Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Lee Burbidge on May 16, 2012, 11:04:07 pm
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Outstanding tech coming out of the Ionics camp. Soon to be officially announced in June this year the new zeRO PPB System.
Looks awesome and purifies your water at 0 parts per billion!! This system promises to offer spot free results even on first cleans, uses less water and lower running costs.
www.windowcleaningmagazine.co.uk
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Outstanding tech coming out of the Ionics camp. Soon to be officially announced in June this year the new zeRO PPB System.
Looks awesome and purifies your water at 0 parts per billion!! This system promises to offer spot free results even on first cleans, uses less water and lower running costs.
www.windowcleaningmagazine.co.uk
That should be interesting.
Throw away your brushes, lads :D.
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Outstanding tech coming out of the Ionics camp. Soon to be officially announced in June this year the new zeRO PPB System.
Looks awesome and purifies your water at 0 parts per billion!! This system promises to offer spot free results even on first cleans, uses less water and lower running costs.
www.windowcleaningmagazine.co.uk
Do they not realise that first clean issues are nothing to do with source water purity? ???
Sounds like they're getting desperate to me! How thick do they think we are? ;D
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Outstanding tech coming out of the Ionics camp. Soon to be officially announced in June this year the new zeRO PPB System.
Looks awesome and purifies your water at 0 parts per billion!! This system promises to offer spot free results even on first cleans, uses less water and lower running costs.
www.windowcleaningmagazine.co.uk
Do they not realise that first clean issues are nothing to do with source water purity? ???
Sounds like they're getting desperate to me! How thick do they think we are? ;D
totally agree, it is to do with the way it is cleaned, the more experience the better the finish. great sales ploy to newbies
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I use purer than 0 parts per billion. I use the tears of angels and it's that good, I only have to drive past the house and the windows come up spotless.
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R i p
O F F
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;D
My thoughts on this are here:
http://www.windowcleaningmagazine.co.uk/blog/ionics-to-officially-release-a-new-system-the-zero-ppb-that-produces-pure-water-at-0-parts-per-billion/
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Read all about it.
Coming soon on an RO advert near you.
TDS - 0 parts per trillion.
Don't miss the next exciting episode.
Also in the Sunday Sport: My ex hubby shagged a frog for £1.26 and got no change.
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If were getting great results at PPM, then surely, there is no need to go the extra, a stated sounds like another Ionics stunt, never have & never will purchase from them.
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how can you measure parts per billion anyway. is there even a macine to do this? seems a bit unfeasible to me without some serious expensive lab tech.
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further thoughts :D
being a big fan of radio fours "more or less" i decided to investgate the numbers behind these claims
how are we quantifying a billion? financial markets would say it is one thousand million but we aren't talking money so it must be a scientific billion or a million million or 1 000 000 000 000
now we have two ratios: zero parts per billion against zero parts per million. to compare we would have to multiply both numbers in each ratio by the same magnitude so that would be one million then.
oh err zero multiplied by one million is zero :o
so my water IS zero parts per billion brilliant
for that reason i'm oot
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how can you measure parts per billion anyway. is there even a macine to do this? seems a bit unfeasible to me without some serious expensive lab tech.
Yes it can be measured. Some industrial uses are ppb. I believe that drug manufacturers use it for starters and I imagine there are other uses for it. It does sound like overkill for window cleaning though.
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further thoughts :D
being a big fan of radio fours "more or less" i decided to investgate the numbers behind these claims
how are we quantifying a billion? financial markets would say it is one thousand million but we aren't talking money so it must be a scientific billion or a million million or 1 000 000 000 000
now we have two ratios: zero parts per billion against zero parts per million. to compare we would have to multiply both numbers in each ratio by the same magnitude so that would be one million then.
oh err zero multiplied by one million is zero :o
so my water IS zero parts per billion brilliant
for that reason i'm oot
Not so sure about that one ;D .
Although it used to be different in the UK, these days a billion is defined as a thousand million.
I suppose that a ppm reading could show as zero even if the ppb reading is under 500. This is because any number under 500 ppb would be nearer to zero ppm that it would be to 1 ppm. So the only issue as far as I can see is with whether water is just under 1 ppm. Well I'm sure I sometimes use it at 1 ppm anyway by the time some dust has got into the tank and a tiny bit of contamination is pulled from pipe work in the van.
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Sounds interesting, I'd be interested to know the facts on how corrosive the water is and the effect that it will have on any metal that the water comes into contact with such as spindles in hose reels and so on.
Simon.
