dazmond

  • Posts: 23601
£60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« on: September 02, 2017, 01:42:13 pm »
this is my new target for larger domestic jobs now.i have a few jobs that earn me these figures but their only an hour here and there during a typical working month.i am picking up more stand alone larger jobs and pricing them higher than i would of previously and over double the price some other local window cleaners charge.

as a one man lifestyle business there is only so much you can earn in any  given week/month/year without working weekends/longer days so this is my last push to earn more money for the same hours.i think im almost on the limit as to what i can earn without working harder now)(or employing which im not going to do!)

im happy with my earnings in general but dont want to rest on my laurels too much.im always pushing to earn that bit more year on year(which has been the case over the last 7 or 8 years).

what do you one man band guys do?the refining of our rounds never stops really does it?
price higher/work harder!

Stoots

  • Posts: 6064
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2017, 04:29:29 pm »
Mines only just reached what I would call somewhat/almost/nearly full. (Just edged past 300 custies)

Of course if you are a one man band you should be refining all the times otherwise it will just stagnate. But personally I think it will be easier and faster to get another van out than  spend years refining and looking for better work.

nathankaye

  • Posts: 5366
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2017, 06:04:28 pm »
For me im not interested in another van nor employing.
Im also happy with all the work i have. So not much refining work to be done for me but similar to you daz its just a case of of being confident when you charge for new work and getting the fair price that your after. So in that sense im refining my attitude as ive still walked away thinking i should have quoted more, on a couple of new jobs that ive recently picked up.
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paul alan

  • Posts: 1683
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2017, 06:39:48 pm »
Im nearly there with quantity, but will be watching for replies here to see what is regarded as quality.

Along with my wife l would aspire to earn £75 ph 4 hrs per day 4 days per week.

£1200 per week for 16 hrs.

Sometimes we can do this rate in certain places, mostly not.

It varies from day to day also, some days l just cant get into a flow. Things get in the way and some are unavoidable, customers are usualy the worst distraction. They just want to chat!!! Sometimes my anxiety levels hit the roof, lm stood there 3 houses ahead in my mind all set out with timing etc and theyre just going on and on. I try the "well we must dash as lve got to pick up the kids on time" and it goes right over their head.

 Your trying to find a break in the conversation to use a finishing line. its almost an art form to end the conversation without them being offended, nightmare. Happily it doesnt happen too much.

Hoses can be a time thief also.

Dissorganisation another one.

Having said all that some days can be a walk in the park, everything goes well and your hourly rate is acheived.

paul alan

  • Posts: 1683
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2017, 06:48:30 pm »
What kind of hours do you guys work?

Hours that are sustainable accounting for weather, we go for 16-20 hrs per week so that if realy pushed we have a buffer zone where we can still complete the work in the right week.

We also push fairly firmly, some days can be physicaly challenging especialy if going to 7-8hrs. Im not sure l would want to work7-8hrs on a daily basis. I mean lm in good health and in good shape but if working long hard hours long term all that could change.

I am entertaing the idea of employing part time small small but l would also like to know what can be achieved on our own so l can weigh up the best way forward.

nathankaye

  • Posts: 5366
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2017, 07:53:54 pm »
This is why i get angry when accused of splash n dash poor quality etc etc. Because im not racing around each day or each week.

Ive been doing  this for many yrs (which i keep harping on about) and have established rounds. The advantage that gives me is that i have compact rounds segmented per week. So as long as i get the weeks allocated work done then im happy.
How its been for last several months is;
Week 1 is my smallest round that if i raced round as in no breaks and no chatting would be done in a day n half. So that gives me many days that week to play with either for add on jobs or family time or even any overflow from the proceeding week.  Mostly its 2 days or i can drag it out for three depending my mood.

Week 2 is my largest round which can be done comfortably in 4 days but again depending mood i have that 5th day to play with.

Week 3 i do 3 rounds which take between 1.5 - 2 days each.

Week 4 is the last part of my entire round which steadily gets done by wed or by working solid it would be complete by tue.

Im mostly helping with my young family in a morning and so not setting off till 9am and im mostly back home by 4 or half four at the latest.

With having the set work, i earn x amount per month. The day rate to me is irrelevant  as it depends how i feel, but provided it all gets in the bank by end of the month i dont pay attention to hourly rates. Because as you rightly mentioned this can fluctuate. I have houses as cheap as £8 per clean (before i set the 10 min charge) up untill £50 - £90.......so dont really get hung up on those details n dont drive you n your wife into the ground worrying overly much
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CleanClear

  • Posts: 14238
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2017, 08:27:03 pm »
Im nearly there with quantity, but will be watching for replies here to see what is regarded as quality.

Along with my wife l would aspire to earn £75 ph 4 hrs per day 4 days per week.

£1200 per week for 16 hrs.

Sometimes we can do this rate in certain places, mostly not.

It varies from day to day also, some days l just cant get into a flow. Things get in the way and some are unavoidable, customers are usualy the worst distraction. They just want to chat!!! Sometimes my anxiety levels hit the roof, lm stood there 3 houses ahead in my mind all set out with timing etc and theyre just going on and on. I try the "well we must dash as lve got to pick up the kids on time" and it goes right over their head.

 Your trying to find a break in the conversation to use a finishing line. its almost an art form to end the conversation without them being offended, nightmare. Happily it doesnt happen too much.

Hoses can be a time thief also.

Dissorganisation another one.

Having said all that some days can be a walk in the park, everything goes well and your hourly rate is acheived.

I'd guess if you have quality then you won't be bothered about someone chatting for a bit and interupting your 16 hours week and putting you out ?
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paul alan

  • Posts: 1683
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2017, 08:34:12 pm »
Im nearly there with quantity, but will be watching for replies here to see what is regarded as quality.

Along with my wife l would aspire to earn £75 ph 4 hrs per day 4 days per week.

£1200 per week for 16 hrs.

Sometimes we can do this rate in certain places, mostly not.

It varies from day to day also, some days l just cant get into a flow. Things get in the way and some are unavoidable, customers are usualy the worst distraction. They just want to chat!!! Sometimes my anxiety levels hit the roof, lm stood there 3 houses ahead in my mind all set out with timing etc and theyre just going on and on. I try the "well we must dash as lve got to pick up the kids on time" and it goes right over their head.

 Your trying to find a break in the conversation to use a finishing line. its almost an art form to end the conversation without them being offended, nightmare. Happily it doesnt happen too much.

Hoses can be a time thief also.

Dissorganisation another one.

Having said all that some days can be a walk in the park, everything goes well and your hourly rate is acheived.

I'd guess if you have quality then you won't be bothered about someone chatting for a bit and interupting your 16 hours week and putting you out ?
I think you may have mis-read my post????

I nearly have quantity and am still aspiring for quality.

CleanClear

  • Posts: 14238
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2017, 08:44:26 pm »
Im nearly there with quantity, but will be watching for replies here to see what is regarded as quality.

Along with my wife l would aspire to earn £75 ph 4 hrs per day 4 days per week.

£1200 per week for 16 hrs.

Sometimes we can do this rate in certain places, mostly not.

It varies from day to day also, some days l just cant get into a flow. Things get in the way and some are unavoidable, customers are usualy the worst distraction. They just want to chat!!! Sometimes my anxiety levels hit the roof, lm stood there 3 houses ahead in my mind all set out with timing etc and theyre just going on and on. I try the "well we must dash as lve got to pick up the kids on time" and it goes right over their head.

