Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Tony_C on February 20, 2012, 02:42:41 pm
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Following disapointing results using SPM I advertised 15kg tub for sale, fortunately no one bought it, so I gave it another try today.
5 bed house, wool mix cream carpet, moderately dirty, lot of black spots to ground floor. Mixed SPM on site, (usually mix pre-spays at home) vacuumed, sprayed down, 15 minute dwell time, (no agitation) hwe, very little spotting required. Carpets looked like new.
Custy and I extremely happy.
No tip :o
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Well done! glad you had a better experience this time around!
Good results without agitation too ;D
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Good work fella..... :)
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Think Solutions have got to Tony C what do you think
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Think Solutions have got to Tony C what do you think
Have you tried SPM?
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what do you think
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Colin tries his hardest not to think
;D ;D ;D
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what do you think
Obviously you haven't, that's what I think.....
Am I right?
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Colin tries his hardest not to think
;D ;D ;D
I do think...I just stop thinking when the wife comes home, it keeps me out of trouble ;D
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;D ;D ;D
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so you tried it found it crap so tried to sell it..... then tried it again and it worked.
not really conclusive results, you need to use the full container then make a decision
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i am quite confused by SPM. The label says no optical brighteners. However everyone says it contains Soluboost which is described by Solutions as an oxygenating brightener ???
My concern is over its long term effect on Wool carpets. Does anyone know if Solution recommend it for use on Wool? Does it contain oxidisers or optical brighteners?
Nigel
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so you tried it found it crap so tried to sell it..... then tried it again and it worked.
not really conclusive results, you need to use the full container then make a decision
I agree, I'm only half way through my tub and I've had it for a few months... So far, I and my customers have been happy 100% of the time. But I will refrain from bigging it up any more until I've finished the whole tub.... ;)
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Yer me too Colin, used it on about 20 jobs so far with great results... and there's loads left so i'll give everyone my conclusion as and when.... ;D
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i am quite confused by SPM. The label says no optical brighteners. However everyone says it contains Soluboost which is described by Solutions as an oxygenating brightener ???
My concern is over its long term effect on Wool carpets. Does anyone know if Solution recommend it for use on Wool? Does it contain oxidisers or optical brighteners?
Nigel
I'll see if I can find you a definitive and honest answer, Nigel... :)
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I was suprised to hear it had OB because I use it on all sorts of things including my own 80/20 carpets which I have done several times over the last 12 months thanks to Fido and I can see no degradation at all.
Waits for the Ah but under a magnifying glass response! ;D
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I would think the long term effect on wool carpets is negligible( if not non-existent) as it is rinsed of the fibre within 10-15mins unlike a detergent containing optical brighteners which is partly left on the fibre.
I think the term oxygenating brightener is a descriptive term rather than a scientific one
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I think I am on my 3rd tub now, works great on all types of carpets.
I would imagine using my TM to flush it out would keep carpet safe,
i always have a acidic rinse in tank.
Couldnt say if there will be any long term damage
Andrew
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The thread that keeps on giving ::)
Don't suppliars have to pay to advertise on these forums?
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I would think the long term effect on wool carpets is negligible( if not non-existent) as it is rinsed of the fibre within 10-15mins unlike a detergent containing optical brighteners which is partly left on the fibre.
I think the term oxygenating brightener is a descriptive term rather than a scientific one
Mike the SPM instructions give you guidelines for in tank portable use and metering concentrates for Truckmounts.
Nigel
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in that case forget me previous post........ the carpet will melt and burst into flames within 20 mins releasing a radioactive dust cloud that will engulf the planet causing the death of all known life :o :o :o
to be sensible...... that's the problem with chemicals were the manufacturer doesn't give you the option to use a a pre-spray without the oxygen booster its got to be used on everything even if it not needed or suitable
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If you mix it cold, the OB won't be activated anyway.... Surely ???
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One thing i have noticed, after just three years carpet cleaning i am down to probably three chemicals now rather than having loads of stuff on the van, i use powerburst, and SPM, sometimes use ultrapac but thats it, almost the same with spotters the same ones come out on most jobs solvex, citrus gel, stain pro i did wonder whether SPM can be used as a spotter in the same way as pureclean a similar product i think, Prochem say you can mix it up very strong with almost boiling water and spot with it, i have had good results using it like this and wonder if spm can be used like this too.
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SPM does not contain optical brightener.
It contains an Oxy boost type of thing.
This needs good hand hot water in the sprayer when mixing to activate It will then carry on for an hour or so. Too hot water will make it fizz and losr the oxy bit too quickly. It is best to mix enough for the job- 5 litres for an average 3 bed semi.