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further thoughts :D
being a big fan of radio fours "more or less" i decided to investgate the numbers behind these claims
how are we quantifying a billion? financial markets would say it is one thousand million but we aren't talking money so it must be a scientific billion or a million million or 1 000 000 000 000
now we have two ratios: zero parts per billion against zero parts per million. to compare we would have to multiply both numbers in each ratio by the same magnitude so that would be one million then.
oh err zero multiplied by one million is zero :o
so my water IS zero parts per billion brilliant
for that reason i'm oot
The water is said to be 1000 times purer than the water you are using now. Less purity means more dissolving capacity of the water.
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further thoughts :D
being a big fan of radio fours "more or less" i decided to investgate the numbers behind these claims
how are we quantifying a billion? financial markets would say it is one thousand million but we aren't talking money so it must be a scientific billion or a million million or 1 000 000 000 000
now we have two ratios: zero parts per billion against zero parts per million. to compare we would have to multiply both numbers in each ratio by the same magnitude so that would be one million then.
oh err zero multiplied by one million is zero :o
so my water IS zero parts per billion brilliant
for that reason i'm oot
Not so sure about that one ;D .
Although it used to be different in the UK, these days a billion is defined as a thousand million.
I suppose that a ppm reading could show as zero even if the ppb reading is under 500. This is because any number under 500 ppb would be nearer to zero ppm that it would be to 1 ppm. So the only issue as far as I can see is with whether water is just under 1 ppm. Well I'm sure I sometimes use it at 1 ppm anyway by the time some dust has got into the tank and a tiny bit of contamination is pulled from pipe work in the van.
A 1000 million is correct ;D
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Read all about it.
Coming soon on an RO advert near you.
TDS - 0 parts per trillion.
Don't miss the next exciting episode.
Also in the Sunday Sport: My ex hubby shagged a frog for £1.26 and got no change.
It really makes me laugh when you get all sarcastic. Firstly, it shows you have nothing to offer this topic but more importantly it shows me that some window cleaners do not like window cleaning stuff on a window cleaning forum.
Are you sure you are visiting this forum for the right reasons? With that said, the 'frog' comment made me laugh and nearly spit my morning tea out lol
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Having read the article I conclude that it is:
More Snake Oil !
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Or it is different resin
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It is important to remember that this product is not officially launched. It will be at the Windex show in October I imagine and I believe Ionics will be coming out with its road show dates soon. So a close look at this system will be possible.
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It is important to remember that this product is not officially launched. It will be at the Windex show in October I imagine and I believe Ionics will be coming out with its road show dates soon. So a close look at this system will be possible.
it sounds interesting
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Given that today I'm cleaning with water at 2,000 parts per billion (+-500) and expect perfect results, I simply don't care about this at all.
As for more "dissolving capacity", do you really believe every press release you read, Lee?
Vin
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It makes me laugh. And then I laugh some more.
Remember the corrosive power of "pure water"? How it would make holes in your clothes, and rot your van out if you didn't protectakote it or whatever?
Then the pseudo-scientific "hot water is more corrosive in cleaning power than cold" to get you to buy a certain manufacturer's system?
And now Lee - by association you are giving credence to the "1 part in a billion" being better for window cleaning implication.
Some of these things may be scientifically accurate but seem to be taken out of context - in practical window cleaning terms it's pure bunkum.
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Sounds intresting.
But 1 thing for sure is the price would not be intresting enough for the average windy.
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got to give it to ionics!!they know how to make money!! Who will they be marketing this machine at?? how will they then market the other machines?? Stand by anyone just coming into window cleaning!!
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Given that today I'm cleaning with water at 2,000 parts per billion (+-500) and expect perfect results, I simply don't care about this at all.
As for more "dissolving capacity", do you really believe every press release you read, Lee?
Vin
Hey Vin, I never said I belived anything. Im reporting the news as it happens. Just ignore it, if it dont interest you - thats what I do.
Problem with me is that at the moment everything interests me lol
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It makes me laugh. And then I laugh some more.
Remember the corrosive power of "pure water"? How it would make holes in your clothes, and rot your van out if you didn't protectakote it or whatever?
Then the pseudo-scientific "hot water is more corrosive in cleaning power than cold" to get you to buy a certain manufacturer's system?
And now Lee - by association you are giving credence to the "1 part in a billion" being better for window cleaning implication.
Some of these things may be scientifically accurate but seem to be taken out of context - in practical window cleaning terms it's pure bunkum.
I understand. It is what it is.