 Your trying to find a break in the conversation to use a finishing line. its almost an art form to end the conversation without them being offended, nightmare. Happily it doesnt happen too much.

Hoses can be a time thief also.

Dissorganisation another one.

Having said all that some days can be a walk in the park, everything goes well and your hourly rate is acheived.

I'd guess if you have quality then you won't be bothered about someone chatting for a bit and interupting your 16 hours week and putting you out ?
I think you may have mis-read my post????

I nearly have quantity and am still aspiring for quality.

Sorry, you're correct. Sift through the chatters and get rid of them. Then they won't impinge on your hourly rate.
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JandS

  • Posts: 4239
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2017, 09:02:15 pm »
Some people make an easy job hard... ;D
Impossible done straight away, miracles can take a little longer.

CleanClear

  • Posts: 14238
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2017, 09:06:58 pm »
Some people make an easy job hard... ;D

You mean the custys or the windys ? !     ;D
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Mick Kent

  • Posts: 1380
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2017, 10:28:21 pm »
Your all missing a trick!
4 weekly Compact £10 terrace fronts! Can do 8-10 an hour every hour all day long. Licence to print money!

 

dazmond

  • Posts: 23601
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2017, 07:51:04 am »
Your all missing a trick!
4 weekly Compact £10 terrace fronts! Can do 8-10 an hour every hour all day long. Licence to print money!

us up north wouldnt get away with charging £10 for fronts only.obviously down south they have a totally different economy(most things are twice as expensive) so £10 is probably a fair price.
price higher/work harder!

dazmond

  • Posts: 23601
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2017, 08:14:12 am »
Im nearly there with quantity, but will be watching for replies here to see what is regarded as quality.

Along with my wife l would aspire to earn £75 ph 4 hrs per day 4 days per week.

£1200 per week for 16 hrs.

Sometimes we can do this rate in certain places, mostly not.

It varies from day to day also, some days l just cant get into a flow. Things get in the way and some are unavoidable, customers are usualy the worst distraction. They just want to chat!!! Sometimes my anxiety levels hit the roof, lm stood there 3 houses ahead in my mind all set out with timing etc and theyre just going on and on. I try the "well we must dash as lve got to pick up the kids on time" and it goes right over their head.

 Your trying to find a break in the conversation to use a finishing line. its almost an art form to end the conversation without them being offended, nightmare. Happily it doesnt happen too much.

Hoses can be a time thief also.

Dissorganisation another one.

Having said all that some days can be a walk in the park, everything goes well and your hourly rate is acheived.

im never disorganised so thats not an issue in my day to day working life.

some customers do keep me talking occasionally but its only the odd 5 mins here and there and is usually accompanied with a nice cup of coffee so i dont mind.if anything it helps my day along.

snagging of hoses is part and parcel of the job on occasions.

i usually do more than 4 hours a day.my average is around 6 hours a day 4 or 5 days a week.
price higher/work harder!

dazmond

  • Posts: 23601
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2017, 08:34:49 am »
Mines only just reached what I would call somewhat/almost/nearly full. (Just edged past 300 custies)

Of course if you are a one man band you should be refining all the times otherwise it will just stagnate. But personally I think it will be easier and faster to get another van out than  spend years refining and looking for better work.

the thing is adam you need double the work you ve got now and a decent honest worker to earn more money.it wont be easier thats for sure.

its far easier to stay on your own and refine your work over time without the hassle of employing and all the stress and faffing about that comes with it.not to mention the extra overheads,wages,etc,etc.

 the extra £22,000-£23,000 i earn a year compared to 7 years ago has come from price rises,new work ive picked up mainly from recommendation and word of mouth and the odd bit of canvassing/leafleting.

ive virtually had to do nothing to gain better paying work apart from cleaning my regular work to a good standard and on time.

depends what you want and how you want to live your life.i dont handle stress very well so i try and keep it to a minimum.employing would just add to the stress/hassle for me plus i dont trust other people when it comes to work/money.
price higher/work harder!

paul alan

  • Posts: 1683
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2017, 09:10:03 am »
Some of our customers are actually quite interesting, some just aint!

Another good point dazmond, I'm neither trusting nor tolerant .

I do suppose it would be nice to have someone trained up to help out if we needed some time off or something or maybe to do a bit of extra work but then finding someone to be willing to do that and be up to standard could be a task.

Just see how things turn out, I'm ok with the current situation.

Mick has given me some food for thought there though........!

dazmond

  • Posts: 23601
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2017, 09:14:02 am »
This is why i get angry when accused of splash n dash poor quality etc etc. Because im not racing around each day or each week.

Ive been doing  this for many yrs (which i keep harping on about) and have established rounds. The advantage that gives me is that i have compact rounds segmented per week. So as long as i get the weeks allocated work done then im happy.
How its been for last several months is;
Week 1 is my smallest round that if i raced round as in no breaks and no chatting would be done in a day n half. So that gives me many days that week to play with either for add on jobs or family time or even any overflow from the proceeding week.  Mostly its 2 days or i can drag it out for three depending my mood.

Week 2 is my largest round which can be done comfortably in 4 days but again depending mood i have that 5th day to play with.

Week 3 i do 3 rounds which take between 1.5 - 2 days each.

Week 4 is the last part of my entire round which steadily gets done by wed or by working solid it would be complete by tue.

Im mostly helping with my young family in a morning and so not setting off till 9am and im mostly back home by 4 or half four at the latest.

With having the set work, i earn x amount per month. The day rate to me is irrelevant  as it depends how i feel, but provided it all gets in the bank by end of the month i dont pay attention to hourly rates. Because as you rightly mentioned this can fluctuate. I have houses as cheap as £8 per clean (before i set the 10 min charge) up untill £50 - £90.......so dont really get hung up on those details n dont drive you n your wife into the ground worrying overly much

you still must  be pushing it to clean 15 houses in 2 hours.why are you faster than lots of other window cleaners that have been cleaning for years too?

3 or 4 three bed semis  an hour (if their all compact)going at a steady pace cleaning all sills,doors,frames as well as glass is the norm.maybe 5 if pushing it a bit but 7 or 8 in an hour?corners are well and truly being cut somewhere mate.
price higher/work harder!

dazmond

  • Posts: 23601
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2017, 09:30:32 am »
Some of our customers are actually quite interesting, some just aint!

Another good point dazmond, I'm neither trusting nor tolerant .

I do suppose it would be nice to have someone trained up to help out if we needed some time off or something or maybe to do a bit of extra work but then finding someone to be willing to do that and be up to standard could be a task.

Just see how things turn out, I'm ok with the current situation.

Mick has given me some food for thought there though........!

taking a week off here and there is no problem.i just move my work schedule forward a week or two.customers are fine with this and i earn enough money when im working to afford time off no problem.

im off to egypt at the end of the month(yep 5 star (adults only) hotel for me and the missus!) for a week.a well deserved holiday.i also have 2 weeks off at xmas,usually another holiday abroad during the year and i sometimes just take a week off to do a bit of DIY in the flat or to simply have a break and recharge my batteries.

i very rarely get behind schedule due to bad weather as i virtually work in all bad weather throughout the year.i have a healthy "emergency fund" too if the worst comes to the worst and i cant work due to snow/ice etc(like winter 2010!)but even then i find i can usually keep ticking over working a reduced shorter working day.
price higher/work harder!

