[chopsie]

I am just in the process of starting up w/c.I just thought i would go down the trad route,I been working on construction sites for around 10 years and farming before that.I took voluntary redundancy as i was planning on leaving at xmas anyway,so thought i would get some cash off them whilst it was still being offered.I see on here that you all think everyone is jumping on the window cleaning band wagon,I potentially could be one of those people.I have thought about it for a long time,and now i am in a better position to do it than ever as i got redundancy money/divorced so no mortage or other big ties,my partner is moving in with me and for the first time in my life i do not necessarily have to support someone as she earns more than i used to in construction and that was very good!My question is,is there really enough work out there if everyone is starting up,I am now considering some sort of wfp set up for part or all of work as i think it would give me a wider range of jobs i.e dangerous/awkwark to reach windows,con roofs etc.working of ladders does not worry me as i have been doing that for the past 10 years so third storey windows won't put me off it just over cons and porches etc that are not worth risking for the sake of a quid!!What is everyone thoughts on this,I don,t want to be some multi national company working every hour of the day,i have been working away for 10 years and now i am in a position to spend some quality time with my girlfriend and my children i want to take it,not work my life away as i have been doing.(perhaps i am having a mid life chrisis at 32)!!!

[Lee Pryor]

i think there is enough work for everyone, it really depends on the area you live and how dense the population is against how afluent it is.

the best thing about window cleaning imo is you get out what you put in, which isnt usualy the case for someone who is employed.

its a question of getting out there puting out flyers (which you could make on the home pc cheaply for now) and knocking on doors, these are proven to be the best ways of building up, and its all we do. dont bother with newspaper adds and so on.

a diy wfp system is very easy to put together and doesnt have to cost the earth, although i do think every wc should have a good set of ladders and traditional skills. the first step in wfp diy is deciding which kind you need, for this get a tds meter and find out what the tds of your home tap water is. if its say 70ppm or under then only a DI system is needed. if more then a full RO system is required.

i think alot of people starting up as wc think its an easy ride, but the truth is its the same as any business 1% inspiration 99% perspiration. it can take 2 years to build a really good round. there for the question to ask is not so much is there enough work out there, but are you very self motivated with a clear vision of what you want to achieve.,

[dazmond]

i would buy a round to start u off if i were u.thats what i did 15 yrs ago and i worked for a window cleaner for a year before that and canvassed and picked up work.if u have no experience of trad window cleaning i would find a local guy who will take u out for the day and show u how its done properly!it will take u 12 months to get up to a decent standard and fairly fast and competent IMO.then i few years to build a good solid round depending on ur drive and ambition.and another few years to hone and compact it into a good paying round with good prices.i do think there is a lot more competition about these days with the recession and WFP and the internet.i would start off TRAD and then move over when uv got a half decent round.window cleaning IS NOT EASY MONEY.it takes hard work,tenacity.then theres no holiday/sick pay.downtime because of weather.accountants,bookeeping,tax,NI to sort out etc.BUT its the best thing i ever did.i hated landscaping 6 days a wk starting at 730 and finishing at 6 for crap money!i earn more now doing less hours.but dont think youll earn a fortune as a sole trader.it can get a bit lonely at times as well if ur used to workmate banter.i prefer my own company quite a bit and i have a great rappore with most of custys.so im happy!
good luck!

[chopsie]

thanks for the replies guys,there is so much to consider,i never evn thought of wfp until i came on here,i initially thought of getting a back pack for those awkward windows on some properties so i could offer custy a full service plus con roofs etc.the only thing about wfp is the production of the water,from what i have read this seems to be an extremly slow/wasteful process which must cost a fortune in water bills considering the wastage.i am certanly no eco warrior,far from it,but even i think this wastage is crazy,

[dazmond]

no wastage if DI only.use straight from the tap through DI into ur tank!NO GOOD IF UV GOT 300 TDS THO!go trad first if i were u.learn the basics then maybe move on from there if u stick at it!!

[chopsie]

ok dazmond,i think your right,i should stick with my origional plan of trad only,i just was worried over losing potential customers whose windows i could not safely reach.suppose there are plenty of safer one out there!

[Murdie window cleaning]

Hi Chopsie

I've just started out and most of my friends and family were suportive, but there was one or two who were all doom and gloom saying there are loads of window cleaners out there. This didn't put me off(bit of a stuborn sod) so I'm now in the process of door knocking in the afternoon and cleaning any I get the next morning.

