Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: bobby p on July 10, 2012, 06:06:51 pm
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hes a great window cleaner ,but quite hot headed . hes only been on my insurance since May and if im honest i knew he drove a tad aggresively(but not over the speed limit if you get my drift) .
what made the accident worse was it happened only 10 feet from me as i sat in a coffee bar eating my lunch. he pulled across the highway , guessing a audi tt would brake for him,it didnt and BAM Bye bye Peugeot (great van she was )
Thing is what would you do now? no point crying over spilt milk(or oil in this case !!) , hes been the driver in a 2 man team getting good results . this leaves me with 1 van only and 5 of us workers. Convinced it wasnt his fault he hasnt said sorry
Anybody know how much insurance goes up by after a claim ? double?
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hes a great window cleaner , foreign lad,but quite hot headed . hes only been on my insurance since May and if im honest i knew he drove a tad aggresively(but not over the speed limit if you get my drift) .
what made the accident worse was it happened only 10 feet from me as i sat in a sandwich bar eating my lunch. he pulled across the highway , guessing an Audi tt would brake for him,it didnt and BAM Bye bye Peugeot (great van she was )
Thing is what would you do now? no point crying over spilt milk(or oil in this case !!) , hes been the driver in a 2 man team getting good results . this leaves me with 1 van only and 5 of us workers. Convinced it wasnt his fault he hasnt said sorry
Anybody know how much insurance goes up by after a claim ? double?
Sorry to hear that Bobby! But thats bad driving, you dont pull out HOPING someone will brake for you. And the fact he has not apologised, even if it wasnt his fault which it sounds like it is, you think he would apologise for the hassle you now have etc.
was it the blue or the green one?
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cheers Dan, im gutted if im honest ,that light blue van has been with me right from when i was on my lonesome, 7 years ,and it gave me no grief really
what added to it my R.A.C. recovery policy didnt cover me,not if you have a prang it turns out , i had to fork out an extra big fee to get the recovery
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Gutted mate.
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Sorry to hear about the van :(
Is the guy employed properly with you - as in PAYE?
If not tell him there is no work for him until you get another van on the road?
Andy
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u got a spare car / van ?
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hes employed properly. hes just this minute tex me that hes now been to the doctors and been signed off for the week with whiplash .
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hes employed properly. hes just this minute tex me that hes now been to the doctors and been signed off for the week with whiplash .
cheeky sod!!! he should drag himself in.
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hes employed properly. hes just this minute tex me that hes now been to the doctors and been signed off for the week with whiplash .
If he gets a claim in for whiplash and is succesful, expect your premiums to go up dramatically. Sounds like he might cost you more than he is worth.
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so heres a question for you boys....If a staff member writes off your van and it was their fault, can you sack them for negligence?
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hes employed properly. hes just this minute tex me that hes now been to the doctors and been signed off for the week with whiplash .
If he gets a claim in for whiplash and is succesful, expect your premiums to go up dramatically. Sounds like he might cost you more than he is worth.
if he puts a claim in thatll be the end ,no matter how good a cleaner he is. he knew he was in the wrong but he wanted me to back him up agenst the woman who he crashed into, but i didnt as i saw clearly from where i sat , maybe that is why he did not say sorry cos i didnt back him up .
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Tell him straight if he makes a claim you will probably have to cease trading
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hes employed properly. hes just this minute tex me that hes now been to the doctors and been signed off for the week with whiplash .
If he gets a claim in for whiplash and is succesful, expect your premiums to go up dramatically. Sounds like he might cost you more than he is worth.
if he puts a claim in thatll be the end ,no matter how good a cleaner he is. he knew he was in the wrong but he wanted me to back him up agenst the woman who he crashed into, but i didnt as i saw clearly from where i sat , maybe that is why he did not say sorry cos i didnt back him up .
i personally dont think he has whiplash as i dont think you get that much at slow speed head on crash and we all sat around for 3 hours after waiting on the recovery and no mention,in fact he went and had a full meal ,nobody else felt like eating
My "unprofessional opinion" (which counts for nothing) is that he probably is stretching the truth.
