram on here a while back.
It's surprising how much problems there is with controllers, I have personally bypassed quite a few for people who have came to the workshop for help. I could have easily sold them a controller at X amount of money, but instead sold them on the idea that the controller was not necessary, and they were not saving water, and they were faster on full power. It cost them nothing, and cut any likely future problems by more than 50 percent. These were average window cleaners who never had a clue what the problem was, whether it was the pump or the controller. As soon as I see the controller I know that's the problem.
Having said all the above you have to be prepared to work on full flow or keep the controller. You could however buy a smaller pump and don't bother with a controller.
I have about 10 PWM controllers in the workshop I had bought for something else, that cost under £10 each and I wouldn't even fit them in a pump box, or sell to guys with faulty controllers as I simply don't think the pump should be used on anything less than full.
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Peter the point i'm making is your pump might have a different lpm than mine or winpro.
you're assuming all pumps are the same which they are not.
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Mrwindows its easy to see what my flow rate is, just turn the pump up full.
Ross. My optimum through no choice because I can't adjust it up, is up full a 100psi pump going through a 100M microbore. Makes no difference the state of the window because its on full anyway.
Dave I have a wiring diagram of a relay wired up to a pump. If you set up the pressure switch properly the relay is not so important. I would say its worth having though. I will look it out and email it to you Monday if you like?
I have posted a picture of the diagram on here a while back.
It's surprising how much problems there is with controllers, I have personally bypassed quite a few for people who have came to the workshop for help. I could have easily sold them a controller at X amount of money, but instead sold them on the idea that the controller was not necessary, and they were not saving water, and they were faster on full power. It cost them nothing, and cut any likely future problems by more than 50 percent. These were average window cleaners who never had a clue what the problem was, whether it was the pump or the controller. As soon as I see the controller I know that's the problem.
Having said all the above you have to be prepared to work on full flow or keep the controller. You could however buy a smaller pump and don't bother with a controller.
I have about 10 PWM controllers in the workshop I had bought for something else, that cost under £10 each and I wouldn't even fit them in a pump box, or sell to guys with faulty controllers as I simply don't think the pump should be used on anything less than full.
These were average window cleaners who never had a clue what the problem was, whether it was the pump or the controller. As soon as I see the controller I know that's the problem.
That's a ridiculous attitude Peter. Neither you nor those poor guys never knew what the problem even was then as you just decided it was the controller!! ??? ::)roll
It could have been as simple as air in the system (compressing thus throwing the DE setting off). There are many very simple things that these problems could have been- even down to just ambient temperature! ::)roll
I'm sorry but for someone in your position this really does beggar belief!! You have proven my initial suspicion- you haven't a clue what the purpose of or how to set up & use a controller!
I'M OUT!! ::)roll
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Mrwindows its easy to see what my flow rate is, just turn the pump up full.
Ross. My optimum through no choice because I can't adjust it up, is up full a 100psi pump going through a 100M microbore. Makes no difference the state of the window because its on full anyway.
Peter, about 2 years ago my flow controller went wrong, yet again, and after buying yet another battery only to get the same fault a few weeks later, I smashed the thing to pieces with a club hammer.
I havn't used a flow controller since and I don't know why anyone bothers with them.
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Winp I am glad your out. I don't have to put up with someone like you submising this and submising that. You don't have a clue what type of controller they had, what the problem was with it, or what I checked to find out what the problem was. You have no idea what my knowledge is on any particular subject controllers included. Why can't people like you let other people have different opinions, without you playing the almighty and rubbishing them? Someone was having a problem with a controller like so many do and I offered an alternative, why should that upset you so much? Does it have to be your way or no way? One things for sure the guys that came to me with the controller problem won't have that same problem again. The guy that started this post wouldn't be having this problem, I see you have not sorted it out for him have you?
If you know so much about flow controllers why don't you make one with no user input, one that the ordinary window cleaner doesn't need a degree in electronics to operate? One that you just turn on and off, and up and down, and it continues to work? People have problems with controllers, I want to tell them they are not necessary. People that have never had a problem just ignores it as it doesn't effect them.
Sorry mrwindows I will check to see what the flow rate is as its not something I have to tell people, or check the pumps. The ones I use are the same all the time. I can say though no matter what one it is I would have it on full. I used the 60psi on full, and when I moved up to the 100psi it was still full.
