Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: David Rogers on July 19, 2010, 09:57:28 pm
-
Hi,
Firstly, I know this topic may generate some 'can of worms' points, possibly disinterest, possibly blanket views like "dry carpet cleaning is not deep cleaning!" but I'll go for it anyway.
Are there any active members here who provide only dry or very low moisture carpet cleaning services? It's been playing on my mind for a while to think about going down this route. I know some people will not deem it as a deep clean but I am doing more and more dry carpet cleaning business and I have really honed my skills and methods in this area. Yesterday a friend of mine came over for a cycle ride and brought me some spare carpet over as he regularly does (to mess up and do fun things with!).
I wanted to try out one of the types of tests you see on You Tube (yes I know some are very dodgy) so I put some masking tape down the middle and I done my best ever dry job on one side (thorough vacuuming, my latest pre-spray formula for dry, then a good session with the Envirodri GEN4, then the sponges, then the GEN4 again, then the vacuum)....... on the other side I vacuumed just as thoroughly, then presprayed with Prochem Trafficlean, agitated with my brush after a dwell, then Hot Water Extracted, using Prochem Extraction Plus. The results were really conclusive; the 'dry' cleaned side was brighter, fresher and although both sides were completely clean, the carpet on the 'dry' side just looked newer. The colours were vivid and deeper; it looked restored whereas the HWE side looked clean but a bit flat.
I realised that the lifting of the pile that you get with the GEN4 is a massive factor is the overall appearance of the treated carpet. Clearly using the GEN4 also maximizes the effectiveness of the pre-spray phase. I'm not bashing HWE here or claiming that dry is the new saviour. What was interesting is that I got the opposite result that I was expecting; I had told my mate in advance that the HWE side would look better as it's a deeper clean but objectively, there was absolutely no contention that the dry side looked strikingly better. My mate concluded that "if the dry looks like that and there's no drying time, it's a bloody no-brainer".
The carpet was a grubby mid-70s Axminster. No real stains as such but lots of grease and dirt.
So I feel I am personally at a crossroads; whether to stay as I am or whether to change my entire business and marketing strategy to become one of the dry only operators like 'bone-dry' or 'zero dry time', selling my two portable HWEs and re-investing the money in more dry kit. Alongside dry compound I would certainly retain my rotary too as an alternative for heavier stain busting work.
I'd love to hear any (constructive) views or especially to hear from anyone here that runs a dry only model.
Cheers.
-
I'm mainly dry when its not raining 8)
Joking aside I noticed that Ep plus @ 100-1 is ph 9, although this has brighteners any carpet
left in an alkaline state will dry dull looking. A test with the F&F rinse would be a better comparison.
How would you do draught marks or stairs?
May I ask what your pre-spray is?
Regards Paul
-
David quite simply do both.Have 2 websites and 2 sides to your business.I have www.drycleancarpets.co.uk and a steamway 9100lx(along with a thermadry system too)so there is no need to be one or the other.If you are convinced by DRY then promote it as much as possible.The downside is the cost of the sponges so when people say they want it to be DRY straight away lots of them dont want to pay the extra cost.Regards Alan Turner(swindon)
-
I also offer the Envirodri system but rarely use it, what i have found with the granules though is that no matter how much you vacuum some remain in the carpet which is not a problem until you clean a deep pile plain coloured, especially if it's a striking colour i have done a deep red coloured carpet and green and i must have spent an hour on one room just vacuuming even after this when i got the carpet groomer out i was still able to bring up some of the "microsponges" from the base of the carpet, the other green carpet i did i got my first call back because after the customer walked across it a few times the "sponges" flicked up from the base again and were really visible.
I have only experienced this problem with carpets that show up the "sponges" and not on patterned carpets but it shows to me that even with a thorough vacuum you cannot remove them all.i even went back over with the gen 4 to pull up any loose "sponges" the results are pretty good though but not convinced of spot and stain removal ability.
-
I am LM only , I also know half a dozen near to you who are too , they all make an excellent living.
-
Thanks for the comments.
