Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: AuRavelling79 on March 07, 2012, 10:00:35 am
-
Well?
-
Malc, why not drop Alex a line and see if he can resurrect the video he had of their system being crash tested through the stages - he's pretty trustworthy.
-
I voted no, and I hope I never do, I do know that a piece of wood will not hold a tank of tank still if crashed though, seen a few bits on here that would give insurance companies nightmares till they realize they have a get out clause for dangerous loads
-
Over a hundred views and no votes - come on guys - participate - you won't go to hell for this!
;D
-
I put my back out while I was humping it up the garden. And squashed my finger once.
-
Well?
I do know of one chap locally who had an accident at about 25mph with a ratchet strapped 650 litre tank in the back. The only injuries (minor) he sustained were directly from the crash. However the tank had slid forward so far that it had crushed the bulkhead and had started to push his seat forward - all at just 25mph. This scared him so much that his replacement van had a professionally fitted metal restraint system, which although not crash tested was a lot better than his previous set-up.
-
Malc, why not drop Alex a line and see if he can resurrect the video he had of their system being crash tested through the stages - he's pretty trustworthy.
That video has been re-edited recently ready for the re-release of these crash-tested systems. I will email you the YouTube link.
-
I do know of an incident with a van that had an Omnipole tank fitted. The pictures were posted n here a few years ago. The van looked a mess. The tank didn't move. Impact speed is something I don't recall though. Some may remember the company that had the crash. It was a guy who was using a superhero logo who disappeared into the ether when he tried to expand too quickly - presumably cash flow issues.
-
Just goes to show over 90% dont have a bolted chassis system, and just like the ladder guys who wont secure a ladder, most, think what Alex gardier says wont happen to them, thanks Alex for the info, and this is at 25mph.
I value my and my sons life, thats why we have ionics fitted system, yes its not cheap, and costs more to insure, but at least unlike others on here, " I put my money where my mouth is", enough said
idealrob
-
Well?
I do know of one chap locally who had an accident at about 25mph with a ratchet strapped 650 litre tank in the back. The only injuries (minor) he sustained were directly from the crash. However the tank had slid forward so far that it had crushed the bulkhead and had started to push his seat forward - all at just 25mph. This scared him so much that his replacement van had a professionally fitted metal restraint system, which although not crash tested was a lot better than his previous set-up.
Gold's other post asked about having the tank against the bulkhead. If not the above situation will happen.
I imagine if I had this experience I would do the same as above.
I have seen a 650 IBC strapped down with a 1Tonne strap, I recommended he re-think.
The issues crop up when there are large amounts of water as above with a vaguely baffled tank set at the rear of the van.
A small tank well baffled set against the bulkhead will react differently.
However, I can't fault Idealrob's comment, with what some claim to earn paying for a fitted system should be no issue.
-
Problem is that on quite a few vans if you have the tank completely against the bulkhead you have too much weight on the front wheels. You ideally want 50/50 weight distribution. Not just for handling, but also for safety.
-
With the amount of forces involved I think having it against the bulkhead will do little other than possibly overload the front axle. I think you are deluded if you think it offers much protection.
-
yes Tim I agree it does cut down your payload ability as if you max out you overload your front axle, when up against bulkhead.
however, in line with Sunshines comments on Alex post I noticed to, I would never trust my tank set back away from the bulkhead with straps only to the lashing point, as when it does go it will hit the bulkhead with force. at least when it's up tight to the bulkhead this takes the pressure off the straps.
is there a way of seeing what the bulkhead is rated off, or capable of holding (not something that's moving from the back of the van)?
-
this is something i posted a while back,
facelift have kitted out all our vans over the years & this is the second time our vans have been involved in an accident, occuppants safe on both occasions , one at 70mph and this one at 40mph, both times tanks have stayed in place, if fitted by someone else they probably still would have stayed in place but ill never know. what i do know is i am glad they were fitted by proffessionals and not myself and a mate etc. i know some of you fit them yourselfs and im not saying thats a bad idea but please be careful and make sure it is right.
george
-
this is something i posted a while back,
facelift have kitted out all our vans over the years & this is the second time our vans have been involved in an accident, occuppants safe on both occasions , one at 70mph and this one at 40mph, both times tanks have stayed in place, if fitted by someone else they probably still would have stayed in place but ill never know. what i do know is i am glad they were fitted by proffessionals and not myself and a mate etc. i know some of you fit them yourselfs and im not saying thats a bad idea but please be careful and make sure it is right.
george
forgot to say, they are now fitted by x-line, to high safety standards,
-
Well?
I do know of one chap locally who had an accident at about 25mph with a ratchet strapped 650 litre tank in the back. The only injuries (minor) he sustained were directly from the crash. However the tank had slid forward so far that it had crushed the bulkhead and had started to push his seat forward - all at just 25mph. This scared him so much that his replacement van had a professionally fitted metal restraint system, which although not crash tested was a lot better than his previous set-up.
