Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: creighton foyle on June 15, 2012, 01:27:03 pm
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it would seem that if you want to join the ncca and NOT have the "obligatory" insurance it is ok. if i understand the situation correctly the association will not put you forward to the public as a member via their website or with referals but you will still be able to use their logo's on your literature and vans etc as you have paid your fees which is all they are interested in. so a cowboy cleaner could join the ncca, not pay insurance but keep the ncca logo's thus fooling joe public who has maybe read the ncca charter and thinks he or she has a bonafide cleaner working on their property.
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Ive had to attend a job this week to rectify the previous cleaners work who is an NCCA member in Halifax.
He had caused browning on a wool carpet.
When i did a ph test it was showing 11.
Best thing is we both quoted for the job in the first place, he quoted £20 more than me, but the customer used them because they carried the NCCA logo.
Carpet salvaged and customer happy.
Just goes to show doesnt it??
;)
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Creighton you clearly have an axe to grind against the NCCA, no organizations perfect and for you to trade without insurance because of a grudge seems to me irresponsible and unfair to your customers.
Understand your upset but get on the blower and talk to a Directer
and try to sort it.
Mark
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Perhaps what Creighton meant was that he does have insurance but refuses to disclose it to the NCCA, therefore invalidating his membership.
It's still comical that they are demanding membership off him whilst to all intents and purposes he doesn't meet the criteria by 'not' having insurance.
Mind you I think SafeContractor run the same scam of having to give many months notice or else you have to pay up for the following year.
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i thought i had made it clear that i do have and have had both public liability insurance and insurance for items being worked on since i startyed as a carpet cleaner.
i do have an axe to grind with the ncca and i have put it out on a public forum to educate others who might be considering membership that the ncca is an organisation that seems to spend all the money it makes recruiting members instead of using it to good effect promoting existing members .
i genuinely did send them a letter informing them of my intention to quit but because they claim to have not recieved it they are insisting i pay them another full years membership.
there is nothing in their articles that advises members to send letters of resignation by registered post but there is a provision not to force people to pay at their discretion yet they choose not to use this discretion and instead use threats to gain an extra £200 from a member that clearly does'nt want anything more to do with them.
when an article appeared in the newsletter last year stating that the sixty day rule would be enforced and that the ncca would not allow people to pay monthly i come out on this public forum and stated i thought it was wrong,as a result i recieved a private e-mail from paul pierce thanking me for my feedback and as a result of these emails the following months newsletter said that if anyone was having problems paying they could contact the ncca and a continuous card payment has since been put in place " i think". i also had an e-mail from paul stating that whilst the ncca thought it a common courtesy that members should give the required notice before invoices were run off no one would be penalised for leaving. If anyone thinks i am lying send me an email at petercreightonfoyle@hotmail.com and i will gladly forward these emails to you.
you all know how to search this forum look through the archive and you will find my original post i do not tell lies.
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i also have an email from paul pierce stating they suspect certain members of getting insurance to show when they renew membership and though they cannot prove it they suspect these people of cancelling policies after, as a result he claims that some individuals details are left off the website and this to me says the ncca does allow members to use their logos whilst suspecting but not knowing for certain if they meet the criteria for membership.
maybe i should just copy and paste the e-mail;s so you can all make your own mind up.
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Creighton wasn't doubting your word and the 60 day rule a little harsh as many busy CC don't really consider renewal until they receive invoice.
Is splashing this all over the forum a last recourse because all other channels have failed?
Sorry didn't read the insurance post properly.
mark
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mark when i raised the issues on this forum last year it was because i genuinely thought that it was an unreasonable rule for an association that is supposed to be run by members for members and when i raised these issues in public my fears wers put to rest via a private email which it would seem means nothing. with hindsight i should have sent my letter of resignation by recorded delivery but i never imagined a) it would not arrive and b)that this would be such a problem.
I have had a letter off glyn charnock telling me the ncca has lost "thousands of pounds sending out invoices to members that decide to quit. now with around 700 members if every single one of them decided not to renew i doubt the cost of invoicing would come to 1k.
i suspect that once you get on the board of directors it is probably quite lucrative for some re the work it brings in and possibly the expenses etc so it is no surprise that they want to wring every penny out of the members , especially those that want to leave because they know they will not get them back.
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No way is that libellous, it's his opinion.
To be libellous it would have to be presented as fact.
Note his words, "I suspect" and "probably"
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i thought i chose my words carefully and in no way did i imply any one on the board was doing anything dishonest if they do use their position to gain work of any kind.
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I agree they can seem harsh, but I'm guessing it's not easy getting money out of poor carpet cleaners. I bet they spend a lot of time chasing payment. TACCA has all this to come yet.
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Hi guys
Creighton I would advise you just move on and don't water any moretime.
I had my discusiions with NNC several years ago but just moved on and didnt waste any more energy, they are hardly a necessity.
Cheers
Doug
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I agree with Doug these things should be brought up but also left to rest, I'm not a believer in associations anymore I have had simular problems myself, IMO the NCCA is a training operation not an association looking mainly for new to the industry cleaners and training them to do the job properly which in turn makes a better profession for us all.
Shaun
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How does it train properly when a wand isn't even touched during the training?
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I see your point but you don't have to go to France to learn the language.
Shaun
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vous biseauté être sérieux!
