Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: JW1 on September 25, 2012, 01:02:49 pm
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Hi ;)
I've been a trad WC for the last 10 years and it's time for me to move to WFP.
I've thought of some questions, and wondered if any of you guys can help me out a bit please.
I have a boarded out Peugeot Expert van and don't know whether to have a full system installed in that, or have the kit in the garage and a smaller tank in the van?
Should I go for a trolley system or hose connected to the van?
When the pure water is being made, approx how much waste water will need to be dumped (I don't have mains drainage)?
What are the ongoing maintenance costs of WFP?
I'd prefer to have the kit installed by a local company in case there are problems in the future, does anyone know of a reliable company in the Milton Keynes/Northampton/Oxford area please (or surrounding area)?
How much tinkering/repairing is needed? (I'm used to filling up a bucket and off I go)
Are there concerns in icy/frosty weather overnight (I live in an exposed location)
here are some more details;
I'm a one man band (happy to stay that way) and usually do around 5 hours trad a day at a comfortable pace
Approx 80% Domestic 20% Commercial
Nothing too high
Can't think of anything else (at the moment) and sorry if it's posted in the wrong place.
Thanks in advance
ps if anyone nearby would let me tag along with them for an afternoon sometime I'd be really grateful.
Thanks in advance
Jon
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Hi mate
First thing you need to do is measure the TDS level of the water coming from your tap; this will affect your options regarding the type of system you can choose and the running costs.
I am van-mounted hose reel set up but others sing the praises of a trolley system; I can see the benefit for certain houses but couldn't be bothered with lugging one around myself.
The Peugeot will be fine for now and you can upgrade in the future if you feel it necessary; I use a Citroen Berlingo with no problems.
You do have to keep on top of maintenance issues as a broken pole/hose/tap can stop you working and therefore earning.
Frost can be an issue overnight and icy floor/freezing temp during the day can stop you working. I use a heater in the van in the morning for an hour or so and that seems to do the job in thawing out all the hoses to get me going.
You will eventually get quicker using WFP so you will find that you can work less hours or take on more work to earn more money - bonus!!
I started off with some basic poles because money was tight at the beginning - try to buy the best you can afford.
Good luck
Cheers,
Tom
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Hi mate
First thing you need to do is measure the TDS level of the water coming from your tap; this will affect your options regarding the type of system you can choose and the running costs. - OK, I'll buy a TDS meter (any advice on which one/where from?)
I am van-mounted hose reel set up but others sing the praises of a trolley system; I can see the benefit for certain houses but couldn't be bothered with lugging one around myself. - That's how I feel
The Peugeot will be fine for now and you can upgrade in the future if you feel it necessary; I use a Citroen Berlingo with no problems. - Good stuff
You do have to keep on top of maintenance issues as a broken pole/hose/tap can stop you working and therefore earning. - Although I'm fairly practical - I don't want to have to tinker around too much or get frustrated
Frost can be an issue overnight and icy floor/freezing temp during the day can stop you working. I use a heater in the van in the morning for an hour or so and that seems to do the job in thawing out all the hoses to get me going. - That shouldn't be a problem, but how about overnight or when I'm away for a week at Christmas?
You will eventually get quicker using WFP so you will find that you can work less hours or take on more work to earn more money - bonus!! - It will just be nice to get off the ladders and be able to get above conservatories etc
I started off with some basic poles because money was tight at the beginning - try to buy the best you can afford. - What sort of budget should I expect for a fully fitted system £2-3,000?
Good luck
Cheers,
Tom
Thanks for taking the time to reply Tom :)
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WHere are you based?
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Near Buckingham / Brackley / Bicester
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I'm in MK, can help you with install, advice etc if you get stuck. Email is in profile.
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I'm in MK, can help you with install, advice etc if you get stuck. Email is in profile.
Thanks for the offer, might take you up on that sometime :)
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Hi mate
First thing you need to do is measure the TDS level of the water coming from your tap; this will affect your options regarding the type of system you can choose and the running costs. - OK, I'll buy a TDS meter (any advice on which one/where from?) Here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/REVERSE-OSMOSIS-HM-DIGITAL-TDS-METER-/250996653020?pt=UK_HGKitchen_SmallApp_RL&hash=item3a7090fbdc&_uhb=1#ht_2005wt_1111
I am van-mounted hose reel set up but others sing the praises of a trolley system; I can see the benefit for certain houses but couldn't be bothered with lugging one around myself. - That's how I feel
The Peugeot will be fine for now and you can upgrade in the future if you feel it necessary; I use a Citroen Berlingo with no problems. - Good stuff
You do have to keep on top of maintenance issues as a broken pole/hose/tap can stop you working and therefore earning. - Although I'm fairly practical - I don't want to have to tinker around too much or get frustrated. As you get to know your system you will come to know which areas to inspect before you set off or carry out preventative maintenance on; this will prevent frustration by keeping an eye out for problems before they occur. There will be times when you are caught in the middle of nowhere with no spare parts and no way to fix the problem but these are rare and just add to the fun - and you will learn fast :-)
Frost can be an issue overnight and icy floor/freezing temp during the day can stop you working. I use a heater in the van in the morning for an hour or so and that seems to do the job in thawing out all the hoses to get me going. - That shouldn't be a problem, but how about overnight or when I'm away for a week at Christmas?
