Listen to this

« **on:** March 10, 2009, 04:15:02 pm »

Out canvassing today for trad, was asked to quote for a 4 bed detached house, with front bay window, windows to both sides largest conservatory, most windows had lead but not lattice, ie just a border of lead, the lady said she wasnt happy with her window cleaners as she didnt like wfp, i quoted £30, explained the job plus conservatory would take best part of a hour, she nearly dropped dead as her current windies charge £12, man what some people are prepared to work for!

« **Reply #1 on:** March 10, 2009, 04:38:32 pm »

Don't forget though, while you're still cleaning the front windows the WFP guy will have finished and will be cleaning the neighbour's windows.

Conservatories are easy with a pole; so is lead windows and so on and so on.

You didn't get the job 'cause she's used to paying £12 so £30 sounded a tad pricey.

As for the professionalism comment, I hope that doesn't mean that a WFP user doesn't have any!!

« **Reply #2 on:** March 10, 2009, 04:46:41 pm »

i took it as wfp isnt professonal .

thats the thing with wfp when will you get it in your heads some times its a lot quicker
and you can pass on a saving to the custi not be a cowboy just pass on a saving get it

« **Reply #3 on:** March 10, 2009, 05:53:50 pm »

Thats the thing with WFP there is a hugee speed diffrence between doing Leaded windows trad and WFP!

the WFP is much much more faster and hell of alot easier and probs come up alot better when the sun is shining.

I love using it on the leads and windows like that i think it really does do a better job than me getting up there rubing like hell and then the sun comes out and theres bound to be a little mark or two maybe not much for a customer to complain, but i like it done right

« **Reply #4 on:** March 10, 2009, 05:59:19 pm »

Get flashy flyers plenty of signwriting then you`ll get your price,turn up in an old banger and jeans you`ll look more like dick turpin i`m not saying you do but the reaction you get to price is all about the image you give.

« **Reply #5 on:** March 10, 2009, 06:00:09 pm »

if someone with a wfp passes on the saving surely they would be better just sticking to trad as how can they then pay for replacment di and ro filters, insurance, tuns of water etc etc.

« **Reply #6 on:** March 10, 2009, 06:06:49 pm »

Quote from: ladder garder on March 10, 2009, 06:00:09 pm

if someone with a wfp passes on the saving surely they would be better just sticking to trad as how can they then pay for replacment di and ro filters, insurance, tuns of water etc etc.

Exactly there is no point quoting cheap just because you can now do it quicker,the moneys made because you now have the tools to do it faster.Reduce your prices and do twice the amount of work for the same money,no thank`s.

« **Reply #7 on:** March 10, 2009, 06:23:29 pm »

Quote

Exactly there is no point quoting cheap just because you can now do it quicker,the moneys made because you now have the tools to do it faster.Reduce your prices and do twice the amount of work for the same money,no thank`s.

Could not agree more! if everyone droped there prices the ladder guys would have to do it for hardly anything to get work. plus if you started dropping the prices and at one time had to go back to ladder because your system gets stolen or something like that and dont have the cash to buy another then your going to lose out serious amounts.

« **Reply #8 on:** March 10, 2009, 06:39:01 pm »

Quote from: NWH on March 10, 2009, 06:06:49 pm

Quote from: ladder garder on March 10, 2009, 06:00:09 pm
if someone with a wfp passes on the saving surely they would be better just sticking to trad as how can they then pay for replacment di and ro filters, insurance, tuns of water etc etc.
Exactly there is no point quoting cheap just because you can now do it quicker,the moneys made because you now have the tools to do it faster.Reduce your prices and do twice the amount of work for the same money,no thank`s.

Thank god for that NWH, I want to go WFP over here this year and would NEVER drop my price. The tool (WFP) is for my advantage, secondly the custy. That's how I see it

Just read Dave0123's line. I agree too mate

« **Reply #9 on:** March 10, 2009, 06:49:37 pm »

The fact is it does cost more to use WFP i`ve had to spend another £1k this week on a new static setup and other bits but it`s worth it because you can earn more so i only see it as investing not just plain spending for spendings sake.If a product comes out to make life easier i will buy it every time,like i say i don`t see it as a waste but it would be if i wasn`t earning from it and dropping prices is not the answer for me.