Slacky

  • Posts: 7678
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2017, 09:35:00 am »
Where in Egypt are you going Daz?

I'm off to El-Gouna end of the month. 15 miles from Hurghada?

dazmond

  • Posts: 23601
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2017, 09:49:41 am »
Where in Egypt are you going Daz?

I'm off to El-Gouna end of the month. 15 miles from Hurghada?

hurghada but further down the coast(sahl hasheesh)premier le reve hotel.one of the best hotels in egypt!(allegedly!) :)
price higher/work harder!

Stoots

  • Posts: 6064
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2017, 10:26:35 am »
Mines only just reached what I would call somewhat/almost/nearly full. (Just edged past 300 custies)

Of course if you are a one man band you should be refining all the times otherwise it will just stagnate. But personally I think it will be easier and faster to get another van out than  spend years refining and looking for better work.

the thing is adam you need double the work you ve got now and a decent honest worker to earn more money.it wont be easier thats for sure.

its far easier to stay on your own and refine your work over time without the hassle of employing and all the stress and faffing about that comes with it.not to mention the extra overheads,wages,etc,etc.

 the extra £22,000-£23,000 i earn a year compared to 7 years ago has come from price rises,new work ive picked up mainly from recommendation and word of mouth and the odd bit of canvassing/leafleting.

ive virtually had to do nothing to gain better paying work apart from cleaning my regular work to a good standard and on time.

depends what you want and how you want to live your life.i dont handle stress very well so i try and keep it to a minimum.employing would just add to the stress/hassle for me plus i dont trust other people when it comes to work/money.

Heres the thing for me though.

I dont think I want to be cleaning windows 4-5 days a week (I say think as we can all change our minds over the years) for the next 30 years (I'm 35 now).  I just think there is potential to get more out of this game than that.

The way I'm looking at it at the minute is a could have 2 vans out doing 80k a year turnover leaving me with 40k pre tax profit which is about the same as me working solo 30 hours a week.  The only thing I would have to do is the admin side of things and fill in for sick days or hols etc. Or I could work a couple of days a week in one of the vans or get a third van or whatever really.

I dont think I would want a massive fleet just keep it under vat and make an efficient small operation that gives me maximum freedom.

Another option then available would be to look at a different unrelated business venture to avoid going into vat.

I suppose I have realised through starting out in this business it is the business side of things I really enjoy, I want good money but also a good amount of freedom. I certainly don't want to be doing physical graft everyday until retirement.

Also 7 years to get an extra 20k is a long time, that's probably one employee with a full round for him. Could be done in 2 years or less.

dazmond

  • Posts: 23601
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2017, 10:36:40 am »
i see working 4 or 5 days a week freedom adam esp only working around 6 hours a day!(some times less!)as i used to work 60 hour weeks years ago.

i like to work and keep busy and my take home pay is usually over 30k a year after ALL expenses,taxes and insurances have been deducted(although i think itll be a bit less this year).im happy with that.
price higher/work harder!

Stoots

  • Posts: 6064
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2017, 10:47:43 am »
i see working 4 or 5 days a week freedom adam esp only working around 6 hours a day!(some times less!)as i used to work 60 hour weeks years ago.

i like to work and keep busy and my take home pay is usually over 30k a year after ALL expenses,taxes and insurances have been deducted(although i think itll be a bit less this year).im happy with that.

See I don't think it is.

It's certainly more freedom than being employed but in order to keep your customers and earn your money you still have to go out and work 5-6 hours a day week in week out whether you like it or not. That's not freedom really, I think we get a false sense of it being self employed but in reality if we stop the whole thing stops.

Its not a bad life though is it.

I think I'm motivated more by freedom than I am money. Graft my arse of everyday for a million a year or have 100k a year and not have to lift a finger I'd take the 100k. Would rather have the spare time to spend with family, hobby's and holidays etc. Of course you need certain level of income to do that and a certain amount of work to keep you sanity but it's having options that is motivating to me. Self employment is good but it's still slavery.

 8)

jo5hm4n

  • Posts: 943
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2017, 11:50:04 am »
I aim for Around £40 min per hour with £250 as daily minimum, some hours i hit £60 per hour but only on really good compact work, which i dont have alot of.  For me its about constantly dissolving the bottom as you raise the top.  Getting rid of spaced out low payers or awkward jobs and slowly and steadily replacing with higher priced compacted good quality customers.  The goal is to eventually have a fully compacted full business turning over £50-£60 every hour.

Difficult though as i dont have the time to canvas really anymore, i'm training up a canvasser hes only done a few hours for me so its early stages at present.

Good to see how everybody else is trying to constantly improve and progress their business forward, i know for myself there is areas i can be constantly improving in.  This in itself is good for you, because bettering yourself stops you from getting in a rut and getting bored.  Always try to improve everything you do in all aspects of your life.

"Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there."

dazmond

  • Posts: 23601
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2017, 12:14:02 pm »
i see working 4 or 5 days a week freedom adam esp only working around 6 hours a day!(some times less!)as i used to work 60 hour weeks years ago.

i like to work and keep busy and my take home pay is usually over 30k a year after ALL expenses,taxes and insurances have been deducted(although i think itll be a bit less this year).im happy with that.

See I don't think it is.

It's certainly more freedom than being employed but in order to keep your customers and earn your money you still have to go out and work 5-6 hours a day week in week out whether you like it or not. That's not freedom really, I think we get a false sense of it being self employed but in reality if we stop the whole thing stops.

Its not a bad life though is it.

I think I'm motivated more by freedom than I am money. Graft my arse of everyday for a million a year or have 100k a year and not have to lift a finger I'd take the 100k. Would rather have the spare time to spend with family, hobby's and holidays etc. Of course you need certain level of income to do that and a certain amount of work to keep you sanity but it's having options that is motivating to me. Self employment is good but it's still slavery.

 8)

I still have plenty of time for hobbies (gym and playing drums in a band)plus taking the missus out! ;)
price higher/work harder!

nathankaye

  • Posts: 5366
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2017, 02:09:59 pm »
This is why i get angry when accused of splash n dash poor quality etc etc. Because im not racing around each day or each week.

Ive been doing  this for many yrs (which i keep harping on about) and have established rounds. The advantage that gives me is that i have compact rounds segmented per week. So as long as i get the weeks allocated work done then im happy.
How its been for last several months is;
Week 1 is my smallest round that if i raced round as in no breaks and no chatting would be done in a day n half. So that gives me many days that week to play with either for add on jobs or family time or even any overflow from the proceeding week.  Mostly its 2 days or i can drag it out for three depending my mood.

Week 2 is my largest round which can be done comfortably in 4 days but again depending mood i have that 5th day to play with.

Week 3 i do 3 rounds which take between 1.5 - 2 days each.

Week 4 is the last part of my entire round which steadily gets done by wed or by working solid it would be complete by tue.

Im mostly helping with my young family in a morning and so not setting off till 9am and im mostly back home by 4 or half four at the latest.

With having the set work, i earn x amount per month. The day rate to me is irrelevant  as it depends how i feel, but provided it all gets in the bank by end of the month i dont pay attention to hourly rates. Because as you rightly mentioned this can fluctuate. I have houses as cheap as £8 per clean (before i set the 10 min charge) up untill £50 - £90.......so dont really get hung up on those details n dont drive you n your wife into the ground worrying overly much

you still must  be pushing it to clean 15 houses in 2 hours.why are you faster than lots of other window cleaners that have been cleaning for years too?

