[jay moley]

You mention his previous jobs were time watching jobs, paid by the hour to watch time and bog off home once his time was up. You're paying him just above the minimum wage to work at a steady plod along pace, there's your answer, .....no real incentive to step up a few gears and get his performance up and crack on with earning  more with little reward for twice as much or more effort than previous jobs. The youth of today in general are lazy and not motivated.

If you explained how he could earn £15-20  an hour and left him to find his own motivation, if he was money motivated I bet he would put some real effort in. Before window cleaning a couple of my jobs were basic pay and I negotiated performance related pay with my employers and was taking home more than double and tripple most of my friends for the same amount of hours by finding the best methods that benefited me of working, so long as the outcome was in the favour of my employers.

He can earn more on top of the basic hourly rate if we hit numbers so the incentive is there.

[jay moley]

From  what you have posted he's the wrong lad.
From what you have  posted you're the wrong boss too.

There are many good fellas out there, it just takes a good boss to get the best out of them, or at least dramatically improve the odds.

Good luck you will get there eventually if you keep trying and learning.

How am I the wrong boss? Genuine question.

I've been very patient with him, showed him what to do numerous times, never lost my rag or had a go at him. I've been fair to him, he can earn well. Im not sure what else I can do. I'm fairly new at being a boss but I don't think im massively screwing it up. Always looking to improve tho, thats the only reason Im on this forum.

This employing thing isnt easy, I employ 12 staff and Ive made all sorts of mistakes and my attitude has changed dramatically over time as I learnt about  how to employ people.
Your previous posts suggest to me that you are too eager to please, its tough, its all about balance. There have to be rules, sometimes you need to explain why.  You need to be tough when toughness is called for and empathetic  when empathy is needed. Your staff must respect you, you have to earn that respect by your actions and it takes time.  All this is easier if you have the right people to begin with.
Who are the right people? Thats really down to you to work out as you gain experience of people and life, but you have to try a few before you get the right ones. If you know they arent the right person get rid asap and move onto the next one. You will find the right one if you know what personality traits you are looking for AND you treat them right.
I have seen a couple of posts (from others) along the lines of " Its a job any idiot can do. or its just squirting water onto glass" if that your attitude to the people you want then thats what you are going to get (general statement not aimed at you Jay).

Its a complicated subject with many many variables, people want structure and leadership from someone they respect and who respects them. If you respect your employee and arent getting that respect back, get rid. Employing a window cleaner who cant drive wasnt a great move IMO,  but you were in a rush to employ (which has made your situation worse.

I wish you well Jay.

Good post, thanks.

[Smudger]

I don't think £9 is enough - its ok for a trial period

Min Wage is going up in April to £9.50 - bear that in mind for keeping or dumping

Darran

[Stoots]

With minimum wage going up to 9.50 that's best part of 20k for a full timer.

With n.i and pension etc on top it's probably 25k a year to employ someone

Given that vat is 85k is it really worth it ?

May as well just do 60 k on your own and save the hassle.

Obviously different if you want someone put on their own and plan to expand beyond vat .

[NWH]

Pennies are dropping employees hold all the cards

[jay moley]

I don't think £9 is enough - its ok for a trial period

Min Wage is going up in April to £9.50 - bear that in mind for keeping or dumping

Darran

I would up it to the £9.50.

He's only 21. I don't think its bad money when you can earn more based on performance + canvassing.

[jay moley]

With minimum wage going up to 9.50 that's best part of 20k for a full timer.

With n.i and pension etc on top it's probably 25k a year to employ someone

Given that vat is 85k is it really worth it ?

May as well just do 60 k on your own and save the hassle.

Obviously different if you want someone put on their own and plan to expand beyond vat .

When you say 60k you talking about earnings for a one man operation?

[Stoots]

With minimum wage going up to 9.50 that's best part of 20k for a full timer.

With n.i and pension etc on top it's probably 25k a year to employ someone

Given that vat is 85k is it really worth it ?

