Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: tony atkinson on December 26, 2011, 03:53:11 pm
-
had breakfast at mi mates and wen i looked out the window seen one of my vans parked up no ladders on and could not see any1 so i went for awalk in the erea and there he was new lad traddin away on a block of terriced houses 8 in a row so i went back mi mates and waited to he was putttin ladders on van then i pounced on him he was shocked to see me i sed wats goin on he sed they were 1offs i sed wat 8 in a row he had no replie so i took the keys off him he has no lic to drive told him 2 cum and see me later in his pockets was £78 in cash so looks like he has done afew jobs today i will be keepin the cash for usein my gear and van also i will be addin the work 2my buisness he is now down the rd lost agood job £250 aweek plus bonuses silly boy he rang me told him not bother cumin seein me .
-
Gotta admire the lad's enterprise lol!!!!!
-
He might have been using your kit, which is wrong, but that doesn't make the money yours to take; particularly if you've sacked him as a result of it. If I was him you'd be getting a 'problem' you could do without.
-
ha the lads boomin but its a bit cheeky my other lads tell me and add it to the round an i giv them a bonus evry time the work they pik up is cleaned ie a couple of pond on each job if its a big 1 they get more it all adds up on the set wage but you always get 1 with is own rules he a goner god knows how much more work he has got good look 2him but with no drivein lic he will not get far.......
-
Tony i sympathise with you! I know what i would have done, same as you and a good slap too! I found out one of my workers had done a single flat extra on a round and was trying to keep it quiet, he told the other lad working with him not to say, but he felt so guilty and told me! I must add the first lad had it docked from wages and hence got no bonus and the boot!
>:( >:(
-
not at all there will be no problems at the end of the day he is robbin my buisness usein my company to trade also usein my insurance and my gear if he was out there with just a ladder and bucket he would of never picked the work up he has got these houses through my hard work of building up my buisness and image evry 1 to there own but i will not be taken for a ride ....
-
At £250 a week I'm not suprised he was doing extra work.
If you paid better rates you might get better behaved staff.
-
well i am sorry to say i would have you court asap for stealing money of me,that money is not yours to take and i wouldn't blame him if he took you to the police or a industrial tribunal .
you should have taken say 20% for use of your tools
-
Seriously annoying but probably better to have him working for you rather than competition,
was he a good worker with good timekeeping ect ?,if he was then hard to find and keep .
And its Christmas - if he was okay before that give im a good slap and another chance .
-
why did you take his work, what right do you have to do it form now on, what is to stop him just taking all your other custy just by turning up and saying going out on my own do you want to come with me, as i guess he know your prices and custys
-
if he hasnt got a license, why has he got a van and keys
-
Tony,
Similar happened to me around 3 years ago with a couple of guys who worked for me, but it had been going on for a while, I eventually found out when a customer phoned me to say we'd left a bucket in their garden, but they weren't even on our list of customers. They were earning £400+ every week with their bonuses but it obviously still wasn't enough for them.
You've done right, if he has been trading in your van and people think they are dealing with your company, then the money he has made is yours (possibly less his share for doing the work!) Let him come to you for it then tell him you're contacting the police about him defrauding the company.
Things to do to prevent it happening again are:
- Keep the vans at a central workshop every night, don't allow them to take them home
- Move the teams around every month so that they do not have the same rounds every time
- Make sure you balance the sheets with the money at the end of every day
- Encourage people to pay by cheque or on line (take cash out of the equation)
- Send a letter out to all those people saying what has happened (I can send you a copy of the letter we sent out, it implies everything but says nothing libelous)
You've done the right thing, the two guys who worked for us said they were going to set up on their own and "take over all our business". In the end they actually took only about 20 customers, mainly the elderly ones and I know they are making next to nothing. ;D
If you are going down the route of sacking this lad make sure everything for his dismissal is written down, give him the chance to put his side across before you wield the axe. If you decide to give him another chance then make sure measures are put in place to stop it happening again
-
had the same problem with my brother in law 2 years ago,we live in a small town,most work is in bigger town. he still hangs his head to me every time we meet.still think he is something that you would get from a thorn
-
He took the van from the other lad he works with hes only worked for me for 1month he went round this morning and got it of him he told him i seid he could borrow it today only just got intouch with him he dident know anythin about him doing the work at the end of the day he is in the wrong i am a fair with the lads in my eyes he is takein the p.