3 or 4 three bed semis  an hour (if their all compact)going at a steady pace cleaning all sills,doors,frames as well as glass is the norm.maybe 5 if pushing it a bit but 7 or 8 in an hour?corners are well and truly being cut somewhere mate.

Daz i would agree with you. On the houses your using in the example i would say i clean about 4.5 an hour, which my rounds allow for.
I dont understand how its hard to understand how i couldnt clean 15 hours from the video which i mentioned 15 houses as i showed the houses i was cleaning. Lol im on that part this tuesday (5th sep) and im half wondering about showing a vid or a vid of a house before and after cleaning. Because as iv pointed out many a times, these houses have virtually no obstructions, ie open double drives so i can easily walk round two houses with ease!!  Its a small cul de sac and so its very compact indeed and ive cleaned it for 15yrs, so i know the best route to tackle the houses (ie how many to clean this side before i cross over for the other side etc).   I also dont clean the frames every time for the sake of cleaning them, because my frames dont require it every 4 weeks. Obviously the ones which do, obviously get cleaned!!   No they are not bad with cobwebs or spider poo or the like!! hence why i might do a vid showing the windows before the clean and after.

Also its only this cul de sac where i clean as many houses in a short time. But then the estate i clean from that is less than a minute away and are slightly bigger in size but they have boundary fences n gates etc and so i clean about 4 or 5 an hour (by time im knocking off its about four per hour). So on this day i clean way more than 30 houses in a day!!

(Let the insults n disbelieve begin)
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Dry Clean

  • Posts: 8545
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2017, 05:01:54 pm »
This is why i get angry when accused of splash n dash poor quality etc etc. Because im not racing around each day or each week.

Ive been doing  this for many yrs (which i keep harping on about) and have established rounds. The advantage that gives me is that i have compact rounds segmented per week. So as long as i get the weeks allocated work done then im happy.
How its been for last several months is;
Week 1 is my smallest round that if i raced round as in no breaks and no chatting would be done in a day n half. So that gives me many days that week to play with either for add on jobs or family time or even any overflow from the proceeding week.  Mostly its 2 days or i can drag it out for three depending my mood.

Week 2 is my largest round which can be done comfortably in 4 days but again depending mood i have that 5th day to play with.

Week 3 i do 3 rounds which take between 1.5 - 2 days each.

Week 4 is the last part of my entire round which steadily gets done by wed or by working solid it would be complete by tue.

Im mostly helping with my young family in a morning and so not setting off till 9am and im mostly back home by 4 or half four at the latest.

With having the set work, i earn x amount per month. The day rate to me is irrelevant  as it depends how i feel, but provided it all gets in the bank by end of the month i dont pay attention to hourly rates. Because as you rightly mentioned this can fluctuate. I have houses as cheap as £8 per clean (before i set the 10 min charge) up untill £50 - £90.......so dont really get hung up on those details n dont drive you n your wife into the ground worrying overly much

you still must  be pushing it to clean 15 houses in 2 hours.why are you faster than lots of other window cleaners that have been cleaning for years too?

3 or 4 three bed semis  an hour (if their all compact)going at a steady pace cleaning all sills,doors,frames as well as glass is the norm.maybe 5 if pushing it a bit but 7 or 8 in an hour?corners are well and truly being cut somewhere mate.

Daz i would agree with you. On the houses your using in the example i would say i clean about 4.5 an hour, which my rounds allow for.
I dont understand how its hard to understand how i couldnt clean 15 hours from the video which i mentioned 15 houses as i showed the houses i was cleaning. Lol im on that part this tuesday (5th sep) and im half wondering about showing a vid or a vid of a house before and after cleaning. Because as iv pointed out many a times, these houses have virtually no obstructions, ie open double drives so i can easily walk round two houses with ease!!  Its a small cul de sac and so its very compact indeed and ive cleaned it for 15yrs, so i know the best route to tackle the houses (ie how many to clean this side before i cross over for the other side etc).   I also dont clean the frames every time for the sake of cleaning them, because my frames dont require it every 4 weeks. Obviously the ones which do, obviously get cleaned!!   No they are not bad with cobwebs or spider poo or the like!! hence why i might do a vid showing the windows before the clean and after.

Also its only this cul de sac where i clean as many houses in a short time. But then the estate i clean from that is less than a minute away and are slightly bigger in size but they have boundary fences n gates etc and so i clean about 4 or 5 an hour (by time im knocking off its about four per hour). So on this day i clean way more than 30 houses in a day!!

(Let the insults n disbelieve begin)

You need to keep track on what your saying Nathan, 30 to 35 properties a day in 5 or so hours is the norm for you since using hot
that even allows time for the odd Toby's and a pint, before hot it took you a full day.
Your only getting your own words thrown back at you.

nathankaye

  • Posts: 5366
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2017, 06:05:30 pm »
This is why i get angry when accused of splash n dash poor quality etc etc. Because im not racing around each day or each week.

Ive been doing  this for many yrs (which i keep harping on about) and have established rounds. The advantage that gives me is that i have compact rounds segmented per week. So as long as i get the weeks allocated work done then im happy.
How its been for last several months is;
Week 1 is my smallest round that if i raced round as in no breaks and no chatting would be done in a day n half. So that gives me many days that week to play with either for add on jobs or family time or even any overflow from the proceeding week.  Mostly its 2 days or i can drag it out for three depending my mood.

Week 2 is my largest round which can be done comfortably in 4 days but again depending mood i have that 5th day to play with.

Week 3 i do 3 rounds which take between 1.5 - 2 days each.

Week 4 is the last part of my entire round which steadily gets done by wed or by working solid it would be complete by tue.

Im mostly helping with my young family in a morning and so not setting off till 9am and im mostly back home by 4 or half four at the latest.

With having the set work, i earn x amount per month. The day rate to me is irrelevant  as it depends how i feel, but provided it all gets in the bank by end of the month i dont pay attention to hourly rates. Because as you rightly mentioned this can fluctuate. I have houses as cheap as £8 per clean (before i set the 10 min charge) up untill £50 - £90.......so dont really get hung up on those details n dont drive you n your wife into the ground worrying overly much

you still must  be pushing it to clean 15 houses in 2 hours.why are you faster than lots of other window cleaners that have been cleaning for years too?

3 or 4 three bed semis  an hour (if their all compact)going at a steady pace cleaning all sills,doors,frames as well as glass is the norm.maybe 5 if pushing it a bit but 7 or 8 in an hour?corners are well and truly being cut somewhere mate.

Daz i would agree with you. On the houses your using in the example i would say i clean about 4.5 an hour, which my rounds allow for.
I dont understand how its hard to understand how i couldnt clean 15 hours from the video which i mentioned 15 houses as i showed the houses i was cleaning. Lol im on that part this tuesday (5th sep) and im half wondering about showing a vid or a vid of a house before and after cleaning. Because as iv pointed out many a times, these houses have virtually no obstructions, ie open double drives so i can easily walk round two houses with ease!!  Its a small cul de sac and so its very compact indeed and ive cleaned it for 15yrs, so i know the best route to tackle the houses (ie how many to clean this side before i cross over for the other side etc).   I also dont clean the frames every time for the sake of cleaning them, because my frames dont require it every 4 weeks. Obviously the ones which do, obviously get cleaned!!   No they are not bad with cobwebs or spider poo or the like!! hence why i might do a vid showing the windows before the clean and after.