But in my experience the effects of a whiplash injury can become more noticeable some time after the accident.
I was in an RTA a few years ago, and the effect of a whiplash injury didn't become noticeable to me until 12-18 hours after the accident occurred.
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I thought I was having a rough time lately, you've just put our few issues into perspective as I would be in meltdown over this, especially if I had witnessed what you had. To add insult etc. he's throwing a sickie with no doubt a claim to follow........
You have my sympathy, I can't imagine he won't be going the whole hog with a personal injury claim, a fair bit of time off work etc.
This entire claim may well end up against your policy, unless you counter claim against the third party. If so then this will have to be advised during every insurance quote you get. In a word I'd say you're buggered.
One point, and it'll be an important one. Never admit liability at the scene. It's not your place to do so, it's for the insurances to battle out later. I know you saw the prang and in uour opinion he was in the wrong, but the insurance co might decide differently based on the facts as they see them.
One final point, do you not have a company vehicle / driver policy?
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i didnt admit liability to the other driver . she was a decent person and she knew that i knew , but i explained its down to the insurance to sort it out .
hes just been added in May onto my commercial van policy , just for that 1 van . he knows i have employee liability insurance for them all . hes built like a tank,bull necked, not a flimsy neck type by any means
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Just a little sidenote, a few years ago had a head on at about 30mph. Got out of the van in one piece, couple of hours later was working as normal no problem. Woke up in the following morning with an awful headache, pain down my neck to the top of shoulders. 8 Weeks physio and I still experience some pain and stiffness sometimes...
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this is really bad news for you. what a pain.
i know it may not be help in this instance but are you aware you can get insurance where you get a van with a fitted wfp system in the instance you have an accident. i have it and am covered with this vehicle if the accident was our fault or not.
if the accident is his fault he cant put a claim in whiplash... unless its against himself!
regarding your employee, this would really p me off. not the accident so much as he it was a stupid mistake of his (though of course that is frustrating). what really winds me up is his being signed off sick with whiplash. my own WC had a crash 2 weeks back (in his own car) and has whiplash himself, but he hasnt missed a day off work. he's been on pain killers, and whilst he's stiff he's still turning up every day and working a full day.
in our contract they are expected to drive the vehicle with care. i am pretty sure that i could get rid of someone after this type of accident if it is decided to be his fault. i would start disciplinary proceedings immediately as he could use his 'injury' to really drag any outcome out for you. i;d also make him sort out his own sick pay.
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See a solicitor and get some advice.
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My day's been rubbish - CSA in hot pursuit and the 4wd no longer working on my truck for some inadequately explored reason.
Sounds like your day was worse and I'm sorry to hear about your aggro and hope you can navigate through the minefield with your sanity intact.
Seems like you're doing it the right way too - all the best,
Martin
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His fault ,
buy another van and take it out of his wages at £50 per week..... regardless of any insurance claims.
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See a solicitor and get some advice.
This is the only answer you need( and then fire his ar*e for negligence)
I have a lad whose driving style scares the bejesus out of the rest of us-he has been told on lots of occasions about care of company vehicles,but needless to say-I'm dreading the phone call
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See a solicitor and get some advice.
This is the only answer you need( and then fire his ar*e for negligence)
I have a lad whose driving style scares the bejesus out of the rest of us-he has been told on lots of occasions about care of company vehicles,but needless to say-I'm dreading the phone call
you got it in one Roy- it was only a matter of time till he crashed and i knew it deep down but you know what its like when you are busy
i guess im just going to have to muddle thru with 1 van for now- im going to sit down this weekend and rearrange the rounds so that a lot of it can be done on foot, maybe even with a handcart for the ladders . i think this will be possible and might even be popular on the street. Just before i added my second van we had a few days or so of trying part the round on foot and it did work but wasnt liked as the distances got silly,but i hadnt organized it right that time
when i rang my insurance up last night the guy reckons they will likely go for a knock-for-knock deal as the actual collision was on a Keep Clear area so they will argue for me on that- who knows maybe i will get something for my old van instead of being totally out of pocket
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See a solicitor and get some advice.