Thanks Alex - do you know if the ratchets straps:
A) broke
B) broke the d rings
C) pulled the points from the van "bed"
D) mixture/other
This is useful stuff ... thanks everyone
Sounds like the metal straps through the van floor and round major cross members (bolted chassis system) is the way to go. (and declaring the mod) Both like Nathanael /Alex suggests.
And yes - it is obvious that against the bulkhead is going to cause less impact damage than if a tank lets go and slides into it. Loading guidelines say you should load against the bulkhead and strap to loading points but only to half the vehicle payload.
But I'm not talking about in the event of a high impact crash - just loading safety guidelines that drivers are expected to treat as the basic standard as they drive about doing their deliveries.
And good point George P
-
Just goes to show over 90% dont have a bolted chassis system, and just like the ladder guys who wont secure a ladder, most, think what Alex gardier says wont happen to them, thanks Alex for the info, and this is at 25mph.
I value my and my sons life, thats why we have ionics fitted system, yes its not cheap, and costs more to insure, but at least unlike others on here, " I put my money where my mouth is", enough said
idealrob
Indeed. My tank was fitted at Omnipole. I don't think they have the moreformalised crash test like Ionics have but it is fitted just as sturdily.
-
mine has always been strapped to bulkhead, 400 ltr upright in a transit connect no problems ever with handling but i have recently had two iron bars welded across from each pillar tank ain't going nowhere now.
paul
-
Hi Gold
It was a mixture of the straps allowing too much forward movement, due to incorrect placement, and then one of the ratchet straps rings giving way because it was then being subject to far too much loading strain. Once 700kg has started sliding it takes more than a 2000kg rated ratchet strap loop to stop it.
The important thing with stopping a system is not letting any forward movement start. This is where ratchet straps can pose an issue as they by nature stretch and if used diagonally allow for a degree of forward movement. Once momentum of a load has started then the force it can exert becomes greater.
Placing against a bulkhead can be very useful for stopping this movement from starting, but should only be used for loads that are about half of your payload. So for instance if you have a 900kg payload you should put no more than 400litre of tank against the bulkhead. Loads should be for legal and safety reasons placed in a position where the load is balanced across both axles. This means that rarely are the built in fixing loops or ratchet straps of any use for this.
-
I guess it depends on the wheelbase as to whether up against the bulkhead is positioned halfway.
The longer the van the less likely this is.
-
Malc, why not drop Alex a line and see if he can resurrect the video he had of their system being crash tested through the stages - he's pretty trustworthy.
That video has been re-edited recently ready for the re-release of these crash-tested systems. I will email you the YouTube link.
Can you email me plaese alex if you wouldnt mind.
brianbarber33@aol.com
-
ditto....or could someone post the link plz?
-
http://youtu.be/SrbvYwVQWZw
Here you go Alex can't post the link. I don't have this system and am not promoting it at all, but due to the lack of research you won't find many examples apart from Ionics. Interesting viewing, I had a shunt the other week, nothing mega - you just think it will never happen. It's not the video I saw some time ago because I can't see if the tanks were secured at all.
-
Can you email me please Alex if you wouldn't mind.
brianbarber33@aol.com
email sent :)
-
http://youtu.be/SrbvYwVQWZw
Here you go Alex can't post the link. I don't have this system and am not promoting it at all, but due to the lack of research you won't find many examples apart from Ionics. Interesting viewing, I had a shunt the other week, nothing mega - you just think it will never happen. It's not the video I saw some time ago because I can't see if the tanks were secured at all.
It is not exactly the same video as the original, but uses some of the same footage. What I will do is upload the basic footage of the first crash where everything explodes everywhere - this first system was fitted down, but not to the same standard as the final systems that achieved a 'Full Compliance Rating' from MIRA.
-
Slightly off topic Alex, but do you have any plans to do a "hot" system? Good to see you are bringing your van systems back to market.
-
http://youtu.be/SrbvYwVQWZw
Dont worry, lads, your tanks bungeed to the floor will survive an accident just fine.
-
Slightly off topic Alex, but do you have any plans to do a "hot" system? Good to see you are bringing your van systems back to market.
No plans right now, but it is something that is being looked at.
-
It would be nice to have a quality, professionally installed option with a refillable lpg tank please. (At a reasonable price of course).
-
Here is a link to an Epic Failure!
http://youtu.be/w56cXOXtrrk (http://youtu.be/w56cXOXtrrk)
-
Here is a link to an Epic Failure!
http://youtu.be/w56cXOXtrrk (http://youtu.be/w56cXOXtrrk)
Alex, do you have any detail on how that tank was restrained?