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That's a ridiculous attitude Peter. Neither you nor those poor guys never knew what the problem even was then as you just decided it was the controller!! ??? ::)roll
It could have been as simple as air in the system (compressing thus throwing the DE setting off). There are many very simple things that these problems could have been- even down to just ambient temperature! ::)roll
I'm sorry but for someone in your position this really does beggar belief!! You have proven my initial suspicion- you haven't a clue what the purpose of or how to set up & use a controller!
I'M OUT!! ::)roll
[/quote]
Why would he use a controller he's made his point, you do not need a controller
now as some one who cleans a lot of windows every day for over 10 years with out a controller (have got one) they are pointless for the window cleaner who wants to go out do his shift and make money this is a expense that is not necessary gadgets are an income for many in this industry and although I have wasted a lot on the latest gadgets the fact Peter is on here trying to save anyone money is a credit to him.
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Peter would appreciate diagram have 2 x shurflo 100psi ...dgarrett@ntlworld.com ( also where can i purchase said parts req'd )
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Paul C
I had a customer renew his pump last year who was one of my very first customers, had his pump over 10 years and its never seen a controller, its a Sureflo. The battery is the same as the water, yes you will go through the battery power faster but per window you should be using the same, if you can use your pump on full flow, and again like the water get more done in a day. You should consider a split charge relay, they are easy to fit and save a lot of trouble charging and moving heavy batteries around.
Dave, its just a cheap standard car relay you need and a few spade connectors you can buy at any Autoparts shop or Maplins. Maplins also do a replacement pump switch for the pumps if you ever need to replace them. I can send you the part No's for them as well if you like?
If any of my customers have a problem with the pump and phone me up it is either drawing air or the relay needs replaced 9 out of 10 times. I can pinpoint the problem in about 2 minutes into the phone call, and they have the relay next morning if they don't have a spare themselves. No waiting a few weeks to find out if they have reversed the polarity or whatever. I have a guy at the moment who bought one of my system second hand and he phoned me up with problems, which turns out his relay need replaced. I sent him a relay, and put in a replacement pressure switch as well just incase that goes as well. He tried to fit the relay and ended up getting the wires mixed up even after I told him to take one off at a time. He admitted that he is clueless even with basic tasks like this and asked if he could stick the whole pump box in a box and send it to me, which I told him yes. He will get the box back all working and tested, and will just plug it in and he will be working again. How would this particular chap get on trouble shooting his system if he had a controller as well? What and where would he send to who? Now I know we are not all like this guy but believe me there are lots of people cleaning windows who are. Now I will have customers as cleaver as winp and for them if they want to go out and buy a controller for whatever reason they see fit then fine that's up to them, I personally don't want a shelf full of broken controllers.
I am a great believer in keeping things simple.
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Hi again Paul, you don't charge a battery every night do you?
I am not saying the flojet is not better as I have not had much experience with it. What I have came across though if they get frozen it breaks the black plastic part that holds the switch on. I have alway found the Shurflo to be very reliable, and your right about the garantee, but I cover this myself. I once sent back two pumps that were faulty to the main distributer, had to buy two as replacements while they check them out to see if the garantee covered them. Got them back two or three weeks later saying there was nothing wrong with them. Now any my customers buying a replacement pump pays a little extra, and I cover the guarantee myself. Imaging if that was a customer? he would have bought 3 pumps, and ended up with one working and two no use.
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Peter (or anyone in the know) can I ask you, I have a varistream (2nd gen) controller with shurflo 100psi, for sometime now it never reaches full pressure on controlleras it used to flash 'P' when reached shortly after shut off. Do you know why this might have stopped? Ps, sorry to jib in on this thread.
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Fin I am probably not the best person to ask. I do know a bit about them but others wil know much more. I don't really understand what your asking, could you reword it?
Are you saying the P used to flash when you dead ended, and now it doesn't? Are you meaning the controller is not shutting the pump off when you stop the water?
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Fin I am probably not the best person to ask. I do know a bit about them but others wil know much more. I don't really understand what your asking, could you reword it?