-
lucky he didnt have a crash then, no insurance
-
He took the van from the other lad he works with hes only worked for me for 1month he went round this morning and got it of him he told him i seid he could borrow it today only just got intouch with him he dident know anythin about him doing the work at the end of the day he is in the wrong i am a fair with the lads in my eyes he is takein the p.
You are certainly within your rights to sack him. IMO the money is less clear cut and I suppose he ought to have some of it at his hourly rate minus any expenditure he incurred for you in doing the work.
Obviously, from here, it's impossible to say but I do wonder if you may have potentially lost a good employee. The ones who get caught can often end up the most loyal and grateful. You know the guy. I don't. So that may be way off the mark.
-
Thanks for the tips i do rotate there work and send them on diffrent rounds most of my work is all payed in bank only have 1round wich is cash as i use it for the lads if they need anythin he was a good lad and worker but the way he went about it was wrong all my lads have been with me for 6years and i have never had owt like it. Sunshine cleaning they get £250 a week even if it rains and they do halfday they also get job and knock on all my work they get bonus aswell for the work that comes in also i give them weekends aswell in the summer the are clearing £400+ to me that is good going
-
totally understand you doing what you did,but if that was me
you wouldnt of got the money out of my clammy hands ;D
-
hi tony, if he used your van without permission then !
if i gave my van for work i would have atracker fitted
will tell u online where it is, time, speeds etc
-
Hmmm. If I were in your situation, I think I would do this: If he were using your van and equipment without your permission, I would certainly give him his marching orders then and there. I would, however, let him keep the money he 'earned', and the houses he was caught cleaning at the time, if he picked them up of his own accord, and were not part of your round. He will need to find work, so why not let him have them, and maybe this will limit the damage he has done. I would also let my customers know that he no longer works for you, just in case he turns up and tries to nick your known customers!
John
-
hes window through crimbo becos hes skint. tony get a grip
-
At £250 a week I'm not suprised he was doing extra work.
If you paid better rates you might get better behaved staff.
£250 a week is enough for a window cleaner you employ in my opinion. an employee should not have the cheek to even use the van for personal use, not to mention run his own business running your own rep and image.
to take the money off him was right in my opinion too, he is on a set wage and if he wanted to work from your van on boxing day technically he is still working for you.
when you say no driving lic do you mean no licence, if so why are yu letting him drive
-
This is standard routine stuff with staff, they always do it. You have to be nieve to believe otherwise.
This is why people who think they are are going to employ a few blokes and make their fortune need to get a reality check. There is nothing new or particularly suprising about this story. The only ones who keep their staff in check are the ones who will break their arms and legs with baseball bats if they find out.
Staff always take the p. Call my cynical
-
I agree Vince. That is why nowadays I always work solo.
John
-
At £250 a week I'm not suprised he was doing extra work.
If you paid better rates you might get better behaved staff.
£250 a week is enough for a window cleaner you employ in my opinion. an employee should not have the cheek to even use the van for personal use, not to mention run his own business running your own rep and image.
to take the money off him was right in my opinion too, he is on a set wage and if he wanted to work from your van on boxing day technically he is still working for you.
when you say no driving lic do you mean no licence, if so why are yu letting him drive
£250 p.w.?
If the week is 40 hours that's £6.25 p.h.. That's only a tiny bit above minimum wage. If bonuses are OK then that's probably acceptable as it would be a good idea to keep outgoings low during non work periods such as a freeze up. Without the bonuses though it would be rubbish.
-
Doesn't matter what you pay him he agreed the wage, theft is theft that is what he has done
The money is youts,It is Obtaining money by deception, dishonesty, theft.
It's your van, your tools, your trading name
-
Tony,
Similar happened to me around 3 years ago with a couple of guys who worked for me, but it had been going on for a while, I eventually found out when a customer phoned me to say we'd left a bucket in their garden, but they weren't even on our list of customers. They were earning £400+ every week with their bonuses but it obviously still wasn't enough for them.
You've done right, if he has been trading in your van and people think they are dealing with your company, then the money he has made is yours (possibly less his share for doing the work!) Let him come to you for it then tell him you're contacting the police about him defrauding the company.
Things to do to prevent it happening again are:
- Keep the vans at a central workshop every night, don't allow them to take them home
- Move the teams around every month so that they do not have the same rounds every time
- Make sure you balance the sheets with the money at the end of every day
- Encourage people to pay by cheque or on line (take cash out of the equation)
- Send a letter out to all those people saying what has happened (I can send you a copy of the letter we sent out, it implies everything but says nothing libelous)
You've done the right thing, the two guys who worked for us said they were going to set up on their own and "take over all our business". In the end they actually took only about 20 customers, mainly the elderly ones and I know they are making next to nothing. ;D
If you are going down the route of sacking this lad make sure everything for his dismissal is written down, give him the chance to put his side across before you wield the axe. If you decide to give him another chance then make sure measures are put in place to stop it happening again
This is standard routine stuff with staff, they always do it. You have to be nieve to believe otherwise.