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Given that today I'm cleaning with water at 2,000 parts per billion (+-500) and expect perfect results, I simply don't care about this at all.
As for more "dissolving capacity", do you really believe every press release you read, Lee?
Vin
Hey Vin, I never said I belived anything. Im reporting the news as it happens. Just ignore it, if it dont interest you - thats what I do.
Problem with me is that at the moment everything interests me lol
Ref the advice to ignore it, you seem to be assuming it doesn't interest me. It interests me greatly when people make utterly spurious scientific claims for anything. That kind of manipulation of the truth is of great importance to me.
Recently we've had "the fastest way to clean windows" - which wasn't the fastest in any way shape or form, along with loads of free advertising for Ungers' new range of heavyweight poles. Not a word of analysis or dissection let alone opinion at your end.
If you're interested in my opinion (and your post above suggests not, so I won't hold my breath; I expect sardonic derision rather than expressions of interest) you're not reporting news, you're reprinting press releases and recirculating company videos without critical thought.
Vin
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Given that today I'm cleaning with water at 2,000 parts per billion (+-500) and expect perfect results, I simply don't care about this at all.
As for more "dissolving capacity", do you really believe every press release you read, Lee?
Vin
Hey Vin, I never said I belived anything. Im reporting the news as it happens. Just ignore it, if it dont interest you - thats what I do.
Problem with me is that at the moment everything interests me lol
Ref the advice to ignore it, you seem to be assuming it doesn't interest me. It interests me greatly when people make utterly spurious scientific claims for anything. That kind of manipulation of the truth is of great importance to me.
Recently we've had "the fastest way to clean windows" - which wasn't the fastest in any way shape or form, along with loads of free advertising for Ungers' new range of heavyweight poles. Not a word of analysis or dissection let alone opinion at your end.
If you're interested in my opinion (and your post above suggests not, so I won't hold my breath; I expect sardonic derision rather than expressions of interest) you're not reporting news, you're reprinting press releases and recirculating company videos without critical thought.
Vin
Please don't get all sensitive on me Vin. Things really aint that bad ;D
By the way I don't think 'derision' is the word your looking for??
You take me the wrong way and over criticise. I blog, report anything on window cleaning, with and with out thought on the subject, so shoot me. I guess your not a fan ;D
The fastest way to clean windows is an illustration of wfp. A man of your intelligence should of picked that out. So what if we are advertising Unger's pole with out input from me. They have just been released...... I have not seen one yet.... waiting for Unger to get back to me on the interview...... jeez, Vin give us a break lol
I tell you what I am not going to do here Vin, is explain myself or apologize for something I am passionate about. I have brought a free publication to window cleaners packed full of stuff and my readership tells me that it has been the right thing to do.
My work as an industry journalist has just begun and evolving. Something that came with starting my magazine, I guess.
At heart, Im a window cleaner ;)
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Given that today I'm cleaning with water at 2,000 parts per billion (+-500) and expect perfect results, I simply don't care about this at all.
As for more "dissolving capacity", do you really believe every press release you read, Lee?
Vin
Hey Vin, I never said I belived anything. Im reporting the news as it happens. Just ignore it, if it dont interest you - thats what I do.
Problem with me is that at the moment everything interests me lol
Ref the advice to ignore it, you seem to be assuming it doesn't interest me. It interests me greatly when people make utterly spurious scientific claims for anything. That kind of manipulation of the truth is of great importance to me.
Recently we've had "the fastest way to clean windows" - which wasn't the fastest in any way shape or form, along with loads of free advertising for Ungers' new range of heavyweight poles. Not a word of analysis or dissection let alone opinion at your end.
If you're interested in my opinion (and your post above suggests not, so I won't hold my breath; I expect sardonic derision rather than expressions of interest) you're not reporting news, you're reprinting press releases and recirculating company videos without critical thought.
Vin
I just re- read your post, I am interested Vin, Im not interested in taking the p out of you either.
I suggest you email me to discuss further if you like, in a more friendly tone.
lee@windowcleaningmagazine.co.uk
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The squeegee _ I am sure when it came out was the fastest way to clean a window - but I am sure the witch hunters had their doubts.
The water fed pole was laughed at by the same witch hunters when it came out. When I first started using the waterfed pole - somewhere around 2000 - 2001 - lots of local window cleaners laughed and said it wouldn't work, many of them had reasonably sized window cleaning companies employing 10 men or more, all using ladders and guess what they now ALL have water fed poles.
Ionics like them or not have in my opinion, done a great job in showing many window cleaners something new, yes they must make money but of course that is why they are in business as theres no point in running a business and not making money, is there?
