Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Lee Burbidge on January 18, 2012, 05:24:56 pm

Title: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: Lee Burbidge on January 18, 2012, 05:24:56 pm
Has any one considered buying a window cleaning franchise?

What benefits does a franchise really offer?
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: GDwindowcleaning on January 18, 2012, 05:30:21 pm
If its the right one then guaranteed work plus all the support you need but some I have seen offer nothing more than a system and use of the name....
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: Pope vader on January 18, 2012, 05:42:17 pm
the only way it would work is if it come with x amount of commercial work per month,  other wise its just  a name, that most people havent heard of
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: GDwindowcleaning on January 18, 2012, 05:44:44 pm
Would it not work if came with guaranteed domestic work? Although we are not a franchises target market to be fair....
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: taylored on January 18, 2012, 06:17:41 pm
yes i would of had an ian lacaster type one when i started, with work and all the help to start bringing in money from day 1 and i would sill be happy to pay 20% on going fee. i have been looking in to setting up this type of one. works for both sides, if you could get working from day 1 and set your own target income for a price would you do all the hard work again?
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: Sean Dyer on January 18, 2012, 06:22:38 pm
Buy a round and canvass and keep 20% ??

one days work a week for someone else , before tax and expenses

madness
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: Window Washers on January 18, 2012, 06:24:55 pm
Buy a round and canvass and keep 20% ??

one days work a week for someone else , before tax and expenses

madness
depends on how much that work is priced at Sean, it could be twice the price you work for , that would make you mad for doing low priced work 5 days a week. Hope you see the point I am making,
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: taylored on January 18, 2012, 06:34:53 pm
no canvassing just doing the work as it came in not even priceing up or getting calls, just cleaning. and getting your full set up fee back in first year  ;)
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: rg1 on January 18, 2012, 06:35:30 pm
Would it not work if came with guaranteed domestic work? Although we are not a franchises target market to be fair....

There is no such thing as 'Guaranteed domestic work' They could all cancel the following month and you would be left with nothing!
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: taylored on January 18, 2012, 06:37:48 pm
people only all cancel if you can not clean windows ;D
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: Window Washers on January 18, 2012, 06:40:35 pm
people only all cancel if you can not clean windows ;D
not always i have seen some shocking window cleaners and they have regular work
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: GDwindowcleaning on January 18, 2012, 06:41:18 pm
And it could be guaranteed if done right, they would only have to guarantee turnover not the actual job, so if one drops off then its replaced. Thats guaranteed...
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: Sean Dyer on January 18, 2012, 06:54:48 pm
Buy a round and canvass and keep 20% ??

one days work a week for someone else , before tax and expenses

madness
depends on how much that work is priced at Sean, it could be twice the price you work for , that would make you mad for doing low priced work 5 days a week. Hope you see the point I am making,

If i did the work 20 % cheaper than him im still even and no stress making a franchise fee when im ill, snowed in , can be assed

Plus most guys learn how to price

And franchises 99%of the time you build the business yourself

Why have you got to pay someone to tell you to price higher
, any post on here, business book or ounce of common sense tells you "price higher" i dont need to give someone 20% of my wage for that

Ps i understand why people set it up etc im just seeing it from my view , i have nothing against franshises/ees

But i think its a bit over complicating things for domestic window cleaning, but each to there own

:)
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: Lee Burbidge on January 18, 2012, 06:55:55 pm
the only way it would work is if it come with x amount of commercial work per month,  other wise its just  a name, that most people havent heard of

Yeah the guys in the US where I have opened up a simular topic but based on their biggest franchise company FiSH, said the same. If it came with a customer base it might be a viable option. Still I think they have to pay 200 dollars per month for the franchise back office.
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: Lee Burbidge on January 18, 2012, 07:00:16 pm
Buy a round and canvass and keep 20% ??

one days work a week for someone else , before tax and expenses

madness

I agree. But those that buy a franchise buy an established brand and proven business model. Im not too sure if they guarantee a percentage of the money, like factoring wether all the money has been collected or not. That would make a differnce I guess, but still you are having to pay for it.

Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: Lee Burbidge on January 18, 2012, 07:01:21 pm
no canvassing just doing the work as it came in not even priceing up or getting calls, just cleaning. and getting your full set up fee back in first year  ;)

Have you done a franchise?
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: GDwindowcleaning on January 18, 2012, 07:04:29 pm
The trouble with discussing this with established window cleaners is they already know so a franchise is not aimed at them. Its aimed at people new to the industry. Alot of people would pay 20k for a franchise that earned them 40k a year....
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: rg1 on January 18, 2012, 07:05:00 pm
people only all cancel if you can not clean windows ;D

Or if they have been pressured into signing up for window cleaning
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: Lee Burbidge on January 18, 2012, 07:06:04 pm
The trouble with discussing this with established window cleaners is they already know so a franchise is not aimed at them. Its aimed at people new to the industry. Alot of people would pay 20k for a franchise that earned them 40k a year....

That is a good point.
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: taylored on January 18, 2012, 07:07:50 pm
sean 20% of work you have cleaned. if you dont work thats 20% of £0 ;)  if you where just looking to start up and got offered £35000 min turnover in first year for £10000 with all tools and everythink you need plus all the help you need would you look in to it?
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: Window Washers on January 18, 2012, 07:08:50 pm
sean 20% of work you have cleaned. if you dont work thats 20% of £0 ;)  if you where just looking to start up and got offered £35000 min turnover in first year for £10000 with all tools and everythink you need plus all the help you need would you look in to it?
I would snap there arm off
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: GDwindowcleaning on January 18, 2012, 07:10:45 pm
The turnover would need be guaranteed not each job....

Look into the franchise market, you can pay mega money
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: taylored on January 18, 2012, 07:13:54 pm
i would of too washer ;) lee i have been working on it for a long time, its the paper work thats the hard part  ???
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: Lee Burbidge on January 18, 2012, 07:21:38 pm
i would of too washer ;) lee i have been working on it for a long time, its the paper work thats the hard part  ???

Yo mean you have a franchise?
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: GDwindowcleaning on January 18, 2012, 07:22:30 pm
I know the guy that runs the local Dublcheck franchise, you buy turnover from the company so if you want to earn more with no sales you just bung them some money and the sales machine kicks in. They been established years so something similar could easily be done with window cleaning....
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: taylored on January 18, 2012, 07:29:21 pm
no lee am looking to start selling them. set your own income style, all work and tools full set up pack use your own van.
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: Lee Burbidge on January 18, 2012, 08:39:24 pm
no lee am looking to start selling them. set your own income style, all work and tools full set up pack use your own van.

Very interesting. How much research have you done thus far?
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: taylored on January 18, 2012, 08:58:30 pm
alot lee ;) got the plan all done and costs, its the agreement thats the hard bit for me. yes before someone says it see a solicitor but they cant do your agreement, if your still working out how you will do it ??? its wording the little bits they can do so it stands up in court if it all go's t!ts up.
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: bobplum on January 18, 2012, 09:01:57 pm
Richard speech of isparkle,who comes on here as one put out a shout for him

bob
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: Window Washers on January 18, 2012, 09:38:35 pm
alot lee ;) got the plan all done and costs, its the agreement thats the hard bit for me. yes before someone says it see a solicitor but they cant do your agreement, if your still working out how you will do it ??? its wording the little bits they can do so it stands up in court if it all go's t!ts up.
the costs to do this correctly are about 100k, I have had meetings with national companies in respect of this very thing  ;)
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: davids3511 on January 18, 2012, 10:11:28 pm
My 1st franchisee starts 1st feb. He is in a job at the moment where he takes home 350 for a 60 hour week. For everyone who says they can't see the point of buying a franchise, this guy is the example. He would never have the time or resources to canvass up a full round which he would need as he has bills to pay. By going with me he will have 2k monthly work from day 1, increasing to 2.5k within 6 months and 3k within 1 year.

Students go to uni and build up 40k debt to earn less that this.
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: Sean Dyer on January 18, 2012, 10:32:03 pm
sean 20% of work you have cleaned. if you dont work thats 20% of £0 ;)  if you where just looking to start up and got offered £35000 min turnover in first year for £10000 with all tools and everythink you need plus all the help you need would you look in to it?

I dont think a franchise company is gonna be happy with you doing £0

usually theres a minimum fee  PLus for 20k franchise fee you could buy an awesome round

I still think its bonkers

In this industry there really is no point

Some are arguing you are buying a Proven system ?? Get customer , clean customer collect money from customer , repeat

Its hardly mcdonalds, kfc , or any of the other huge franchises where there are hundreds of systems etc are needed , and branding is huge, and hundreds of millions of pounds of investment and proof of huge profits.