Also its only this cul de sac where i clean as many houses in a short time. But then the estate i clean from that is less than a minute away and are slightly bigger in size but they have boundary fences n gates etc and so i clean about 4 or 5 an hour (by time im knocking off its about four per hour). So on this day i clean way more than 30 houses in a day!!

(Let the insults n disbelieve begin)

You need to keep track on what your saying Nathan, 30 to 35 properties a day in 5 or so hours is the norm for you since using hot
that even allows time for the odd Toby's and a pint, before hot it took you a full day.
Your only getting your own words thrown back at you.

Nope, in the above quotations i dont see anything thats contradicting.  Ive not claimed anywhere else of cleaning 15 houses in just over 2 hours have i apart from this round in question!!   I also mentioned im cleaning 4 - 5 houses per hour afterwards.  In many of the times i have spoken off, i mention i mostly start at 9 and finish anywhere betweeen 3 - 4.30  which gives 6hours or more pending the rounds that im on.
Also if you look at my first comment on thus thread it gives a little more details as to how i work.........or how if i want to do a video or break for lunch and grab a carvery i can do so!!   You can also see that there may be 2 wks in a month if i cant be bothered to work at my normal pace than it will be a full 5 days work but the remaining 2 weeks is somewhat different.
So no, unless ive missed something i cant see where my words are coming back to haunt me.

In addition i know chaps who only knock out maybe 3 houses of average size an hour and if they are happy with that, thats great.  I also belief someone on a different thread posted how they also have cleaned a good number of houses in a day which again highlights how it can be done.
Also anywhere in between is also ok, do i fully understand how some feel they have to flood a window or house before they are convinced of a quality clean. Or they feel that 3 or 5 agitations is better than 1 or 2 or that several rinses are better than one!!  No, thats for them to decide all ive ever said is experiment and find out for sure and push yourself to perfect your best.  Thats what i do and it works for me!! 

I dont particularly care, but my flaw is that i bite at how people feel if they cant do so and their quality suffers then everybody elses must as well. No additional thoughts are taken into account of all the variables which go into the arguement.
For instance; the video where my mic didnt work to well. Someone (cant recall who n cant be arsed to search) mentioned how the vid shows a 14inch brush n 6 jets doesnt work better than the standard 12 inch 2 jet brush. Because i used it side wards on....half on frame n half on glass. But 3 jets per half of brush, so frame n glass gets cleaned at the same time. Continuing down the glass, im effectively doing two passes in one go (if ones actually stop n think about it), then add into account i use hot water and a 5mpl pump at a flow rate of 80!! The water flow and spread is very similar to gardiners big fan jet vid which is doing its rounds on here.

Maybe im in a less polluted pocket than most or some other reason why, according to some i shouldnt have clean windows n frames every four weeks to what im claiming. Perhaps im not that cursed with bad luck as i thought   ;D
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Stoots

  • Posts: 6064
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2017, 08:18:12 pm »
I tend not to believe or dis believe anyone but myself when it comes to things like this.

I know from my own experience and experimentation how fast i can clean a house AND achieve a result im happy with. On the vast majority of my work  that seems to be about 3 houses an hour. With most of my round consisting of semis and small detatched.

I only have one street where i can do more than one house without moving the van though.

JandS

  • Posts: 4239
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2017, 08:31:18 pm »
I can go a good half day without moving van some days.
Impossible done straight away, miracles can take a little longer.

paul alan

  • Posts: 1683
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2017, 09:19:25 pm »
I havnt moved the van for 3 days

Tom-01

  • Posts: 1348
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2017, 06:49:41 am »
Mines only just reached what I would call somewhat/almost/nearly full. (Just edged past 300 custies)

Of course if you are a one man band you should be refining all the times otherwise it will just stagnate. But personally I think it will be easier and faster to get another van out than  spend years refining and looking for better work.

the thing is adam you need double the work you ve got now and a decent honest worker to earn more money.it wont be easier thats for sure.

its far easier to stay on your own and refine your work over time without the hassle of employing and all the stress and faffing about that comes with it.not to mention the extra overheads,wages,etc,etc.

 the extra £22,000-£23,000 i earn a year compared to 7 years ago has come from price rises,new work ive picked up mainly from recommendation and word of mouth and the odd bit of canvassing/leafleting.

ive virtually had to do nothing to gain better paying work apart from cleaning my regular work to a good standard and on time.

depends what you want and how you want to live your life.i dont handle stress very well so i try and keep it to a minimum.employing would just add to the stress/hassle for me plus i dont trust other people when it comes to work/money.

Heres the thing for me though.

I dont think I want to be cleaning windows 4-5 days a week (I say think as we can all change our minds over the years) for the next 30 years (I'm 35 now).  I just think there is potential to get more out of this game than that.

The way I'm looking at it at the minute is a could have 2 vans out doing 80k a year turnover leaving me with 40k pre tax profit which is about the same as me working solo 30 hours a week.  The only thing I would have to do is the admin side of things and fill in for sick days or hols etc. Or I could work a couple of days a week in one of the vans or get a third van or whatever really.

I dont think I would want a massive fleet just keep it under vat and make an efficient small operation that gives me maximum freedom.

Another option then available would be to look at a different unrelated business venture to avoid going into vat.

I suppose I have realised through starting out in this business it is the business side of things I really enjoy, I want good money but also a good amount of freedom. I certainly don't want to be doing physical graft everyday until retirement.

Also 7 years to get an extra 20k is a long time, that's probably one employee with a full round for him. Could be done in 2 years or less.

I think you may have underestimated the costs a bit there.. two vans, two sets of wages, two insurances, fuel, plus all other costs would cost more than £40k per year.

dazmond

  • Posts: 23601
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2017, 07:26:32 am »
i see working 4 or 5 days a week freedom adam esp only working around 6 hours a day!(some times less!)as i used to work 60 hour weeks years ago.

i like to work and keep busy and my take home pay is usually over 30k a year after ALL expenses,taxes and insurances have been deducted(although i think itll be a bit less this year).im happy with that.

See I don't think it is.

It's certainly more freedom than being employed but in order to keep your customers and earn your money you still have to go out and work 5-6 hours a day week in week out whether you like it or not. That's not freedom really, I think we get a false sense of it being self employed but in reality if we stop the whole thing stops.

Its not a bad life though is it.

I think I'm motivated more by freedom than I am money. Graft my arse of everyday for a million a year or have 100k a year and not have to lift a finger I'd take the 100k. Would rather have the spare time to spend with family, hobby's and holidays etc. Of course you need certain level of income to do that and a certain amount of work to keep you sanity but it's having options that is motivating to me. Self employment is good but it's still slavery.

 8)

the thing is mate me and you have totally different attitudes.so you want more time to spend with family,hobbies and holidays?how much time do you want with them if your only working 4 or 5 days a week for 5 or 6 hours a day?some people would love hours like that.

take a good look around you and other people and the jobs they do and hours they work.i consider myself very lucky indeed to be in the position im in.i love being a window cleaner even after 24 years of it as it allows me to live a  comfortable life with a good income.

im a grafter though.always have been.ive only been out of work for 10 months in 28 years of my working life.ill probably still be window cleaning when im 70 like a few other guys i know (albeit with less hours) ;D
price higher/work harder!

