Harry Roberts

  • Posts: 347
I would like to know if there are any flooring experts out there that can tell me how carpet grippers should be laid down on a concrete screeded floor.

The reason I ask is that I cleaned some carpet last night and this morning I had a call saying that I had shrunk the carpet.

When I got there ( hotel in Gerrads Cross ) nearly all the grippers were up or loose?

On the bottom of the grippers there were intermitent dabs of glue of some kind.

Should the grippers have been nailed to the floor?

Also on some of the seams where the carpet is joined they have split away, but when I looked at the glue sticks that should have been melted so the two peices can be adhered to some of the glue hasen't even melted - so how can they have possibly been given a chance to stick?

As you can guess I am in a bit of a stitution and I could do with any advise please?

Thanks in advance

Craigp

  • Posts: 1272
Hilti nails (nails strong enough not to bend on concrete) but builders love grip fill a powerful adhesive.

I was told on a course that no matter how well grippers are fixed it won't stop a shrinking carpet, it has been measured and it could pull tones in weight. Actually his words (Steve Polous) was if you sat an elephant each end it wouldn't stop a carpet shrinking.

Hilton

  • Posts: 5572
Oh dear, you can hardly blame a carpet fitter for the fitting now that the carpet had shrunk as a result of the clean.it would have been down to you to pre inspect..
Get a fitter in to refit the gripper and carpet, it may go back fine, if you are seen to be putting it right they may over look the situation..

If not I am afraid its get your policy out time..

Craigp

  • Posts: 1272
I wouldn't worry to much, your insurance may have to settle it. Worse case your premium will go up.

I take it premium goes up after a claim?

Mark Slaney

  • Posts: 693


  Grippers are fixed on a concrete floor by either heated glue sticks or something like styccobond. They will eventually become loose in places.  As Hilton said did you check on you per inspection? Hardly worth trying to re stretch especially if the join has come apart as well.

 Mark.

Kinver_Clean

  • Posts: 1120
Sounds like our old friend Belgian Wilton.

Many years ago I had gripper nails pull pyramids of concrete out when the carpet went 9ins on 9ft.

God must love stupid people---He made so many.

Let's just say the room is 20m x 30m
Are you telling me you go along and pull up all the carpet to find out (100m)?
What if you just pull back 80m of that carpet but don't bother with 20m of it or even 10m. If that's the weak point and it starts shrinking I'm sure no matter how well the rest is stuck down the pulling power will do it's damage along the well grippered line.

The Carpet Cleaning Pro

  • Posts: 753
Did you identify the carpet type prior to cleaning?
If it was identified as a possible shrinker... did you use any type of preventitive measures during and after to help minimise the risks?
Did you get any disclaimers signed?
Did you put air movers in place to maximise drying times?........... if not then I would say you are at fault . Not wanting to sound horrible but as a professional carpet cleaner the above should be as standard and...

All are simple things that can seriously cover your arse on such jobs.

The carpet will probably take about a week to relax, then I would get in a good carpet fitter and perhaps he/she can refit the gripper rods and stretch the carpet.

If that don't work then it looks like you need to pass on your insurance details.

I hope it all works out for you.

david mitcham

  • Posts: 43

If the gripper is to be stuck to a concrete floor the gripper rods should be cut into lengths no longer than 8 inches long.
If the heat seam tape is still ribbed that is a sure sign the glue has not melted sufficiently to create a firm and lasting joint.

Hope that's of help
David

tony bish

  • Posts: 165
Carpet gripper on concrete was put down usually by a solution called PA5 which was a powder mixed with a resin which set solid,fitters now usually use gripperfix which comes in a tube a bit like no more nails ,the gripper is cut into short lengths about 6-8 inches long solution put on it ( hence the dabs of glue you mentioned )and stuck down for a stronger adhere.If the sub floor is very smooth screed as opose to rough concrete it will be more prone to pulling up of the floor as there is not as much for the resin to sink into and stick to .A fitter would need to put new gripper down in the same way ,unless he can pin it with concrete pins ( there is usually a reason though why it is stuck down ie pipes or solid floor ).The joins were heat seamed by the sound of it which is glue on a roll of paper like tape and a heat seaming iron is put over it to melt the adhesive ,and if the heat seaming iron is not hot enough or is pushed along the tape too quickly it can leave some parts of the tape unmelted .A fitter would need to re join the seams and to do this he would need to re heat the old tape to release it ,you cannot just pull it of as it can ruin the edge of the carpet and not rejoin correctly .Sorry Harry its not a five min job for a fitter if it is done properly .You could I suppose argue that the seams were not heated properly ,but it is a long shot because as stated by Hilton you should have checked the joins or got a disclaimer in the first place mate .Good luck      

tony bish

  • Posts: 165
Sorry Dave ... great minds and all that  :)

Len Gribble

  • Posts: 5106
Ant got the foggiest but found this http://www.burmatex.co.uk/Advice/fittingyourcarpet


Hope it helps
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other. (Sidcup Kent)

peter maybury

  • Posts: 916
It is not possible to say what has happened as you have not even given a description of the type of carpet that has been cleaned in the first place and to anybody in the industry this is the most important factor.
Once that is identified then that will give you an indication of what to look for as regards the standards of fitting.
There are manufacturers fitting specifications that you can assume to have been met. These practices need to be in your terms and conditions. If you take a job on where somebody has used an unsuitable product in an unsuitable situation fitted badly then you you as a professional needs to be able to identify that situation. You need to have some training as it is not possible to cover a subject as in depth as this on a post.
Gripfill has a lot more strenth that nails and hot glue adhesion is very depentant on priming. Carpet fitters are the worst trade in the world for cutting corners as they have normally left a few years before any problems arise.

Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com

elliott cleaning

  • Posts: 778
Seems to be a lot of discussion about gripper fixing methods and quality of carpet fitters.  In my view, if a carpet ends up a different size, after one of us have cleaned it, then the problem is ours. It is our responsibility to ensure that we do what we are hired for - i.e. Clean the thing and not shrink it


tony bish

  • Posts: 165
Hit the nail on the head Elliott.Cut corners Peter ...... is that a pun ,I have never cut any corners ,cut round a few pipes though  ;D

Susan Dean (1stclean)

  • Posts: 2064
Seems to be a lot of discussion about gripper fixing methods and quality of carpet fitters.  In my view, if a carpet ends up a different size, after one of us have cleaned it, then the problem is ours. It is our responsibility to ensure that we do what we are hired for - i.e. Clean the thing and not shrink it



here here maybe the rest are blameing the fittter because they have been leart to do this on some corse that makes them the best carpet cleaners in the world ???????

bottom line is you shrunk it you now own it  ;D

Tony Gill Carpet Smart

  • Posts: 1254
I think talking about how grippers should be fixed is interesting But you have shrunk the carpet if you are lucky a fitter might be able to re fit after it has relaxed other wise you have bought it Hope you are Insured!!!

Regards Tony
STAY YOUNG HAVE FUN BE HAPPY xx
www.carpetcleanersbridlington.co.uk

Garyj

  • Posts: 765
Would insurance pay out on this?


Tony Gill Carpet Smart

  • Posts: 1254
Why not??

Tony
STAY YOUNG HAVE FUN BE HAPPY xx
www.carpetcleanersbridlington.co.uk

Garyj

  • Posts: 765
Because for insurance to pay out you would have had to take every procaution necessary to ensure the job is completed in a safe manner. Doesn't sound as if that happened so insurance company might have a get out!

I think talking about how grippers should be fixed is interesting But you have shrunk the carpet if you are lucky a fitter might be able to re fit after it has relaxed other wise you have bought it Hope you are Insured!!!

Regards Tony

But surely if you do your checks to make sure that grippers are in place, at what point are you expected to be an expert on glue strength, and what tests do you carry out to ensure it can withstand the pulling power of x/sqm of wetted BW?
We all know wetted BW goes tight but we do expect a professionally fitted gripper to do it's job.... within limits ie not soaking the living daylights out of it.

Kinver_Clean

  • Posts: 1120
The insurance may well pay out and then come after you for recompense.
God must love stupid people---He made so many.

Tony Gill Carpet Smart

  • Posts: 1254
Spot on Neil.

Tony
STAY YOUNG HAVE FUN BE HAPPY xx
www.carpetcleanersbridlington.co.uk

Susan Dean (1stclean)

  • Posts: 2064
Because for insurance to pay out you would have had to take every procaution necessary to ensure the job is completed in a safe manner. Doesn't sound as if that happened so insurance company might have a get out!

well if thats the case then write a check out and pay for it yourself ,

the customer must come frist and carpet should be replaced with in three days max

a true expert would have it sorted , the only time we ever shrunk a carpet was 10 years ago in a hotel  i had it ripped up and a brand new f/dinner layed the very next day

  to keep things right i relayed the h.s.l as well all   ( four landings and four sets of stairs)  ;D ;D not bad for a cheap cowboy firm i run cost me 2k (trade) but the tax man payed me it back at the end of the year  :P

Craigp

  • Posts: 1272
I think your forgetting carpet grippers are not there to prevent shrinkage. That is not there purpose.

So how they are fixed is irrelevant, they was doing there job just fine till you came along, lol.

tony bish

  • Posts: 165
Very good post Craig ,says it all really

neil kellett

  • Posts: 90
I was a fitter for years and it took me a good while to get the hang of a hammer on a concrete floor. Its completely different to laying smooth edge on a bedroom floor.  Fitters dont have the luxury of sticking or 'gunking' blobs of adhesive in order to adhere it. It takes 24 hours to set any way so it would only be done in extreme cases where a floor was really bad. 
Vilyetyet' c paboti mozhna v dva c4yota!
One can lose a job in the blink of an eye!

tony bish

  • Posts: 165
Hey Neil when we used to use PA5 mixture it would go off in 20-30 mins mate ,but now everyone uses gripperfix which takes slightly longer and is not as good ,but know where you are coming from you should really leave it for a lot longer .I think they have outlawed PA5 now because of the fumes but was incredible stuff .PS if any fitters still use it let me know where you can purchase it ,have looked everywhere .