Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: GB Window Cleaning on August 26, 2010, 08:03:10 pm

Title: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: GB Window Cleaning on August 26, 2010, 08:03:10 pm
had a first clean today 3 storey end town house. just had a phone call from the owner saying it wasnt worth £20 ( 12 weekly clean) and both the 1st and 2nd floor sills were still dirty and he wants to cancel!

just wondered if others have a problem with w.f.p cleaning sills? this is the 2nd person to cancel for this reason!

thanks.
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: jouk45 on August 26, 2010, 08:08:18 pm
are you saying 3 stories up and they are still complaining about sills  :o
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: windiewasher on August 26, 2010, 08:09:32 pm
sill brush?
 ;D
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: jouk45 on August 26, 2010, 08:11:57 pm
yes i was going to say sill brush to, but at 3 stories high, anything that height i clean, they are just glad to get the windows cleaned, i think they are at it,
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: tom2009 on August 26, 2010, 08:12:49 pm
I drop a cloth over the brush when they've stopped running with water and wipe down the sill. I was gonna start a thread to ask about this as it takes a fair bit of time...interested to hear what the established pro's think.
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: windiewasher on August 26, 2010, 08:14:11 pm
yeah i have a microfibre cloth with velcro on it to attach to the brush works a treat!

I drop a cloth over the brush when they've stopped running with water and wipe down the sill. I was gonna start a thread to ask about this as it takes a fair bit of time...interested to hear what the established pro's think.
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: jouk45 on August 26, 2010, 08:18:18 pm
i clean a lot of 2 and 3 storie high buildings, most have never been cleaned in years, they usualy have a build up of seagull and pigeon droppings, no chance of getting it off at that  height, on the  first few clean, if at all
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: Smudger on August 26, 2010, 08:26:01 pm
Only had his once, and i know the custy was trying it on as wifey told me they were lovely when i finished the first clean - 4 weeks later he waits till i set up then says all the sill were still green and i had left 'splash marks' all over the windows  ::)
i went up the ladders and they were clean, then he said 'oh i went up a few days ago and cleaned them...

this was the catalist to introducing 1st clean prices.

Anyway, i always scrub the sill and use the angle adaptor to adjust the brush and get great results


Darran
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: jouk45 on August 26, 2010, 08:34:21 pm
you have to let customers know, that you can not guarantee that sills at that height  will be cleaned spottless, no matter how good you are, no one has the scrubbing power from that distance using wfp, i do guarantee the frames and glass, but do advice that it can take several cleans before it clears up,
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: DanC on August 26, 2010, 08:41:11 pm
I have a number of town houses and never had any complaints.  Over time, i think you find that the pure water tapping (when rinsing) on the sills helps.
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: GB Window Cleaning on August 26, 2010, 08:43:48 pm
beg your pardon people, i ment 2 storey house, ground floor, 1st & 2nd! sorry my bad! i'll take this advice onboards about the sills not garenteed to be clean after 2nd floor in the future

thankyou very much for your input everyone, dont know what i'd do without this forum hehehe

cheers
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: gary999 on August 26, 2010, 09:22:59 pm
never have a problem on wood framed windows and cills
only pvc where there is a gap between the frame and the cill
crap collects over time.

i explain to customer that it likely when i leave, dirt and water
is likely to seep out and it will take a few cleans to eradicate the
problem but in the long term you will be left with a better overall
clean
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: LWC on August 26, 2010, 09:28:06 pm
Most importantly, did you get paid?
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: GB Window Cleaning on August 26, 2010, 09:38:27 pm
got paid yea, i'll remember all these tips for the next time i do 2nd floor clean

thanks guys
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: LWC on August 26, 2010, 09:42:30 pm
Dont worry bout it then. Cant be doing with people like that. If they had of asked you to pop back and sort it fair enough, but they dropped you just like that.

I had exaclty the same the other day on a 3rd story, as jo said they should be happy enough to get their windows cleaned!! Not to worry about the sills. He told me hes "paying you this time but i dont want you to do them again and im going to find a way to do it myself" ... replied with "fair enough, bye" I offered to sort it for him and that wasnt good enough so you cant win with people like this. Dont worry yourself about it and write it off.
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: GB Window Cleaning on August 26, 2010, 09:47:22 pm
thanks for the kind words sansai lwc  :) to be honest i didnt like "the cut of his jib anyway" if you catch my drift, when he phoned i felt like he was after a row, like you said if he asked me to come sort it out i would have he just wanted a one off i think but didnt want to tell me that!

anyway i'll mark it down to a learning experience glad he's gone as i say i didnt like him anyway hehe

thanks again for all your kind words of support! nearly brings a tear of joy to my eyes  ;D
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: LWC on August 26, 2010, 10:08:23 pm
Your not alone  ;)

This is me with customers like that

(http://images.clipartof.com/small/81467-Royalty-Free-RF-Clipart-Illustration-Of-A-Red-Marker-Resting-On-A-December-Calender-With-Crossed-Out-Days.jpg)
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: tom2009 on August 26, 2010, 10:31:25 pm
Dont worry bout it then. Cant be doing with people like that. If they had of asked you to pop back and sort it fair enough, but they dropped you just like that.