Alan, you raise a very good point about 'just do both' ; that is exactly where I am at the moment and to be fair the old adage "why fix it if it ain't broke" could be applied. The issue for me is that I offer 3 methods of carpet cleaning, guaranteed to be the same price. This gives me a USP of being able to say to customers that I'll turn up with the kit to use 3 possible methods and advise on the best method for the job. It works really well as a marketing approach and customers like it - but I'm bloody sick of humping a portable HWE, the GEN4, a Numatic Rotary, an Oreck Orbiter, and all sets of chems to every job! >:(
You're absolutely right that chem costs are higher on dry compound compared to HWE. Although I find them lowest on Bonnet cleaning (or low moisture rotary as I prefer to call it :)). James - I haven't really had that problem with the compound before, although I do agree that in general, the post-clean vacuuming can be a bit hellish and long-winded when doing an Envirodri clean. I honestly can't ever say I've seen sponges left in the carpet though; and I've never had a customer calling back about left sponges. I find that if I spend as long on the GEN4, before putting the sponges down, it pays dividends for when you're later getting them back up. If I don't use the GEN4 before putting sponges down, they are harder to get all back up.
As an aside, it does make me laugh when you watch the Host videos and they talk about how nice it is without 'the mess from water' ; all the dry compound methods are THE messiest form of cleaning carpets! The sponges can get everywhere, although with practice they can be contained. The cleaning of the GEN4 is also quite hairy; I find I need to spend 30 mins cleaning it per 3 hours of use; that's quite a lot of time.
I think ultimately, Alan is right, the best thing to do is probably to keep both sides but focus my marketing on the side I'd prefer to be working in. A Thermadry would be lovely; hardly any set up, light work, good results, fast dry, and little after-clean of the machine. It may well be my next toy on the list. ;D
Dave.
-
David,
I've got HWE, Dry Fusion and HOST and use all three.
I would advise against selling off your kit unless you really NEED to. You may get a contract where tou need different approches in different areas.
The idea of separate marketing above is a good one.
We used to have someone near us who was a guttering specialist, a facia specialist, a window specialist and a few others. All had separate adverts in Yellow Pages (in the good old days when it was really popular)
-
Cheers Garry.
I think the key motivation for me here was either laziness, or the desire to simplify, or a bit of both. ;D
-
I use only Host and find in the main it gives good results, although have walked away from a couple of jobs because I knew it would not bring the real mingers up.
Thinking of buying a small spotter purely for stains but not really come across that many to justify yet.
Tend to advertise more to b&b's etc where they don't have time to wait for a carpet to dry and after 2 years now am getting repeats building up.
Can anyone recommend a good machine for spots and upholstery? Use the Aridex now with the harder brushes but sometimes it just doesn't cut the mustard.
Chris
ecocarpetcleaning.net
-
Thanks for the comments.
but I'm bloody sick of humping a portable HWE, the GEN4, a Numatic Rotary, an Oreck Orbiter, and all sets of chems to every job! >:(
You could always sell me the Oreck Orbiter ;) ;)
-
from what my customers have told me, shake and vac cleaning gets good results at first but slowly get worse and worse on every visit, come across this a few times, guess its the slow build up of left granuals.
-
I use only Host and find in the main it gives good results, although have walked away from a couple of jobs because I knew it would not bring the real mingers up.
Thinking of buying a small spotter purely for stains but not really come across that many to justify yet.
Tend to advertise more to b&b's etc where they don't have time to wait for a carpet to dry and after 2 years now am getting repeats building up.
Can anyone recommend a good machine for spots and upholstery? Use the Aridex now with the harder brushes but sometimes it just doesn't cut the mustard.
Chris
ecocarpetcleaning.net
Hey Chris - I agree on Aridex. Bought one a week ago from Ian Monk (CleanMachine) and it went back yesterday; great on mildly soiled but I found the lack of heat comprimised it on heavier soiled suites..... just going to use HWE on suites now as my new Turbo Dryers arrived yesterday.
For a small, handheld spotting HWE machine I would recommend the Prochem Bravo, or even smaller Prochem Spot Pro. Both excellent machines but a bit expensive at around £500-600.
