Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: richywilts on January 23, 2012, 10:46:07 pm

Title: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: richywilts on January 23, 2012, 10:46:07 pm
righ one of the lads resigned today coz es got a cash in hand job window cleaning trad to go to so got my girlfriends nephew after bit of part time work coz e goes college part time two days a week, was looking at doing leafletting for me but got me tinking is there any sort of modern apprenticeship i can offer for cleaning services so it means more too him to have something to fall back on

this is just an idea before anyone starts
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: H S and Son on January 23, 2012, 10:47:36 pm
this is just an idea before anyone starts


 ;D
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: CLEANCARE WC on January 23, 2012, 10:51:17 pm
righ one of the lads resigned today coz es got a cash in hand job window cleaning trad to go to so got my girlfriends nephew after bit of part time work coz e goes college part time two days a week, was looking at doing leafletting for me but got me tinking is there any sort of modern apprenticeship i can offer for cleaning services so it means more too him to have something to fall back on

this is just an idea before anyone starts

Richy this is one of your better ideas mate the Government will give you £2.60  towards his wage and you match that. Is that what you heard too?
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: richywilts on January 23, 2012, 11:03:03 pm
hes keen too work and i was thinkin 30quid a day cash in and leaflet dropping but he is doing plumbing at college which is ok but hundreds of kids do it and places are hard to come by he got into a fracas at xmas where a lad got stabbed in the neck he didnt do it but he on a tag type bail 10-7 looking to turn a new leaf

id like to sow him theres more to it than cleaning windows and get some cheap labour and qualofications behind him ipaf etc
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: jouk45 on January 23, 2012, 11:31:25 pm
yes, started this young lad 20years old, he is brilliant, got the drft right from the start, a real natural right from the start, and he is very keen, already my profits have soared  ;D
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: P @ F on January 23, 2012, 11:34:00 pm
Richy , every time i read your latest post i grin a bit more , i dont understand it mate , you say your facing finance meltdown , that home life aint so good , you had a pants last 12 months , your gonna borrow , and then i see your lookin at building a new round to add to your worries , and to top it your lookin to employ shall we say , a bit of a lad .
Dont get me wrong , i have had a bit of a shadey past , but i turned things around , got my biz up and running and have made a good go of it , i have recently been in the dumps as you have , i went back to basics , small round at a better price ,

I have checked out your site , seen your vans , its all very admirable my friend , now get a grip and hold on to 1 van and 1 worker , pick the best of your work , ditch the unit , keep your missus and children , admit defeat for now , give it 12 months , then attack again if you see fit .

All the above i have just done on not such a big scale , i feel better already , i still got the debt , but they cant take what i aint got mate .

Regards Rich  
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: richywilts on January 23, 2012, 11:56:41 pm
richy im confiedent i can rebuild the work up to where it was with better quality work this is a cheap alternative to employing whilst also giving back to community and doing my bit .

its an idea like i did highlight in the post

if i cud have two lads cleaning 350-400 a day and only paying 90quid tats good business sense and if it was a success and i employed another apprentice to go out with me ya getting 700 a day cleaned and only paying out 120-130 a day in wages for window cleaning
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: mikecam on January 24, 2012, 12:10:24 am
richy im confiedent i can rebuild the work up to where it was with better quality work this is a cheap alternative to employing whilst also giving back to community and doing my bit .

its an idea like i did highlight in the post

if i cud have two lads cleaning 350-400 a day and only paying 90quid tats good business sense and if it was a success and i employed another apprentice to go out with me ya getting 700 a day cleaned and only paying out 120-130 a day in wages for window cleaning

Good luck finding two lads to clean 350-400 a day for 450 a week between them !!   ;D
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: P @ F on January 24, 2012, 12:16:33 am
Richy , i admire your willpower , it all looks great on paper , you know you can do it , you have before , now stop gluggin the beer and using txt speak !
I for one want to see you win this , keep us updated , but dont let it run your life mate .

Regards Rich  
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: GDwindowcleaning on January 24, 2012, 12:34:13 am
I dont normally comment on richy but by god you dont half bounce from idea to idea, one day you moaning at everyone having a go then the next you coming back with this hair brain scheme that in your head will make you rich. You really think two young lads given a free run in a van are going to hit those figures? Dream land. The only way in my opinion is to pay fair wages to guys who are recruited properly and trained to work your way. You want people working for you who are honest and have responsibilities not a college kid who was involved in a stabbing a few weeks ago! The bit where you said its just cheap labour sums it all up.... Cheap labour is a false economy as they leave to go cash in hand up ladders....

Set your sights higher with the people around you....
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: tom cronin on January 24, 2012, 07:36:59 am
I dont normally comment on richy but by god you dont half bounce from idea to idea, one day you moaning at everyone having a go then the next you coming back with this hair brain scheme that in your head will make you rich. You really think two young lads given a free run in a van are going to hit those figures? Dream land. The only way in my opinion is to pay fair wages to guys who are recruited properly and trained to work your way. You want people working for you who are honest and have responsibilities not a college kid who was involved in a stabbing a few weeks ago! The bit where you said its just cheap labour sums it all up.... Cheap labour is a false economy as they leave to go cash in hand up ladders....