I had exaclty the same the other day on a 3rd story, as jo said they should be happy enough to get their windows cleaned!! Not to worry about the sills. He told me hes "paying you this time but i dont want you to do them again and im going to find a way to do it myself" ... replied with "fair enough, bye" I offered to sort it for him and that wasnt good enough so you cant win with people like this. Dont worry yourself about it and write it off.
True enough, any reasonable person would have requested that you come back and sort it out. Nobody needs unreasonable customers.
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: gewindows on August 26, 2010, 10:38:17 pm
I think they have a point regarding wanting sills cleaned. Theyre paying for a service, you owe them that, too many on here think the customer owes us a living.

My business has a reputation its called 'customer care'.

However I personally wouldnt entertain a £20 job every 3 months, Id smell a rat if they wern't prepared to have a town-house cleaned at 6 weekly.

Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: suds window service on August 26, 2010, 10:39:50 pm
gb you could always take a little more time on the job and change the brush angle for the said sills? so the brush has total contact with them.
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: james44 on August 26, 2010, 10:51:57 pm
Quote
I think they have a point regarding wanting sills cleaned. Theyre paying for a service, you owe them that, too many on here think the customer owes us a living.

My business has a reputation its called 'customer care'.
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: mark mann on August 26, 2010, 11:55:50 pm
thier manner doesnt sound like they are  fair or reasonable - if they had pointed out and asked if you could improve on that fair enough but if they are funny and offhand id re-do and drop them coz they sound like more agro than its worth.

i disagree about the customer expecting this job to be spot on if the sills were that dirty how did they get in that state in the first place - if theyd been having regular cleans or looked after them better a standard brush or sill brush would be acceptable - but if they are caked then THEY SHOULD HAVE FLAGGED THAT TO YOU so you were aware and even had the chance to adjust your price accordingly - but they wouldnt do that wouldnt do that coz quite clearly they are cheap skates. CAN YOU TELL ive had a p taker today as well lol.
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: GB Window Cleaning on August 27, 2010, 07:31:43 am
@mark mann... yeah i can tell mate  ;D.

Dump!

All the best, g.b.
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: Londoner on August 27, 2010, 08:08:14 am
Never take anything said by just one customer seriously. The world is full of pedantic twats or people that only wanted a one off clean anyway and now want to cancel.

The idea is not to please them all. Its only to please some of them. You are playing a percentages game nothing more. Over time you accumulate the good ones but the rest go in the reject file.
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: lozsing on August 27, 2010, 08:16:39 am
I use a sill brush but with water off so i dont flush out hidden dirt
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: GB Window Cleaning on August 27, 2010, 08:44:44 am
@ lozsing...

I had that very idea about turning water off when doing sills today, might try it!

thanks mate
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: LWC on August 27, 2010, 10:16:50 am
I think they have a point regarding wanting sills cleaned. Theyre paying for a service, you owe them that, too many on here think the customer owes us a living.

So if there was a problem and they were resonable GB would of gone back.

I had one a while ago, sills were green, i did give them a good scrub but i couldnt see up there. Anyway whilst round the back she politely asked if i could wipe the sill again, and she pointed out where was worst, which i did. I did not mind this at all, she was happy i was happy.

They be fair...we'll be fair. Yeh agree, we owe them the service...but everyone makes mistakes...even me, to which i would gladly rectify on them asking to redo them by pointing the problem out.
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: david68 on August 27, 2010, 01:33:36 pm
I now use a sill brush for all my work, but i also use a 14" applicator attached to an 18ft xtel water fed pole and this does a good job on the sill and customers like the effort that i am trying.

I have lost more customer though sills than glass.

Sometimes i reckon if you clean the sill 100% the windows can be left untouch... (Joke)

Dave
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: dai on August 27, 2010, 04:33:13 pm
Using a cill brush or wiping with a cloth take time, it's Ok if they want to pay the extra.
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: A & J Owen Window Cleaning on August 27, 2010, 06:33:33 pm
we had a customer today who previously had someone doing wfp and sills weren't clean. We did them and asked her to check them before we went and if they weren't clean we'd do by hand - she was happy that we'd asked and happy with the result! Some people just enjoy being unreasonable - perhaps they have sad lives ;D
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: gewindows on August 27, 2010, 06:36:26 pm
I think they have a point regarding wanting sills cleaned. Theyre paying for a service, you owe them that, too many on here think the customer owes us a living.