Still if you're using mainly dry, they will be excellent on specific spots and problem stains that the HOST can't get up on it's own.
Clean Machine also do a CFR spotting machine for £475. It's towards the bottom of this page:-
http://www.machinesthatclean.com/Carpet_Cleaners.htm
Don't know much about it but seems a similar size and spec to the prochem spot pro.
Cheers,
David.
-
You could always sell me the Oreck Orbiter ;) ;)
Heh heh........ that little beauty will be the last machine I ever sell! ;)
-
from what my customers have told me, shake and vac cleaning gets good results at first but slowly get worse and worse on every visit, come across this a few times, guess its the slow build up of left granuals.
Derek - I've found all of your posts credible and worth a read since I joined here, til that one. ;) ..... only jesting. But 'shake n vac' ? Does that mean your truckmount is basically just a big karcher petrol washer (on steroids) ;D
I really don't 'get' this thing about the dry compound getting 'left' in the carpet. Couldn't exactly the same be said about residue from Extraction fluid/powder? Are you guys using a rinse / ph neutralizer on EVERY hot water extraction?... yeah right ;) I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that anyone who isn't getting all of the dry compound out isn't doing the process correctly; the only things I can see that would cause dry compound to be left behind are; too much prespray (saturating the compound), insufficient vacuum performance, insufficient patience (to do the post compound vacuuming with very slow vacuum strokes), or perhaps poor planning (forgetting where you've put the compound then leaving it! Even using too much compound shouldn't cause it to not come up.
-
sorry dave,, i mean no offence by the term shake and vac. its just how i call it. martin 606 is your
shake low moisture man. think he's been doing it for years, not sure if he wears a flowery skirt though when he's laying down the granuals. ;D
-
Seriously no offence taken Derek ;D ...... I don't offend easily, and likewise I enjoy a bit well-spirited jesting.
Let's see if Martin606 comes along then and what he reckons about all this shake n vac business. Actually, if I'm honest, the first time I ever saw and became aware of dry compound cleaning I saw it being done with a Sebo Duo and my first impression was "that just looks like shake n vac being rubbed in with a carpet sweeper" :-X :-X
;D
-
Thanks David,
that's just what I'v been looking for!
Chris
ecocarpetcleaning.net
-
I have done dry compound cleaning alongside HWE since starting up 6 years ago. I probably get 10 jobs a year for it. Good results are obtained by pre-misting with microsplitter. After working the sponges in (with envirodri) the dwell time is important - at least 20 mins. I vacuum with Sebo BS36 which is handy for the edges, then finish off with my Kirby. To be fair i would not ever select this method unless it was driven by customers wishes.
-
Pretty much the same equipment / approach as myself, Jacko. Your absolutely right about the dwell time. I think Envirodri need a longer dwell than HOST sponges but dare I say the end result is worth it / better, in my experience.
-
The dwell time with sponges should be so they are dry.
Thats the whole point - when you leave the premises the carpets are dry.
How you going to vac out when the sponges are still wet? They going to be more difficult to remove if they are still wet, and of course its dangerous to suck up wet with a vac not designed for wet.
If you are going to prspray with Nemesis, M-Power, microsplitter etc you must ensure you dont apply too much or the sponges will never soak it up and then you are leaving soiling in the carpet.
So prpespary is a MIST, aggitate it well BEFORE applying sponges, then aggitate well after applying sponges.
-
So prpespary is a MIST, aggitate it well BEFORE applying sponges, then aggitate well after applying sponges.
[/quote
Joe is spot on i forgot to mention aggitating the prespray mist first - this is essential
-
We have a dry franchise customer and they swear by Multisolv as the best pre-spray.
-
my test would be could a 'dry' cleaner get a minging indian restaurant carpet clean, sorry, but i don't think so. i struggled last week to get an indian carpet clean with 500psi, much more than i would usually use and REALLY hot rinse, sorry but i would love to have seen that dry cleaned,
colin
-
Colin, I don't think anyone would disagree with you. Dry Compound has it's limitations, absolutely. I guess the point is that as a dry operator with effective marketing, you wouldn't have to be doing that minging Indian Restaurant Carpet! (a good thing i'd say!) ;D
Dave.