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i'm still waiting for rosetta stone to release geordie so i can take one of john kellys training courses. ;D
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doug i agree with what you and shaun are saying and i will move on, when i am ready, but until then i feel i have to make it my mission to inform the uninformed about the true nature of those behind the organisation .
i am not the first and i will not be the last with and axe to grind and yes they will still be here when i am gone but we all should speak out for what we believe.
trouble is some of these guys forget where they come from. big fish in little ponds
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doug i agree with what you and shaun are saying and i will move on, when i am ready, but until then i feel i have to make it my mission to inform the uninformed about the true nature of those behind the organisation .
i am not the first and i will not be the last with and axe to grind and yes they will still be here when i am gone but we all should speak out for what we believe.
trouble is some of these guys forget where they come from. big fish in little ponds
As it is your mission to inform the uninformed about the true nature of those behind the NCCA. Can you spell out simply what you are informing us of. Because I haven't got a clue. So far you sent them a letter saying you don't want to be a member, they never received it and have therefore asked for payment.
Some might think YOU have an ulterior motive.
Just saying ;)
As a member of neither the NCCA or TACCA I'm more than happy to play Devils Advocate if you want :-*
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The way i see you were quite happy to be a member of the NCCA you thought it might give you an advantage over other cleaners.
We are now well aware that you have had difficulty in canceling. This often happens with mobile phone companies and other ongoing contracts.
I usually find a phone call will result in an amicle arrangement unless one party really wants to be bloody minded and gives no ground.
I presume you are now a member of the TACCA
Personally although not a member of either I have a lot of respect for The NCCA i believe the directors give up a lot of their time I do not believe they are first in line to receive any leads.
Although I was not happy with them insisting you attend their training courses when they let big players do in house courses and other courses are run by their member companies, we have to accept thats the rules , and as I had done the alternative courses allowed I could have joined.
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but until then i feel i have to make it my mission to inform the uninformed about the true nature of those behind the organisation .
Sorry Creighton, i disagree, Have you been to any of the meetings to find out a little bit more of how exactly its run? Apparently all members are welcome, and i agree with garyJ, it now looks like you have ulterior motives! I am a member of both the NCCA and TACCA, and will continue to be, if i have any issues with either, i will contact them first and try dealing with it through the right channels first before putting on a public forum.
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garyj there is no ulterior motive, just a very peed off member that thinks they are taking the p##s.
when i said it was lucrative for some members to be on the board of directors i was not thinking that they get first pick of the leads,in fact i like to believe that any leads generated are refered fairly.
informing the unimformed ? well there are going to be two sides to this story and the side i am on is that i have been a member for two years and got absolutely nothing for my membership, i did not join to get leads or referals i joined because i thought in my ignorance of the trade that the ncca was a prestigious organisation known throughout the country and to have their logo and backing would be good for my business however that is not the case most people i ask have never heard of them so it would seem my money has been wasted.
the ncca training course was much more expensive than others yet it is exactly the same in content as the one i did at cleansmart yet they will not allow anyone who completes the cleansmart training to become a member why is this ? because they exist to make money for themselves, they seem to use the money they make to recruit new members and run training course (do they teach these for free ? ) when they should be educating the public because most of them have never heard of the ncca. it would be interesting to know the figures ie how many more members does the ncca have now than ten years ago and how many have left and joined in each year.
on the other extreme the ncca do an excellent 1 day leather course but will not do a three day one like ltt does because they say they do not want to upset an associate member yet they will not organise one using ltt. cleansmart are associate members too.
perhaps if all directors were excluded from training members for a fee (i am assuming they get paid) and other trainers were used maybe that would alter their focus a little. now there are some who will say that the trainers they have are at the top of the tree and i would not disagree with that but there are other equally qualified people who available who are not members of the ncca and therefore have no vested interest in the ncca revenue stream.
what the issue is for me is that the ncca is supposed to be for us not against us and surely even if peoples opinions are the opposite of mine this issue with the sixty day rule is a rule that is of no benefit to the members and in fact is detremental to anyone who wants to leave and has not made that decision 60 days before renewal is due.
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billy i can't see what my ulterior motive could be, so if you or garyj could spell it out i would be grateful. I just want the ncca to accept that i did send them a letter and that it is possible it was lost in the post.
i contacted glyn charnock on the email given and i got a letter back attached to i think it was nikkis email which makes me think she wrote for him otherwise why would'nt he send it direct to me attached to his mail ?.
i am happy for people to have a different opinion to me, thats what makes the world go round but why is everybody assuming i have not comunicated with the ncca. i do not see this as a private issue i am not telling lies so if i am happy to discuss this on the forum its my choice.
also my "statement informing the unimformed" was made whilst i was drinking which i am sure we all have done in the past . ::)
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Well you've started 2 threads in the space of a couple of days that are essentially the same thing. Both slagging off the same organisation. I think as you are an old hand around here you have been given an easy time, I think a few of the replies are trying to say "get over it and stop ya whinging" but luckily for me you haven't :).
Well as you want me to spell it out I will.
Is your ulterior motive the fact you have joined another organisation?
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I didn't see you had 2 posts. One says that you don't have an ulterior motive, the other asks for the ulterior motive to be spelled out.
I thought I would rise to the bait of the second post and spell out what you know I am thinking.
Just for the fun of it of course well I watch the Corrie catch up before I get on with some work.
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and i thought i was being angry and having a rant.
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and i thought i was being angry and having a rant.
Naaa you went passed that 2 days ago and are firmly in whinging git territory.