So if there was a problem and they were resonable GB would of gone back.

I had one a while ago, sills were green, i did give them a good scrub but i couldnt see up there. Anyway whilst round the back she politely asked if i could wipe the sill again, and she pointed out where was worst, which i did. I did not mind this at all, she was happy i was happy.

They be fair...we'll be fair. Yeh agree, we owe them the service...but everyone makes mistakes...even me, to which i would gladly rectify on them asking to redo them by pointing the problem out.

Of course they should be reasonable, but too many people on here have a knee-jerk reaction of 'DUMP!' immediately a customer says anything that might offend their ego.

I cant imagine some people seriously being in business from what they say on here sometimes.  So the customer is having a bad day, big deal.

Its not a case of they be fair we be fair. Just be fair, regardless.
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: gary999 on August 27, 2010, 06:47:33 pm
I think they have a point regarding wanting sills cleaned. Theyre paying for a service, you owe them that, too many on here think the customer owes us a living.

So if there was a problem and they were resonable GB would of gone back.

I had one a while ago, sills were green, i did give them a good scrub but i couldnt see up there. Anyway whilst round the back she politely asked if i could wipe the sill again, and she pointed out where was worst, which i did. I did not mind this at all, she was happy i was happy.

They be fair...we'll be fair. Yeh agree, we owe them the service...but everyone makes mistakes...even me, to which i would gladly rectify on them asking to redo them by pointing the problem out.

Of course they should be reasonable, but too many people on here have a knee-jerk reaction of 'DUMP!' immediately a customer says anything that might offend their ego.

I cant imagine some people seriously being in business from what they say on here sometimes.  So the customer is having a bad day, big deal.

Its not a case of they be fair we be fair. Just be fair, regardless.

yep i think they call it good customer service :)
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: LWC on August 27, 2010, 06:48:49 pm
Try your best always, I always do, be friendly, be reliable, do a good job...but if they cant be fair or reasonable their loss.

A few years ago i would of cared ... 10 years on and i really dont...wanna be a pain? Bye bye
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: GB Window Cleaning on August 28, 2010, 09:21:33 am
thankyou sensai, well said.

G.B
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: gary999 on August 28, 2010, 10:54:05 am
most of my custies are good as gold we all have bad
days windies and customers alike.

i tend to bend a little no matter which way the wind blows
but no so much that i snap :)

i have difficult customers who have good days and good
custies who have bad days they are all the same to me

as long as they pay well and promptly :)
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: woody1 on August 28, 2010, 05:37:02 pm
i cant belive you lot the custy has a right to moan they pay you to clean the windows not do a half job and you say wfp is better better my a----   if you cant do it properley you better give up or buy some ladders lads
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: jouk45 on August 28, 2010, 07:53:20 pm
i cant belive you lot the custy has a right to moan they pay you to clean the windows not do a half job and you say wfp is better better my a----   if you cant do it properley you better give up or buy some ladders lads
woody your missing the point, its about sills 2 and 3 stories high,  ::) the glass and frames, are no problem,
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: woody1 on August 28, 2010, 09:41:19 pm
so what it does not matter how high they are if you say you can clean the windows i would want them spotless not half clean mate thats what they pay you to do tyre fitters dont just put the tyre on and not inflate it, get my point   :)
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: gewindows on August 28, 2010, 10:17:11 pm
the glass and frames, are no problem,


No reason why the sills should be either.
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: mikecam on August 28, 2010, 10:31:04 pm
Using a cill brush or wiping with a cloth take time, it's Ok if they want to pay the extra.
Thats my take on it too. I have low priced window work where they don't get that and i have higher priced full customer care work where they do get it. Its important to iron out with the customer what is expected, and thats the danger of rushing quotes.
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: LWC on August 28, 2010, 11:46:31 pm
i cant belive you lot the custy has a right to moan they pay you to clean the windows not do a half job and you say wfp is better better my a----   if you cant do it properley you better give up or buy some ladders lads

So why not ask him to come back? And by way, WFP is better  :P ;)
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: gewindows on August 28, 2010, 11:49:30 pm
He did say in his OP this wasn't the first time someone had complained about his standard of work, perhaps thats an indication.