-
Colin,
Back in the old days, Raccine Industries (HOST) would clean something like that minger to prove a point.
Yes you can do it but the cost of materials (HOST sponges) and the time taken would mean it was totally uneconomic.
It's horses for courses.
-
my test would be could a 'dry' cleaner get a minging indian restaurant carpet clean, sorry, but i don't think so. i struggled last week to get an indian carpet clean with 500psi, much more than i would usually use and REALLY hot rinse, sorry but i would love to have seen that dry cleaned,
colin
There are limitations to all systems
HWE is not 'Jesus in a bottle'
Martin 8)
the dry guy
-
ok then, but by definition surely carpet cleaning by granules can not be as good as hwe. with hwe i can clean 99% of carpets no-matter how bad they are, can the same be said for granules?
colin
-
Colin, that word DRY is magical. Chem Dry have built a billion dollar business on it and it isn't even a dry system.
I have a lot of customers who only use bonnets or granules or both, they are all succesfull. They do walk away from mingers but wouldn't you like to clean resonably clean carpets all the time.
The local franchise I was talking about have a really clued up guy who runs it, he is going places, fast. I am gob-smacked at some of the marketing ideas he comes up with. I can't share that unfortunately as it would be a breach of confidence.
-
Yes, that's what got me thinking about it, and raising this topic. We have a couple of 'Bone-Dry' and 'Zero Dry Time' franchises that I'm aware of here in the North East and they appear to be doing well. They have a heck of an internet presence and Adword impression rate (don't know about clicks obviously). Before I set up independently (doing HWE, Bonnet and Dry C), I was very interested in a Zero Dry Time franchise but all of their North East territories were already taken. :)
-
We have a dry cleaning franchise here in stockport and he is also clued up on marketing and does get a lots of work too..
-
A lot of mentions that the 'dry cleaners' are really up to first rate marketing. I wonder why that is necessary ;) - and what the cost of that is. Hesitate to think what their bottom line is compared to HWE
-
So
people attack dry carpet cleaners because they use a different system and now you attack their marketing without even knowing what it is...
Score.
-
Martin - why so defensive. I was only asking a couple of straight forward questions.
I'm not anti lm cleaning - use it myself from time to time when required. Just appeared from the above posts that those who used it in the majority of cases seem to have extensive marketing requirements
-
A lot of mentions that the 'dry cleaners' are really up to first rate marketing. I wonder why that is necessary - and what the cost of that is.
I would imagine that the cost of good advertising is FREE, if it brings enough business in.
I trained under a copywriter who has charged as much as $ 25,000 for a single salesletter. If it brings in the best part of half a million in sales, then surely the cost is negligible?
-
I totally agree Garry - if the figures you mention are in proportion to what lm operators bring in, in this country ( noted you referred to $s) - then great. I'm just slightly suspect that that holds for the UK
-
I mentioned dollars because the "piece" in question was a web based promotion (non cleaning related - internet marketing actually) aimed predominantly at the US market.
Personally, I have HWE, Dry Fusion AND HOST.
I've always found the dry service to be easier to market because having a dry carpet was always near the top of the wish list.
Garry
-
Just appeared from the above posts that those who used it in the majority of cases seem to have extensive marketing requirements
I don't think it's that the dry operators have 'extensive marketing requirements', I suspect it's that they have extensive marketing focus.
How many large franchises, with a strong marketing support & exterise operate on dry only methods; Bone-Dry, Zero Dry Time, OneMinuteDry, etc, etc ........ now how many large frachise companies are you aware of that use HWE? ....... ummmm, not many. All I mean by this is that arguably, these dry operators have access to stronger and better marketing techniques that the average joe working alone with a HWE set-up. So arguably (and as a generalism) the dry guys are better at marketing.