I would agree that you have to be disaplined and able to motivate yourself, but it is worth it as it's a great feeling when a customer agrees to let you clean there windows. Set targets for your self, I've set myself a target of 50 new customers in November, so far I've picked up 11 and I'm realy getting a buzz chasing this target. Some will say set yourself a finacial target, that's fair enough but get customers and money will follow.

Good luck

[chopsie]

have you gone trad? i am trying to make a flyer on comp now,i am not having much luck yet,computers are not really my thing(except for the odd porn site i accidently stumble on!!!).did you have any previuos experiance?

[Murdie window cleaning]

have you gone trad? i am trying to make a flyer on comp now,i am not having much luck yet,computers are not really my thing(except for the odd porn site i accidently stumble on!!!).did you have any previuos experiance?

Of porn sites 

I don't think I had cleaned a window before I bought my trad gear, then before even thinking of finding a customer I cleaned my windows over and over, then done my parents house and I even cleaned the ex's windows when I went to see the kids.

I'm fully trad at the moment, but like you I am looking at getting a backpack and pole for those akward windows and cony roofs ect.

[TonyD]

I think it's all been said there in one way or another.

It's not easy, but put the time in and the customers are there. 

I've been cleaning for around 3 months, after closing my valeting/detailing  (very high end cars, so BIG drop in business the past year due to economy)  and getting window cleaning custom is much easier than other businesses.  To get valeting custom I had to spend a fortune on advertising/web SEO, and regular repeat custom is harder,  but window cleaning customers, it's just like any other selling - a numbers game - the more houses you canvass, the closer you are to the yes's, and hitting that lucky estate/road with no cleaner.

There is plenty of competition, but there's always a road that's sacked off a rubbish cleaner, or where someone has retired and there's still a need to fill.  You'll get days canvassing with no or very few customers, but other days on the right road you can get one after another, and that's a great feeling when it happens.  Especially knowing it's solid regular custom/income month after month, unlike the unpredictable building/farm trade.

[Niall McAllister]

ok dazmond,i think your right,i should stick with my origional plan of trad only,i just was worried over losing potential customers whose windows i could not safely reach.suppose there are plenty of safer one out there!

if you are in a position to go wfp, then go for that. It is safer, which is reason enough, but also you are still allowed to use trad gear as well , it's not either or.

if you put the ground work in, you should be fine.
the thing with this is after you get started, you only have to work as hard as you need to

[dazmond]

chopsie i can clean nearly all awkward windows that u can reach with a WFP with a trad pole.takes a lot of practice.i use it on all awkward windows and i would NEVER use a ladder higher then the first floor.pole everytime.trad poles do an ok job.have a look at some of my backposts on tips on how to clean using extension poles.ladders i use the most but pole v.handy for slippy decking etc and above porch roofs.

[Milltown Cleaning]

just going through this kind of thought process myself at the minute, work is slow at the minute. Im still in my first year, just received 5000 leaflets and im delivering them at the mo. I wanted to try and knock as many doors as i can, but finding that there are very few people in. Im finding it very easy to think that no one is going to reply!!

[stevieg]

No!!!!!!!!

[Milltown Cleaning]

No!!!!!!!!

ahh the voice of optimism!

[bobby p]

if u live anywhere in the south theres bags of window work,but it wont come overnight i can promise u . it needs seeking out ,  but once u find one house and clean it good, the neighbours will see u at it ,and the jungle drums on the street  start beating . you will know ur accepted when  the local cafe folk  tell everyone that your the guy that does windows.

 buy ladder n squeegee and  get out on the street as soon as mate is my tip  and good luck   

[pingu]

We all have our 'own success' stories but as most have said...leaflet an area then go back to that same area say 2 days later and doorknock each house make a note of response for every house...if it's yes...good to go! if no mark it down in your book....then releaflet the area every 12 weeks...for the next year...

Keep a track on what you have done ...when you start getting yourself known you could think about loyalty schemes...when a customer gets me a couple of additional customers I give that customer a free clean...(don't be tempted to drop their price ).

Do what you say you are going to do when you have said you will do it...avoid doing large freebies...you are a business....inner confidence will help you sell your product.

All you need is 1 customer...when you have this nut cracked..just do the same again and then keep repeating your tried and tested process

We all feel we need the take all the work we can get when we start..and of course that is true...but at times I imagine loads of us when we first started (me = 3yrs old so not that long) were very timid and more than likely gave the impression that we were desperate for the work...no one needs to know that you have only been going 3 days...Run your business like you have be running years

There is plenty of work out there...all you have to do is go and get it..over to you...look forward to hearing from you in a year telling us how great you life is now.