What national domestic window cleaning brands are household names??
Fish in usa is , that i can understand

but in the uk where window cleaning work is so easy to do and find , its money thrown away .. for so much less and some hard work you can earn the same with no one on your back , the whole point of this job is the freedom and flexibility  , not a franchisor saying why havent you hit 60 k a year
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: Sean Dyer on January 18, 2012, 10:33:49 pm
Also if your so confident in your system why are you giving them all the work

No other franchise hands over the custys to start , thats selling a round and then renting it back

A bloody good money spinner but a good deal for punter ?

I dont think so
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: GDwindowcleaning on January 18, 2012, 10:42:08 pm
But Sean that is just your opinion, franchises are not just the big boys ie mcdonalds etc there are franchises in all walks of life and not everyone agrees with them but they are the right way to go for some people.

You say you could buy a round but that has its pitfalls, to buy 4k a month will cost 12k at the very least, often more and there are no guarantees that come with buying work(i have heard some horror stories) with a franchise you are buying security, you also dont have to learn from your own mistakes.

I am not saying I would ever buy a franchise but for some people it is 100% the right thing to do....
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: taylored on January 18, 2012, 10:45:29 pm
david did you do your own agreement? how long did it take you to put all the bits together? well done for getting this far hope it all go well for you.
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: Sean Dyer on January 18, 2012, 10:51:14 pm
Hey i know there are people who do it and it works.

I never wrote franchises off there is a small place for them for a few people , im just putting in my opinion as you said , so that people dont read and think oh brilliant for most of my life savings and 20% of all future income i can have a window cleaning round

When most of us on here know how simple it can be to set up and do

Ive even read up on setting up a franchise myself to see what it would entail , i just dont think its a good deal , and if you have to build there round for them  i think its even more pointless

But good luck to anyone who tries it , ive read all ian lancasters posts in the past and i know he makes a good living for himself and his workers and i have spoken to a few more on here who have tried to do the same and wish them all the best

But i think its a bit much for domestic window cleaning, the branding isnt there, and the job is to simple to need someone elses "guide" , its all on here and google in some form or another, just because you have paid for your franchise it doesnt make you outshine all the window cleaners in your area  , you are as good as you want to be , franchisee or not
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: taylored on January 18, 2012, 10:54:10 pm
its not just buying a round, its getting it all done for you at a price you see before you start. all the work priced up and booked in for you at a speed you set. as for not working everyone gets sick and things happen in life when you need time off.
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: taylored on January 18, 2012, 11:10:15 pm
sean yes window cleaner know how to do it all, but if you were just thinking of setting and had to do it all again would you not do alot of things the way you know now or would you make the same mistakes we all made,underpriceing,starting trad,having to work one day and back out to get more the next. i would of loved to just been out cleaning from day 1 till i had to say thats all the work i can do now, no more thanks.
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: GDwindowcleaning on January 18, 2012, 11:48:49 pm
I have seen posts from people on here who have been going for years and they still have questions, i have seen posts from new guys and the posts mocking them from people who are set up already.

There is place for franchises in this industry....
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: mikecam on January 19, 2012, 12:35:13 am
alot lee ;) got the plan all done and costs, its the agreement thats the hard bit for me. yes before someone says it see a solicitor but they cant do your agreement, if your still working out how you will do it ??? its wording the little bits they can do so it stands up in court if it all go's t!ts up.
the costs to do this correctly are about 100k, I have had meetings with national companies in respect of this very thing  ;)

I'm puzzled by your reply here, two reasons. Are you really telling him the costs for a legal agreement are about 100k ?  And, i'm guessing you are as you said it !!! What National Companies did you have meetings with in respect of drawing up a 'relativley' simple franchisee agreement, and did they laugh when you spoke?
Title: Re: Big FISH big pond.......
Post by: Londoner on January 19, 2012, 07:56:02 am
The several  Franchise vans we have had round here lasted about six months each on average. I think that says it all.

Oven cleaners are the same, the oven cleaner I was chatting to before Christmas said he was the last one left of seven franchisees, but he was doing Ok because he was still getting passed any enquiries from the ones who had folded but as the yellow pages get replaced all that will die off.

Ian's way of doing it works and works well but he's a one off. Mainly because he knows his business and he's in it for the long haul.
My impression of most of the franchise deals that have been pushed at franchise shows and in the magazines was that they were just fast buck swindles by fly by night cowboys trying to flog them. They had no real credentials in the business they were just looking for any old business idea to franchise and window cleaning struck them as an easy option

Thats the basis of my cynicism. If the deal is good and fair to both sides then I am all for it.