Not a bash at HWE; yes I was tempted by the dry route only but mainly because of some 'grass is greener' fastasy that it'd be a simpler life. However after doing a back breaking Envirodri Dry Compound job this week, and 2 lovely HWE jobs that came up fab, I've realised I actually enjoy the variety. I truly believe that the 'easiest' form of carpeting cleaning in terms of humping equipment & chems, set up time and effort, and operation itself, is :- Bonnet cleaning - by a mile! But I don't see a business for me personally, just offering bonnet cleaning. Dry Compound cleaning is hard work and very messy. It took me an hour to clean my envirodri after the job this week (mainly because the rods jammed!).
-
Cleaning two halves of a carpet, one side with the Dry method and the other with HWE, it is not surprising that the Dry side had a better appearance. Carpets cleaned by HWE do not always look bright when finished but their appearance can improve dramatically as they dry.
The last time I used the Host method on a commercial low profiled large area, no matter how much I vacuumed, I still left the job looking like the Sahara desert.
Dave.
-
mr rogers i'm aware of 4, chemdry, servicemaster, homeserve(i think thats what there called) and hydro dynamics. one more than your aware of with dry, which by the way, ive only heard of one, bone dry.
not sure what the arguements about but thought i'd answer your question.
so
dry 3
hwe 4
;D
-
roger i'm aware of 4, chemdry, servicemaster, homeserve(i think thats what there called) and hydro dynamics. one more than your aware of with dry, which by the way, ive only heard of one, bone dry.
not sure what the arguements about but thought i'd answer your question.
so
dry 3
hwe 4
;D
Home serve was part of Chemdry , now Chemdry has been bought out by management , Homeserve has changed its name to Evander
-
Rainbow international, serviceMaster, safeClean, the cleaning doctor (the Irish one but has branchs in the UK) Thats four large franchise HWE operators off the top of my heed...
Who are Bone-Dry, Zero Dry Time, OneMinuteDry??? Never heard of them in my puff!! :)
As for dry cleaning people being better marketers... whatever Trevor!
I think the main reason why they might have a slight edge is because they are desperate to find clean carpet to clean on a regulary basis as they need to find the money to pay the hefty franchise royalty every week or month lol But seriously this is true!
I think someone on here mentioned that the Chempoope 6 day course invloved one day of practical and 5 days marketing!
You've also got to remember that finding high paying customers with clean carpets (i.e. selling the health benefits etc) is COSTLY!! so after thier fanchise fee's and heavy marketing costs, i wonder how succesfuly they are.... Anyone can be a marketing genius when they spend a furtune on AdWords, glossy brochures, BIG yellow pages ads, promo pens etc etc :)
Tony
-
One of my commercial cleaning contract insisted on dry cleaning as per the spec from manufacture, it wasn’t until they had a flood and noticed amount of crap floating, trying too up the vacuum cleaning schedule as recommend by you know by who, all methods have the place, any one in Hayes Middlesex tomorrow will show how to price muck spreading with a 20quid machine :D
-
Rainbow international, serviceMaster, safeClean, the cleaning doctor (the Irish one but has branchs in the UK) Thats four large franchise HWE operators off the top of my heed...
Who are Bone-Dry, Zero Dry Time, OneMinuteDry??? Never heard of them in my puff!! :)
As for dry cleaning people being better marketers... whatever Trevor!
I think the main reason why they might have a slight edge is because they are desperate to find clean carpet to clean on a regulary basis as they need to find the money to pay the hefty franchise royalty every week or month lol But seriously this is true!
I think someone on here mentioned that the Chempoope 6 day course invloved one day of practical and 5 days marketing!
You've also got to remember that finding high paying customers with clean carpets (i.e. selling the health benefits etc) is COSTLY!! so after thier fanchise fee's and heavy marketing costs, i wonder how succesfuly they are.... Anyone can be a marketing genius when they spend a furtune on AdWords, glossy brochures, BIG yellow pages ads, promo pens etc etc :)
Tony
Many of those 'HWE' franchses you listed use bonnet cleaning. Cleaning Doctor certainly does; Dry Fusion I believe. If you don't know who any of those dry franchises are, get googling, it's not healthy being ignorant to your competition.