You will eventually get quicker using WFP so you will find that you can work less hours or take on more work to earn more money - bonus!! - It will just be nice to get off the ladders and be able to get above conservatories etc
I started off with some basic poles because money was tight at the beginning - try to buy the best you can afford. - What sort of budget should I expect for a fully fitted system £2-3,000?Difficult to say until you establish the TDS as that will determine whether you can look at DI or RO systems
Good luck
Cheers,
Tom
Thanks for taking the time to reply Tom :)
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Thanks - I've ordered that TDS meter - I guess it'll be my starting point :)
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Hi Jon,
Drop this guy an E-mail:
rcpropertymaintenance@hotmail.co.uk
Richard Clues in Northampton.
He's a good friend of mine and is a joined/plumber turned window cleaner.
He has fitted out his own Citroen Berlingo. He showed it at Vanfest.
I rang him and Iff you want he would be interested in helping you fitt out your van.
I know he would do a good job and would be able to customize to your ideas.
David
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Hi Jon,
Drop this guy an E-mail:
rcpropertymaintenance@hotmail.co.uk
Richard Clues in Northampton.
He's a good friend of mine and is a joined/plumber turned window cleaner.
He has fitted out his own Citroen Berlingo. He showed it at Vanfest.
I rang him and Iff you want he would be interested in helping you fitt out your van.
I know he would do a good job and would be able to customize to your ideas.
David
Thanks David. The only thing that I'd say is that I'd not be that useful doing it myself, so I'd probably be looking at more than 'help' :)
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Hi Jon give me a bell on 07730 474216 if you need any help, I also do some work in brackley and have some bits and bobs when you start to put the system together
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hi John
i too am in Mk, if you want to tag along for an hour or so or just look at my set up then give me a shout, or would even meet you halfway for a coffee and chat if you want, if I can be of help text me on 07594 817286
Graham
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hi John
i too am in Mk, if you want to tag along for an hour or so or just look at my set up then give me a shout, or would even meet you halfway for a coffee and chat if you want, if I can be of help text me on 07594 817286
Graham
Hi Jon give me a bell on 07730 474216 if you need any help, I also do some work in brackley and have some bits and bobs when you start to put the system together
Cheers for the offers of help :).
I'll wait until I get the TDS reading then post back here and we'll take it from there ;D
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Hi
I've got the TDS reading at last - 412 ???
Is it worth paying extra for a proper install with warranty, or accept the kind offers of assistance from this forum at a lower cost but without warranty?
With that reading is is possible to have a better idea of what sort of system I need and the ongoing costs etc?
Any thoughts on having the purification in the garage or putting everything in the van?
Trolley system or main tank etc
Thanks in advance
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You need to look at what demands will be put on your system, ie: how many litres a day you will require, will you expand, or happy with how busy you are, do you have storage space for a static system, and loads more questions similar to that, then design a system best suited to your requirements.
You can source ALL the equipment yourself, to suit YOUR requirements and budget.
The offers of help from people with experience are invaluable and cost you nothing.
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You need to look at what demands will be put on your system, ie: how many litres a day you will require, will you expand, or happy with how busy you are, do you have storage space for a static system, and loads more questions similar to that, then design a system best suited to your requirements.
You can source ALL the equipment yourself, to suit YOUR requirements and budget.
The offers of help from people with experience are invaluable and cost you nothing.
Sounds like good advice, thanks.
I've no idea how many litres a day I'll need - the only guide is that I work around 5 hours a day max, at a comfortable pace.
I would only expand if my existing work can be done in less time than I do it now, but I don't want to increase hours or employ anyone.
I have a single garage that could house a static system, is that the better way to go?
Cheers
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Benefits to both solutions, static and van mounted RO.
We have a static, with 2 x 1000l IBC's in a garage, using a submersible pump to deliver to the vans.
I like this because it means I dont have to have 2 RO set ups (1 in each van), and I can monitor water quality without being halfway through a job, realising a filter or my resin is shot, and having to stop a days work.
Also the system is less likely to get damaged in the garage, as I employ, there is a likliehood it would pick up damage if it were all in the van!
If you had a van mounted RO, then, for you, as a single operator, with no real plans to employ, then you are more likely to take care of it, and monitor quality etc, so no risk of damage. You can also simply plug your hose into the van, and leave it filling up overnight.
Saying that, if there are any issues, and you are not filled up for the days work, you could be in trouble.
In a garage your RO is away from frost, so cant get damaged, wheras unless your van is insulated or you heat it every night, it may freeze up and crack...
A static system has a little expense, such as transfer pump and hose and an IBC, but its easy to leave your IBC filling up when you are out, come home, fill it up, and be safe in the knowledge you are ready for work the following day.
Lots of variables as you can see!