So to all the lovely witch hunters out there, why not give them chance to prove what they are saying about PPB, after all have they been wrong in what they have shown us in the past?
And don't forget they must have done something right as their systems/poles/technologies have been copied time and time again - mainly by you the window cleaner on a budget who builds your own systems.
What profits Ionic make on their systems matters not, and yes I know you can put together a system for a fraction of the price, but you can buy a Lada or a Rolls Royce to drive around in and they both do the same job of getting you from A - B, but I know which one I would prefer to travel in.
Those of you who doubt/mock others - should definately be more pro active in what you yourself are doing and stop wasting energy on being negative as you would quickly benefit from a more fruitful life yourself.
Wishing all of you a beneficial day.
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nicely put
i still think zero parts per billion is just bad science though ;D
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The squeegee _ I am sure when it came out was the fastest way to clean a window - but I am sure the witch hunters had their doubts.
The water fed pole was laughed at by the same witch hunters when it came out. When I first started using the waterfed pole - somewhere around 2000 - 2001 - lots of local window cleaners laughed and said it wouldn't work, many of them had reasonably sized window cleaning companies employing 10 men or more, all using ladders and guess what they now ALL have water fed poles.
Ionics like them or not have in my opinion, done a great job in showing many window cleaners something new, yes they must make money but of course that is why they are in business as theres no point in running a business and not making money, is there?
So to all the lovely witch hunters out there, why not give them chance to prove what they are saying about PPB, after all have they been wrong in what they have shown us in the past?
And don't forget they must have done something right as their systems/poles/technologies have been copied time and time again - mainly by you the window cleaner on a budget who builds your own systems.
What profits Ionic make on their systems matters not, and yes I know you can put together a system for a fraction of the price, but you can buy a Lada or a Rolls Royce to drive around in and they both do the same job of getting you from A - B, but I know which one I would prefer to travel in.
Those of you who doubt/mock others - should definately be more pro active in what you yourself are doing and stop wasting energy on being negative as you would quickly benefit from a more fruitful life yourself.
Wishing all of you a beneficial day.
Good post :)
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Outstanding tech coming out of the Ionics camp. Soon to be officially announced in June this year the new zeRO PPB System.
Looks awesome and purifies your water at 0 parts per billion!! This system promises to offer spot free results even on first cleans, uses less water and lower running costs.
www.windowcleaningmagazine.co.uk
OK Rhinoman I catch your drift - but your post about positivity isn't really what this thread is about is it?
It started with the above post - with fulsome wide-eyed praise - "Outstanding Tech" "Soon to be announced" "Looks awesome" "Purifies your water at 0 parts per billion!!" note exclamation marks.
Then we get "this system promises to offer spot free results even on first cleans" - well forgive me but so what? So what?!!! (note exclamation marks) If I don't get spot-free results on a first clean it isn't down to TDS being one thousandth of one part per million it's because I haven't rinsed properly/haven't allowed the vents to stop dripping/or I've brushed some of the anodising or dirt and muck from the frames etc onto the glass and not carefully rinsed it away.
Do you believe that 0 per billion is going to make any difference to spots? Does that make sense?
Then we get "it uses less water" - no qualification by the magazine editor - just repeating what he has been told. Less water than what? A leaky sieve? A fire engine? Where's the objective journalism?
Then "lower running costs" - than what? A self built system using water harvesting? A previous Ionics system? A Rolls-Royce? A Lada?
This thread was started for one reason only in my opinion - to direct attention to lee's magazine. And in that he has succeeded. But if taking favourable report straight from Ionics will help Lee then so be it but do we prospective readers get unbiased analysis?
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What I would like to see is an analysis of cost because after all the bottom line is what business men want at the end of the day!
So how long would the filters last if you lived in an area with (average) xxx TDS. How much to replace the filters? How long would you expect the Unit to last for before it is junked? and therefore how much would the water cost per litre coming out of the end? etc
It does seem strange that none of us are quite sure how much we should be charging but the manufacturers can't give us any real figures after all the only people we are impressing with all the kit are window cleaners customers just want the windows cleaned and would be happy with a nice chap that comes regularly with a magic rag and a ladder.
I was just online researching and ofwat reckon water is 0.2p per litre coming out of the tap that's residential by the way could be higher in your area could be lower. So a cheap RO where a good deal goes down the drain and your looking at 1p a litre how long do the filters last on a cheap RO and how long does the DI resin last it could be £20 on a 1000 litre tank of water before you even pulled off the drive!