Are you saying the P used to flash when you dead ended, and now it doesn't? Are you meaning the controller is not shutting the pump off when you stop the water?
Sorry about my Dutch Peter! I'm probably not using the correct terminology. Yes I do mean the controller is not shutting the pump off when you stop the water. It used to though as the controller used to start flashing 'p' for pressure reached which in turn stopped the pump. Now the controller doesn't flash 'p' and it just stays on the number (for flow rate) until I return to the van with the pump still working (although hardly at all as I suppose it still thinks the max pressure hasn't reached). Hope this makes more sense! Cheers
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Fin have a look at this link, it seems like you don't have it set properly..
http://acsforums.com/yabbfiles/Attachments/USER_GUIDE_VariStream_VSD6.pdf
Dave the relay is Code N02AW
Pessure Switch in case you need one is GW71N
Both available at Maplins.
Paul a good leisure battery fully charged should last around two days without a split charge relay.
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Fin have a look at this link, it seems like you don't have it set properly..
http://acsforums.com/yabbfiles/Attachments/USER_GUIDE_VariStream_VSD6.pdf
Dave the relay is Code N02AW
Pessure Switch in case you need one is GW71N
Both available at Maplins.
Paul a good leisure battery fully charged should last around two days without a split charge relay.
Thankyou Peter, I'll take a look. :)
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The pump is a shurflo 100psi and was new with the controller the pressure cut off is set around half way. The unit was sent to pure freedom for the sole reason of fuses being blown one after the other. It was only today that we was told its our fault because the diote has blown and according to purefreedom the unit is at the manufacterer.
Thank you for the confirm on controller location Liam.
Wow this has been a busy thread over the weekend. A controller does far more than simply adjust the speed of a pump. Is it the only way to conserve water? that depends on the individual and the way they work.
I also personally feel that Water Volume as opposed to how fast the water is flowing is the important consideration and the ability to adjust the volume than become important.
I am also unsure how simply running water fast EG pump flat out makes cleaning quicker?
If you can clean an external French pane (cut-up) window in 19 seconds .. how much faster can you get by doubling your water flow ? The bio-mechanics of the human effort limit the top end.
You still have the same area of glass to cover no matter how fast the flow is. There are other factors to take into account. Eg pump size- hose size – efficiency of the motor – pressure required.
There will be occassions where a fast flow is necessary. Equally there is a need to be able to regulate flow to suit the conditions and the job at hand, therefore giving the user flexibility is key. In short, use only the water you need at each job.
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One thing everyone forgets is that there are two elements to cleaning glass - brush and rinse. If all we were doing is squirting a window then a very quick burst of high volume water would be quicker than a longer steady flow.
Basically we need just enough water to carry the agitated dirt from the top of the glass to the bottom. A small pane therefore needs far less water than a massive shop window. This is the reason I need to be able to vary the flow rather than simply flat out on or completely off. Something an aquadapter can't do I believe.
The brushing time I would presume can't be altered - most of us scrub the least we think we can get away with but are never sure because we can't see what's happening.
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You're half right with the aquadapter Dave.. when the pole is extended, you pull the hose and water is either on or off, but on low level You can adjust the tap at brushhead from full flow to a trickle..
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I bought a new flow controller from Pure Freedom about 4 months ago. It worked fine for a few weeks then started blowing fuses for no reason as it was wired correctly and I sent it back to Pure Freedom who had it repaired and said there was a fault on the unit and its fine now got it back and re-fitted it and it worked fine for about 2-3 weeks then the same thing happend again I called Pure Freedom back and told them I was told to send it back and they would send me a replacement, 2 weeks on heard nothing so I called them they said it was still sat on the shelf they hadnt looked at it yet and they will get straight onto it.
Today I called them again (couple of days later) and they said I had to pay for the repairs as it was me that had caused the damage a diode inside the unit had blew due to reverse polority with is impossible as it had been working fine and then suddenly started blowing fuses the wiring was fine and had not been touched so how can it be my fault, I have told them to send the varistream back with a statement and I am going to get an independent electronics expert to check it for me and will be passed onto trading standards.
I told them this and it cant be my fault and was basically told I was a liar and its the laws of physics that its been wired wrong,
I have used Pure freedom for about 7 years and spent alot of money with them. and get customer service like that.