Set your sights higher with the people around you....


I had a couple young lads in for awhile, they were ok when they weren't together, but a proper nightmare together. What finally did it for me was when I went collecting on a saturday morning, and a couple of customers said " you're lad came round half hour ago to collect......." I acted ignorant, then the next Friday when he asked for his wages told him to f*** himself...the 28 quid he nicked cost him 200 in the end, the lad still hasn't found another job and that was 2 years ago.
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: Dave Willis on January 24, 2012, 07:48:29 am
I would put an apprentice in the office too  ::)
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: H S and Son on January 24, 2012, 07:49:17 am
 ;D
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: sam125 on January 24, 2012, 08:45:17 am
Just stop thinking for your own sake mate, you are ridiculous sounds like you have had a touch him resigning one less person to get work for.
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: Halfadaylee on January 24, 2012, 08:57:59 am
So one guy leaves who is skilled? and then you consider you girl friends relative?
Is that because she made or nagged you or because he is the right candidate to move your business forward.
You kill me man.
Art
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: a900 on January 24, 2012, 09:16:32 am
How long would a window cleaning apprenticeship last. 2 weeks?
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: Jackal on January 24, 2012, 09:32:35 am
i think for now richy its the best think thats happened to you in a while this bloke leaving ,at least you dont have to pay him and you can now take a wage for a change,get all you sh*t sorted out first before you start taking more workers on
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: William McCafferty on January 24, 2012, 10:02:40 am
Richy

Have you done a business plan? if so, what is the botton line?

What I am trying to so is get you figures sorted out before you start to employ, start from the botton line and then add alll the costs of running a business.

Apart from vechicle costs , employing is going to be the biggest expense, do not skimp on this, if ok employing dum dums to dig holes in the ground, but not to let loose with your business, and when they clean your customers windows they are intereacting with them, so if they do a bad job it will relex back onto you, likewise if the are really good at the job this will also reflex on you and your business.

A good member of staff is worth their weight in gold, do not try to save money on wages because a good member will earn you more than you can possible save.

Now back to your original question, apprentiships are a good way of moving forward, if you get the right one, you can mould and build him up to be the best cleaner you need, but remember they are not stupid, and if you take the mick they will pay you back in the future.

I have had gone down this route in the past and he are a few tips.

Make sure they have a driving licence, even though you only have to pay £2.60 per hour for the 1st year, I would not do this, start them off on the £2.60 but increase their hourly rate by 50p every 3 months, doing this the apprentice will become more happy with working for you and at the end of the 12 months you have to pay the minimum wage, so you will have a big hike in you wage bill if you don't.

Also pay out a bonus, say every 3 months.

In april the goverment are bringing out a scheme that if you take someone off the dole, who has been signing on for 6 months, they will give you I think £2750, but this is limited to the first 100000 applicants.

and finally, the figures you are using on what they can earn you a day, imo they are a little high, personally I work on the following figures

Domestic only

1 man with van £200 per day
2 men with 1 van £300 per day

with commercial, you should command more, now you might find these figures too low but if you employed a full time cleaner and paid him £10 per hour with bonuses, your gross profit on £1000 per week would work out at around £380, but this depends on your spending habits ie advertising,equipment etc
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: colin purewater on January 24, 2012, 10:34:34 am
Not a bad idea rich, even if you have him with you
Droppin leaflets were you are working it will
Only cost you a couple of £ an hour,

I think people for get this is a forum for advice a and bouceing
Ideas about not a kangaroo court
Title: Re: Div of the day award goes to ......
Post by: CLEANCARE WC on January 24, 2012, 10:51:09 am
Jouk soured or soared? Lol
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: richywilts on January 24, 2012, 04:22:22 pm
for everyone geggin in i said in first post it was an idea for christs sake

im having a load of leaflets knocked up n i was planning on paying him 20-30 quid a day 3 days a week

hes in college two days a week

if he was willing to learn a skill and be prepared to work for these wages and worked hard under my main operators supervision then what have i too lose.

andy wouldnt except him messing round as he likes to do a proper days graft.

if you look into apprenticeships there training is funded so saves coming out my money so ipaf,cscs and so on would be paid for

hes learning two different skills in plumbing and window cleaning and im getting cheap labour 3 days a week which would free up my time a little to work on other stuff if it suits

Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: William McCafferty on January 24, 2012, 05:08:12 pm
how old is he?
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: William McCafferty on January 24, 2012, 05:23:08 pm
for everyone geggin in i said in first post it was an idea for christs sake

im having a load of leaflets knocked up n i was planning on paying him 20-30 quid a day 3 days a week

hes in college two days a week

if he was willing to learn a skill and be prepared to work for these wages and worked hard under my main operators supervision then what have i too lose.

andy wouldnt except him messing round as he likes to do a proper days graft.

if you look into apprenticeships there training is funded so saves coming out my money so ipaf,cscs and so on would be paid for

hes learning two different skills in plumbing and window cleaning and im getting cheap labour 3 days a week which would free up my time a little to work on other stuff if it suits



Richy

I think you need to do some more reading, because what you are reading is wrong, for a start with have the Minimum Wage

Current NMW rates

There are different levels of NMW, depending on your age and whether you are an apprentice. The current rates (from 1 October 2011) are:
•£6.08 - the main rate for workers aged 21 and over
•£4.98 - the 18-20 rate
•£3.68 - the 16-17 rate for workers above school leaving age but under 18
•£2.60 - the apprentice rate, for apprentices under 19 or 19 or over and in the first year of their apprenticeship

Then we have the Minimum Holiday entitlements.