And don't get me started on Diesel costs. ;D
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Hi lee if you get any unger poles that need road testing send em my way
Nudge nudge wink wink ;)
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Outstanding tech coming out of the Ionics camp. Soon to be officially announced in June this year the new zeRO PPB System.
Looks awesome and purifies your water at 0 parts per billion!! This system promises to offer spot free results even on first cleans, uses less water and lower running costs.
www.windowcleaningmagazine.co.uk
OK Rhinoman I catch your drift - but your post about positivity isn't really what this thread is about is it?
It started with the above post - with fulsome wide-eyed praise - "Outstanding Tech" "Soon to be announced" "Looks awesome" "Purifies your water at 0 parts per billion!!" note exclamation marks.
Then we get "this system promises to offer spot free results even on first cleans" - well forgive me but so what? So what?!!! (note exclamation marks) If I don't get spot-free results on a first clean it isn't down to TDS being one thousandth of one part per million it's because I haven't rinsed properly/haven't allowed the vents to stop dripping/or I've brushed some of the anodising or dirt and muck from the frames etc onto the glass and not carefully rinsed it away.
Do you believe that 0 per billion is going to make any difference to spots? Does that make sense?
Then we get "it uses less water" - no qualification by the magazine editor - just repeating what he has been told. Less water than what? A leaky sieve? A fire engine? Where's the objective journalism?
Then "lower running costs" - than what? A self built system using water harvesting? A previous Ionics system? A Rolls-Royce? A Lada?
This thread was started for one reason only in my opinion - to direct attention to lee's magazine. And in that he has succeeded. But if taking favourable report straight from Ionics will help Lee then so be it but do we prospective readers get unbiased analysis?
Dude stop being an ass, take a chill pill and enjoy life a little. It really is not that a big deal. And like I said before I do what I do because if I hear something new, I tell people.
Have you even read the magazine, I wonder?
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Hi lee if you get any unger poles that need road testing send em my way
Nudge nudge wink wink ;)
Lol no probs - if that is ok with others..... you might have to ask?? ( notice the question marks)
Im sorry to be flippant, I simply find these out burst so funny. Im still gonna do what Im gonna do lol
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Well for me I WILL try it and then make up my mind
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Dude stop being an ass, take a chill pill and enjoy life a little. It really is not that a big deal. And like I said before I do what I do because if I hear something new, I tell people.
Have you even read the magazine, I wonder?
Your standard derisive* response to anyone suggesting you're less than perfect is that they are stressed, wound up, or taking things too seriously. Has it occurred to you that there might be some truth in what people are saying and that you could improve your magazine's reputation by looking behind the fluff of the PR releases you receive?
Vin
*Derisive: Expressing contempt or ridicule
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This is how "1000" times purer actually works.
My tap water TDS is around 300 ppm. For the sake of maths, lets say the water I clean with is 1ppm and I have a 1000 litre tank.
1000 litres of water = 1 million grams of water, so my cheapo Vyair RO and DI remove 299 grams of the dissolved solids
To get that reading down to 1 part per billion would require removing an additional 0.999 grams of dissolved solids, a whopping 0.3% extra impurities,... thats worth spending an extra few grand isn't it??
::) ::) ::)
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This is how "1000" times purer actually works.
My tap water TDS is around 300 ppm. For the sake of maths, lets say the water I clean with is 1ppm and I have a 1000 litre tank.
1000 litres of water = 1 million grams of water, so my cheapo Vyair RO and DI remove 299 grams of the dissolved solids
To get that reading down to 1 part per billion would require removing an additional 0.999 grams of dissolved solids, a whopping 0.3% extra impurities,... thats worth spending an extra few grand isn't it??
::) ::) ::)
Plus extra cleaning power. Once you have spent the grand your quids in.
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Lee, you make me smile. ;)
I think this post Ian lancaster put in another thread chimes with me...
I tell the lads that anything under 10 is fine - and it is, never any complaints that could be attributed to "unpure" water. Most of them have 300gpd's that produce in the low teens before DI and we have one 40-40 that consistently produces 6-7 and we don't bother with DI for that one.
000 is not a magic number, all you need is water that is pure enough not to allow any dissolved material to precipitate out on the glass as it dries. The is no law that says this has to be below 1 ppm, that's just a convenient benchmark - if the result is as required, the water is pure enough. We've just heard of Ionics "0 parts per billion" - that's not going to make the window any cleaner, it's just a gimmick Ionics have dreamed up to entrap the gullible.