-
roger i'm aware of 4, chemdry, servicemaster, homeserve(i think thats what there called) and hydro dynamics. one more than your aware of with dry, which by the way, ive only heard of one, bone dry.
not sure what the arguements about but thought i'd answer your question.
so
dry 3
hwe 4
;D
Well all I can say is.... "who the F's Roger??" ???
;D
-
oops sorry mr rogers, thats what i meant, :-[
-
;D
-
Carpet cleaning as well as most other businesses is all about marketing. ChemDry near me do 30k a month just on carpet cleaning.
-
Anyone can be a marketing genius when they spend a furtune on AdWords, glossy brochures, BIG yellow pages ads, promo pens etc etc
Only if they know what they are doing when it comes to marketing.
-
Many of those 'HWE' franchses you listed use bonnet cleaning. Cleaning Doctor certainly does; Dry Fusion I believe. If you don't know who any of those dry franchises are, get googling, it's not healthy being ignorant to your competition.
Since none of those companys that you mentioned (the ones i have never heard of...) are near me i.e the whole of Scotland!! Then i dont have to worry about googling them :) And if they are near me then they are not very good at marketing! lol
Anyone can be a marketing genius when they spend a furtune on AdWords, glossy brochures, BIG yellow pages ads, promo pens etc etc
Only if they know what they are doing when it comes to marketing.
Again this is where the 5 day intensive marketing course that they do comes in to play..That they pay 30 grand for.
I'm sure there's alot of successful chemdry set ups but i'm also sure there's alot of ones struggling. Infact i know of two, one near me ish and one down south, both of which sold up after a year and half.
Not having a go at lm cleaning methods or franchises (ok maybe i am lol) but just dont like all this talk of dry cleaning people or/and franchise people being better at marketing! Myth No1
-
David Rogers
The wet V dry debate has been going on in the 7 years I have been cleaning and will go on long after I am out of it.
Do what's best for you and your business whether it's wet or dry or both.
I try to stay out of these wet & dry slagging matches, as that's all they become.
Good luck for your future.
Regards
Martin 8)
-
Thanks Martin, I think your're right.
Don't know where the anger comes from (in some)!
I'm personally aiming my future marketing towards dry and low moisture because I think it's where the future of the industry lies.
I find that using a hand held extractor (like the prochem spot pro) for the bad spots and stains, in conjunction with dry compound or encapsulation is an excellent allround approach to getting results that people will be happy.
The debates on whether dry is really deep cleaning are completely moot; all that really matters is whether the customer is happy with the service you've provided.
-
Hi Guys
I don't think it is a moot point, are we just followers or do we lead our industry.
I have never heard a regular TM user describe dry as 'as good' because it is not.
However I am a strong believer in using the appropriate tools and chemicals for the problem and that is why I continue to offer from TM to dry, the customer mostly relying on my judgement.
All manner of businesses carry different ranges of equipment to suit the varying tasks and our industry is no different.
Cheers
Doug
-
I don't disagree Doug, so the point is that I wouldn't offer a dry service on an occasion where I felt a TM was needed to achieve the result. However in situations where dry will give the customer what they want, then ............
all that really matters is whether the customer is happy with the service you've provided.
-
Hi Guys
Yes there are certainly situations where the customers prefences definitely make dry a serious consideration, I have one largish commercial customer who will only allow my LM cleaning on site.
I have branded myself through the Dry 60 website but must admit I haven't really pushed it as just too busy.
Cheers
Doug
-
Hi Doug,
I've looked at your sites a few times, and like what you've done with 'Dry60' ; it sounds really professional and as it has the key benefits in the title, people are immediately attracted to it.
I'm looking at ideas along those lines too; coming up with alternative marketing propositions that push the dry and LM sides of the market.
Cheers,
Dave
-
Hi Dave
Thanks for the compliment and it is one of the sites I am keen to do something with.
I would like to promote the slogan
Dry 60, carpets clean and dry in 60 minutes.
Cheers
doug