Mick Kent

  • Posts: 1380
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2017, 08:27:41 am »
Surely £60-80ph is the norm glass time anyway with wfp, cream work is £150/200ph
Thats how i find it anyway, if you cant clean 6 small terrace houses at £10 or 4 medium semis at £15 or even 3 large semis at £20 an hour then your doing something wrong?

Shrek

  • Posts: 3931
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2017, 08:29:24 am »
Surely £60-80ph is the norm glass time anyway with wfp, cream work is £150/200ph
Thats how i find it anyway, if you cant clean 6 small terrace houses at £10 or 4 medium semis at £15 or even 3 large semis at £20 an hour then your doing something wrong?

Hmmm .... it's a bit different up north

paul alan

  • Posts: 1683
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2017, 08:38:40 am »
I dunno, l think micks on cue.

paul alan

  • Posts: 1683
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2017, 08:45:44 am »
Roughly whats your modus operandis mick?

With regards cleaning technique?

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 8545
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2017, 09:09:03 am »
Surely £60-80ph is the norm glass time anyway with wfp, cream work is £150/200ph
Thats how i find it anyway, if you cant clean 6 small terrace houses at £10 or 4 medium semis at £15 or even 3 large semis at £20 an hour then your doing something wrong?

Off course you find that way (roll eyes) lack of available property in your area means you have very wealthy people living in shoe boxes and don't mind giving somebody a tenner for a few small windows in a terrace front.
Terrace properties in other parts of the country tend to be occupied by people who don't have any money, small semis would be
similar, medium and large semis can be hit and miss as they give you both people who have a few quid and new starters who are mortgaged to the hilt.
You then have the fact that its takes your prices to live and work in your area so your not going to get guys coming in and doing
your terrace fronts for £3 or guys doing an excellent job on large detached properties for £20.
Mick if I where you I would spend more time being thankful for what you have and less time trying to second guess
what guys are able to achieve in other parts of the country.





Stoots

  • Posts: 6064
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2017, 09:47:48 am »
Lol Mick  :D

30 quid an hour or so is good going where I am. See lads doing a lot less!

Mick Kent

  • Posts: 1380
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2017, 10:22:12 am »
Surely £60-80ph is the norm glass time anyway with wfp, cream work is £150/200ph
Thats how i find it anyway, if you cant clean 6 small terrace houses at £10 or 4 medium semis at £15 or even 3 large semis at £20 an hour then your doing something wrong?

Off course you find that way (roll eyes) lack of available property in your area means you have very wealthy people living in shoe boxes and don't mind giving somebody a tenner for a few small windows in a terrace front.
Terrace properties in other parts of the country tend to be occupied by people who don't have any money, small semis would be
similar, medium and large semis can be hit and miss as they give you both people who have a few quid and new starters who are mortgaged to the hilt.
You then have the fact that its takes your prices to live and work in your area so your not going to get guys coming in and doing
your terrace fronts for £3 or guys doing an excellent job on large detached properties for £20.
Mick if I where you I would spend more time being thankful for what you have and less time trying to second guess
what guys are able to achieve in other parts of the country.

Sorry but you view things the wrong way! are you not worth £10 to clean that front and back of a terrace house? For you to turn up on time every month keeping that customers windows clean and maintained being reliable and trustworthy throughout the year for them? Id say its more than worth a tenna
yes admittedly i do terrace fronts and purposely targeted those with no rear access to up my takings but i have been doing this for nearly 10 years and even so i think its still good value for my customers as they always have clean windows from a regular reliable service that i provide, even before doing mainly fronts i was charging £10 for a good 5/10 years doing front and backs on terrace houses.
I have also canvassed over the country for various guys too and can say that its how you sell yourself to get what you believe your worth, a positive person will get the prices he wants as wont take on any old work, can get good prices all over the country.
Yes there are house price differences north and south but we all pay the same for our food, fuel, cars, vans, holidays, clothes, etc etc so why should there be such a difference with window cleaning bills?

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 8545
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2017, 10:54:23 am »
Surely £60-80ph is the norm glass time anyway with wfp, cream work is £150/200ph
Thats how i find it anyway, if you cant clean 6 small terrace houses at £10 or 4 medium semis at £15 or even 3 large semis at £20 an hour then your doing something wrong?

Off course you find that way (roll eyes) lack of available property in your area means you have very wealthy people living in shoe boxes and don't mind giving somebody a tenner for a few small windows in a terrace front.
Terrace properties in other parts of the country tend to be occupied by people who don't have any money, small semis would be
similar, medium and large semis can be hit and miss as they give you both people who have a few quid and new starters who are mortgaged to the hilt.
You then have the fact that its takes your prices to live and work in your area so your not going to get guys coming in and doing
your terrace fronts for £3 or guys doing an excellent job on large detached properties for £20.
Mick if I where you I would spend more time being thankful for what you have and less time trying to second guess
what guys are able to achieve in other parts of the country.

Sorry but you view things the wrong way! are you not worth £10 to clean that front and back of a terrace house? For you to turn up on time every month keeping that customers windows clean and maintained being reliable and trustworthy throughout the year for them? Id say its more than worth a tenna
yes admittedly i do terrace fronts and purposely targeted those with no rear access to up my takings but i have been doing this for nearly 10 years and even so i think its still good value for my customers as they always have clean windows from a regular reliable service that i provide, even before doing mainly fronts i was charging £10 for a good 5/10 years doing front and backs on terrace houses.
I have also canvassed over the country for various guys too and can say that its how you sell yourself to get what you believe your worth, a positive person will get the prices he wants as wont take on any old work, can get good prices all over the country.
Yes there are house price differences north and south but we all pay the same for our food, fuel, cars, vans, holidays, clothes, etc etc so why should there be such a difference with window cleaning bills?


What I believe I'm worth has nothing to do with it, there's wanting the best (me) and being able to afford the best, its why some
will have a budget holiday in wherever and others will do a five star cruise.
You haven't discovered the secrete to successful prices you just happen to clean small properties for wealthy people and live
and work in an area where your prices are needed.
Confidence and self worth will get you the best price but that price will still be dictated by what your customers are willing and can afford to pay.

Slacky

  • Posts: 7678
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2017, 11:16:39 am »

You haven't discovered the secrete to successful prices you just happen to clean small properties for wealthy people and live
and work in an area where your prices are needed.
Confidence and self worth will get you the best price but that price will still be dictated by what your customers are willing and can afford to pay.


Theres more than one secret to successful prices. The bit in red is one of them.

There is no one secret which means we can charge what we want on any given property.

Mick Kent

  • Posts: 1380
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2017, 11:36:16 am »
There is no secret is there! We all are leaving money on the table or in our customers pockets as who really knows what a customer is willing to pay? I have been doing front onlys for 10 years without upping them, if i put them up a pound a year id be on £20 fronts now but i do believe i wouldnt have many customers if i did that.
Bigger scale example for you sean!An easy access 3 floor school with 400 windows for insides and outside yearly clean.
Most guys say "right 400 windows out £1 a window and 400 windows in £1 a window making the job £800" which is how most go for it.
Others would have a little more savvy knowing that its a yearly pig of a job where kids dirty head and fingerprints are everywhere and want to go in at £1.50 making the job £1200
Where as another guy who really wants the money as hasnt been going that long with not much work as other competition in the area  would  go in at 50p a window making the total job  £400!
It makes no difference where the school is in the country, its who is pricing it and how confident and knowledgeable we come accross, most would accept the cheapest, some will accept the middle and few will accept the highest!