This is the only answer you need( and then fire his ar*e for negligence)
I have a lad whose driving style scares the bejesus out of the rest of us-he has been told on lots of occasions about care of company vehicles,but needless to say-I'm dreading the phone call
arent you worried that by driving like that he'll be giving you a bad reputation also? if you're vans sign written i'd be very concerned. better to sack him now than wait for an accident
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so heres a question for you boys....If a staff member writes off your van and it was their fault, can you sack them for negligence?
probably have to go through the process - verbal warning, written warning, then dismissal. Could be expensive van wise.
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you got it in one Roy- it was only a matter of time till he crashed and i knew it deep down but you know what its like when you are busy
i guess im just going to have to muddle thru with 1 van for now- im going to sit down this weekend and rearrange the rounds so that a lot of it can be done on foot, maybe even with a handcart for the ladders . i think this will be possible and might even be popular on the street. Just before i added my second van we had a few days or so of trying part the round on foot and it did work but wasnt liked as the distances got silly,but i hadnt organized it right that time
when i rang my insurance up last night the guy reckons they will likely go for a knock-for-knock deal as the actual collision was on a Keep Clear area so they will argue for me on that- who knows maybe i will get something for my old van instead of being totally out of pocket
You can get courtesy van and system sometimes, the insurance pays for the hire. I know this because someone I know had their van written off because some muppet crashed into it when parked.
The other party's insurance paid for the hire of a van and system for 5 weeks until his van was replaced. They had some problem finding a company to hire from, as far as I know there is only one, Alexander Swan. They have 3 or 4 'courtesy' vans for their own policy holders but also hire them out to other insurance companies in the case of an accident.
Might be worth looking into rather than doing the work on foot!
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His fault ,
buy another van and take it out of his wages at £50 per week..... regardless of any insurance claims.
On that basis the electrician who wired the signals at Clapham Junction should have his wages docked to pay for three new trains and carriages.
Why do people jump on the 'sack him' band wagon. Apparently the guy is a great window cleaner, in that regard it might not be such a good idea to bin him; good workers are hard to come by. Bobby admitted he felt the guy was a tad hasty behind the wheel, you better look at why you let him carry on driving then Bobby.
If he's signed off sick it might be because he's hurt. If I was hurt I get signed off sick too. Just because he gets signed off doesn't mean he's trying to pull a fast one. He might, but he might also not be. Glass half empty.
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I don't employ now but I have done in the past.
Me, I'd sack the bloke straight away. Misuse of company property and or driving in a way that resulted in a written off van to me is gross misconduct.
By his recklessness, he has an accident, which you witnessed, and he expects sick pay? To my mind, he injured himself by his own actions.
I wouldn't even be nice about it or apologetic. He caused this, it going to cost you money and a lot of grief replacing the van quickly and unless he's going to immediately compensate you, sack him.
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iv had all manner of claims firms ringing me today plus my window lad wanting the womans details who he pranged
i just went round to see him and he is adamant hes claiming for whiplash . thing is we chatted 15 minutes and his head was moving normally and no mention of any pain
i told him you put in a claim and iv no longer any work for you . you could come back tomoro or a weeks time but oh no hes hes in for the compo ,smells money
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What difference does it make to you if he puts a claim in, the vans a write-off, your premium is going up regardless.
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he will be the one to come out of this smiling, he shouldnt get any compo if its found to be his fault, though he may still pocket a couple of grand, hes taking the p..s
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its examples like this that cause all our insurance to increase year on year
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See a solicitor and get some advice.