I will NOT be using them again
Be warned !
I have had an opportunity to Speak with both PF and our engineer re this control. The control was bought in October of 2012, and was first returned to us on the 9th April 2013. Report from customer is the fuse constantly blew.
On inspection of the control the reverse polarity diode had blown due to miss wiring.
We have for some time been protecting the processor and PCB against miss wiring by placing a diode on the power input.
Direct current DC will pass through a circuit in one direction only think of it as putting a vehicle in in 1st gear the car can now only move forward. Trying to engage reverse while traveling forward at speed will destroy the gear box.
As such correct polarity becomes very important in a DC device in that the power can only flow in one direction. The position of the diode means that there is only reason for the diode to blow.
Current would only need to flow in the wrong direction for a fraction of a second so as already suggested in the Thread it would be enough to touch the negative terminal of the battery with the positive connector.
At this point dependent on the battery size and if it is fully charged you have the full current available passing through the circuit the wrong way. For example if an 85AH battery is used then 85 amps are passing across the control in that moment.
As the controller has been miss wired any fuse is bypassed. The Processor we fit has a maximum current rating of 10amps so putting 85 across it completely destroys the PCB and processor.
To avoid this permanent damage we fit the diode.
Despite the fact that the control had been miss wired when returned in April and not covered by our warranty. We repaired it free as an act of goodwill and advised this at the time.
On receipt of the control again around the 10th May the reverse polarity diode has again be blown.
Unfortunately no matter how you look at this passing current the wrong way around a DC powered device will blow it up.
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Ian, once the diode is blown - what happens when you reconnect the battery terminals the correct way round? Will it then blow the inline fuse (if you have one) or simply not work at all?
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Thanks for looking into it for us. But we are back to were we started the first repair we was told there was a fault fixed under warranty no mention of miss wiring or goodwill gesture.
As for the miss wiring how can it be wired correctly run the pump and then blow a fuse ? Then blow another and another. To me a fuse blowing tells me there is a short some and it wasnt the external wiring.
Can you say 100% that its impossible for the unit to short from the inside?
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Ian, once the diode is blown - what happens when you reconnect the battery terminals the correct way round? Will it then blow the inline fuse (if you have one) or simply not work at all?
Looks like this is the key question and could prove if the polarity had been reversed or not.
Surely its not hard to put something in that would protect the unit and the diode, if the polarity is reversed?
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One thing everyone forgets is that there are two elements to cleaning glass - brush and rinse. If all we were doing is squirting a window then a very quick burst of high volume water would be quicker than a longer steady flow.
Basically we need just enough water to carry the agitated dirt from the top of the glass to the bottom. A small pane therefore needs far less water than a massive shop window. This is the reason I need to be able to vary the flow rather than simply flat out on or completely off. Something an aquadapter can't do I believe.
The brushing time I would presume can't be altered - most of us scrub the least we think we can get away with but are never sure because we can't see what's happening.
We can move the brush at a faster speed though. With a small pane you are on the glass for a much shorter period of time to deliver the water it needs. A large pane needs more water so you are on that pane longer.
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I think my brush speed is the same on every job I do. I dould make my arms go like bees wings i suppose. Not something that interests me to be honest.
I like a steady day with the lightest equipment available, return home refreshed with energy to spare. Sod the money. ;D
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Thanks for looking into it for us. But we are back to were we started the first repair we was told there was a fault fixed under warranty no mention of miss wiring or goodwill gesture.
As for the miss wiring how can it be wired correctly run the pump and then blow a fuse ? Then blow another and another. To me a fuse blowing tells me there is a short some and it wasnt the external wiring.
Can you say 100% that its impossible for the unit to short from the inside?
Hi Dave/Liam following a miss wire and and blowing the reverse polarity diode, Once the cables are re connected with correct polarity yes the fuse will blow.
This is because following the miss wire it is likely to have caused a short across the board on reconnection of the cables with correct polarity the short will cause the fuse to blow.
The original fault was caused by miss wiring the controller. This tends to happen following a battery change. The battery is disconnected for a re charge on reconnection the positive cable connector only needs to be in contact momentarily with the negative terminal of the battery for a very short period.
The way the PCB is designed built and tested plus how we position the diode. Yes I can be 100% sure that only an external miss wire would cause this diode to blow.