May as well just do 60 k on your own and save the hassle.

Obviously different if you want someone put on their own and plan to expand beyond vat .

When you say 60k you talking about earnings for a one man operation?

Yep

[Simon Trapani]

With minimum wage going up to 9.50 that's best part of 20k for a full timer.

With n.i and pension etc on top it's probably 25k a year to employ someone

Given that vat is 85k is it really worth it ?

May as well just do 60 k on your own and save the hassle.

Obviously different if you want someone put on their own and plan to expand beyond vat .

On that wage Employers NI would be covered by the government for one,  possibly two employees. Government  give you the first £4000 or so a year.

Employees Tax & NI would come out of employees gross wages so no loss there either.

On around 20k a year, if the employee opted into the pension scheme, it would cost you around £40-£45 a month.

So I would say it is worth it. Works for me anyway.

[Simon Trapani]

Have now read entire thread. Zzz.

The fact he can’t drive at 21 tells me everything about him.

[Stoots]

With minimum wage going up to 9.50 that's best part of 20k for a full timer.

With n.i and pension etc on top it's probably 25k a year to employ someone

Given that vat is 85k is it really worth it ?

May as well just do 60 k on your own and save the hassle.

Obviously different if you want someone put on their own and plan to expand beyond vat .

On that wage Employers NI would be covered by the government for one,  possibly two employees. Government  give you the first £4000 or so a year.

Employees Tax & NI would come out of employees gross wages so no loss there either.

On around 20k a year, if the employee opted into the pension scheme, it would cost you around £40-£45 a month.

So I would say it is worth it. Works for me anyway.

I've always paid employers ni at 13.8% I have to pay it on my own salary as a director lol

Still costs aren't really worth it unless they are out in their own. There the extra fuel, water and equipment costs etc as well as paying them for bad weather days.

I think if I was to employ again I would try to do it in 3 days a week with a pert timer. 600 a day probably have to work later though 

[Smudger]

I don't think £9 is enough - its ok for a trial period

Min Wage is going up in April to £9.50 - bear that in mind for keeping or dumping

Darran

I would up it to the £9.50.

He's only 21. I don't think its bad money when you can earn more based on performance + canvassing.

you want him to clean and canvass all for min wage - there's the problem - if you expect him to canvas and get you work then you should be paying more - I think your asking a lot for that amount per hour

Darran

[jay moley]

I don't think £9 is enough - its ok for a trial period

Min Wage is going up in April to £9.50 - bear that in mind for keeping or dumping

Darran

I would up it to the £9.50.

He's only 21. I don't think its bad money when you can earn more based on performance + canvassing.

you want him to clean and canvass all for min wage - there's the problem - if you expect him to canvas and get you work then you should be paying more - I think your asking a lot for that amount per hour

Darran

I am paying him more on top off his minimum wage if we do more work which should easily be possible each day. He also gets paid 50% of the first clean for any job he canvasses.

[Smudger]

Wow! - so may have to canvas a few hours to get a customer and earn a whole £10 extra!

I would if I were you just put yourself in his shoes and do you really think what your offering is fair?

I don't get any of my staff to canvas it's totally different mind set and skills to cleaning - if you get someone who is willing to do both/good at both you need to be paying nearly double your current level and certainly for canvas work they get 100% of first clean minimum and more likely the first 2 with 50% of the third

Darran

[Mark Dee]

Taking on staff should be part of a long term strategy if your intention is to grow your business. From my own experience every time I took on a staff member my nett earnings fell. That's just a cost of expansion, but as the business grows and  revenues increase then that new member of staff pays for themselves.

Dont expect to take on staff and have them pay for themselves within a week or two, it takes time. As your business gains momentum then the time it takes gets shorter. Your 2nd member of staff should pay back slightly quicker.

Jay you have unrealistic expectations at the moment, think more long term, if your finances cant stand it then you have taken on staff without enough cash reserves. or growing customer base.   Its not easy this employing and expansion malarkey