« **Reply #10 on:** March 10, 2009, 07:02:37 pm »

sorry trad guys but the one and only reason i'm wfp is safety, some of my prices are low but i make a good living and despite what other people think about the expense of wfp i really wouldnt say its that bad at all, i have spent £20 quid on filters and a new pole over the last year and that's it...

« **Reply #11 on:** March 10, 2009, 07:10:55 pm »

There was a few people on the estate that mention they were not to impressed by wfp system but to be honest if thats the case i would be inclined to think it was more the poor workmanship of the operator rather than the system its self. I admit a few doors ive knocked on recently have wfp and ive noticed it does a excellent job especialy the frames look clean

« **Reply #12 on:** March 10, 2009, 07:13:39 pm »

Good point, but why drop a price because you have WFP?

« **Reply #13 on:** March 10, 2009, 07:14:12 pm »

Quote from: kris martin on March 10, 2009, 07:02:37 pm

sorry trad guys but the one and only reason i'm wfp is safety, some of my prices are low but i make a good living and despite what other people think about the expense of wfp i really wouldnt say its that bad at all, i have spent £20 quid on filters and a new pole over the last year and that's it...

did you ge the system for free then?

« **Reply #14 on:** March 10, 2009, 07:25:47 pm »

Quote from: ladder garder on March 10, 2009, 07:14:12 pm

Quote from: kris martin on March 10, 2009, 07:02:37 pm
sorry trad guys but the one and only reason i'm wfp is safety, some of my prices are low but i make a good living and despite what other people think about the expense of wfp i really wouldnt say its that bad at all, i have spent £20 quid on filters and a new pole over the last year and that's it...

did you ge the system for free then?

no obviously not but it diddnt cost me an arm an a leg either and you have to bare in mind their is always a start up cost the trad way, maybe not as much (granted) but i would say the actual running cost is not that much more than trad. I'm talking about my business by the way and nobody elses so other peoples expenses may differ significantly to mine..

« **Reply #15 on:** March 10, 2009, 07:31:15 pm »

Trad start up approx 300 quid plus whatever vehicle u can afford

« **Reply #16 on:** March 10, 2009, 07:35:44 pm »

Quote from: kris martin on March 10, 2009, 07:25:47 pm

Quote from: ladder garder on March 10, 2009, 07:14:12 pm
Quote from: kris martin on March 10, 2009, 07:02:37 pm
sorry trad guys but the one and only reason i'm wfp is safety, some of my prices are low but i make a good living and despite what other people think about the expense of wfp i really wouldnt say its that bad at all, i have spent £20 quid on filters and a new pole over the last year and that's it...

did you ge the system for free then?
no obviously not but it diddnt cost me an arm an a leg either and you have to bare in mind their is always a start up cost the trad way, maybe not as much (granted) but i would say the actual running cost is not that much more than trad. I'm talking about my business by the way and nobody elses so other peoples expenses may differ significantly to mine..

I dont really have a problem with anyone charging less than me, if there happy to work for less then so be it, its not really anything to do with me, so I am not questioning your priceing system. However I think if you are honest it costs you more than £20 filters and a pole. What about extra vehicle insurance, water, additional fuel usesage due to the weight, do your tires wear more due to the wieght etc. Thats really the only point I was trying to make there.

« **Reply #17 on:** March 10, 2009, 07:45:52 pm »

i understand but let me give you an example, we dont use a van mount we use a trolley £1000 complete and was told the trolley will give you at least a few years of use if looked after properly, we used to use 2 big ladders and now use none, the ladders we used cost £150 each and used to get inspected and respiked at 6 months at £30 a ladder and the ladders got replaced after 12 months, thats £360 in the first year £360 in the second year and £360 in the third year. granted i might of been over cautious with ladders but i diddnt want to take risks with people climbing ladders for me and have that on my head. i make that over £1000 for my ladders over 3 years and £1000 for trolley system and the ladders and trolley system will go in the same car.