This is why people who think they are are going to employ a few blokes and make their fortune need to get a reality check. There is nothing new or particularly suprising about this story. The only ones who keep their staff in check are the ones who will break their arms and legs with baseball bats if they find out.
Tony
Ian and Vince have hit the nail on the head. Do you have an employment contract? with a restrictive part highlighting that no working using your equipment etc. I would have dismissed him as you did, but legally I was told by a solicitor that you only have the right to deducted stamp and tax from someone's wage.
Learn from it and tighten the gaps using Ian's suggestions, and contract of employment and if they come back saying the customer did not want it this time. Have a pre printed slip that the customer fills in with the reason there tel number and signature.
Roy
-
i understand that dave, but how do you know they came to this bloke becasue of his bosses reputation and he didnt just knock for them, as think this could get nasty depending on which way the bloke goes, he could claim that he got sacked for starting his own business and then had all the work stolen off him, by his exboss who threatened him to give him the work, whats to stop him going back to them 8 custy and all the other custy and saying am starting on my own do you want to come with me, like they say you dont own custys
what if he takes it to a tribunal for unfair dismissle, he might not win, but could be a pain in the arse for him for a few months, plus costs him a lot more money in solicitor fees
-
whats to stop him going back to them 8 custy and all the other custy and saying am starting on my own do you want to come with me, like they say you dont own custys
This also is a pretty regular occourance. How many times must it have happened? The staff simply hijack the round and cut out the middle man. Very easy for them to do it, they are the ones with face to face contact. You are so very right when you say you don't own the customers.
Never let your staff read Animal Farm!
Thats why I have said in the past when you take on a member of staff you are taking on a potential rival. (at best) a snake in the grass (at worst)
-
It's called ambition - as long as he wasn't tapping up your customers I can't see the problem ?? Have you got custys on the rest of the street he was working? If hes gone out and got them on his own From canvassing whats the problem? It's in his own time and he had the good grace to park the van out the way on a different street - was he wearing your uniform at the time? If not then the only thing you can moan about is using your equipment and i reckon for a small fee that would be an acceptable payment
I say hats off to him for trying to better himself
In future make sure that anyone who picks up new work is well rewarded :) :)
-
[/quote]
Never let your staff read Animal Farm!
[/quote]
superb book, Ragged Trouser is still my Favourite though
-
well i am sorry to say i would have you court asap for stealing money of me,that money is not yours to take and i wouldn't blame him if he took you to the police or a industrial tribunal .
you should have taken say 20% for use of your tools
HAHAHAHA ;D ;D I dont think you would do well doing that..... "See you in court for taking money off me, that i was working cash in hand for" hahahaha smart one ;D
-
what i did was to rent a round of a windy the work had not been done for 6 months i cleaned it,went back to the bloke who we were renting from and said you only have a couple customers left most have new window cleaner,give him the book back and started cleaning them all my self still cleaning them 20 years on.
happy days ;)
-
In my experience, (which is limited I admit) these things are most often sorted out round the back of the shops with baseball bats. Threaten to take most of these blokes to court and they will laugh at you. They don't give a damn about court because they know nothing can come of it . Whats the court going to do? say "you are a very naughty boy" Thats if they even bother to turn up, most don't. Its only a county court anyway.
-
At the end of the day the custy will have who ever they choose to clean their windows.
but one thing i have found, is they dont like under handed / none trust worthy people.
honesty does pay........... this time ;)
-
As far as most customers are concerned the bloke who has been turning up and cleaning their windows for the past year or more IS their window cleaner. Any arrangement they may have had with somebody else who they don't see becomes irrelevent. Thats if they even remember there was one
-
Hi all its all been sorted now he has come round today and give me a list of houses he has picked up on my rounds also on the list was a nice little church in total £115 worth of work all in he seid he is sorry and knows hes f***ed up and he wont do it again i gave him is cash back he made yesterday.of the bit of work he picked up he will hav a extra £10 aweek in is wage all i ask for is honesty all my lads are good workers and reliable just had a look what the lads are avregin each week and its not bad they are taken home £350 with bonuses and they are only workin about 33 hours aweek out of all my lads he is the first 1to go a stray i have six in total and they have all been with me for 6years apart for the 1 who done this yesterday he only been on books for 6weeks i must be doing sumthin rite to have the same lads for 6 years told him if he dus it again he will have no job at all he was on the dole for 2years before i giv him a start ohwell see how he is in the new year ....