This is the only answer you need( and then fire his ar*e for negligence)
I have a lad whose driving style scares the bejesus out of the rest of us-he has been told on lots of occasions about care of company vehicles,but needless to say-I'm dreading the phone call
arent you worried that by driving like that he'll be giving you a bad reputation also? if you're vans sign written i'd be very concerned. better to sack him now than wait for an accident
To a degree Richard I agree with you
and heres the BUT
He's a good grafter,he's built the business in a good way-with time and a baby on the way,I'm expecting him to mellow and be less Jeremy Clarkson and more James May(captain slow)
I'm willing to trust my staff do do the right thing-If I didnt and micro managed,then the boys would soon get fed up and jack it in.
Also I'm ex-army- and as a leader(of my own business) I have to put the trust that the hard stuff,will get done by highly motivated and enthusiastic troops on the ground
Theres no easy answer as the boss man-but I wish Bobby all the best as its gonna be a long haul
regards
Roy
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whiplash can take days to come out after a accident ;)
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If you where to push for,it was all your employees fault and lose on the van insurance.Your employee will not have a claim for whiplash.
where you third party or fully comp?
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Tell him to buy a van with compo money. Then offer sub his existing work back to him on the condition he resigns. I would never employ again.
BVC.
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If you where to push for,it was all your employees fault and lose on the van insurance.Your employee will not have a claim for whiplash.
where you third party or fully comp?
3rd party . im expecting to hear in a few days the extent of the Audi tt damage claim , itll be at least a thou or 2 . however it did drive away so not busted too badly - who knows she might be another one with a WHIPLASH claim
iv been ignoring the 2 claim companys who have been ringing me on his behalf.
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Quote iv been ignoring the 2 claim companys who have been ringing me on his behalf.
Best way,dont say anything that they can use.
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May want to take a read of this ... copied important bit for you ;)
‘The judge threw the case out, and the driver has to pay mine and his legal fees, which have come to £5,000,’ said Mr Robinson.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2093291/The-great-whiplash-backlash-starts-How-man-fought-bogus-car-insurance-scandal.html#ixzz20MGRUi9M
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If anyone phones about the accident, never say who you are, never say anything. Just put the phone down. Even if you get a call claiming to be from your insurance company, ring them back then you know you are actually talking to them.
The only time you give your name is when you phone up your insurance company.
Sack the bloke. If you don't, anyone involved with any claim on your employees behalf will try to treat that as you didn't sack him because you knew you were liable in some respect.
Better still, get independent legal advice and keep a diary of what actions you took from the outset. Put the time, the date and sign it.
Trust me on this. Been there myself but not in quite the same way.
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thanks for the advice lads ,im taking it all in.
there was another of my workers alongside him in the van when it crashed and he has carried on working for me normally,no whiplash and he says he should "man up "
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Your worker has probably got pound signs in his eyes thinking about the claim he is putting in.
The reality of the situation is that even if his claim is succesful he will probably have to wait a year or maybe more before he receives a payout and it won't necessarily be for a great deal of money.
I think the average whiplash injury claim pays out around £1000-£1500.
He will probably be claiming some sort of sickness benefit which is probably about £70 or £80 a week.
But at the end of the day I think he will find that financially he would of been better off going back to work with you instead of going on the sick. :-\
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My mate had a whiplash pay out,took three yrs.but he has to look up a lot fitting blinds which was making it worst.got doc reports.the final pay out was for lose of earnings this is where the money gets big.75 grand final deal out of court.
I
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Just a note about your concerns about insurance for the future - obviously you have outstanding issues but I just wanted to clear up something about future premiums.
Insurance companies are not concerned with how much a final claim costs to them, they are however concerned with how many claims are made per year. Don't worry about your renewel - it will go up whether you were at fault or not and the loss of a couple of years of no claims is nothing these days - 10% at most.
I made an at fault claim last year when I backed into an X5 at the supermarket - probably a 5mph prang - but it caused £3,500 damage to her car and luckily mine was not damaged bad. Although it was in my mind dual responsibility (she had pulled out of a give way without being able to join the carriageway when I backed into her) it was pointless contesting the issue as all they do is say 50/50 - this conveniantly means I claim off her and she claims off me - whats the point? I just accepted responsibility, allowed her to have her vehicle fixed and I took the loss of no claims.