« **Reply #18 on:** March 10, 2009, 07:49:09 pm »

like i say this is how i run my business and know everybody runs their own business their own way but i honestly dont see much difference in the actual running costs of the business.

« **Reply #19 on:** March 10, 2009, 07:50:16 pm »

ive spikes on my ladders that are 20 year old

« **Reply #20 on:** March 10, 2009, 07:53:35 pm »

bloomin eck stan your aviator nearly took my eyes out

;D

;

« **Reply #21 on:** March 10, 2009, 07:54:59 pm »

ive just found that on a burnley football site,ive never seen her at the Turf

« **Reply #22 on:** March 10, 2009, 07:57:15 pm »

Quote from: Stan The Man on March 10, 2009, 07:50:16 pm

ive spikes on my ladders that are 20 year old

well thats crazy and i wouldnt dream of it. it was only in the last year of us doing trad that i started using titans and they are god damn good ladders that may last a couple of years (not 20).

« **Reply #23 on:** March 10, 2009, 07:57:42 pm »

Quote from: kris martin on March 10, 2009, 07:49:09 pm

like i say this is how i run my business and know everybody runs their own business their own way but i honestly dont see much difference in the actual running costs of the business.

Yeah right lol.

« **Reply #24 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:01:46 pm »

Quote from: NWH on March 10, 2009, 07:57:42 pm

Quote from: kris martin on March 10, 2009, 07:49:09 pm
like i say this is how i run my business and know everybody runs their own business their own way but i honestly dont see much difference in the actual running costs of the business.
Yeah right lol.

what have i got to achive if i lie like i say my main priority is safety and even if it did cost me a lot more then it would be worth every penny, i dont know how much filters would cost in a hard water area but i have a pps of 057 and have gone through 1 set of filters in 1 year.

« **Reply #25 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:05:24 pm »

Fair enough Kris i`m not calling you a liar maybe i like my toys to much i`m buying different things all the time i love it lol,if a pole needs changing i change it i don`t let brushes get ruined before i change them i have quiet a few and alternate between them so there hardly worn.I`m not saying you can`t get away with spending little i just like my things to be tip top.

« **Reply #26 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:08:36 pm »

Quote from: NWH on March 10, 2009, 08:05:24 pm

Fair enough Kris i`m not calling you a liar maybe i like my toys to much i`m buying different things all the time i love it lol,if a pole needs changing i change it i don`t let brushes get ruined before i change them i have quiet a few and alternate between them so there hardly worn.I`m not saying you can`t get away with spending little i just like my things to be tip top.

i agree with that and have tried buying this that and the other but always resort back to the same pole and brush, thats a 17ft xtel and wait for it...... an OVAL vikan, just like the way this brush splays on the window..

« **Reply #27 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:11:05 pm »

Quote from: kris martin on March 10, 2009, 07:57:15 pm

Quote from: Stan The Man on March 10, 2009, 07:50:16 pm
ive spikes on my ladders that are 20 year old
well thats crazy and i wouldnt dream of it. it was only in the last year of us doing trad that i started using titans and they are god damn good ladders that may last a couple of years (not 20).

Kris the spikes are 20 not the ladders

« **Reply #28 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:12:57 pm »

so your ladders must be 40 years old then.

« **Reply #29 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:16:34 pm »

Quote from: kris martin on March 10, 2009, 08:12:57 pm

so your ladders must be 40 years old then.

no ladders only last a year then take spikes off old ladder and put on new ladder

« **Reply #30 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:18:46 pm »

are you having my head over $:-\$ , i had a spike snap on me after a few months and besides that they get blunt.