Matt, stop blaming the customer, the workmanship was shoddy.
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: LWC on August 28, 2010, 11:55:09 pm
Im not blaming customer. Shody work what ever i dont care...they could of just asked for him to redo...come back and take a look etc. Hows he supposed to learn from his mistakes?
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: james44 on August 29, 2010, 12:15:32 am
If that is his second customer to complain then he has not learned has he!
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: woody1 on August 29, 2010, 08:15:51 am
i cant belive you lot the custy has a right to moan they pay you to clean the windows not do a half job and you say wfp is better better my a----   if you cant do it properley you better give up or buy some ladders lads

So why not ask him to come back? And by way, WFP is better :P ;)
my dad says trad is better and by the way he is bigger than yours  ;D ;D :D ;)
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: Nigel Lee on August 29, 2010, 11:00:30 am
Picked up a job yesterday for this very same reason, the sills were going black.  He insisted I did it trad though.  £25 for 45 minutes. 4 weekly.  Last guy was getting round in 25 with the wfp, and I'm sure I could of done the same.  Safe enough to trad, but time consuming with lots of ladder movements.  Jobs like this I just trad, if I tried to tell him its operator error I might end up down the road like the last guy as he seemed one of those wfp haters.

After I finshed he goes, "you know I really hated handing over £25 to a guy who never worked for his money."  I'm sure a lot of custies resent how easy life is as a poler, and like to see us sweat a bit  ::)
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: LWC on August 29, 2010, 11:42:03 am
Be nice if they saw how much it costs us to set it up and run it, let alone making the water and water costs, getting it to the van, transporting it round, more fuel expenses. Poles breaking, slipping needing repairing, hoses splitting usually in the middle, getting caught on everything, hose reels breaking, pumps playing up, air locks etc .... yeh real easy...
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: Richard Neal on August 29, 2010, 05:03:42 pm
I had a new one last week complained about her sills, said they were still dirty upstairs so agreed to go back, i explained to her about the trapped dirt and the fact that the ones above the conny had never been cleaned / i cant see them and said i will clean them all again now as long as you check them while i am here, that stopped her moaning!! so cleaned them all very happy custy ( got tea and biccys as well) and now wants clean every 6 weeks (£25) conny roof done £40 and all gutters and soffits £80

Happy days
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: A & J Owen Window Cleaning on August 29, 2010, 05:11:49 pm
are these custies for real not only they are in the clouds they have the reason to moan  in foture when washing keep the water on to let the dirt wash away had one last week she seems fine with doin that way or get a sill brush and also ithere is a extention to a wfp you could fit to the back was a unger product will get the details for ya
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: Richard Neal on August 29, 2010, 07:57:38 pm
i used a sill brush, just a few bits ran out after i was done ( it was raining as i left as well) i,ll just clean the same every time then there wont be any crap left to wash out
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: jouk45 on August 29, 2010, 10:53:23 pm
so what it does not matter how high they are if you say you can clean the windows i would want them spotless not half clean mate thats what they pay you to do tyre fitters dont just put the tyre on and not inflate it, get my point   :)
and how many wfp w/c actualy state  in their ads we clean sills at 3 stories high, i personaly have not had any complaints, am just saying it is not easy cleaning sills at that height,
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: jouk45 on August 29, 2010, 11:00:50 pm
the glass and frames, are no problem,


No reason why the sills should be either.
i agree, i always do the sills,
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: Gav Camm lammy 283 on August 30, 2010, 01:01:23 am
i cant belive you lot the custy has a right to moan they pay you to clean the windows not do a half job and you say wfp is better better my a----   if you cant do it properley you better give up or buy some ladders lads

So why not ask him to come back? And by way, WFP is better :P ;)
my dad says trad is better and by the way he is bigger than yours  ;D ;D :D ;)
but is he bigger than mine pal  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: woody1 on August 30, 2010, 07:38:43 am
i cant belive you lot the custy has a right to moan they pay you to clean the windows not do a half job and you say wfp is better better my a----   if you cant do it properley you better give up or buy some ladders lads

So why not ask him to come back? And by way, WFP is better :P ;)
my dad says trad is better and by the way he is bigger than yours  ;D ;D :D ;)
but is he bigger than mine pal ;D ;D ;D

thats not very nice you know he lost his legs mate you have changed mate  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: Richard Neal on August 30, 2010, 09:09:14 am
Basically if they wont let you go back to sort out the problem youve lost it end of story, ive done cleans before and missed complete windows and patio doors where my head was somewhere else!! on a first clean its always difficult with wfp because you realy dont know how clean they will be when it dries up.

Theyre just wasting your time and energy mate
Title: Re: w.f.p not cleaning sills properly
Post by: Dave Anderson on August 30, 2010, 07:22:19 pm
The thing is ...we are two separate entities...the customer rightly expects the glass and sills to be cleaned to their expectation and we the window cleaner are sometimes not able to provide the service that the customers expects but we expect the customer to provide the money regardless...

Wfp is good but on some properties I have but every now and then I have to get up there all close and personal like with a rag and do a proper job.

Trad is great, trad is poo
WFP is great, wfp is poo

Was'nt it Tosh that onced said something along the lines that he does not set out to do a perfect job but that which is acceptable...to both parties.

Dave.