The result?
TPFT £333 increased to £392 on renewel.
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Just a note about your concerns about insurance for the future - obviously you have outstanding issues but I just wanted to clear up something about future premiums.
Insurance companies are not concerned with how much a final claim costs to them, they are however concerned with how many claims are made per year. Don't worry about your renewel - it will go up whether you were at fault or not and the loss of a couple of years of no claims is nothing these days - 10% at most.
I made an at fault claim last year when I backed into an X5 at the supermarket - probably a 5mph prang - but it caused £3,500 damage to her car and luckily mine was not damaged bad. Although it was in my mind dual responsibility (she had pulled out of a give way without being able to join the carriageway when I backed into her) it was pointless contesting the issue as all they do is say 50/50 - this conveniantly means I claim off her and she claims off me - whats the point? I just accepted responsibility, allowed her to have her vehicle fixed and I took the loss of no claims.
The result?
TPFT £333 increased to £392 on renewel.
That's nearly a 20% increase? ???
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That's nearly a 20% increase? ???
I was talking about the no claims bonus.
First year can be anything up to 50% discount. Subsequent years are a discount at around 5% or sometimes less.
Considering I have had an at fault claim and therefore lost two years no claims I think thats pretty good.
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I have a, No claims protecter on my insurance.
2 claims before i lose any discount ;)
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I have a, No claims protecter on my insurance.
2 claims before i lose any discount ;)
Depends how much it costs per year.
Concurrently paying a no claims protector year on year could be costly.
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umm ...I wrote my van off 2 weeks ago :'(
So im glad i had the protetor,but what a head ache it was.
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umm ...I wrote my van off 2 weeks ago :'(
So im glad i had the protetor,but what a head ache it was.
Hope everything works out okay.
I had a very smooth claims process - the headache is the liability and thats where they drag their feet.
Once they feel comfortable with that it can be a little easier.
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I have had loads of guys work for me over the years and have learned a lot along the way.
I used to feel that I had to do everything possible to hang onto them as if they left I would be screwed. However the opposite is nearly always the case.
NO ONE is irreplaceable.
If I were in your situation I would seek legal advise and do everything possible to ensure the company took the smallest hit possible and if that means letting the guy go then so be it.
You know he is pulling a fast one, he knows that in doing so it is affecting your business in a big way at a time when you need your lads to pull together.
Is he the type of guy who will be there for you in the future?
His type only see £££££££
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I have had loads of guys work for me over the years and have learned a lot along the way.
I used to feel that I had to do everything possible to hang onto them as if they left I would be screwed. However the opposite is nearly always the case.
NO ONE is irreplaceable.
really good to hear the views of people with a lot of experience of staff.
interestingly my friend who runs a business with 60 staff says exactly the same thing. he says 'never believe anyone is irreplaceable. there is always someone else available, and often someone better!
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you are absolutely right. today i left my phone at home as i had so much work to do it being Friday etc and on returning home checking my phone he has sent me texts starting quite humble at 9 a.m. but (because i didnt reply instantly) they then got annoying, then abusive (legal proceedings imminent) and by midday really nasty f/u messages !
id got it in mind to ease him back into partime employment once i was sure he was medically 100% to return , not sure now tho ! ;D
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Complete lack of respect there Bobby. I would sack him right now and you would have just cause.
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Bobby get well rid mate, When i went on holiday for a week i left my worker to work alone in a van. When i got back i had 11 complaint regarding him driving like a nut job, leaving gates open when finished, swearing on the phone in there gardens. I came back and sacked him on the spot, he said he was going to sue me. If i am honest we had a row a couple of days latter but that was it never heard a thing
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you are absolutely right. today i left my phone at home as i had so much work to do it being Friday etc and on returning home checking my phone he has sent me texts starting quite humble at 9 a.m. but (because i didnt reply instantly) they then got annoying, then abusive (legal proceedings imminent) and by midday really nasty f/u messages !
id got it in mind to ease him back into partime employment once i was sure he was medically 100% to return , not sure now tho ! ;D
You know what to do!!Gloves are off now-record all the messages as evidence(your phone provider will be able to do this for you) and dismiss instantly
Do Not di*k around with this guy anymore-you have to take personal feelings out of the equation and make the right choice for the longevity of your business and your hard earned reputation
Good luck.Put it to bed for the weekend and dont dwell on it or you will be getting more stressed on your time off.