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I did a miss wire and it blew the fuse surely that's what the fuse is for?
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Wow this has been a busy thread over the weekend. A controller does far more than simply adjust the speed of a pump. Is it the only way to conserve water? that depends on the individual and the way they work.
I don't think it is a way to conserve water, it is just a way to reduce flow to the brush.
More convenient than a bypass if you are on a reduced flow for a long period, but like you already know I think that is detrimental to a window cleaners speed, rather than saving him water
I also personally feel that Water Volume as opposed to how fast the water is flowing is the important consideration and the ability to adjust the volume than become important.
Coming out a brush the pressure and flow is relevant. The more pressure pushing up the pipe the more water at the brush.
I am also unsure how simply running water fast EG pump flat out makes cleaning quicker?
It allows you to move the brush faster, so work quicker with the same amount of water.
If you can clean an external French pane (cut-up) window in 19 seconds .. how much faster can you get by doubling your water flow ? The bio-mechanics of the human effort limit the top end.
Depends on the individual. Supposing the water was coming out too fast and you come across say a window with cut ups and it needed a good scrub, you just give it a wetting, turn the water off for however long needed, turn it back on again and finish off. Are you proposing they would go back to the van and reset the controller for maybe one window? The way I just described is more or less the principal on how a controller works, without the expense or problems associated with them.
We will always disagree on this Ian.
Dave W, I don't think your arms need to go like bees wings. It just means your brush needs to be on the glass for a shorter period of time than it is just now.
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I did a miss wire and it blew the fuse surely that's what the fuse is for?
Me too.
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I think we will have to agree to disagree, we will have the unit back and have it looked at by an idependant electronics expert and see if he can shed any light on it.
Thanks
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I did a miss wire and it blew the fuse surely that's what the fuse is for?
No as explained, because the current went the opposite way it never got to the fuse until it was on the way back out, and after it had done the damage to the diode.
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Out of interest how much would the repair cost ?
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I did a miss wire and it blew the fuse surely that's what the fuse is for?
No as explained, because the current went the opposite way it never got to the fuse until it was on the way back out, and after it had done the damage to the diode.
Does seem a shame that something so easily done can cost so much. Most things nowadays have reverse polarity protection, because people will always make the mistake of putting the wrong cable on the wrong terminal. Bill I have the cheap PWM controllers that I mentioned earlier, you are welcome to one FOC if your interested? You can just pay the postage.
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I did a miss wire and it blew the fuse surely that's what the fuse is for?
From what's been said it would appear that the mis-wiring blew the diode, which it did to protect the components on the main board. The fuse kept blowing because of that initial mistake.
In what way is that anyones fault but the person installing it incorrectly?
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I did a miss wire and it blew the fuse surely that's what the fuse is for?
No as explained, because the current went the opposite way it never got to the fuse until it was on the way back out, and after it had done the damage to the diode.
Does seem a shame that something so easily done can cost so much. Most things nowadays have reverse polarity protection, because people will always make the mistake of putting the wrong cable on the wrong terminal.
Perhaps they should RTFM!
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The cost of repair is £30.00 + vat and postage.
If you would prefer the control returned in its current condition we can also do this.
As previously said it is very important to have correct polarity with a DC device. Also it is essential to fit the appropriate fuse.
Thank you for you input peter re the fuse.
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I did a miss wire and it blew the fuse surely that's what the fuse is for?
No as explained, because the current went the opposite way it never got to the fuse until it was on the way back out, and after it had done the damage to the diode.
Does seem a shame that something so easily done can cost so much. Most things nowadays have reverse polarity protection, because people will always make the mistake of putting the wrong cable on the wrong terminal.
Perhaps they should RTFM!
Dave its an easy thing to do. We all know that its not supposed to be connected that way, but most of us will have done it at some time. In fact all it needs to do is touch for a split second.
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Dave its an easy thing to do. We all know that its not supposed to be connected that way, but most of us will have done it at some time. In fact all it needs to do is touch for a split second.
Have to disagree. Polarity is so important that it must be checked carefully before connecting anything. Anyone who connects - however briefly - without KNOWING its right is a fool.