It will carry on working for a longer time but the oxy bit will be lost as the oxygen will be spent.
It works.
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..15 minute dwell time, (no agitation) hwe,
You may have been lucky on this occasion. Why on earth do you not agitate? its just as important as the other processes. Surely you wouldnt put shampoo in your hair and then rinse straight away without getting your fingers in your hair? No, of course not because you know its essential.
Quite simply your results would be better. It aint rocket science is it.
Mark
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I think we all need to go back to the science classroom (or wikipedia ;) ;) )
"An oxidizing agent (also called an oxidant, oxidizer or oxidiser) can be defined as a substance that removes electrons from another reactant in a redox chemical reaction. The oxidizing agent is "reduced" by taking electrons onto itself and the reactant is "oxidized" by having its electrons taken away. Oxygen is the prime example of an oxidizing agent, but it is only one among many" {source} (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxidiser)
"Optical brighteners [...] are dyes that absorb light in the ultraviolet and violet region [...] of the electromagnetic spectrum, and re-emit light in the blue region [...] These additives are often used to enhance the appearance of color of fabric and paper, causing a "whitening" effect, making materials look less yellow by increasing the overall amount of blue light reflected" {source} (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_brightener)
Optical brighteners and oxidising agents are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS!!
Admittedly, the term "oxygenating brightener" is a little confusing. It sounds better than "oxygenating bleach" though ;)
Still doesn't sound as bad as Dihydrogen monoxide and I get through gallons of it every day ;) ;)
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So it contains an oxidising bleach. Surely it makes more sense to use a standard micro splitter/ detergent pre spray and add the oxidising bleach as a booster when required in extreme circumstances. I think this as the arrangement with Solutions Mpower and soluboost. Maybe this particular version of oxidising bleach is ok. It would be nice to know though before hosing down wool carpets with it.
I wonder if Prochem Pureclean contain "oxygenating brighteners"? Or do any other pre spray/carpet rinses contain them?
Nigel
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Nigel I think the amount of it in the mixture is nowhere near as much as what you'd add to a pre-spray if you were mixing it yourself. Why not ask the main man on WoC? ;)
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Hi Jim,
I will ask Nick next time I speak to him. This thread reminded me of my concerns about using SPM on wool. I just thought some of the regular SPM users/supporters would know the answers ;)
Nigel
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..15 minute dwell time, (no agitation) hwe,
You may have been lucky on this occasion. Why on earth do you not agitate? its just as important as the other processes. Surely you wouldnt put shampoo in your hair and then rinse straight away without getting your fingers in your hair? No, of course not because you know its essential.
Quite simply your results would be better. It aint rocket science is it.
Mark
What if it was a loop pile wool carpet? You would risk pulling and fuzzing the carpet fibres if you agitated. Sometimes all a carpet needs is a longer dwell time if you think there is a risk of damage to the carpet fibres....
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On berbers I wouldn't rotary but I would contra rotate :o but on certain occassions I may just use a pre spray only, I haven't tried SPM as I have a garage full of alsorts to get rid of first but it's on my list.
Shaun
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..15 minute dwell time, (no agitation) hwe,
You may have been lucky on this occasion. Why on earth do you not agitate? its just as important as the other processes. Surely you wouldnt put shampoo in your hair and then rinse straight away without getting your fingers in your hair? No, of course not because you know its essential.
Quite simply your results would be better. It aint rocket science is it.
Mark
What if it was a loop pile wool carpet? You would risk pulling and fuzzing the carpet fibres if you agitated. Sometimes all a carpet needs is a longer dwell time if you think there is a risk of damage to the carpet fibres....
Obviously agitating on a loop carries risks - and I presumed he (a CC who would/should know this) knew this already. Didnt realise I had to add this to my comments ???
I'll re-phrase what I said Colin ..."except berber loops where it may be deemed risky thus possibly causing fuzzing/fibre damage - except where a carpet may be heavily worn and the risk is acceptable in the circumstances". or something like that.
Is that better :)
Mark
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S P M does not contain optical brightners and Tony C have you ever tried mixing spm on the job as this keeps it hot and this is how it works best and if you want better results try a bit of agitating Des
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was gonna have a snoop at its contents , but cant see an MSDS sheet for SMP or Mpower ...
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was gonna have a snoop at its contents , but cant see an MSDS sheet for SMP or Mpower ...
Nick with gladly provide one at your request... But that's gonna be difficult as he will have to send it to never never land to reach you..... ;D
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..15 minute dwell time, (no agitation) hwe,
You may have been lucky on this occasion. Why on earth do you not agitate? its just as important as the other processes. Surely you wouldnt put shampoo in your hair and then rinse straight away without getting your fingers in your hair? No, of course not because you know its essential.