Face it all again with a cool head on monday morning when you have had a chance to ruminate over everything thats happened and if its gonna get nasty-time for some legal advice
regards
Roy
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you are absolutely right. today i left my phone at home as i had so much work to do it being Friday etc and on returning home checking my phone he has sent me texts starting quite humble at 9 a.m. but (because i didnt reply instantly) they then got annoying, then abusive (legal proceedings imminent) and by midday really nasty f/u messages !
id got it in mind to ease him back into partime employment once i was sure he was medically 100% to return , not sure now tho ! ;D
well i think what you have here is grounds for gross misconduct. threatening and abusive language isn't acceptable in work, and definitely not to your employer.
add it to the dangerous driving, or driving without due care and attention and you have plenty. do it by the book though as he sounds like a nasty piece of work. it is a real pain that he is off work sick as you will need to invite him to a disciplinary, and give him notice.
just because he cant work as a WC doesn't mean he couldn't do desk work. you could get him back in early telling him this. obviously, ideally he'll sack himself.
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I would definitely get proper legal advice from a solicitor with experience in employment law. If you don't it will cost you money.
I had a foreign national working for me and I sacked him for several reasons including dangerous driving, setting up a round behind my back and a few other things. Found myself in a hearing with a rights commissioner and had to settle or else face an employment tribunal.
One of the things I got caught out on was I had not given him terms and conditions in writing. He pleaded ignorance of some of the things he had signed for me saying he misunderstood them. My solicitor thought he hadn't any chance of winning but he (the solicitor wasn't an employment law specialist)
Bottom line is don't act without doing your homework. You could probably let him return to work, say nothing and video him working while suffering from whiplash. Then you could go through the proper procedures - verbal warning, written warning and finally dismissal for * improper conduct etc*
Best Wishes and I hope he gets what is coming to him.
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I would definitely get proper legal advice from a solicitor with experience in employment law. If you don't it will cost you money.
I had a foreign national working for me and I sacked him for several reasons including dangerous driving, setting up a round behind my back and a few other things. Found myself in a hearing with a rights commissioner and had to settle or else face an employment tribunal.
One of the things I got caught out on was I had not given him terms and conditions in writing. He pleaded ignorance of some of the things he had signed for me saying he misunderstood them. My solicitor thought he hadn't any chance of winning but he (the solicitor wasn't an employment law specialist)
Bottom line is don't act without doing your homework. You could probably let him return to work, say nothing and video him working while suffering from whiplash. Then you could go through the proper procedures - verbal warning, written warning and finally dismissal for * improper conduct etc*
Best Wishes and I hope he gets what is coming to him.
you are quite right that you should get advice about it.
but for gross misconduct you do not need to go through the verbal, written, final warning malarky. you can go straight to dismissal. just get advice on how.
has he been working for you for a year yet? if he hasnt he cannot take you for wrongful dismissal. can only get you on grounds of discrimination (racial, sexual, sex, pregnant....)
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hes been with me about 6 months.he was on a trial for the first 3 months and paid cash at that time(sounds stupid of me now ) but for about the last 3 hes been on the books properly as a worker as i insisted .