-
Good on you Tony. Now you have given him a second chance he may be more loyal to you.
My first employer never used to mind us doing a few shops after we'd finished our days work. My second would sack you on the spot for it. I suppose different employers have different views. The fact that he was out boxing day cleaning windows proves to me he's motivated. Hopefully you can harness his energy to your benefit.
I think the fact that he lied to get your van and drove it without a licence or insurance to clean windows hes picked up behind your back is where I would be concerned. Although I think the cleaning windows thing is a slap on the wrist offence. These other things I think are very bad signs. I'd put a bet on it that you have more trouble with him soon. I would also bet that your other lads will start disliking him very quickly. From what I've read he reminds me of a very dark person I have worked with before and if this is the case I wouldn't be letting him 'research' your company any further!
-
Hi all its all been sorted now he has come round today and give me a list of houses he has picked up on my rounds also on the list was a nice little church in total £115 worth of work all in he seid he is sorry and knows hes f***ed up and he wont do it again i gave him is cash back he made yesterday.of the bit of work he picked up he will hav a extra £10 aweek in is wage all i ask for is honesty all my lads are good workers and reliable just had a look what the lads are avregin each week and its not bad they are taken home £350 with bonuses and they are only workin about 33 hours aweek out of all my lads he is the first 1to go a stray i have six in total and they have all been with me for 6years apart for the 1 who done this yesterday he only been on books for 6weeks i must be doing sumthin rite to have the same lads for 6 years told him if he dus it again he will have no job at all he was on the dole for 2years before i giv him a start ohwell see how he is in the new year ....
I think you've made a good choice.
I could be wrong be he may well end up being one of your best employees - possibly even a supervisor eventually.
There are plenty of precedents.
One of the more public ones that springs to mind was David Beckham after getting sent off against Argentina in a World Cup. Some wanted to hang him by his nuts and never let him play for England again. The manager made him captain - and a good one he was IMO.
-
That what i was thinkin but time will tell he has done well since he started aswell never missed a beat just shows he is keen workin boxin day also told all my lads if they want set up on there own in the future go for it and i will giv them any advice i can ..
-
Over the years I have employed well over 100 window cleaners, I suspect most of them were doing private jobs in their spare time.
It has never bothered me that much, as long as they keep my customers happy, I cant understand why some of you get so upset by it.
-
Good move, nice one.
-
Glad you and him have seen sense chap - its a shame when folk resent a little bit of enterprise
I bet you'll find him to be a good asset now, and it might be worth you offering him a few quid to canvass!! :)
-
Ian
what letter do you send out in a situation like this? you couldnt send me one could you ?
many thanks.
crystalclear.inbox@gmail.com
-
Might just do that if he has picked that amount of work up in 6weeks must be doing sumthin rite doin better then me an i been at it for 16 years I am not botherd about them doing there own work in diffrent areas as long as its not on my rounds and they ask to use my gear its like today 1 of the lads cleaned a car showroom we do and when he was doing it he was approched to clean a big house down the rd he rang and asked if he could do it after showroom told him do it and keep first clean then add it to round he charged her £30 so of that clean when its due again he will get £10 bonus evry time he cleans it so today he done 2jobs and made £80 cash £50for is wage and £30 for first clean on house only worked 3hours if thats not good going what is you cante beat honesty and thats what i keep tellin them all if they wana set up thats fine i will help them out but i think they are happy with the way we work
-
hi tony get trackers on your vans!
-
id start asking around about him, he could be a real bad egg. only 6 weeks in and a chancer already jeesus
in my opinion this bonus you are paying will give them ideas to strike out on their own. i just tell my lads any new enquiry has to ring me ,its not up to them to give a price or anything .
Tony you say you are happy to help them start up on their own,well you are shooting yourself in the neck . Everybodys different but if one of my lot says they are going it alone ive selected the wrong type of worker in the first place and ok ,you can go alone but youre a competitor now and youre on your own.
-
trust issue is broke, if hes only just started your well shot.
the money side I can see where your coming from taking it, not sure if it's legal or not but it is unlikely hes going to say anything when being caught red handed. if he does van rental was more than he made give him an invoice for being cheeky.