Quite simply your results would be better. It aint rocket science is it.
Mark
What if it was a loop pile wool carpet? You would risk pulling and fuzzing the carpet fibres if you agitated. Sometimes all a carpet needs is a longer dwell time if you think there is a risk of damage to the carpet fibres....
Obviously agitating on a loop carries risks - and I presumed he (a CC who would/should know this) knew this already. Didnt realise I had to add this to my comments ???
I'll re-phrase what I said Colin ..."except berber loops where it may be deemed risky thus possibly causing fuzzing/fibre damage - except where a carpet may be heavily worn and the risk is acceptable in the circumstances". or something like that.
Is that better :)
Mark
Marginally less condescending as you didn't finish it off with the "It's not rocket science" bit... Well done you!!!! ;D
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..15 minute dwell time, (no agitation) hwe,
You may have been lucky on this occasion. Why on earth do you not agitate? its just as important as the other processes. Surely you wouldnt put shampoo in your hair and then rinse straight away without getting your fingers in your hair? No, of course not because you know its essential.
Quite simply your results would be better. It aint rocket science is it.
Mark
Why on earth would you agitate if getting excellent results without.
Agitating takes time, time is money. It aint rocket science is it.
What was the point of your post? Was it to appear superior if so you failed.
Was it to improve your post count - well done.
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..15 minute dwell time, (no agitation) hwe,
You may have been lucky on this occasion. Why on earth do you not agitate? its just as important as the other processes. Surely you wouldnt put shampoo in your hair and then rinse straight away without getting your fingers in your hair? No, of course not because you know its essential.
Quite simply your results would be better. It aint rocket science is it.
Mark
Why on earth would you agitate if getting excellent results without.
Agitating takes time, time is money. It aint rocket science is it.
What was the point of your post? Was it to appear superior if so you failed.
Was it to improve your post count - well done.
Touché ;D
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..15 minute dwell time, (no agitation) hwe,
You may have been lucky on this occasion. Why on earth do you not agitate? its just as important as the other processes. Surely you wouldnt put shampoo in your hair and then rinse straight away without getting your fingers in your hair? No, of course not because you know its essential.
Quite simply your results would be better. It aint rocket science is it.
Mark
Why on earth would you agitate if getting excellent results without.
Agitating takes time, time is money. It aint rocket science is it.
What was the point of your post? Was it to appear superior if so you failed.
Was it to improve your post count - well done.
You were complaining that you couldnt get a result and that you dont agitate. I was explaining obviously why (my analogy is absolute sense - as you know). Perhaps you dont understand what CHAT means? Most CC's do.
Maybe your a splash n dash (as you say it takes 'time' to do this, so lets cut this bit out) - well done.
Mark
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(http://www.moretvicar.com/sysimages/origimages/dty16wht-print_pr2195_2.jpg)
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Laundry detergent contain fluorescers (optical brightners) they are really just for whites, we use blue fluorescers, some countries used to use red as they believed the red White looks whiter whilst we believed the blue White looks whiter.
Thats why White shirts glow blue under UV. - it's the detergent.
You can usually see if our c/cing detergents have flouecesers because it has a blue glow.
To see if SPM has just put under UV light.
But to be honest it's to diluted to have any effect on carpets.
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So what is the key to using this agitation or dwell time?
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When I use SPM, I spray it down very hot (a kettle which has been boiled 10 minutes previously), brush it immediately with a Rotowash, run my hoses and warm up the TM, then get busy extracting.
So, it gets a good agitation, and approx 15 minutes dwell time. I spray any dark patches first to give them longest dwell.
This is what works for me.
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Still undecided on SPM, twice in the last couple of weeks i have had a wool carpet and the traffic lane was a little more soiled than elsewhere, tried SPM not happy with the results got some Powerburst which improved it quite a lot, feel like using Powerburst on everything ::) i have yet to find anything as good on synthetic or wool trouble is i worry about using it on wool, if i thought it were without risk i would only use Powerburst.
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James what is the risk of using it on wool?
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Paul
I honestly don't know, in three years i have been using it i am still waiting for that wool berber to turn yellow, but they sell stuff thats safe on wool, Powerburst aint one of them, ergo it could damage wool.
Have to ask woolsafe you know those people that endorse those products that we know bleach carpets, maybe not. I think the science suggests that higher alkaline can damage wool, over to you Doug
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James, i'm sure if you look on the side of the tun, it says you can use it on wool, but must acid rinse!!