If you do not have a thick skin yet...grow one overnight.

Cheers and good luck
Dave.

p.s after 3 years you'll be a arm-chair expert like me too

[Tosh]

I've had a really quiet Spring and Summer this year; I put that down to the credit crunch; but for the past month or so its been hectic with taking on good quality jobs, ranging from a big mansion, a factory unit, and a few jobs jobs priced around the £30 to £50 mark.

I think there's a big element of luck; being in the right place at the right time.  Especially if you're too lazy to go out and get work, like I am most of the time.

[JRDEasiReach]

just going through this kind of thought process myself at the minute, work is slow at the minute. Im still in my first year, just received 5000 leaflets and im delivering them at the mo. I wanted to try and knock as many doors as i can, but finding that there are very few people in. Im finding it very easy to think that no one is going to reply!!

M8 i knocked doors for the first time last week and ended up with 6 new monthly customers so far and thats with very little knocking, with my ad in the paper at start of december im hoping for an influx of new customers, its hard work but very very rewarding knowing you have done the hard work!!!

As for the guy in question, buy a cheap wfp if you can, thats what i done and dont even bother with trad, no point when you can get a better result with the wfp

[chopsie]

i have just got back from 2 hours sat on my arse at the job centre,signing on,never been before and nearly walked out,staff just standing around doing nothing!went for part time postie job thia am, 8.30 interview,got there for 8.10 and interviewers did not turn up till 9.10!!!!no wonder this country is going to the dogs!!then when i got back i met a neighbour(i am new to area)asked if a window cleaner came round and how much,she said yes fortnightly,house one time then house and con next(3 bed end terrace)charges 2.50 for house and 4.00 for house and con,i nearly died,He must be bloody mental!!! she says he got another job so probably dont need to charge much.think i better look further afield

[cornelius jemmerso]

heyup chopsie , whereabouts i the country are you ? have u bought the basic kit yet ?   hope so 

[chopsie]

JRD,any advice on a cheap water fed pole?I have got cash for a new van set up but there is no way i am forking out that kind of money without a customer base,I would probaby go to 1500-2000 tops and that would be after a lot of inner soul searching,the safety factor is the big selling point for me,HSE have really clamped down on ladders on constuction sites,some main contractors have banned them completly,and step ladders well they are really frowned upon.On the subject,i have got IPAF licence for cherry pickers and scissor lifts,any thoughts on utilising that for w/c?

[chopsie]

I am in Derby.Have bought squeege and applicator,ladders i can borrow/buy whenever.just practising on my place at moment

[cozy]

Chopsie, My sister lives in Allestree, she says there is a WC up there but only one. She reckons the prices up there are around 8 to 12 quid without cony. Maybe you should get up to there and start banging on doors mate. She lives in Carsington Cres.

[chopsie]

sounds good,cheers mate.allestree is a nice area and i was thinking £8.00 min charge.thanks mate this site is awesome.was thinking of heading into countryside aswell as i recon they will be good payers

[dai]

The answer to this thread is no. Not if everyone takes up window cleaning.
The real answer is in itself a question, are there many people in your area looking for a window cleaner?
The only way you will know is to get out there and knock on doors.
Just don't make the mistake of placing a millstone round your neck, by pricing too low in order to get a start.

[perfectpanesplymouth]

I am still in my first year (about 6 months)and have now got over 120 custies and it looks like I have won a major contract with one of the largest employers in Plymouth, so yes I think there is plenty of work out there for everyone

[mark dew]

I think there's plenty. It raising the bar with the quality of work that takes time. But it will come. It is just a case of hanging in there.

[Milltown Cleaning]

...and hanging in there is about all im doing right now!!

trying to do everything right, good work at a good price, friendly, uniformed, signwritten van, 5000 leaflets, website, show up on time!! Should that read "great work at a great price?!"

i assume it does get better!?

[Niall McAllister]

Also, don't spend all your time on forums, they rot your brain and twist your spirit.
just get out and do it

[Milltown Cleaning]

Also, don't spend all your time on forums, they rot your brain and twist your spirit.
just get out and do it

ahh you see now that is where i have been going wrong!!