-
dont believe any of it. :o
-
A leopard never changes it's spots
You will always be suspicious of this guy is that a good basis for a long term relationship ?
What example has it set for your other employees ?
-
A leopard never changes it's spots
You will always be suspicious of this guy is that a good basis for a long term relationship ?
What example has it set for your other employees ?
Totally agree
-
It's all very well saying that a leopard won't change its spots. If you use analogies like that, you can "prove" many things that may turn out to be untrue. People are more flexible than leopards' spots. It may well be that he turns out to be a bad one. However, now he knows your ground rules better, the opposite is also a strong possibility. The only down side IMO is the possibility that your other staff think they have one "life" - one chance of taking the micky. So maybe the way forward is a memo to each of them saying that any future, similar transgressions by anyone will be dealt with by dismissal.
-
If that was me there would be no way you would take that hard work's money from me and there would be no way you would use your precious van and tools i borrowed off you to work on those houses in the future because they would end up wrecked and you would end up smacked.
Sorry but i think you're an arsehole.
If you think he's an arsehole, I'd have taken the money, fired him and then had police charges brought against him for gaining the van keys by deception and taking the vehicle without the owners consent!
And if you had bothered to read all of Tony's posts on this he has given him the money and his job back!
-
Hi David what would you of done if it happend to you. at the time i was mad but when i calmed down and he had been to see me i give him is money and job back at the end of the day he was in the wrong doing wat he did and i think any1else would be mad if it happend to them........
-
that was nice of you in the end tony,
i think everyone deserves a second chance, hopefully he will prove him self to you again,
-
David sounds like a bundle of fun,
If he was using my tools and my van van, then he would be sacked.
I had trouble with one of my lads claiming hours he had worked, and not doing certain jobs when he told me had. I phoned my HR guy and said draft me a sacking letter, because I was going to sack him straight away, later that day I had calmed down and told HR guy my new plans just to give the guy a talking to.
He told me that in all his years of giving people warnings, the very same people were 99 times out of 100 were sacked within a couple of months, and said I will tell you one thing, that a leopard never changes its spots.
Anyway I got my staff in and gave him a warning, during that warning I asked him was there anything else he wanted to tell me, he swore there was nothing else, he apologised profusely, so i sent him back off to work.
Lo and behold the very next day, we discovered even more naughty things which he had done, so needles to say I had to sack him, My HR gave me a told you so, when i told him.
We are still putting things right, even now, the guy could have caused my business a lot of harm had he carried on.
I learnt a big lesson that day, in that I should of acted a lot sooner and sacked him straight away, there were a few warning signs, but i was to trusting to see them. my reaction was always "there must of been a mistake" or "Oh John, not John he is a really nice guy"
How stupid was I ?
Like I said before, just sack him, you will regret it if you dont, if he has broken your trust once , he certainly will again
-
what i did was to rent a round of a windy the work had not been done for 6 months i cleaned it,went back to the bloke who we were renting from and said you only have a couple customers left most have new window cleaner,give him the book back and started cleaning them all my self still cleaning them 20 years on.
happy days ;)
nice one ;D
-
David sounds like a bundle of fun,
If he was using my tools and my van van, then he would be sacked.
I had trouble with one of my lads claiming hours he had worked, and not doing certain jobs when he told me had. I phoned my HR guy and said draft me a sacking letter, because I was going to sack him straight away, later that day I had calmed down and told HR guy my new plans just to give the guy a talking to.
He told me that in all his years of giving people warnings, the very same people were 99 times out of 100 were sacked within a couple of months, and said I will tell you one thing, that a leopard never changes its spots.
Anyway I got my staff in and gave him a warning, during that warning I asked him was there anything else he wanted to tell me, he swore there was nothing else, he apologised profusely, so i sent him back off to work.
Lo and behold the very next day, we discovered even more naughty things which he had done, so needles to say I had to sack him, My HR gave me a told you so, when i told him.
We are still putting things right, even now, the guy could have caused my business a lot of harm had he carried on.
I learnt a big lesson that day, in that I should of acted a lot sooner and sacked him straight away, there were a few warning signs, but i was to trusting to see them. my reaction was always "there must of been a mistake" or "Oh John, not John he is a really nice guy"
How stupid was I ?
Like I said before, just sack him, you will regret it if you dont, if he has broken your trust once , he certainly will again
David is absolutely Right.
I had a similar situation while back, and I sack him on the spot, why give yourself so much worry and stress of thinking if he is going to do it again or what ever.
Once you have sacked him, you feel much better within very short time when you employ some one much better.