There is a minimum right to paid holiday, but your employer may offer more than this. The main things you should know about holiday rights are that:

•you are entitled to a minimum of 5.6 weeks paid annual leave - 28 days for someone working five days a week (capped at a statutory maximum of 28 days for all working patterns)
•part-time workers are entitled to the same level of holiday pro rata (so 5.6 times your usual working week, eg 22.4 days for someone working four days a week)

•you start building up holiday as soon as you start work
•your employer can control when you take your holiday
•you get paid your normal pay for your holiday
•when you finish a job, you get paid for any holiday you have not taken
•bank and public holidays can be included in your minimum entitlement
•you continue to be entitled to your holiday leave throughout your ordinary and additional maternity leave and paternity and adoption leave

Next is the training, it is free for apprentices who are age 16 to 19 and NOT already at collage, over this age and the employer has to pay half, you will normally find that the traing consists of basic maths and english is they haven't reached the levels nessasary when they left school, and most collages only offer the cleaning course, which give the basic requirements on cleaning windows and H&S they are shown how to use a mop and squeegie, but they are NOT trained in Ipaf or any other mechanical lifting device.

You and your apprentice have to go though an interview, on yours you need to show your employers and PPL insurance, also copys of your H&S policy.

There are laws which you need to abide by
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: wfp master on January 24, 2012, 05:34:07 pm
never seen an apprentice w/c do they get day release from college 1 or 2 days a week & what do they do to get a apprentticeship what course do they do to become a time served w/c.
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: William McCafferty on January 24, 2012, 05:39:07 pm
never seen an apprentice w/c do they get day release from college 1 or 2 days a week & what do they do to get a apprentticeship what course do they do to become a time served w/c.

strange as it sounds, but yes there are apprentiship courses, these are normally tagged onto general cleaning and incorporate window cleaning.

They do go to collage and they are also accessed in the field (so hi viz is a must) by the collage as well.

I think that richy is looking for a shortcut around this though.
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: richard jagger on January 24, 2012, 05:47:42 pm
Pure Hydro.
How  can you ask if Richie has a business plan and I quote "if i cud have two lads cleaning 350-400 a day and only paying 90quid tats good business sense and if it was a success and i employed another apprentice to go out with me ya getting 700 a day cleaned and only paying out 120-130 a day in wages for window cleaning"
Is this not a business plan I though it was quite elaborate plan. ??? ::) ::)


Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: wfp master on January 24, 2012, 05:48:01 pm
must be a very short course its not rocket science. ;D
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: William McCafferty on January 24, 2012, 06:02:21 pm
Pure Hydro.
How  can you ask if Richie has a business plan and I quote "if i cud have two lads cleaning 350-400 a day and only paying 90quid tats good business sense and if it was a success and i employed another apprentice to go out with me ya getting 700 a day cleaned and only paying out 120-130 a day in wages for window cleaning"
Is this not a business plan I though it was quite elaborate plan. ??? ::) ::)




I stand corrected, I wish I went to business school though :P
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: richywilts on January 24, 2012, 06:04:48 pm
I'm not looking deep into it just a thought the other night n thought I'd post on here c if anyone has an experience to share I've only briefly googled it.

I just thought it may make job more structured and secure if he was to get more from it that a bit of cash in hand sort of basis
Title: Re: Div of the day award goes to ......
Post by: jouk45 on January 24, 2012, 06:11:55 pm
Jouk soured or soared? Lol
soared, i did that on purpose to see if you would notice  ::)
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: Danny Guest on January 24, 2012, 06:44:43 pm
I'm not looking deep into it just a thought the other night n thought I'd post on here c if anyone has an experience to share I've only briefly googled it.

I just thought it may make job more structured and secure if he was to get more from it that a bit of cash in hand sort of basis
Richy

I applied for an apprentice and was refused. The reason was that they could not find a college course relevant to window cleaning. It was in October 2011 and i havent applied since so let me know if you have any success.

Danny
Title: Re: anyone ave any younglads on apprenticeships
Post by: William McCafferty on January 24, 2012, 06:50:37 pm
Richy

If I was you I would take some time to think how you are going to move forward, don't rush from one scheme to another, you will fail.

Look at your business and how it stands, do you only clean windows, if so, diversify.

Learn how to clean gutters and carpet cleaning, your already have the customers all you need to do is market the new services to them.

Look at your customers and cull it down a bit, get rid of the under quoted or pain in the arse ones, if you sell these on it will bring in some cash to re-invest in the business.

Up your prices on new work, if they agree then you are earning more without working harder, if they don't then you haven't lost anything.

When you have had a long think on which way you want to go, then take it slowly, don't rush.