[Window Washers]

...and hanging in there is about all im doing right now!!

trying to do everything right, good work at a good price, friendly, uniformed, signwritten van, 5000 leaflets, website, show up on time!! Should that read "great work at a great price?!"

i assume it does get better!?

if what your saying is true and not the things you should be doing, there is very littl;e reason for it not to get better m8, just keep your chin up, this time of year can go one of to ways, mad or quite.. at the moment it is mad. Jan the same

[AuRavelling79]

In all honesty I don't think it is as easy to start up now as it was say two years ago. But there are a lot of window cleaners around in my part of Bristol.

I've cerainly been told by my custies about more canvassing in my area too.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but you need to allow more time or you will be servicing irritating and unreliable custies that no-one else wants.

[JRDEasiReach]

...and hanging in there is about all im doing right now!!

trying to do everything right, good work at a good price, friendly, uniformed, signwritten van, 5000 leaflets, website, show up on time!! Should that read "great work at a great price?!"

i assume it does get better!?

how long you been at it m8?  on the point of there being enough work, im sure there will be, when the law comes in banning ladders then alot of the ladder only men will be out of business if they dont like wfp thus leaving a gap and thats not including the boys who set up to fill the gap while the downturn is on. 

chopsie m8 visit sureclean systems, google them,  im sure they can sort you out with kit for that sort of money, i paid 2500 for my 350 ltr tank, 4040 RO, Di vessel, hose and reel, pole with trigger, tds meter and fitting.  They send to england from NI and give you step by step instructions to fit it, if what you are saying about your past work is true then you will be able to do it no bother, if in doubt too you can just give him a bell.  worth a shot m8, may aswell go full pelt if you are going to stick it out like me, i never cleaned a window before in my life lol

[cozy]

...and hanging in there is about all im doing right now!!

trying to do everything right, good work at a good price, friendly, uniformed, signwritten van, 5000 leaflets, website, show up on time!! Should that read "great work at a great price?!"

i assume it does get better!?

how long you been at it m8?  on the point of there being enough work, im sure there will be, when the law comes in banning ladders then alot of the ladder only men will be out of business if they dont like wfp thus leaving a gap and thats not including the boys who set up to fill the gap while the downturn is on. 

So when does that ban on ladders start then JRDE?

[JRDEasiReach]

Well over here in NI its the councils responsibility to put the ban in place in their own locality, so far from what i have heard Co Down is the ONLY county over here to issue the ban, which im told meant some ladder men giving up the window cleaning as they didnt want to part with the cash for the wfp system.  More recently i heard of a window cleaner falling off a ladder over here too and was out cold for over 30 mins.  I have a feeling they will be banned sooner than later, especially as there is an alternative method.

[chopsie]

well i been out and leaflet dropped 0n around 300-400 houses,finished about 4pm just before it really peed it down.decided not to door knock this time as i know how much i hate sales people calling.really enjoyed it out and about though.heard nothing yet,but fingers crossed

[krave]

Im not saying leafleting is no good! But in my opinion you have to knock doors to get work up. Or at any sort of pace.

Leaflets seem to work sometimes but over the long run, people save them and call after months and months.

Door knocking its in their faces.

Maybe with your 2k, buy trad equipment, practice, door knock and buy a bit of work, or get a roundbuilder. Not saying buying work etc is the best way to do things, just maybe a kick start.

Round builders work out cheaper!

Although you will have to be ok with speaking to new and unknown people in this business!!

[chopsie]

i don't mind the meeting and talking to new faces,just don't want to be in there faces if they are not interested,thought i would possible call back in the evening when more people in.Is that good idea or will it really p them off an the evening!!Spoke to a couple of potentials who were outside their houses,each said they would let me know,but not holding out much hope.Being out there really answered my original post,the scale of just that one estate could easily accomadate  dozens of cleaners,I just got to drop on that elusive area with no cleaner.Will hit again hard next week

[krave]

If the area you dropped leaflets at today has no cleaner, I would definitely call back tomorrow evening, dressed smart, binder or diary in hand and ask them.

if they have no cleaner, could be in for luck. Dont worry what people think, you get some horrible people at their doors, but they are rare, most people are polite about things and will let you know.

Itys not as daunting as you think. Once you get out youl get more and more confident.

Good luck!!

[DanC]

Evening all, hope you don't mind me jumping in here.  I'm new to this forum and window cleaning for that matter.  I started approx 6 months ago working weekends to begin (I'm employed too - full time) but it's been pretty slow.  I purchased a van and wfp system, i also have a customer service background but to be honest have struggled to get customers.  I'm on online directories, phone books etc and I've distributed some leaflets although not many.  I guess what has kinda been holding me back is upsetting other window cleaners.  Any advice??