-
poor guy come on guys , he prob has kids , wife , presure in personal life, not saying its an excuse he didnt steel anything , money or customers he only cleaned when he shouldnt have.
maybe he thought its not a big deal now he knows it is sorted.
i think giving him a chance then keeping your eye on him is ok.
if it was anything els like steeling,money or customer, then fine , this was bad but worth giving the kid another chance.
-
So having read this from start to finish...
The lad built up work to the value of over £100+?
He had only worked for you for 6 weeks?
My question/point is this...When did the guy start getting these new customers? they must have been over the space of a few weeks, so in effect the lad was embezzling money practically from the word go.
This is only what you know about, I've had various staffing problems over the last few years and this guy building his own business off the back of yours could prove very costly indeed, I had an almost identical situation to deal with last summer. The lad got fired. >:(
-
So having read this from start to finish...
The lad built up work to the value of over £100+?
He had only worked for you for 6 weeks?
My question/point is this...When did the guy start getting these new customers? they must have been over the space of a few weeks, so in effect the lad was embezzling money practically from the word go.
This is only what you know about, I've had various staffing problems over the last few years and this guy building his own business off the back of yours could prove very costly indeed, I had an almost identical situation to deal with last summer. The lad got fired. >:(
ah 6 weeks isnt a good sign....
-
The simple lesson os to set ground rules from day one and warn all employees that you operate a zero tolerance policy. One break of trust and they are gone....
Works much better if everyone knows where they stand.
In my opinion people can change their spots but it is a rarity....
-
The other thing i dont like is how quickly people resort to threats of violence, it is no way to run a professional business. Its one of the reasons the industry is still tainted....
-
My family are all window cleaners, and employed a fair amount of lads over the years, nearly all commercial, well apart from me, I am mostly domestic, well maybe 60/40 domestic/commercial
my dad never gave a hoot if employees did house's on their own time, neither does my brother, but it was explained from the start it was their own kit and they were not insured.
When I did employ I couldn't care if my lad did houses on his estate in his own time, but again I explained he wasn't insured and the first time I got a call asking when I was coming to clean the windows he would be sacked, and made it clear he would need his own kit and ladder if he did do it, and I would not be responsible for anything he did in his own time
however in this case the guy took a van and couldn't drive legally, a big no in my books. he was using your van and equipment and probably your company name, so he was totally wrong, but you need to make clear from the start what is expected. I probably would have sacked him there and then, although I wouldn't have taken any money from him.
but to guy david who threatened violence and wrecked vans, you are a bampot, what did you expect after the guy took a van fraudulently, do you employ? you might feel differently if you did.
-
There has been more than him who have said violence is the way forward....
-
There has been more than him who have said violence is the way forward....
yes I know all nuggets ;)
-
They seem to think it makes them look hard, its like still being at school.....
This industry needs to realise that being professional is much more important...
-
There has been more than him who have said violence is the way forward....
I think this was aimed at me. I don't advocete violence but just observed that the sort of blokes that rule by fear are the ones who keep their workers on the straight and narrow. Otherwise I don't think its possible but it wouldn't be my way.
And yes there are people round here who would, not so much now but a few years ago there were several. You wouldn't want to cross them.
-
What about staff being on the straight and narrow because they are nice people and have respect for their employer
There are more genuine people out there than you think
-
Hi all sum good comments on this topic he has 1chance left if he brakes it he will b gone. in the new year he will b working with my top lad who has been with me for 6 years so time will tell and vilonce is not the way forward i could of gone down that route but it wouldent look good on my buisness also no good for my famly when i am inside doing 8years and they hav no bread and butter on the table also would lose evrythin i have built up over the years and then he would be laughing so kickin the poop out of him would not make me a winner ......i will keep you all posted on the out come thanks for the advice guys.............
-
so long as he dont turn you top lad
-
tony he will break it mate......and soon.you should of got rid.having read all the posts i would of not given him a second chance.i also wouldnt of took the money off him.
i had similar problems years ago with employees.in the end i just got fed up with all the hassle and now i prefer to work as a sole trader.im far happier and less hassle.
regards
dazmond
-
say bye to him he wil do it again to u Tony if u want to look at him all the time put him with u u are the boss.
am happy what i got me and my step son thats all i got am thinking off putting a van 2 on the road next year thou :)
-
Personally, I would definitely have sacked him and done him a letter saying that you reserve the right to take legal action if you have any evidence of him deliberately targetting your customers. It'll show you mean business and I'd make sure other staff were aware of that also. OK it probably wouldn't pay to enforce it but he can't be sure.