I sub quite a lot of work out and always ask what will be  charged and so many guys are way out with what others charge who are all in the same area so it really is what you charge and what the competition is.

Customers are the same, we dont ever know what the perfect amount is to charge, we are just lucky that in most cases with our customers they are loyaland only have 1 guy cleaning and providing its a good regular job they stay with us.  if it was different and 100 window cleaners all lined up with there price on there bucket at every road  everyone would go straight for the cheaper option. Luckily it isnt like that.
 

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2017, 12:10:11 pm »
Cleaning 35-40 jobs a day regardless of how much an hour your hitting overall cannot be compared to doing the same hourly rate for say  6-8 jobs maximum,the less rushingnaround the more freedom and energy you will have. You will end up with the same in your pocket at the end of the week but you won't be able to keep it up,tortoise and hare spring to mind.

dazmond

  • Posts: 23601
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2017, 05:40:35 pm »
Surely £60-80ph is the norm glass time anyway with wfp, cream work is £150/200ph
Thats how i find it anyway, if you cant clean 6 small terrace houses at £10 or 4 medium semis at £15 or even 3 large semis at £20 an hour then your doing something wrong?

£60-£80 an hour is certainly not the norm for me anyway(and i doubt it is for many sole traders)and ive been window cleaning 24 years!i worked 830am-230pm today with 30 mins for lunch and earned £275 which works out at around £50 an hour.to me thats damn good money for hours worked.(11 jobs cleaned).not all days are like this though.
price higher/work harder!

Miko67

  • Posts: 86
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #45 on: September 05, 2017, 10:29:05 pm »
i see working 4 or 5 days a week freedom adam esp only working around 6 hours a day!(some times less!)as i used to work 60 hour weeks years ago.

i like to work and keep busy and my take home pay is usually over 30k a year after ALL expenses,taxes and insurances have been deducted(although i think itll be a bit less this year).im happy with that.

See I don't think it is.

It's certainly more freedom than being employed but in order to keep your customers and earn your money you still have to go out and work 5-6 hours a day week in week out whether you like it or not. That's not freedom really, I think we get a false sense of it being self employed but in reality if we stop the whole thing stops.

Its not a bad life though is it.

I think I'm motivated more by freedom than I am money. Graft my arse of everyday for a million a year or have 100k a year and not have to lift a finger I'd take the 100k. Would rather have the spare time to spend with family, hobby's and holidays etc. Of course you need certain level of income to do that and a certain amount of work to keep you sanity but it's having options that is motivating to me. Self employment is good but it's still slavery.

 8)
So your point being, you will be a slave master? Lol get the slaving while making money off them?

Stoots

  • Posts: 6064
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2017, 06:44:44 am »
i see working 4 or 5 days a week freedom adam esp only working around 6 hours a day!(some times less!)as i used to work 60 hour weeks years ago.

i like to work and keep busy and my take home pay is usually over 30k a year after ALL expenses,taxes and insurances have been deducted(although i think itll be a bit less this year).im happy with that.

See I don't think it is.

It's certainly more freedom than being employed but in order to keep your customers and earn your money you still have to go out and work 5-6 hours a day week in week out whether you like it or not. That's not freedom really, I think we get a false sense of it being self employed but in reality if we stop the whole thing stops.

Its not a bad life though is it.

I think I'm motivated more by freedom than I am money. Graft my arse of everyday for a million a year or have 100k a year and not have to lift a finger I'd take the 100k. Would rather have the spare time to spend with family, hobby's and holidays etc. Of course you need certain level of income to do that and a certain amount of work to keep you sanity but it's having options that is motivating to me. Self employment is good but it's still slavery.

 8)
So your point being, you will be a slave master? Lol get the slaving while making money off them?

Well yes, that's the ideal scenario.

dazmond

  • Posts: 23601
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2017, 08:09:44 am »
even if you have employees you wont be able to sit on your backside and do nothing.running a business requires effort every day.you will also have a lot more stress/hassle in your life as inevitably workers wont do what you want them to do sometimes,theyll try and rip you off and steal your round,do a shoddy job and lose you customers and call in sick when theres nothing wrong with them.they will also bump the van,break equipment,clean work on the side for themselves etc,etc.

its certainly not a walk in the park.they will also leave you in the lurch just when you ve got everything running smoothly and go and start up themselves or start another job. ;D
price higher/work harder!

Stoots

  • Posts: 6064
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2017, 12:02:37 pm »
even if you have employees you wont be able to sit on your backside and do nothing.running a business requires effort every day.you will also have a lot more stress/hassle in your life as inevitably workers wont do what you want them to do sometimes,theyll try and rip you off and steal your round,do a shoddy job and lose you customers and call in sick when theres nothing wrong with them.they will also bump the van,break equipment,clean work on the side for themselves etc,etc.

its certainly not a walk in the park.they will also leave you in the lurch just when you ve got everything running smoothly and go and start up themselves or start another job. ;D

Well when you put it like that   :'(

Of course you are right it won't be easy but then nothing ever is. It's been far from easy to build a round from scratch for myself. Been a lot of stress just getting this far.

No I don't want to do nothing I just want to do less.

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2017, 02:10:05 pm »
What dazmond has said is the reality of the situation you'll find yourself in,it's happened to me almost all of the above. If you have this kind of work on paper it looks lovley but in my experience as well as others it won't happen,if you think your going to give 2 blokes 6ks worth of work a month and sit back and watch it roll in wake up and get real. Days off through still being hung over from the weekend just not bothering to turn up missing houses out and saying they couldn't gain accesss the list is endless,the truth is you need to be out there cracking the whip and doing the same work every other clean or 3rd clean making sure all is ok. The best way to get robbed or lose half your work is to let them think your a donut.

nathankaye

  • Posts: 5366
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2017, 02:18:46 pm »
What dazmond has said is the reality of the situation you'll find yourself in,it's happened to me almost all of the above. If you have this kind of work on paper it looks lovley but in my experience as well as others it won't happen,if you think your going to give 2 blokes 6ks worth of work a month and sit back and watch it roll in wake up and get real. Days off through still being hung over from the weekend just not bothering to turn up missing houses out and saying they couldn't gain accesss the list is endless,the truth is you need to be out there cracking the whip and doing the same work every other clean or 3rd clean making sure all is ok. The best way to get robbed or lose half your work is to let them think your a donut.

These are the reasons why i dont wish to expand anymore than what i am capeable of doing myself.
I enjoy being self employed and my own boss and i have worked hard for the great reputation i have. That can all go in an instant by employing the wrong people and for me its not worth the hassle.
facebook.com/1NKServices
1NKServices.co.uk

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2017, 02:24:10 pm »
Anyone wishing to employ I say to them be very careful it the quickest way you'll ruin a profitable well built business if your not actually working with them,the customers you have if they are large domestics are wanting you and your attitude and your trust. There's hundreds of people out there thinking window cleaning is easy to pick up and couldn't give a monkeys about your business and it's reputation.

johnwillan

  • Posts: 313
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2017, 05:48:38 pm »
even if you have employees you wont be able to sit on your backside and do nothing.running a business requires effort every day.you will also have a lot more stress/hassle in your life as inevitably workers wont do what you want them to do sometimes,theyll try and rip you off and steal your round,do a shoddy job and lose you customers and call in sick when theres nothing wrong with them.they will also bump the van,break equipment,clean work on the side for themselves etc,etc.

its certainly not a walk in the park.they will also leave you in the lurch just when you ve got everything running smoothly and go and start up themselves or start another job. ;D

or...