« **Reply #31 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:24:30 pm »

no im not i dont use the crap ones from Browns,mine were made by a mechanic,they are the width of the ladder ,fasten them on the back of the ladder,eight of an inch wide,and i only have 1 inch below ladder,have bevel on but never sharpen them ihave 2 sets 20 year old and 1 set 4 year old

« **Reply #32 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:26:40 pm »

probably what it is then i get mine from brown's, well used to anyway..

« **Reply #33 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:27:17 pm »

stan ,is that the real you in your picture

« **Reply #34 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:28:04 pm »

Quote from: elite mike on March 10, 2009, 08:27:17 pm

stan ,is that the real you in your picture

no its the wife

« **Reply #35 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:28:23 pm »

Quote from: cozy on March 10, 2009, 07:31:15 pm

Trad start up approx 300 quid plus whatever vehicle u can afford

Do you know if someone ask me how much I would have said about £300 as well, but you got me thinking, because I now own more more £300 of ladders alone and wondered what I would spend if my van and all the gear was stollen. If I had to replace all the equipement what would it cost, so I added up a basket on WCW and got a wopping £732.57 of trad gear. plus a 2k van.

here is my list:-

Unger Pre-Washed Scrim Pack of 10 x2
Unger Soft Rubber 14" Box of 25
Unger Soft Rubber 42" x3
Unger Ergo Handle Extension
Plastic End Clips
Unger Monsoon Strip - 6"
Unger Monsoon Strip - 14" x3
Unger Alu T-bar - 6"
Unger ErgoTec T-bar - 14"
Unger Liquid x3
Unger Maxi Scraper
10 Unger 4" RB100 Blades
Unger Vice-Versa - 14"
Unger Swivel Loc Handle with Straight Head x2
Unger Swivel Loc Handle with Angled Head x2
Unger S-Channel 6"
Unger S-Channel 10"
Unger S-Channel 12"
Unger S-Channel 14"
Unger S-Channel 18"
Unger S-Channel 22"
Unger Bucket on a Belt - Standard
Unger Belt for Sprayer on a Belt
Unger Nylon Pouch x2
SealSkinz Gloves
Unger 28L Big Bucket Lid
Unger 28L Big Bucket
Unger Fixi Clamp
Unger Opti-Loc Pole - 3.0m x 2
Unger Opti-Loc Pole - 3 Section
Titan Classic Triple 3.0m/7.1m
Ladder Clamp
LadderMat Ladder Leveller
Ladder Locks

« **Reply #36 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:30:53 pm »

someone setting up wouldnt need all that gear,you have 6 lengh of channel,i only use 14 inch

« **Reply #37 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:32:23 pm »

Quote from: kris martin on March 10, 2009, 08:26:40 pm

probably what it is then i get mine from brown's, well used to anyway..

got a ladder from Browns after 3 months rungs loose in stiles,worst ladder i ever had,midland ladder from now

« **Reply #38 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:34:00 pm »

Quote from: Stan The Man on March 10, 2009, 08:32:23 pm

Quote from: kris martin on March 10, 2009, 08:26:40 pm
probably what it is then i get mine from brown's, well used to anyway..

got a ladder from Browns after 3 months rungs loose in stiles,worst ladder i ever had,midland ladder from now

cannot beat access international clima

« **Reply #39 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:35:25 pm »

Quote from: elite mike on March 10, 2009, 08:34:00 pm

Quote from: Stan The Man on March 10, 2009, 08:32:23 pm
Quote from: kris martin on March 10, 2009, 08:26:40 pm
probably what it is then i get mine from brown's, well used to anyway..

got a ladder from Browns after 3 months rungs loose in stiles,worst ladder i ever had,midland ladder from now

cannot beat access international clima

is that the firm or ladder maker,have you a web address

« **Reply #40 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:39:21 pm »

thye only added up to about £12 and handy to have, I know you could start with less, like I said if I replaced everything I have.