him being hot headed and a control freak type i think he will cook his own goose as long as i do very little and say nothing in the next couple of days. he is only employed parttime 3 days a week max (altho he had been working 5 in recent weeks) and if it comes to it id think if i cut his hours right down hed likely leave of his own accord . however i do want rid in case he causes trouble at work or maybe fakes a fall or whatever . im thinking that if i say im concerned about the whiplash injury (of which im absolutely sure he has none) and i will need a doctors report to say he is fine because of the risk of anybody injured doing ladder work thats a reason i could cut his hours for now and also without a van theres a need to reduce hours worked further
im going to look locally for a solicitor who deals with employment law , so far iv only had hot air from my worker but once ive more i will ring them up
he also works evenings as a delivery driver for a takeaway at the end of my road ,works for cash, im keeping an eye out to see if he is working there with this whiplash -my bet is that he is of course
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hes been with me about 6 months.he was on a trial for the first 3 months and paid cash at that time(sounds stupid of me now ) but for about the last 3 hes been on the books properly as a worker as i insisted .
him being hot headed and a control freak type i think he will cook his own goose as long as i do very little and say nothing in the next couple of days. he is only employed parttime 3 days a week max (altho he had been working 5 in recent weeks) and if it comes to it id think if i cut his hours right down hed likely leave of his own accord . however i do want rid in case he causes trouble at work or maybe fakes a fall or whatever . im thinking that if i say im concerned about the whiplash injury (of which im absolutely sure he has none) and i will need a doctors report to say he is fine because of the risk of anybody injured doing ladder work thats a reason i could cut his hours for now and also without a van theres a need to reduce hours worked further
im going to look locally for a solicitor who deals with employment law , so far iv only had hot air from my worker but once ive more i will ring them up
he also works evenings as a delivery driver for a takeaway at the end of my road ,works for cash, im keeping an eye out to see if he is working there with this whiplash -my bet is that he is of course
if he's only been with you for 6 months then he cannot make a claim for wrongful dismissal. he needs to have been working a minimun of a year to claim that. you can call him to a meeting and then decide after the meeting to sack him on the spot. he has no comeback.
now i dont know how this works with an injury, but so far as i understand it (my wife was in HR employment) he can only claim against you for discrimination which means usually racism, sexism, etc. i doubt that injuries are covered by this.
obviously get advice off an expert, BUT even if you just sacked him without any reason and didnt follow the 'proper' process, having only worked for you for around 3 months, and only part time... even if he did try and get a settlement against you, it would be pathetically small. really not worth worrying about.
just be clear, if you are going to do it the 'proper' way, the reasons why you are sacking him for gross misconduct... these would be i guess not taking care whilst driving company vehicle, causing a potentially serious accident as a result iof this driving, bringing your company into disrepute as a result of these actions, and then insubordination (his abusive language).
i dont think you have a lot to worry about tho now i can see more details :)
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could he be seeing this as an opportunity for some compo to set up on his own ?
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I think you should think again about reducing his hours too much because the way I see it is it will look a bit suspect you do this just after the accident, and then maybe he could sue for constructive dismissal if he left??? unless of course all your employees hours are reduced. I would seek legal advice!!!!!! also has your injured ;D employee got booked in for any physio appointments?????
Best of luck on this it`s hassle I am sure you can do without and I would personally look to sacking him cos how can you trust him after all this and if he did come back I would not be able to be civil with him so it will creat bad feelings.
Paul
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Constructed dismissal could be a bigger pay out don't cut the hrs.
In fact offer him his full hrs on foot,whilst you seek the right advise.
He want work because of the whiplash but it shows you have tried to
Take the right steps.
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Hi Bobby - from previous life I have experiance of employment laws etc etc - give us a call if u want some pointers this afternoon 0754 006 5555
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I know this is interesting and is relevant to our occupation but if I was you Bobby I wouldn't discuss this on the forum any further until the situation is resolved.
You never know who might be reading this.