As you've given him a second chance then I would give him a written warning explaining what you expect of him and saying any further problems would result in his instant dismissal. That will make the others think also.
Personally, as I'd only let him work with you - not any of your staff.
Good luck anyway, you seem like a good bloke giving him a chance and I hope he's worthy of it.
-
you reserve the right to take legal action if you have any evidence of him deliberately targetting your customers.
What law will this chap have broken for legal action to be taken against him for targeting customers?
I think you'll find that would backfire, it could be deemed to be a threat to prevent the lad from earning a living and THAT is against the law.
-
you reserve the right to take legal action if you have any evidence of him deliberately targetting your customers.
What law will this chap have broken for legal action to be taken against him for targeting customers?
I think you'll find that would backfire, it could be deemed to be a threat to prevent the lad from earning a living and THAT is against the law.
Everyone has a right to protect their business.
Where I worked previously there was such thing as a 'restricted customer'. That was someone that you had contact with ONLY because of your employment with that firm. You were not allowed to contact that customer for a period of 12 months after leaving. This wording was drawn up by a solicitor so was legal and could equally apply to any business. It formed part of the contract of employment which every employee had to sign.
This does not stop anyone making money in any particular area it only applies to customers which he has come into contact with as a direct result of working for his employer. You could work for all the customers in a street if you wanted to - but not one that you were introduced to by your employer. That is not stopping someone working or earning money and is perfectly legal.
Not sure if how many employers have contracts of employment on here but it was pretty standard wording from my experience in any business where the customer rather than a product was the main asset.
PS I am assuming that all of you who employ do have proper contracts of employment of course. If you don't cover such things then of course you can't do a fat lot!
-
Just because it was drawn up by a lawyer it does not make it legal, would be nearly impossible to bring to court if you left and then worked with that customer. It also woundnt guarantee that you would keep the customer as they have a choice who they buy from unless tied in to a watertight contract. There is only one winner in situations like that and its the lawyer....
I am sure even with a contract that if a window cleaning customer wanted to change companies that there is not alot you can do....
Its just business and it happens in every walk of life...
-
Tony
Dont forget that taking the van is classified as theft.
TWOC - Taking Without The Owners Consent
The risks this lad has brought to your business especially if he crashed the van or damaged property when he wasnt covered or insured.
You would have been paying for his mistakes for years. I wouldnt have a second thought about hiring him again.
Danny
-
What about staff being on the straight and narrow because they are nice people and have respect for their employer
There are more genuine people out there than you think
Yes but I am far too cynical to ever admit that you may be right. Speaking as someone who fiddled and stole from every employer I ever worked for and everybody else I know just about has done the same. I am not going to be that quick to give anyone the benefit of the doubt.
-
What about staff being on the straight and narrow because they are nice people and have respect for their employer
There are more genuine people out there than you think
Yes but I am far too cynical to ever admit that you may be right. Speaking as someone who fiddled and stole from every employer I ever worked for and everybody else I know just about has done the same. I am not going to be that quick to give anyone the benefit of the doubt.
Are you saying you're a thief, Vince? :o
-
What about staff being on the straight and narrow because they are nice people and have respect for their employer
There are more genuine people out there than you think
Yes but I am far too cynical to ever admit that you may be right. Speaking as someone who fiddled and stole from every employer I ever worked for and everybody else I know just about has done the same. I am not going to be that quick to give anyone the benefit of the doubt.
Are you saying you're a thief, Vince? :o
Yes basically, isn't everyone?
-
What about staff being on the straight and narrow because they are nice people and have respect for their employer
There are more genuine people out there than you think
Yes but I am far too cynical to ever admit that you may be right. Speaking as someone who fiddled and stole from every employer I ever worked for and everybody else I know just about has done the same. I am not going to be that quick to give anyone the benefit of the doubt.
Are you saying you're a thief, Vince? :o
Yes basically, isn't everyone?
Not everyone. Not yet anyway...
-
Hope you never need to do business on here with anyone vince.....
-
Just because it was drawn up by a lawyer it does not make it legal, would be nearly impossible to bring to court if you left and then worked with that customer. It also woundnt guarantee that you would keep the customer as they have a choice who they buy from unless tied in to a watertight contract. There is only one winner in situations like that and its the lawyer....
I am sure even with a contract that if a window cleaning customer wanted to change companies that there is not alot you can do....
Its just business and it happens in every walk of life...