« **Reply #41 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:40:58 pm »

OK Ladder, I'm in Germany but just cuz Unger are Guurmuns I don't think it's THAT much cheaper here. I started with 1 kit and 1 spare. A complete Unger dolly ( aplicator I think in UK) complete sqeegy cloths, scraper, dunno what that is in UK.(razor) Basically 2 of everything that fits in a bucket (2 of them). Ladders 2x 12 with stabler. Extention pole 1x3 mtr etc etc. Step ladder 2x3 all together 280 to 300 sheets.Roof rack for the car I had at the time. What can I say. I bought 3 point ladder with parts later but i was talking about start up. Stand by what I've said

Goota go 2nd half

« **Reply #42 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:43:28 pm »

Quote from: Stan The Man on March 10, 2009, 08:35:25 pm

Quote from: elite mike on March 10, 2009, 08:34:00 pm
Quote from: Stan The Man on March 10, 2009, 08:32:23 pm
Quote from: kris martin on March 10, 2009, 08:26:40 pm
probably what it is then i get mine from brown's, well used to anyway..

got a ladder from Browns after 3 months rungs loose in stiles,worst ladder i ever had,midland ladder from now

cannot beat access international clima
is that the firm or ladder maker,have you a web address

hi stan

not sure if they are still going, got mine from jewsons

about 12 years old now

if you open a trade cash account with them you get them at a good price

they came with the swivel feet

« **Reply #43 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:48:52 pm »

It wasn't a contridiction, I agree that you could start up for 300 but if I replaced all the equipement I have, and a set of ladders as listed it would be more. I was just curious how much it all added upto.

Quote

Ladders 2x 12 with stabler. Extention pole 1x3 mtr

you could get 2 sets of ladders for about 200, and I have two sizes of poles, about 100 thats 300 there, before I buy a squeegee.

« **Reply #44 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:59:28 pm »

Quote from: Ewan on March 10, 2009, 08:52:19 pm

Quote from: Stan The Man on March 10, 2009, 08:42:34 pm
Quote from: cozy on March 10, 2009, 08:40:58 pm
OK Ladder, I'm in Germany but just cuz Unger are Guurmuns I don't think it's THAT much cheaper here. I started with 1 kit and 1 spare. A complete Unger dolly ( aplicator I think in UK) complete sqeegy cloths, scraper, dunno what that is in UK.(razor) Basically 2 of everything that fits in a bucket (2 of them). Ladders 2x 12 with stabler. Extention pole 1x3 mtr etc etc. Step ladder 2x3 all together 280 to 300 sheets.Roof rack for the car I had at the time. What can I say. I bought 3 point ladder with parts later but i was talking about start up. Stand by what I've said
i agre £300 max
Correct i spend a lot more now over the course of a year than i ever did trad loads more 2-3 holidays more lol.

What about: Marketing, Sales, Administration, indirect cost,

« **Reply #45 on:** March 10, 2009, 09:04:49 pm »

Quote from: Stan The Man on March 10, 2009, 08:48:23 pm

ive gone off swivel feet,in certain places they were the bees knees,but last week i slid 2 foot down a wall on slippy flag also not good on grass slopes,gravel,decking,will be taking feet off at some point and spiking which not as good on some jobs but is better all round

hi stan

with the clima ones you can flick them round, so that the ladder digs in the slopes

and the gravel, as for the slippery flags a couple of scrims

will do the trick

i will get some stick for that last comment

but go wfp and you will avoid most of these problems,, nag nag

« **Reply #46 on:** March 10, 2009, 09:37:18 pm »

Quote from: Stan The Man on March 10, 2009, 08:32:23 pm

Quote from: kris martin on March 10, 2009, 08:26:40 pm
probably what it is then i get mine from brown's, well used to anyway..

got a ladder from Browns after 3 months rungs loose in stiles,worst ladder i ever had,midland ladder from now

mdland ladders gave me a fantastic deal a couple of weeks ago, titan double 10 with fitted swivel feet free delivery £85 all in, and its a great little ladder