-
Here is a link to an Epic Failure!
http://youtu.be/w56cXOXtrrk (http://youtu.be/w56cXOXtrrk)
Alex, do you have any detail on how that tank was restrained?
Two 12mm bolts through the floor with 10cm x 10cm spreader plates at the front and at the back. This was attached to 3mm box section that was holding the tank down. What happened was that this allowed for too much upper movement in the tank system hence the folding over on itself. This was an initial test back in early 2009. It felt pretty secure, but we wanted to see the effect on an ordinary systems.
Interestingly if a bulkhead had been fitted to the van then the driver would have probably been OK, but with maybe a head-ache >:(
-
Alex
as you know I have 2 of your origonal systems fitted
Have you redesigned the filler necks, as they are about 30% slower to fill using a nozzle compared to a free flow valve
-
http://www.ionicsystems.com/english/crash_testing_barrier.html This was the clincher for me, that is why I went to Ionics.
-
Alex
as you know I have 2 of your origonal systems fitted
Have you redesigned the filler necks, as they are about 30% slower to fill using a nozzle compared to a free flow valve
We have redesigned the fillers. They now have a single 7" diameter lid at the rear of the system. This allows for maximum speed of filling when used with a remote processing water systems as with your set-up. It also has a new design lid which is completely burst-proof in case of an accident. The good news is this can be retro-fitted to your systems for very little cost. Drop me an email.
-
Hi Alex
Is the little cost "free" :-) ?
I will email soon, I can now save 5 mins per day per van, on filling up, which equals £10 per week
-
Hi Alex
Is the little cost "free" :-) ?
I will email soon, I can now save 5 mins per day per van, on filling up, which equals £10 per week
No it's not free - even to you :)
Basically it means purchasing a new lid at about £12 each and then a little DIY with a jigsaw. I will explain in an email or give me a call on the phone.
-
Hi Alex
I cannot do DIY, dont have the time or the skills. :-(
are you selling your systems again ?
-
Hi Alex
I cannot do DIY, dont have the time or the skills. :-(
are you selling your systems again ?
I will drop you an email.
-
come on Mr Morris forum administrator, drop the guy an email and stop taking this topic off topic you spammer you! :P
-
THIS IS MY VAN I was hit side on at 25mph and tank did move but not much, glad I had eye bolts professional fitted!
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1331248815_vanwriteoff.jpg)
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1331249057_404369_3283404246108_1297673654_33266361_66254658_n.jpg)
-
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1331249210_427042_3283397805947_1297673654_33266360_641913260_n.jpg)
-
So when is someone going to do a crash test with a bulkhead in place and a tank against it?
-
So when is someone going to do a crash test with a bulkhead in place and a tank against it?
Lets start a fund for testing cost (time and money), give all the money to Alex Gardiner, and let him test it. If he's up for it. Problem is, there are a lot of variables, we would need to have one test, one system, incorporating all criteria as I would imagine cost would rise the more runs you do.
Mind you, you'd need a lot of people donating £10 or more. :D
-
So when is someone going to do a crash test with a bulkhead in place and a tank against it?
There must be a nice, solid brick wall near you that you could use...
-
So when is someone going to do a crash test with a bulkhead in place and a tank against it?
There must be a nice, solid brick wall near you that you could use...
I was thinking "Old Tranny (Tosh's missus lives with one! ;D) - motorway flyover pillar ..."
-
i got hit from brhind by a jag a few yrs ago when i was using a transit connect
i had a 400 litre tank againnst bulkhead which i had strapped in with three
5 tonne ratchet straps with claws they reckoned on ispection of damage jag
was doing ell over 30mph i was stationary the tank didnt budge an inch!
-
i got hit from brhind by a jag a few yrs ago when i was using a transit connect
i had a 400 litre tank againnst bulkhead which i had strapped in with three
5 tonne ratchet straps with claws they reckoned on ispection of damage jag
was doing ell over 30mph i was stationary the tank didnt budge an inch!
I wonder how that would fair with proper testing at MIRA?
-
i got hit from brhind by a jag a few yrs ago when i was using a transit connect
i had a 400 litre tank againnst bulkhead which i had strapped in with three
5 tonne ratchet straps with claws they reckoned on ispection of damage jag
was doing ell over 30mph i was stationary the tank didnt budge an inch!
Interesting - how much water did you have in it?
I know I accelerated sharply out of a junction when I had a 175L in the back of my Honda Accord - it was stopped from moving forward but not backwards - it slid back and smashed out the back window!
-
So ... the 4/5 that have put that they know personally of a case where the tank caused injury (other than carrying it up the garden ;D -) details please - you wouldn't want us thinking that it was a naughty system manufacturer padding the figures would you?
Above comments not directed at Alex who has as always given a comprehensive and useful answer.