The purpose of it with my old employer was that it made the employee think before trying to pinch a customer and it did deter most of them because there was always a risk that the employer would carry through the threat!
Do agree with you about the lawyer winning but I don't think it hurts to have those sort of clauses in
-
What about staff being on the straight and narrow because they are nice people and have respect for their employer
There are more genuine people out there than you think
Yes but I am far too cynical to ever admit that you may be right. Speaking as someone who fiddled and stole from every employer I ever worked for and everybody else I know just about has done the same. I am not going to be that quick to give anyone the benefit of the doubt.
Are you saying you're a thief, Vince? :o
Yes basically, isn't everyone?
I don't think I am.
-
had breakfast at mi mates and wen i looked out the window seen one of my vans parked up no ladders on and could not see any1 so i went for awalk in the erea and there he was new lad traddin away on a block of terriced houses 8 in a row so i went back mi mates and waited to he was putttin ladders on van then i pounced on him he was shocked to see me i sed wats goin on he sed they were 1offs i sed wat 8 in a row he had no replie so i took the keys off him he has no lic to drive told him 2 cum and see me later in his pockets was £78 in cash so looks like he has done afew jobs today i will be keepin the cash for usein my gear and van also i will be addin the work 2my buisness he is now down the rd lost agood job £250 aweek plus bonuses silly boy he rang me told him not bother cumin seein me .
totally agree with what you did. whether it's legal is another thing, but i would do the same given the circumstances.
-
Bottom line is its stealing.
Stealing is the worst and you have made a monumental mistake taking him back.
What precedent are you giving to this lad or your other employees or whoever else is watching.
Youve basically told them you will take poop and that weakness will be exploited at some point
Danny
-
What about staff being on the straight and narrow because they are nice people and have respect for their employer
There are more genuine people out there than you think
Yes but I am far too cynical to ever admit that you may be right. Speaking as someone who fiddled and stole from every employer I ever worked for and everybody else I know just about has done the same. I am not going to be that quick to give anyone the benefit of the doubt.
Are you saying you're a thief, Vince? :o
Yes basically, isn't everyone?
I don't think I am.
Have you never taken a pen home from work or found a coin in the street?
-
What about staff being on the straight and narrow because they are nice people and have respect for their employer
There are more genuine people out there than you think
Yes but I am far too cynical to ever admit that you may be right. Speaking as someone who fiddled and stole from every employer I ever worked for and everybody else I know just about has done the same. I am not going to be that quick to give anyone the benefit of the doubt.
Are you saying you're a thief, Vince? :o
Yes basically, isn't everyone?
I don't think I am.
Have you never taken a pen home from work or found a coin in the street?
Not done the pen; that I can remember, anyway.
I've found coins and notes- yes- and put them in my pocket. But I didn't know who they belonged to, if that makes me a thief then, fair enough ???. If I saw someone drop some money I would tell them.
I always think- that I don't think I should have, something that isn't mine (or rightfully mine).
-
Vince you said that you spoke as someone who fiddled and stole from every employer.
That is not just refreshingly honest - (unless you are saying you would no longer do those things) it is brazen and not something I or believe many would do. Maybe you phrased it wrongly?
No I would not knowingly take a pen or an item of stationery from any employer for personal use. Or when I worked in a shop dream of taking cash out of the till. It is no different to me.
As for finding a coin in the street then I do not view that as stealing because I do not feel it's owner would be looking for it. A note I view differently. (probably not a fiver - I'm inconsistent I know)
Once my teenage daughter found a £20 note in a park. I was with my daughter and we took it to the police station. Three months later no one had claimed it (obviously)and she got it to keep.
Before you ask me at which cathedral I worship I believe I have a reasonable view which comes under the heading of "do unto others as you would wish to be done to you etc."
Had I found a 20 euro note abroad or a tenner in Snowdonia I wouldn't take too much time looking for a copper as I think the effort I would expend goes beyond what is sensible to do.
Conversely had I dropped said notes I wouldn't be knocking at the copshop hoping it would be handed in.
A wallet or a mobile would deffo get handed in - contents and all.
-
Well its the truth, you can make of it what you like. My expenses were always OTT and so was my milage.( So was everybody else's as far as I could tell) it was a way of life.
-
vince ,have u any stuff from way back ,the Reme days? i still have my combat jacket from 1984 but not my beret or SLR
-
You have got me thinking now, I don't think I have. I had a combat jacket for years but it got too tight and it ended up in the garage. Wish I could still buy the socks, I got some off ebay but they are not the same.