« **Reply #47 on:** March 10, 2009, 09:39:34 pm »

Ewen,I promise I will answer your point, as soon as I have time, even though the point was start up kit,

« **Reply #48 on:** March 10, 2009, 09:40:10 pm »

Quote from: trippy on March 10, 2009, 09:37:18 pm

Quote from: Stan The Man on March 10, 2009, 08:32:23 pm
Quote from: kris martin on March 10, 2009, 08:26:40 pm
probably what it is then i get mine from brown's, well used to anyway..

got a ladder from Browns after 3 months rungs loose in stiles,worst ladder i ever had,midland ladder from now
mdland ladders gave me a fantastic deal a couple of weeks ago, titan double 10 with fitted swivel feet free delivery £85 all in, and its a great little ladder

midland ladders even lol

« **Reply #49 on:** March 10, 2009, 10:16:07 pm »

Quote from: kenaltobelli on March 10, 2009, 04:46:41 pm

i took it as wfp isnt professonal .
thats the thing with wfp when will you get it in your heads some times its a lot quicker
and you can pass on a saving to the custi not be a cowboy just pass on a saving get it

vwry well said ... i could charge more!but i came accross a guy canvassing a street i work on ...he asked how much i charge on average ? £12 i said for this street... ohn iv been quotingn £15 so how can you survive at that price he asked ?

coz i do that one that one that one ... then i do those there , that on e there and then i do these. after that i do this one and then i move on to those ... etc

he gave up and moved on! lol

« **Reply #50 on:** March 10, 2009, 11:02:42 pm »

Stan...
Love the avatar. Truth.
But as much as I love it, I also have to tell you to change it!
Yes, I know that in the grand scheme of things it is tame, but it is still too risque for the forum $:-\$ (regretfully)

Ian

« **Reply #51 on:** March 10, 2009, 11:07:55 pm »

Quote from: Ian_Giles on March 10, 2009, 11:02:42 pm

Stan...
Love the avatar. Truth.
But as much as I love it, I also have to tell you to change it!
Yes, I know that in the grand scheme of things it is tame, but it is still too risque for the forum $:-\$ (regretfully)

Ian

I agree it looks like she's doing a Nazi Salute

« **Reply #52 on:** March 10, 2009, 11:13:59 pm »

Quote from: Ian_Giles on March 10, 2009, 11:02:42 pm

Stan...
Love the avatar. Truth.
But as much as I love it, I also have to tell you to change it!
Yes, I know that in the grand scheme of things it is tame, but it is still too risque for the forum $:-\$ (regretfully)

Ian

yer come on stan i mean my 9 year old son might decide to log into a window cleaning forum

« **Reply #53 on:** March 10, 2009, 11:25:30 pm »

Come on Boss, my mrs is reading this forum most days, and she isn't offended by Stans pic.
He works hard (so he says). Give the guy a break

« **Reply #54 on:** March 11, 2009, 06:01:31 am »

i,m sure she was on one of the cleaning stands yesyerday with same clothes and a yellow hat to match

« **Reply #55 on:** March 11, 2009, 05:11:56 pm »

well £12.00 is not bad for an hours work I would be well happy.

« **Reply #56 on:** March 11, 2009, 05:50:20 pm »

barry i would be happy to £12 i would work all day

« **Reply #57 on:** March 11, 2009, 05:59:34 pm »

yea seems right to me

« **Reply #58 on:** March 11, 2009, 07:03:29 pm »

Stan,

You like my avatar; I know you do.

« **Reply #59 on:** March 11, 2009, 08:45:52 pm »

Quote from: Ewan on March 11, 2009, 06:05:52 pm

The government treat you different and you don’t pay road tax and you’re exempt from having vehicle insurance and every petrol station lets you take as much fuel as and when you need it.

I now actually class vehicle costs as a perk of the job.
In previous jobs (factory work) I still had a vehicle to get to work, still had to pay fuel, servicing, repairs, tax, mot etc etc.
I now offset all costs against tax