You recruit on personality look after the good ones and get rid of the bad.

I don't deny there are people out there with the personality you describe but I also believe there are plenty of good, honest, hard working individuals who appreciate working for a good, honest, trusting employer with decent pay and perks.


dazmond

  • Posts: 23601
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2017, 06:46:34 pm »
even if you have employees you wont be able to sit on your backside and do nothing.running a business requires effort every day.you will also have a lot more stress/hassle in your life as inevitably workers wont do what you want them to do sometimes,theyll try and rip you off and steal your round,do a shoddy job and lose you customers and call in sick when theres nothing wrong with them.they will also bump the van,break equipment,clean work on the side for themselves etc,etc.

its certainly not a walk in the park.they will also leave you in the lurch just when you ve got everything running smoothly and go and start up themselves or start another job. ;D

or...

You recruit on personality look after the good ones and get rid of the bad.

I don't deny there are people out there with the personality you describe but I also believe there are plenty of good, honest, hard working individuals who appreciate working for a good, honest, trusting employer with decent pay and perks.

im sure there are but ive never met any of them! ;D
price higher/work harder!

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2017, 08:15:04 pm »
You have no idea what goes on in there heads I had a bloke for 5-6 years and then 1 day it was like it was like he was auditioning for the excorsist,you cannot tell me there will never be some sort of recentment this job and employing is a magnet for it. Number 1 rule when seeking the right person apart from the obvious ie smart half a brain physically able is bills they must have them or you'll be parked up at 7-7-30 while they are still tucked up in there beds  Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

֍Winp®oClean֍

  • Posts: 1615
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #55 on: September 06, 2017, 08:48:22 pm »
It's more about the employer than the employee. You're either capable of employing and running a business with employees or not- no amount of excuses will change that. It's a good job some can or the world would go bust!!
Comfortably Numb!

johnwillan

  • Posts: 313
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2017, 08:51:41 pm »
You have no idea what goes on in there heads I had a bloke for 5-6 years and then 1 day it was like it was like he was auditioning for the excorsist,you cannot tell me there will never be some sort of recentment this job and employing is a magnet for it. Number 1 rule when seeking the right person apart from the obvious ie smart half a brain physically able is bills they must have them or you'll be parked up at 7-7-30 while they are still tucked up in there beds  Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Yes "some" people do change with time, it may be resentment or outside circumstances, these are things you encounter with employment and when you do you need to act.

johnwillan

  • Posts: 313
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #57 on: September 06, 2017, 09:02:26 pm »
It's more about the employer than the employee. You're either capable of employing and running a business with employees or not- no amount of excuses will change that. It's a good job some can or the world would go bust!!

I agree, there are several great employers and good example of which is the Timpson Group, single operator outlets handling cash on a daily basis, two simple rules "look the part" and "put the money in the till", they have a few thousand employees on retail wages plus bonus, free to use holiday homes, birthday off in addition to usual holiday entitlement etc, etc, etc. They recruit on personality, look after the good and get rid of the bad, 8% of the workforce have either served time or are on day release, yes they do encounter issues such as theft sometimes after many years of faithful service but it does not deter the management of treating people with trust and respect. 

Stoots

  • Posts: 6064
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2017, 08:19:27 am »
My brother works for the local council.

He has been there 10 years and has never had a sick day ever.

He earns not much over minimum wage but he loves it as they get good perks. 7 weeks paid holiday a year (rises up to a max of 8 weeks with length if service) which is way above the minimum and they get a great pension. He also is allowed to use half his holiday entitlement to take off every Friday (half day fridays) so only works 4 days a week.

In my last job before being self employed I worked for 8 quid and hour as a del driver.
I stuck that job because the amount of work they have us each day only really was enough to last us till about 1pm that meant the rest of the afternoon till 4:30 we could just toss it off and do nothing. Basically as long as you completed the job sheet  they were happy and knew that we were tossing it off a few hours each day but didn't care. Spent most of my afternoons doing a bit of shopping or having a kip. Was great.

Point is if you look after your employees they will work for peanuts.

Shrek

  • Posts: 3931
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #59 on: September 07, 2017, 08:25:26 am »
My brother works for the local council.

He has been there 10 years and has never had a sick day ever.

He earns not much over minimum wage but he loves it as they get good perks. 7 weeks paid holiday a year (rises up to a max of 8 weeks with length if service) which is way above the minimum and they get a great pension. He also is allowed to use half his holiday entitlement to take off every Friday (half day fridays) so only works 4 days a week.

In my last job before being self employed I worked for 8 quid and hour as a del driver.
I stuck that job because the amount of work they have us each day only really was enough to last us till about 1pm that meant the rest of the afternoon till 4:30 we could just toss one off and do nothing. Basically as long as you completed the job sheet  they were happy and knew that we were tossing each other off a few hours each day but didn't care. Spent most of my afternoons doing a bit of shopping or having a kip. Was great.

Point is if you look after your employees they will work for peanuts.

Sounds like a great job!  ;D Why ever did you leave  ???

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 8545
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs
« Reply #60 on: September 07, 2017, 11:27:45 am »
My brother works for the local council.

He has been there 10 years and has never had a sick day ever.

He earns not much over minimum wage but he loves it as they get good perks. 7 weeks paid holiday a year (rises up to a max of 8 weeks with length if service) which is way above the minimum and they get a great pension. He also is allowed to use half his holiday entitlement to take off every Friday (half day fridays) so only works 4 days a week.

In my last job before being self employed I worked for 8 quid and hour as a del driver.
I stuck that job because the amount of work they have us each day only really was enough to last us till about 1pm that meant the rest of the afternoon till 4:30 we could just toss one off and do nothing. Basically as long as you completed the job sheet  they were happy and knew that we were tossing each other off a few hours each day but didn't care. Spent most of my afternoons doing a bit of shopping or having a kip. Was great.

Point is if you look after your employees they will work for peanuts.

Sounds like a great job!  ;D Why ever did you leave  ???

Started to have problems with his eyesight, lol.

Stoots

  • Posts: 6064
Re: £60-£80 an hour target for cream jobs New
« Reply #61 on: September 07, 2017, 11:36:43 am »
My brother works for the local council.

He has been there 10 years and has never had a sick day ever.

He earns not much over minimum wage but he loves it as they get good perks. 7 weeks paid holiday a year (rises up to a max of 8 weeks with length if service) which is way above the minimum and they get a great pension. He also is allowed to use half his holiday entitlement to take off every Friday (half day fridays) so only works 4 days a week.

In my last job before being self employed I worked for 8 quid and hour as a del driver.
I stuck that job because the amount of work they have us each day only really was enough to last us till about 1pm that meant the rest of the afternoon till 4:30 we could just toss one off and do nothing. Basically as long as you completed the job sheet  they were happy and knew that we were tossing each other off a few hours each day but didn't care. Spent most of my afternoons doing a bit of shopping or having a kip. Was great.

Point is if you look after your employees they will work for peanuts.

Sounds like a great job!  Wish I worked there, I like being tossed off by men in vans ;D Why ever did you leave  ???

Too much tossing it off get boring regardless of who's doing the tossing  :-*