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Thanks again :)
I think it makes sense to have it in the garage, away from the cold weather (my house is very exposed).
Once I know what system I'll need, and how many litres a day I'll use, will I be able to know how much waste is kicked out while the pure is being made? (ie for every 100 litres of pure made, xx litres of waste is created?)
I don't have mains drainage so the waste will have to flow out onto the garden.
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basically when using an RO system for every litre of pure water produced , a litre of water goes down the drain i am switching over to di only in the near future . Mike
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basically when using an RO system for every litre of pure water produced , a litre of water goes down the drain i am switching over to di only in the near future . Mike
Although I'm not 100% sure yet what the differences between the 2 are (my basic understanding is RO takes longer, is cheaper and produces more waste? DI uses more resin, but is quicker?)
Forgive my ignorance, I'm still learning. Is my reading of 412 high, medium or low?
If low, does that mean I should use DI instead of RO?
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You need an RO mate you must be in hard water area that reading is very high. Mike
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You need an RO mate you must be in hard water area that reading is very high. Mike
Ok, thanks.
So a RO, in the garage, pumped to the van or trolley each day?
How many litres a day might I need, and how long will it take to make?
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When you start up, you will use a lot of water until you get to know what you're doing.
To give you an idea, 2 men, 20-25 houses, uses about 4-500l.
There is no exact science to what you will need, as some like high flow, and rinse 2-3 times, some have a low flow and rinse once, so it's all theory until you get out there and try.
Our 4040 boosted system does around 150l per hour, give or take. This varies with the temperature.
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Ok, so on my own (once I've got used to using it) I'll probably need 200-400 litres a day, and I'll need to dispose of the amount in waste each day?
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Dispose or recycle yes. If you don't have mains drainage, 200 or 400l is a lot to dispose of daily in your garden!
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Dispose or recycle yes. If you don't have mains drainage, 200 or 400l is a lot to dispose of daily in your garden!
That's what I'm worried about. In icy weather is imagine that's a problem. Also if the ground is already waterlogged from rain etc.
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Ok, so on my own (once I've got used to using it) I'll probably need 200-400 litres a day, and I'll need to dispose of the amount in waste each day?
Yes. But don't worry unless you're on a meter. Then your water bill will about double.
But the extra you are charged you can put as business expense.
I'm not on a meter so those who may disagree.
David
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Fortunately, I'm not on a meter. So for the time being my main issue will be waste disposal I reckon.
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is there no drain close by?? my ro,di and static ibc tank is in my garage that is nearly 100ft from my tap and drain i just trail a hose up the garden to the drain!!
surely you cant out that amount of waste water onto your garden every day??
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Fortunately, I'm not on a meter. So for the time being my main issue will be waste disposal I reckon.
Is there nobody local to you that could sell you pure water? Sounds like you've got a bit of thinking to do!
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Well, the waste water from my house goes straight to the septic tank in the back garden and then to a soak away. I don't think it's a good idea putting an extra few hundred litres of water a day in there.
The rainwater from the roof goes into a separate (fairly small) soak away in the back garden, I'm not sure that can take 400l a day either.
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Fortunately, I'm not on a meter. So for the time being my main issue will be waste disposal I reckon.
Is there nobody local to you that could sell you pure water? Sounds like you've got a bit of thinking to do!
I didn't even know that's an option to be honest.
Surely there must be other WFP users that are not on mains drainage.
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I've thought about it for a few days, and decided not to let it stop me.
It was mentioned that a RO system could re-cycle the waste, how easy is that to set up?
If I go DI only (to reduce the waste water output) and lets say I average 400l per day (does that seem realistic?) how much per month might I have to spend on materials (is it just the resin?)
Also, using the same figure of 400l per day, how long would it take to make and how much waste would be made?
Cheers again :)
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http://www.gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/Resin%20Calculator.htm
Look at that, and you will see why you can't go DI only in a hard water area like ours.
Look at the thread and take notice of what has already been recommended to you :)
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http://www.gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/Resin%20Calculator.htm
Look at that, and you will see why you can't go DI only in a hard water area like ours.
Look at the thread and take notice of what has already been recommended to you :)
Ouch - point taken :o
So, I'm looking at trying to buy the water locally or try to dump 250-500l a day in the back garden (or over the back field?)
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Looks like it!
No drains out in the road?
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No, unfortunately not :(
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In that case, you really are going to struggle.
I can't see what options you have for your waste water.
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I've re-read the thread, and had a long discussion with Andrew at Pure Freedom (very helpful)
Looks like my only option is to buy the pure water, maybe once a week (1000 litres?)
I've searched the forum and spent some time on Google but I can't find a supplier nearby.
Any ideas where I might be able to buy from and how much per litre I should expect to pay?
Buckingham/Brackley/Bicester/Milton Keynes area ideally
Thanks
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Im in MK, and normally hold 2000l, so you can have some of that, however, it's a hell of a mission for you to come down here to get it, and what if you run out?!
It's really not ideal I wouldn't have thought?
Rent a small lock up?