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Good advice Andy
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Hi Bobby - from previous life I have experiance of employment laws etc etc - give us a call if u want some pointers this afternoon 0754 006 5555
I would still advise him to see a brief that covers employment issues
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Hi Bobby - from previous life I have experiance of employment laws etc etc - give us a call if u want some pointers this afternoon 0754 006 5555
I would still advise him to see a brief that covers employment issues
yup defo ... of course will be telling Bobby that but can put his mind at ease with a few things straight away .. but not on the forum as u never know who is reading 8)
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Hi Bobby - from previous life I have experiance of employment laws etc etc - give us a call if u want some pointers this afternoon 0754 006 5555
I would still advise him to see a brief that covers employment issues
yup defo ... of course will be telling Bobby that but can put his mind at ease with a few things straight away .. but not on the forum as u never know who is reading 8)
I think thats kind of you Ian to help another windy out ;) I totally agree with not putting it on this forum. Employment laws can be a bit of a minefield and have to be treated with care as the employee has so many rights. Also I am sure Bobby does not want to give this guy a chance of another compo claim, as he seems to be TROUBLE.
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Bobby I should think that the abusive text messages he sent you are grounds alone for gross misconduct if not criminal charges brought by the Police ::) I cant imagine many company directors or business owners allowing abusive text messages being sent to them without issuing a P45
Hope you get things resolved and all the kit inside your van was intact after the smash.
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update- hes now set up on his own , got a van same colour as the one he wrecked , will he canvass my customers pretending hes still workin for me- its a nightmare if he does
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GET ROUND TO EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR CUSTOMERS! and tell them HE IS NO LONGER WORKING FOR YOU AND WHAT HAS HAPPENED.
I.E. HE CRASHED YOUR VAN IS MEANT TO BE ON THE SICK, STABBING YOU IN THE BACK AND NOT A VERY NICE CHARACTER
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I take it that you didn't get him to sign a "no competition" type clause then?
If he is now set up on his own, and is meant to be throwing a sickie, then get evidence of his working and offer to enlighten the insurance company that he is claiming wiplash from if he does not desist in canvassing your customers.
Then get on the phone to all your customers and tell them to beware of what is going on.
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I would sack him outright and say sue me. Then I would get round all your customers double quick and put a stop to his game.
This is the nightmare of employing people
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could he be seeing this as an opportunity for some compo to set up on his own ?
what did I say ?
break his legs (just make sure there are no witnesses)
seriously though, sounds like a nightmare, what a scumbag
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I take it that you didn't get him to sign a "no competition" type clause then?
If he is now set up on his own, and is meant to be throwing a sickie, then get evidence of his working and offer to enlighten the insurance company that he is claiming wiplash from if he does not desist in canvassing your customers.
Then get on the phone to all your customers and tell them to beware of what is going on.
I reckon that's what I would do.
He's out of order if he does go after your customers Bobby ,so I would do what I could to make it hard for him.
Especially if he is putting a claim in for whiplash it will show that his injury was only very minor if he was even injured at all.
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Ignore him and keep distance just tell your customers whats going on cos this little fecker will twist it
had a crash ... not my fault .. boss sacked me ... had to set up on my own to bring money in cos bad old boss sacked me .. etc etc
guy sounds a waster so he soon get fed up of running his own business.
before you ignore him just tell him that your going to save him the hassle of registering with inland revenue etc etc as you will be doing it for him ... dss as well.
;)
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you could also phone all your custards and say that although he worked for you until recently, you found out he was an illegal immigrant, and had to let him go. I don't think many will want his services after that.. ;D ;D
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the injury claim firms kept bugging me for info about the crash, i ignored them but in the end told one persistent guy that i had only 1 word to say about the claim... "Rubbish"... as i see him walking about ,driving same as ever and the guy said that my ex worker had been telling them none of it was his fault and that due to whiplash he might be "paralysed from the eyes down "- etc
the guy and i had a good laugh about the stupidity of the bloke and he knew i was telling the truth and wouldnt bother me again ,(even offered to help me speed up the van insurance claim process ) ,
i reckon the chance of a payout is slim !
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you could also phone all your custards and say that although he worked for you until recently, you found out he was an illegal immigrant, and had to let him go. I don't think many will want his services after that.. ;D ;D
thats a good one, i will be using that i feel . cheers!
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How could he speak if he's paralysed from the eyes down?
Or does he mean he's paralysed from playing too much bingo? It does happen. It happened to two of my customers. Two fat ladies were confined to wheelchairs because they played too much bingo. It was doctor's orders.