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Why do you think that most things are protected against it? I have £12 battery chargers in the workshop which has reverse polarity protection. It will happen and that's why most items are protected against it.
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Thanks for looking into it for us. But we are back to were we started the first repair we was told there was a fault fixed under warranty no mention of miss wiring or goodwill gesture.
As for the miss wiring how can it be wired correctly run the pump and then blow a fuse ? Then blow another and another. To me a fuse blowing tells me there is a short some and it wasnt the external wiring.
Can you say 100% that its impossible for the unit to short from the inside?
Hi Dave/Liam following a miss wire and and blowing the reverse polarity diode, Once the cables are re connected with correct polarity yes the fuse will blow.
This is because following the miss wire it is likely to have caused a short across the board on reconnection of the cables with correct polarity the short will cause the fuse to blow.
The original fault was caused by miss wiring the controller. This tends to happen following a battery change. The battery is disconnected for a re charge on reconnection the positive cable connector only needs to be in contact momentarily with the negative terminal of the battery for a very short period.
The way the PCB is designed built and tested plus how we position the diode. Yes I can be 100% sure that only an external miss wire would cause this diode to blow.
I should also add that for a short to occur a power source is required. the controller has no internal power source.
Like the pump it derives its power from an external source in this case the 12V battery.
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Why do you think that most things are protected against it? I have £12 battery chargers in the workshop which has reverse polarity protection. It will happen and that's why most items are protected against it.
The error was in the actions of the person who didnt connect their controller correctly. Its not as though you connect a controller every day like you might a battery charger. This is a one-off. Why should an item be more expensive for all of us (thats what it means, remember, reverse polarity protection is not free) just because some berk cant read instructions the ONE time they have to connect it?
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Dave you don't know how many times he has disconnected his battery terminals, or connected them back up. It's not just a case of a one off when you connect your controller initially, it has the potential of this happening every time you connect the battery, which will be as many times as you use a charger. Yes it will cost money, the price of a fuse. It wouldn't need to cost anymore to add a fuse, and it would make the controller more desirable.
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Every one keeps banging on about reverse polority but it WAS NOT wired incorrectly this is my problem it was wired correctly I turned the conrtol unit on the pump run and then the fuse blew and then again and again but every insist were stupid or liars.
Ian please send the controller back to us as it is.
Peter thanks for your kind offer I would appreciate the controller I will happily pay the postage.
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No problem, can you send me your address to
peter@window-tools.com
Remember there is no garantee with it :D
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Dave you don't know how many times he has disconnected his battery terminals, or connected them back up. It's not just a case of a one off when you connect your controller initially, it has the potential of this happening every time you connect the battery, which will be as many times as you use a charger. Yes it will cost money, the price of a fuse. It wouldn't need to cost anymore to add a fuse, and it would make the controller more desirable.
Thats incorrect. A fuse will not prevent reverse polarity errors. A fuse only blows if too much current is drawn. A reverse current will fry components long before a fuse blows.
Anyway, I like the controller being a bit cheaper than it would be with the expense of the protection you desire because I take care when I connect things to batteries, so I get the goods cheaper and still somehow manage not to blow them.
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Neil I can arrange for the control to be returned to you directly is your address as that advised to PF on 8th April.
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yes the address is the same. thanks
you have an email peter.
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No sign yet and I am leaving the workshop. It's all wrapped up and I will post it tomorrow when I get the address.
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Well I reversed the polarity on varistream it just blew the fuse , replaced it with new fuse and it worked as normal?
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Peter I have sent you it again from my email
Thanks
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Well I reversed the polarity on varistream it just blew the fuse , replaced it with new fuse and it worked as normal?
same for me
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Well I reversed the polarity on varistream it just blew the fuse , replaced it with new fuse and it worked as normal?
I did the same, replaced fuse and away it went ;D
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Well I reversed the polarity on varistream it just blew the fuse , replaced it with new fuse and it worked as normal?
same for me
Yes. Here to. Ignore my post earlier where I misread. I connected back to front and all was fine hen I replaced the fuse.
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Still no sign of the email could you check to make sure you sent it to the right addres
peter@window-tools.com
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Have sent another email to peter@window-tools.com
Thanks peter hope it gets to you this time.
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Yes got the email this time.
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Great stuff, Thanks again