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I stand to be corrected but isn't/wasn't it taught that wool carpets should be left in an acidic state preferably around the ph6 to 7 range, therefore a high alkaline cleaner needs to be 'corrected.'
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James, i'm sure if you look on the side of the tun, it says you can use it on wool, but must acid rinse!!
Yes it does, a carpet i did this week was a wool berber it was spotless just lightly soiled but the traffic lane next to the kitchen was dirtier i had to mix up some Powerburst to get a decent result, i do find it frustrating, maybe i am lazy but it can be a real pain having to re-clean. does anyone just use Powerburst.
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If flushed / rinsed correctly power burst drys neautral
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I use Powerburst alot and Hydramaster blitz!!!! both are really good!
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I use Powerburst alot and Hydramaster blitz!!!! both are really good!
ut Billy, why use a sledgehammer to crack a nut??
;)
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I use Powerburst alot and Hydramaster blitz!!!! both are really good!
ut Billy, why use a sledgehammer to crack a nut??
;)
Because its quicker and you get a more through clean, thats about it really 8)
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Well said Mossy!!! ;D
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Ditto but if I were to get some free sample of spm I would give it a go
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Shame you weren't a bit closer Len, you could of had half the tub i've got!! ;)
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If you have a TM the flush is greater so providing your water ph is around neutral then the dilution will send it that way, without getting into a debate of porty to TM you do clean differently with a TM.
I only use an acid rinse if I'm protecting something, as for pre sprays I use different once but don't be fooled into thinking because products are eco friendly or leave no tracable residue that they are set within the Woolsafe parameters, Pure clean is a Micro splitter and has a ph9 not sure what the ph of SPM is?
Shaun
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Shaun whats a Micro splitter?
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Hang on he's searching google!!!
;D ;D ;D
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Wiki pedia
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If flushed / rinsed correctly power burst drys neautral
Everything dries neutral things aren't acidic or alkaline until they are wet
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If you have a TM the flush is greater so providing your water ph is around neutral then the dilution will send it that way, without getting into a debate of porty to TM you do clean differently with a TM.
I only use an acid rinse if I'm protecting something, as for pre sprays I use different once but don't be fooled into thinking because products are eco friendly or leave no tracable residue that they are set within the Woolsafe parameters, Pure clean is a Micro splitter and has a ph9 not sure what the ph of SPM is?
Shaun
9.9
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Marketing bumf invented about 15 years ago by Amtech.
Shaun
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what is?
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If flushed / rinsed correctly power burst drys neautral
Everything dries neutral things aren't acidic or alkaline until they are wet
So how can a carpet be left in an acid state or alkaline state?
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If flushed / rinsed correctly power burst drys neautral
Everything dries neutral things aren't acidic or alkaline until they are wet
So how can a carpet be left in an acid state or alkaline state?
Please enlighten us ordinary folk oh master!!!!!
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If flushed / rinsed correctly power burst drys neautral
Everything dries neutral things aren't acidic or alkaline until they are wet
So how can a carpet be left in an acid state or alkaline state?
Please enlighten us ordinary folk oh master!!!!!
He will have to charge you to enlighten you ;D
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It's the time it takes to dry (or stay damp for) that can do the damage (if at all) a good rinse will neutralise it BUT if the carpet is left to dry in a high ph state then the next cleaner could in theory have a potential problem if he/she is then going in to clean or stain remove.
All ifs and buts.
Shaun
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Ph will register if water is added as goron says as you need hydrogen. If you want to get an accurate ph result test when nearly dry or dry and add a small amount of pure water.
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The problem with pH isn't after it is dry, it is whilst it is drying... the longer the drying time if pH left high, the more likely browning is to occur. Simple as that.
Residue/resoiling however is another issue entirely :)
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Yeah but no but yeah but ph has never been confirmed as a contributing factor of resoiling.
Shaun
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Has anyone ever seen or browned a carpet after cleaning. Only ever seen browning from a water damage problem.
Mark
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Shaun, I was referring to residue causing re-soiling, not pH ;)
Mark, I've never browned a carpet from cleaning but know of some that have, and fixed a few that have. Always 100% of the time the drying time has been long. It's the length of time it's wet PLUS the alkalinity that browns wool. Each factor on its own in my experience not a big problem.
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I have fixed a few for a customer of ours. Cotton upholstery and cream wools mainly. Given up telling him that a 100psi pump upgrade in a 1x2 stage motor machine running double clean on every job is asking for trouble.
His view is that its only about 5% of the time he has a problem.
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I have been told that Jim has browned a couple of carpets in the past when he has had a few ;D
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Browned a few other things too but that's a different story ;)