[krave]

Just cold call, dont look at stealing work or undercut to get work.
you would be doing nothing wrong.

[chopsie]

What do you do at the houses with "No hawkers or sellers or canvassers etc" on the door.do you still knock,and if so what kind of reaction do you get.seemed to be a lot of elderly people with them on bungalows

[DanC]

I would never look to steal work or undercut anyone, that's not me.  I live in the northeast but Ive been told the council don't allow cold calling.

[chopsie]

DanC. as you prob have seen i am just starting out,what do you think of wfp set up?I am not too worried about upsetting other window cleaners,they dont own the area,just like Plumbers,builders,milkmen etc etc.If any told me today that they had a cleaner i did not even give them a flyer,and certainly would not quote them.I am not going to knowingly undercut,am going for between 0.75 and £1.00 a window depending on area with min £8.00 charge,if its cheaper than other cleaners so be it,I dont think its cheap especially for Derby,Its not London!

[krave]

To be honest I knock them, most people that answer the door are no different with these. I have got some customers from these houses, some have said there stickers from last owner.

My nan has one and says she dont mind people knocking, (bit pointless).

If your worried about knocking them you can do what I used to do, and when they answer say you only just saw the sticker, say sorry, then go in with your pitch lol.


DanC

I dont know about council rules, Never heard of that tho to be honest.

[DanC]

I love the wfp, it's the reason I started really after lots of research just wish I could get my business going.  I want to be my own boss, work hard,be outdoors and its great doing a good job.
I'm just going to go for it now, it's held me back somewhat.

[Murdie window cleaning]

Chopsie, if you want customers you've got to knock on doors. Even if a customer says no thanks when you knock, they could come back to you because the've saw your face and got a leaflet.

I've picked up 12 new custies over the last couple of days by knocking. Once you've got the first door knocked and then got the first customer you'll be flying.

Good luck

[windowswashed]

Failure cannot live with persistency. If you want to earn and haven't got the work, you need to do something about it. Quitters don't work and workers don't quit.

[DanC]

Yeah your so right (Murdie WC),  I need to get that first one out the way.
I'm going off line now, early start tomorrow!.  Thanks for the chat, in the meantime to all the regulars who are currently offline, if you have any feedbck for me that would be great.  I'll be back on tomorrow no doubt.

[cozy]

I think that quote was "Quitters never win and winners never quit" We have read the same books lol

[chopsie]

well i certainly feel more confident after today,just need to put it into practise next week.could do it this weekend but have got the kids,or maybe that could be an angle,dress them in old tatty clothes,dirty them up a bit,perhaps people would take pity on us and work would flood in!! ex would have something to say about it though!

[cozy]

Don't forget the flat cap and Dick Van d y k e accent and call the custy "Guvn'r"

[chopsie]

ha ha,will brush up on me accent and exploit the kids! may as well see if any chimneys want cleaning while i have got them

[Murdie window cleaning]

Quitters don't work and workers don't quit.

I don't know what book it's from, but I like it because it is so true. Starting out in any business is hard and window cleaning is just the same. Work hard and I'm convinced the rewards will come. No one is going to knock on your door and ask you to come and clean there windows, you HAVE to go to them.

Get on the treadmill of knocking and cleaning, knocking and cleaning. When you step off after 6 months or so you mite just have a half decent round(at least that's what I'm hoping )

[cozy]

Post of the day.

[Milltown Cleaning]

it just gives you that warm fuzzy feeling before drifting off to sleep, dreaming of a profitable business with an excellent round!!

we all gotta stay positive!

[cozy]

4 litres of Kraut beer has the same effect lol

[daz1977]

a lot of towns have a no cold calling zone, they put them up on the street lights,  i think they are manily there for vacuum cleaner sales and ele sales men,  just pretend you didnt know,  as long as there is no pressure you should not get reported,

if you want to go leaflets you will have to put thousands out, and put them out regular, this can be very time consuming, i use the local guy who delivers for the local coop, i pay him to hand out flyers when he does theres and have never had any problems

[JRDEasiReach]

it just gives you that warm fuzzy feeling before drifting off to sleep, dreaming of a profitable business with an excellent round!!

we all gotta stay positive!

yep!! and because of that i cant sleep and think about windows all the time, wifes going to shoot me any of the rest of you like that, you never did say how long you been at it ?